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VERBOS ELECTRONICS
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules  
Author VERBOS ELECTRONICS
xart
Anyone wanna buy my buchla? hmmm.....






http://www.analoghaven.com/verboselectronics/


thumbs up
the bad producer
Wowo, lovely looking and great stuff - might tempt me back to euro!
xart
http://www.verboselectronics.com/



thumbs up
exper
Oh really.

Is verbos on here? Love to know more about this. 292 esque module on its way???
CJ Miller
Somebody's been busy!

I like the way there was no buzz about this, and then they're suddenly announced and in stock at AH now.
brickman
However they sound , they sure look pretty .
phutureboy
stupidly sexy ! jawdrop

I have to admit this has been a daydream for a long time...
modintx
Look amazing - hopefully they will be up on modulargrid.net shortly so we can all have virtual fun racking them thumbs up
xart
exper wrote:
Oh really.

Is verbos on here?



Oh please.

Every asshole from Tortoise to AFX to Ke$ha is on here. (they are just too cool to post - but have no problem reading your reviews, watching your youtube module video's and strealing your patch ideas.) thumbs up
modintx
101 HP for all 5 modules - wonder how deep they are for possible skiff placement.

Thanks for the correction Fractaltctrl, I missed one completely d'oh! - 131HP it is.
phutureboy
Would any Buchla specialist care to tell us to which Buchla module each of these correspond to ? And ideally with which added or substracted features ?
Milanm
Holy shit balls!

Those are beautiful. If they sound half as good as they look im considering selling a bunch of stuff and putting this in a 104hp skiff.

UK distribution?
exper
Given his buchla tech pedigree, I'd definitely trust verbos to get the complex osc/ 259 sound right. Very, very intriguing. Love to hear more demos.

Nice design too overall, but I could do without the some of the wide black bars.

Wonder if a full west coast voice is planned. Random source, function generator,
toothless_wonder
Haha , Mark is on it !!!!! very interested indeed , looking to hear them , but you know they rock !
l e b e r
holy bananas they look good... anyone know what the harmonic oscillator sounds like? that one's got my attention...
qu.one
wasn't sure exactly when these were dropping - but finally glad to see what they look like!!!! and they look awesome.
xart
toothless_wonder wrote:
but you know they rock !



I hope he is using a professional building company. Verbos BUCHLA FORMAT modules are all over the place with sloppy build quality...

I do have to say you euro guys are in for a real treat when your hear the Verbos Harmonic Oscillator thumbs up
oblis
Wow, looks great...looking forward to hearing these.
xart
l e b e r wrote:
holy bananas they look good... anyone know what the harmonic oscillator sounds like? that one's got my attention...


google and watch yootube video of it (in buchla format)....
I had a chance to hear one in person a few months ago and it was pretty fukcing great!
mateo
phutureboy wrote:
Would any Buchla specialist care to tell us to which Buchla module each of these correspond to ? And ideally with which added or substracted features ?


The osc looks like a simplified 259 (no PLL), the rest seem more buchla inspired than direct copies of modules
roglok
classy panel design!
mystico
very happy with this development
3001
Looks really nice!! thumbs up

I'm a little dissapointed I left euro to go Buchla now! ha hihi
navyshirt
Looks like I'm going to have spend more money now.. oops
Nuuj
Those knobs me me think of boobs.
That Harmonic oscillator is tempting...
CF3
Big fan of Mark's music and have always wanted some of his Buchla format modules. This is pretty amazing. Will definitely have to start that new case now.
mystico
Hmm what can I sell....Who wants to buy an mks80?
mystico
roglok wrote:
classy panel design!


And fucking nice video too!
Paranormal Patroler
Amazing! I just found out. w00t
Paranormal Patroler
http://www.verboselectronics.com/modules/
acidbob
WUPWUPWUPWUPWUPWUPWUPWUPWUPWUP hyper
goiks
wow. couldn't resist, never have i found out about something and purchased it so quickly (harmonic osc and multistage). time to put some other stuff up for sale.
phutureboy
mateo wrote:
The osc looks like a simplified 259 (no PLL), the rest seem more buchla inspired than direct copies of modules


Merci ! May I ask what's PLL ?
Paranormal Patroler
phutureboy wrote:
mateo wrote:
The osc looks like a simplified 259 (no PLL), the rest seem more buchla inspired than direct copies of modules


Merci ! May I ask what's PLL ?


Phase Locked Loop. It's quite simple and yet complex. In module format you can check the manual of the Doepfer a-196, it'll help you get what a PLL does.
VanEck
modintx wrote:
101 HP for all 5 modules - wonder how deep they are for possible skiff placement.


From the website:

Verbos Electronics modules are made from the highest quality materials and are designed from the outside in. The panel design is clean, the knobs beautiful, the feel solid, and they are all thin enough fit in a "skiff".
Lama
This looks fantastic! w00t

l e b e r wrote:
holy bananas they look good... anyone know what the harmonic oscillator sounds like? that one's got my attention...


I assume it´s pretty identical to the 262v and if it is, it sounds f*cking great!
modintx
....and they are up on ModularGrid.net - off for some happy planning sessions w00t
Paranormal Patroler
Really curious to see them in action. Vids vids vids! The Sequencer and oscillator look so tempting.
narwhal
pretty. but what does any of it sound like?
phutureboy
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Phase Locked Loop. It's quite simple and yet complex. In module format you can check the manual of the Doepfer a-196, it'll help you get what a PLL does.

Thanks, I did check the A-196 videos in the past but thought the sweet spot was too narrow to my taste. Maybe it sounds more interesting in the Buchla world...
patmcm
Incredibly excited to hear these in action - Mark gets the Buchla philosophy (at times almost more than BEMI it seems) and taking what he's learned in all his deconstruction of classic Buchla modules and using that as an inspiration for this fresh batch of Eurorack...

woah
z3r01
That Voltage Multistage! Wow!
Kent
xart wrote:
toothless_wonder wrote:
but you know they rock !



I hope he is using a professional building company. Verbos BUCHLA FORMAT modules are all over the place with sloppy build quality...

I do have to say you euro guys are in for a real treat when your hear the Verbos Harmonic Oscillator thumbs up


Fuck me running… the Harmonic Oscillator comes it at approximately 1/3rd the price of the Buchla 200 format one. I understand the economics, but grr…

Nice lookin' modules though.
anselmi
I´d love to see his 258v in euro...amazing deep sound...full of character

I like it more than a 259-ish oscillator
Soundifferent
Very, very nice! applause

2014 looks to be a very good year for euro...

Euro "Standard" ftl
Buchla 222e
Drunken Homer Simpson
gliiitches
Soundifferent wrote:
2014 looks to be a very good year for Euro "Standard" ftl


Although not for my credit card... Or my marriage lol
Fractaltctrl
modintx wrote:
101 HP for all 5 modules - wonder how deep they are for possible skiff placement.


131hp actually, but it would have been nice if they were 101 cause then they would all fit in my skiff...
qu.one
Kent wrote:
Fuck me running… the Harmonic Oscillator comes it at approximately 1/3rd the price of the Buchla 200 format one. I understand the economics, but grr…


they seem to be a drop different hough —  no square and 2 less sine outs.
Soundifferent
gliiitches wrote:
Soundifferent wrote:
2014 looks to be a very good year for Euro "Standard" ftl


Although not for my credit card... Or my marriage lol


"But, honey, I swear this is really the last module I need!" Frying Pan Bash!
bonusplays
I had heard about this through "the grapevine" a month ago but was too ignorant to say anything definitive. Glad I waited for them to come out with an announce and some solid pictures and descriptions first.

Mark's Buchla blog is one of the most informative sources of info out there on that synthesizer system and the Harmonic Oscillator in the 4U format was one of the more amazing oscillators I've ever tried. So this is super exciting to say the least.

Good luck, Mark!
abendrot
Ah Eurorack, a module a day keeps the doctor away.
Now this will be a new hype again, for lets say two
weeks and than there will be something new on the
horizon. hihi
microfauna
abendrot wrote:
Ah Eurorack, a module a day keeps the doctor away.
Now this will be a new hype again, for lets say two
weeks and than there will be something new on the
horizon. hihi


There are elements of some of the modules which we already have In Euro, but a couple of them bring something completely new (ie harmonic VCO and the multistage) so I think excitement is justified in some respects.
pulse_divider
These seem really cool. The higher-end mega-module caste is getting to be a crowded market in the euro world these days. They all seem really useful and interesting.
The OCD critical dick in me bristles at the hex nuts on the black or red background, they look really funny all askew.
ws9848
Kent wrote:
xart wrote:
toothless_wonder wrote:
but you know they rock !



I hope he is using a professional building company. Verbos BUCHLA FORMAT modules are all over the place with sloppy build quality...

I do have to say you euro guys are in for a real treat when your hear the Verbos Harmonic Oscillator thumbs up


Fuck me running… the Harmonic Oscillator comes it at approximately 1/3rd the price of the Buchla 200 format one. I understand the economics, but grr…

Nice lookin' modules though.


NO KIDDING!!!!
radiokoala
anselmi wrote:
I´d love to see his 258v in euro...amazing deep sound...full of character

I like it more than a 259-ish oscillator

There are a few, look into J3RK 258J. I'm not sure what revision of 258 it is based on, but in my opinion it's sonically 95% the same thing as my Sputnik 258v.*

[/size=9]* too euro module, officially Sputnik Dual Waveform Generator... (remark for people who've not heard of it. thumbs up)[/size]
CJ Miller
pulse_divider wrote:
The OCD critical dick in me bristles at the hex nuts on the black or red background, they look really funny all askew.


Feel free to pressure the makers of Euro hardware to manufacture things to tighter tolerances!
CF3
radiokoala wrote:
anselmi wrote:
I´d love to see his 258v in euro...amazing deep sound...full of character

I like it more than a 259-ish oscillator

There are a few, look into J3RK 258J. I'm not sure what revision of 258 it is based on, but in my opinion it's sonically 95% the same thing as my Sputnik 258v.*

[/size=9]* too euro module, officially Sputnik Dual Waveform Generator... (remark for people who've not heard of it. thumbs up)[/size]


Plan B/SubCon M15 x2
consumed
the euro black hole just got bigger and blacker.
joey
well I took the plunge on the harmonic oscillator...
echoplex
First Buchla-madness goin' on
http://modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/71055 Dead Banana nanners d'oh!
negativspace
CJ Miller wrote:
pulse_divider wrote:
The OCD critical dick in me bristles at the hex nuts on the black or red background, they look really funny all askew.


Feel free to pressure the makers of Euro hardware to manufacture things to tighter tolerances!


Not much can be done about that, to a certain extent the hex nuts bottom out at whatever angle they bottom out at. You can fiddle with them if you want, and it helps a bit, but you'll never get a whole module's worth to line up perfectly.

(That's why I refuse to use hex nuts, ever. I also hate the haphazard look.)

* This is a general statement about hex nuts, has nothing to do with Mark's modules. They look fantastic!
johnchantler
these look incredible. bravo.

applause
RyanDais
can't wait to try these out...need a 2nd case first!
eXode
mateo wrote:
phutureboy wrote:
Would any Buchla specialist care to tell us to which Buchla module each of these correspond to ? And ideally with which added or substracted features ?


The osc looks like a simplified 259 (no PLL), the rest seem more buchla inspired than direct copies of modules


Can we please put the PLL mythos to bed once and for all?

There is NO PLL in the Buchla 259!!! This is a common misconception. There is just Phase Lock, which is another word for SYNC, nothing more and nothing less.

See this high res image of original 259 panel for reference.
lightworks
wow, this look beautiful applause
ritchiedrums
A complete Buchla-ish Voice for under $3k!!!! woah

Now let's see what BEMI has planned lol

NICE!!! Guinness ftw!
transistor logic
pure class
CJ Miller
negativspace wrote:
Not much can be done about that, to a certain extent the hex nuts bottom out at whatever angle they bottom out at. You can fiddle with them if you want, and it helps a bit, but you'll never get a whole module's worth to line up perfectly.


But this is true of round nuts also! Their roundness only masks the problem instead if fixing it. hihi

eXode wrote:
Can we please put the PLL mythos to bed once and for all?

There is NO PLL in the Buchla 259!!! This is a common misconception. There is just Phase Lock, which is another word for SYNC, nothing more and nothing less.


So this is why? I had wondered for years why people said there was a PLL when I'd never seen one in the schematics. I didn't even think of studying the panel! One could use a 232, if it was handy.
opsysbug
joey wrote:
well I took the plunge on the harmonic oscillator...


Yes yes. Me too thumbs up
NS4W
These look fabulous!
Nelson Baboon
sigh - ordered the harmonic oscillator and that stage sequencer thing with the last of my bonus money. Should arrive in 2-3 days.
thesnow
anyone if that slick black case is also available?
renzo
thesnow wrote:
anyone if that slick black case is also available?


why don't you ask Mark?

or ask Shawn over @ analoguehaven
qu.one
i think those cases are https://www.memeantenna.com/store/mll6c84k:-6u-84hp-black-eurorack-cas e/dp/21343
Funky40
i´m interested in the 4pole filter, is there any Verbos/buchla equivalent ? demos ?
my blind surch was fruitless
adolfgottmann
Will verbos be distributed in europe?
adamon
oh jeeze... this is just stupid crazy good! nanners It's peanut butter jelly time! Rockin' Banana!

So excited about this!

The stars are aligning on euro this year... screaming goo yo SlayerBadger!
Mono Recalcitrante
fuck, is there no hope to settle down in this eurocrack shit

Dead Banana
an_onion
definitely GASing over that harmonic oscillator...
djthopa
For once im going to hold my horses.

Im i getting sick? Dead Banana
Count Edlington
The Harmonic oscillator is a massive addition, it's the one thing that didn't exist in euro before and I've always been envious of the Buchla guys with the 262v. Not any more SlayerBadger!
What I really want is a euro 257v, of course it's not as exciting as a 262v but would take care of all my cv woes.
ddoyen
Kits? Pllleeeeeeease kits!
chrisso
I have a couple of Mark's Buchla format modules and wouldn't hesitate to purchase Euro format modules. I probably will once the initial feeding frenzy dies down.
J3RK
eXode wrote:
mateo wrote:
phutureboy wrote:
Would any Buchla specialist care to tell us to which Buchla module each of these correspond to ? And ideally with which added or substracted features ?


The osc looks like a simplified 259 (no PLL), the rest seem more buchla inspired than direct copies of modules


Can we please put the PLL mythos to bed once and for all?

There is NO PLL in the Buchla 259!!! This is a common misconception. There is just Phase Lock, which is another word for SYNC, nothing more and nothing less.

See this high res image of original 259 panel for reference.


There are different types of sync, and they don't necessarily lock phases. Are you going by just the panel, or do you know about the inner workings of the VCO? I ask this out of interest (not as an argument necessarily) as I implemented PLL in my own complex VCO. Also the Kilpatrick complex VCO also has Sync AND PLL modes. Just a point of interest for me. w00t

A PLL is actually a very simple way to lock the frequency relationships between two VCOs, though it does have some limitations. It gets really interesting when you lock them at varying intervals. Anyway, I've always wondered how the lock function was handled on the 259. I have the schematics, but haven't looked over them in quite some time. I'll have to dig them up and see.

And these modules look great!

Edit: I believe you're correct. Thinking about it a bit more... There would be little point in using a PLL without a divider, which there is obviously no control for on a 259 panel. Interesting.
freeyerheel
all hail mr verbos! i just about shat myself seeing this complete line of modules in stock at AH, gorgeous design, some discrete circuits inspired by the old but shiny and new. ill be saving up for complete system of verbos only! what can i say im floored! i also love how the black looks like mini moog vinyl leather with that sorta textured powder coat? the layouts seem well thought out and to me they look like they will pretty much function as a cloned buchla 200 with a few more bells and whistles, and no need for bananas. im gidy and extremely happy right now this has pretty much made my month, year whatever.....
revmutt
Good for Verbos on this shit.
yinsen
Is the elby doubledeka a similar concept to the harmonic oscillator?
clusterchord
fantastic design,, i can see my money flying away already.. want that harmonic oscillator.. we're not worthy and the HP+LP..




i wonder how usable would multistage be as classic east coastish (960) type sequencer,,, and is it possible (with addition of a switch controller) to make it drive 1x16 instead of 2x8 ?



did anyone catch what are the dB/Oct slopes of both filters modules, respectively?

couldnt find the info, must have overlooked it somewhere... both the HP+LP combo,,, and the amplitude & tone controller (basically a LPG with separate controls and CV for filter and VCA, if i got that right)..
Dcramer
love
Big panels, red knobs,
blinosynth
both oscillators and the voltage multistage are we're not worthy
i n e e d m o n e y
mystico
clusterchord wrote:
did anyone catch what are the dB/Oct slopes of both filters modules, respectively?


4Pole = 24db/oct
amnesia
Glad to see these in Euro but I must be the only one who isnt impressed with the look of these.

Thank the uniiverse for Greyscale.
drumsofd00m
In case some people didn't get it, the Voltage Multistage is the little brother of the 248 "MARF". *Mark* is the "MARF Wrangler" ;)
megaohm
CJ Miller wrote:

I like the way there was no buzz about this, and then they're suddenly announced and in stock at AH now.


So do I.
Shows class.

Great modules, too!
we're not worthy
realshafer
Can't wait to hear how these sound!
clusterchord
mystico wrote:
clusterchord wrote:
did anyone catch what are the dB/Oct slopes of both filters modules, respectively?


4Pole = 24db/oct


awesome , 4-pole highpass is a rare affair. always wanted one. can't wait for some demos of these beauties..
ignatius
harmonic oscillator
voltage multistage


It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners It's motherfucking bacon yo

who wants to buy a well used kidney?
JJCarr
been dreaming of a verbos harmonic oscillator for a long time, now it'll fit right into my euro system. HOT DAMN.
Guinness ftw! Guinness ftw! Guinness ftw! w00t w00t
Nuuj
Cool to see the anti-envelope finally make it to market.
Oh wait...
drumsofd00m
Nuuj wrote:
Cool to see the anti-envelope finally make it to market.
Oh wait...


If this was the Anti-Envelope then Don Buchla invented it in the 70s and called it Multiple Arbitrary Function Generator. This is a scaled-down version of the MARF more than anything else, as far as I could see from a quick look.
moogboy
My Buchlust ebbs and flows with time. And now these Verbos modules appear to have laid waste to quite a bit of those feelings. Even though they aren't the same and they never will be, as someone who is more interested in concepts and cool ideas than having the exact specific piece of gear, this is wonderful.

Can you imagine what the response would be if Verbos/BEMI/Roman came out with a 208 style module in euro?
jcn7
moogboy wrote:


Can you imagine what the response would be if Verbos/BEMI/Roman came out with a 208 style module in euro?



Yes! I've been wondering if this will become a reality...it would be super cool!
onthelees
Voltage Multistage is one of my "Dream" Modules - so glad someone actually built it (and put in some features I didn't think of).
ignatius
Nuuj wrote:
Cool to see the anti-envelope finally make it to market.
Oh wait...


with slew per step applause

i still want an anti envelope.
h4ndcrafted
I really hope there will be distribution in Europe ...pretty ploxing
contrasttx
The harmonic oscillator and voltage multistage both look fantastic.

All this NAMM/surrounding stuff is gonna kill me.
madcap
amnesia wrote:
Glad to see these in Euro but I must be the only one who isnt impressed with the look of these.

Thank the uniiverse for Greyscale.



It's not my fav look either..

I look forward to demos of the filters most of all.
jcn7
Well, I just broke down and tapped into my "rainy day fund"...I just ordered 3 Verbos modules:

1) harmonic oscillator
2) voltage multistage
3) amplitude & tone controller

It will be a nice start for an all Verbos system. thumbs up
mateo
eXode wrote:
mateo wrote:
phutureboy wrote:
Would any Buchla specialist care to tell us to which Buchla module each of these correspond to ? And ideally with which added or substracted features ?


The osc looks like a simplified 259 (no PLL), the rest seem more buchla inspired than direct copies of modules


Can we please put the PLL mythos to bed once and for all?

There is NO PLL in the Buchla 259!!! This is a common misconception. There is just Phase Lock, which is another word for SYNC, nothing more and nothing less.

See this high res image of original 259 panel for reference.



Interesting, thanks for the clarification. Is the LOCK mode on the DPO just Phase Lock as well?
mudlogger
If you want classic analog Buchla (not 200e) in Euro - this is it.

The guy is a renowned Buchla tech and restores old modules.

No hesitation buying this. I'm saying this as a Buchla and Euro owner.

I have a 254v and a 258v.
itege
Am I correct in understanding that the harmonic oscillator can act as an 8 partial additive oscillator?
infradead
That multistage... damn
microfauna
itege wrote:
Am I correct in understanding that the harmonic oscillator can act as an 8 partial additive oscillator?


That's right. Malekko JAG would be an interesting addition to control the partials balance in addition to the onboard tilt, centre etc
Beermaster
Count Edlington wrote:
The Harmonic oscillator is a massive addition, it's the one thing that didn't exist in euro before and I've always been envious of the Buchla guys with the 262v. Not any more SlayerBadger!
What I really want is a euro 257v, of course it's not as exciting as a 262v but would take care of all my cv woes.


Actually Analogue systems released their Polyphonic Harmonic Generator in Euro back in 2002 - this has control over 32 harmonics with 16 CV controlled . . just saying.

Love the Verbos stuff . . What can I sell ?!
Willis3000
Please consider us Europeans and appoint a distributor closer to us smile
eXode
mateo wrote:
Interesting, thanks for the clarification. Is the LOCK mode on the DPO just Phase Lock as well?


Yes, basically it's a form of softsync that only locks the phase when you are close to a whole interval, if I remember correctly. I think this is how the "weak" sync mode worked on the Moog 921B VCO as well, fwiw.
arnoux
Willis3000 wrote:
Please consider us Europeans and appoint a distributor closer to us smile


I'll drop a line to Schneider's pointing to this thread, if there's interst from buyers it should easely happens..
Stinktier86
Beermaster wrote:


Actually Analogue systems released their Polyphonic Harmonic Generator in Euro back in 2002 - this has control over 32 harmonics with 16 CV controlled . . just saying.



And its so incredibly amazing from the demos i've heard - too bad i won't afford it + the expander the next couple of years. waah
microfauna
Stinktier86 wrote:
Beermaster wrote:


Actually Analogue systems released their Polyphonic Harmonic Generator in Euro back in 2002 - this has control over 32 harmonics with 16 CV controlled . . just saying.



And its so incredibly amazing from the demos i've heard - too bad i won't afford it + the expander the next couple of years. waah


Not denying the capabilities of the RS370/375 combo, but the global modulation of harmonics (Harmonic Scan, Spectral Tilt) on the Verbos makes a big difference for practical control.
kao:be.
who is going to make a 296 for EURO? hihi
oopfoo
After swearing I was off buying Eurorack for a few months, this.

Yeah...I bought all five.
exper
kao:be. wrote:
who is going to make a 296 for EURO? hihi


BEMI!

I'm wondering if the day will come that we will indeed see Buchla modules in euro after all. Maybe not 'e' but regular 200 series. Patch storage would be an issue without Busboards after all.

I wouldn't care about a 261 or 259 anyway, as I'm quite happy with my oscillators as they are, but a 292, 266, and I'd be all over it. I already have my (better than) 281 in the Quadra...
jnlkrt
exper wrote:
Oh really.

Is verbos on here? Love to know more about this. 292 esque module on its way???


the amplitude & tone controller looks like his take on the timbral gate idea.
exper
jnlkrt wrote:
exper wrote:
Oh really.

Is verbos on here? Love to know more about this. 292 esque module on its way???


the amplitude & tone controller looks like his take on the timbral gate idea.


Thanks, I did notice that later on the AH description. The only issues with that being, its quite large and single channel. Obviously a lot more control and possibility with it though. I'd have to hear examples of it, as far as the natural vactrol decay, the slope of the cutoff (LPGs should only be 6db I believe), etc.

I'd like about 4 channels in my system, mixed preferably. I currently have a Dual Borg and an Optomix, but with the Opto, channel 1 has a really short decay, and I'm not too jazzed about the voltage spikes in the outputs, the DB is nice as a LPG, but I'm afraid, the filter aspect doesn't do much for me. So, it is a bit of a wasted space and function for me. I had a qmmg, that perhaps I should have kept, but again, never used the filters much, and would like something a little cleaner.

Anyway, back on topic, really interested to hear demos of this stuff. The Complex osc looks interesting, but I would've liked an option for a sine wave from the mod osc as well. Surprised that was omitted. The Sequencer one is quite interesting as well. Very flexible.
milkshake
exper wrote:
kao:be. wrote:
who is going to make a 296 for EURO? hihi


BEMI!

I'm wondering if the day will come that we will indeed see Buchla modules in euro after all. Maybe not 'e' but regular 200 series. Patch storage would be an issue without Busboards after all.

I wouldn't care about a 261 or 259 anyway, as I'm quite happy with my oscillators as they are, but a 292, 266, and I'd be all over it. I already have my (better than) 281 in the Quadra...


292= QMMG
266= A-149
exper
milkshake wrote:

292= QMMG
266= A-149



But, not entirely, the QMMG was very colored, and easily overdriven. A clean alternative would be nice. Also one that's available! hihi

As for the A-149, that was one of my least favorite of the euro random sources. The Doepfer implementation had an excessive amount of "repeatability" to it. I noticed a default staircase pattern to it that became annoying. Both the vintage 266 (which I think is all or mostly analog) and the 266e and the output seems more musical but not "digital" and just random patterns. I guess the closest to this was the Plan B heisenberg. That had a nice output. Also, A-149 is only half of a 266.
kao:be.
exper wrote:
kao:be. wrote:
who is going to make a 296 for EURO? hihi


BEMI!

I'm wondering if the day will come that we will indeed see Buchla modules in euro after all. Maybe not 'e' but regular 200 series. Patch storage would be an issue without Busboards after all.

I wouldn't care about a 261 or 259 anyway, as I'm quite happy with my oscillators as they are, but a 292, 266, and I'd be all over it. I already have my (better than) 281 in the Quadra...


It seems I'm not very up to date... are there rumors/speculations about Buchla is going to enter the EURO market?
eole
crazy times for modular-heads MY ASS IS BLEEDING MY ASS IS BLEEDING MY ASS IS BLEEDING
Morley
Only Eurorack stuff that tempts me. Might even order!
anselmi
Stinktier86 wrote:
And its so incredibly amazing from the demos i've heard


demos of the originals (buchla format) or the euro ones?
exper
kao:be. wrote:
exper wrote:
kao:be. wrote:
who is going to make a 296 for EURO? hihi


BEMI!

I'm wondering if the day will come that we will indeed see Buchla modules in euro after all. Maybe not 'e' but regular 200 series. Patch storage would be an issue without Busboards after all.

I wouldn't care about a 261 or 259 anyway, as I'm quite happy with my oscillators as they are, but a 292, 266, and I'd be all over it. I already have my (better than) 281 in the Quadra...


It seems I'm not very up to date... are there rumors/speculations about Buchla is going to enter the EURO market?


No, just wishing. I think I've been dreaming of that since I bought euro in the beginning.
ispeakhopelandic
exper wrote:
milkshake wrote:

292= QMMG
266= A-149



But, not entirely, the QMMG was very colored, and easily overdriven. A clean alternative would be nice. Also one that's available! hihi

As for the A-149, that was one of my least favorite of the euro random sources. The Doepfer implementation had an excessive amount of "repeatability" to it. I noticed a default staircase pattern to it that became annoying. Both the vintage 266 (which I think is all or mostly analog) and the 266e and the output seems more musical but not "digital" and just random patterns. I guess the closest to this was the Plan B heisenberg. That had a nice output. Also, A-149 is only half of a 266.


266 repetition is noticeable at audio rates
LoveBot
WANT (though it is the Buchla verson)

plogbidman
Could anyone explain the way of using a Voltage Multistage ? seriously, i just don't get it
Funky40
LoveBot wrote:
WANT (though it is the Buchla verson)


that kind of sequenze can easiliy be donne with a FMVDO, just saying.
cheaper, smaller, not lacking anything soundwise compared to this demo, with easiest access when a bit familiar with the module
microfauna
Funky40 wrote:
LoveBot wrote:
WANT (though it is the Buchla verson)


that kind of sequenze can easiliy be donne with a FMVDO, just saying.
cheaper, smaller, not lacking anything soundwise compared to this demo, with easiest access when a bit familiar with the module


What are elements of the patch that you are referring to that you think the FMVDO can do?
Stinktier86
microfauna wrote:
Funky40 wrote:

that kind of sequenze can easiliy be donne with a FMVDO, just saying.
cheaper, smaller, not lacking anything soundwise compared to this demo, with easiest access when a bit familiar with the module


What are elements of the patch that you are referring to that you think the FMVDO can do?


Scanning the partials when the band is so narrow only one partial at a time can be heard is equivalent with simply controlling the pitch of any sine/sinoid. Hence, FMVDO and other oscillators can do this, too
Stinktier86
anselmi wrote:
Stinktier86 wrote:
And its so incredibly amazing from the demos i've heard


demos of the originals (buchla format) or the euro ones?


Neither... sorry for being unclear, i was refering to the analogue systems additive synth modules.
LoveBot
Funky40 wrote:
LoveBot wrote:
WANT (though it is the Buchla verson)


that kind of sequenze can easiliy be donne with a FMVDO, just saying.
cheaper, smaller, not lacking anything soundwise compared to this demo, with easiest access when a bit familiar with the module


I wasn't aware the FMVDO could do the same- that's something to consider. Nevertheless, the Verbos is very hands on and begs to be played like a real instrument, which is one thing missing in a significant number of Euro designs imo.
analogPedagog
plogbidman wrote:
Could anyone explain the way of using a Voltage Multistage ? seriously, i just don't get it


From what I gather, it is very similar to a sequencer with a linear glide control. The differences seem to be that the voltage level of the previous stage can be held if the slider is switched off. There are sustain CV controls as well. Then there is a the latching ability to make it act like a variable quantizer.

Simply put - it outputs a versatile user controlled voltage.

I would use it as described in the info - sequencer, multistage envelopes/LFOs etc.
I would imagine you could also use this to draw interesting audio waveforms using a high clock rate.
microfauna
Stinktier86 wrote:
microfauna wrote:
Funky40 wrote:

that kind of sequenze can easiliy be donne with a FMVDO, just saying.
cheaper, smaller, not lacking anything soundwise compared to this demo, with easiest access when a bit familiar with the module


What are elements of the patch that you are referring to that you think the FMVDO can do?


Scanning the partials when the band is so narrow only one partial at a time can be heard is equivalent with simply controlling the pitch of any sine/sinoid. Hence, FMVDO and other oscillators can do this, too


You would have to say that is just one very specific capability of the Harmonic VCO represented in the video. Obviously there is the capability of balancing the level of the harmonics and modulating that balance which FMVDO can't do (or any other Euro VCO apart from RS370).
theflyingfridge
plogbidman wrote:
Could anyone explain the way of using a Voltage Multistage ? seriously, i just don't get it


I'm also curious about this as I have a harder time wrapping my head around this module than most. As a side note, this stuff looks great. I wonder how long it will be before he releases a few other modules. I can totally see the draw for a complete buchla system like this!

Sadly I just filled my case...

EDIT: Thanks for the explaination above. It may be due to my lack of in depth understanding of using voltages this way, but could someone explain how you would shape LFO's and/or Envelopes with it?
Count Edlington
theflyingfridge wrote:
plogbidman wrote:
Could anyone explain the way of using a Voltage Multistage ? seriously, i just don't get it


I'm also curious about this as I have a harder time wrapping my head around this module than most. As a side note, this stuff looks great. I wonder how long it will be before he releases a few other modules. I can totally see the draw for a complete buchla system like this!

Sadly I just filled my case...


Obviously without using it I can only speculate about how it functions, but if I understand it correctly then it's basically a sequencer but very flexible check out the Buchla MARF.
I was just thinking of a patch where the sequencer would be stepping through it's sequence and then using one of the gates patched into the strobe input, with a cycling lfo (or any CV) going into the CV in, would give you some weird resets and depending on how cyclic the CV in was, could give you some nested loop like function, especially if several gate outs were combined.
theflyingfridge
Count Edlington wrote:
theflyingfridge wrote:
plogbidman wrote:
Could anyone explain the way of using a Voltage Multistage ? seriously, i just don't get it


I'm also curious about this as I have a harder time wrapping my head around this module than most. As a side note, this stuff looks great. I wonder how long it will be before he releases a few other modules. I can totally see the draw for a complete buchla system like this!

Sadly I just filled my case...


Obviously without using it I can only speculate about how it functions, but if I understand it correctly then it's basically a sequencer but very flexible check out the Buchla MARF.
I was just thinking of a patch where the sequencer would be stepping through it's sequence and then using one of the gates patched into the strobe input, with a cycling lfo (or any CV) going into the CV in, would give you some weird resets and depending on how cyclic the CV in was, could give you some nested loop like function, especially if several gate outs were combined.


Woah! In reading a little more, this thing looks crazy. I would definitely want two of them in a system like this though, as I'm assuming any of those functions would be dependent on the "time" of the sequence, correct?
Funky40
microfauna wrote:
Funky40 wrote:
LoveBot wrote:
WANT (though it is the Buchla verson)


that kind of sequenze can easiliy be donne with a FMVDO, just saying.
cheaper, smaller, not lacking anything soundwise compared to this demo, with easiest access when a bit familiar with the module


What are elements of the patch that you are referring to that you think the FMVDO can do?

As i hear the music: the whole. The change in harmonic content to say so. Timbres

to me its harmonic content, there are many ways to get harmonics that might sound on paper different, in real world not much.
As soon you go percussive, many many subtle differences in sound become irrelevant ......IMHO.
....but then, i hear music by "feel", not by mind


edit:
microfauna wrote:
Obviously there is the capability of balancing the level of the harmonics and modulating that balance which FMVDO can't do (or any other Euro VCO apart from RS370).

the question is if it makes so much difference in real world music.
could be a point for pads and drones........for percussives less so, imo
Stinktier86
microfauna wrote:
Stinktier86 wrote:
microfauna wrote:
Funky40 wrote:

that kind of sequenze can easiliy be donne with a FMVDO, just saying.
cheaper, smaller, not lacking anything soundwise compared to this demo, with easiest access when a bit familiar with the module


What are elements of the patch that you are referring to that you think the FMVDO can do?


Scanning the partials when the band is so narrow only one partial at a time can be heard is equivalent with simply controlling the pitch of any sine/sinoid. Hence, FMVDO and other oscillators can do this, too


You would have to say that is just one very specific capability of the Harmonic VCO represented in the video. Obviously there is the capability of balancing the level of the harmonics and modulating that balance which FMVDO can't do (or any other Euro VCO apart from RS370).


hmmm..... That wasn't my impression. Correct me if i'm wrong, but all that's happening sound generation-wise in that patch - subtle tone characteristics apart - is the narrow-banded scan mentioned above (precisely equivalent of sequencing a sinoid by set amounts of voltages corresponding to the pitch of each of those partials). The signal is then fm:ed by (or is fm:ing) another sound source. And that's the bulk of it, the vca/gate part aside.

Sound may differ to some degree as every circuit has its own sound, but the modus operandi seems analogous if not the same to me to any sequenced two-operator based fm patch.

Of course, i'm not denying the harmonic vco can do a lot of other things. I just wanted to mention that extremely narrowly set bands have limited uses that other modules one might have in the rack can't cover already. Then again, slow scanning sounds different to an oscillator that just jumps between pitches. (The harmonica effect)

For me, it would be more interesting to leave the first partial in the mix a bit all the time while scanning a bit wider band, as a starting point for most patches.
chrisso
On the Harmonic Osc, there are a few good demos of the 200 format version on YouTube. It seems very flexible and unique to me. Each harmonic band adds significantly to the tone of the oscillator. The effect of adding and mixing harmonics is not at all 'subtle' to my ears. It's been on my want list for a couple of years, but $1800..........
On the voltage multi stage, I have the similar 200 format version. It's basically a sequencer, including some of the slide and gate-rest options of the popular Roland boxes. In addition you can cycle the sequencer in a way such that every stage become a point in an envelope or LFO. So by positioning the sliders you can create some unique envelope shapes for example.
I haven't used the a Euro version, so I could be reading it wrong.
tanio
analogPedagog wrote:
plogbidman wrote:
Could anyone explain the way of using a Voltage Multistage ? seriously, i just don't get it


From what I gather, it is very similar to a sequencer with a linear glide control. The differences seem to be that the voltage level of the previous stage can be held if the slider is switched off. There are sustain CV controls as well. Then there is a the latching ability to make it act like a variable quantizer.

Simply put - it outputs a versatile user controlled voltage.

I would use it as described in the info - sequencer, multistage envelopes/LFOs etc.
I would imagine you could also use this to draw interesting audio waveforms using a high clock rate.


Is the Voltage Multistage similar to the Verbos 247v Sequential Voltage Source?
http://buchlatech.blogspot.com/2013/05/video-of-new-verbos-247v-sequen tial.html
chrisso
I don't know enough about the Euro version yet, but it looks quite similar, perhaps not identical.
Count Edlington
theflyingfridge wrote:
Count Edlington wrote:
theflyingfridge wrote:
plogbidman wrote:
Could anyone explain the way of using a Voltage Multistage ? seriously, i just don't get it


I'm also curious about this as I have a harder time wrapping my head around this module than most. As a side note, this stuff looks great. I wonder how long it will be before he releases a few other modules. I can totally see the draw for a complete buchla system like this!

Sadly I just filled my case...


Obviously without using it I can only speculate about how it functions, but if I understand it correctly then it's basically a sequencer but very flexible check out the Buchla MARF.
I was just thinking of a patch where the sequencer would be stepping through it's sequence and then using one of the gates patched into the strobe input, with a cycling lfo (or any CV) going into the CV in, would give you some weird resets and depending on how cyclic the CV in was, could give you some nested loop like function, especially if several gate outs were combined.


Woah! In reading a little more, this thing looks crazy. I would definitely want two of them in a system like this though, as I'm assuming any of those functions would be dependent on the "time" of the sequence, correct?


Yeah two would be mental, but with just one you could use CVA or B and patch it back into the time CV in, so one row outputs voltages and the other controls the time function. If you had two you could cross modulate them and things would get really interesting.
chrisso
Two would be OTT, at least to begin with.
ignatius
there are 6 or 7 demos of the harmonic oscillator in buchla format from Todd Barton. if you search through his videos you'll find them. here's a couple.

https://vimeo.com/user2359061



MindMachine
What are the 8 red jacks on the Voltage Multistage - inputs or outputs?
qu.one
MindMachine wrote:
What are the 8 red jacks on the Voltage Multistage - inputs or outputs?


Individual stage outputs I believe.
Count Edlington
I thought they were gates since main gate out is red? seriously, i just don't get it
ignatius
i'm waiting for some demos. there are enough little differences between some of these and the buchla format versions that they aren't 1 to 1 clones.. so they'll perhaps sound/function a little different???

the harmonic oscillator is really appealing to me. i'd have to sell some modules to make room (and cash!) for it but before i get into that shuffle i want to hear stuff.
DSC
Not sure what kind of initial stock the first run is though, so knowing how that goes the first demo that comes out and bam they are all long gone.
I'll risk it. Just purchased the harmonic osc from AH.
Cross my fingers. 8_)
ignatius
DSC wrote:
Not sure what kind of initial stock the first run is though, so knowing how that goes the first demo that comes out and bam they are all long gone.
I'll risk it. Just purchased the harmonic osc from AH.
Cross my fingers. 8_)


w/that in mind can you make a private demo just for me? Mr. Green lol

srsly.. almost pulled the trigger tonight a couple times. too much of my brain is like a swarm of bees right now though so i need to wait a few days.

edit: if i didn't need some practical things.. like a new garage door and health insurance i'd have bought it already. eek!
DSC
ignatius wrote:

srsly.. almost pulled the trigger tonight a couple times. too much of my brain is like a swarm of bees right now though so i need to wait a few days.


Yeah I have been oscillating back and forth all day too. (Pun intended, even though it's a bad one.) hmmm.....

Sure, as soon as I get it I can work up a demo. Any thing specific anyone wants to see? I only ask, because I always see the first post after someone posts a vid where they ask, "what would it sound like if you drove a MAC truck through it?" hihi
ignatius
DSC wrote:
ignatius wrote:

srsly.. almost pulled the trigger tonight a couple times. too much of my brain is like a swarm of bees right now though so i need to wait a few days.


Yeah I have been oscillating back and forth all day too. (Pun intended, even though it's a bad one.) hmmm.....

Sure, as soon as I get it I can work up a demo. Any thing specific anyone wants to see? I only ask, because I always see the first post after someone posts a vid where they ask, "what would it sound like if you drove a MAC truck through it?" hihi


just want to hear it in general and see if it has a nice character. the vimeo demos are really nice and show how flexible it is.
drumsofd00m
kao:be. wrote:
who is going to make a 296 for EURO? :hihi:


ADDAC did. Half the 296's channels, sort of like the Verbos Voltage Multistage is half the channels of the 248.
blinosynth
in the complex oscillator what is really miss is the Timbre Mod in the modulation switches. it would been cool ...
kimu
Any change to have them in europe?
flts
kimu wrote:
Any change to have them in europe?


This is probably obvious but Analogue Haven does ship to EU, the prices (even after shipping and VAT are added) are usually pretty close to what EU retailers have to charge after their markup + EU VAT + shipping from manufacturer. So it wouldn't be much easier or cheaper to buy from Schneider's for example (unless you don't have PayPal / credit card) and at least to Finland the shipping times don't differ much whether from USA or Germany.

I've ordered from AH several times with no issues whatsoever. I suppose that only thing different is warranty, but even then with a cottage industry such as this you'd probably rather be dealing with the module manufacturer directly in case of issues.
phutureboy
drumsofd00m wrote:
kao:be. wrote:
who is going to make a 296 for EURO? hihi


ADDAC did.

Which ADDAC module are you referring to ?
mystico
http://addacsystem.com/product/addac600-series/addac601-vc-fixed-filte rbank
phutureboy
really ? So the "spectral processor" is nothing more than a fixed filter bank ?
Tombola
phutureboy wrote:
really ? So the "spectral processor" is nothing more than a fixed filter bank ?


The 296 is a modular vocoder - analysis on each band so you can feed in a signal and get CV out for each band, or put CV in to control the output.

Feed it back into itself, it's like a Cwejman Res-4, but more like a Res-16.

There's also the 'program control' section which seemed to change the frequencies overall - not exactly sure what it was doing.

Here are three of them - the breathing sound is noise (from the Verbos Delay, which has plenty to spare) through the 296

qu.one
Count Edlington wrote:
I thought they were gates since main gate out is red? seriously, i just don't get it


Yup - but tapped from each stage instead of the summed out is what it looks like.
anselmi
I´m curious about that "dual four pole" module...the description is yummy but you know, this kind of words always sounds good and until you hear the actual thing they`re just a nice fantasy
kons
REgarding European imports: not all European countries have equally reliable customs and imports agencies and many apply extra surcharges for handling imports. So it can often work out a lot more expensive than buying through a European distributor who has paid much lower wholesale import costs.


And I have two (no three) quibbles with these modules (but very much in the 'exception proves the rule' vein)

I wish the HP sizes were matched so 16 and 32... the mutlistage 2hp larger... the dual fourpole an hp smaller.... so these could be racked up in beautiful symetric blocks....

Also these modules are so beautiful by themselves it would be a shame to mix them with other euro modules... these deserve to be in their own case and treated as an 'instrument' (again making equal hp divisions important)

and third--- yes those hex nuts are eye-pokingly awful!!... but I guess one could order some knurled nuts and switch them out...?
fudog
is it overkill for me to get two complex osc?
opsysbug
fudog wrote:
is it overkill for me to get two complex osc?


never. Guinness ftw!
fudog
thumbs up


just i dont know, maybe I should mix in a http://www.ctrl-mod.com/product-p/endorphin.es-furthrrrr.htm for variety. But my thinking is two osc of the same type is better for that slightly detuned sound - but i'm not sure this applies to west coast thinking.

i did look at a buchla system 3 to see if it was a done thing, and yeah they have two osc in that system.... so i'm thinking yeah go for it.
opsysbug
...or maybe the Harmonic Osc?
fudog
dont tempt me
exper
opsysbug wrote:
fudog wrote:
is it overkill for me to get two complex osc?


never. Guinness ftw!


Only complex! SlayerBadger!
oblis
køns wrote:
I wish the HP sizes were matched so 16 and 32... the mutlistage 2hp larger... the dual fourpole an hp smaller.... so these could be racked up in beautiful symetric blocks....

Also these modules are so beautiful by themselves it would be a shame to mix them with other euro modules... these deserve to be in their own case and treated as an 'instrument' (again making equal hp divisions important)


Yeah, The odd widths are a little strange...like many others I'm thinking of a dedicated cabinet. Hopefully the sizes were chosen with other releases in mind to make even rows in existing case sizes hmmm.....
L.C.O.
When new modules are released, the remaining HP dimensions will add up to perfect case... MAYBE! :-) ?
kimu
flts wrote:
kimu wrote:
Any change to have them in europe?


This is probably obvious but Analogue Haven does ship to EU, the prices (even after shipping and VAT are added) are usually pretty close to what EU retailers have to charge after their markup + EU VAT + shipping from manufacturer. So it wouldn't be much easier or cheaper to buy from Schneider's for example (unless you don't have PayPal / credit card) and at least to Finland the shipping times don't differ much whether from USA or Germany.

I've ordered from AH several times with no issues whatsoever. I suppose that only thing different is warranty, but even then with a cottage industry such as this you'd probably rather be dealing with the module manufacturer directly in case of issues.



I have bought a couple of times from US but it 's definitely not cheap. Shipment Fee are high , it takes 3 weeks or more using air mail , and when it arrives to italy i have to pay about 3% of import fee plus 22% of Vat plus a fixed Fee ...
you may arrange for declaring a lower value but this Also means Less refund in case of damage during shipment.
add that banks apply Fee if you pay in a foreign currency...
Ted
Hope these are all in stock when my tax return arrives.
Nantonos
anselmi wrote:
I´m curious about that "dual four pole" module...the description is yummy but you know, this kind of words always sounds good and until you hear the actual thing they`re just a nice fantasy

There aren't many 24dB/octave high pass filters to compare (half of it) with - unless someone has a discontinued A-123.
Count Edlington
I think this has been eye opening to see the amount of interest in Buchla inspired modules and hats off to Mark for doing so and making it affordable.

In saying that I think this proves that were actual Buchla modules for sale at say half their current price, a large percentage of us would probably start a Buchla system and BEMI would probably sell at least 4-5 times the amount of modules they do now, thereby allowing them to sell at a lower cost but make more profit.

I don't mean eurorack, I mean 4U banana.
Test2
Nantonos wrote:
anselmi wrote:
I´m curious about that "dual four pole" module...the description is yummy but you know, this kind of words always sounds good and until you hear the actual thing they`re just a nice fantasy

There aren't many 24dB/octave high pass filters to compare (half of it) with - unless someone has a discontinued A-123.


cwejman mmf-1 or mmf-2, would you count dual 2 poles?
drumsofd00m
Tombola wrote:
phutureboy wrote:
really ? So the "spectral processor" is nothing more than a fixed filter bank ?


The 296 is a modular vocoder - analysis on each band so you can feed in a signal and get CV out for each band, or put CV in to control the output.
[/video]


Same for the ADDAC 601 CV as far as I can see. I haven't used it myself yet, but the front panel sports CV inputs and envelope follower outputs for each band just like 296 and 296e, which is what sets these apart from the 295 or other simple fixed filter banks and allows for use as a modular vocoder. That is, you can choose which band is used to modulate the amplitude of which other band. Of course for an intelligible "vocoder" in the usual sense you'd probably need two x 296 for 16 bands of transfer. The ADDAC unit only has 8 bands so combining more than two for 12 or 16 band transfer *might* not make sense, however contrary to the Buchlas it does not state the frequencies on the panel, and maybe the bands' frequencies can be trimmed to allow for 16 bands spread over two units? Ask ADDAC I guess.

The 601 and 296 also have individual audio outs per band, the 296e doesn't. The 296 had a sweep function that the other two don't have. The Buchla modules have limited options for slewing the envelope followers, the ADDAC module doesn't. All have odd and even band bussed outputs in addition to a complete sum bus. The ADDAC additionally can switch individual bands off in the sum bus while retaining them in the split busses.

I'm not on ADDAC's payroll, just had a feeling their module may not be as prolific or even as known as other Buchla inspired stuff; maybe because they don't make a lot of fuss about it or it doesn't look cool enough or whatever else aspiring pseudo-Buchlists need for gratification ;) As for the visual simplicity of the 601, the lack of visualization by LED faders or even just a row of normal faders may be a drawback or a relief, it just depends on how you prefer to work.
chrisso
So why speculate about two modules you've never used, never even seen in person - ADDAC vs Verbos?
drumsofd00m
Chris, 1) I was not speculating but explaining what the manufacturer advertises, simply because someone asked about them. Of course I could just have said "why don't you google the ADDAC unit yourself". You could complain if I had fantasized about the sound, but I intentionally left that (most important) aspect out to stick with what anyone else can see as much as I can.
2) Where in my post was I speculating about any Verbos stuff?

Why don't you keep your repeated grumpiness about posts of mine to yourself, although I have to admit it's mildly amusing. I get your point re: speculating, but the point is that I try to make very clear in my posts what's from experience, what's from reading stuff anyone can read (but not always bothers to and asks here instead) and keep out speculation, not to mention speculation not marked as such. Do I get your most honorable approval now, officer? ;)
joao.ceser
Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana
ignatius
Hug Hug Hug

something awesome happened and there's more cool stuff for us to use to make sound with..

"hey let's fight on the internet!"

settle down guys.. settle down.. it's not even NAMM yet!
Federico
Is the VCA a low pass gate?
Nantonos
Test2 wrote:
Nantonos wrote:
anselmi wrote:
I´m curious about that "dual four pole" module...the description is yummy but you know, this kind of words always sounds good and until you hear the actual thing they`re just a nice fantasy

There aren't many 24dB/octave high pass filters to compare (half of it) with - unless someone has a discontinued A-123.


cwejman mmf-1 or mmf-2, would you count dual 2 poles?


I would not count a dual 12 dB/oct filter as a 24db/octave filter unless the cutoff frequencies and Q were connected and altered in clever ways to actually give a 24 dB/octave resultant slope, near the cuttoff frequency, no.
mrcharles
Demos are up on the Verbos site...

http://www.verboselectronics.com/media/
mikecameron
Man, that oscillator sounds good!
ignatius
thanks for the heads up. the complex oscillator sounds great. as does the harmonic oscillator.

multistage looks fun.
Lyonel
drumsofd00m wrote:
The Buchla modules have limited options for slewing the envelope followers,


Adjustable Slew rate for each band on the 296e.
thesnow
no low pass gate demo! : (
Lyonel
mrcharles wrote:
http://www.verboselectronics.com/media/


The Complex Osc. and Dual Four Pole sound really great.
The Harmonic Oscillator's VCAs faders seems smoother/abruptless than on the 262v.
Bravo Monsieur Verbos !
Superb work !
mudlogger
The complex osc sounds great but having a DPO I couldn't justify getting it.
Sounds cleaner with less bells and whistles more like the further osc. Having said that it looks much more hands on and quicker to work with. Sometimes less is more. I do like the thicker, dirtier sound of the DPO.

Very impressed with the filter. A definite sleeper module of the set. Something I wasn't really interested in as I'm not really a filter guy. It nails the sound I like in a filter. It sounds vintage. The LP reminded of the snowfall filter. Sounded a bit dirty and grungy. I like.

What's not to like about the harmonic osc. I've always wanted a 262v. This is a must for me as there's nothing really like it in Euro.

Still a little confused about the multistage and would like to see more of what it's about. 8 step sequencers don't float my boat so eager to see more aspects of it especially with modulation.
fudog
yeah loverly
fudog
mudlogger wrote:


Still a little confused about the multistage and would like to see more of what it's about. 8 step sequencers don't float my boat so eager to see more aspects of it especially with modulation.


I'm no expert and never used one, but from what I understand, just think of it as a versatile cv modulator. Its up to you how you utilise it: as an lfo, as an env, as sequencer, whatever. I think you can even use it as an osc—where you draw the wav you want. nanners
ben_hex
These look wicked! Hope they make it into Europe at some point.
Count Edlington
I'm wondering how the voltage thingy responds to cv input when glide is on. Would it glide from stage to stage or what? Say you jump from step 1 to step 5, would it glide from step one's value to step 5's?

I guess we'll have to wait for some more demo's. I'm hoping it can do Morphun like stuff, that would be great (but not great financially for me).
ritchiedrums
OK!!! SlayerBadger!

Where can I buy THOSE KNOBS?!?!? screaming goo yo
Soundifferent
I remember reading somewhere that those Rogans are currently made on request only.
I hope somebody proves me wrong... lol
Count Edlington
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=90309&highlight=buch la+knobs

They're custom jobs I think but xpander does runs of them in the DIY section. 8_)
lintfresh
Harmonic Osc looks really interesting. Super curious about the modulation possibilities and individual partial outputs. A lot of potential fun to be had there. Maybe pair the individual outs with a sequential switch or two?

Complex Osc sounds great, but I already also have a DPO. Seems a bit redundant, right? Or am I missing something? Love my DPO.

The sequencer doesn't seem all that unique/interesting to me. Am I missing something there too? The glide feature is really that special?
fudog
thats because its not a sequencer

its a 2x voltage with eight steps, that can be used in various ways
lintfresh
fudog wrote:
thats because its not a sequencer

its a 2x voltage with eight steps, that can be used in various ways


How is that different than any other dual 8 step sequencer?
chrisso
Yeah, but reality is it's mostly a sequencer.
(as an owner of the Buchla version).
The slide and rest features are not that 'special', but they do enable classic Roland style sequencers, which for me is a plus.
I don't have a great deal of use for complex, custom designed envelopes, but it's a nice bonus feature of this module. I wouldn't buy it for that alone personally.
kindredlost
The Multistage seems more like a toolkit utility than a full bore sequencer. If it's slide step action you want then the Metropolis is really the thing to jump on. For a wildly open-ended voltage manipulator, the Multistage is a killer module.
chrisso
Verbos Electronics have decided to highlight the sequencer aspect in their product demo video however.
ZenMusic
Lyonel wrote:
Adjustable Slew rate for each band on the 296e.

on the 296e ? what's this mean?
ZenMusic
mrcharles wrote:
Demos are up on the Verbos site...

thanks.. saved me some money$$
wmbb
ZenMusic wrote:
mrcharles wrote:
Demos are up on the Verbos site...

thanks.. saved me some money$$


Except for the harmonic oscillator, and I don't know how useful, as opposed to neat, that would be, I didn't hear anything particularly extraordinary. Maybe I am missing something.
thiagozt
guess I am keeping the DPO...
de_raaf
need to listen my myself, hope to pick one of those up if funds allow
milkshake
Sounds like hype to me.
de_raaf
well its not that he reinveted water, so its harder to surprice anymore , its based around buchla stuff, not a new twist or something done really new with a more personal approach like wmd or some others
but it does offer west coast classic stuff more into euro
ignatius
i think it all sounds great so far.. still want to hear more from the harmonic oscillator and how it compares to his buchla format version. that one sounds amazing in those vimeo demos.

i think his complex oscillator sounds great. there are moments half way through his demo where it starts talking a little and the square wave gets all spikey percussive. a nice sound.
amnesia
You are dealing witha visionary remember :-)
spacenoodle
The complex oscillator sounds almost exactly like the Kilpatrick K3020. Which happens to be my go-to osc and I dumped my DPO in favor of it. But (since the initial hype) it has not been talked about or particularly favored by anyone. So after this thread thread dies and goes silent for a year, I will buy one of your "great" sounding Verbos complex oscillators on the BST for cheap! It's motherfucking bacon yo
Lyonel
ZenMusic wrote:
Lyonel wrote:
Adjustable Slew rate for each band on the 296e.

on the 296e ? what's this mean?


Well, I don't really know how to say that an other way.
You can slow down or speed up the resulting voltage respond, individually for each of the sixteen 296e bands.
ignatius
spacenoodle wrote:
The complex oscillator sounds almost exactly like the Kilpatrick K3020.


i think _exact_ is a rather strong word maybe? but i say that as someone who's not used/heard either of them in person and only heard lot's of demos. the 3020 certainly offers some complexity but is the same kind of configuration?

spacenoodle wrote:
So after this thread thread dies and goes silent for a year, I will buy one of your "great" sounding Verbos complex oscillators on the BST for cheap! It's motherfucking bacon yo


which is the only place you can buy a Kilpatrick 3020 (or kilpatrick euro anything these days aside from the few things left at AH) since they're out of production and out of stock. seriously, i just don't get it

i'm not interested in the verbos complex oscillator but i'm not gonna deny that i like the sound of it.. you can characterize that however you like.

is there some kind of backlash to something new in euro that is a buchla clone and semi-expensive or whatever? i'm not really sure what the big deal is and why panties are in a bunch. is this something personal?

i never quite understand how more of a good thing is a bad thing when it comes to options to put in my case.

as for hype.. well, there hasn't been any really. the modules were announced when they were available. there are demos, a promo video. these things are more than in line w/normal business practices.

maybe i lack the skills to perceive what's really going on here. Guinness ftw!
infradead
watched the videos.

still lusting after a multistage which means i'm now shoppig for a new case.

Dead Banana
L.C.O.
ignatius wrote:
[...]

as for hype.. well, there hasn't been any really. the modules were announced when they were available. there are demos, a promo video. these things are more than in line w/normal business practices.

maybe i lack the skills to perceive what's really going on here. Guinness ftw!



I agree, this must have been the most hype-less release imaginable: one day the line is announced, and is in story to buy!

Which part of this is hype?
contrasttx
I think it's partly just reaction to the demos rather than the modules. Nowadays I think manufacturer endorsed demo videos really need to be a bit more structured than these are. Also 3 of the 5 modules aren't really anything new in terms of features or combinations thereof.
ignatius
contrasttx wrote:
I think it's partly just reaction to the demos rather than the modules. Nowadays I think manufacturer endorsed demo videos really need to be a bit more structured than these are. Also 3 of the 5 modules aren't really anything new in terms of features or combinations thereof.


hmm. well.. i'd say most demos aren't structured. there are exceptions but for the most part no.. they are just flipping through functions or showing one thing.

also, just because something might already exist doesn't mean we won't get more of that.. i mean.. how many different LFOs and envelopes do we have?

several manufacturers work towards making a complete system w/just their modules. so, why is it sacrosanct for someone new to euro to do the same???

a few people have already expressed that they want to get all of them and make a 1 manufacturer system w/the Verbos euro modules.

and new people come into modular all the time and need to buy all the things that make up a system.. so i don't get your point.

also, the modules were just released. there could be 10 demos on just the harmonic oscillator alone to cover it's features. so, perhaps there will be more sooner or later.
contrasttx
No no, I'm not saying they are bad or not worthwhile. I like them. I just mean, there aren't a lot of new features to point to on several of the modules, and the demos aren't so great, so the result is the kind of mildly negative reaction you see on the past couple pages.

Re: demos my point there is really just that if a manufacturer is going to have an official video, these days it really needs to represent the module properly and positively - look at something like the WMD MME video for example. Better no official video at all than one that isn't at least that good IMO, as evidenced I think by the recent commentary. User demos are of course a different story, anything goes there.
kimu
listen to the video on verbo's website.
sincererly i would expect a different timbre, the complex oscillator sounds very clean and precise (not that is bad of course, but i prefer a little bit nastier sound), also the vcf sounds quite clean and polish.
the harmonic vco is really interesting as well the multistage envelopes.
Spip
+1 concerning the negative feeling of the demos.

IMHO, they will not help to sell the modules.

I was a good candidate for impulse buying the oscillator but after seeing the demo, the doubt is too big...
Matos
Impulse buying is the worst way to build an instrument. These are tactile, multifaceted machines capable of infinite possibilities. How you patch is more important than what your patching. This man dropped an amazing line of modules with no hype, no teaser, no fluff. Just bam! Available now, with a lush website, clean design, the works. His work needs no explanation. The brave and the brilliant will make beautiful music with these. Those who are brash and flush with cash will have pretty toys to ooh and aah over. And once again, some nobody some where using a neglected, half working relic of technology will produce something of unspeakable beauty while the internet massive burns effigies and fills the streets with blood over the lack of nuts on their easels. I feel stupid, and contagious. Here we are now, entertain us.
infradead
Matos wrote:
Impulse buying is the worst way to build an instrument. These are tactile, multifaceted machines capable of infinite possibilities. How you patch is more important than what your patching. This man dropped an amazing line of modules with no hype, no teaser, no fluff. Just bam! Available now, with a lush website, clean design, the works. His work needs no explanation. The brave and the brilliant will make beautiful music with these. Those who are brash and flush with cash will have pretty toys to ooh and aah over. And once again, some nobody some where using a neglected, half working relic of technology will produce something of unspeakable beauty while the internet massive burns effigies and fills the streets with blood over the lack of nuts on their easels. I feel stupid, and contagious. Here we are now, entertain us.


nicely put
Spip
Matos wrote:
Impulse buying is the worst way to build an instrument. These are tactile, multifaceted machines capable of infinite possibilities. How you patch is more important than what your patching. This man dropped an amazing line of modules with no hype, no teaser, no fluff. Just bam! Available now, with a lush website, clean design, the works. His work needs no explanation. The brave and the brilliant will make beautiful music with these. Those who are brash and flush with cash will have pretty toys to ooh and aah over. And once again, some nobody some where using a neglected, half working relic of technology will produce something of unspeakable beauty while the internet massive burns effigies and fills the streets with blood over the lack of nuts on their easels. I feel stupid, and contagious. Here we are now, entertain us.


Thanks for the lesson !

I just wanted to say that I need this kind of oscillator and I will not buy the Verbos one, thanks to the demos...
ignatius
all this new amazing stuff is tearing us apart.

i recommend that manufacturers stop making new awesome things or we'll all become endless boring jerkfaces.
drumsofd00m
I used to think "hype" meant the phenomenon of the run and the buzz generated by the audience of something, not the strategy used by the ones offering that something. So much for my English, apparently...

Verbos himself is definitely not "hyping" his stuff, there was a huge buzz around here and now some are taken aback by the demos. So what. LOL @ what Matos said ;) Really, in most situations all that counts is to know what you want to do/ to reach and then go for that with whatever tools you have/ can afford or decided to get at some earlier point.
chrisso
The Buchla name has become a bit mythical, especially at this forum.
To me it feels like people assume there is some complex magic in the Buchla design or sound. The 100 and 200 series modules are more musical than anything to me. The 100 series and many of the 200 series are very basic by modern standards.
Of course they were pretty revolutionary at the time. And most of the complex magic came from the esoteric users who were attracted to early modular synthesis, buying and performing on Serge and Buchla.
One of the pluses about Mark Verbos to me is that he's often been inspired by the 200 series designs, and most often made modules that are musically useful. These Euro offerings are no different.
Regarding the Complex Oscillator. It doesn't sound too different from my vintage 259. I sold it after a while because I found it to be very clean, somewhat clinical. The 259 has gained mythical status. More because it's ultra rare and very good at what it does, not because it's the greatest sounding 'character' oscillator ever made. It does that complex modulation sound very well, but I far prefer my 258 - which incidentally was more common in Buchla 200 series systems.
I don't know Mark, but I'm presuming part of the idea was to launch enough modules to make an entire system. So you get a filter, a VCA, a couple of different oscillators and a sequencer.
Yeah, the sequencer is somewhat simple. Many original Buchla 100 and 200 series modules are quite simple, and often missing features we take for granted these days.
That's all part of the fun, making sounds in a different way.
There is not much pure innovation in the Verbos line, except perhaps the Harmonic Oscillator. That's because the designs are inspired by the Buchla of the early 70's. The designs people wax lyrical about, and dream to own.
So it's somewhat ironic that people bang on about the myth and magic of the Buchla 200 series, and when someone revisions it with authenticity it's criticised as nothing new.
ignatius
thanks chrisso

thumbs up
phutureboy
Count Edlington wrote:
I guess we'll have to wait for some more demo's. I'm hoping it can do Morphun like stuff, that would be great (but not great financially for me).

Mark Verbos should offer his full range of modules+case to Djangosfire, magical videos would follow and everybody would have to buy the modules... w00t
milkshake
Hype.
The "hype" was certainly not created by the manufacturer.
But if you read this thread from start to finish, you can conclude that the "hype" was created here on Muff's.
Then if I listen to the video's, it just doesn't live up to that expectation generated by this thread. Intact it all sounds very boring to me.
YMMV
drumsofd00m
chrisso wrote:

Yeah, the sequencer is somewhat simple. Many original Buchla 100 and 200 series modules are quite simple, and often missing features we take for granted these days.


Or they have features that most people seem to overlook or don't understand or simply have no use for because they don't have the vision and drive, the education, or just the aspirations that some of the early modular users had (by which I don't mean to devalue anybody, really). I mean features like stage select/ voltage addressed stages in addition to clocking - I won't go into that again because it never really resounds and just ebbs away.
That said, I agree that this type of sequencer technically isn't as "special" as it was in the 70s or even 90s. Someone mentioned the Metropolis in this thread, and judging from my two Ryk M-185s (which the Metropolis is based on), that comparison is quite valid. It's "Roland sequencer like features" as you called it plus the elusive, but crucial stage select - although it would make a huge difference if the Verbos module could use stage select and clocking at the same time, which I haven't gathered yet (in the Wiard Sequantizer this results in easy access to "jumbling" the scale/ arpeggio/ quantizing/ whatever that you've set with the pots/ EDIT: and at audio rates in something like ring modulation of the stage select input signal with the clock, or the whole sequence, not sure right now).

What it really depends on is what one wants to do with it. Chrisso, you said you don't have much use for "complex envelopes" - that's fine. Someone who has used a Waldorf Microwave for a long time might view those as essential tho - to name just one example (and to not give the game away about harmonic oscillators^^).
chrisso
milkshake wrote:

Then if I listen to the video's, it just doesn't live up to that expectation generated by this thread. Intact it all sounds very boring to me.
YMMV


What did you expect?
anselmi
I expected the complex oscillator to sound at least closer to his 258v but I don`t hear any of its deep character here...

Also the Dual Four Pole sounds more special in the words than in the demo

Too early to have a conclusion anyway, but I expected a more inmediate fall in love with them
milkshake
^^

I do have to say that the Voltage Multistage looks very cool as it has some very useful functions that are hard to patch with other sequencers.
chrisso
anselmi wrote:
I expected the complex oscillator to sound at least closer to his 258v but I don`t hear any of its deep character here...


Totally different beasts. It's obviously inspired by the 259 and from the video sounds very similar to my original 259.
I much prefer the 258, I have two in my system.
A lot of the Buchla filters are weak by 'East coast' standards. My low cut off filter is very plain, doesn't do much except roll off upper frequencies. It looks like Mark has come up with a more interesting design at least.
kindredlost
drumsofd00m wrote:
Or they have features that most people seem to overlook or don't understand or simply have no use for because they don't have the vision and drive, the education, or just the aspirations that some of the early modular users had (by which I don't mean to devalue anybody, really). I mean features like stage select/ voltage addressed stages in addition to clocking - I won't go into that again because it never really resounds and just ebbs away.
That said, I agree that this type of sequencer technically isn't as "special" as it was in the 70s or even 90s. Someone mentioned the Metropolis in this thread, and judging from my two Ryk M-185s (which the Metropolis is based on), that comparison is quite valid. It's "Roland sequencer like features" as you called it plus the elusive, but crucial stage select - although it would make a huge difference if the Verbos module could use stage select and clocking at the same time, which I haven't gathered yet (in the Wiard Sequantizer this results in easy access to "jumbling" the scale/ arpeggio/ quantizing/ whatever that you've set with the pots/ EDIT: and at audio rates in something like ring modulation of the stage select input signal with the clock, or the whole sequence, not sure right now).

What it really depends on is what one wants to do with it. Chrisso, you said you don't have much use for "complex envelopes" - that's fine. Someone who has used a Waldorf Microwave for a long time might view those as essential tho - to name just one example (and to not give the game away about harmonic oscillators^^).


After reading the description of the Multistage several times and letting the ideas sink in a bit I have concluded the module is quite a bit more step sequencer capable than I assumed from the demo.

The stage select with "slide" is only a small (yet powerful) portion of what I think of as important for MY work, but the incredible strobe and analog inputs are something which I haven't seen in most step sequencers.

I come from a Moog-ish background with use of a 960 sequencer as my "standard ideal". I have little working knowledge of Buchla modules but no reconceived bias against. I simply have never had the opportunity to own any. If the new Verbos Voltage Multistage is akin to any Buchla module then I wouldn't know. My point is that the use of the "strobe" and "analog" inputs allow for stage selection (albeit cv) which sets up jump, skip and reset in ways only the 960 is capable of. The 960 uses stage input and output JACKS for patching, but the VM uses cv for stage select input.

I agree drumsofd00m with your comment about how most will not find the need for some of these "features". It really isn't a matter of creativity or understanding but just style. I DO use things included in this module's sequencer set so for me it looks very useful.

The only slight criticism of the promotional aspects of the Verbos description (concerning voltage processing functions) are in the phrase...

"it is not practical to actually replace all of these with one module type, but the verbos electronics voltage multistage can create all of these control voltage types."

Kind of confusing, but I think was phrased poorly. What I take from this is to mean no ONE module can do all of the voltage functions AT ONCE but this module can do any of them one at a time.

Concerning the Harmonic Oscillator, again I have nothing in mind about Buchla to compare it to so this is pretty new idea for Euro. The Ian Fritz Ultrasonic Double Deka VCO is the only thing I've ever owned which can compare in any respect, and even then it is not the same concept totally. That as well is not available in Euro. So Verbos wins all around in the "new thing" category in Euro IMO. I just don't see the validity in the statement "there is nothing new here" when it is Euro rack we are comparing. If we are comparing everything under the sun then a soft "maybe".

Euro wins with these modules. Period.
fudog
[edit out by me]
anselmi
chrisso wrote:
anselmi wrote:
I expected the complex oscillator to sound at least closer to his 258v but I don`t hear any of its deep character here...


Totally different beasts. It's obviously inspired by the 259 and from the video sounds very similar to my original 259


yep, I know, but before this demos I wrote mark vervos asking if the complex oscillator could sound like 258v and he said :

Quote:
With the HARMONICS controls set in the right way, you should be able to get any of the sounds of a 258 as well. That is, fading from sine to square or sine to saw from voltage.


so, maybe it`s true and the demo doesn`t reflect it...or maybe we`re talking about different kind of sounds...I lust over the 258v`s fullness in the low register
Funky40
kindredlost wrote:
Euro wins with these modules. Period.

yup

even more, it is setting again more weight into Euro as beeing THAT format.
........now lets bring that e296 to euro hihi the music plays here
drumsofd00m
kindredlost wrote:

The stage select with "slide" is only a small (yet powerful) portion of what I think of as important for MY work, but the incredible strobe and analog inputs are something which I haven't seen in most step sequencers.


You got this wrong - the strobe input needs a gate and *then* the analog input (="stage select") will work.

Which defeats the possibility of XOR'ing/ ring modulating the clock and the CV like in the Wiard Sequantizer, I didn't realize that in my last post. Clocking and stage select are exclusive here, like in the M-185/ Metropolis.

What I'm curious about now is what goes on at the "reference" output in strobe/ analog addressing/ stage select/ whatever-you-call-it mode, as well as with an external clock ("advance" input). Since the module doesn't know how long it will remain at the selected stage, it doesn't make much sense to generate a decay slope. Maybe it's simply inactive as long as the module is not clocked internally? Chrisso, you said you have the Buchla original, can you tell us?


Quote:
My point is that the use of the "strobe" and "analog" inputs allow for stage selection (albeit cv) which sets up jump, skip and reset in ways only the 960 is capable of.


No, see above. When stage select and clocking are exclusive, there is no jump, skip and reset in stage select mode. Your input CV will have to do that, i.e. if you want to skip from stage 2 to stage 4, your input CV will have to jump from X to Y Volts (like from a keyboard, stepped random voltage source, or put through a S&H).

Quote:
The 960 uses stage input and output JACKS for patching, but the VM uses cv for stage select input.


There is analog addressing, pulse addressing as in "clocking"/ "stepping" , and pulse addressing as in activating a stage via a direct gate input. I honestly don't know how to verbally separate the latter two, maybe I'm using the term pulse addressing wrongly for one of them, but the point is to keep these three apart. Each has its own uses. Analog addressing enables the use as quantizer/ waveshaper/ "stroboscope" if you will, and direct per-stage pulse addressing is mainly useful when used in conjunction with *another* sequencer that has individual per-step gate outputs (such as a second 960, or the Multistage Voltage), or maybe simply as a source of eight DC offset "presets" that can be activated with a button or an external gate more conveniently then by having to step through the sequence up to the desired stage and then stopping there. I don't see much use for it nowadays, it just reminds me of Tangerine Dream on stage with a truck full of Moog (or PPG?) modulars that they were happy to dump in favor of digital sequencers.

The main difference between the east coast and west coast sequencers is that the first ones were mainly (not saying exclusively) used in linear fashion, while Buchla's should be thought of as *nonlinear* function generators. They can perform the classic "Berlin school" staccato most people associate with "analog sequencer" as well as transform an analog input.

Quote:

The only slight criticism of the promotional aspects of the Verbos description (concerning voltage processing functions) are in the phrase...

"it is not practical to actually replace all of these with one module type, but the verbos electronics voltage multistage can create all of these control voltage types."

Kind of confusing, but I think was phrased poorly.


I think he nailed it.

You *can* have a complete modular system with *all* typical/ classic functions by buying nothing but these five Verbos modules (no, except for a mixer, sorry). He just says that it would be overkill to buy four of his Voltage Multistage modules if all you want to use them for is two ADSRs and, pardon, the Berlin school staccato.
drumsofd00m
P.S. @ anselmi:

You should check Mark Verbos' blog for an analysis of the 258's waveshapes. They are quite peculiar and deviate a lot from perfect sine, saw and square waves. That's what many people love about the 258, as well as the extreme FM depth and the sounds you can get with that. Remember that the waveforms printed or names on module panels are just theory and the actual outputs can look quite different. What he wrote you means that the *nominal* waveshapes are available. That doesn't necessarily mean that he tweaked his module to have the 258's peculiar forms. I'm curious to hear/ see what the first recipients of it will find in that regard.
milkshake
http://buchlatech.blogspot.nl/2009/01/funny-waveshapes.html
modulargrey
I think the disappointment in the demos might come from the fact that they weren't structured and detailed enough to be real tech demos or flashy sexy melt your face patch demos, they were just kinda random.

I want to hear the whole thing patched up...
mooneh
i will buy these, i think they sound great.
milkshake
mkndr
Matos wrote:
Impulse buying is the worst way to build an instrument. These are tactile, multifaceted machines capable of infinite possibilities. How you patch is more important than what your patching. This man dropped an amazing line of modules with no hype, no teaser, no fluff. Just bam! Available now, with a lush website, clean design, the works. His work needs no explanation. The brave and the brilliant will make beautiful music with these. Those who are brash and flush with cash will have pretty toys to ooh and aah over. And once again, some nobody some where using a neglected, half working relic of technology will produce something of unspeakable beauty while the internet massive burns effigies and fills the streets with blood over the lack of nuts on their easels. I feel stupid, and contagious. Here we are now, entertain us.


This to the nth. Every module purchase is a leap of faith, in the end, and possibly moreso than other types of instruments, because limitless possibilities are baked into the workflow from the start. Art is ultimately about using flawed tools, practically and largely without ceremony, to achieve transcendence.

To this end, I find it interesting that these demos turn people off. The harmonic oscillator satisfies the spectral composition impulse in me, and to my knowledge nothing quite like it is on the market. I can't fathom how people are not wholly excited about the compositional possibilities of this thing. If I had started out on modular synths right now, I would likely make this one of the centerpieces of my minimal setup.

Fantastic, fantastic work on these modules. Will be buying the harmonic oscillator when I can put in time to use it well.
kindredlost
drumsofd00m wrote:
kindredlost wrote:

The stage select with "slide" is only a small (yet powerful) portion of what I think of as important for MY work, but the incredible strobe and analog inputs are something which I haven't seen in most step sequencers.


You got this wrong - the strobe input needs a gate and *then* the analog input (="stage select") will work.

Which defeats the possibility of XOR'ing/ ring modulating the clock and the CV like in the Wiard Sequantizer, I didn't realize that in my last post. Clocking and stage select are exclusive here, like in the M-185/ Metropolis.

What I'm curious about now is what goes on at the "reference" output in strobe/ analog addressing/ stage select/ whatever-you-call-it mode, as well as with an external clock ("advance" input). Since the module doesn't know how long it will remain at the selected stage, it doesn't make much sense to generate a decay slope. Maybe it's simply inactive as long as the module is not clocked internally? Chrisso, you said you have the Buchla original, can you tell us?


Quote:
My point is that the use of the "strobe" and "analog" inputs allow for stage selection (albeit cv) which sets up jump, skip and reset in ways only the 960 is capable of.


No, see above. When stage select and clocking are exclusive, there is no jump, skip and reset in stage select mode. Your input CV will have to do that, i.e. if you want to skip from stage 2 to stage 4, your input CV will have to jump from X to Y Volts (like from a keyboard, stepped random voltage source, or put through a S&H).

Quote:
The 960 uses stage input and output JACKS for patching, but the VM uses cv for stage select input.


There is analog addressing, pulse addressing as in "clocking"/ "stepping" , and pulse addressing as in activating a stage via a direct gate input. I honestly don't know how to verbally separate the latter two, maybe I'm using the term pulse addressing wrongly for one of them, but the point is to keep these three apart. Each has its own uses. Analog addressing enables the use as quantizer/ waveshaper/ "stroboscope" if you will, and direct per-stage pulse addressing is mainly useful when used in conjunction with *another* sequencer that has individual per-step gate outputs (such as a second 960, or the Multistage Voltage), or maybe simply as a source of eight DC offset "presets" that can be activated with a button or an external gate more conveniently then by having to step through the sequence up to the desired stage and then stopping there. I don't see much use for it nowadays, it just reminds me of Tangerine Dream on stage with a truck full of Moog (or PPG?) modulars that they were happy to dump in favor of digital sequencers.

The main difference between the east coast and west coast sequencers is that the first ones were mainly (not saying exclusively) used in linear fashion, while Buchla's should be thought of as *nonlinear* function generators. They can perform the classic "Berlin school" staccato most people associate with "analog sequencer" as well as transform an analog input.

Quote:

The only slight criticism of the promotional aspects of the Verbos description (concerning voltage processing functions) are in the phrase...

"it is not practical to actually replace all of these with one module type, but the verbos electronics voltage multistage can create all of these control voltage types."

Kind of confusing, but I think was phrased poorly.


I think he nailed it.

You *can* have a complete modular system with *all* typical/ classic functions by buying nothing but these five Verbos modules (no, except for a mixer, sorry). He just says that it would be overkill to buy four of his Voltage Multistage modules if all you want to use them for is two ADSRs and, pardon, the Berlin school staccato.


Seems to me the step sequencer functions of jump / skip / and reset via cv and a pulse are still "do-able" regardless of the way it is done. My point is that there aren't very many step sequencers capable of all of these functions and that makes the Voltage Multistage module more of a sequencer than I had first thought. I certainly agree it is NOT the best solution or meant to be a full-blown function set for step sequencing, but in a pinch could provide the service.

I don't think I'd consider the VM if all I were looking for was a sequencer. It seems like a great tool-kit solution like a voltage source/processor and function generator on steroids with the "hidden" ability to use as a step sequencer/quantizer.

I'll stop talking before I become too Verbos(e). hihi
DSC
mkndr wrote:

The harmonic oscillator satisfies the spectral composition impulse in me, and to my knowledge nothing quite like it is on the market. I can't fathom how people are not wholly excited about the compositional possibilities of this thing. If I had started out on modular synths right now, I would likely make this one of the centerpieces of my minimal setup.

Fantastic, fantastic work on these modules. Will be buying the harmonic oscillator when I can put in time to use it well.


+1 to this. Mine will be delivered on Thursday. I was developing my own Harmonic Osc and I have been trying to work out many hurdles. Having one that is affordable in euro is like a dream come true.
usw
mkndr wrote:
The harmonic oscillator satisfies the spectral composition impulse in me, and to my knowledge nothing quite like it is on the market.

Erthenvar's Patch Chord generates 12 harmonics and 12 subharmonics out of a single vco, coupling it with two or more Mutable Instrument Frames, a good frequency shifter with v/oct control, a cwejman resonator or addac filterbank and a Verbos Voltage Multistage would be a wiser choice for spectral composition (but still not wiser than using a computer in my opinion) wink
Nelson Baboon
I love these fierce debates that take place before anyone has even tried the modules, based on some simple demos....

My harmonic oscillator and the sequencer thing (can't remember what the damn thing is called) should arrive tomorrow, and the filter by the end of the week. I'm very much looking forward to them.

I personally thought that the demos sounded good, but until I sit down (or stand up) with them, and actually use them, I won't really know how useful they will be.
milkshake
Everyone here is looking forward to your demo's. SlayerBadger!
qu.one
modulargrey wrote:
I think the disappointment in the demos might come from the fact that they weren't structured and detailed enough to be real tech demos or flashy sexy melt your face patch demos, they were just kinda random.

I want to hear the whole thing patched up...


really? those were some of the best and most straight-forward demos i've seen. no convoluted patching — just simple use of the module in question. especially on VCOs — i want raw VCO. I don't want it sequenced, filtered or anything else. i could actually see and understand what was happening.
spacenoodle
ignatius wrote:
i think _exact_ is a rather strong word maybe? but i say that as someone who's not used/heard either of them in person and only heard lot's of demos. the 3020 certainly offers some complexity but is the same kind of configuration?


The sound in the demo reminds me enough of the Kilpatrick, that it feels very familiar though. The K3020 has a different feature set and behaviours (particularly with waveshaping) but it seems to have similar aims as a 259. Presumabley, they went out of production because nobody was interested anymore. Maybe if it was more a Buchla clone or had big blue knobs it would still be available, I don't know.

ignatius wrote:
which is the only place you can buy a Kilpatrick 3020 (or kilpatrick euro anything these days aside from the few things left at AH) since they're out of production and out of stock. seriously, i just don't get it

i'm not interested in the verbos complex oscillator but i'm not gonna deny that i like the sound of it.. you can characterize that however you like.

is there some kind of backlash to something new in euro that is a buchla clone and semi-expensive or whatever? i'm not really sure what the big deal is and why panties are in a bunch. is this something personal?

i never quite understand how more of a good thing is a bad thing when it comes to options to put in my case.

as for hype.. well, there hasn't been any really. the modules were announced when they were available. there are demos, a promo video. these things are more than in line w/normal business practices.

maybe i lack the skills to perceive what's really going on here. Guinness ftw!


The over postiive noise that generates here in our forums after an announcement (or even an unnannounced release like this) is all I meant. It's a good thing too because if we were too hesitant to take a small risk and jump on something new, the modular synth market would become stagnant. But I've also learned the most accurate critique and response happens when the initial excitement settles, after several months time.

I didn't mean to single you out there. I think the complex oscillator sounds great. That's why I'm thinking of getting one!
modulargrey
qu.one wrote:

really? those were some of the best and most straight-forward demos i've seen. no convoluted patching — just simple use of the module in question. especially on VCOs — i want raw VCO. I don't want it sequenced, filtered or anything else. i could actually see and understand what was happening.


true, don't get me wrong I'm gonna pick these up. But the whole site presentation was really great, it would have been nice to see the videos go a step further. Also the teaser video was a fun little thing, would have been nice to bring in some of that in, maybe have Mark talk a bit. But I'm sure there's more to come.
thetwlo
qu.one wrote:

really? those were some of the best and most straight-forward demos i've seen. no convoluted patching — just simple use of the module in question. especially on VCOs — i want raw VCO. I don't want it sequenced, filtered or anything else. i could actually see and understand what was happening.


thumbs up yes, thought they sounded great. Demos for modules are always a problem as the possibilities are limitless, but these gave a good idea of what they sound like. Hopefully more to come, and will be great to see how others use them.
bsmith
Tote. I thought they were all cool demos, seem to be exactly what I hoped they would. And I'll get to see how the complex osc does in areas he didn't address so throughly later this week when mine gets here, yesssss..
ignatius
spacenoodle wrote:
ignatius wrote:
i think _exact_ is a rather strong word maybe? but i say that as someone who's not used/heard either of them in person and only heard lot's of demos. the 3020 certainly offers some complexity but is the same kind of configuration?


The sound in the demo reminds me enough of the Kilpatrick, that it feels very familiar though. The K3020 has a different feature set and behaviours (particularly with waveshaping) but it seems to have similar aims as a 259. Presumabley, they went out of production because nobody was interested anymore. Maybe if it was more a Buchla clone or had big blue knobs it would still be available, I don't know.



i think its bigger problem was the price. $900 is a lot of scratch. the macbeth dual oscillator was more expensive but a few hundred dollars.

but wondering why kilpatrick isn't making euro anymore is speculation. there's probably a handful of reasons. he does seem to be fine w/his new 4u format though so perhaps he just wanted to do something different.

anyway. when you get a verbos complex oscillator.. do some demos Mr. Green
Kirk Degiorgio
for those receiving a Verbos Complex Osc anyday soon - pls let us know how good the tracking is over several octaves. Call me old fashioned but I like things to stay in tune oops
CaptainGreg
These new modules look amazing. Has anyone used or heard them?
ws9848
I like those kinds of demos
chrisso
On the demos, I personally like demos that just show you simply what the module does. To be fair, several Euro makers have gone down this route - WMD, SSF and Intellijel spring to mind. I find the ear candy demos with multiple modules, a spaghetti bowl of patch chords and a cacophony of noise uninformative.
Mark Verbos has never been big on demos. With the Buchla modules you've been buying based on his blog text, a brief video and on Mark's reputation. Verbos is a working musician, so you think any module he designs is probably going to be musically useful. He also has a good understanding of vintage Buchla.
On the Complex Oscillator. It looks similar to a 259 and sounds similar to a 259 (emphasis on similar), it neither looks or sounds like a 258.
On the sequencer, I have the similar 247v. It's just very intuitive, hands on and creative. By patching and twiddling knobs you can come up with some interesting and great sounding sequences.
I've had Rene, Z8000 and Moskwa. The 247v is more intuitive for me than the first two, and I found Moskwa had some timing/software issue.
Metropolis might be a better pure sequencer than the Verbos, I don't know I haven't used it.
On the Harmonic Oscillator, I have an Erthenvar Patch Chord and I can't imagine it sounding or functioning anything like the Verbos module.
usw
About the 247v, when used as an envelope with a sustain stage, how do you patch it so that on gate off it resumes the remaining stages and holds on the last one until a gate signal resets/retriggers the envelope (sorry if it's not very clear...) ?
goiks
CaptainGreg wrote:
These new modules look amazing. Has anyone used or heard them?


just got mine on my lunch break today, not much time to play, but here's a tease. http://instagram.com/p/jceWdsMmd1/
ignatius
goiks wrote:
CaptainGreg wrote:
These new modules look amazing. Has anyone used or heard them?


just got mine on my lunch break today, not much time to play, but here's a tease. http://instagram.com/p/jceWdsMmd1/


thanks. nice to see it dance a little
DSC
goiks wrote:

just got mine on my lunch break today, not much time to play, but here's a tease. http://instagram.com/p/jceWdsMmd1/


Getting even more excited!
anselmi
Quote:
[quote="drumsofd00m"]P.S. @ anselmi:

You should check Mark Verbos' blog for an analysis of the 258's waveshapes.


thanks for this info, didn`t know about it!


Quote:
They are quite peculiar and deviate a lot from perfect sine, saw and square waves.


I already guessed this...there is a lot of similar examples in gear history


Quote:
What he wrote you means that the *nominal* waveshapes are available. That doesn't necessarily mean that he tweaked his module to have the 258's peculiar forms. I'm curious to hear/ see what the first recipients of it will find in that regard.


yep, I think this should be a valid point, but my question was not about "nominal" waveshapes but the actual SOUND of this modules

he was smart, elegant and correct in his answer, but we both know that my point was other
noisetheorem
I ordered the multistage. Man, have I been waiting for a sequencer like this! It's *exactly* what I was looking for in a modulator.
sonicwarrior
goiks wrote:
http://instagram.com/p/jceWdsMmd1/


Don't see anything there. Do I have to have an Instagram account to view this? seriously, i just don't get it
ignatius
sonicwarrior wrote:
goiks wrote:
http://instagram.com/p/jceWdsMmd1/


Don't see anything there. Do I have to have an Instagram account to view this? seriously, i just don't get it


no. you don't need an account to see it. a video clip should show up and look like a typical instagram page.
sonicwarrior
OK, I had to activate cookies for Instagram.

Edit: Still see only a picture and some comments now. Everything that involves Facebook just sucks.
Konrad Seifert
sonicwarrior wrote:
Everything that involves Facebook just sucks.


If this was facebook, I'd like this post. ;-)
rasseru
spacenoodle wrote:
The complex oscillator sounds almost exactly like the Kilpatrick K3020.


sounds a bit grittier & garly than my k3020 - probably down to the harmonic section..? mine is always well clean (in a good way)

but control over odd/even is always a welcome addition


the demo of the buchla harmonic osc sounds nice when it was scanning through the harmonics doing that squelchy thing. me likey that a lot

often with harmonic stuff (k5000 owner) theres a whole load of tones I hate and then one i love - not sure how easy it will be for me to use that functionality / and how expensive it will be to get similar tones (8xsine>8xenv> 8xvca) .. looking forward to a demo!
sonicwarrior
Konrad Seifert wrote:
If this was facebook, I'd like this post. ;-)


Then prepare to like it:

Wikipedia wrote:
The service was acquired by Facebook in April 2012 for approximately US$1 billion in cash and stock.


=> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instagram

Mr. Green
REwire
After chasing the 259 Wave Folding sound after selling my 259 a few years ago, the Complex Osc nails it exactly! I still have test samples and my YouTube video of the 259 and I am amazed the accuracy.

The problem is, the modulation ramp waveform doesn't snap like the 259, which always modulated like a saw. You also can't switch on FM, AM and Timbre modulation at the same time as on a 259.

So, same problem with the DPO, you need to patch around and for me, take a saw LFO to the FM and Timbre. But...There's no AM input so I have to ping it with a MakeNoise OptoMix.

Dan
ignatius
sonicwarrior wrote:
OK, I had to activate cookies for Instagram.

Edit: Still see only a picture and some comments now. Everything that involves Facebook just sucks.


move your cursor over the pic and the play button will show
Kent
I just checked them out at NAMM. They are impeccably built and the pots and sliders feel gorgeous. Excellent work, Mark!


Clap
sonicwarrior
ignatius wrote:
move your cursor over the pic and the play button will show


Nope. [Opera 12.16 on Win 7]
Spip
Kent wrote:
I just checked them out at NAMM. They are impeccably built and the pots and sliders feel gorgeous. Excellent work, Mark!


Clap


The pots feel like Doepfer or MakeNoise ? Mr. Green
microfauna
Spip wrote:
Kent wrote:
I just checked them out at NAMM. They are impeccably built and the pots and sliders feel gorgeous. Excellent work, Mark!


Clap


The pots feel like Doepfer or MakeNoise ? Mr. Green


If they feel gorgeous then neither.
bsmith




Definitely not any kind of 'demo', please don't take it as such, this thing kind sounda all kinda ways not indicated in this vid - this is just me playing around with the thing like 5 minutes after putting it in my case - just a little bit of 'getting to know you'. Sorry about the whole module not being in frame..
ignatius
thanks for the pics and the video!
bsmith
No prob!! Sure know I've been chomping at the bit to see more of this thing. And gah just watched the vid - I was so much younger an hour ago. I wish I'd not hung out so much on the low side of the low/high order knob, it does 'crispy' really wonderfully and that wasn't demonstrated much in the vid.
And also, man the build totally is brick shithouse solid, feels great, and bonus points for including nifty black washers, and bonus bonus points for including 2 sets of screw sizes, including some m2.5's that are longer than the one i have on hand, and were needed to accomodate the washer.
infradead
ah. i noticed those swell looking washers in the pic and was wondering about it.

thanks for posting that!
wselman
Wow. Thanks for the demo. Mine should arrive on Monday. I've followed Verbos's blog for a long time and knew when these modules were announced they'd be a must-own. we're not worthy
Cybananna
bsmith thanks for the video! I actually like that kind of demo better. The featured module doesn't get lost in a sea of other modules and you can actually tell what it's doing.

Looks like a great oscillator!
joey
My harmonic osc arrives today... Can't wait!
Cybananna
You'll have to tell us all about it!
acidbob
Tell me more tell me more.... lalalalal smile
mccolalx
Anyone used the Voltage Multistage yet?
opsysbug
joey wrote:
My harmonic osc arrives today... Can't wait!


Me too! But maybe not until 7pm. I'll text you later if I get it set up tonight!
flabby
Other than feature set, how does 259 and 258 sound compare?

I've heard 258 quite a few times, but 259? Suppose this should be a whole different thread.

Anyone gonna get the bongos out with the new Verbos?
chrisso
In terms of the real ones....
The 258 has the quality of a nice sounding standard oscillator.
Very full sounding and warm. The FM tones that come from the Osc are outstanding, a big part of the classic Buchla sound.
The 259 is cleaner, more modern sounding. It is plain unless modulated, hence the plethora of ways you can modulate the main Osc from the aux Osc.
For tonal music I much prefer the sounds I get from my 258.
Selador
Hey-- does anyone know if the dual four pole filters utilize vactrols in the CV signal path? hmmm.....

I hope not, if it FM's at all like the 191, I am so, so sold.

Anyone try FM'ing it yet?
flabby
chrisso wrote:
In terms of the real ones....
The 258 has the quality of a nice sounding standard oscillator.
Very full sounding and warm. The FM tones that come from the Osc are outstanding, a big part of the classic Buchla sound.
The 259 is cleaner, more modern sounding. It is plain unless modulated, hence the plethora of ways you can modulate the main Osc from the aux Osc.
For tonal music I much prefer the sounds I get from my 258.


Great answer Chrisso! Cheers! I'd had the same thoughts but only from trying euro stuff that was 'based on' or 'clones' of both (thinking m15). Have never actually tried the real stuff.
blungo2
Interesting stuff. I've been out of euro for a while, but i think these modules may inspire me to put together a little verbos skiff.
goiks
@blungo2 - we'll be up in the high cold desert on feb 18, I've got the multistage, complex oscillator and harmonic oscillator, and I'd be happy to bring them so you can check them out (if you want to wait that long, I don't think you'll be disappointed regardless).
Kirk Degiorgio
how well does the Complex Osc track over 5 octaves + pretty please?
bsmith
Kirk Degiorgio wrote:
how well does the Complex Osc track over 5 octaves + pretty please?

Solid over 7 octaves here.
weinglas
@bsmith: Great demo! Thanks for sharing applause
hpsounds
chrisso
Great.
I think the VCA/LPF is next on my list.
blungo2
goiks wrote:
@blungo2 - we'll be up in the high cold desert on feb 18, I've got the multistage, complex oscillator and harmonic oscillator, and I'd be happy to bring them so you can check them out (if you want to wait that long, I don't think you'll be disappointed regardless).


[begin official thread hijack]
Cool! Staying with us i hope! No worries, i won't have any money till summer at this point. Hopefully my Aleph will be here by then...
[end of thread hijack]
ignatius
harmonic oscillator still has me bonered but so do other things. help
exmd
bsmith wrote:




Definitely not any kind of 'demo', please don't take it as such, this thing kind sounda all kinda ways not indicated in this vid - this is just me playing around with the thing like 5 minutes after putting it in my case - just a little bit of 'getting to know you'. Sorry about the whole module not being in frame..


That thing sounds sick. My wallet hates you now. JK. Thanks for the video.
amnesia
hpsounds wrote:


one off Buchla modules?
exmd
GAH! What does this Complex Oscillator have to be so huge! I am having trouble fitting this in my rack!
LeCCComte
fudog wrote:
thats because its not a sequencer

its a 2x voltage with eight steps, that can be used in various ways


THIS is hype, for example.

Different steps, with each different voltages, but NO, they say it isn't a sequencer ok ? It's something else !
d'oh!
ignatius
LeCCComte wrote:
fudog wrote:
thats because its not a sequencer

its a 2x voltage with eight steps, that can be used in various ways


THIS is hype, for example.

Different steps, with each different voltages, but NO, they say it isn't a sequencer ok ? It's something else !
d'oh!


at 5:37 of the above posted FM NAMM video he goes through the multistage features
chrisso
Mark shows what it does in the video - starting with sequencing.
No hype from the maker IMO.
modulargrey
Awesome that he got a whole feature from future music. Also it started to get exciting, it was like a race to explain as many features as possible in 11:31.
modulargrey
exmd wrote:
GAH! What does this Complex Oscillator have to be so huge! I am having trouble fitting this in my rack!


That's what she said It's motherfucking bacon yo
LeCCComte
Yeah, it's a sequencer you can use in different ways, with advance functions (really cool functions indeed) to make really cool envelopes hihi
But you're still triggering a sequence of steps one after another, no ?

I'm not blaming the maker at all.
Just blaming the "oh god no, it's not a sequencer"
YES IT IS, it's a sequencer with really cool advance functions, making it an original one than can have a bunch of different applications, as shown in the video.

If every advanced sequencer isn't considered as one...
Count Edlington
You can voltage control the steps so it's non linear, meaning you can access any step at any time. With the extra sustain options it also means it's trigger-able, meaning it functions as a multi-stage envelope with the slews enabled. So it's just as much an envelope as it is a sequencer.
ignatius
we should give the "envelope" a penis and give the "sequencer" a penis and see which one can piss the furthest.... ya know.. a pissing contest. razz
bsmith
lol
w00t w00t w00t
what the hell y'all.
How about "It's a waveshaper" "it's a quantizer" "it's an oscillator" "it's a trapeze artist".
Look at the thing, use your imagination, come up with an application for it, and make it go. Funny argument.
chrisso
Whatever....
I'm happy it's a sequencer, and accept the other uses as a bonus.
LeCCComte
I am just saying the way it's used as an envelope is just another way to control a sequence. A triggable non linear sequence with slew.

But I don't care, the only module that grabbed my attention is the harmonic oscillator love

It's really a shame they never patch something cool... But only with the verbos you can't really use all the features of the modules confused or you'll have to plug five of those stepped voltage stuffs.
So I really don't understand how someone can plan an only verbos case... Really ? Only one envelope source for all this CV controllable things ?!? hmmm.....

Think the harmonic oscillator would make a perfect couple with the z-8000

(Yeah, trying to change the subject, sorry for the trolling)
ignatius
LeCCComte wrote:

So I really don't understand how someone can plan an only verbos case... Really ? Only one envelope source for all this CV controllable things ?!? hmmm.....


buy 2

LeCCComte wrote:
Think the harmonic oscillator would make a perfect couple with the z-8000


no one is stopping anyone from doing just that.. hence the beauty (insanity of eurorack)
thetwlo
ignatius wrote:
LeCCComte wrote:

So I really don't understand how someone can plan an only verbos case... Really ? Only one envelope source for all this CV controllable things ?!? hmmm.....


buy 2

thumbs up

LeCCComte wrote:
Think the harmonic oscillator would make a perfect couple with the z-8000


ignatius wrote:
no one is stopping anyone from doing just that.. hence the beauty (insanity of eurorack)

isn't that the reason he says he made Euro compatible modules in the first place? I would also speculate he might release another module or perhaps more than one in the future, as most makers seem to.
chrisso
Buchla customer base is small. 3rd party even smaller.
I imagine someone offered to fund a foray into Euro, and as he says, Euro is a dynamic and very popular format.
LeCCComte
ignatius wrote:


LeCCComte wrote:
Think the harmonic oscillator would make a perfect couple with the z-8000


no one is stopping anyone from doing just that.. hence the beauty (insanity of eurorack)


No one said anyone is stopping anyone, I really was just SAYING it would make a nice couple, like dropping an idea.
8 inputs / 8 outputs : perfect.

"Buy two" hahaha. NI.
thetwlo
chrisso wrote:
Euro is a dynamic and very popular format.


yeah, it sure doesn't have any other advantages, I'm sure he'd make a 4u system of some sort if he expected you to use only Verbos.
LeCCComte
Never said he expected that... Ok, my English isn't good enough so I can be completely understandable lol lol lol

I'M OUT thumbs up
ignatius
LeCCComte wrote:
Never said he expected that... Ok, my English isn't good enough so I can be completely understandable lol lol lol

I'M OUT thumbs up


you're english is great. internet communication can be weird sometimes.
LeCCComte
ignatius wrote:
LeCCComte wrote:
Never said he expected that... Ok, my English isn't good enough so I can be completely understandable lol lol lol

I'M OUT thumbs up


you're english is great. internet communication can be weird sometimes.


Yeah, Internet communication complicates everything exactly in the same way another language does : I cannot be subtle HAHAHA.
thetwlo
LeCCComte wrote:

Yeah, Internet communication complicates everything exactly in the same way another language does : I cannot be subtle HAHAHA.

thumbs up
Selador
The description of the LPG is a bit awkward.. If I get it correctly, only the filter cutoff is vactrol controlled, making it impossible to ping as a LGP in "both" mode, right? The VCA would shut quickly and negate the vactrol ringing..
seriously, i just don't get it
Do I have this right? I hope not. His mention of diode clipping leads me to believe it's a sallen-key design, and probably very faithful to the 292 sound..
berfmurret
I was trying not to be particularly interested in these big, expensive modules but holy carp that complex osc vid, bsmith.... holy wow! zombie
chrisso
Selador wrote:

Do I have this right? I hope not. His mention of diode clipping leads me to believe it's a sallen-key design, and probably very faithful to the 292 sound..


Can do quasi LPG and squelchy MS20 type filtering according to the video below.
goiks
ignatius
anyone know if the harmonic oscillators gets down into the LFO range?
rutabaga40
that harmonic oscillator is pretty sweet.
Bumply
rutabaga40 wrote:
that harmonic oscillator is pretty sweet.


Indeed. It's really wonderful. Here's a demo:

[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/131592893" params="color=ff5500&auto_play=false&show_artwork=true" width="100%" height="166" iframe="true" /]
a scanner darkly
The Harmonic Oscillator should make an interesting pairing with the ADDAC Filterbank and Modcan Quad LFO / Quad Invert...
jvt
ignatius wrote:
anyone know if the harmonic oscillators gets down into the LFO range?

The modulation oscillator certainly does. I haven't checked the principal yet. I'll have to try that out late rthis evening or tomorrow.

Edit: Oops! Read that wrong - I was thinking Complex Oscillator (hey, it was early!). Hadn't tried the harmonic oscillator in LFO range, but Lyonel has already answered that question.
Lyonel
ignatius wrote:
anyone know if the harmonic oscillators gets down into the LFO range?


CV in the attenuverter and it will go VERY SlowFO.
solaris
already mentioned here?
I just found this:


verbos touchplate keyboard.
oblis
solaris wrote:
already mentioned here?
I just found this:

...snip...

verbos touchplate keyboard.


I don't think so...but Shawn mentioned to me that it was next in the pipeline when I ordered the set of Verbos stuff last week. w00t

Edit: Some discussion over here
Soundifferent
solaris wrote:
already mentioned here?
(...)
verbos touchplate keyboard.

w00t Buchla 222e w00t
VC_Wiggular
Soundifferent wrote:
solaris wrote:
already mentioned here?
(...)
verbos touchplate keyboard.

w00t Buchla 222e w00t



finally... *tears of happiness*
flabby
Anyone pick up the tone controller?

Does it not being a dual VCA make any difference?
Selador
I just want to know if ringing bongos can be had with the tone controller cry

I called it with the 191, though.. Have one on the way!
flabby
Selador wrote:
I just want to know if ringing bongos can be had with the tone controller cry


Me too!

In case anyone hasn't seen it. Vernon Electronics hihi



EDIT: Sorry, didn't realise it's been posted. Maybe a should stop reading backwards.
Zaidmaxwell
any more video's from your studios? this namm stuff is hard to enjoy
SamUK
solaris wrote:
already mentioned here?
I just found this:
verbos touchplate keyboard.

It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners Dead Banana Dead Banana
jonne74
a scanner darkly wrote:
The Harmonic Oscillator should make an interesting pairing with the ADDAC Filterbank and Modcan Quad LFO / Quad Invert...


..or Dr Octature II.
Selador
jonne74 wrote:
a scanner darkly wrote:
The Harmonic Oscillator should make an interesting pairing with the ADDAC Filterbank and Modcan Quad LFO / Quad Invert...


..or Dr Octature II.


Or actually, neither. They're sines.. Nothing to filter there, the module itself IS the filter.

But using either on the amplitude CV ins on each individual harmonic on the oscillator itself would be interesting.. But I think those functions could be had with the two controls under the faders.
VC_Wiggular
Selador wrote:
jonne74 wrote:
a scanner darkly wrote:
The Harmonic Oscillator should make an interesting pairing with the ADDAC Filterbank and Modcan Quad LFO / Quad Invert...


..or Dr Octature II.


Or actually, neither. They're sines.. Nothing to filter there, the module itself IS the filter.

But using either on the amplitude CV ins on each individual harmonic on the oscillator itself would be interesting.. But I think those functions could be had with the two controls under the faders.



I think that's what was being suggested with the Dr Octature. Beside it being a filter, in LFO mode you get 8 outputs of phase-shifted sines and those would be interesting to use on the 8 harmonics inputs.

Malekko JAG could be cool to have around as well as it has 8 outputs of modulation.

I wonder how the harmonic oscillator's individual harmonic inputs react to audio modulation.
exmd
I just ordered the complex oscillator!
a scanner darkly
Yeah I meant using ADDAC Filterbank 8 envelope followers to control the amplitude of individual bands. Imagine controlling harmonic content with a drum loop, for instance.
mateo
a scanner darkly wrote:
Yeah I meant using ADDAC Filterbank 8 envelope followers to control the amplitude of individual bands. Imagine controlling harmonic content with a drum loop, for instance.


In other words… a vocoder? hihi
a scanner darkly
Well, kinda. Similar idea but the frequency bands are different so the effect will be different. Maybe somebody who's got both could do a demo?
clayhound
Ordering!
noisetheorem
I got my Multistage yesterday. This thing is HOT. It works exactly as I hoped it would. I may have to order a second one.
chrisso
Just received mine too. Haven't fired it up yet. Very solid feel in the hand. Professional quality build.
confusional
Dare I say this is the first in Euro that appears to be designed by someone who understands the needs of an actual performing musician who wants to rock the party, and not just another series of modules crammed with as many 'features' as possible that would only appeal to a bunch of other neck beards crowded around you panting as they watch you noodle?

Very nice indeed. booty wiggler
noisetheorem
there is a simple beauty to it. The typeface is a bit small for my eyes, but I can live with it.

It's all I can do not to blow a bundle getting the rest of their stuff. The multistage is just so awesome
bsmith


Friend of mine that went to the AH thing last night texted me this - apparently not ready to rock quite yet, but yowza.
noisetheorem
Ill be in my bunk..
oblis
Wow, lovely! love love love
Soundifferent
I was expecting something more eagle-shaped but it makes sense. hihi

Anybody knows if it's standard 3U sized?
oblis
Soundifferent wrote:
I was expecting something more eagle-shaped but it makes sense. hihi

Anybody knows if it's standard 3U sized?


Yes, it appears to be in this skiff. 3U, 84HP
cephalopod
I was hoping the touch keyboard would be 84 hp.
Looks beautiful.
analogueheart
I have been waiting for touch plate keyboard in euro for a long time.
can not wait.
confusional
God damn it, now even I want in on the action. screaming goo yo
goiks
need better demos of the filter and vca please.
bsmith
^^^^^^^
Count Edlington
eek! Verbos isn't fucking around is he? Add some envelope generators, the 257v and you've got a full system. Amazing. I have to say from the small amount of audio going around, the complex osc sounds huge! I think it's time for some more audio those of you who've received your modules Smash!
bsmith
I'd love to see his take on source of uncertainty....
Smokey
Awesome looking touch keybed!

I was contemplating getting a bunch of Pressure Points to make a little easel-style keyboard for the Wretch but this looks like a better solution.

I'm hoping it can output Hz/V for the Wretch.
Kirk Degiorgio
bsmith wrote:
Kirk Degiorgio wrote:
how well does the Complex Osc track over 5 octaves + pretty please?

Solid over 7 octaves here.


thumbs up
de_raaf
its a touch keyboard as close to a keyboard layout, kind of expect it to be more abstract, hopefully it offers different scaling possibilities and stuff
Smokey
de_raaf wrote:
hopefully it offers different scaling possibilities and stuff


I'd love for each "key" to be user tune-able.
chrisso
de_raaf wrote:
its a touch keyboard as close to a keyboard layout, kind of expect it to be more abstract, hopefully it offers different scaling possibilities and stuff


It looks like a classic 200 series keyboard - which fits in with the rest of the Verbos Electronics offerings.
de_raaf
yeah i know, hopefully we see some own inspired stuff too soon or later
ispeakhopelandic
Smokey wrote:
de_raaf wrote:
hopefully it offers different scaling possibilities and stuff


I'd love for each "key" to be user tune-able.


i know the original 218/248 combo allowed for using the 248 for retuneing via stage addressing, i would imagine that somthing similar could be acomplished with these two.
Orson
Damn this Complex Oscillator sounds amazing (especially in bsmith's video) Dead Banana

Might consider this for my main VCO, wish I could try it first but I think I'm going to have to wait for a while before they get distributed in France.
Eureka The Butcher
@goikes I'm getting the vca in on Friday. I'll demo it then
Selador
Eureka The Butcher wrote:
@goikes I'm getting the vca in on Friday. I'll demo it then


You're a saint if you do so. Can you test the vactrol response, see if it can pinged for bongos? The description is slightly unclear if that's possible..

Preemptively, thanks!! we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy
goiks
Eureka The Butcher wrote:
@goikes I'm getting the vca in on Friday. I'll demo it then


thanks! it sounds like it could be something special, but it's hard to tell from just the namm video.
RubberCityNoise
I got a chance to play the Verbos system at NAMM. It was fabulous! My favorite was the harmonic oscillator. The modulation, tilt, and scan sound amazing!
mccolalx
Was there an estimated release timeframe for the keyboard?
bsmith


Allright - so, this came this morning, and here is a little taste... I didn't quite get to where I was trying to go on that last part, but you might get the idea. Yeah it can do *that* deal you're wondering about, and cooler and ringier than is evident in the vid - keep in mind that is just a little 20ms short as it can go envelator envelope hitting it.
The palette with this thing are super broad, more than I thought they'd be by far - hey Eureka The Butcher please do demo when you get yours, would love to hear someone else's take on it, I really only scratched the surface here.
Reupped with the audio dropped a bit but the audio is still a little clippy, aaargh, ah well probably my bad when recording it. Nontheless the thing does sound wicked....
anselmi
bsmith wrote:




sounds very fat and colored, even when it´s open...when closed it´s a little dark but in a way that I don´t hear before in other filters...the bass tones are really round

I found its tone very responsive to the level of the signal


the plucky LPG sounds...vintage? very solid wood tone...I like it

I hear it more distant to the other LPGs out there
bsmith
anselmi wrote:

sounds very fat and colored, even when it´s open...when closed it´s a little dark but in a way that I don´t hear before in other filters...the bass tones are really round

I found its tone very responsive to the level of the signal


the plucky LPG sounds...vintage? very solid wood tone...I like it

I hear it more distant to the other LPGs out there


Totally it rolls off a smidge of top when its opened - there in the beginning when I take the signal (which is just the complex's mod osc saw btw) to the output module you can hear it - had a fft meter up and the bottom fundamental is equal between the filter and the straight osc signal, and yep just a little roll off up top, you can tell listening, it's nice. Hey this is a badass module, kind of reminds me a little of the ma35 (miss 10), but beefier certainly, and the vca is incredibly versatile, having inverting attenuators on both lin and expo on that thing is going to take a bit to get my head wrapped around the possibilities of.
drewskee
bsmith wrote:
I'd love to see his take on source of uncertainty....

+++++1

A 266 variation, a 258 and some standard enevelopes.
Count Edlington
That demo is really impressive, thanks for that and your other one on the complex osc. I have to say the sound, even from a youtube vid bitcrushed to death sounds great. Is there any chance of a soundcloud sample of the recordings you've done bsmith?
Another great module. we're not worthy
jcn7
Does anyone know if the voltage multistage can be clocked externally to run it as 2 osc's...a and b? In fact with a CVa and CVb, I'm wondering if you can clock these independently, or just globally in the clock input?

At any rate, I'm still wondering if this thing could be used as an Osc...and if so, I'm wondering of the quality and flexibility of it's output, VS say the other 2 osc's that Verbos makes.
Selador
Rising ramp wave into the strobe input should do something.. Using a square wave to clock it would result in a pitch 1/8 the frequency. Unless you have every even stage's voltage at max, then a one octave lower square.

I think. hihi
bsmith
Would love to see someone getting down with that multistage - anyone out there who got one care to show it doing a little this and that?

(and thanks count eddington - don't have a central place really, but check out my utube channel i guess, and soundcloud account is bsmith923 - i cleared the decks on it but am slowly beginning to put new trips up)
rydan
bsmith wrote:
I'd love to see his take on source of uncertainty....


Same here!
Eureka The Butcher
Just got the vca in last night. It's been a pretty busy weekend so I haven't really had much time to use it. Ill post a short clip soon
southphillysynths
jawdrop jawdrop jawdrop jawdrop

subultresk
Wow! This stuff is amazing! I was hoping that Mark will come up with own modules. It looks like the beginning of a whole instrument. I don't look at it as being Buchla clones or whatever. It would have been very strange if the new Verbos-modules remind of Roland technology… It's a new interpretation of certain technical ways and i wish it will be Mark's masterpiece!

I really appreciate the discrete build and i love the libidinous wasteful use of space while the depth is only 26mm - this is an instruments interface that asks for being played!
Count Edlington
subultresk wrote:
I really appreciate the discrete build and i love the libidinous wasteful use of space while the depth is only 26mm - this is an instruments interface that asks for being played!


I'm with you all the way there thumbs up
oblis
Count Edlington wrote:
subultresk wrote:
I really appreciate the discrete build and i love the libidinous wasteful use of space while the depth is only 26mm - this is an instruments interface that asks for being played!


I'm with you all the way there thumbs up


Agreed as well. I'm still in the early stages of building my euro system, but the large panels (relatively speaking) really make it feel like a playable instrument (not to mention sounding very nice). I had bought a couple of really popular highly dense modules recently and I just couldn't jive with them...

Here's another pic for the hell of it:

chrisso
Is that the full set?
Nice.
adamon
Very clean set up oblis !

and love kitteh!!!
subultresk
That looks very sweet!
I'll go with the whole line-up as well and ordered it with 2x tone-controller.
bsmith
hell yeah oblis that looks quite nice! w00t w00t
Have the Voltage multistage coming, should have it Wednesday.

Hey hadn't seen this elsewhere in this thread before, more namm stuff, that sounds a bit better than the other namm thing, supercool Gino Robair, who has more than a clue, getting the walkthrough by Mark.


thesnow
subultresk wrote:
That looks very sweet!
I'll go with the whole line-up as well and ordered it with 2x tone-controller.


what would be some advantages of having 2 x tone controller module?
phutureboy
oblis wrote:
Here's another pic for the hell of it:


Hi oblis, wondering where did you find that case ? it looks very nice...
subultresk
thesnow wrote:
subultresk wrote:
That looks very sweet!
I'll go with the whole line-up as well and ordered it with 2x tone-controller.


what would be some advantages of having 2 x tone controller module?


it must not be an advantage, but it's a second VCA/LPG.
thesnow
subultresk wrote:
thesnow wrote:
subultresk wrote:
That looks very sweet!
I'll go with the whole line-up as well and ordered it with 2x tone-controller.


what would be some advantages of having 2 x tone controller module?


it must not be an advantage, but it's a second VCA/LPG.


well that I already knew lol thanks
Count Edlington
oblis wrote:
Count Edlington wrote:
subultresk wrote:
I really appreciate the discrete build and i love the libidinous wasteful use of space while the depth is only 26mm - this is an instruments interface that asks for being played!


I'm with you all the way there thumbs up


Agreed as well. I'm still in the early stages of building my euro system, but the large panels (relatively speaking) really make it feel like a playable instrument (not to mention sounding very nice). I had bought a couple of really popular highly dense modules recently and I just couldn't jive with them...

Here's another pic for the hell of it:



Yeah I saw your pictures in the system pictures thread. Very nice way to start love Are you planning on sticking with only Verbos stuff?
oblis
Thanks All!

phutureboy wrote:

Hi oblis, wondering where did you find that case ? it looks very nice...


It's a Goike walnut 9u...the man does excellent work!

Count Edlington wrote:

Yeah I saw your pictures in the system pictures thread. Very nice way to start love Are you planning on sticking with only Verbos stuff?


The plan is to be primarily Verbos with some doepfer utilities and extras as needed...I just added a doepfer reverb and will add another tone controller and multistage next.
goiks
glad you like it oblis, looks like a great start! my doepfer reverb will be in the same 6u with these very same modules too, classic.

here's another short video tease. http://instagram.com/p/j6Ni1nMmYW/

the high chirpy sounds are the complex osc, at the right combinations of frequencies it's possible to get very liquidy, like you would normally expect from a resonant filter. everything else is the harmonic osc being modulated to accent different harmonics on the beat (with a bit of fm from the complex osc modulation osc)
phutureboy
thanx
Count Edlington
goiks wrote:
glad you like it oblis, looks like a great start! my doepfer reverb will be in the same 6u with these very same modules too, classic.

here's another short video tease. http://instagram.com/p/j6Ni1nMmYW/

the high chirpy sounds are the complex osc, at the right combinations of frequencies it's possible to get very liquidy, like you would normally expect from a resonant filter. everything else is the harmonic osc being modulated to accent different harmonics on the beat (with a bit of fm from the complex osc modulation osc)


Great patch we're not worthy can't wait to hear more.
flabby
Back to the top with this thread!!

Any more demos of the Complex VCO + VCA?

FM demos?
low end sounds?
kid_kozmoz
^2nded. I'm planning my first modular, which will in all likelihood heavily feature those two--and I would also add a request for the Dual Four Pole. hyper
nokings
oblis
what a cute kitty.

goiks
that is a beautiful sound. really making the case for this set up.
12stepsequencer
I just got the Complex last night. It's great- I need to try more patches without my Koma SVF and record a good clean demo.


That video makes me want to recklessly go buy the Harmonic and the Voltage Multistage (almost went for the Harmonic but I don't have a DPO or any other oscillator like that and I decided to "save money").
facklr
This is the best overview I've seen so far. And there is zero NAMMnoise. Just the sound of perfect modules.

Nelson Baboon
I'm really loving these Verbos modules. I have the final piece of the set (the vca thing) arriving tomorrow. Especially these + the makenoise stuff makes me very happy and surprised that I've found Euro again.
facklr
Bam. I just bought the Complex Oscillator.

I'm in bed, I'm sleepy, and I just spent 600.00 dollars.

But something tells me I'll have sweet dreams.

The Chewbacca Defense The Chewbacca Defense The Chewbacca Defense
12stepsequencer
facklr wrote:
Bam. I just bought the Complex Oscillator.

I'm in bed, I'm sleepy, and I just spent 600.00 dollars.

But something tells me I'll have sweet dreams.

The Chewbacca Defense The Chewbacca Defense The Chewbacca Defense


Not a chance you'll regret. It's a great one and it's making me look around my studio to decide what to sell to get the Voltage Generator and the Harmonic...
arnoux
Nelson Baboon wrote:
I'm really loving these Verbos modules. I have the final piece of the set (the vca thing) arriving tomorrow. Especially these + the makenoise stuff makes me very happy and surprised that I've found Euro again.


Yes indeed I'd go for this skiff with a ribbon controller in front of it.



Crazy impossible ammount of cash tho.
Funky40
no "real" filter demos so far ? seriously, i just don't get it
would like to hear some screech and growl of the 4pole




also wondering about the VCA. Much interested. A thought:
if i patch a signal thru a lets say EXP VCA, modulated by LFO/VCO, then thru LIN VCA, modulated by envelope,
is the result the same as having both modulation sources on a Verbos VCA with its two CV inputs ?
i´d guess yes, right ?

personally not so "fixated" if a VCA is all discret or not.
........to me its all about Response curves / responsiviness in first place.
Ginko
I'm just dropping a post so I can keep tabs on this thread hihi
jcn7
Here is what Monday will bring...



http://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/75918



I'm planning on using my Korg Microbrute to augment this...in fact my Korg Microbrute is the center of each of my 3 lunchbox systems and now this small Verbos system. I still need to make a case for it, but will make it red to match the knobs...
oliver69
Any info of Mark brining them to europe?
ignatius
oliver69 wrote:
Any info of Mark brining them to europe?


so far it seems they're exclusively available at AH seriously, i just don't get it
bsmith
burnn_out!
Bsmith that's beautiful! we're not worthy I just order the complex osc and multistage. I love me some complex oscillators. H.donut, dpo, and now this. I came close to getting the harmonic osc but was kinda digging the sound of the complex more. Now it's a battle between harmonic osc, Atlantis, and ssf monolith. Running out of room 3 voices enter, 1 voice leaves... Dead Banana Dead Banana
thetwlo
ignatius wrote:
oliver69 wrote:
Any info of Mark brining them to europe?


so far it seems they're exclusively available at AH seriously, i just don't get it


i think that's only for now, for the initial release. So I heard.
Seemed odd that MeMe Antenna wouldn't have first as they're in Brooklyn.
ignatius
thetwlo wrote:
ignatius wrote:
oliver69 wrote:
Any info of Mark brining them to europe?


so far it seems they're exclusively available at AH seriously, i just don't get it


i think that's only for now, for the initial release. So I heard.
Seemed odd that MeMe Antenna wouldn't have first as they're in Brooklyn.


perhaps AH is more deeply involved in some way 8_)
thetwlo
ignatius wrote:

perhaps AH is more deeply involved in some way 8_)

yes, Shawn may have made this happen.
Umcorps
oliver69 wrote:
Any info of Mark brining them to europe?


Schneiders are working on it. Don't know if anyone else is.
ignatius
Umcorps wrote:
oliver69 wrote:
Any info of Mark brining them to europe?


Schneiders are working on it. Don't know if anyone else is.


what kind of brine are they going to use? Mr. Green
mooneh
oliver69 wrote:
Any info of Mark brining them to europe?


I asked mark verbos in a mail, he thought it would take a few months before they were available in Europe.
Selador
Is anyone else's Dual Four Pole picking up immense amount of buss feedback? very frustrating

For some reason, I can hear my clocks, background echoes of Braids (I hear differences in the noise when I switch modes), and even my clock going through the filter all at once. Strange part being that I can close the filter and it's gone. Anyone have any clue as to what can cause that? seriously, i just don't get it
ignatius
have you tried a different place in your case? seriously, i just don't get it
sprout23
Selador wrote:
Is anyone else's Dual Four Pole picking up immense amount of buss feedback? very frustrating

For some reason, I can hear my clocks, background echoes of Braids (I hear differences in the noise when I switch modes), and even my clock going through the filter all at once. Strange part being that I can close the filter and it's gone. Anyone have any clue as to what can cause that? seriously, i just don't get it


Yes I'm getting this also, I wasn't sure if it was my power supply causing it or not, I also moved it around in my case and still can hear it. Dont know, its not very loud but something I noticed right away.
Selador
I moved it around and plugged it into another power supply.. No clue why this noise is there. It makes it unusable..
mayanspring
Selador wrote:
I moved it around and plugged it into another power supply.. No clue why this noise is there. It makes it unusable..


I would take it off your hands thumbs up
chrisso
Selador wrote:
I moved it around and plugged it into another power supply.. No clue why this noise is there. It makes it unusable..


Drop Mark an email. At least he's not too far away if it's a fault with your module.
bg1979
wonder how long till AH has stock again for the Harmonic OSC?

so excited for that one and didn't have the cash to get it on the first go, but do now!
ignatius
bg1979 wrote:
wonder how long till AH has stock again for the Harmonic OSC?


it's a mystery meh razz

"verbos electronics
harmonic oscillator

pre-order available 2.14.14"

http://www.analoguehaven.com/verboselectronics/harmonicoscillator/
Federico
Does the Verbos filter sound "fat", and "Moog-like"?
I have an MMG right now but would love to get something with a deeper sound.
Selador
I'll let you know and do an extensive demo of the filter when I either figure out what's wrong with mine or get it repaired..
bg1979
ignatius wrote:
bg1979 wrote:
wonder how long till AH has stock again for the Harmonic OSC?


it's a mystery meh razz

"verbos electronics
harmonic oscillator

pre-order available 2.14.14"

http://www.analoguehaven.com/verboselectronics/harmonicoscillator/




yes but i do believe that run may already be spoken for as well
jcn7
I just received my Harmonic Generator and Voltage Multistage tonight, and here is my first run with them...the HG is going through a MN MMG filter and then into a Doepfer Spring reverb...

I will say that I've never seen this high of quality and attention to detail in a Euro module before...these are 1st class all the way!


Here is a quick example:


http://soundcloud.com/jcn7/verbos-filtered-harmonic
rockwoofstone
My Verbos modules arrived yesterday, and I found myself scratching my head a bit over the Complex Osc last night, specifically the FM...

As the modulation oscillator appears to be unipolar (0-10v), as soon as you increase the mod index, the primary harmonic of the main osc shifts up as well. So, whilst I can set the modulation level for FM, then play notes musically with the main osc, as soon as I change the mod index, the main osc shifts to somewhere I don't want it.

Any ideas or hints from anyone that don't involve me bypassing the mod bus, and offsetting the modulation osc output first of all, then feeding back into the lin FM input on the main osc?
oliver69
mooneh wrote:
oliver69 wrote:
Any info of Mark brining them to europe?


I asked mark verbos in a mail, he thought it would take a few months before they were available in Europe.


Ah I see, thanks! Guess it will give me time to save up! nanners
bsmith
rockwoofstone wrote:
As the modulation oscillator appears to be unipolar (0-10v), as soon as you increase the mod index, the primary harmonic of the main osc shifts up as well. So, whilst I can set the modulation level for FM, then play notes musically with the main osc, as soon as I change the mod index, the main osc shifts to somewhere I don't want it.

Any ideas or hints from anyone that don't involve me bypassing the mod bus, and offsetting the modulation osc output first of all, then feeding back into the lin FM input on the main osc?


My understanding of the oscillator that the Complex Osc is clearly patterned upon - the revered Buchla 259 - is that this same behavior, the shifting of the fundamental as the modulation index is raised, occurs. I understand where you might be coming from - in other dual fm oscs we've gotten to use in euro such as the hertz donut and fmvdo, the internal fm works in such a manner that the fundamental more or less maintains, but this is not the case with the buchla osc this dude is based on as far as I know. Believe the 258 does that same deal as well - my j3rk ones certainly do.
I've been running whatever v/oct cv I'm feeding to it through a cvp and once I've got timbre design happening using the the cvp to offset the pitch back to where I want it. On one of my cvp's I've changed one of the resistors to clamp down the offset to +/- 1v (ish) as opposed to 5v - gives me a finer control of getting pitch dialed in.
But also check out using the main osc's fm input and patching it over as opposed to using the internal bus - it's a bit different response (on mine at least) and may be more what you're after.
rockwoofstone
bsmith Yeah - I thought this was purely down to the similar behaviours on the 259/261, but was just hoping there was some magic unicorn dust I could sprinkle!

I noticed that the external FM patching behaves differently - much more fine control of that, as you say.

I suppose one way of looking at it is that I embrace, rather than try to work around this behaviour, and see where it takes me!

Interesting about your 258s - on both my 258Js, I only get the fundamental shifting when I increase the FM over around 25- 33%. Up to that point, I get a good workable level of FM, and no fundamental shift. Above that, it does the same as the 259/261/Complex Osc, but below, works wonderfully musically. Wonder what the difference is in our builds?
bsmith
Yeah my 258 build maintains up to about 25% as well and then off it goes.
And there ya go, embrace this monster, it's just amazing. And if you have a cvp and want to check out what I was talking about with finer control on pitch - I used 240k in place of the 33k and that's working for me, about an octave and a semitone swing. And also, there is a Verbos 254v in buchla-land and you can bet your boots that we'll eventually get something similar from him in euro.
And just to point out - when you say 259/261 - I think you are maybe referring to the e series stuff - which in fact maintain the fundamental ala hd or fmvdo I'm pretty sure - not what this dude is based on, it's going after the original 259....
rockwoofstone
bsmith wrote:
And just to point out - when you say 259/261 - I think you are maybe referring to the e series stuff - which in fact maintain the fundamental ala hd or fmvdo I'm pretty sure - not what this dude is based on, it's going after the original 259....


Ah - you're probably right - dodgy memory failing me there!
DonKartofflo
furthrrr generator does this as well, it is by design though as they told me because the old complex vcos did this as well like bsmith said.
nomass
Doesn't through zero fm ensure that the pitch doesn't go wonky.

I gather the Verbos doesn't do through zero, so if you want the pitch to stay the same in fm, this isn't the module for the job.
rydan
nomass wrote:
Doesn't through zero fm ensure that the pitch doesn't go wonky.

I gather the Verbos doesn't do through zero, so if you want the pitch to stay the same in fm, this isn't the module for the job.


As long as you do not modulate past zero Hz, regular Linear FM will be enough for the perceived pitch to remain the same (as long as the modulator's equally distributed around zero, that is no DC offset or 70/30 duty cycle pulse waves).

If you want deeper modulation than that, you'll need TZFM. However, if the modulator has an offset (or if the modbus uses exponential FM instead of linear) then you'll get perceived pitch drift regardless.
bsmith
Allright y'all, a little PSA on both the 4 pole filter and complex osc:
So that filter thing - I was concerned about this as well, that high pass side was picking up all kinds of stuff off the bus, and so I communicated with him about it, and he was aware that it was a problem and has a solution which will be implemented going forward.
The complex osc, he is saying the he has got the index control a bit more gradual, and faster, and new ones going out will have this change.
He says he'll be happy to fix them for anybody who has these modules already.
There's a contact form there on the verbos electronics site. so that's probably a good place to start if you'd like to have him make these changes on modules already out there.
Selador
To add to bsmith's response:

Mark not only got back to my inquiry last night (at midnight, no less!) but also said he'll have it shipped out the day he receives it. we're not worthy

If his designs didn't already have me sold, wonderful customer service would have. Like Shawn's DARPA-grade packing tape bank vaults, a little extra goes a long way. applause
chrisso
Yeah, he's a good guy
Funky40
to 4pole owners:

my Frequenzy Knobs seemed not to work, felt defective.
Now when i add CVs or CV offset the Freq Knob is working. Same on both, the HP and LP.
Then, i have to add a massive amount of negative offset, 8V, that the frequenzy pot will act, and covering the range i would expect.
can anybody please confirm that this is normal behave, or is my module broke ?
......bevore i contact Mark Verbos......


The sound is great ! All i would have wanted.
I compared to motm490-DIY / Motm 440-DIY / Fritz Threeler-DIY / Corgasmatron mkII. Interesting experience.....

for the bleed there is workaround, but the FreqKnob behave is strange hmmm..... ......please ? !
bsmith
Wow Funky40, mine and the other I've had my hands on sure didn't have that knob deal going on, knobs felt great and worked as expected, just had that high pass side bus bleed. I'm sure you understand there is a normal from the high pass out to the low pass - and not seeing how that would be causing what you're talking about anyway... You probably want to get that particular unit to Mark, may be some issues that aren't of a systemic nature going on with it.
Funky40
great, Thanks for feeback !
Yeah, aware of the normalisation.
Just mailed Mark

i´ve put my unit after first bleed tests on a 15V PSU with a DIY 12V regulator connected to one port. bleed was gonne.
shit, sending to the US is expensive !
finally the unit was more thought to check up against my arsenal of DIY filters, then to sell.
.....well, soundwise it is on the fence to say: "hell, keep it"
there is something to it, that my other Filters don´t deliver. Its subtle, but still directly recognizable
sprout23
Funky40, my knobs are all working fine, I'm just having a little bleed thru that bsmith is having.
bsmith
Just got my filter back from Mark making tweaks to it - the bus noise deal is much much better, not like completely clean but a 90% improvement. The Resonance on the low pass has been juiced up a bit too, which is quite nice. This module is awesome.
subultresk
bsmith wrote:
Just got my filter back from Mark making tweaks to it - the bus noise deal is much much better, not like completely clean but a 90% improvement. The Resonance on the low pass has been juiced up a bit too, which is quite nice. This module is awesome.


That's great news! thumbs up
flabby
I know the complex VCO is its own thing but how are you guys fining it? Do you find that it leans more to the 259 sound in that it needs plenty of modulation to get into the timbres or does it have that 258 'richness'?
Funky40
got very rapidly a answer from Mark.
my unit has to go on hollydays to NYC ......
bsmith

Just messing around with the 4 pole filter - this one got back from Mark tweaking it yesterday.
exmd
I've been using the Complex VCO for a few days and really like it. It certainly can do the bongo buchla sound but its quite versatile. Here's a couple samples. Please note that I was hammerred while recording these. smile

This is one where I essentially just had the Complex VCO running a straight sequence and the Intellijel Planar modulating the harmonics section (timbre, etc). I was amazed at the variety of sounds I could get.

[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/135235998" params="color=ff5500&auto_play=false&show_artwork=true&show_playcount= true&show_comments=true" width="100%" height="81" iframe="false" /]

This one is just a couple of short jams exploring the module. Uses some outboard delays and effects.

[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/135236956" params="color=ff5500&auto_play=false&show_artwork=true&show_playcount= true&show_comments=true" width="100%" height="81" iframe="false" /]
freeyerheel
great demo's lip service shows that the oscillator can get pretty expressive, i really like the rawness of the twinkie one as well. i cant wait to get ahold of some of his modules!!
subultresk
bsmith wrote:
Just messing around with the 4 pole filter.


Sounds great and very promising! Thanks for the video! thumbs up
(i also like the Richter Osc!)
exmd
freeyerheel wrote:
great demo's lip service shows that the oscillator can get pretty expressive, i really like the rawness of the twinkie one as well. i cant wait to get ahold of some of his modules!!


Thanks. It has a ahuge range of tones. I got some awesome bongo sounds the other night but I can't remember how I did it. DAMNIT! very frustrating
eole
bsmith wrote:
Just messing around with the 4 pole filter - this one got back from Mark tweaking it yesterday.


wow ! first time i really want a filter since i entered eurorack smile
flabby
Cheers for the demos exmd! What VCA were you using?

The complex VCO sounds like it really wants to kick you in the teeth…in a good way! Kinda clean and aggressive at the same time.
exmd
I was using Linix.

This is a quick little demo of some more of the percussive tones you can get out of it. I had the perfect Bongo sound the other day and I can't seem to get it back.

This is only the Verbos into the Linix VCA with the gate controlled by Channel 1 of a Maths. Note no reverb or delay was added. You can get some cool almost slapback tones using FM.

[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/135333533" params="color=ff5500&auto_play=false&show_artwork=true&show_playcount= true&show_comments=true" width="100%" height="81" iframe="false" /]
anselmi
flabby wrote:
I know the complex VCO is its own thing but how are you guys fining it? Do you find that it leans more to the 259 sound in that it needs plenty of modulation to get into the timbres or does it have that 258 'richness'?


for me it´s more 259 than 258...I don´t hear the 258´s juicy tones in any of the complex oscillator´s demos

I also love to see Mark release an "official" euro version of his 258v...this oscillator is killer
ddoyen
anselmi wrote:


I also love to see Mark release an "official" euro version of his 258v...this oscillator is killer



oh it so is. i finally got my dual 258j working correctly recently and its tits.
FSK1138
i really love the look of these units
- i like Buchla ... but don't have Buchla monies waah
freeyerheel
i imagine a fair number of us are in that boat without enough cash and euro seems to scratch the itch just fine for most of the tones depending on what it is your trying to do. i use to lust after buchla and dont really think the grass is much greener anymore. if i won the lottery i might have to get one, and a serge, and a fenix, and and and....... ems, some expensive tube synth that i could ask eric barbour to make for me and give him most of my winnings! im glad im satisfied with my synth i havent even bought a module since the echophone there should be some kind of a chip like AA has for alcoholics for that. keep comin back!
anselmi
ddoyen wrote:
oh it so is. i finally got my dual 258j working correctly recently and its tits.


I asked Dustin to buidl one for me, but still waiting for a reply ...do you have a demo of it? I´d love to hear some bass and FM action SlayerBadger!
bsmith
A little messing around with the Harmonic Osc & Voltage Multistage (among other things). Have a little FM going on with a couple of the Harmonic Osc's individual sine outs and coming back to the FM in, via a fonik switch which is where that occasional slewy intonation is coming from. Wogglebug Addressed Voltage multistage is modulating the Harmonic Osc's center, a (euclidean) Pam triggered Maths is diddling its width...

jcn7
bsmith wrote:
A little messing around with the Harmonic Osc & Voltage Multistage (among other things). Have a little FM going on with a couple of the Harmonic Osc's individual sine outs and coming back to the FM in, via a fonik switch which is where that occasional slewy intonation is coming from. Wogglebug Addressed Voltage multistage is modulating the Harmonic Osc's center, a (euclidean) Pam triggered Maths is diddling its width...



Beautiful! Well done!

I only have the 2 Verbos modules...(Harmonic G and Voltage M) but here are a couple of examples done with these 2 (on another thread as well)

1) http://soundcloud.com/jcn7/verbos-bass-line

2) http://soundcloud.com/jcn7/vebos-hg-and-vm
Nelson Baboon
bsmith wrote:
Allright y'all, a little PSA on both the 4 pole filter and complex osc:
So that filter thing - I was concerned about this as well, that high pass side was picking up all kinds of stuff off the bus, and so I communicated with him about it, and he was aware that it was a problem and has a solution which will be implemented going forward.
The complex osc, he is saying the he has got the index control a bit more gradual, and faster, and new ones going out will have this change.
He says he'll be happy to fix them for anybody who has these modules already.
There's a contact form there on the verbos electronics site. so that's probably a good place to start if you'd like to have him make these changes on modules already out there.


ok - this must be what I'm encountering. It is quite dramatic, what I'm experiencing now. patching the sound directly into the lp seems to get rid of it, though somehow going through the amplitude and tone controller seems to leave a bit of it. And the funny thing is that tonight's session is the first time I"ve encountered it. Weird.
Selador
Those of you who have gotten their Four Poles back, is this how yours behaves post-op?



I really, really, really want to love it, considering the tone controller is hands down the most impressive sounding expanded VCA, just absolutely crystal clear, and it seems such a shame to compromise that clarity..
awoke
That noise in the vid sounds pretty extreme. Is that normal or is it a dirty power supply?
Selador
Nope, the power supply (Make Noise) and case (Goike) in mention are literally a day old, and it was similar, but worse and present throughout the hipass range before sending it back in when it was in my old case powered by TipTop Zeus rev. 2.
thetwlo
so it's a linear PSU?
Selador
The manual says "greener than most linear power supplies", and Zeus was switching, however.
mayanspring
just got a verbos 4pole. it really is one of the most "vintage" feeling filters I have had yet in euro. I guess the lack of IC's in the signal path counts for something. it is a bit harder to use and more unpredictable than your average euro filter. the highpass definitely is hissing on my monorocket + makenoise power... but I kind of like the hiss... like a tape hiss... a sound of its own.
bsmith
Y'all that have both the harmonic osc and the complex osc check this out - run the harmonic oscs' mix out into the complex osc's low/high input and start screwing around with the low/high and cv atten inputs, and the harmonic oscs sliders. Monitor the complex osc's output. When I've got the pitch of the harmonic osc close to the complex I'm getting pretty close to it acting an awful lot like a straight up graphic eq, non relative pitches on the harmonic osc are causing all manner of freakiness to occur.
exper
Selador wrote:
The manual says "greener than most linear power supplies", and Zeus was switching, however.


The make noise is switching. Does that whining sound come out of other modules or just the filter? I had a similar whine and high noise floor from my make noise busboard but it came out of nearly every module. Extremely frustrating.
lollz
For complex osc users,
Are all of LFO and Square outputs positive voltage only?
bsmith
lollz wrote:
For complex osc users,
Are all of LFO and Square outputs positive voltage only?

That's how mine are - all mod osc outs are above 0, as well as the square on the primary osc. The master, sine, and triangle outs on the primary side are bipolar.
drxcm
exper wrote:
Selador wrote:
The manual says "greener than most linear power supplies", and Zeus was switching, however.


The make noise is switching. Does that whining sound come out of other modules or just the filter? I had a similar whine and high noise floor from my make noise busboard but it came out of nearly every module. Extremely frustrating.


I remember reading in the main Verbos thread that the whine from the dual filter high-pass side is ubiquitous.
Selador
It's not ubiquitous, at least not with all power supplies, just with switching, such is the case with my MN and the Zeus I also used. It looks like Doepfer and Elby powered systems have no problems.
bsmith
^
I think what was really common was it picking up junk on the bus from other modules on the high pass side - like on mine I pulled all the oscs off to another bus and still had a whine, and that turned out to be coming from an a-156 on the same bus. When I moved that it got much quieter. He's addressed this to a large extent in the new builds and will tweak yours if you have an older one. Still some bus noise that comes through afterwards but it is much much better.
regardless
I recently had this issue, I was using the filter in a Monorocket 9u case. It was mostly on the high pass end and a lot of times not really bad per say sounding but it wasn't right cause with high pass all the way up it was really loud. I had read the deal with the Doepfer case so I attempted to switch my filter to my A-100 case. Sure enough the filter sounds like a completely different unit. I modulated and used it heavy for a while tonight and nothing poped back up on the high pass side. Full sweeps crystal clear on both ends


I emailed Mark to let him know that it resolved my issue, I had actually sent it too him. He thought he fixed it and sent back. It still happened, than it worked on the move.
ununseptium
Anyone in the UK managing to source these modules yet? I'm really keen to order some but nowhere but AH has them in stock. Anyone know if AH ship to the UK?
sundog
Schneiders stocking them shortly....
http://www.schneidersladen.de/en/manufacturer/verbos.html
ununseptium
sundog wrote:
Schneiders stocking them shortly....
http://www.schneidersladen.de/en/manufacturer/verbos.html


Yeah, they've been promising for a couple of weeks...
The money's burning a hole in my pocket. If I leave it much longer something life-threatening is going to take financial priority. very frustrating
chrisso
ununseptium wrote:
Anyone know if AH ship to the UK?


I'm sure they do.
Quite a few of the modules have already turned up in the BST section here. Why not buy used?
ununseptium
chrisso wrote:
ununseptium wrote:
Anyone know if AH ship to the UK?


I'm sure they do.
Quite a few of the modules have already turned up in the BST section here. Why not buy used?


I have no problem with buying used. Anyone selling? BTW what does BST stand for?
ben_hex
ununseptium wrote:
I have no problem with buying used. Anyone selling? BTW what does BST stand for?


Buy, sell, trade. All in that section of muffs. Here's the sell/trade section -
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=51
ununseptium
ben_hex wrote:
ununseptium wrote:
I have no problem with buying used. Anyone selling? BTW what does BST stand for?


Buy, sell, trade. All in that section of muffs. Here's the sell/trade section -
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=51


Ah, thanks, Ben. I've posted a WTB in that section.
Cheers,
Alan
mayanspring
Is it at all strange that a harmonic oscillator's FM seems to move at a slew? like when you turn the att on top of the fm input, it seems that the fm follows your moves at a slow slew... too slow for a vactrol in the signal path almost, not to mention that I don't see any back there.

it is certainly a kind of cool effect, but might be hard to get a bell tone out of.

is this normal for anyone else?
Ginko
has anyone seen any news on the capacitive keys yet?
darwingrosse
Ginko wrote:
has anyone seen any news on the capacitive keys yet?


A slight reveal toward the end here:

http://artmusictech.libsyn.com/podcast-027-mark-verbos
Ginko
darwingrosse wrote:
Ginko wrote:
has anyone seen any news on the capacitive keys yet?


A slight reveal toward the end here:

http://artmusictech.libsyn.com/podcast-027-mark-verbos


Thanks! That was a good listen! thumbs up
ununseptium
Anyone heard any more rumours about a forthcoming envelope such as seems to be suggested in this interview?
mritenburg
ununseptium wrote:
Anyone heard any more rumours about a forthcoming envelope such as seems to be suggested in this interview?


If the development and release of a Verbos envelope is anything like the currently available modules, there will be no teases or rumors, then it will be available for purchase the same day it is officially announced as available.

That said, I am very eager to learn more about it and his touch plate controller.
slavetothesync
Just built my first case/voice using a complex osc. My past experience is with an EMU system and I got spoiled by some amazing osc and filters on that thing. I am happy with the Verbos osc, sounds sexy and has great range!
ununseptium
Good point Mritenburg. However, if anyone from the Verbos camp is listening, being a bit more forthcoming about forthcoming releases will encourage me to hold some money back for them.
ununseptium
I'm still waiting for mine to be dispatched by Analogue Haven. I've ordered all but the VCA. Still saving my pennies for that. Really looking forward to hearing what these can do.
mritenburg
ununseptium wrote:
I've ordered all but the VCA.


The ATC is definitely a versatile module. It does the standard low pass gate sound perfectly. As a resonant low pass filter it is quite nice. I will say that it probably takes up more real estate than it needs to, or it could have been a dual module and still meet the ergonomics of the system.
ununseptium
Good to hear your appraisal. I'm determined to be completest about this system anyway. I think they've all come in for a bit of real estate criticism, mind. Although I quite like the idea of one big, red, easily found knob to tackle the overall volume output.
jcn7
Maybe a bit unconventional due to size, but I decided to put my Verbos modules into 2 lunchbox systems...and I really like them this way!


1) The Harmonic Generator system.

2) The Voltage Multistage/Amp tone controller system.

Both systems seen here:











...and in relation to the "mother ship" on the wall (this houses a bunch of other modules that can be used in conjunction with the smaller lunchbox systems)






Here are a few examples from these Lunchbox systems...

1) http://soundcloud.com/jcn7/verbos-turing-machine-jam-1-buchla-ish
2) http://soundcloud.com/jcn7/verbos-rhythm-section-1
3) http://soundcloud.com/jcn7/verbos-lbx2-groove-2
4) http://soundcloud.com/jcn7/pittsburgh-lpg-example-1 (this was using the Harmonic generator Lunch box)


...and yes, I'd love to be able to add the Verbos touch keyboard when it comes out to add to these...
jvt
mritenburg wrote:

... It does the standard low pass gate sound perfectly. As a resonant low pass filter it is quite nice.

I can never quite get that signature LPG vactrol ring. I'm wondering if there isn't some patching technique/control setting that I'm missing?
jcn7
jvt wrote:
mritenburg wrote:

... It does the standard low pass gate sound perfectly. As a resonant low pass filter it is quite nice.

I can never quite get that signature LPG vactrol ring. I'm wondering if there isn't some patching technique/control setting that I'm missing?


I had the best of luck using the new Pittsburgh LPG that I put into my Verbos harmonic Generator lunchbox system...

Here is that example...see what you think...I think it sounds pretty close to the Buchla sound.

http://soundcloud.com/jcn7/pittsburgh-lpg-example-1

I think from what I've read that the Verbos Amp/tone controller can do this, but I haven't had as much success with it as I have with the Pittsburgh LPG.
ununseptium
jcn7 wrote:
Maybe a bit unconventional due to size, but I decided to put my Verbos modules into 2 lunchbox systems...and I really like them this way!




Your lunchboxes look great but what are you using as a power supply for these?
jcn7
ununseptium wrote:
jcn7 wrote:
Maybe a bit unconventional due to size, but I decided to put my Verbos modules into 2 lunchbox systems...and I really like them this way!




Your lunchboxes look great but what are you using as a power supply for these?


These are the Ethanvar lunchbox systems that come with their own power supplies as seen here:

http://erthenvar.com/store/lunchbox

These are great small systems that Ethanvar puts out.
ununseptium
Ah! Yes they do look handy. I'm just about to do a conversion job on a rather cool, retro briefcase and I was wondering about alternatives to the TipTop zeus with flying bus. It might be the perfect fit for this Verbos system.
scottmoon
Those lunch boxes are cute but where you gonna pack your lunch?
jcn7
scottmoon wrote:
Those lunch boxes are cute but where you gonna pack your lunch?


Ah...yes, good point! ... well I tend to go out to eat lunch... hihi
mritenburg
jvt wrote:
mritenburg wrote:

... It does the standard low pass gate sound perfectly. As a resonant low pass filter it is quite nice.

I can never quite get that signature LPG vactrol ring. I'm wondering if there isn't some patching technique/control setting that I'm missing?


I get the best results using MN Maths v2 to open the ATC. If you have an audio clip or video clip with the sound you have in mind post it and I can suggest some patching approaches to replicate the sound.
J3RK
mayanspring wrote:
Is it at all strange that a harmonic oscillator's FM seems to move at a slew? like when you turn the att on top of the fm input, it seems that the fm follows your moves at a slow slew... too slow for a vactrol in the signal path almost, not to mention that I don't see any back there.

it is certainly a kind of cool effect, but might be hard to get a bell tone out of.

is this normal for anyone else?


If the internals are anything like the 258, there is a fairly large AC coupling cap on the Linear FM input. I believe this is partly responsible for that slew. (if indeed these are set up similarly)
jvt
jcn7 wrote:

I had the best of luck using the new Pittsburgh LPG that I put into my Verbos harmonic Generator lunchbox system...

Here is that example...see what you think...I think it sounds pretty close to the Buchla sound.

http://soundcloud.com/jcn7/pittsburgh-lpg-example-1

I think from what I've read that the Verbos Amp/tone controller can do this, but I haven't had as much success with it as I have with the Pittsburgh LPG.

Actually that sounds pretty nice! The few demos I'd heard didn't really showcase it's low pass gate properties. Thanks for posting.
jvt
mritenburg wrote:

I get the best results using MN Maths v2 to open the ATC. If you have an audio clip or video clip with the sound you have in mind post it and I can suggest some patching approaches to replicate the sound.

I went back and tried a different approach. Key was setting the Amplitude to max and cutoff to min. Switching to a couple of other gate sources (a Doepfer A171-2 or a Blue Lantern gate-to-trigger) seemed to get what I was after. No doubt there are probably other envelopes that could work (but they're all in different cases in a different room). The other envelope I was using before didn't seem to cut it.
ununseptium
jvt wrote:
jcn7 wrote:

I had the best of luck using the new Pittsburgh LPG that I put into my Verbos harmonic Generator lunchbox system...

Here is that example...see what you think...I think it sounds pretty close to the Buchla sound.

http://soundcloud.com/jcn7/pittsburgh-lpg-example-1

I think from what I've read that the Verbos Amp/tone controller can do this, but I haven't had as much success with it as I have with the Pittsburgh LPG.

Actually that sounds pretty nice! The few demos I'd heard didn't really showcase it's low pass gate properties. Thanks for posting.


Liking this a lot! I was really keen on the Verbos amp & tone controller, but this sounds good. Can the Verbos match it?
oblis
FYI, there's a couple of new videos of the touch keyboard over on the Verbos Electronics facebook page...I'm not sure how to link them over here. Looks like good progress, though Guinness ftw!
ununseptium
Aha! Thanks for that oblis. I'll pop over and have a look now.
Taylor
Does anyone know if the Harmonic Generator's amplitude CV inputs are fast enough for audio rate modulation?
jcn7
ununseptium wrote:
jvt wrote:
jcn7 wrote:

I had the best of luck using the new Pittsburgh LPG that I put into my Verbos harmonic Generator lunchbox system...

Here is that example...see what you think...I think it sounds pretty close to the Buchla sound.

http://soundcloud.com/jcn7/pittsburgh-lpg-example-1

I think from what I've read that the Verbos Amp/tone controller can do this, but I haven't had as much success with it as I have with the Pittsburgh LPG.

Actually that sounds pretty nice! The few demos I'd heard didn't really showcase it's low pass gate properties. Thanks for posting.


Liking this a lot! I was really keen on the Verbos amp & tone controller, but this sounds good. Can the Verbos match it?




I really like the Verbos amp/tone controller, but I just haven't quite figured out how to get the same type of results as the Pittsburgh LPG. The Pittsburgh LPG rules IMHO...
mritenburg
Taylor wrote:
Does anyone know if the Harmonic Generator's amplitude CV inputs are fast enough for audio rate modulation?



Which input(s) do you consider amplitude modulation on the harmonic oscillator? You can definitely audio rate mod both 'width' and 'center.'
Ginko
oblis wrote:
FYI, there's a couple of new videos of the touch keyboard over on the Verbos Electronics facebook page...I'm not sure how to link them over here. Looks like good progress, though Guinness ftw!


I spotted that, exciting stuff!
Taylor
mritenburg wrote:
Taylor wrote:
Does anyone know if the Harmonic Generator's amplitude CV inputs are fast enough for audio rate modulation?



Which input(s) do you consider amplitude modulation on the harmonic oscillator? You can definitely audio rate mod both 'width' and 'center.'


My understanding is that each jack below the sliders is like a VCA for that harmonic. Is that not right? What I'm wondering is if, for example, I could connect the individual output for the highest harmonic to the CV input for the lowest harmonic and get some kind of in-tune ring modulation-type sounds.

Sounds like that should be possible if the center and width controls handle audio rate. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't a bunch of vactrols controlling the VC mixer.
scottmoon
Here's the link to Verbos Electronics on Facebook. 2 videos of the new keyboard are posted. I can't wait.

https://www.facebook.com/verboselectronics

It's peanut butter jelly time!
mritenburg
Taylor wrote:
My understanding is that each jack below the sliders is like a VCA for that harmonic. Is that not right? What I'm wondering is if, for example, I could connect the individual output for the highest harmonic to the CV input for the lowest harmonic and get some kind of in-tune ring modulation-type sounds.

Sounds like that should be possible if the center and width controls handle audio rate. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't a bunch of vactrols controlling the VC mixer.


Yes, that is correct. You can am each harmonic via the jack below the slider. Ring mod-ish effects are more pronounced if you use an external modulation source. The complex osc and Maths work well. Also, in regard to vactrols, the harmonic osc doesn't have any at all.
pxlsndworlock


SlayerBadger!
ununseptium
Oh dear, my order from Analogue Haven arrived today. Complex Osc, Harmonic Osc, Multistage and Four Pole. I now realise I should have pulled out all the stops and bought the VCA as well.

I was a little apprehensive thinking that the amount of complexity I was going to get out of just four modules would be a little less flexible than all the Doepfer modules I had to sell to fund them. Now, don't get me wrong, I loved my Doepfers but these Verbos modules totally blow me away! It's just going to take a wee while to get my head around them.
raylinds
I am looking to set up my first modular and am very interested in the Verbos modules. How does this look as a starter system?

Summa
raylinds wrote:

Is there anything I left out that I will need to add?


yes, a separate thread!
ununseptium
Thought it might be worth sharing this video of my recently acquired Verbos system. It's really more of a demonstration of the portability of the attaché case I'd just put together and, as I'd only just taken delivery of the modules, I hadn't much idea what I was doing with them. Still it shows how eminently skiff-friendly they are.

southphillysynths
ununseptium

Your doing it right... SlayerBadger!

I am in love with suitcases recently, I need to find one to build a little portable system in!
ununseptium
southphillysynths wrote:
ununseptium

Your doing it right... SlayerBadger!



Thanks, I'm glad you think so 8_) Sadly, I may have to sell this one in order to finance the Amp & Tone Controller that I'm still missing. cry
ununseptium
I'm struggling with this Multistage. Just trying to get my head around the basics and I can't find a way to patch it so that there is an extended release stage after the sustain. Has anybody posted any basic tutorials yet? I'm finding the instructions that came with it a little inscrutable. seriously, i just don't get it
Orson
That's a really nice suitcase system you've got here !
I'm moving to the US soon and I think the first thing I'm going to buy in this "a bit cheaper prices on modules" land is a Complex Osc. The density of the sounds it makes seems huge and the timbre section of the final output seems more pleasant then the DPO's one from the few demos I've heard here and there.
usw
ununseptium wrote:
I'm struggling with this Multistage. Just trying to get my head around the basics and I can't find a way to patch it so that there is an extended release stage after the sustain. Has anybody posted any basic tutorials yet? I'm finding the instructions that came with it a little inscrutable. seriously, i just don't get it

I don't have one but I asked roughly the same question when it was released and got no reply, so take all this as a hint (I especially don't understand what the "start" input really does nor how it does affect the "sustain" or eventually interact with the "enable" controls. The explanations that can be found in the multistage page @ analoguehaven are nothing but clear or exhaustive which is a pity...)

So...I think you need to control the "sustain" input with the output of a logic OR processing :

- the logic OR of your gate and the gate output of the desired sustain stage.
- the logic OR of the logic NOT of your gate and the gate output of the desired end stage.

(which makes 3 logic ORs and 1 logic inverter)

Plug your gate signal into the "strobe" input with the "analog" pot fully ccw for the reset (I'd slightly slew the multistage output to avoid the discontinuities it might induce)

Last point and main issue : it seems that the "start" control needs to be high for the "sustain" one to do its job, if so, both the sustain stage and the end stage will require it to be high and you may have to plug there a sufficient dc offset instead of the gate or nothing.
The question is : if the "sustain" control is off (it will be off whenever the gate's state changes while either in the sustain or end stage) will the multistage advance to the next stage/reset according to the "strobe" input or get stuck at the current one because of an inadequate state of the "start" control...? Please, report !
mritenburg
usw wrote:
ununseptium wrote:
I'm struggling with this Multistage. Just trying to get my head around the basics and I can't find a way to patch it so that there is an extended release stage after the sustain. Has anybody posted any basic tutorials yet? I'm finding the instructions that came with it a little inscrutable. seriously, i just don't get it

I don't have one but I asked roughly the same question when it was released and got no reply, so take all this as a hint (I especially don't understand what the "start" input really does nor how it does affect the "sustain" or eventually interact with the "enable" controls. The explanations that can be found in the multistage page @ analoguehaven are nothing but clear or exhaustive which is a pity


The Verbos Voltage Multistage is basically an 8 stage version of a Buchla 248 Multiple Arbitrary Function Generator (MARF). It's missing a couple features, but you should still read the MARF manual. I think I posted a link earlier in this thread. Here is is again:

http://rubidium.dyndns.org/~magnus/synths/companies/buchla/

Scroll down to the Buchla 248 section.
usw
Thank you, helpful reading ! it might be much simpler than I thought then (no logic function required).
The gate triggering the envelope must be plugged into the "start" and "strobe" inputs, the gate output of the desired sustain stage into the "sustain" input and the gate output of the desired end stage into the "stop" input, that is...if I'm not mistaken again lol
mritenburg
usw wrote:
Thank you, helpful reading ! it might be much simpler than I thought then (no logic function required).


You bet, my pleasure.

A good place to start is a two-stage AR envelope:

1. Patch gate out of stage 3 to strobe in
2. Set analog knob fully counter clockwise
3. Patch c.v. b out to time in. The b sliders for stages 1 and 2 control time of each stage
4. Patch c.v. a out to an LPG or VCA.
5. Experiment with various combinations of a slider settings and slide on and off for stages 1 and 2

Once you wrap your head around a two-stage envelope, other configurations will be easier to conceptualize in an instant.
usw
testing my understanding : isn't it looping in this configuration ?
mritenburg
usw wrote:
testing my understanding : isn't it looping in this configuration ?


Yes, it's a two-stage loop that allows independent control over Attack time, Attack level, Release time, and Release level creating a looping AR envelope. If you slow it down, it can also be used as an LFO.
usw
Great ! thanks again smile The multistage and a mutable frames would make a really nice AntiEnvelopesque couple...
ununseptium
Thanks folks, this is all useful stuff to a Buchla type system newbie like me. I'd missed the link to the MARF earlier so that is super helpful.

I'd got as far as producing a multistage envelope for my Dual Four Pole using this patch:
Gate (from minibrute) multied to Start and Strobe
Analog pot fully Anticlockwise
CVb to Time
Stage 4 to Sustain
Stage 5 to Stop

The minibrute is also sending Pitch CV to the Complex Osc.
The Osc goes through the Four Pole and is output into the minibrute.
I'm using the VCA of the minibrute as I don't have a Tone and Amp controller (yet).

This works well and I can either use the VCA env on the Minibrute or send a multied output from the multistage. I can even forgo the individual stage time controls and use CVb for the VCA.

However...
After the sustain stage of the envelope has completed and I release the key, the multistage is retriggered and runs once more through the envelope before coming to a halt. This means if I have the release stage of the VCA open, instead of having a gradual continuation of the final release stage of the envelope, I get the initial stages of the envelope repeated. Duh!
very frustrating
wellurban
I that the Voltage Multistage is a module that would massively benefit from a patchbook, along the lines of the ones for Maths, Rubicon and PTG. The "manual" that it comes with is disappointingly brief for a module this deep, and actually misleading on a couple of points. I tried using the manual to come up with a simple ADSR envelope, but it didn't work as described. The key is plugging the gate out for the stage AFTER the Strobe input to get the envelope to reset. The manual's method (of multing Start into Strobe*) doesn't work because Strobe will trigger on both the start and end of the gate, meaning that it will run through the envelope again on release.

Once I got that working, I was able to patch up all sorts of complex envelopes by putting more stages into the A, D or R phases, from holds and subtle shape variations to flam, mock-echo and wub effects. I had been meaning to make some demo videos, but I think it might be more informative to create some patch diagrams for some typical (and not so typical) applications.


(* I'm away from my modular and manual right now, so this is from memory and might not be right. But I know that following the hints in the manual didn't work as expected).
ununseptium
Thanks wellurban. That sounds very promising. I'll give it a go and report back. Patchbook sounds like a great idea for a novice like me. :-)
ununseptium
wellurban wrote:
I that the Voltage Multistage is a module that would massively benefit from a patchbook, along the lines of the ones for Maths, Rubicon and PTG. The "manual" that it comes with is disappointingly brief for a module this deep, and actually misleading on a couple of points. I tried using the manual to come up with a simple ADSR envelope, but it didn't work as described. The key is plugging the gate out for the stage AFTER the Strobe input to get the envelope to reset. The manual's method (of multing Start into Strobe*) doesn't work because Strobe will trigger on both the start and end of the gate, meaning that it will run through the envelope again on release.

Once I got that working, I was able to patch up all sorts of complex envelopes by putting more stages into the A, D or R phases, from holds and subtle shape variations to flam, mock-echo and wub effects. I had been meaning to make some demo videos, but I think it might be more informative to create some patch diagrams for some typical (and not so typical) applications.


(* I'm away from my modular and manual right now, so this is from memory and might not be right. But I know that following the hints in the manual didn't work as expected).


Couldn't get this to work, but maybe I wasn't quite following you properly. Hopefully you can share a point to point patch when you get back to your modular. Cheers!
wellurban
Ah, I was playing with it last night, but just using it as a sequencer having acid and Berlin School-type fun It's peanut butter jelly time! I'll have more time to get stuck into the envelopes analytically in a couple of days time.

In the meantime, this was a fun patch:

- CV A through attenuator and quantiser into VCO, VCO into LPF
- Gate out triggering Maths channel 1 (cycling)
- Maths channel 1 EOR triggering channel 4 set to short exp envelope
- CV B multed to Maths channel 1 rise and filter resonance
- Maths channel 4 to filter cutoff

It's basically an acid patch, but Maths channel 1 acts as a kind of wonky clock multiplier. CV B on the Verbos lets you vary stages between single, non resonant notes and fast squelchy trills. Depending on tempo, filter settings and slides, this can go from acid to TD-style ratcheting. Slow the clock right down and you get mellow, semi-ambient patches, with slides creating fills within the melody. Speed it up to audio rates and you can get crazy FM sounds and drones; then experiment with plugging the Maths EOR or EOC into the Verbos' sustain or strobe inputs for glitch fun.
ununseptium
Sounds great Wellurban. If only I had all those modules. Mr. Green
However, I've had to rationalize my eurorack system down to just the Verbos. (So far minus the VCA).

I'm really looking forward to finding out how that simple ADSR is created with the Multistage. I'm still struggling to do it without it going into a repeat. Now I'm wondering if it's to do with sending a gate from the MiniBrute. Anyone know if it sends a pulse on Key down and key release?
nomass
Was trying to make an ADSR with the VMS this morning, but I didn't quite get there.

I did this

1) keyboard gate to start
2) stage 1 channel a = 0
3) stage two channel a = all the way up
4) stage two set to slide
[That's for attack]

5) stage 3 slide
[that's for decay]

6) stage 4 gate out to sustain
[that's for sustain]

7) stage 5 set to slide
[that's for release]

8) Channel B cv out to time in
[to use channel b sliders to control A, D, and R times]

9) stage 6 gate out multed to end
[stops the envelope from looping]

10) Stage 6 gate out to strobe
[With advance knob set to 0 this returns the envelope to stage 1]

Shouldn't this be simpler? And shouldn't it work??
w00dw0rth
Anyone had any inspiring surprises with the Verbos HO?
mritenburg
w00dw0rth wrote:
Anyone had any inspiring surprises with the Verbos HO?


The Verbos HO is probably the single most unique oscillator I have used to date. Modulated with a Verbos VMS in combination with a Maths v2, it is capable of some amazing rhythmic and timbral possibilities - and that's without any LPG's, filters, or VCA's in the signal path.

I find surprises most often when using complex looping envelopes to modulate harmonic scan and spectral tilt. It's a deep module.

I'm looking forward to more news about a Verbos EG. I can only imagine that it will add to the possibilities.
mritenburg
nomass wrote:

6) stage 4 gate out to sustain
[that's for sustain]


If your keyboard gate out (or MIDI interface) stays high while a key is pressed, patch that to sustain, that way when you release the key, sustain ends and your envelope progresses to release.
nomass
I just got my HO on Saturday and have been playing with it nonstop. Slide levers are a blast!

Unfortunately, I'll have to eat sine waves for the rest of the week.
wellurban
nomass wrote:
Slide levers are a blast!


Ain't they just? It's wonderful on sequencers for tweaking a sequence when it's running, using your whole hand to slide the shape of the melody around on the fly.

In fact, I've been having so much fun playing with my multistage that I haven't got around to recreating and documenting my complex envelope patches. Soon! But in the meantime, here's a track in which the Verbos multistage is doing at least 4 sequencey things at once.

[s]http://soundcloud.com/and-per-se-and/clickstarter[/s]

The click rhythm is created by the gate out going through a DIY passive gate-to-trig converter (just a HPF + diode) to create short clicky envelopes, which opens a VCA letting through a Dixie II square wave. The CV A out drives the pitch of the Dixie, so the clicks vary between hard thumps, sharp snaps and little glitches. Using the gate switches and top slider row together, you get a kind of glitch drum machine that's fun to tweak on the fly.

The melodic/ostinato sequence that runs through most of the piece is controlled by CV row B running through an A133 bipolar VCA into an A156 quantiser. Some of the variations in this sequence come from playing the sliders, and at other times I let a slow LFO modulate the VCA, bringing in all sorts of variations. The A156 trigger out drives a Maths envelope which opens a Pitts Filter, so when the LFO has enough influence or I tweak an active stage, it creates little trills.

One of the stage outs drives another Maths envelope that controls the cutoff of a self-oscillating filter. This was supposed to be a kick drum, but the Verbos stage outs are not clean pulses at all, and they trigger the Maths multiple times. In the end, I quite liked the guiro-like effect, so I kept it. Finally, the Ref out goes into a clock divider and logic, which drives the one-note thumpy bass line. There's also lots of noise and feedback and weird R52 resonance shrieks in parts, dirtying up what otherwise turns into a clichéd Berlin School-type jam.

So, this is just an example of the many rhythmic and melodic possibilities you can get out of just one Verbos multistage, even without using its cleverer patching possibilities.
nomass
Very cool!
I especially like all the clicky bits, the return of the feedback toward the end and the hint of melody at the end before it all fades away.
PM33AUD
wellurban wrote:
nomass wrote:
Slide levers are a blast!


Ain't they just? It's wonderful on sequencers for tweaking a sequence when it's running, using your whole hand to slide the shape of the melody around on the fly.

In fact, I've been having so much fun playing with my multistage that I haven't got around to recreating and documenting my complex envelope patches. Soon! But in the meantime, here's a track in which the Verbos multistage is doing at least 4 sequencey things at once.

[s]http://soundcloud.com/and-per-se-and/clickstarter[/s]

The click rhythm is created by the gate out going through a DIY passive gate-to-trig converter (just a HPF + diode) to create short clicky envelopes, which opens a VCA letting through a Dixie II square wave. The CV A out drives the pitch of the Dixie, so the clicks vary between hard thumps, sharp snaps and little glitches. Using the gate switches and top slider row together, you get a kind of glitch drum machine that's fun to tweak on the fly.

The melodic/ostinato sequence that runs through most of the piece is controlled by CV row B running through an A133 bipolar VCA into an A156 quantiser. Some of the variations in this sequence come from playing the sliders, and at other times I let a slow LFO modulate the VCA, bringing in all sorts of variations. The A156 trigger out drives a Maths envelope which opens a Pitts Filter, so when the LFO has enough influence or I tweak an active stage, it creates little trills.

One of the stage outs drives another Maths envelope that controls the cutoff of a self-oscillating filter. This was supposed to be a kick drum, but the Verbos stage outs are not clean pulses at all, and they trigger the Maths multiple times. In the end, I quite liked the guiro-like effect, so I kept it. Finally, the Ref out goes into a clock divider and logic, which drives the one-note thumpy bass line. There's also lots of noise and feedback and weird R52 resonance shrieks in parts, dirtying up what otherwise turns into a clichéd Berlin School-type jam.

So, this is just an example of the many rhythmic and melodic possibilities you can get out of just one Verbos multistage, even without using its cleverer patching possibilities.


Wonderful!

How is the build quality? I'm sort of not all that happy with the build quality across most of euro-land unfortunately. When a module acts up, I end up building a DIY alternative which ends up sucking up a considerable amount of my time. confused I'd be curious mostly about the pots/switches used as these are the first things to go (also encoders but I'm pretty sure none of these modules have encoders grin)

Thanks for the clip - again, simply wonderful!
wellurban
Thanks! It was masses of fun to play. I've had a couple of relatively basic sequencers with knobs for a while, and it's amazing what a difference sliders make: you can see the sequence at a glance and tweak it in ways that you can't with knobs.

I'm not an expert on build quality, and I've only had a few chances to really play with it in the couple of weeks since I got it, but it looks beautiful and feels robust. Maybe it's just the knowledge that the Multistage is by far my most expensive module, but it really exudes a sense of quality and professionalism. My only disappointment so far is the odd-shaped gates on each stage, which causes multiple triggering of envelopes, but I turned that into a positive in this piece. I need to spend more time with it an oscilloscope to see what's going on with those.
jvt
wellurban wrote:
TMy only disappointment so far is the odd-shaped gates on each stage, which causes multiple triggering of envelopes, but I turned that into a positive in this piece. I need to spend more time with it an oscilloscope to see what's going on with those.

Contact Mark. There's a fix for the gate problem. I had the same issue with some (but not all) envelope generators. Mark was able to turn the repair around pretty quickly.
rockwoofstone
jvt wrote:
wellurban wrote:
TMy only disappointment so far is the odd-shaped gates on each stage, which causes multiple triggering of envelopes, but I turned that into a positive in this piece. I need to spend more time with it an oscilloscope to see what's going on with those.

Contact Mark. There's a fix for the gate problem. I had the same issue with some (but not all) envelope generators. Mark was able to turn the repair around pretty quickly.

Yep - he applied the same fix for me.
w00dw0rth
wellurban that sound sample is beautiful! nice work!

I have the harmonic oscillator, and I'm finding the build quality to be pretty good actually. We'll see how it holds up over time, but no complaints right out of the box.
wellurban
jvt wrote:
Contact Mark. There's a fix for the gate problem. I had the same issue with some (but not all) envelope generators. Mark was able to turn the repair around pretty quickly.


Thanks: I'll ask him about it. Shipping to the USA and back might be a pain, but it could be worth it.
wellurban
w00dw0rth wrote:
wellurban that sound sample is beautiful! nice work!

I have the harmonic oscillator, and I'm finding the build quality to be pretty good actually. We'll see how it holds up over time, but no complaints right out of the box.


Thanks! The Multistage is an inspiring module, and heaps of fun to play.

I'm definitely drooling over the HO, but I think I've bought my last "big ticket" module for a while. Just the shipping and customs on that would cost me more than some VCOs!
wellurban
Okay, I was going to draw up my ADSR patch, but ModularGrid's "Sketch A Patch" isn't working at the moment, so I'll have to just describe it. Here goes!

Patching:

- Incoming gate -> Start, and multed to Enable
- Stage 3 gate out -> Sustain
- Stage 4 gate out -> Stop
- Stage 5 gate out -> Strobe
- CV b -> Time CV
- CV a is now your envelope out.

Required settings:

- All stage switches set to slide
- Time CV fully CW
- Analog CV fully CCW
- Stage 1 a and b sliders at 0
- Stage 4 a slider at 0

ADSR settings:

Attack time: Stage 2b
Decay time: Stage 3b
Sustain level: Stage 3a
Release time: Stage 4b
Envelope level: Stage 2a (usually set near max, or at least higher than sustain level)

Phew! That's a lot of work to create Euro's most expensive ADSR
Dead Banana

But even with this basic ADSR patch, there are extra possibilities. Stage 1b sets a delay time before the attack begins. Setting stages 1a or 4a above 0 lets you start or end at a set level. Switching some stages away from slide gets you abrupt transitions. Setting the Analogue knob somewhere other than zero lets it start at a different stage. You now have end-of-stage outs all over the place.

But the fun starts when you build on this to create more complex envelopes. Using a stage higher than 3 to patch into Sustain gives you more than AD at the start. If you leave extra stages between the Sustain stage and the one you plug into Stop, then that gives you a complex release stage (great for faux echoes on release).

Just remember two things that aren't documented:

- Patch the stage you want to be the end of the release into Stop
- Patch the stage right after that into Strobe, to make sure that the next key press starts the envelope from the beginning.

Hope that's all clear!
stickmann
Thanks for posting a very detailed explanation of your patch @wellurban. I was messing around with the VMS last night and was able to reset to the first stage, getting an LFO, but was stumped on the Envelope / Retrigger part. Patching the stage Gate Out -> Stop then last Stage -> Strobe seems so obvious now. It is very cool to have a module with this sort of flexibility. From my use of the Verbos modules so far, they seem to respond very well to modulation. Particularly the Harmonic Oscillator and modulation of Harmonics while shifting through the three main modulation inputs (Width, Center, Tilt).

With the Multistage, I've had quite a bit of fun patching CV B into the Time input and then taking the main Gate Out into a clock mult / divider. It makes for some very cool rhythms, especially with different resets triggering the VMS and Divider.
nomass
Yeah, thanks for the adsr, Wellurban.

I'm printing it out and pasting it to the side of my rack!
ununseptium
Thanks wellurban, that's well clear and does work - after a fashion. However, this patch does not allow me to retrigger an envelope until it has completed its cycle. Each time an envelope is triggered it has to be played right through before the next can be started, which is rubbish for conventional adsr duties. The only way I can create an envelope that instantly retriggers on each subsequent keystroke is by multing the strobe with the start, and when I do that the final release stage of the envelope is skipped and replace with a retriggered envelope following each cycle whether I want it or not.
I'm certain I must be missing something obvious!y very frustrating
wellurban
ununseptium wrote:
Thanks wellurban, that's well clear and does work - after a fashion. However, this patch does not allow me to retrigger an envelope until it has completed its cycle.


That's one shortcoming, definitely. One thing I thought about, but haven't tried yet, is multing the gate into an OR combiner with the last stage out (Stage 5 in this example) before patching it into the strobe: that way it will go back to the start on a retrigger as well as at the start of a new key press.

To get this to work, you might have to stage gate out through a gate-trigger converter first, because Strobe seems to fire on a gate end as well as a gate start. Come to think of it, that might also be a way to get the manual's suggested solution working (mult the gate to Start and Strobe): that currently doesn't work because the Strobe would kick in on key release. That would simplify my patch in one way, but requires an external module.
ununseptium
Yeah, well thanks for the confirmation, Wellurban. At least now it's not mine acting strangely. I realise that this is a rather more complex module than a regular bread and butter ADSR, and it would be easier and cheaper just to use such a module for that kind of duty. I'm just trying to work my way up through the simplest functions of the VMS so that, in lieu of a proper manual, I can learn how to use it and, importantly, ensure that it functions correctly in every way that it's supposed to.

Cheers for all the input though and I'll share any thing useful I come up with.
wellurban
Okay, I think I'm working this out. It may be that my module has some glitches that mean triggers and gates don't work as intended, which is leading me astray.

Anyway, here's how I've got a better and simpler ADSR working, including with proper retrigger:

- Incoming gate -> Start, and multed into a gate-trigger converter
- Stage 3 gate out -> Sustain
- Stage 4 gate out -> Enable
- a gate-trigger converter -> Strobe
- CV b -> Time CV
- CV a is now your envelope out.

(bold text is changed from my previous patch)

I think this is supposed to work without the gate-to-trigger converter, i.e. the incoming gate just goes to both Start and Strobe. That's what the manual says, but with me the gate going into strobe holds the envelope for a while at the start, and then retriggers it on release. Anyway, try it without, and if it doesn't work, try it with a gate-to-trigger converter (I used a quick Maths envelope).
wellurban
And here's a quick demo (with a bit too much delay and reverb to hear things clearly, I'm afraid) of using the VMS to create a complex release stage.

[s]http://soundcloud.com/and-per-se-and/complex-envelopes-with-verbos- voltage-multistage[/s]

(Edit: link in case embedding doesn't work - http://soundcloud.com/and-per-se-and/complex-envelopes-with-verbos-vol tage-multistage)

From the Soundcloud description:

It starts off with a straightforward ADSR, then after about 40s I begin to bring in swells, pings and wubs to the release stage.

The patch is otherwise simple: Rubicon pulse into Pitts Filter and VCA then to reverb/delay; envelope opens filter and VCA; Moska CV sequence drives pitch; Moskwa gates through Branches to create slightly randomised gates to trigger the envelope. Because not every Moskwa note will trigger the envelope, sometimes the release stage will pick up a different pitch, thus bringing more complexity.
ununseptium
Thanks again. It is a shame that it doesn't seem to work without external assistance. Maybe it is just our glitchy units.

Is anyone else out there able to make a simple functioning ADSR, as described in the manual, using only the Verbos MultiStage?
mritenburg
ununseptium wrote:
Is anyone else out there able to make a simple functioning ADSR, as described in the manual, using only the Verbos MultiStage?


The following 4 stage looping ADSR patch *should* work:

1. Create a 4 stage loop by patching step 5 gate out to 'strobe' in and set the 'analog' knob fully counter-clockwise

2. Start internal clock

3. Patch 'cv b' out to 'time' in and rotate attenuverter clockwise - this gives you independent control over the time for each of the four stages. Time for each stage is set by each 'cv b' slider position.

4. Set 'cv a' stages 1-4 to slide. 'cv a' sliders determine the voltage level for each envelope segment.

5. 'cv a' out should be your ADSR. Start with 'cv a' sliders 1-3 at full and 4 at minimum. Start with 'cv b' sliders 1-3 at minimum and 4 at full. This should create an envelope with instant Attack, Decay, and Sustain with slow release.
ununseptium
mritenburg wrote:
ununseptium wrote:
Is anyone else out there able to make a simple functioning ADSR, as described in the manual, using only the Verbos MultiStage?


The following 4 stage looping ADSR patch *should* work:

1. Create a 4 stage loop by patching step 5 gate out to 'strobe' in and set the 'analog' knob fully counter-clockwise

2. Start internal clock

3. Patch 'cv b' out to 'time' in and rotate attenuverter clockwise - this gives you independent control over the time for each of the four stages. Time for each stage is set by each 'cv b' slider position.

4. Set 'cv a' stages 1-4 to slide. 'cv a' sliders determine the voltage level for each envelope segment.

5. 'cv a' out should be your ADSR. Start with 'cv a' sliders 1-3 at full and 4 at minimum. Start with 'cv b' sliders 1-3 at minimum and 4 at full. This should create an envelope with instant Attack, Decay, and Sustain with slow release.


Thanks mritenburg. Yes this does work for a purely looping envelope. The problems seem to come when trying to create a simple ADSR triggered from an external source (say keyboard) and creating a Sustain step and an instantly retriggerable Attack, but without the envelope automatically retriggering after its first Sustain or Release stage.

I don't suppose Mark or anyone from Verbos Electronics is going to be monitoring these posts, eh? Pretty please... seriously, i just don't get it
ununseptium
So I should probably apologise for casting aspersions when not in possession of the full facts (but I can still blame the inpenetrable manual).

After further testing, I find this:
Gate multied to Start and Strobe In.
Analog knob fully CCW.
Stage (whatever) Out to Sustain In.
Final Stage Out to Stop In.
CV b to Time In (Time knob attenuated to desired speed offset).
CV a to (whatever you want to use your envelope for).

So far this is as already described in previous posts.
The issue up to now has always been that the envelope will retrigger at some point but I think I've identified the retriggering culprit.
I'm taking the trigger from a MiniBrute and if I strike the key staccato the envelope will play through properly, following all the time and voltage stages programmed in with the sliders. It will also restart properly when a key is rapidly or repeatedly restruck. And, importantly it will stop at the end of the envelope.
However, if the keyboard is played legato, all of the above is true up until the point of key release, whereupon another trigger will be sent and the envelope is restarted. This can be at any stage during the envelope, which of course means that the Sustain stage will always end in a restart.
What I've gleaned from this is that the MiniBrute does issue a Gate pulse on key down and key release.
So my question for this thread is, has anyone tried playing a simple ADSR envelope using any other CV keyboard and does it cause the envelope to retrigger like the MiniBrute does?
Phew! Any suggestions gratefully received.
st1040
Hi, anyone (who owns the 5 Verbos modules) care to to post a mini review/run down of their system (mritenburg did a review in another thread applause ). I'm really interested in these but cannot find a review of the 5 modules together. Cheers! Thanks in advance phil
wellurban
I'll have to have a look at the ADSR patch and trigger levels in more details soon...but it's currently at the heart of a massive patch I'm working on, so it's a bit busy!

In the meantime, here's a demo I recorded the other day, using it for generating drum and percussion patterns and sounds (somewhere between minimal techno and tribal rhythms).

[s]http://soundcloud.com/and-per-se-and/verbos-multistage-drums[/s]
http://soundcloud.com/and-per-se-and/verbos-multistage-drums

Here's my patch description from the Soundcloud page:

First, the Ref output is used as a series of envelopes to shape the basic drum sound. This drives a Dixie triangle wave, and on its own would create a simple kick sound on each beat.

It then runs through a filter whose cutoff and resonance are driven by the a and b outs respectively. When b is low, the filter controlled by a effectively mutes that beat when low, and when it's high the drum comes through fully, so you can use this as a simple on/off to create the bass drum pattern. Values in between have more muffled tones, so you can use this to create more subtle rhythms, such as accented beats or builds.

When you crank up the resonance on channel b, it completely changes the drum tone. You can get tom-like hits and lots of clave-ish and woodblock-ish percussion, producing nice 70s-sounding drum machine loops (think Minipops or CR78). Switching a stage to slide when resonance is high can create swoops and zaps, or sub-wrecking almost subsonic booms when cutoff is near the bottom. It's masses of fun to play with live, and you can get huge varieties of tones and rhythms with just one oscillator, one filter, and no envelope beyond the Ref output of the VM.

I also use the stage outputs through an OR combiner to create the other percussion (varies between hatlike, snarelike and claplike sounds as its decay varies). That part is made more conventionally (white noise->resonant HPF->VCA driven by Function envelope->slapback delay). Other than that and effects, it's all controlled by the VM.
Drakhe
modintx wrote:
Look amazing - hopefully they will be up on modulargrid.net shortly so we can all have virtual fun racking them thumbs up


these have been on mg for ages...
wellurban
I need to explore the triggering a bit more, but I keep getting distracted by other ways to use it! Here's an example of using it as a kind of "conductor" to give shape to a long semi-generative piece:

[s]http://soundcloud.com/and-per-se-and/voltage-conductor[/s]
http://soundcloud.com/and-per-se-and/voltage-conductor

From the SoundCloud description:

Using the Verbos Voltage Multistage to structure and "orchestrate" an entirely self-running piece. It's not quite using it as a sequencer; not quite as a complex envelope, but something in between. The result is rather Enoesque in parts (in a Discreet Music/Thursday Afternoon sort of way), but it could apply to any type of music.

The audio for this patch is simple: a bell-like Braids riff using the DRUM model, and two drones at different pitches. The VM is set up like a complex envelope, with CV b into the Time CV so that it controls the stage length, and the last stage out plugged into Stop. Pressing Start and Strobe together (or that could be automated too) kicks off the envelope, which runs through once then stops, essentially defining the piece.

The VM then controls the following elements:

- CVa controls the Fill on a Klasmata that triggers Braids, thus varying the rhythm from sparse single notes through to an 8th-note riff, with various Euclidean grooves in between. Most stages are in Slide mode, for long slow changes, but there's one more sudden change where the switch is set to gate.

- CVa is multed to the cutoff of the filter that both drones pass through, so the drone notes get brighter when the Braids riff is busier.

- The first stage out is inverted and ANDed (using A166) with the Pamela trigger that drives Klasmata, so that Braids isn't triggered during the first stage.

- Various stage outs go into the inputs and triggers of two Maths envelopes, which have slow rise and fall times, and that open two VCAs to bring the drones in as slow swells. Going into a Maths input creates an ASR envelope that lasts the whole stage, while going into the trigger creates an AR envelope that just plays at the beginning.

- Two stage outputs get multed together and patched into the Direction input of the Moskwa that's driving Braids, so that for a few stages the riff reverses.

- Finally, the Ref out goes through a slew and drives a uFold that subtly changes the timbre of one of the drones through each stage.

There are lots of other possibilities to explore (using the gate out to trigger other sequencers or sequential switches to get more complexity; using comparators plugged into Advance or Strobe to jump to a difference stage when certain events happen in the patch; using one channel to drive a VC switch to programme other changes), but this was just a quick proof of concept. I've always wanted to find ways to bring large-scale structure to generative pieces, and the VM gives me a way to do it. There was no manual wiggling or external sequencing in this recording!
Kentucky
wellurban
thumbs up neat track
gonkulator
So, if I wanted to add my first Verbos module, would I be wrong in thinking the Multistage would have the most distinctive features, in other words, features hard to find elsewhere? Especially if I am becoming addicted to sequencers? nuts
mritenburg
gonkulator wrote:
So, if I wanted to add my first Verbos module, would I be wrong in thinking the Multistage would have the most distinctive features, in other words, features hard to find elsewhere? Especially if I am becoming addicted to sequencers? :nut:



I'd say the Harmonic Oscillator is the most unique module in the Verbos line. There isn't anything like it anywhere else.
gonkulator
mritenburg wrote:
gonkulator wrote:
So, if I wanted to add my first Verbos module, would I be wrong in thinking the Multistage would have the most distinctive features, in other words, features hard to find elsewhere? Especially if I am becoming addicted to sequencers? nuts



I'd say the Harmonic Oscillator is the most unique module in the Verbos line. There isn't anything like it anywhere else.


Thank you, I will look into it.
wellurban
The HO and VM both intrigued me the most, since they were so different from other Euro modules. I made the tricky choice of getting the VM, since I'm a sequencer junkie, and I couldn't afford both (well, maybe I'll have to sell something or someone to get the HO...)

I haven't regretted it. There's a couple of tricky issues with triggers, but they can be overcome, and it really leads you to think about sequencing and envelopes in new ways.

Here's two examples I've just made using Braids: in the first, CVb chooses the chord type while CVa chooses the root note; in the second, CVa morphs between vowels while CVb changes the stage time, creating a spooky vocal line.

[s]http://soundcloud.com/and-per-se-and/verbos-multistage-and-braids-c hords[/s]

[s]http://soundcloud.com/and-per-se-and/braids-alien-soprano[/s]
Kentucky
wellurban
Wow! Sounds incredible!
ndkent
st1040 wrote:
Hi, anyone (who owns the 5 Verbos modules) care to to post a mini review/run down of their system (mritenburg did a review in another thread applause ). I'm really interested in these but cannot find a review of the 5 modules together. Cheers! Thanks in advance phil


I have all 5. As a concept Verbos only system, you know, in a case by themselves, I think I really need a second multistage.
Slabwax
@wellurban

The VM and Braids demo is wonderful. Is that demo only using those modules?
wellurban
Thanks, slabwax!

I take it you mean the second one, "Braids Alien Soprano", since in my browser at least the first one isn't showing up embedded. In that case, Braids is the only audio module, though with external reverb and delay. There's a bit more involved, though, as this excerpt from my Soundcloud description shows:

"It's a pretty typical VM patch, with CV b into time CV. Since for most of the demo the stages are in Slide mode, there's no gate out, so I use the Ref out to trigger an envelope that slowly brings in vibrato on each note (LFO->VCA->Braids FM; envelope->VCA). The Ref out also triggers an A160, the /2 out of which clocks a second sequencer (Moskwa) which creates the melody, with the /16 out going through an attenuator into the uScale quantiser's shift in, thus creating variations in the spooky melody."

Hope this helps thumbs up
RedLab
wellurban wrote:
Thanks, slabwax!

I take it you mean the second one, "Braids Alien Soprano", since in my browser at least the first one isn't showing up embedded. In that case, Braids is the only audio module, though with external reverb and delay. There's a bit more involved, though, as this excerpt from my Soundcloud description shows:

"It's a pretty typical VM patch, with CV b into time CV. Since for most of the demo the stages are in Slide mode, there's no gate out, so I use the Ref out to trigger an envelope that slowly brings in vibrato on each note (LFO->VCA->Braids FM; envelope->VCA). The Ref out also triggers an A160, the /2 out of which clocks a second sequencer (Moskwa) which creates the melody, with the /16 out going through an attenuator into the uScale quantiser's shift in, thus creating variations in the spooky melody."

Hope this helps thumbs up

Holy.... "Braids Alien Soprano" is stunning. Very inspiring piece.
stickmann
jvt wrote:
wellurban wrote:
TMy only disappointment so far is the odd-shaped gates on each stage, which causes multiple triggering of envelopes, but I turned that into a positive in this piece. I need to spend more time with it an oscilloscope to see what's going on with those.

Contact Mark. There's a fix for the gate problem. I had the same issue with some (but not all) envelope generators. Mark was able to turn the repair around pretty quickly.


I was experiencing this too (double triggering Maths and Quadra) and discovered a workaround if you don't want to ship it out. Send the Gate Out to an attenuator (or VCA with bias, you might be able to add cool stacatto / variations with it this way thumbs up ) and turn it CCW (down) until the gates no longer double trigger. I've noticed that the longer the stage, the more you need to attenuate. I've been turning the attenuator until it no longer triggers the envelope, then turning it up just enough to get the trigger. Works great but ties up part of another module.
analoglsd
@wellurban:
You should be on the Verbos payroll with those demos.
Excellent work! I really admire the creative and thoughtful patching.
"Voltage Conductor" is just sublime, and the patch description is lucid and enlightening.
Cheers! Guinness ftw!

applause
orangehexagon
Does anyone have any insight on when we can expect the Verbos keyboard?
finalmattasy
Question: On the Complex Oscillator, can the 7 dedicated wave outs work simultaneously? The demos I've seen only use one wave out at a time.
Also wondering what exactly the modulation cv in does (between the two wave sections). I assume it automates the mod index, but I'm not cetain.

It's a long wait for these in Canada. =(
mritenburg
finalmattasy wrote:
Question: On the Complex Oscillator, can the 7 dedicated wave outs work simultaneously? The demos I've seen only use one wave out at a time.
Also wondering what exactly the modulation cv in does (between the two wave sections). I assume it automates the mod index, but I'm not cetain.

It's a long wait for these in Canada. =(


Yes, all signal outputs work simultaneously. And yes, mod cv modulates the depth of mod index. The only thing that is not obvious from the panel is that when the mod bus is set to a.m. it only amplitude modulates the master output, whereas f.m. applies to all 4 signals in the right hand oscillator.
finalmattasy
mritenburg wrote:
finalmattasy wrote:
Question: On the Complex Oscillator, can the 7 dedicated wave outs work simultaneously? The demos I've seen only use one wave out at a time.
Also wondering what exactly the modulation cv in does (between the two wave sections). I assume it automates the mod index, but I'm not cetain.

It's a long wait for these in Canada. =(


Yes, all signal outputs work simultaneously. And yes, mod cv modulates the depth of mod index. The only thing that is not obvious from the panel is that when the mod bus is set to a.m. it only amplitude modulates the master output, whereas f.m. applies to all 4 signals in the right hand oscillator.


Thanks, one more question, do the modules ship with any cables?
Daisuk
Shit, man, talk about making Braids sing! Fantastic. Well done. applause
orangehexagon
finalmattasy wrote:
mritenburg wrote:
finalmattasy wrote:
Question: On the Complex Oscillator, can the 7 dedicated wave outs work simultaneously? The demos I've seen only use one wave out at a time.
Also wondering what exactly the modulation cv in does (between the two wave sections). I assume it automates the mod index, but I'm not cetain.

It's a long wait for these in Canada. =(


Yes, all signal outputs work simultaneously. And yes, mod cv modulates the depth of mod index. The only thing that is not obvious from the panel is that when the mod bus is set to a.m. it only amplitude modulates the master output, whereas f.m. applies to all 4 signals in the right hand oscillator.


Thanks, one more question, do the modules ship with any cables?


They ship with a power cable, but not patch cables.

I've never seen or heard of a module shipped with patch cables, but that would be a very nice treat if someone did.
mritenburg
In honor of receiving my updated Voltage Multistage yesterday, I'm posting a little collage of sounds made with my mostly Verbos 9U:

[s]http://soundcloud.com/labelleaurore/verbos-patches[/s]
exper
mritenburg wrote:
I no honor of receiving my updated Voltage Multistage yesterday, I'm posting a little collage of sounds made with my mostly Verbos 9U:

[s]http://soundcloud.com/labelleaurore/verbos-patches[/s]


Nice. That looks like a fun system.
mritenburg
exper wrote:
Nice. That looks like a fun system.


It gets the job done.
exper
mritenburg wrote:
exper wrote:
Nice. That looks like a fun system.


It gets the job done.


How do you like the AMP/Tone controller as a LPG? It looks interesting, but I've yet to hear a good example. Most demos I've heard focus on the drive and filter resonance, not so much the vactrol ring.
mritenburg
exper wrote:
mritenburg wrote:
exper wrote:
Nice. That looks like a fun system.


It gets the job done.


How do you like the AMP/Tone controller as a LPG? It looks interesting, but I've yet to hear a good example. Most demos I've heard focus on the drive and filter resonance, not so much the vactrol ring.


I think it is awesome and if patched correctly is indistinguishable from an Optomix. In the little piece I posted, the final section of bongos/drums before the two closing swells are alternating between Optomix and ATC i.e. every other hit is ATC.
exper
Ah cool. It does sound good there. Thanks!
d.thomas
Regarding the Tone and Amplitude Controller,

What does it mean when it says "simultaneous exponential and linear control"?
Is it saying linear cv adds or subtracts the exponential cv amount?

Thanks ya'll!
mritenburg
d.thomas wrote:
Regarding the Tone and Amplitude Controller,

What does it mean when it says "simultaneous exponential and linear control"?
Is it saying linear cv adds or subtracts the exponential cv amount?

Thanks ya'll!


There is literally a bi-polar exp. cv input and a bi-polar linear cv input. According to the one-page manual that ships with the module, both can add or subtract.

raylinds
Has anyone with the Complex Oscillator experimented with the LFO oscillator in the audible range? I just did and you can get some wild sounds when you sync it to the main oscillator. You should give it a try.
w00dw0rth
mritenburg wrote:
In honor of receiving my updated Voltage Multistage yesterday, I'm posting a little collage of sounds made with my mostly Verbos 9U:

[s]http://soundcloud.com/labelleaurore/verbos-patches[/s]


really nice sounds you got there. clean and classic. thanks for sharing.
ununseptium
I received my modded and fixed VMS back from Mark yesterday.It was a pain to have to send it back, especially as I had to pay import VAT on it all over again. However, at least now it doesn't do that unwanted re-triggering and I can make proper complex multistage envelopes. Well worth having!
st1040
Not 100% sure but you should be able to claim your VAT back, I imagine you have already paid once when you first bought the modules , it should have been marked up as something like "returned repair" to get round paying again. Worth sending the VAT/Import people an email explaining. Good luck!
ununseptium
Thanks st1040, yes that is how it was marked and they still went ahead and charged me. There's a reclaim form I could fill in, but it's quite an involved process, requiring original receipts, and documentation of repair work etc. For 24 quid, It's not worth the hassle - I'm just gonna suck it up!
st1040
I know what you mean with regards to 4 hours messing about with forms vs refund, that's the way they design these things hihi
I keep looking at the Verbos system how are you finding It?
Speak soon Phil
ununseptium
They are amazing modules, Phil. V. expensive, I know, but the sound quality, the timbre, the build quality (when they finally work right) and the flexibility of them seemed to warrant the spend.

I sold a bunch of doepfer stuff plus other hard-wired synths to invest in this system. I wanted to rationalize the size of my set-up, get something portable and learn to use better what I have. I was thinking of selling a load of stuff to finance an EMS Synthi or Buchla Easel or maybe an EML 101. Alas, these were still all too expensive. I look at the Verbos system as being a modern and more affordable route in this direction.

I'm still saving towards the Amp & Tone Controller, so for now using the VCA on my MiniBrute. Also, of course looking forward to Mark releasing his touch sensitive keyboard.

All in all though, highly recommended. It is a hassle buying from the States, as Schneidersladen still don't have them in stock (despite listing them as 'Shortly Available' for about 6 months), but I can't think of anything I would replace them with.
Cheers,
Alan
mritenburg
ununseptium wrote:
I'm still saving towards the Amp & Tone Controller, so for now using the VCA on my MiniBrute. Also, of course looking forward to Mark releasing his touch sensitive keyboard.


The ATC is a great module and I use it in almost every patch. Sometimes, however, I just want a simple low-pass gate. If you don't already have a Make Noise Optomix, I highly recommend it instead of a standard VCA. For Buchla style (west coast) patching and timbres, I consider it an essential module. The Make Noise Maths is also an essential module for west coast techniques, though this may change when Verbos releases his rumored envelope generator.

I am also eagerly awaiting the Verbos touch keyboard.
exper
Mritenburg,

Do you know of any examples of the ATC doing a basic, complex fm 'bongo' sound? I've yet to hear it really used as a LPG. I keep looking at it with interest, but just not sure about it.

I agree though, a quad, true LPG would have been great. I guess I'm waiting on demos of the Sputnik one for now.

What are the rumors of a verbos envelope btw?
mritenburg
exper wrote:
Mritenburg,

Do you know of any examples of the ATC doing a basic, complex fm 'bongo' sound? I've yet to hear it really used as a LPG. I keep looking at it with interest, but just not sure about it.

I agree though, a quad, true LPG would have been great. I guess I'm waiting on demos of the Sputnik one for now.

What are the rumors of a verbos envelope btw?


I think I'm having déjà vu? :). Didn't me and you just discuss the ATC as a pure LPG producing bongos a page or so back in this thread? The soundcloud link I posted a page or so back entitled 'Verbos Patches' has examples of the ATC and Optomix both patched to produce the same bongo (percussion) sound. Maybe tonight I'll post a mix of just ATC bongos.

I too am looking forward to the Sputnik 281/292/266/206 clones to compliment my Verbos/Make Noise system.

Re: Verbos Envelope: In one of the Music Messe video interviews, Mark mentions very briefly that he is working on an envelope generator.
exper
Haha i very well could have asked that already. I'm so busy lately I think my mental faculties are suffering.

Anyway, yes I remember that demo. I think the switching back and forth with the optomix confused me.

What I'd love to hear is sparse notes, with the oscillator pitch chewing in between notes, that way any bleeding is easily identifiable, as well as the individual LPG decays are easier to hear.

I'm only interested in the Sputnik 292 clone personally. More than happy with the quadra's take on the 281, and I'm good on oscs and random.

A verbos envelope seems like it is needed, but hopefully he'll do a different take on the 281. There's enough of that already. Although his designs seems to be more of their own thing and not just 'clones'.
mritenburg
exper wrote:
his designs seems to be more of their own thing and not just 'clones'.


Definitely. I like that he has created hybrid modules (Dual Four Pole and Harmonic Osc) that provide both Buchla 100 style core features with Buchla 200 style control voltage interfaces. At the same time I welcome Sputnik's clones because I want those modules in Eurorack.
Hanz
Quote:
I like that he has created hybrid modules (Dual Four Pole and Harmonic Osc) that provide both Buchla 100 style core features with Buchla 200 style control voltage interfaces.

On that topic, and the idea of 'interoperability', a question.
For the past few days, I've been test driving the full set of Verbos modules currently. I figured they'd make a 'complete system' - which is of course not entirely true, which is why I extended it with a few choice modules; Maths, Wogglebug and QMMG amongst others.

One thing I've noticed (first heard, then confirmed on the scope) seriously bugs me.
Can somebody explain, why does the Dual Four Pole seem to be restricted to a -5V to +5V (= 10Vpp) signal bandwidth, where both the Complex Oscillator and Harmonic Oscillator happily spit out 10V+ (= 20Vpp) signal peaks?
The Dual Four Pole has no input attenuator, such as the Amplitude & Tone controller. The result is that using the Dual Four Pole directly behind one of these oscillators, the signal is really distorted, beyond recognition in many cases.

Now:
Option 1) Am I supposed to use external attenuators for 'fairly normal patching' (further distracting from the idea of the current Verbos system as 'complete')?
Option 2) Or is the whole idea to always put ATC module in between and use Dual Four Pole at the very end of the signal chain? This would be a bit limiting, I had intended this filter for other purposes.
Option 3) Or is the massive clipping/distortion an 'essential' part of the whole Verbos / vintage Buchla like sound?

This is the one thing that really puzzles me, but that's probably due to my lack of understanding with things Verbos and legacy Buchla at all... enlighten me please?
mritenburg
Hanz wrote:


Option 3) Or is the massive clipping/distortion an 'essential' part of the whole Verbos / vintage Buchla like sound?

This is the one thing that really puzzles me, but that's probably due to my lack of understanding with things Verbos and legacy Buchla at all... enlighten me please?


I haven't experienced that with my dual four pole. Mine is liquid and smooth until I set high resonance, and even then I do not experience excessive clipping or distortion. You should definitely email Verbos Electronics through the email form on their website. I've had a good experience with Verbos support. I'll bet it is just a calibration issue.
chris_g
Has anyone recorded a more traditional, east coast sounding demo of these modules? Curious how these modules sound outside of the buchla influenced style we would expect from them
CV_Wonder
The Verbos System isn't supposed to be considered complete at all, he's working on new modules that are going to be amazing. I keep seeing this point brought up.

BTW, anyone who was thinking about getting a full set of current modules, just go do it right now. This is beyond anything in the euro market tone wise and it can anywhere from ultra fat/juicy to super intricate and beautiful.
It's just eek!
Dogma
Verbos make the nicest looking modules i think. So 2001 Space Odyssey
Im thinking about grabing the VCA to go with the L1 and the ADDAC. I cant find any demos! so bloody frustrating.
How do you think it will go with my setup? http://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/116301
pinhole_sunrise
Here's a demo of the VCA

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xJnnRJQ5OCw
Dogma
hmm - Im trying to decide whether or not this is the best thing for my rack. Im wondering if I have to many LPG's?
Is it looking balanced? Im also thinking that my rack is looking very west coast. http://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/116301
** Thanks for the link - sounds damn fine to me. Trying to work out whether it will be as useful as i think
Electrostatic
chris_g wrote:
Has anyone recorded a more traditional, east coast sounding demo of these modules? Curious how these modules sound outside of the buchla influenced style we would expect from them


Hi Chris, there's this....

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=120929

The Harmonic Oscillator being used in a melodic way.
It's a great oscillator for use in melodic patches. Just feed it a melodic cv, then modulate some harmonics. You can basically play a melody with the harmonics over the melody it's already playing.
Can get some great tunes coming out of it.

Plus it also does the bonkers fun stuff too, very easily.
DSC
Any news on anything new?
mritenburg
chris_g wrote:
Has anyone recorded a more traditional, east coast sounding demo of these modules? Curious how these modules sound outside of the buchla influenced style we would expect from them


This is about as 'east coast' as I like using Verbos modules:

[s]http://soundcloud.com/labelleaurore/verbos-eastcoast[/s]
chris_g
mritenburg wrote:
chris_g wrote:
Has anyone recorded a more traditional, east coast sounding demo of these modules? Curious how these modules sound outside of the buchla influenced style we would expect from them


This is about as 'east coast' as I like using Verbos modules:

[s]http://soundcloud.com/labelleaurore/verbos-eastcoast[/s]


Wow, sounds great!
mritenburg
chris_g wrote:
Wow, sounds great!


Thanks! East coast techniques using the traditional subtractive synthesis voice (vco->vcf-vca) are as easy to create using Verbos as any eurorack brand that provides basic modules. It would be a mistake to assume that only traditional west coast techniques (fm->complex osc->wave shaping->lpg) are available with Verbos modules.
Selador
Just have to get used to post-filter amplification. smile

However, feeding back an amplified signal into the Four-Pole gets some really gnarly distortion and resonance squeals. That filter colors the hell out of sounds, and in many cases, does so pleasantly.

Too bad about the remaining noise on switching supplies, though, I don't think an entirely clean sound is possible with the design. "Tape noise" retro flavor? hihi
mritenburg
Selador wrote:
Too bad about the remaining noise on switching supplies, though, I don't think an entirely clean sound is possible with the design. "Tape noise" retro flavor?


I'm not quite sure what you mean. Verbos doesn't currently sell a power supply, let alone a switching supply. I don't know if I'm in the minority here, but I would never use anything other that a high quality dual output linear supply in my modulars.
echoplex
is there any review on the verbos system.. like someone tested it and wrote some words about it..?
Selador
mritenburg wrote:
I'm not quite sure what you mean. Verbos doesn't currently sell a power supply, let alone a switching supply. I don't know if I'm in the minority here, but I would never use anything other that a high quality dual output linear supply in my modulars.


I didn't imply that he did, it's simply a noted case that when used with switching supplies, there's bus noise. Some thirty pages back, when they were first released you can see my posts, audio samples, videos, and updates pre- and post-repair.

Unfortunately, I don't have the space yet to house a case that uses a linear supply, and portability is a must in my 'case.' hihi
mritenburg
Selador wrote:
Unfortunately, I don't have the space yet to house a case that uses a linear supply, and portability is a must in my 'case.'


I'm very happy with the Doepfer 9U x 84HP suitcase that houses my Verbos system. It consider it very portable. The 1.2A dual output linear supply is strong, quiet, and clean. I don't experience any power supply noise even with the mix of module brands in that case.

I especially like that the suitcase is boxy. It reminds me if the Buchla 100 cabinets.
roqeja
I'm still waiting for more keyboard details.
mritenburg
roqeja wrote:
I'm still waiting for more keyboard details.



I'm thinking 'any day now.' Verbos is performing at set at KnobCon. They posted this pic to their Facebook page. Interesting, simple layout: Voltage Multistage, Harmonic Osc, ATC, and touch keyboard.

skyshaver
Ooooh, that keyboard is exciting. applause
exper
Gah! Wish I could read the keyboard text.

Wonder what the features are. Pressure/position? Sequencing, etc.
echoplex
Alessandro's even got one already hihi

http://instagram.com/p/srFY2wKjfv/?modal=true
w00dw0rth
Oooh, la la. nanners
analogueheart


I got the chance to play the keyboard for 5 minutes.
And I have to say that simple system was a lot of fun.
As far as the keyboard is concerned,
It has pressure, gate, and pitch. The left top is two bend touch plates
And the 8 touch plates on top are essentially
Pressure points, or another keyboard that has a tuning knob for each stage.
The 8 touch plates also have pressure,gate, and pitch.
Plus three oct plates on the far right for the main keyboard.
voidshell
Was there any info on keyboard price?
mritenburg
Any capture a better image of this system? It looks like it contain another new module, or module prototype in the lower left corner of the photo (top right of the system). I can barely make out what looks like 'dual slope.'

[/img]
clusterchord
analogueheart wrote:
I got the chance to play the keyboard for 5 minutes.
And I have to say that simple system was a lot of fun.
As far as the keyboard is concerned,
It has pressure, gate, and pitch. The left top is two bend touch plates
And the 8 touch plates on top are essentially
Pressure points, or another keyboard that has a tuning knob for each stage.
The 8 touch plates also have pressure,gate, and pitch.
Plus three oct plates on the far right for the main keyboard.


wow, those are really exciting news about the specs. it's really hard not to want this. well, the final stroke of destiny will be the moment they release the price for this gem..


so, probably a stupid question, but just to be sure,, the keyboard is exactly 84HP i presume ?
analogueheart
clusterchord wrote:
analogueheart wrote:
I got the chance to play the keyboard for 5 minutes.
And I have to say that simple system was a lot of fun.
As far as the keyboard is concerned,
It has pressure, gate, and pitch. The left top is two bend touch plates
And the 8 touch plates on top are essentially
Pressure points, or another keyboard that has a tuning knob for each stage.
The 8 touch plates also have pressure,gate, and pitch.
Plus three oct plates on the far right for the main keyboard.


wow, those are really exciting news about the specs. it's really hard not to want this. well, the final stroke of destiny will be the moment they release the price for this gem..


so, probably a stupid question, but just to be sure,, the keyboard is exactly 84HP i presume ?

It is 84hp, and it should be released by the end of the year,
But I really don't know what the price is going to be.
orangehexagon
mritenburg wrote:
Any capture a better image of this system? It looks like it contain another new module, or module prototype in the lower left corner of the photo (top right of the system). I can barely make out what looks like 'dual slope.'

[/img]


I talked to Mark and even got to mess around with his setup before the show.

It's a dual ADSR that he's keeping a secret. Mr. Green
Kummer
orangehexagon wrote:
mritenburg wrote:
Any capture a better image of this system? It looks like it contain another new module, or module prototype in the lower left corner of the photo (top right of the system). I can barely make out what looks like 'dual slope.'

[/img]


I talked to Mark and even got to mess around with his setup before the show.

It's a dual ADSR that he's keeping a secret. Mr. Green


Looks like VC of each stage (maybe?). I hope he talks about it soon because it might just replace the dual adsr from intellijel I was planning on getting.
exper
Honestly surprised it's not a function generator design.
mritenburg
exper wrote:
Honestly surprised it's not a function generator design.


Do you mean like the 281?
exper
Yes. I mean, sure there is stuff covering that already like maths and quadra, but I guess I thought with the buchla influence, and having a complete system he would have went the other way. I suppose it makes sense because of the keyboard module that's coming. You need gates for ADSRs, which is why I never use them. smile
Kummer
exper wrote:
Honestly surprised it's not a function generator design.


There look to be a lot of patch points on the right hand side so it still could be an adsr with function generator functionality built in.
mritenburg
Kummer wrote:
exper wrote:
Honestly surprised it's not a function generator design.


There look to be a lot of patch points on the right hand side so it still could be an adsr with function generator functionality built in.


Seeing that it has 5 sliders per row, maybe it's 1/2 of a Buchla 284 quad envelope generator. 5 sliders corresponding to the 5 knobs.


exper
mritenburg wrote:
Kummer wrote:
exper wrote:
Honestly surprised it's not a function generator design.


There look to be a lot of patch points on the right hand side so it still could be an adsr with function generator functionality built in.


Seeing that it has 5 sliders per row, maybe it's 1/2 of a Buchla 284 quad envelope generator. 5 sliders corresponding to the 5 knobs.




Now that thing is cool! What does the control input modulate? Both attack and decay?
mritenburg
exper wrote:
What does the control input modulate? Both attack and decay?


I believe the cv modifies delay, attack, duration, and decay evenly so that the time for each segment is increased or decreased, but the envelope shape remains the same. I also think the cv can extend each segment time beyond 10 seconds. I could be wrong.
Dogma
What are the thought on having the ATC is a primary filter/vca? I love the sound of it but its so lacking in functions I might just get the Mutant Filter (both vactorals)
devslashnull
Dogma wrote:
What are the thought on having the ATC is a primary filter/vca? I love the sound of it but its so lacking in functions I might just get the Mutant Filter (both vactorals)


What functions is the ATC lacking? My system (http://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/108847) is built around Verbos modules and I'm enjoying it so far.

I really want the Dual Four Pole, but I ran out of
Dogma
http://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/116301

I can see me ending up with a verbos system in the coming years.
I havent built or ordered the L1 mixer or Mutant filter
Id be looking for a "straight" filter and a final VCA - except that everything seems to have a nice VCA really
No Mystereon either
DSC
If he plans on making a lasting name for himself, than I think his own original designs must speak for themselves. I'm hoping he can produce some amazing concepts in the next 12 months otherwise it might be the business aspect that might have taken its toll. It's got to be hard to manage all of the angles. Current stock, future inventory, demand, R&D and then prototyping and sales on top of it. I hope he has some good help.
Zodanga
There are rumors in other threads that some new Verbos modules will soon be announced. I know there was a touch keyboard on the bench recently... does anyone have any other info about what could be next in store...?
exper
There was an ADSR prototype shown at knobcon.
mritenburg
Zodanga wrote:
There are rumors in other threads that some new Verbos modules will soon be announced. I know there was a touch keyboard on the bench recently... does anyone have any other info about what could be next in store...?


Definitely an envelope generator. His other original designs that were built in Buchla format include: pulse sequencer, time domain processor, analog shift register, voltage processor, and quantizer. Some of those may eventually show up in euro format. Only the keyboard and eg are definitely known at this point.
minime123
i played a verbos system and loved it. thumbs up
mini
southphillysynths
Been away from this thread for a while, seeing that AC patch I'm super excited about the keyboard now, hoping it's not going to be too many

Not sure how many of you have seen this Verbos presentation. I really loved it because he talked a lot about fixing the old buchlas which is really awesome to hear in such detail which is only accessed by a few people. The way that he talks of design and building module from the panel in is really interesting to me. hmmm.....

mritenburg
southphillysynths wrote:
The way that he talks of design and building module from the panel in is really interesting to me.


That's also how Don Buchla does it. He designs the panels first. Ergonomics being a primary consideration. Verbos panels are larger than most other eururack makers, but it's nice because patches don't get cluttered. Don't get me wrong, I like my 4HP modules, but a fully patched A-160/161 gets cluttered real fast.
southphillysynths
mritenburg wrote:
southphillysynths wrote:
The way that he talks of design and building module from the panel in is really interesting to me.


That's also how Don Buchla does it. He designs the panels first. Ergonomics being a primary consideration. Verbos panels are larger than most other eururack makers, but it's nice because patches don't get cluttered. Don't get me wrong, I like my 4HP modules, but a fully patched A-160/161 gets cluttered real fast.


Yeah! Totally he goes pretty in depth in depth about it in this talk
orangehexagon
exper wrote:
There was an ADSR prototype shown at knobcon.


Yep. I had a chance to play with it as well. He didn't include it in the demo case, but Mark let me play the system for a bit before his performance.

It's a dual ADSR similar to the Intellijel Dual ADSR except with a bit of a twist. Can't go into any more than that.

Mark also said the touch keyboard is expected to be out Nov / Dec, but he makes no promises. He's doing all the manufacturing himself. woah
Slapatron
Great modules. Only problem is I seems to be getting a lot of cross talk with them. My harmonic operator generates sound even if it isn't patched in. Anyone else experience this problem?
ununseptium
Slapatron wrote:
Great modules. Only problem is I seems to be getting a lot of cross talk with them. My harmonic operator generates sound even if it isn't patched in. Anyone else experience this problem?


No, I've not experienced this. The problem I did have was very quickly rectified though when I got in touch with Verbos Electronics through their website. I recommend you drop them a line.
ndkent
I received crosstalk with a 1990s PSU1 Doepfer power supply. I swapped cases with a better supply in it and no more crosstalk.

Yes, contact Mark, I think a few kinds of supplies have a few problems .
L.C.O.
lollz
I'm experiencing slide glitches with voltage multistage.
Looks like no one mentioned about this issue. Or maybe just my unit has this?
If I use only 0 to 5V range, It works totally fine, though.


0V ~ 10V ~ 0V Slide


0V ~ 5V ~ 0V Slide
Dogma
While Id like all his modules I think the Multistage is probably the one I want the most after ignoring it initially. Still love to see a thorough demo showing what it can do because
In theory, a sophisticated enough control voltage source can replace all of the control voltage sources in a modular system. That includes saw, square, pulse, triangle LFOs, AR, AD, ADSR, multistage envelopes, tracking generators, quantizers and of course sequencers.

sounds like a throw down! Im trying o wrap my head around it but Im not sure I grasp its power yet...
Hanz
On the complex oscillator...

mritenburg wrote:
Yes, all signal outputs work simultaneously. And yes, mod cv modulates the depth of mod index. The only thing that is not obvious from the panel is that when the mod bus is set to a.m. it only amplitude modulates the master output, whereas f.m. applies to all 4 signals in the right hand oscillator.


I accidentally ran into this observation last night. At first, I thought I must have broken it... phew...
Really wondering now, what is the design philosophy behind that decision?
There's probably a good reason, but right now I don't see it.... seriously, i just don't get it
mritenburg
Hanz wrote:
On the complex oscillator...

mritenburg wrote:
Yes, all signal outputs work simultaneously. And yes, mod cv modulates the depth of mod index. The only thing that is not obvious from the panel is that when the mod bus is set to a.m. it only amplitude modulates the master output, whereas f.m. applies to all 4 signals in the right hand oscillator.


I accidentally ran into this observation last night. At first, I thought I must have broken it... phew...
Really wondering now, what is the design philosophy behind that decision?
There's probably a good reason, but right now I don't see it.... :despair:


I seem to remember that a.m. works this way on the Buchla 259, but it's been years since I've played with a classic 259. Maybe someone here knows for sure?
Hanz
lollz wrote:
I'm experiencing slide glitches with voltage multistage.
Looks like no one mentioned about this issue. Or maybe just my unit has this?
If I use only 0 to 5V range, It works totally fine, though.


Mine does the same. It's a momentary 'spike' to 0V upon reaching the top of the voltage transient. Indeed it only occurs beyond 5V.
Hanz
ndkent wrote:
I received crosstalk with a 1990s PSU1 Doepfer power supply. I swapped cases with a better supply in it and no more crosstalk.

Yes, contact Mark, I think a few kinds of supplies have a few problems .


I'm happy to report that earlier crosstalk and noise niggles I had with my Verbos modules (especially the Dual Four Pole) are virtually resolved by switching to TipTop Studio Bus power.
Power solutions I tried earlier included Doepfer PSU2 /w TipTop Zeus Passive (1st generation), Make Noise Power and Monorocket power; each one was successively better, but I was not entirely happy until now I switched to Studio Bus.
Contrary to popular belief, the newer switch mode power solutions seem to work better for me that the linear Doepfers I started off with.

The Dual Four Pole also really benefited from a good calibration job, it really wasn't set up well when I received it. Mark was so kind to share the correct settings.
Calibration wasn't a difficult, but I found the trimmers are very sensitive (think CS-80...) - I would have vastly prefered those multiturns.
jvt
mritenburg wrote:

I seem to remember that a.m. works this way on the Buchla 259, but it's been years since I've played with a classic 259. Maybe someone here knows for sure?

Yes, this is the same way AM works on the original 259 as well as the 261e and Furthrrrr Generator.
cheliosheart
Don't know if this was already mentioned but I just saw this under new gear in stock @ analogue haven. applause

Verbos Electronics Composition System

Essentially, it's the current suite of modules in a custom powered case at a discounted price. Limited run of 20, looks like.

So tempting! cry
goiks
<edited to be nice>
Dogma
See Id buy that in a second. Its perfect for me and the time Im buying. But like make noise shared systems I just cant order one.
Yeah it might be the best country in the world but we pay WAAAY to much and and dont have access to these "systems" - FWP
mritenburg
Dogma wrote:
See Id buy that in a second. Its perfect for me and the time Im buying. But like make noise shared systems I just cant order one.
Yeah it might be the best country in the world but we pay WAAAY to much and and dont have access to these "systems" - FWP


You need to make friends with someone who lives in a country that's has them available at a good price. ;-)
gottberg
Analogue Haven ships worldwide. I'm nowhere near the states but bought an entire "system" [edited to clarify - modular system based on non Verbos modules] from them (whether or not I'm happy with the service provided is another story - I'm not endorsing them nor any other business).
reodjectz
goiks wrote:
<edited to be nice>


Now I'm curious.
Rigo
reodjectz wrote:
goiks wrote:
<edited to be nice>


Now I'm curious.

Curious like seeing 6 different modules in that picture ?
hottlipps
Whoa, that's a nice discount.
ununseptium
Rigo wrote:
reodjectz wrote:
goiks wrote:
<edited to be nice>


Now I'm curious.

Curious like seeing 6 different modules in that picture ?


No, just 5.
Rigo
ununseptium wrote:
Rigo wrote:
reodjectz wrote:
goiks wrote:
<edited to be nice>


Now I'm curious.

Curious like seeing 6 different modules in that picture ?


No, just 5.

Oops, you're right oops Thought that it was always half grey/half black for one module ... now I checked the screws properly. Which of course could go wrong on such a small image if they were simply left out hihi
Or blame it on lack of availability and funds sad banana
klontart
Hanz wrote:
The Dual Four Pole also really benefited from a good calibration job, it really wasn't set up well when I received it. Mark was so kind to share the correct settings.
Calibration wasn't a difficult, but I found the trimmers are very sensitive (think CS-80...) - I would have vastly prefered those multiturns.


Hanz, I just received mine new and calibration is way off, for both LP and HP section. Could you please PM me the calibration procedure?

Thanks,
Robert
Dogma
Love to hear thoughts on the Verbos Composition System http://www.analoguehaven.com/verboselectronics/compositionsystem/ - woops sorry. I forgot I had asked. Well Im just about to hit thw buy button. Just waiting on a shipping quote and if its not ridiculous ill buy it tomorrow! Still want to get a DPO and still going to get the ADDAC 703 and Rene. Powerful little rack Ill have after that
Hanz
klontart wrote:
Hanz, I just received mine new and calibration is way off, for both LP and HP section. Could you please PM me the calibration procedure?


I don't think Mark would mind me quoting this from his mails;

Quote:
"In some systems, the first batch of Dual Four Poles leaked noise from the power supply into the signal. It has been revised and hasn't been a problem since. More filtering of the power lines and a gain change on the hipass side solved it. The first production version was V2, and they were modded on that same board until recently. The trims are DC offset on each stage of the lopass side. The 1960s style filter stages do have some control bleed, but the level should be unity gain. With the resonance down, cutoff up and a signal going through they should be trimmed to 5.6v at TP1, TP2, TP3, TP4.

The resonance control is slow (optical element), and much more sensitive in the lower range. It should definitely not be subtle though. It should be very wet and juicy sounding. If the trims are not right, it will effect the depth of the resonance. "


and some additional comments from Mark (some slightly curious remarks in there). I have to say he's entirely right on the power supply issue - after I moved to a TipTop Zeus Studio Bus solution, my remaining noise issues were greatly reduced. Still, the calibration is an important thing to check.

Quote:
"It concerns me that the trims would be way out of control. It is true that the module is very voltage dependent and that Euro power supplies do not seem to be very reliable. I have increased the power regulation considerably from where it was, but the core of the design is lo-fi by nature. The signal going through the filter stages has to be very small and then boosted way up to get back to Euro level, which makes it noisy.
It has a unique character, and is certainly not a general purpose do-all filter. I hope that what it does is interesting enough to overlook it's shortcomings."


Let me know if this helps.
Be aware that, when adjusting trimmers, some mutually influence each other. That means, you may want to go over them a few times until measurements are all 'in line'.
That said, they nature of the trimmers (at least on mine) make exact calibration quite difficult. But 'ballpark figure' of 5.6V indeed works correctly and makes the filter work better (including minimization of the voltage offset).
klontart
I have a modest MakeNoise system, 9-10 modules, and yesterday I finally received 4 of the 5 Verbos modules that make up the Composition system. (The Harmonic osc was delayed.)

Only had a single day with them, but already love both filters. Lots of character, very analogue, powerful, gritty at the right places. Quite unique.

Much more overlap between the DPO and Verbos Complex osc of course, but they're different. There's too much in there to compare in such short time, but the 'Harmonic' sections are differently sounding. Need more time though. Lots of power in the Verbos Timbre circuit btw, cool on low frequencies.

The Multistage is great, and very flexible. Like it quite a bit, but again need more time to learn it. Not sure yet how I will use it.

The modules look very nice, thick front panels, good feel in the knobs, very nice layout, quality stuff.

From this very first impression I'd say I'd be very happy with a Composition system. My only worry is the case, it's already almost completely filled and more modules are coming.
klontart
Thanks Hanz! I'll give it a try, much appreciated.

I needed a 2.5-3V negative offset to the cutoff of the LP sections of the dual four pole to really close it with the knob fully CCW. If that's caused by PSU irregularities, wow...

Regarding character of this filter, wow, loving it.
Dogma
klontart wrote:
I have a modest MakeNoise system, 9-10 modules, and yesterday I finally received 4 of the 5 Verbos modules that make up the Composition system. (The Harmonic osc was delayed.)

Only had a single day with them, but already love both filters. Lots of character, very analogue, powerful, gritty at the right places. Quite unique.

Much more overlap between the DPO and Verbos Complex osc of course, but they're different. There's too much in there to compare in such short time, but the 'Harmonic' sections are differently sounding. Need more time though. Lots of power in the Verbos Timbre circuit btw, cool on low frequencies.

The Multistage is great, and very flexible. Like it quite a bit, but again need more time to learn it. Not sure yet how I will use it.

The modules look very nice, thick front panels, good feel in the knobs, very nice layout, quality stuff.

From this very first impression I'd say I'd be very happy with a Composition system. My only worry is the case, it's already almost completely filled and more modules are coming.


Thank you for that report. Id hope all manufacturing issues where sorted by now.
I found a video on Verbos Facebook site where a guy was running through his dual four pole and it really showed off how dusty and crunchy it sounded but still "hifi" - oozed quality and character. Im glad it doesnt self oscillate personally.
The multistage is the thing I initially thought Id like the most but am now thinking it may be a bit involved for the results achieved - again we will see.

The case initially put me off - theres very little room which really frames it as an instrument but I cant imagine just having he Verbos system and nothing else - especially modulation - I think youd be left wanting
klontart
Quality and character of the dual four pole confirmed. At the moment my fave of the four. Don't miss the self oscillation either, it's good the way it is.

I have the MakeNoise in it's own case, to make it an instrument by itself, breathing typical MakeNoise atmosphere. I have the same plans for the Verbos.

However, for both brands/instrument I need some growing space to keep up with cool new modules both guys will be releasing in the (near) future. So although both of these systems get their own case, they must be expandable, or at least large enough to cover a couple of years of fun.
klontart
Interesting, I'm comparing DPO and Verbos Complex Osc now. Generally speaking the Verbos is a little more beefy in the lower ends. The primary osc square wave on the DPO appears the be a little more narrow. The sine wave on the Verbos has a touch of triangle quality while the DPO sine appears cleaner.

The big difference though is in the wave folder circuit. The DPO's wave folding sound has a more of a 'hollow' quality, as if some feedback was applied in the algorithm, or maybe it's a vactrol. It is also much, much more extreme than the Verbos version, and of course it has the closed VCA trick with the timbre knob fully CCW.

The Verbos folder is less 'wet' sounding, more direct sounding, and less extreme. For more subtle folding work I prefer the Verbos, while the DPO's folder is great for more 'chemical' work.
wednesdayayay
I'm still waiting for that deliciously teased keyboard in the verbos family
echoplex
klontart wrote:
Interesting, I'm comparing DPO and Verbos Complex Osc now..


I would love to see the furthrrr generator in the game
klontart
That Verbos keyboard is looking sexy alright, but I'm using a Pro2 as input device for my eurorack, so I should be able to ignore the keyboard. hihi

I'm looking forward to the arrival of the harmonic osc, and that rumoured EG module. Wonder what's coming up after that. A 259e like digital OSC? SOU? Voltage processor?
klontart
echoplex wrote:
I would love to see the furthrrr generator in the game


Sorry, fresh out of Furthrrrs. wink But I share your curiosity. I do have a Bemi Easel with a semi complex osc that does do wave folding, but not the high order and symmetry functions. That's on my list, and I suspect it to be close to the Verbos, assuming the Verbos to be close to the Buchla 259 sound.
Orson
wednesdayayay wrote:
I'm still waiting for that deliciously teased keyboard in the verbos family


Had the chance to talk to Mark this weekend.
It should be released "soon" smile

He apparently also has a few new modules designs ready for after the keyboard /o/
(Really wonder what he has in store, would love to see the 288v adapted to euro)
Dogma
wednesdayayay wrote:
I'm still waiting for that deliciously teased keyboard in the verbos family


So whats the deal with this keyboard? Its obviously a capacitive affair but how many octaves? Is there anywhere to find any more information?
mritenburg
Dogma wrote:
how many octaves? Is there anywhere to find any more information?


From the limited photos and videos, it appears to be 2 1/2 octaves of keys with octave +/- arrow switches on the left side of the panel. You're correct, there is not much information out there yet, but that seems to be the Verbos marketing model - there is not much, if any, information until the modules are stocked and ready to ship.
Dogma
Verbos composition system is MINE - MINE. Just paid for it from Shawn from AnalogHeaven.

Thanks for all your help guys. The one thing I wasnt sure about was the complex osc -heard a demo last night that made me smile in all the right ways.
klontart
Congrats Dogma!! w00t
ym2612
This morning I was going over the Buchla 248 MARF manual in anticipation of possibly switching out my Rene for a Multistage. The 248 allows you to set various parameters on a per-stage basis, and those controls take up a large part of the very large panel. It doesn't seem like the Multistage has a way to set the time parameter for each stage individually, unless you use the second row of sliders to set the time CV - is that correct?
mritenburg
ym2612 wrote:
It doesn't seem like the Multistage has a way to set the time parameter for each stage individually, unless you use the second row of sliders to set the time CV - is that correct?


Technically, you could mult cv a and use each stage level for time and pitch, but you at correct, the VMS does not have an individual time setting per stage in the same way that the 248 did. The easiest way to do it just as you described, use cv b settings to control time for each stage.
finalmattasy
They finally have Verbos modules in Canada as of like today. Just ordered my monster modular:- a CO, an ATC and a massive Pittsburgh cell 48 to hold them in. Hope it'll fit in my living room.
clusterchord
finalmattasy wrote:
They finally have Verbos modules in Canada as of like today. Just ordered my monster modular:- a CO, an ATC and a massive Pittsburgh cell 48 to hold them in. Hope it'll fit in my living room.


i can bring a tank transporter to help you bring it home from the post office hihi








PS congratulations.. thumbs up


aside from sonics, one thing that draws me towards Verbos modules is absolutely gorgeous design, and ergonomic space, not crowded with jacks and knobs all over the place. deluxe euro. i hope he continues the series with more modules like function gen,292, attenuverters and 266 something, so a standalone verbos system is possible.. that would be hard to resist.


can someone get me out of the dark on ATC... is this a LPG and if it where do you feed the spike envelope, or is it a combo vactrol filter and discrete VCA..?

im hearing praise all over the place so it caught my ear..

thanks
wellurban
I love my VM, and I'm seriously tempted by the HO. Now I wish they'd make a VC mixer with lovely sliders to match!
Infinity Curve
They just got these in at Moog Audio in Toronto, had a wiggle last night. Well impressed, both by the sonics and the presentation. They look classy and sound awesome.
echoplex
any rumors or even facts about what is comming up next from verbos?
I know Marc keeps always quiet until modules are in stock at resellers, which is very laudable.. butmaybe you could spoil a bit or heard anything.
mritenburg
echoplex wrote:
any rumors or even facts


Facts: touch keyboard and envelope generator. That's all that is known. I haven't heard any rumors.
arpaxxe
Just bought a VHO off the forum here. Can't wait till it arrives!
finalmattasy
So I got my Complex Oscillator and Amplitude module in today. Gladly didn't blow them up when I wired them wrong and plugged it in.. and scratched my head thinking the Cell48 wasn't giving power. Finally I read the boat's instructions online and had the genius discovery of -12v aligning so you don't destroy your modules. I wonder what would blow up if it did blow up; a part of the module, the whole thing, or just the power plug bit.

Anyways, I think it's working properly because it sounds awesome. There really is a bit of magic to the feeling of arranging the units, patching them up and turning the knobs. Kinda like you just invented the guitar and discovered a C chord.
Dogma
MAnahattan Analog use reverse protection circuits so thankfully cant blow something up. Yeah its a strange, aweful moment powering up the first time.....
Kummer
Wow the cell series cases and the Verbos line really complement each other aesthetically.
ScubaGeek
mritenburg wrote:
echoplex wrote:
any rumors or even facts


Facts: touch keyboard and envelope generator. That's all that is known. I haven't heard any rumors.


That touch keyboard is what has me interested at the moment. I saw the photo on ModularGrid, looks really good. Of course, if such a device actually is released from Verbos (I know Doepfer promised a touch keyboard a few years ago, but it never did come out, did it?) it may not look like what's in that picture. But I still want to see what he comes up with.
echoplex
hopefully he will release when NAMM is starting confused
mritenburg
echoplex wrote:
hopefully he will release when NAMM is starting


I just assumed he was waiting until there are enough users with base systems who want a keyboard so he can recover his initial expenses in supplies and production ramp-up.
botstein
Episode #14 of my music tech podcast, The Distillery, is up with an interview of Mark Verbos of Verbos Electronics.

http://bit.ly/1kE4Db2
itunes:http://bit.ly/1pjsCgT
stitcher: http://bit.ly/1maPGDW
finalmattasy
Kummer wrote:
Wow the cell series cases and the Verbos line really complement each other aesthetically.


I think they look pretty nice too.

Spent a few hours with it today, very impressed.
jamb
Will verbos modules run off of a 15v blacet PSU?
mritenburg
jamb wrote:
Will verbos modules run off of a 15v blacet PSU?


You should ask Verbos Electronics directly. They're good about responding to email. My gut says no. There are some modules out there (Ken Stones CGS stuff comes to mind) that will run off both +/-12v and +/-15v supplies.
Navs
Am I right in thinking that when analogue addressing the Multistage it doesn't output a gate per stage/ step?
wednesdayayay
I'm excited to see his keyboard soon hopefully
thermionicjunky
mritenburg wrote:
jamb wrote:
Will verbos modules run off of a 15v blacet PSU?


You should ask Verbos Electronics directly. They're good about responding to email. My gut says no. There are some modules out there (Ken Stones CGS stuff comes to mind) that will run off both +/-12v and +/-15v supplies.


Considering the technology, it should work. Some modifications may be advisable for certain modules(resistor changes or recalibration). As far as I know, the only truly incompatible modules are some of the older Doepfer CEM modules. Those chips can't run on 15v.
SubliminalSandwich
wednesdayayay wrote:
I'm excited to see his keyboard soon hopefully


+1

with the keyboard, I might go for a verbos centred system..
Naut.Sirius
Hi, does anyone know a way to get the Multistage to do a clock reset? IE after it's stopped to start back up at stage 1?

I'm using a combination of Silent Way's sync (In Ableton Live 9) and Pamela's workout to get Rene to do this and it's super tight and while I can get the Multistage to start and stop with clock from Pamela it just picks back up where it left off instead of the start of the sequence.
mritenburg
Naut.Sirius wrote:
Hi, does anyone know a way to get the Multistage to do a clock reset? IE after it's stopped to start back up at stage 1?

I'm using a combination of Silent Way's sync (In Ableton Live 9) and Pamela's workout to get Rene to do this and it's super tight and while I can get the Multistage to start and stop with clock from Pamela it just picks back up where it left off instead of the start of the sequence.


Have you tried sending a pulse/gate to 'strobe' in with the 'analog' knob fully counter-clock wise? That should reset to stage 1.
Naut.Sirius
mritenburg wrote:
Naut.Sirius wrote:
Hi, does anyone know a way to get the Multistage to do a clock reset? IE after it's stopped to start back up at stage 1?

I'm using a combination of Silent Way's sync (In Ableton Live 9) and Pamela's workout to get Rene to do this and it's super tight and while I can get the Multistage to start and stop with clock from Pamela it just picks back up where it left off instead of the start of the sequence.


Have you tried sending a pulse/gate to 'strobe' in with the 'analog' knob fully counter-clock wise? That should reset to stage 1.


That does the trick 100% beautifully, thank you VERY MUCH Rockin' Banana! SlayerBadger!
Sleipnir
Navs wrote:
Am I right in thinking that when analogue addressing the Multistage it doesn't output a gate per stage/ step?

Not sure if this is your issue, but perhaps the gates are too short? Maybe try wiggling the Time knob - that one got me when using external clocks.
Verbose Multistage Description wrote:
If the sequence is advanced by an external pulse rather than the internal clock, the "time" control sets the slide length and the gate length in the "on" mode.


Unless you've latched Strobe, then
Verbose Multistage Description wrote:
When “stobe† is latched, the “gate out” will always be high.

seriously, i just don't get it
Navs
Sleipnir wrote:
Navs wrote:
Am I right in thinking that when analogue addressing the Multistage it doesn't output a gate per stage/ step?


...snip...

Unless you've latched Strobe, then
Verbose Multistage Description wrote:
When “stobe† is latched, the “gate out” will always be high.

seriously, i just don't get it


Yes, I'm in analogue address mode e.g. a triangle LFO sweeps the stages back and forth.

That would limit this mode's use for me. If it doesn't derive/ deliver a trigger on each newly addressed step a work-around would involve more modules.
Navs
Could other Multistage users confirm the fact that engaging slide changes the voltage range from 0-10V to -10v to +10v on a positive going slew?
Hanz
Navs wrote:
Could other Multistage users confirm the fact that engaging slide changes the voltage range from 0-10V to -10v to +10v on a positive going slew?


No, can't confirm that - mine doesn't do that.
Does yours? Or rather, did you expect that, and why?

Note that if you would like to use the Voltage Multistage as a audio rate waveform generator and you were perhaps concerned about the DC shift that would be introduced - just running the signal through a filter would effectively AC-couple the signal, thereby removing the DC component. No worries!

Navs wrote:
Am I right in thinking that when analogue addressing the Multistage it doesn't output a gate per stage/ step?


No, not right. It does output a gate - both on the shared Gate Out and individually per stage, also when using analog addressing.
As said, triggering the Strobe outputs a Gate signal.
Just to make sure we're talking here, it does (obviously) not trigger when the Analog cv input changes - a stage change would only effectuated by triggering Strobe input (or through Advance / internal clocking).

The only thing that I found really counter-intuitive using analogue addressing is that the CV output A appears to ignore when the stage switch is set to OFF.
Navs
Thanks, Hanz.

It turns out it's a bit more confusing than I first thought: it slews into the step that has slide activated. But it behaves differently depending on the step and its value.

Try this:

step 1 @ full, all other faders zero, slide active on 1, all others 'on'.

This gives me a voltage that ramps from -10v to +10v.

Now flip the settings so that step 1 = 0 & 'on' and step 2 is full & 'slide'.

This gives me a unipolar voltage, 0-10v.

It does it when clocked externally too, where the 'time' setting affects the slew rate.

The above is the case on pairs of steps, 1+2, 3+4 etc. so maybe it's part of the design. But it would have repercussions for other functions like envelopes and wave-shaping. hmmm.....
Navs
Hanz, did you edit your post with more information while was replying? lol I didn't see that.

Well, having a different bias per step would effectively limit its waveshaping to pulses as you won't get smooth/ equal transitions like this:

http://www.musicsynthesizer.com/diy/grant/CVtwister.html

I'll now check the voltage addressing again. I'm getting a permanently high gate output after pressing strobe for 2 seconds and applying a CV to 'analog'.
st1040
I find it a little annoying that people have to guess and get multimeters out to test equipment when it should be professionally documented ( and I don't mean the basic feature overview that comes with the modules) I'm not new to synths but I'm new to modular and Vebos system, so if some of you seasoned guys/girls are struggling to get to grips with basic features of the sequencer It really could do with addressing. Perhaps if we collectively send a few emails to the Verbos site he may get chance to support the module a little bit better.
Dogma
I gotta admit that Im pretty disapointed with the quality of the demos out there for the Verbos stuff. Theres 2 i think for the multistage neither of which show any of its potential.
The wiggler Brandon did the only good ones for the rest of the modules - the complex osc I wasnt sure if I liked as much as the DPO but Brandons demo confirmed its power - not much to go on. and Mark has him to thank for the Composition system on its way to me. Im actually going to contact Mark and really suggest he himself do some tutorials. As they are totally his creations they need and deserve more - everything really in the way of information. They have a nice "seller" mini video where the composition system is unveiled at the end - great. Not very useful
Actually when I saw him describe each module in a couple of the NAMM vids at the Verbos stand where Mark goes through each module in some depth and then I really understood what they where about.

Actually I think if a few or all of us email/facebook Mark and get some tutorials.

I initially became a bit bessoted with Make Noise Series and consequently had a case full of Make Noise modules. I understand them thanks to that series.
ym2612
Some of the best demos for the Multistage are actually for the Buchla format 247v, also built by Verbos and basically the same module as the Multistage.

http://buchlatech.blogspot.com/2013/05/video-of-new-verbos-247v-sequen tial.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7aemtAxB4k

I finally got mine on Friday, and it's very inspiring. Techno lines flow from it easily, but of course you can do a lot more with it than that.
mritenburg
ym2612 wrote:
Some of the best demos for the Multistage are actually for the Buchla format 247v, also built by Verbos and basically the same module as the Multistage.

http://buchlatech.blogspot.com/2013/05/video-of-new-verbos-247v-sequen tial.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7aemtAxB4k

I finally got mine on Friday, and it's very inspiring. Techno lines flow from it easily, but of course you can do a lot more with it than that.


Along those lines, anyone who owns a Verbos VMS, or wants to get a good idea of its' capabilities, should at least glance at the Buchla MARF manual: http://www.wavemakers-synth.com/buchla/marf_man.zip

Obviously, the Verbos VMS is not a clone of the Buchla MARF, but it does have many similar features and can achieve some of the same results. Conceptually, the MARF manual should provide ideas that can also be applied to patches using the VMS.
Navs
I don't need demo videos - the concept is familiar - and I have to admit that I enjoy scoping the output of new modules to see what's going on. hihi

However, another page of documentation would be welcome. For example, the minimum manual speed is not particularly slow. If the range were in the datasheet I would know if it's normal.

The time CV input also seems odd. Using an external CV of 5V, it seems to stop responding after about 4 o'clock on the (exponential?) pot.

Hanz, the individual gate outputs do go high when voltage addressing but the common gate output is permanently high. So, if I use a triangle LFO to run the sequencer in pendulum, I have no way of triggering an envelope on each step.

If no one else is getting similar results - the bipolar slew in particular - I guess I'll mail Mark Verbos.
ym2612
I was noticing that the slowest time on the internal clock was not that slow. Also, the positive time CV doesn't seem to make it any slower once you're at the slowest speed.
Naut.Sirius
ym2612 wrote:
I was noticing that the slowest time on the internal clock was not that slow. Also, the positive time CV doesn't seem to make it any slower once you're at the slowest speed.


I wonder if this has anything to do with Mark being a Techno musician, if it had been designed by a Drone musician instead...

Joking of course : )
Navs
Thanks, ym2612, that description fits what I experienced.
Sleipnir
Navs wrote:
However, another page of documentation would be welcome.

Totally. Also stuff like "how to patch an x-stage envelope" with a diagram.

Navs wrote:
If no one else is getting similar results - the bipolar slew in particular - I guess I'll mail Mark Verbos.

My slew test stayed 100% positive (though it may have had an overall offset once most sliders were toward max - not sure if my old Tek 2250 scope was "helping" or not). Definitely not the kind of response you were describing.
My slowest time without any CV inputs is about 1.5 sec p/stage. For slower I have to clock it externally through a divider.
Sounds like you should send Mark some pics of your scope readings.
Hanz
Well, I'll double check your questions later tonight Navs.
Good thing I also enjoy 'scoping out' modules... Mr. Green

But one thing I absolutely agree on, that is that the (knob and cv) control ranges for a number of features on multiple Verbos modules do not always seem optimal.
Sometimes the range appears very limited (leading to very subtle differences at large control sweeps - for example on the Complex Oscillator 'harmonics' section).
And other times, the effective control range is smaller than the full range of the knob, leading to 'dead zones' - for example on the Dual Four Pole resonance controls (which, on mine, appear only useful from until around 50% of the knob range - anything beyond 12 o'clock does not appear to make any difference).
Voggg
Yeah I love the 4 pole but I don't notice any increase at all when the resonance goes past noon.
mritenburg
Sleipnir wrote:
My slowest time without any CV inputs is about 1.5 sec p/stage. For slower I have to clock it externally through a divider.


After reading some of these posts I had to check my VMS. The slowest my internal clock goes is approx. 40-45 sec p/stage without slide engage. With slide engaged approx. 30 sec p/stage. Also, applying an external voltage to the 'time c.v.' input does not increase the duration beyond that sec p/stage. I say approximately because I am using the stopwatch on my phone and not exactly scientific.
Dogma
can someone tell me what the back of the verbos modules look like? Do they have a Cwejman steel panel at the back? I know theyre all skiff friendly so they must be shallow. JUst trying to work out some shipping for my composition system
wellurban
Sleipnir wrote:
Navs wrote:
However, another page of documentation would be welcome.

Totally. Also stuff like "how to patch an x-stage envelope" with a diagram.


I made a video and posted some patch notes about this a while ago, on a different thread. I'll see whether I can find it.
Hanz
Mritenburg, do you actually mean 40-45 resp 30 sec per stage?
Or rather 4 - 4.5 sec per stage? Perhaps 40-45 sec for all 8 stages?

Checked on mine - slowest rate is somewhere in the range of 3 to 4 seconds per stage. I didn't notice much of a difference with / without slew.
However, I just 'eyeballed' it, didn't have a stopwatch near.

Navs, I double-checked your question using the scenario you described.
Mine still stays within the 0-10v range, no negative voltages for sure.
There is also no difference in the behavior of stage 1 compared to stage 2.
I'd recommend you get in touch with Mark for further troubleshooting.
arpaxxe
Got my VHO. I'm loving it. So smoooooooooth.

whistlin'
ym2612
mritenburg wrote:
After reading some of these posts I had to check my VMS. The slowest my internal clock goes is approx. 40-45 sec p/stage without slide engage. With slide engaged approx. 30 sec p/stage. Also, applying an external voltage to the 'time c.v.' input does not increase the duration beyond that sec p/stage. I say approximately because I am using the stopwatch on my phone and not exactly scientific.


40-45 seconds? That seems crazy, and way more than I'm getting out of my multistage. Maybe there's an issue in the batch mine is from. I'll send an email.
Hanz
Dogma wrote:
can someone tell me what the back of the verbos modules look like? Do they have a Cwejman steel panel at the back? I know theyre all skiff friendly so they must be shallow. JUst trying to work out some shipping for my composition system


There is bare PCB on the back side, with a few trimmers visible.
Power connectors are unshrouded.
Modules are all very shallow, skiff friendly indeed.
mritenburg
Hanz wrote:
Mritenburg, do you actually mean 40-45 resp 30 sec per stage?
Or rather 4 - 4.5 sec per stage? Perhaps 40-45 sec for all 8 stages


I do mean 40-45 seconds per individual stage without slide engaged, and 30 seconds per individual stage with slide engaged.

I should note that my VMS was from the first batch available. It did have two bugs and I sent it in for repair earlier this year.
mritenburg
mritenburg wrote:
Hanz wrote:
Mritenburg, do you actually mean 40-45 resp 30 sec per stage?
Or rather 4 - 4.5 sec per stage? Perhaps 40-45 sec for all 8 stages


I do mean 40-45 seconds per individual stage without slide engaged, and 30 seconds per individual stage with slide engaged.

I should note that my VMS was from the first batch available. It did have two bugs and I sent it in for repair earlier this year.


Ok, so a little back-peddling here. I measured 40-45 seconds per step when the module was cold and I had first powered on my cabinet.

After the module had warmed up after being powered for awhile I measured 8-10 seconds per stage at the lowest setting.

I powered off my cabinet to see if I can repeat that 40-45 seconds to capture a video.
Hanz
BTW on the topic of bugs... did the (small) bug ever got solved concerning the momentary CV 'negative spike' upon reaching the max amplitude, which occurs only if the CV is set beyond 5V?
wellurban
Sleipnir wrote:
Totally. Also stuff like "how to patch an x-stage envelope" with a diagram.


Here's the thread: no diagram, but a video describing how to patch a multi-stage envelope.

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=119265
wellurban
mritenburg wrote:
mritenburg wrote:
Hanz wrote:
Mritenburg, do you actually mean 40-45 resp 30 sec per stage?
Or rather 4 - 4.5 sec per stage? Perhaps 40-45 sec for all 8 stages


I do mean 40-45 seconds per individual stage without slide engaged, and 30 seconds per individual stage with slide engaged.

I should note that my VMS was from the first batch available. It did have two bugs and I sent it in for repair earlier this year.


Ok, so a little back-peddling here. I measured 40-45 seconds per step when the module was cold and I had first powered on my cabinet.

After the module had warmed up after being powered for awhile I measured 8-10 seconds per stage at the lowest setting.

I powered off my cabinet to see if I can repeat that 40-45 seconds to capture a video.


I haven't timed it myself, but here's a piece where I used the VM as a "conductor", using the stages to control the actions to control the rhythm and trigger drones to define various "movements". It goes through each stage just once, and is 3:26 long, so averages about 25s per stage, but it wasn't at maximum time between stages.

[s]http://soundcloud.com/and-per-se-and/voltage-conductor[/s]
http://soundcloud.com/and-per-se-and/voltage-conductor

(I was using CVb to affect the stage time, so it may be that putting -ve CV into the Time in is needed to get very long stages, but it works)
mritenburg
Hanz wrote:
BTW on the topic of bugs... did the (small) bug ever got solved concerning the momentary CV 'negative spike' upon reaching the max amplitude, which occurs only if the CV is set beyond 5V?


I'm not familiar with that bug. The two bugs I had fixed were:

1. 2 gates output per stage
2. Slide only worked on 1/2 the stages. It was a weird bug, some times it was the odd stages and some times the even stages, but always 1/2 of the stages.

Both were fixed fast and free of charge. I think the total turn-around was 2 weeks with the bulk of the time simply being the shipping.
gonkulator
Dogma wrote:
can someone tell me what the back of the verbos modules look like? Do they have a Cwejman steel panel at the back? I know theyre all skiff friendly so they must be shallow. JUst trying to work out some shipping for my composition system


No back cover plate like Cwejman, so the power connector pins are exposed, but connecting a ribbon cable helps protect it. And they are shallow.
Sleipnir
wellurban wrote:
Sleipnir wrote:
Totally. Also stuff like "how to patch an x-stage envelope" with a diagram.

Here's the thread: no diagram, but a video describing how to patch a multi-stage envelope.
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=119265

Yeah, your video is the only reason I ever figured it out. thumbs up
Lots of self patching required, but I guess that's what you get for all that versatility.

By the way, warmed up, nothing plugged in, I can't get mine to take more than 12 sec to complete a cycle of the 8 stages. That seems awfully fast compared to ya'all. All the Time VC's work, it just won't go slower than that. It does go nicely into audio territory at around 10:00 though.
Maybe there's a trimmer somewhere to slow the whole thing down a bit?
I just got used to clocking it via divider -- G8 in BIN mode for 1/255 FTW SlayerBadger!
I might even admit to plugging that into an RCD in /64 mode for multiple minutes per stage/step. woah
Downside is you lose any direct timing control. Plugging CVB into Time is just cool.
Navs
I've been in touch with Mark and fortunately it sounds like something is up with this particular unit.
Selador
Woah-- like all VMs?

This is good to know, I was planning on picking one up very soon.

Edit: or is "this particular unit" referring to just yours in a past post?
Navs
Bloody hell, that's why I wrote 'this particular unit' lol Yes, the one I have is malfunctioning.
Navs
Picked up a replacement Voltage Multistage yesterday: slide and time work as expected/ described by others i.e. output voltages are only unipolar and the minimum frequency is some seconds per step. Thanks for your help!
Dogma
Do you guys know if Verbos modules hav reverse polarity protection? THeres a thread where we are discussing who does this and put Verbos in the list but I just wanna make sure
Voggg
I noticed that the highpass on my Dual Four Pole clicks at a certain point near the top of the frequency spectrum (aboiut 3:30 on the knob). Normally I don't have to move it that high, but it's still slightly annoying. Does anyone else have this problem?
Hanz
Clicks? Audio, or the knob?
Voggg
audio click. It happens at the same point whether I'm turning the knob or using cv. Above that point, the sound is noticeably more muted.
gonkulator
Voggg wrote:
I noticed that the highpass on my Dual Four Pole clicks at a certain point near the top of the frequency spectrum (aboiut 3:30 on the knob). Normally I don't have to move it that high, but it's still slightly annoying. Does anyone else have this problem?


I haven't noticed any click, tried it several ways. I should run it through the O'Tool to see if it detects it.
Arders Bergdahl
The first 8 harmonics on the Harminics Oscillator are the "pure" harmonics (1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5. 1/6, 1/7, 1/8, 1/9) or normalized to 12 tone tempered scale?

And is the first the fundamental (1/1) or the octave (1/2)
ryangaston
Arders Bergdahl--my understanding is that they are all based on clock division, and as a result should be the pure harmonics. The first slider is the fundamental, second the octave, so on.
Naut.Sirius
gonkulator wrote:
Voggg wrote:
I noticed that the highpass on my Dual Four Pole clicks at a certain point near the top of the frequency spectrum (aboiut 3:30 on the knob). Normally I don't have to move it that high, but it's still slightly annoying. Does anyone else have this problem?


I haven't noticed any click, tried it several ways. I should run it through the O'Tool to see if it detects it.


No click here as well.
Vcs3
I put together a patch sheet for my Verbos modules. Let me know if I made any mistakes. I could also use ideas on how to represent the toggle switches properly. Happy Holidays!

Download the Verbos Electronics Patch Sheet here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4o1od587d9hffjm/Verbos%20patch%20sheet.pdf?d l=0

placidhouse
thanks for that, Vcs3! maybe for the toggle switches, instead of one large dot, three small stacked dots. you could even frame them inside of the large circle if needed.
Vcs3
Good idea placidhouse. The patch chart now has two or three circles representing the different toggles. I also made the entire chart gray so it will be easier to draw on.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4o1od587d9hffjm/Verbos%20patch%20sheet.pdf?d l=0

Naut.Sirius
Vcs3 wrote:
I put together a patch sheet for my Verbos modules. Let me know if I made any mistakes. I could also use ideas on how to represent the toggle switches properly. Happy Holidays!

Download the Verbos Electronics Patch Sheet here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4o1od587d9hffjm/Verbos%20patch%20sheet.pdf?d l=0



Thank you very much for this!
gonkulator
Thanks for that. w00t
Van
Navs wrote:
Picked up a replacement Voltage Multistage yesterday: slide and time work as expected/ described by others i.e. output voltages are only unipolar and the minimum frequency is some seconds per step. Thanks for your help!


what is the best way to test this. I think mine is acting the same way. Is this a problem with the production runs?
Van
Navs wrote:
Picked up a replacement Voltage Multistage yesterday: slide and time work as expected/ described by others i.e. output voltages are only unipolar and the minimum frequency is some seconds per step. Thanks for your help!


what is the best way to test this?
Van
mritenburg wrote:
Sleipnir wrote:
My slowest time without any CV inputs is about 1.5 sec p/stage. For slower I have to clock it externally through a divider.


After reading some of these posts I had to check my VMS. The slowest my internal clock goes is approx. 40-45 sec p/stage without slide engage. With slide engaged approx. 30 sec p/stage. Also, applying an external voltage to the 'time c.v.' input does not increase the duration beyond that sec p/stage. I say approximately because I am using the stopwatch on my phone and not exactly scientific.



wait. wait. the results are dramatically difference. what is correct?
mritenburg
Van wrote:
mritenburg wrote:
Sleipnir wrote:
My slowest time without any CV inputs is about 1.5 sec p/stage. For slower I have to clock it externally through a divider.


After reading some of these posts I had to check my VMS. The slowest my internal clock goes is approx. 40-45 sec p/stage without slide engage. With slide engaged approx. 30 sec p/stage. Also, applying an external voltage to the 'time c.v.' input does not increase the duration beyond that sec p/stage. I say approximately because I am using the stopwatch on my phone and not exactly scientific.



wait. wait. the results are dramatically difference. what is correct?


You missed my follow-up post later in the thread. I was getting 45 seconds per step when the module was cold and first powered on. After the module warned up I was getting approx 8-10 seconds per step.
GNE
Quote:

Van wrote:
mritenburg wrote:
Sleipnir wrote:
My slowest time without any CV inputs is about 1.5 sec p/stage. For slower I have to clock it externally through a divider.


After reading some of these posts I had to check my VMS. The slowest my internal clock goes is approx. 40-45 sec p/stage without slide engage. With slide engaged approx. 30 sec p/stage. Also, applying an external voltage to the 'time c.v.' input does not increase the duration beyond that sec p/stage. I say approximately because I am using the stopwatch on my phone and not exactly scientific.



wait. wait. the results are dramatically difference. what is correct?


You missed my follow-up post later in the thread. I was getting 45 seconds per step when the module was cold and first powered on. After the module warned up I was getting approx 8-10 seconds per step.



This may be a power / case issue.

I originally installed mine in a Pitts Cell case and the slowest time was not slow at all and often would be drastically different speeds on each start up. Slowest speed would also be affected by the other modules I had installed in the case.

I have since installed it in a Doepfer case. Now it starts up with a consistent slow speed. I haven't timed it, but the lowest clock speed is very slow.
L.C.O.
Any news on the release of the keyboard?...
I thought it was supposed to be end of this year, no?

Van
[quote="mritenburg"]
Van wrote:


You missed my follow-up post later in the thread. I was getting 45 seconds per step when the module was cold and first powered on. After the module warned up I was getting approx 8-10 seconds per step.


did Mark ever tell anyone the expected behavior?
L.C.O.
well, apparently any moment now...
$799

WhiteIsBeautiful
L.C.O. wrote:
well, apparently any moment now...
$799



these look great. is size the at or around 104hp??
scottmoon
[quote="WhiteIsBeautiful"]
L.C.O. wrote:
well, apparently any moment now...
$799

these look great. is size the at or around 104hp??


I bet they are 84hp
ym2612
Regarding multistage step length, mine is running at about 1.5 seconds maximum, and Mark offered to make a modification to make it run longer. I'll be sending mine in after I get back from vacation.
WhiteIsBeautiful
[quote="scottmoon"]
WhiteIsBeautiful wrote:
L.C.O. wrote:
well, apparently any moment now...
$799

these look great. is size the at or around 104hp??


I bet they are 84hp


i think your right. judging from the picture of the keyboard with 3 other verbos modules above it would be safe to say 84 or under 104. altho price is high,lets see if i can save up lol
L.C.O.
The big question for me is if/how the keyboard handles chords...
WhiteIsBeautiful
they have not updated the verbos website but just posted on facebook
"Touchplate Keyboards are on their to way to the USA and Europe!

Happy Holidays"
Naut.Sirius
Hmmm, I just bought a Verbos Composition System and am loving it.

But besides just wanting this keyboard because it matches my system etc what can it do that I couldn't do from several pressure points (and Brains) or from any of my midi keyboard through MI Yarns?
ginorobair
Looking forward to trying one out in Anaheim next month.
skyshaver
$799? I can not afford that. Darn. With an enclosure and a psu it will be over 1k$. waah
cger
Shoot.. yeah, $799 is really pricey. But that's the case with all Verbos modules, they are up there at a highest price point in Euro, which is a bummer.
I have an empty Pits 90HP Cell case that was $209, you are totally right. $1009 for the cheapest way to have that keyboard.
It looks like a real cool keyboard, with the 8 slot tunable memory keys, but for that price it better has an arpeggiator like Easel.
Dogma
I know all the Verbos modules are top $$ - I got the Composition System.
Dont know what to think about this yet. If it has a bunch of features not evident Ill bite. Similar thing in Buchla land would be that or more.
Now Sputnik is producing great looking modules Ive got a cheap way to flesh out the composition system but I remember him saying a number of ties in IDOW that he didnt want a keyboard to play notes so maybe not
Sleipnir
GNE wrote:

This may be a power / case issue.

I originally installed mine in a Pitts Cell case and the slowest time was not slow at all and often would be drastically different speeds on each start up. Slowest speed would also be affected by the other modules I had installed in the case.

I have since installed it in a Doepfer case. Now it starts up with a consistent slow speed. I haven't timed it, but the lowest clock speed is very slow.


I just rearranged my system to move the VMS from the Cell90 to a Doepfer 6u with a PSU2. Time per stage is now.. about 1.5 sec. (i.e., no change)
Mark said he could drop the overall speed by swapping a capacitor, but that would mean shipping it back to him.
It's good enough for most things so I'm going to live with it for now. If I need glacially slow, I have other sequencers.
Van
mritenburg wrote:


You missed my follow-up post later in the thread. I was getting 45 seconds per step when the module was cold and first powered on. After the module warned up I was getting approx 8-10 seconds per step.



ok....so I just got my multistage and I am getting no where NEAR 8-10 SECONDS a step with the knob fully to the right.

(I am getting 4ish seconds timed on an iphone)

What is the real expected behavior for this thing - it seems that time is all over the place with different people and different power. ?

Monorocket power here 3.5amp case. not even half full.
Dogma
Seems that way - who as the composition system with the provided case? Ill have mine in a week so we can use that as the "control" - its the case and powersupply especially chosen for the system so it would be the natural "control" 4.5 seconds is simply not long enough.
sprout23
I have two multistages and one I get around 1.5 sec and the other I get a little over 3 sec per step, I tried them with two different power supplies(tip top and monorocket) and get the same results, I usually clock them from other modules so I never realized the difference, yeh what should they be at?
Dogma
OH man Im not happy about this. Has anyone contacted mark for an offical word on what the specs are? It most certainly shouldnt be different from module to module. Especially for the premium we have paid for these.
thetwlo
just got a new one and it's about 10 seconds per step (in Doepfer monster case)
Al
When I run the VMS with a LFO using the "analog" input the main gate output stays high for all stages. Is this normal behavior?
Dogma
right so no ones unit operates the same huh? Should we start a thread and measure what we get? And then if theyre as different as suggested here well pass it to Mark for a resolution.
Van
How could all of you people have JUST figured out this issue! angry

I usually wait till all of you figure out the bugs b4 I buy this stuff! hihi

Maybe Verbos electronics should consult with BEMI on quality control. thumbs up
Van
Al wrote:
When I run the VMS with a LFO using the "analog" input the main gate output stays high for all stages. Is this normal behavior?


when in STROBE mode? Yeah my gate light is on 100% of them time.
Van
thetwlo wrote:
just got a new one and it's about 10 seconds per step (in Doepfer monster case)


wanna trade? Mine is better for Techno w00t
Al
Van wrote:
Al wrote:
When I run the VMS with a LFO using the "analog" input the main gate output stays high for all stages. Is this normal behavior?


when in STROBE mode? Yeah my gate light is on 100% of them time.


Yes, thanks, I'm referring to "strobe mode," when you hold the button down for a couple seconds.

Anyone else?
Al
Dogma wrote:
Seems that way - who as the composition system with the provided case? Ill have mine in a week so we can use that as the "control" - its the case and powersupply especially chosen for the system so it would be the natural "control" 4.5 seconds is simply not long enough.


I have a composition system with the provided case and the slowest stage time for me is about 1.5 seconds.

For those that have the slow stage times, does your VMS go well into audio rate? Checking it with an O'tool my can get roughly up to around a G3-C4.
rydan
Hm. As I have just concluded that both the Harmonic Osc and the Voltage Multistage I received are faulty, this thread doesn't really inspire any confidence. How can spec:s differ so much on modules that should be equal and use the same components? As far as I could see, there isn't even any calibration pots on the VMS.

If these were some dead cheap noname modules, fine, but that's not really the case now is it?
Van
Hmmm..
thetwlo
Al wrote:
For those that have the slow stage times, does your VMS go well into audio rate? Checking it with an O'tool my can get roughly up to around a G3-C4.


mine goes down to about 10 secs and goes well into audio rate, haven't checked how high.
Van
Just tested another one 3 seconds

This is strange.
Rigo
Slowest about 3.5s ... the same for all the settings of the switches.
Van
Just looked for trimmers - didn't see any.

Could the component used for speed have that wide of tolerance?


Do any of your modules have serial numbers?
Wonder if different production runs used different components.
Dogma
So has anyone contacted Mark? Surely he must be aware of the VMS issues....Id be interested to see if it was a certain production run (which im hoping - also hoping mine is not art of that run if its the case)
Van
Ok just moved to make noise powered elite. 4.8 seconds.

I do have to say this module is very good! Much better than the Bemi !
melodydad
I think that it is regrettable that Mark is not an active MW participant and, according to drumsofd00m in a post I started suggesting a Verbos sub-forum, not only is he not a member but apparently he has no interest in becoming involved.

When you think how helpful most other manufacturers are . . . . and as has been stated, these are not exactly cheap modules.

I think I would ask the dealer to test any Verbos modules prior to shipping as there seem to be quality control issues . . . .
Van
melodydad wrote:
I think that it is regrettable that Mark is not an active MW participant and, according to drumsofd00m in a post I started suggesting a Verbos sub-forum, not only is he not a member but apparently he has no interest in becoming involved.

When you think how helpful most other manufacturers are . . . . and as has been stated, these are not exactly cheap modules.

I think I would ask the dealer to test any Verbos modules prior to shipping as there seem to be quality control issues . . . .



It's called the Don Buchla complex. They mimic their idol.

I think it's cute , funny and obvious.


I say this with peace and love.
mritenburg
I don't understand why the people experiencing issues are not contacting Verbos Electronics directly. I had an issue with my VMS. I contacted Verbos, sent the module in, they fixed it, and sent it back to me. End of story.
mousegarden
I've got the Four Pole filter, and it sounds great to me, seems to cut off pretty abruptly, but it hasn't been an issue. I like the strange way it has lumps and bumps, and reacts like a really extreme Vactrol sometimes, I'm planning on getting the Complex Oscilator, and the Harmonic Oscilator ASAP if I can find them, I llike his stuff, very Buchla-esque. As for Verbos not getting involved here ? can you blame him ? ......... hihi

MG.
Hirsbro
damn it all this makes me nervous, got a harmonic osc. on the way confused
penny
mritenburg wrote:
I don't understand why the people experiencing issues are not contacting Verbos Electronics directly. I had an issue with my VMS. I contacted Verbos, sent the module in, they fixed it, and sent it back to me. End of story.


NO REPLY from verbos URL.

Maybe you can ask for me ?


Pretty please. Ok tnk u.
WhiteIsBeautiful
took a little while to get a reply via verbos contact but they did get back to me and very helpful/professional. nanners
thetwlo
mritenburg wrote:
I don't understand why the people experiencing issues are not contacting Verbos Electronics directly. I had an issue with my VMS. I contacted Verbos, sent the module in, they fixed it, and sent it back to me. End of story.


Well, I think a lot are just trying to figure out if they have a problem. Seems like a huge range from these modules.
Are there specs posted? So it's easy for one to determine if it's working as it should.

Sadly, many modules don't have specs on the manufacturer's site or the included documentation. Odd as this was always the norm for audio/music gear.
mousegarden
Hirsbro wrote:
damn it all this makes me nervous, got a harmonic osc. on the way confused


I wouldn't be nervous, everything has the potential to go wrong, but the impression I get just from owning my Four Pole, is that it's very well made indeed, and it's also very nice to use, lovely feel to the knobs, very tactile. And of course, it sounds great. The filter has been the basis of a lot of pieces for me lately, and I've had no trouble at all with it, touch wood ! hihi
I must admit though, that some modules are almost impossible to tell if they are working correctly or not ! they are so weird anyway ! but I tend to adopt the attitude that if it sounds like you can use it then it's great ! It may have a fault, but who cares ? if it sounds good.

MouseGarden.
rydan
Right. Now I have exchanged the Harmonic Osc and Voltage Multistage for another pair. The always excellent Ulf/escape from noise just replaced them. Guess what? Different problems.

The harmonic osc seems fine, apart from the "center" control in Harmonic Scan. With "Width" at min (fully CCW), it does nothing. If I turn up width fully, so that all harmonics are present, and then start turning "center", it does nothing for the first quarter or so, and then all the harmonics just go silent again with just a slight increase of the knob. Rest of the knob rotation, the harmonics just stay silent. Anybody know if this if possible to calibrate somehow, or if this unit is malfunctioning as well. (The harmonic scan worked as it should on the previous unit, the one where the frequency knob was erroneous.

Voltage Multistage works, sort of. It works just fine, until time control is at 3 o'clock or more (slower). Then the multistage just stays on the same step indefinitely, and if in slide mode, slides down to negatvive voltages for CV a. That said, just before that, I'd say that time is around 30 seconds or so per step. So, it seems this unit can go extremely slow for some reason, and misbehaves when it's moving much slower than specified minimum (which might be reasonable, if the electronics aren't designed for such low speeds).

What the fuck?
ununseptium
Can anyone here tell me if there's a more elegant solution to clock the Voltage Multistage from an external source? I've just been using the Start CV in to reset it and it's a bit clunky to say the least.
ym2612
The Advance input should work fine for that.
ununseptium
ym2612 wrote:
The Advance input should work fine for that.

So that's just like a 'Clock In'?
sprout23
ununseptium wrote:
ym2612 wrote:
The Advance input should work fine for that.

So that's just like a 'Clock In'?


Yes it advances to the next step when it receives a signal
ununseptium
sprout23 wrote:
ununseptium wrote:
ym2612 wrote:
The Advance input should work fine for that.

So that's just like a 'Clock In'?


Yes it advances to the next step when it receives a signal


Thanks for that. I think I'm just being a bit thick trying to get my head round this.
Dogma
try as I might I cannot hear any signal either side of 5 oclock on my 4 Pole.
This might be perfectly normal but its a lot of travel for silence.... its exactly the same both sides
Doglien
mousegarden wrote:

I must admit though, that some modules are almost impossible to tell if they are working correctly or not ! they are so weird anyway ! but I tend to adopt the attitude that if it sounds like you can use it then it's great ! It may have a fault, but who cares ? if it sounds good.

MouseGarden.


As a non-scientist, I'm a big fan of this attitude wink
quadrupole
Dogma wrote:
try as I might I cannot hear any signal either side of 5 oclock on my 4 Pole.
This might be perfectly normal but its a lot of travel for silence.... its exactly the same both sides


my DFP also has a significant amount of silent travel, however when I start adding modulation via the cv inputs the range opens up. It's really my kind of filter, lots of interesting interactions with the incoming sound.

On the low pass side I have signal until about about 10 o'clock if I am turning the dial counter clockwise. After 10 o'clock the filter is shut completely. High pass side is opposite, with signal until about 2 o'clock if I am turning the dial clockwise. Again the range widens as soon as I add modulation.
Dogma
its exactly the same both sides - Id say its just normal operation. Theres a lot of travel on the pot as is so I guess its smooth as it is. I havent hit it with much modulation which means I dont really know it. To be honest when Im in front of my system I get completely lost - I need a patchbay of CV in/outs...
theres so much to patch and I know I need a shit load of multiples to really get the most out of it. ANy suggestions (without derailing the thread in general)
quadrupole
I don't have a composition system, so unfortunately I can't help you there! It's a complex instrument, so I imagine it will really take some time to start maximizing it. What can I say, I'm jealous!

Also, I'm sure the composition system would benefit from a couple of standard envelopes (or the new Verbos envelope of course) and a couple of other utilities. I'd probably add a mutable links and a couple of mixers.
mritenburg
Dogma wrote:
its exactly the same both sides - Id say its just normal operation. Theres a lot of travel on the pot as is so I guess its smooth as it is. I havent hit it with much modulation which means I dont really know it. To be honest when Im in front of my system I get completely lost - I need a patchbay of CV in/outs...
theres so much to patch and I know I need a shit load of multiples to really get the most out of it. ANy suggestions (without derailing the thread in general)



I find that Stackables work well with my Verbos modules. I prefer Stackables to mults. Also, arranging your modules so that they impose a signal flow can be helpful. For instance, I arrange my modules so the audio flows from the oscillators in the bottom left-side of my cabinet up to the output mixer in the top right side of my cabinet. Filters, LPG's, etc are positioned along the path in-between those two points. Modules that produce control voltages are positioned outside that signal flow. I find it easy to keep track of I/O that way.
Vcs3
New updated Verbos Composition System Patch Sheet! Don't forget to share your patches!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m4r1c89ccp1fsbp/Verbos%20patch%20sheet%20v3. pdf?dl=0

thesnow
missing the new EG module?
quadrupole
Looks great vcs3! Thanks for putting it together thumbs up
Dogma
Thanks for that!

Got to be honest - Im having trouble using the composition system on its own - Ive purposely quarantined it from the rest to lean them (and its the way my place is set up - to hard and boring to explain) - i really wish the multistage and in fact the whole lot, had a user manual. Im just not that good to know what does what just by fumbling..
devslashnull
Dogma wrote:
Thanks for that!

Got to be honest - Im having trouble using the composition system on its own - Ive purposely quarantined it from the rest to lean them (and its the way my place is set up - to hard and boring to explain) - i really wish the multistage and in fact the whole lot, had a user manual. Im just not that good to know what does what just by fumbling..


When I bought the individual modules they came with a one page manual/info-page which was enough to get me going, not sure why Mark doesn't add them to the website I'm sure a lot of people would like to read about the modules more before they hand over the cash.
Rigo
devslashnull wrote:
not sure why Mark doesn't add them to the website


??

http://www.verboselectronics.com/specsheets/
devslashnull
Rigo wrote:
devslashnull wrote:
not sure why Mark doesn't add them to the website


??

http://www.verboselectronics.com/specsheets/


hah! well I'm blind obviously d'oh!
placidhouse
Vcs3, thanks again!

dogma, if you haven't seen these, maybe they'd help with inspiration. smile love that he's only using a guitar pedal or two for effects.
ununseptium
placidhouse wrote:
Vcs3, thanks again!

dogma, if you haven't seen these, maybe they'd help with inspiration. smile love that he's only using a guitar pedal or two for effects.


These really are inspired patches that show an intimate knowledge of the system.
Certainly shows up my own efforts...
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkmxQLmtpyTWcZpAhxkRijxl6IRSk88u C
AThousandDetails
as anyone had any problem / broken Verbos Complex Oscillator?

Just wondering...
ununseptium
AThousandDetails wrote:
as anyone had any problem / broken Verbos Complex Oscillator?

Just wondering...

Nope!
mritenburg
AThousandDetails wrote:
as anyone had any problem / broken Verbos Complex Oscillator?

Just wondering...


I've had my Complex OSC for over a year now (I received mine on January 27, 2014). It was very likely from the very first batch and I have not had a single problem with mine.
sprout23
mritenburg wrote:
AThousandDetails wrote:
as anyone had any problem / broken Verbos Complex Oscillator?

Just wondering...


I've had my Complex OSC for over a year now (I received mine on January 27, 2014). It was very likely from the very first batch and I have not had a single problem with mine.




I have one from the first batch also and it's working great. Only problem I've had with Verbos is the dual four pole which Mark took care of for me, it was also from the first batch. The verbos modules are some of my favorite modules I have.
trax
want to slow down your Multi Stage?

The timing resistor is C5. If you change it to .047uF it will be much slower. It's .01 now.

thumbs up
mritenburg
trax wrote:
want to slow down your Multi Stage?

The timing resistor is C5. If you change it to .047uF it will be much slower. It's .01 now.

:tu:


Does this mod reduce maximum rate as well, or can the VMS still run up to audio rates?
ym2612
Have all the noise issues with the Dual Four Pole been resolved? Or is it still noisy with certain switching supplies like the Make Noise power?
Vcs3
thesnow wrote:
missing the new EG module?


New and updated Verbos Composition System patch sheet including the Verbos Electronics Multi-Envelope! Download below:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a513vt3u9wc4ahn/Verbos%20patch%20sheet%20v4. pdf?dl=0

Dogma
Man Im in love with the VMS. Im gonna put it in a skiff with my rene, some LS1 lightstrips and the Bishops Methony (or whatever its called) and a PP for a wicked sequencing trip thumbs up thumbs up It's motherfucking bacon yo It's motherfucking bacon yo It's motherfucking bacon yo It's motherfucking bacon yo
quadrupole
ym2612 wrote:
Have all the noise issues with the Dual Four Pole been resolved? Or is it still noisy with certain switching supplies like the Make Noise power?


I think for the most part the issues have been resolved. I run mine in an HEK with no noise issue. Also, I think most of the noisy ones were V2. The one I received in Dec says V4 on the circuit board.

You can read a bit more about this in the later posts here:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1673749

That thread also describes a few of the quirks you can expect if you decide to grab one of these (eg the abrupt cutoff at 10 o'clock with no modulation, etc).

It's a beautiful and strange filter. The more you work with it, the more interesting it becomes.
echoplex
could somebody tell me what makes the mutlistage so special?
and what is the difference from any other 8 step sequencers out there? hmmm.....
StoneLaw
echoplex wrote:
could somebody tell me what makes the mutlistage so special?
and what is the difference from any other 8 step sequencers out there? hmmm.....


To me, regular special features are selectable gate outs, per step gate outs, slide, built in clock, two rows, etc.

But the real special feature is the strobe input... basically you have voltage control over which stage it gets reset to. pretty nifty!

It also has great build quality, but I do wish it output a slightly smaller range. (I use attenuators on the outputs of mine.)
mritenburg
StoneLaw wrote:
But the real special feature is the strobe input... basically you have voltage control over which stage it gets reset to. pretty nifty!


Indeed, strobe + analog addressing = awesome. You can patch it up to quantize the output of a random generator. And you can patch it to do probability jumps to random stages using the n+1 output of a Quantized Random Voltages module. For instance, if you set an n+1 output to generate 2 different states and feed that to the analog in, the sequencer will jump to the various stages 50% of the time, but it will not be alternating, it will be the distribution over time. Add voltage control to the n+1 states, and you can increase or decrease the jumps to random stages. It's a way to generate variation in a set sequence of notes.
Sleipnir
echoplex wrote:
could somebody tell me what makes the mutlistage so special?
and what is the difference from any other 8 step sequencers out there? hmmm.....

There's also the cool trick of patching CV-B into the Time input.
Lets you easily do things like Shuffle and adjustable pauses.
thumbs up
Dogma wrote:
Man Im in love with the VMS. Im gonna put it in a skiff with my rene, some LS1 lightstrips and the Bishops Methony (or whatever its called) and a PP for a wicked sequencing trip

I originally had mine in a skiff with a Rene, A-151, RCD+breakout, and a TriAtt. Was a fantastic jamming setup, and I miss it. I recently moved it into my main cases to test if the PSU2 would change the speed response; it didn't, so going to reskiff them.
Rockin' Banana!
ununseptium
echoplex wrote:
could somebody tell me what makes the mutlistage so special?
and what is the difference from any other 8 step sequencers out there? hmmm.....

The Big Red Knob! hihi
ym2612
StoneLaw wrote:
It also has great build quality, but I do wish it output a slightly smaller range. (I use attenuators on the outputs of mine.)


I was measuring some voltages on my system today, and I noticed that the Multistage outputs up to 10.6V! zombie
MindMachine
ym2612 wrote:
StoneLaw wrote:
It also has great build quality, but I do wish it output a slightly smaller range. (I use attenuators on the outputs of mine.)


I was measuring some voltages on my system today, and I noticed that the Multistage outputs up to 10.6V! zombie


The dogs in your neighborhood noticed it weeks ago.
ununseptium
ym2612 wrote:
StoneLaw wrote:
It also has great build quality, but I do wish it output a slightly smaller range. (I use attenuators on the outputs of mine.)


I was measuring some voltages on my system today, and I noticed that the Multistage outputs up to 10.6V! zombie


"These go to eleven!"
w00dw0rth
mritenburg wrote:
StoneLaw wrote:
But the real special feature is the strobe input... basically you have voltage control over which stage it gets reset to. pretty nifty!


Indeed, strobe + analog addressing = awesome. You can patch it up to quantize the output of a random generator. And you can patch it to do probability jumps to random stages using the n+1 output of a Quantized Random Voltages module. For instance, if you set an n+1 output to generate 2 different states and feed that to the analog in, the sequencer will jump to the various stages 50% of the time, but it will not be alternating, it will be the distribution over time. Add voltage control to the n+1 states, and you can increase or decrease the jumps to random stages. It's a way to generate variation in a set sequence of notes.


I agree - the VMS is the centerpiece of most patches in my current setup. I love it for all the reasons explained here. Not sure I understand this thing of quantizing the output of a random generator. mritenburg - could you elaborate?
mritenburg
w00dw0rth wrote:
Not sure I understand this thing of quantizing the output of a random generator. mritenburg - could you elaborate?


Just as an example, using a tuner, adjust each step of row a to the intervals of a major scale. You can, of course, set the stages of row a (and row b) to the intervals of any 8 note scale you want. Hold the strobe button for a couple seconds until it activates voltage addressing mode. Patch the output of your random module to analog in on the VMS. As the random voltages change, the VMS stages will change. Even though the stages are randomly addressed by the random voltage, the output is quantized to the intervals set by the sliders. You are, however, limited to one octave unless you mix the VMS output with another voltage that offsets for octave shifts. You can also use a voltage controlled switch to alternate between row a and row b scales.
Voggg
Ok, so I have the VHO and the four pole, and I'm tempted to get the ATC, but I'm also concerned that it'll be redundant over just using the four pole with some drive and a VCA. I understand about the special VCA features, but how much does the sound of the ATC filter differ from the four pole?
Would it be redundant in a (relatively) small system?
mritenburg
Voggg wrote:
Ok, so I have the VHO and the four pole, and I'm tempted to get the ATC, but I'm also concerned that it'll be redundant over just using the four pole with some drive and a VCA. I understand about the special VCA features, but how much does the sound of the ATC filter differ from the four pole?
Would it be redundant in a (relatively) small system?


Their slopes are very different. The four pole is -24db/oct and the ATC is -6db/oct. The ATC self-oscillates. The ATC is vactrol based, and the Four Pole is a transistor ladder filter (I believe). They really sound nothing alike.
Opus110
mritenburg wrote:
Voggg wrote:
Ok, so I have the VHO and the four pole, and I'm tempted to get the ATC, but I'm also concerned that it'll be redundant over just using the four pole with some drive and a VCA. I understand about the special VCA features, but how much does the sound of the ATC filter differ from the four pole?
Would it be redundant in a (relatively) small system?


Their slopes are very different. The four pole is -24db/oct and the ATC is -6db/oct. The ATC self-oscillates. The ATC is vactrol based, and the Four Pole is a transistor ladder filter (I believe). They really sound nothing alike.


Any redundancy in having the Four Pole next to Korgasmatron II? I have the Complex Osc Harmonic Osc, VM, and should receive the ATC soon, so I'm tempted to get the Four Pole just to complete the set. But I'll only do it if it gives me something quite different than Korgasmatron.
mritenburg
Opus110 wrote:
mritenburg wrote:
Voggg wrote:
Ok, so I have the VHO and the four pole, and I'm tempted to get the ATC, but I'm also concerned that it'll be redundant over just using the four pole with some drive and a VCA. I understand about the special VCA features, but how much does the sound of the ATC filter differ from the four pole?
Would it be redundant in a (relatively) small system?


Their slopes are very different. The four pole is -24db/oct and the ATC is -6db/oct. The ATC self-oscillates. The ATC is vactrol based, and the Four Pole is a transistor ladder filter (I believe). They really sound nothing alike.


Any redundancy in having the Four Pole next to Korgasmatron II? I have the Complex Osc Harmonic Osc, VM, and should receive the ATC soon, so I'm tempted to get the Four Pole just to complete the set. But I'll only do it if it gives me something quite different than Korgasmatron.


Based on the specs, there is probably some area of overlap with the ATC, not the four pole, but I don't own a Korgasmatron, so I'm just speculating.
WhiteIsBeautiful
unless i missed it i havent seen any post about this:
http://www.analoguehaven.com/verboselectronics/performancesystem/

performance system
the 5 included modules are:
amplitude & tone controller
complex oscillator
harmonic oscillator
touchplate keyboard
voltage multistage

price : $3,199.00
"the modules were arranged in this system to be best suited for live performance. they include both touch and sequencing elements, two varieties of flexible oscillators and a very distinguishable vca.this performance system configuration is limited to 7 pieces in the red portable case"
placidhouse
whiteisbeautiful, not sure if anyone posted it but it did show up in the post-your-setup section. i wish they would have sold it in a 2x6u case with the dual four pole module. no room to grow as it currently stands.
WhiteIsBeautiful
placidhouse wrote:
whiteisbeautiful, not sure if anyone posted it but it did show up in the post-your-setup section. i wish they would have sold it in a 2x6u case with the dual four pole module. no room to grow as it currently stands.


maybe its more of a "buchla" thing. kind of "this is the system we are giving you" maybe? i think the idea is great.simple to make complex.
cosmic_son
Beauty love

Anyone wanna walk over to AH in the morning? hehe.
Voggg
new system looks nice but no room for the Four Pole! Should've done a 124hp case so there would be room for the other 2 modules.

Here's a couple VHO tracks:

[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/192532840" params="color=ff5500&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments= true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false" width="100%" height="166" iframe="true" /]


[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/192533042" params="color=ff5500&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments= true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false" width="100%" height="166" iframe="true" /]
MatMillion
AThousandDetails wrote:
as anyone had any problem / broken Verbos Complex Oscillator?

Just wondering...


Actually I have a problem right now. The Complex Oscillator became unstable and it is no longer possible to calibrate it to 1V/oct. Both Oscillators are affected. Very strange. I bring it to schneiders next week. The unit is from late 2014 (2014 rev6)
Kaput
MatMillion wrote:
AThousandDetails wrote:
as anyone had any problem / broken Verbos Complex Oscillator?

Just wondering...


Actually I have a problem right now. The Complex Oscillator became unstable and it is no longer possible to calibrate it to 1V/oct. Both Oscillators are affected. Very strange. I bring it to schneiders next week. The unit is from late 2014 (2014 rev6)


Could be a power problem. I had some Verbos in a case with some MI stuff. I wasn't over the mA limit, by any means, but the Verbos stuff just didn't like certain modules being in the same case.
MatMillion
Kaput wrote:
Could be a power problem. I had some Verbos in a case with some MI stuff. I wasn't over the mA limit, by any means, but the Verbos stuff just didn't like certain modules being in the same case.


I tried it in two different cases. Different power supplies, different modules nearby, same problem. Would be a big coincidence.
Kaput
MatMillion wrote:
I tried it in two different cases. Different power supplies, different modules nearby, same problem. Would be a big coincidence.


You're right, it would be. Best get it checked out. thumbs up
stephentrask
Hanz wrote:


and some additional comments from Mark (some slightly curious remarks in there). I have to say he's entirely right on the power supply issue - after I moved to a TipTop Zeus Studio Bus solution, my remaining noise issues were greatly reduced. Still, the calibration is an important thing to check.

Quote:
"It concerns me that the trims would be way out of control. It is true that the module is very voltage dependent and that Euro power supplies do not seem to be very reliable. I have increased the power regulation considerably from where it was, but the core of the design is lo-fi by nature. The signal going through the filter stages has to be very small and then boosted way up to get back to Euro level, which makes it noisy.
It has a unique character, and is certainly not a general purpose do-all filter. I hope that what it does is interesting enough to overlook it's shortcomings."


.


I find this bit to be troubling, myself. I am extremely excited to take delivery of my Verbos system but concerned about issues related to power. the two Verbos systems are designed with what is described as "custom verbos power and cincon adapter." Can someone who has either the performance or composition system say what that entails and whether it is fundamentally different than other power systems?
scottmoon
Cincons are power bricks that a lot of people use. I have 2. I didn't know he's making his own power board but Mark does quality work. I wouldn't worry.
stephentrask
scottmoon wrote:
Cincons are power bricks that a lot of people use. I have 2. I didn't know he's making his own power board but Mark does quality work. I wouldn't worry.


Thanks. Yeah, I do trust the quality of his work but was caught off-guard by his disparaging comment and the various quality issues mentioned here. I will assume that the former regards power supplies he doesn't use and the latter are unrelated instances. Excited to dig in.
ziggomatic
I can't stop thinking about how awesome and useful having a second VMS would be......

Maybe when I finally upgrade my case. But, the Koma Komplex Sequencer also looks ridiculous.
Ish
Just curious, how were many of you were readers of Mark Verbos' Captain's Analogue column in Massive magazine back in the 90s?

It is good to see he has stuck with it.
trax
Ish wrote:
Just curious, how were many of you readers of Mark Verbos' Captain's Analogue column in Massive magazine back in the 90s?


Dusting off the glow sticks. . . .


http://www.massivemag.com/category/mark-verbos/
Dogma
I bought a Composition system but I had a few bits and bobs around - its for sure not a complete system - moreso now that the EG is out because the composition System LOVES Maths. In fact I need another but the sound quality is ridiculous and i know for a fact the very best components where used so we can keep them for years and years.....
I mean you could just go one maker but then I wouldnt know and Love the Benjolin, my VM-1, Orgone Accumulator......
gonkulator
Dogma wrote:
I bought a Composition system but I had a few bits and bobs around - its for sure not a complete system - moreso now that the EG is out because the composition System LOVES Maths. In fact I need another but the sound quality is ridiculous and i know for a fact the very best components where used so we can keep them for years and years.....
I mean you could just go one maker but then I wouldnt know and Love the Benjolin, my VM-1, Orgone Accumulator......


Yes, speaking of the Maths in the Composition system, I have done that as well, but I was hoping to get some red or black knobs, because it really calls for that. Anyone have any suggestions?
Vcs3
I've had the Touch Plate Keyboard for a while and I can't seem to get pressure to work properly. I hoped for something as responsive as the Animoog but it is impossible to control pressure.

Any TPK owners out there? What is your experience with the TPK and pressure? Is it just me?

EDIT: Mark told me that ”After the first shipment to Europe, we toned down the pressure on all the ones that we build”.

Problem solved!
Dark Modular Cases
Performance system.

HERE
Voggg
could anyone post examples of using the ATC as a "complex" VCA or doing unique things with it?
Selador
Voggg wrote:
could anyone post examples of using the ATC as a "complex" VCA or doing unique things with it?


The unique things it does is that it does everything you could want from a VCA, it's an arguably complete dynamics and timbre shaping amplifier.

In one VCA, you get a huge gain stage with overdrive, exponential and linear DC ins, a normalled 1-pole filter with a vactrol response on the cutoff as well as resonance that changes character as its overdriven.

Think of it more as the entire head of a guitar amp, which, while not overly complex, certainly gives you more control over your voice's sound than simply doing in-out amplification.
iamjondu
Anyone have any idea of where else I can get the compositional system? Looks like Analogue Haven and Meme Antenna are all sold out...
Leverkusen
iamjondu wrote:
Anyone have any idea of where else I can get the compositional system? Looks like Analogue Haven and Meme Antenna are all sold out...


I think it's a limited edition exclusively by Analogue Haven (and Meme Antenna, who made the cases). Of course no one knows what limited edition actually means...

I saw a case on BST recently - perhaps you can assemble one by yourself.
mritenburg
Leverkusen wrote:
Of course no one knows what limited edition actually means...


The AH order page states that the composition system was limited to 20 pieces (systems).
Hirsbro
What kind of cv input does Verbos accept? I mean what is safe? 5? 10? 12v?

was thinking of using my a-149-2 random gate output to control mt HO but that's 12v and I fear that be a bit high without having any reason that it would be bad hmmm.....
ym2612
Verbos modules typically like 0-10V on CV inputs. I think you should be fine.
stephentrask
mritenburg wrote:
exper wrote:
Mritenburg,

Do you know of any examples of the ATC doing a basic, complex fm 'bongo' sound? I've yet to hear it really used as a LPG. I keep looking at it with interest, but just not sure about it.

I agree though, a quad, true LPG would have been great. I guess I'm waiting on demos of the Sputnik one for now.

What are the rumors of a verbos envelope btw?


I think I'm having déjà vu? smile. Didn't me and you just discuss the ATC as a pure LPG producing bongos a page or so back in this thread? The soundcloud link I posted a page or so back entitled 'Verbos Patches' has examples of the ATC and Optomix both patched to produce the same bongo (percussion) sound. Maybe tonight I'll post a mix of just ATC bongos.


@mritenburg Deja Vu all over again. I am sure I must be the dunce of the planet. For the life of me i cannot make anything resembling the bongo famous bongo sound with my Verbos Composition System. I am having great fun and making cool sounds and reading manuals and every time I think I've figured that or the recipe for some other percussion out, I fail. I usually end up with something quite cool but never the thing I intend.

Is it possible with no outside modules to make this sound with the Verbos System?
mritenburg
stephentrask wrote:
@mritenburg Deja Vu all over again. I am sure I must be the dunce of the planet. For the life of me i cannot make anything resembling the bongo famous bongo sound with my Verbos Composition System. I am having great fun and making cool sounds and reading manuals and every time I think I've figured that or the recipe for some other percussion out, I fail. I usually end up with something quite cool but never the thing I intend.

Is it possible with no outside modules to make this sound with the Verbos System?


I've received a few PM's regarding my bongo patches using the ATC. The ATC is quite capable of producing the well-known bongo sound, but my patches require the ultra-expo envelope from the Maths v2. I'm not sure the sound I get is possible with just the composition system. The same sound should be possible with the forthcoming Verbos EG.

It might be possible to patch the VMS to produce a snappy two-stage envelope that produces the desired result with the ATC, but I have not experimented with that at all.
stephentrask
mritenburg wrote:
stephentrask wrote:
@mritenburg Deja Vu all over again. I am sure I must be the dunce of the planet. For the life of me i cannot make anything resembling the bongo famous bongo sound with my Verbos Composition System. I am having great fun and making cool sounds and reading manuals and every time I think I've figured that or the recipe for some other percussion out, I fail. I usually end up with something quite cool but never the thing I intend.

Is it possible with no outside modules to make this sound with the Verbos System?


I've received a few PM's regarding my bongo patches using the ATC. The ATC is quite capable of producing the well-known bongo sound, but my patches require the ultra-expo envelope from the Maths v2. I'm not sure the sound I get is possible with just the composition system. The same sound should be possible with the forthcoming Verbos EG.

It might be possible to patch the VMS to produce a snappy two-stage envelope that produces the desired result with the ATC, but I have not experimented with that at all.


Thank you so much for this response. I will confess, as disappointed as I am that I can't make this sound until either the release of the Multi-Envelope or my purchase of Maths, I find it quite a relief that I am not laboring under some grand delusion that I am figuring this system out with a rudimentary understanding of it's workings. I will continue to have other kinds of fun, get the Multi-Envelope and then take it from there.

Thanks again.

Oh, when warmed up my Multi-Stage seems to be getting about 3-4 seconds per stage. Does anyone have an opinion about whether I should send this in? Or walk it over, since I am close enough?
Happyanimal
Regarding Multistage and overly fast stage times-

This is most likely an issue with the power supply. I had the same issue when plugged into monorocket cases/power. Longest time of each stage was ridiculously fast.


This problem goes away when plugged into my uZeus. From what I have seen this module and possibly other Verbos are super sensitive to different PS.
mousegarden
I haven't been using my Four Pole lately, so I plugged it in a few days ago only to find the dreaded noise. I mailed Mark at Verbos and he got back to me more or less straight away and offered to look at it for me. By the time I got around to replying I moved the filter onto another rail, in another part of the cabinet, and the noise wasn't there anymore, I told Mark that seeing as I'm in the UK, it wasn't worth it to ship it back to him, bedsides, the noise seems to have gone now. My own take on this is that this module DOES NOT like to be next to digital stuff, like my Braids, and Equation Composer, also, I don't thnk it likes being on a +5v rail, these things may be rubbish, but since I've moved it off the 5v rail, and away from the digits, no noise.

MouseGarden.
mritenburg
mousegarden wrote:
I haven't been using my Four Pole lately, so I plugged it in a few days ago only to find the dreaded noise.


Interesting coincidence, I went a year without hearing the dreaded four pole noise. Then one day recently it was there. I removed all other modules from my cabinet and it was still there. I contacted Verbos Electronics, they said 'send it in.' I sent it in and they had it back to me in a week. It sounds perfect again. I wouldn't hesitate to send it in even if you are outside the U.S.
stephentrask
mousegarden wrote:
I haven't been using my Four Pole lately, so I plugged it in a few days ago only to find the dreaded noise.
MouseGarden.


What exactly is the dreaded noise?
Dogma
The only issue Im having and I know its just I dont it properly but the ATC just barks at me sometimes. Its always under CV so its just something
i have to work out I guess but It shits me no end
mousegarden
stephentrask wrote:
mousegarden wrote:
I haven't been using my Four Pole lately, so I plugged it in a few days ago only to find the dreaded noise.
MouseGarden.


What exactly is the dreaded noise?


It's a sort of digital sounding grunge, I know it's not a digital thing, but that's what it sounds like. It. Goes away if you close the filters. A sort of white noise sound, with some clicking.
I can hear it at normal monitoring levels sitting about three fleet from my speakers.

MouseGarden.
stephentrask
mousegarden wrote:
stephentrask wrote:
mousegarden wrote:
I haven't been using my Four Pole lately, so I plugged it in a few days ago only to find the dreaded noise.
MouseGarden.


What exactly is the dreaded noise?


It's a sort of digital sounding grunge, I know it's not a digital thing, but that's what it sounds like. It. Goes away if you close the filters. A sort of white noise sound, with some clicking.
I can hear it at normal monitoring levels sitting about three fleet from my speakers.

MouseGarden.


Thanks. Is this a sound that the filters make regardless of any audio running to them?
stephentrask
Happyanimal wrote:
Regarding Multistage and overly fast stage times-

This is most likely an issue with the power supply. I had the same issue when plugged into monorocket cases/power. Longest time of each stage was ridiculously fast.


This problem goes away when plugged into my uZeus. From what I have seen this module and possibly other Verbos are super sensitive to different PS.


I have the Verbos Power Supply. I have run it on a number of circuits, through voltage regulators or high end power conditioners and on dedicated audio circuits with nothing else running. Every now and then I think to measure the length of the 8 stages with my iPhone stopwatch. When cold, I have measured as much as 70 seconds for the full cycle. Once warmed up that number is significantly reduced and seems to get lower all the time. Today, as I was packing my rig up I decided to take a measurement. - between 15-16 seconds for all 8 stages with a steady voltage of 121v.
stephentrask
Vcs3 wrote:
I've had the Touch Plate Keyboard for a while and I can't seem to get pressure to work properly. I hoped for something as responsive as the Animoog but it is impossible to control pressure.

Any TPK owners out there? What is your experience with the TPK and pressure? Is it just me?

EDIT: Mark told me that ”After the first shipment to Europe, we toned down the pressure on all the ones that we build”.

Problem solved!


Did you send the keyboard in or did you make an adjustment yourself?
stephentrask
mousegarden wrote:
stephentrask wrote:


What exactly is the dreaded noise?


It's a sort of digital sounding grunge, I know it's not a digital thing, but that's what it sounds like. It. Goes away if you close the filters. A sort of white noise sound, with some clicking.
I can hear it at normal monitoring levels sitting about three fleet from my speakers.

MouseGarden.


So, the high pitched fuzz when there is nothing connected to the FPF input but it is connected to an output module is not normal?
mritenburg
stephentrask wrote:
So, the high pitched fuzz when there is nothing connected to the FPF input but it is connected to an output module is not normal?


Nope, after I sent mine in for their fix mine is dead silent with no signal running through it.
stickmann
I had mine sent in for the fix and it was still noisy. It was less noisy, but the "high pitched fuzz" was still present.

My case has 4 powered Zeus busboards and I assume that the power supply type is the main issue (switching supply). I had to put the DFP on a board all by itself and then it was crystal clear and glorious sounding.. no high pitched noise.

Before isolating it, I also tried removing digital modules and having just Verbos modules on the same board but it still picked up noise from those modules.
gottberg
Chiming in to say I got my CO today and it is very lovely indeed.
stephentrask
mritenburg wrote:
stephentrask wrote:
So, the high pitched fuzz when there is nothing connected to the FPF input but it is connected to an output module is not normal?


Nope, after I sent mine in for their fix mine is dead silent with no signal running through it.


I think I will send mine in and probably ask that the VM's stage time be lengthened as well.

On another note, I set up my first ADSR with the VM last night and it was great fun.
trickness
stephentrask wrote:
mritenburg wrote:
stephentrask wrote:
So, the high pitched fuzz when there is nothing connected to the FPF input but it is connected to an output module is not normal?


Nope, after I sent mine in for their fix mine is dead silent with no signal running through it.


I think I will send mine in and probably ask that the VM's stage time be lengthened as well.

On another note, I set up my first ADSR with the VM last night and it was great fun.


Could you post how you did the ADSR patch? The manual isn't much help with this :-)
Vcs3
stephentrask wrote:
Vcs3 wrote:
I've had the Touch Plate Keyboard for a while and I can't seem to get pressure to work properly. I hoped for something as responsive as the Animoog but it is impossible to control pressure.

Any TPK owners out there? What is your experience with the TPK and pressure? Is it just me?

EDIT: Mark told me that ”After the first shipment to Europe, we toned down the pressure on all the ones that we build”.

Problem solved!


Did you send the keyboard in or did you make an adjustment yourself?


Mark is coming to Stockholm and I hope he will have time to fix it then. From what I understand it is an easy fix but it requires sending it back. You should email Verbos Electronics. They are very helpful!
stephentrask
trickness wrote:
stephentrask wrote:
mritenburg wrote:
stephentrask wrote:
So, the high pitched fuzz when there is nothing connected to the FPF input but it is connected to an output module is not normal?


Nope, after I sent mine in for their fix mine is dead silent with no signal running through it.


I think I will send mine in and probably ask that the VM's stage time be lengthened as well.

On another note, I set up my first ADSR with the VM last night and it was great fun.


Could you post how you did the ADSR patch? The manual isn't much help with this :-)


I followed the patch instructions laid out in the video from this thread:
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=119265&highlight=
I tried to figure it out on my own but got hung up in the S stage. I made some adjustments after setting it up that worked nicely with the patch I was using but start here.

I was using the Verbos keyboard for CV.
stephentrask
Vcs3 wrote:
stephentrask wrote:
Vcs3 wrote:
I've had the Touch Plate Keyboard for a while and I can't seem to get pressure to work properly. I hoped for something as responsive as the Animoog but it is impossible to control pressure.

Any TPK owners out there? What is your experience with the TPK and pressure? Is it just me?

EDIT: Mark told me that ”After the first shipment to Europe, we toned down the pressure on all the ones that we build”.

Problem solved!


Did you send the keyboard in or did you make an adjustment yourself?


Mark is coming to Stockholm and I hope he will have time to fix it then. From what I understand it is an easy fix but it requires sending it back. You should email Verbos Electronics. They are very helpful!


I will indeed email Mark. Thanks for the response - I was just about to attempt the adjustment myself. I think if the pressure issues are worked out this will be a great instrument for me. Maybe when I write I can get a clue about the release date for the Multi-Envelope.
stephentrask
bsmith wrote:
A little messing around with the Harmonic Osc & Voltage Multistage (among other things). Have a little FM going on with a couple of the Harmonic Osc's individual sine outs and coming back to the FM in, via a fonik switch which is where that occasional slewy intonation is coming from. Wogglebug Addressed Voltage multistage is modulating the Harmonic Osc's center, a (euclidean) Pam triggered Maths is diddling its width...



Great track! Is the Wogglebug causing the Multistage to skip around between stages?
Dogma
Dunno I love it to death but Im thinking about selling the composition system as a whole and if it doesnt sell as a whole Ill keep it.

Aussies - Im not gonna start a BST thread but if you want the composition system without the GST and Shipping costs let me know via PM please
mousegarden
Posted off my Four Pole to Mark last week, hopefully he will be able to sort it out. I don't think moving stuff around or digital modules are the answer to this.
Touch keyboard ? Well, there "is" nothing like he Animoog, it's pure heaven, sound wise, and for expression.
I was thinking of building a whole new modular for live use, but I've completely changed my mind, it makes no sense, all I need is my I pad and a 49 note controller, I've also discovered "Caustic" and I've set up a template that has 3 modular synths, all with different modules, I can use those for drones, and then ad stuff over them using other slots, and all on the pad, it's the only way to go.

MouseGarden.
Voggg
Got the ATC yesterday. Sounds totally different from the MMG or 4 Pole (with VCAs). The bipolar CV layout is simple but genius. You can get so many different results just using a single Maths channel. I love the distortion and the self-oscillating drum sounds. Well worth the .

I was a little surprised by the filter slope. Sometimes it sounds very soft, but other times it seems almost indistinguishable from the 4 pole. Overall, I was expecting it to be more subtle. I think it might be due to the cutoff control covering a very wide range (especially compared to the MMG). Maybe with a heavily attenuated CV in the middle range I could get some subtle fluctuations.

Also it seems like the expo CV doesn't quite punch the ceiling the way some expo VCAs do, maybe because of the vactrol (?), but this is not an issue for me.
mousegarden
Voggg wrote:
Got the ATC yesterday. Sounds totally different from the MMG or 4 Pole (with VCAs). The bipolar CV layout is simple but genius. You can get so many different results just using a single Maths channel. I love the distortion and the self-oscillating drum sounds. Well worth the .

I was a little surprised by the filter slope. Sometimes it sounds very soft, but other times it seems almost indistinguishable from the 4 pole. Overall, I was expecting it to be more subtle. I think it might be due to the cutoff control covering a very wide range (especially compared to the MMG). Maybe with a heavily attenuated CV in the middle range I could get some subtle fluctuations.

Also it seems like the expo CV doesn't quite punch the ceiling the way some expo VCAs do, maybe because of the vactrol (?), but this is not an issue for me.


Thinking of getting one of these, I don't know what it is about Verbos stuff ? My Four Pole has had a few problems, but the sound of it is strange, it's difficult to describe, it's strange in a good way, the best way I can describe it is that it's alive, it has a definite "vibe" to it, and the way it responds is edgy, I'm not making much sense here, but to conclude I can't part with my filter, simply becaue it has that something, which is difficult to describe, it's only when you compare it with something else, or don't use it for a while that you notice this character. I'm hoping all Marks modules have this "vibe"

MouseGarden.
trickness
mousegarden wrote:
Voggg wrote:
Got the ATC yesterday. Sounds totally different from the MMG or 4 Pole (with VCAs). The bipolar CV layout is simple but genius. You can get so many different results just using a single Maths channel. I love the distortion and the self-oscillating drum sounds. Well worth the .

I was a little surprised by the filter slope. Sometimes it sounds very soft, but other times it seems almost indistinguishable from the 4 pole. Overall, I was expecting it to be more subtle. I think it might be due to the cutoff control covering a very wide range (especially compared to the MMG). Maybe with a heavily attenuated CV in the middle range I could get some subtle fluctuations.

Also it seems like the expo CV doesn't quite punch the ceiling the way some expo VCAs do, maybe because of the vactrol (?), but this is not an issue for me.


Thinking of getting one of these, I don't know what it is about Verbos stuff ? My Four Pole has had a few problems, but the sound of it is strange, it's difficult to describe, it's strange in a good way, the best way I can describe it is that it's alive, it has a definite "vibe" to it, and the way it responds is edgy, I'm not making much sense here, but to conclude I can't part with my filter, simply becaue it has that something, which is difficult to describe, it's only when you compare it with something else, or don't use it for a while that you notice this character. I'm hoping all Marks modules have this "vibe"

MouseGarden.


I think they do, and certainly the ATC has what you're describing. I have all the Verbos stuff, and I think the tone of each (excepting the VMS of course) is very organic and pure. So much so that to me, the Make Noise stuff I got after my Verbos purchases (DPO, STO, MMG) sounded very stale and flat, and I sold all of them.

The Verbos stuff has quirks and the lack of documentation on things like the Multistage is frustrating, but the tone and the vibe can't be beat IMHO.
echoplex
trickness wrote:
I think the tone of each (excepting the VMS of course) is very organic and pure. So much so that to me, the Make Noise stuff I got after my Verbos purchases (DPO, STO, MMG) sounded very stale and flat, and I sold all of them.


anybody confirms and agree with that ? eek!
stephentrask
echoplex wrote:
trickness wrote:
I think the tone of each (excepting the VMS of course) is very organic and pure. So much so that to me, the Make Noise stuff I got after my Verbos purchases (DPO, STO, MMG) sounded very stale and flat, and I sold all of them.


anybody confirms and agree with that ? eek!


Yes.
Dogma
This Verbos stuff has magic about it. I guess it helps that that his Buchla background had bought out that vide no doubt - well the HO he was selling in BUchla format and that entire his own thing, brilliant. Its an Osc yes but the way it goes about it turns it into an instrument and each of them is like that in its own way. I think its almost a mistake to think of it as a system and maybe composition system is a correct or more fitting name....
A few people have asked about filters and particularly the 4 pole - I love it. I have a nice system outside of the Verbos gear (not nearly as nice as most of you guys!) nd Ive fallen hard for the SARA. Its got this molten core - or cores as its really versatile with a billion ins and outs and self oscillates in this really nice way...I also love the filter in the Benjolin and the new WMD/SSF MOSFET 4 pole im enjoying a lot as well. Totally different. Soft is the word. BUt it FMs like a total champ. Ive played with a Uhc and thats pobably my next filter..
Voggg
stephentrask wrote:
echoplex wrote:
trickness wrote:
I think the tone of each (excepting the VMS of course) is very organic and pure. So much so that to me, the Make Noise stuff I got after my Verbos purchases (DPO, STO, MMG) sounded very stale and flat, and I sold all of them.


anybody confirms and agree with that ? eek!


Yes.


Not at all. DPO has a very "woody" organic sound. Different but in no way inferior to my Verbos stuff
Dogma
Voggg wrote:
stephentrask wrote:
echoplex wrote:
trickness wrote:
I think the tone of each (excepting the VMS of course) is very organic and pure. So much so that to me, the Make Noise stuff I got after my Verbos purchases (DPO, STO, MMG) sounded very stale and flat, and I sold all of them.


anybody confirms and agree with that ? eek!


Yes.


Not at all. DPO has a very "woody" organic sound. Different but in no way inferior to my Verbos stuff


DPO is an amazing OSC. Not inferior - different. But not inferior.
echoplex
would anybody mind to lose some words on the ATC?
or some demos of course would be charming ..

is it very dirty, distorted, angry sounding like I expect?
Voggg
echoplex wrote:
would anybody mind to lose some words on the ATC?
or some demos of course would be charming ..

is it very dirty, distorted, angry sounding like I expect?


It can sound very clean and linear (normal vca) up into heavy distortion. That all depends on the setting for the input gain and resonance. In between, you can find some subtle coloration.

Unless the gain is very high, the resonance starts to self-oscillate a little past noon and is very full at lower frequencies. You can find several YouTube vids where it's used as an analog drum with no input

I'll post something if I can get my power issues sorted out...
trickness
I heard a rumor that the next Verbos module will be some kind of mixer/scanner/output module introduced at MusicMesse. Anyone hear anything about this?
mritenburg
trickness wrote:
I heard a rumor that the next Verbos module will be some kind of mixer/scanner/output module introduced at MusicMesse. Anyone hear anything about this?


Nope, but it makes sense from a 'complete system' point of view. I'd like to see some of his other original designs make it into the module lineup. I know he has an analog shift register, quantizer, and pulse sequencer that would all be cool to see eventually.
stephentrask
Has anyone followed these instructions from the Spec Sheets, about which I am a tad confused, to turn the FPF into a Bandpass?


"The output of the hipass filter is normalled to the input of the lowpass section. If two control voltages are multed to one c.v. input on each filter, with one c.v. set to fully clockwise on both sides and the other c.v. set fully clockwise on lowpass and fully counter-clockwise on hipass... The module will act as a four pole bandpass filter."
Selador
Audio in to the hipass, out the low.

Filter cutoff CV is multed to the cutoffs of both sides.

You can use the second CV inputs to control the bandwidth, too
Naut.Sirius
trickness wrote:
I heard a rumor that the next Verbos module will be some kind of mixer/scanner/output module introduced at MusicMesse. Anyone hear anything about this?


that would be lovely, any further rumors about it?
stephentrask
Selador wrote:
Audio in to the hipass, out the low.

Filter cutoff CV is multed to the cutoffs of both sides.

You can use the second CV inputs to control the bandwidth, too


Amazing! Thank you. So, do you go into the first of the CV inputs for both sides of the filter? Does the content of the CV affect the filter or does it just need something coming in? Can you simultaneously use the HP Filter output? I'm pretty sure that doesn't break the normal. (away from my rig for a few days or i'd be patching it up right now.)
slavetothesync
Naut.Sirius wrote:
trickness wrote:
I heard a rumor that the next Verbos module will be some kind of mixer/scanner/output module introduced at MusicMesse. Anyone hear anything about this?


that would be lovely, any further rumors about it?


Ya- sounds great!

But... when is that multi-env actually out??
Naut.Sirius
slavetothesync wrote:
Naut.Sirius wrote:
trickness wrote:
I heard a rumor that the next Verbos module will be some kind of mixer/scanner/output module introduced at MusicMesse. Anyone hear anything about this?


that would be lovely, any further rumors about it?


Ya- sounds great!

But... when is that multi-env actually out??


Should be soon as Analog Haven has it on it's soon to arrive list and has webpage and price up for it.
trickness
slavetothesync wrote:
Naut.Sirius wrote:
trickness wrote:
I heard a rumor that the next Verbos module will be some kind of mixer/scanner/output module introduced at MusicMesse. Anyone hear anything about this?


that would be lovely, any further rumors about it?


Ya- sounds great!

But... when is that multi-env actually out??


I heard Verbos is waiting on the finished front panels, the rest of the build is done. I'm betting it will be out after MusicMesse
stephentrask
trickness wrote:
slavetothesync wrote:
Naut.Sirius wrote:
trickness wrote:
I heard a rumor that the next Verbos module will be some kind of mixer/scanner/output module introduced at MusicMesse. Anyone hear anything about this?


that would be lovely, any further rumors about it?


Ya- sounds great!

But... when is that multi-env actually out??


I heard Verbos is waiting on the finished front panels, the rest of the build is done. I'm betting it will be out after MusicMesse


Damn. I told myself that I would be at least one of every module he puts out but I ddnt know they'd keep coming.
mritenburg
trickness wrote:
slavetothesync wrote:
Naut.Sirius wrote:
trickness wrote:
I heard a rumor that the next Verbos module will be some kind of mixer/scanner/output module introduced at MusicMesse. Anyone hear anything about this?


that would be lovely, any further rumors about it?


Ya- sounds great!

But... when is that multi-env actually out??


I heard Verbos is waiting on the finished front panels, the rest of the build is done. I'm betting it will be out after MusicMesse


AH order page says shipping 04/17/2015. That's one day before MusicMesse starts, right?
stephentrask
mritenburg
I think the Musicmesse rumor is about another pretty new module, not the Multi-Envelope.
mritenburg
stephentrask wrote:
mritenburg
I think the Musicmesse rumor is about another pretty new module, not the Multi-Envelope.


AH, right you are.
stephentrask
mritenburg wrote:
stephentrask wrote:
mritenburg
I think the Musicmesse rumor is about another pretty new module, not the Multi-Envelope.


AH, right you are.

If I understand correctly the Multi-Envelop is shipping next Friday.
stephentrask
Double post. Boingo Hot Spot kind of sucks.
mousegarden
JEEZE :(
I sent my Four Pole back for repair three weeks ago, from Lonodn UK, it's "still" in the system, being delivered, how long does it take for gods sake ? the guy at the PO said 7 days......

seriously, i just don't get it

MouseGarden.
jvt
Lately, I've had packages from overseas shipped via post to the US take an average of 3-4 weeks to arrive. A good chunk of that time the package ends up sitting in customs before it's released for delivery. eek!
mousegarden wrote:
JEEZE :(
I sent my Four Pole back for repair three weeks ago, from Lonodn UK, it's "still" in the system, being delivered, how long does it take for gods sake ? the guy at the PO said 7 days......

seriously, i just don't get it

MouseGarden.
Naut.Sirius
stephentrask wrote:
mritenburg
I think the Musicmesse rumor is about another pretty new module, not the Multi-Envelope.


Any more info/dirt/rumors/wishful thinking about this will be fantastic Rockin' Banana!
nucleus
lovely envelope. looks like verbos electronics know what they are doing. pretty much having all you could ask for in an envelope. it looks stunning
stephentrask
mritenburg wrote:
stephentrask wrote:
So, the high pitched fuzz when there is nothing connected to the FPF input but it is connected to an output module is not normal?


Nope, after I sent mine in for their fix mine is dead silent with no signal running through it.


I picked my FPF up from Mark Saturday night. He said he couldn't find anything wrong with it but whatever he did, it is now dead silent. Also, my Multistage has a stage time of just shy of 8 seconds now. I hadn't thought to test it but I wrote a piece today with each stage about 6 1/2 seconds and wasn't at the max. It turns out it is useful.
mousegarden
My Filter hasn't even arrived there yet, and Mark is going away for a month, so, I guess I'm going to be without my filter for a couple more months.....

sad banana

MouseGarden.
stephentrask
mousegarden wrote:
My Filter hasn't even arrived there yet, and Mark is going away for a month, so, I guess I'm going to be without my filter for a couple more months.....

sad banana

MouseGarden.


That sucks. The post office is just awful.
Dogma
Holy shit did I just have my awakening with the 4 pole and the ATC - jesus what incredible modules. I was pulling vowels, Blurbling acid - complete and utter revelation. They can both pull of this dusty kinda vibe - very old school, then very pingy and almost delay ay ay.
stephentrask
Dogma wrote:
Holy shit did I just have my awakening with the 4 pole and the ATC - jesus what incredible modules. I was pulling vowels, Blurbling acid - complete and utter revelation. They can both pull of this dusty kinda vibe - very old school, then very pingy and almost delay ay ay.


Amazing! Cool you held on to them. Can you describe what you did?
trickness
Any news from Messe regarding Verbos? Heard that rumor that there was going to be a new module introduced, but there's been nothing on Verbos' Facebook page and haven't seen anything here on Muffs either.
echoplex
trickness wrote:
Any news from Messe regarding Verbos? Heard that rumor that there was going to be a new module introduced, but there's been nothing on Verbos' Facebook page and haven't seen anything here on Muffs either.


I have not spotted anything new at the verbos booth
stephentrask
No announcements yet. I keep looking myself.
fringe
mousegarden wrote:
My Filter hasn't even arrived there yet, and Mark is going away for a month, so, I guess I'm going to be without my filter for a couple more months.....

sad banana

MouseGarden.



Will he not be responding to emails during this month?
mritenburg
fringe wrote:
mousegarden wrote:
My Filter hasn't even arrived there yet, and Mark is going away for a month, so, I guess I'm going to be without my filter for a couple more months.....

:sadbanana:

MouseGarden.



Will he not be responding to emails during this month?


I think Verbos Electronics has a staff of at least 3-4 people, so you should receive a response regardless. When I sent in my dual four pole is was serviced by Sonya, not Mark.
stephentrask
mritenburg wrote:


I think Verbos Electronics has a staff of at least 3-4 people, so you should receive a response regardless. When I sent in my dual four pole is was serviced by Sonya, not Mark.



yeah, that's about right. I don't think Mark was going alone to Germany but someone must be left behind watching the shop. I think it's best to contact through the website than through Mark's email directly.
drxcm
Good news to those waiting - the multi-envelope is in stock at AH - hopefully shipping today!

My 9U is finally complete!!

stephentrask
Nice looking rack, drxcm.


Verbos Electronics posted this on their FB page:

https://www.facebook.com/verboselectronics/photos/a.399332246867833.10 73741828.398923913575333/605302046270851/?type=1&theater

So, there it is - Scan and Pan (with a misspelling.) It's between the Harmonic Oscillator and the Multi-Envelope.
mousegarden
Just checked the tracking number, my filter was delivered to the shop on the 14th, I'm just going to mail them to get them to confirm.

MouseGarden.
quadrupole
stephentrask wrote:
Nice looking rack, drxcm.


Verbos Electronics posted this on their FB page:

https://www.facebook.com/verboselectronics/photos/a.399332246867833.10 73741828.398923913575333/605302046270851/?type=1&theater

So, there it is - Scan and Pan (with a misspelling.) It's between the Harmonic Oscillator and the Multi-Envelope.


Good catch! Looking forward to hearing what this module can do!
stephentrask
[img][/img]
dang_motu
stephentrask wrote:
[img][/img]


Is it still just crickets for this one? waah
stephentrask
dang_motu wrote:


Is it still just crickets for this one? waah


There don't seem to be any interviews. I would imagine that the typical man at the booth interview wouldn't really show it off all that well anyhow. I'm sure it's a great sounding mixer with cv controllable panning and cv controllable scanning across the four channels.

What I would like to see would be an expansion module that is just the mixer without the scanning section , something that can turn the unit into an 8 channel board.
trickness
Details on the Scan & Pan - Verbos replied to my query via Facebook, here's the unedited reply:

"It is a 4 channel mixer with voltage controller level and pan on each channel, also CENTER and WIDTH scan control of the levels, like the Harmonic Oscillator's mixer. The signal path is all discrete transistors, with Gain control on the channel inputs. It is DC coupled, so audio or CVs can be applied. 14 HP."
dang_motu
Cool, thank you trickness
gottberg
Did he say anything about individual outputs?
trickness
gottberg wrote:
Did he say anything about individual outputs?


here's the unedited reply:

"It is a 4 channel mixer with voltage controller level and pan on each channel, also CENTER and WIDTH scan control of the levels, like the Harmonic Oscillator's mixer. The signal path is all discrete transistors, with Gain control on the channel inputs. It is DC coupled, so audio or CVs can be applied. 14 HP."
stephentrask
I don't think there are individual outs. There are the audio inputs and then two rows of cv inputs for each channel, one panning and one level. This is from memory - I have a brochure for this on my kitchen counter but I am not there. That's what I remember, though.
gottberg
I looked at it real close, couldn't tell. There is space for that on the right side?
stephentrask
I believe in the strip on the right there are the two scan controls with cv inputs and at the top the L/R outputs.
dang_motu
[img]https://www.dropbox.com/s/dlheycog721hn5m/2015-04-20%2020.26.32.j pg?dl=0[/img]

Is there any audio of this?
gonkulator
trickness wrote:
Details on the Scan & Pan - Verbos replied to my query via Facebook, here's the unedited reply:

"It is a 4 channel mixer with voltage controller level and pan on each channel, also CENTER and WIDTH scan control of the levels, like the Harmonic Oscillator's mixer. The signal path is all discrete transistors, with Gain control on the channel inputs. It is DC coupled, so audio or CVs can be applied. 14 HP."

hyper
Definitely in need of this.
trickness
Only bummer is, when I asked for a street date for the module, the reply I got was "no idea yet". So we'll have to be happy with the new Multi Envelope for a bit it seems thumbs up
stephentrask
Does anyone else think that an expander with 4 extra channels fed into the same master output is a good idea or something they would be interested in?
gottberg
stephentrask wrote:
Does anyone else think that an expander with 4 extra channels fed into the same master output is a good idea or something they would be interested in?


Stereo auxiliary inputs would be a good start!
jvt
gottberg wrote:
stephentrask wrote:
Does anyone else think that an expander with 4 extra channels fed into the same master output is a good idea or something they would be interested in?


Stereo auxiliary inputs would be a good start!

I'd love to see something with 6 inputs instead of 4. Something a bit closer to a Buchla 207/207e. Four inputs never seems to be enough.
mritenburg
jvt wrote:
gottberg wrote:
stephentrask wrote:
Does anyone else think that an expander with 4 extra channels fed into the same master output is a good idea or something they would be interested in?


Stereo auxiliary inputs would be a good start!

I'd love to see something with 6 inputs instead of 4. Something a bit closer to a Buchla 207/207e. Four inputs never seems to be enough.


I agree that mixers never have enough inputs, but it looks like the mixer is designed to fill the remaining free HP so that all of the Verbos modules (including keyboard) fill 9Ux84HP without any wasted space. At least that is how it looks in the photo. With the addition of the envelope and mixer, the Verbos can exist as a stand-alone system.
stephentrask
mritenburg wrote:

I agree that mixers never have enough inputs, but it looks like the mixer is designed to fill the remaining free HP so that all of the Verbos modules (including keyboard) fill 9Ux84HP without any wasted space. At least that is how it looks in the photo. With the addition of the envelope and mixer, the Verbos can exist as a stand-alone system.


Good eye.
Leverkusen
stephentrask wrote:
mritenburg wrote:

I agree that mixers never have enough inputs, but it looks like the mixer is designed to fill the remaining free HP so that all of the Verbos modules (including keyboard) fill 9Ux84HP without any wasted space. At least that is how it looks in the photo. With the addition of the envelope and mixer, the Verbos can exist as a stand-alone system.


Good eye.


That was my first thought too and I love to see the case 'finished' but than I wondered what for I would use a 4 track mixer/scanner/panner in this given case. And how I would modulate it. It is a useful module but is it really what makes this system eventually a stand alone system?
mritenburg
Leverkusen wrote:
stephentrask wrote:
mritenburg wrote:

I agree that mixers never have enough inputs, but it looks like the mixer is designed to fill the remaining free HP so that all of the Verbos modules (including keyboard) fill 9Ux84HP without any wasted space. At least that is how it looks in the photo. With the addition of the envelope and mixer, the Verbos can exist as a stand-alone system.


Good eye.


That was my first thought too and I love to see the case 'finished' but than I wondered what for I would use a 4 track mixer/scanner/panner in this given case. And how I would modulate it. It is a useful module but is it really what makes this system eventually a stand alone system?


When I look at the Verbos composition system I see 4 independent oscillators with 21 individual signal outputs:

Complex Osc has two independent vcos with 7 outputs
Harmonic Osc is one independent vco with 12 outputs
Voltage Multistage is one independent graphic vco with 2 outputs

At minimum, any mixer is going help in creating unique timbres by mixing those various outputs.

The touch keyboard 8 tuned keys and pitch bender can supply control voltages for modulating the mixer.
stephentrask
And the Harmonic Oscillator produces 8 different frequencies with 4 different tones.
Leverkusen
Off course you are right! I misread the 9Ux84HP and referred to the left system on the picture with just one Harmonic OSC. It has a mixer for the 8 harmonics on board and I would use the envelopes there and on the ATC most of the time. You could make use of a mixer there, I just would not do it that much and maybe miss another CV source (sequencing/S&H/Randomness) more. But this is just me. And in the end a relatively small mixer (in regard to other verbs modules) is a good thing.

Anyway in a 9Ux84HP system would still be 1HP left blank, I think. So the measurements stay a little mysterious for me...have to test how it fits in both of the verbs preconfigured systems.
hottlipps
got my verbos multi-envelope in the mail today. shipped with it was the verbos electronics 2015 catalog that you can see in the background of the musikmesse 2015 picture that first shows the pan & scan module.

so here is the card that came with the multi-envelope


and here's it's write up in the catalog which explains another mode


and here's the pan & scan page from the catalog

stephentrask
The Multi Envelope is a blast to play with. I've been using it for a lot of rhythmic work. The only thing that is not working the way I expect is the end pulse. I would think that the R stage would run to it's very end before the end pulse but often it seems interrupted so that the envelope doesn't loop the way I would have thought. Even the first stage seems truncated by the End Pulse trigger.

hottlipps Do you find the same? I could very easily be doing something wrong, as I don't know what I'm doing.(see my signature)
trickness
stephentrask wrote:
The Multi Envelope is a blast to play with. I've been using it for a lot of rhythmic work. The only thing that is not working the way I expect is the end pulse. I would think that the R stage would run to it's very end before the end pulse but often it seems interrupted so that the envelope doesn't loop the way I would have thought. Even the first stage seems truncated by the End Pulse trigger.

hottlipps Do you find the same? I could very easily be doing something wrong, as I don't know what I'm doing.(see my signature)


Mine arrives tomorrow and I'll check and post. Hopefully it will be a little bit more intuitive than the VMS, other than basic sequencing and envelopes I'm totally lost.....
stephentrask
trickness wrote:
stephentrask wrote:
The Multi Envelope is a blast to play with. I've been using it for a lot of rhythmic work. The only thing that is not working the way I expect is the end pulse. I would think that the R stage would run to it's very end before the end pulse but often it seems interrupted so that the envelope doesn't loop the way I would have thought. Even the first stage seems truncated by the End Pulse trigger.

hottlipps Do you find the same? I could very easily be doing something wrong, as I don't know what I'm doing.(see my signature)


Mine arrives tomorrow and I'll check and post. Hopefully it will be a little bit more intuitive than the VMS, other than basic sequencing and envelopes I'm totally lost.....


Thanks. I think it's mostly intuitive. I read that card the card that came with it, the one hottlipps posted, a couple of times but otherwise I have found that it's something you can figure out while playing. The sliders make it really run to improvise on.

When does the VMS get non-intuitive for you?
trickness
stephentrask wrote:
trickness wrote:
stephentrask wrote:
The Multi Envelope is a blast to play with. I've been using it for a lot of rhythmic work. The only thing that is not working the way I expect is the end pulse. I would think that the R stage would run to it's very end before the end pulse but often it seems interrupted so that the envelope doesn't loop the way I would have thought. Even the first stage seems truncated by the End Pulse trigger.

hottlipps Do you find the same? I could very easily be doing something wrong, as I don't know what I'm doing.(see my signature)


Mine arrives tomorrow and I'll check and post. Hopefully it will be a little bit more intuitive than the VMS, other than basic sequencing and envelopes I'm totally lost.....


Thanks. I think it's mostly intuitive. I read that card the card that came with it, the one hottlipps posted, a couple of times but otherwise I have found that it's something you can figure out while playing. The sliders make it really run to improvise on.

When does the VMS get non-intuitive for you?


I'm stuck on the top row of sliders...still trying to figure out wtf the bottom row of sliders does, are they for pitch or stage length? Thought CV B would be 1v Oct out controlled by the bottom sliders, it's not, and how both rows interact with the buttons perplexes me. The fact that the "manual" doesn't describe what everything does and how it interacts is a real drag, no good demos online either. I have Rene and if there was a one paragraph manual and no video demos I would have kicked that fucker like a football when I got it very frustrating I held off buying the VMS because I knew it was deep and the manual sucked so badly. That said, there's a lot I need to learn, it's just that Verbos doesn't make it any easier.
stephentrask
trickness wrote:

I'm stuck on the top row of sliders...still trying to figure out wtf the bottom row of sliders does, are they for pitch or stage length?


The bottom row of sliders is much like the top. It has 8 stages, each of which produce a control voltage, or c.v. The cv of each stage is set by the position of the slider associated with that stage. The output for the row is c.v.b. The output from c.v.b. can be used to control anything that is controllable by c.v. So, you might use it to control the tuning of an oscillator. If c.v.a. is being using to control a different oscillator then you can tune the two rows of sliders so that they cause the the two oscillators to produce a series of intervals. The Composition System has three independent oscillators so you can use two to create an implied chord progression with the series of intervals and play a melody on the third. You can use row b (or a, for that matter) to control any other c.v. controllable function. For instance use a to control pitch of an oscillator and b to control F.M. If you have stackcables you can control f.m. of an oscillator whose pitch is controlled by the other row and also pitch of a different oscillator, or the cutoff on the Dual Four Pole or Amplitude Tone Control.

You can also use c.v.b. to control the VMS itself. Plug the c.v.b. output into the VMS time c.v. input and now the sliders control the amount of time for each stage. This allows you to set each stage length to a different amount. If the length set by the even number sliders is a bit more than a third that of the odd numbers you get the beginnings of a swing rhythm. If the time c.v attenuverter is turned fully ccw, the time is entirely set by the c.v.b. output. As you turn it clockwise, control from the Time knob is blended back in. Find a cool starting point and play the knobs (or sliders.) Try this rhythm: in the bottom row, set stages 3 and 6 to six times the length of 1 and 2. Set 7 and 8 to eight times the length of 1 and 2. Take c.v.b out to time c.v. in and turn the time c.v. attenuverter all the way ccw. Now your rhythm is 1 and/2/3/4/ , 2 and/2/3/4/ 3, 4. in a four measure pattern. If you are using the top row to set the levels of each stage of an envelope, you can use the bottom row to set the length of each of those stages.

The big difference between the top row and the bottom row is the rows of switches and stage outputs along the top. Those two are only associated with the top row. The gate for each stage in the bottom row is always high. It will produce it’s voltage instantly and for the full length of the stage. The top row has options. With the switch set to on, each stage in the top row has a high gate. Set in the middle,to off, and that stage is disabled. The level of the previous stage will be continued. With the switch in the up position the stage will glide to it’s c.v. for the entire length of the stage. The switches won’t effect the bottom row. The top row also has the stage outputs which can be used to control any c.v. controllable function. The bottom row does not.

The manual is a bit terse. When you remove the e, verbose apparently means it’s opposite.It’s densely written and not proof-read but most of the information is pretty much in there, give or take. Once you start to play around with using the top row and bottom row independently, revisit it and it might make more sense. The manual for this module is definitely one for which an accompanying picture to help visualize the text would be greatly appreciated.

Forgive me if I repeated stuff you know.
trickness
stephentrask wrote:
trickness wrote:

I'm stuck on the top row of sliders...still trying to figure out wtf the bottom row of sliders does, are they for pitch or stage length?


The bottom row of sliders is much like the top. It has 8 stages, each of which produce a control voltage, or c.v. The cv of each stage is set by the position of the slider associated with that stage. The output for the row is c.v.b. The output from c.v.b. can be used to control anything that is controllable by c.v. So, you might use it to control the tuning of an oscillator. If c.v.a. is being using to control a different oscillator then you can tune the two rows of sliders so that they cause the the two oscillators to produce a series of intervals. The Composition System has three independent oscillators so you can use two to create an implied chord progression with the series of intervals and play a melody on the third. You can use row b (or a, for that matter) to control any other c.v. controllable function. For instance use a to control pitch of an oscillator and b to control F.M. If you have stackcables you can control f.m. of an oscillator whose pitch is controlled by the other row and also pitch of a different oscillator, or the cutoff on the Dual Four Pole or Amplitude Tone Control.

You can also use c.v.b. to control the VMS itself. Plug the c.v.b. output into the VMS time c.v. input and now the sliders control the amount of time for each stage. This allows you to set each stage length to a different amount. If the length set by the even number sliders is a bit more than a third that of the odd numbers you get the beginnings of a swing rhythm. If the time c.v attenuverter is turned fully ccw, the time is entirely set by the c.v.b. output. As you turn it clockwise, control from the Time knob is blended back in. Find a cool starting point and play the knobs (or sliders.) Try this rhythm: in the bottom row, set stages 3 and 6 to six times the length of 1 and 2. Set 7 and 8 to eight times the length of 1 and 2. Take c.v.b out to time c.v. in and turn the time c.v. attenuverter all the way ccw. Now your rhythm is 1 and/2/3/4/ , 2 and/2/3/4/ 3, 4. in a four measure pattern. If you are using the top row to set the levels of each stage of an envelope, you can use the bottom row to set the length of each of those stages.

The big difference between the top row and the bottom row is the rows of switches and stage outputs along the top. Those two are only associated with the top row. The gate for each stage in the bottom row is always high. It will produce it’s voltage instantly and for the full length of the stage. The top row has options. With the switch set to on, each stage in the top row has a high gate. Set in the middle,to off, and that stage is disabled. The level of the previous stage will be continued. With the switch in the up position the stage will glide to it’s c.v. for the entire length of the stage. The switches won’t effect the bottom row. The top row also has the stage outputs which can be used to control any c.v. controllable function. The bottom row does not.

The manual is a bit terse. When you remove the e, verbose apparently means it’s opposite.It’s densely written and not proof-read but most of the information is pretty much in there, give or take. Once you start to play around with using the top row and bottom row independently, revisit it and it might make more sense. The manual for this module is definitely one for which an accompanying picture to help visualize the text would be greatly appreciated.

Forgive me if I repeated stuff you know.


Stephen thanks so much for taking the time out to write this, truly appreciated. I did know some of what you said, CVB for instance to control pitch on an OSC, but the other uses, especially patching CVB to control the VMS itself, and where to plug it in, I was missing. And of course the more sophisticated patches you mention with rhythms.

I really wish Verbos would do some Makenoise style demo videos (perhaps a bit less dry than that!) to show what all the inputs do, with suggested patches alongside other Verbos modules. Your post is the most useful I've read on the VMS since buying it; again, many thanks for this.
stephentrask
No problem,trickness. I hope it works out. I haven't tried that rhythm yet myself. I was going to today but once I start playing it's hard to stay on track.

Another thing I'd like to try is tuning cva for one oscillator, cvb for another, then multing cvb into the first oscillators FM. Then retuning that one. That should make for some nice variation.
mousegarden
I want my filter back, I'm having withdrawal......
The symptoms are quite alarming, I'm making involuntary jerks to where it was in my cabinet, and I keep making filter type sounds with my mouth, I took a couple of tramodol this morning, they seem to be making it a bit easier......

MouseGarden.
stephentrask
How awful. What's worse is I think the whole team is in Europe right now until Saturday.
mousegarden
stephentrask wrote:
How awful. What's worse is I think the whole team is in Europe right now until Saturday.


I was thinking of going to New York to pick it up, do you think that's a bit extreme though ?

MouseGarden.
stephentrask
Well, if you're looking for an excuse to go to New York it could be fun. On the other hand, you could just buy a second DFP for much less than the cost of the flight. Then you'll have two when it comes back. It's almost worth it just to get rid of the odd HP.
mousegarden
stephentrask wrote:
Well, if you're looking for an excuse to go to New York it could be fun. On the other hand, you could just buy a second DFP for much less than the cost of the flight. Then you'll have two when it comes back. It's almost worth it just to get rid of the odd HP.


Brilliant idea !

thumbs up

MouseGarden.
Naut.Sirius
stephentrask wrote:
Well, if you're looking for an excuse to go to New York it could be fun. On the other hand, you could just buy a second DFP for much less than the cost of the flight. Then you'll have two when it comes back. It's almost worth it just to get rid of the odd HP.


That's perfect Muffwiggler logic right there. Well done Sir, well done Guinness ftw!
stephentrask
Naut.Sirius Thank you very much, sir. I'm new but I'm learning.
hottlipps
stephentrask wrote:
The Multi Envelope is a blast to play with. I've been using it for a lot of rhythmic work. The only thing that is not working the way I expect is the end pulse. I would think that the R stage would run to it's very end before the end pulse but often it seems interrupted so that the envelope doesn't loop the way I would have thought. Even the first stage seems truncated by the End Pulse trigger.

hottlipps Do you find the same? I could very easily be doing something wrong, as I don't know what I'm doing.(see my signature)


stephentrask I am not experiencing that. I am having fun with making the end of pulse trigger the next envelope and having that set of envelopes modulate what I am using the first envelope for.

So far this is a very funky little module. Compares very positively to the Cwejman dual envelope. It's laid out perfect. The sliders didn't work the way I thought they would, they seem to catch the sound at different points than say an SH-101 would. This is great as it offers some really interesting rhythmic possibilities. It's very interesting where say the attack catches or all the possibilities with the release.

Having all these envelope shapes at once is so nice. And I really like this ADAsR one, very cool envelope. Using that and then one of the envelopes that start with a Decay modulating is creating some really desirable out comes.

In the looping mode I am also having a blast. It didn't react like I thought it would, I was able to control the speed of the looping with release. I tried these with panning on the dub mix and was able to sculpt some really cool shapes. I was surprised at the variety. I really liked the way one slider was affecting the sound, so I added a modulator into that sliders input and that very action was very exciting to me. A very interesting way to modulate the modulator.

Both envelopes can be multi-envelopes or put into looping quadrature mode, but the top multi-envelope has that one additional envelope that is really unique and may become the trademark of this module.
stephentrask
That's a pretty great description, hottlipps. You are far more articulate than I. Good to know that my glitch isn't typical of the whole batch.

I have noticed in general that Mark's modules seem to direct my improvisation in rhythmic directions. I remember reading somewhere Alessandro Cortini describing the Verbos stuff as 50% Buchla, 50% techno. That seems about right. It's hard to not find fantastic polyrhythms and syncopations. Patching the ME to control the VCAs for two VCOs, tuned in fifths, with one VCA controlled by an Attack first shape and one by a delay first shape sets the stage for some really great rhythmic interplay. Triggering that with the keyboard was quite fun.
Sugarnspice
Does anyone have a Wishlist for new modules to come from Verbos?

It's a small thing but I'd like to see a delay (unless I missed it?) Buchla style.

I don't have the technical chops to suggest anything more complicated.

Though I was reading about how the harmonic oscillator works on the first 8 harmonics of each wave form... How many harmonics could there be in total? Is the oscillator expandable? To work on further harmonics? Though now I'm just thinking how nice it would be to have TWO of these babies... *sigh*
thetwlo
Sugarnspice wrote:

It's a small thing but I'd like to see a delay (unless I missed it?) Buchla style.


288v?
Sugarnspice
thetwlo wrote:
Sugarnspice wrote:

It's a small thing but I'd like to see a delay (unless I missed it?) Buchla style.


288v?


Oh, wait, no, I hadn't seen this one. Earlier series stuff? I'll have to do more homework.
mousegarden
Sugarnspice wrote:
Does anyone have a Wishlist for new modules to come from Verbos?


How about a compact all in one synth ? a cheaper Music Easel....

MouseGarden.
stephentrask
Sugarnspice wrote:
Does anyone have a Wishlist for new modules to come from Verbos?

It's a small thing but I'd like to see a delay (unless I missed it?) Buchla style.

I don't have the technical chops to suggest anything more complicated.

Though I was reading about how the harmonic oscillator works on the first 8 harmonics of each wave form... How many harmonics could there be in total? Is the oscillator expandable? To work on further harmonics? Though now I'm just thinking how nice it would be to have TWO of these babies... *sigh*


I would love to see a new filter, maybe a proper bandpass filter with more than one input and multiple simultaneous selectable frequencies and a cv controlled mixer section like the Harmonic Oscillator or the Pan and Scan.

I'd like to see a dual version of the Amplitude and Tone Control laid out like the Dual Four Pole Filter so you can get the function of two in significantly less space but still maintain the ergonomics. Perhaps a separate output for the LPG/preamp section that breaks the normal between it and the amplifier. Perhaps an option to route both preamp sections to the same amplifier.

I wouldn't mind seeing a version of the Voltage Multistage designed to be a slave to another VMS or sequencer rather than having an independent clock section. If this included some complex sequential switching then the two units could be combined into two 16 step sequencers or one 32 step or a 24 step with one row used to control the clock. If the clock allowed for randomly accessing different stages across both units it could get quite interesting.
Dogma
id like to see some smaller items from Mark. Id love a single Verbos OSc....that does something cool at lfo rates...
Id love to see some more scan modules too - take that concept further..
And a full modulation monster if he goes large again......
alamilla
Sugarnspice wrote:
Does anyone have a Wishlist for new modules to come from Verbos?

It's a small thing but I'd like to see a delay (unless I missed it?) Buchla style.

+1 on the delay!

I know two of his current Eurorack modules (HO + VM) were designs directly ported from his Buchla format work.
If he does do a conversion of the 288v that would be incredible although not sure how viable an exact clone would be with the chips he used in that build.

It's a very interesting approach to delays though; multiple inputs, delay taps, output mixer, phase switches!

Full thread here:
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17403&sid=2439196d21 180ceab6369e88f8d4d1c6
stephentrask
A take on the 288v would be fantastic. I will of course get everything he puts out.
moegl
+1 288v!
Dogma
moegl wrote:
+1 288v!


Holy shit! Ill take one of those for sure..has that skip and drag feel of the VMS...Like Stepehen Id love a full 16 step version...VMS is pure funk.
Sugarnspice
I'll second that! A $2800 music easel? Even if it was slightly cut down, or you had to add your own midi keyboard...
Ranstedt
At Knobcon 2014 Mark Verbos said he had several more designs that are prototype level and modules should be coming at a "steady trickle."

At 44:10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkpwUkVO0u4

Since the video was recorded, the multi-envelope was released, and the Scan & Pan was announced. So there's at least 1-2 modules we don't know about yet. applause
jarvis
I've been playing more with my Dual Four Pole - absolutely love the sound but I have a question about the resonance behavior.

The resonance has very strange response - when I turn the resonance knob up I can hear the change immediately. However, when I quickly turn the resonance from all the way up to all the way down, it takes a good 2.5-3s for it to "settle" all the way down. This, to me, seems to be a vactrol with a slow fall time. Does anyone else see this behavior?
splump
jarvis wrote:
I've been playing more with my Dual Four Pole - absolutely love the sound but I have a question about the resonance behavior.

The resonance has very strange response - when I turn the resonance knob up I can hear the change immediately. However, when I quickly turn the resonance from all the way up to all the way down, it takes a good 2.5-3s for it to "settle" all the way down. This, to me, seems to be a vactrol with a slow fall time. Does anyone else see this behavior?


I'm getting this too! I have always also ascribed this behaviour to the fact that there are vactrols in there. Absolutely love this filter.
gottberg
jarvis wrote:
I've been playing more with my Dual Four Pole - absolutely love the sound but I have a question about the resonance behavior.

The resonance has very strange response - when I turn the resonance knob up I can hear the change immediately. However, when I quickly turn the resonance from all the way up to all the way down, it takes a good 2.5-3s for it to "settle" all the way down. This, to me, seems to be a vactrol with a slow fall time. Does anyone else see this behavior?


I saw your post and then read the text above your avatar and it gave me a good laugh hihi

Yes, that would probably be a vactrol. I didn't know the DFP had such a slow response. Have does it FM?
jarvis
gottberg wrote:
I saw your post and then read the text above your avatar and it gave me a good laugh hihi

Yes, that would probably be a vactrol. I didn't know the DFP had such a slow response. Have does it FM?


Guinness ftw!

I'm not sure this is so insignificant though. It drastically slews the CV input of the resonance - it effectively slews an AC square wave into a steady DC voltage (I haven't scoped it but this is the audible effect).

The frequency CV inputs are very responsive though – you can throw anything at those without it slewing.
klontart
+1 on the 288v. But I'm even more interested in a 266 style SoU.
drxcm
Anyone else have the multi-env?

I've not gelled with it that well. It's decay phase is not particularly smooth on mine, voltage wiggles a bit on the way down - not really ideal. Will try and scope it and report back.

Anyone else had the same?
stephentrask
drxcm wrote:
Anyone else have the multi-env?

I've not gelled with it that well. It's decay phase is not particularly smooth on mine, voltage wiggles a bit on the way down - not really ideal. Will try and scope it and report back.

Anyone else had the same?


I have the Multi-Envelope. I noticed the other day a little wiggle at the very end of my decay phase but I think it was related to the CV input on the VCA I was pairing it with, as it went away when I switched to a different amp. The effect was sort of a tiny bump just as the stage reached it's very end. I have also noticed that sometimes I need to fiddle with the Sustain stage in order for there to be a smooth transition from D to S. But I can smooth that by adjusting the sustain level.

The one glitch I had I mentioned a few posts ago had to do with a misfiring in the Release stage which was very noticeable when looping with the end pulse. If yours was from the first batch out the door that could be an issue and perhaps that is related to your problem.
stephentrask
drxcm wrote:
Anyone else have the multi-env?

I've not gelled with it that well. It's decay phase is not particularly smooth on mine, voltage wiggles a bit on the way down - not really ideal. Will try and scope it and report back.

Anyone else had the same?


Did you scope the decay phase? Or make a recording?
GeneralPotato
When is the Multi Envelope arriving in Europe? More precisely, UK? More precisely still, Cheshire?
J3RK
stephentrask wrote:
The Multi Envelope is a blast to play with. I've been using it for a lot of rhythmic work. The only thing that is not working the way I expect is the end pulse. I would think that the R stage would run to it's very end before the end pulse but often it seems interrupted so that the envelope doesn't loop the way I would have thought. Even the first stage seems truncated by the End Pulse trigger.

hottlipps Do you find the same? I could very easily be doing something wrong, as I don't know what I'm doing.(see my signature)


The end pulse is usually done via a comparator. There has to be a threshold for where it switches over, and that typically is a little over 0V. So you'd get the pulse (and loop point) a little before the actual end of the full non-looped envelope. I'm not sure what the threshold would be that Mark uses, but you could see it on a scope.
stephentrask
J3RK wrote:
stephentrask wrote:
The Multi Envelope is a blast to play with. I've been using it for a lot of rhythmic work. The only thing that is not working the way I expect is the end pulse. I would think that the R stage would run to it's very end before the end pulse but often it seems interrupted so that the envelope doesn't loop the way I would have thought. Even the first stage seems truncated by the End Pulse trigger.

hottlipps Do you find the same? I could very easily be doing something wrong, as I don't know what I'm doing.(see my signature)


The end pulse is usually done via a comparator. There has to be a threshold for where it switches over, and that typically is a little over 0V. So you'd get the pulse (and loop point) a little before the actual end of the full non-looped envelope. I'm not sure what the threshold would be that Mark uses, but you could see it on a scope.


I took mine it in to Mark. The first batch went out with an incorrect value, which means something to people like Mark and you. It took him about 30 seconds to fix. So, are you saying there is some voltage slightly over zero at which the comparator triggers a pulse? Am I getting that correct?
Sven Kalmar
hey guys. new here. i have a shared system 2 with a Harmonic osc and a dual 4 pole. just ordered a voltage multi. I love these modules..the soundquality, feel etc. Talking about bandpass..i was thinking of making a filterbank with multiple dual4poles.4 or something..hehe.
i love the sound of the dual 4 pole. these verbos modules are so openended.thats really cool. and those rich vibrant sounds of the harmonic osc.
I had a problem with the harmonic osc and mark V fixed it really quick..thanks a lot.
mousegarden
He He ! Just got my Filter back ! Looking forward to using it tommorow !

thumbs up

MouseGarden.
stephentrask
mousegarden
Have fun with that filter.

The latest version of the Verbos Composition System at Analogue Haven includes the Multi Envelope.
http://www.analoguehaven.com/verboselectronics/compositionsystem/
mousegarden
stephentrask wrote:
mousegarden
Have fun with that filter.

The latest version of the Verbos Composition System at Analogue Haven includes the Multi Envelope.
http://www.analoguehaven.com/verboselectronics/compositionsystem/


Sure will ! Being without something for ages is like having it for the first time again ! Maybe that's a good cure if you get fed up with a module, just stick it in the cupboard for a few months !

MouseGarden.
J3RK
stephentrask wrote:
J3RK wrote:
stephentrask wrote:
The Multi Envelope is a blast to play with. I've been using it for a lot of rhythmic work. The only thing that is not working the way I expect is the end pulse. I would think that the R stage would run to it's very end before the end pulse but often it seems interrupted so that the envelope doesn't loop the way I would have thought. Even the first stage seems truncated by the End Pulse trigger.

hottlipps Do you find the same? I could very easily be doing something wrong, as I don't know what I'm doing.(see my signature)


The end pulse is usually done via a comparator. There has to be a threshold for where it switches over, and that typically is a little over 0V. So you'd get the pulse (and loop point) a little before the actual end of the full non-looped envelope. I'm not sure what the threshold would be that Mark uses, but you could see it on a scope.


I took mine it in to Mark. The first batch went out with an incorrect value, which means something to people like Mark and you. It took him about 30 seconds to fix. So, are you saying there is some voltage slightly over zero at which the comparator triggers a pulse? Am I getting that correct?


Correct. It's just a guess, but I'm thinking he may have changed out a value that would adjust the voltage that that happens at. (the threshold)
mousegarden
Just been exploring my Four Pole since it came back form Verbos, maybe I'm imagining it, but I don't think so. The cut-off on the LP had a tendency to "bunch up" at one end of the knob, it doesn't do that anymore, it's much more even across the knob. Also, the resonance is a lot more pronounced when not using a CV, and most of all, the noise seems to be a lot better.

thumbs up

MouseGarden.
Sven Kalmar
i got the Voltage Multi the other day. I love the verbos stuff. got the Dual4 and Harm Osc. along with shared system 2. They comliment each other very well I think. Guess there will be more Verbos modules along the road.
pinhole_sunrise
Has anyone experienced bleeding with the Harmonic Oscillator with other modules? I've tried it in two different cases and in both cases my Dr Octature and Shuffling Clock Multiplier are effecting the HO's waveforms unpatched.
mousegarden
pinhole_sunrise wrote:
Has anyone experienced bleeding with the Harmonic Oscillator with other modules? I've tried it in two different cases and in both cases my Dr Octature and Shuffling Clock Multiplier are effecting the HO's waveforms unpatched.


This is on my shopping list, but I've come to the final conclusion that modular is so complex, and so much can go wrong that it's pointless even worrying about faults like this, some models are so complex and mysterious that TBQH I wouldn't know if half of my stuff is even working properly ! But it doesn't make any difference really.

MouseGarden.
pinhole_sunrise
Don't get me wrong, the HO is awesome I just haven't experienced this with any other module over the past 7 years. It's really noticble with the sines and seeing how they're not exactly clean to begin with it can throw off some of the textures I'm trying to create.
severence
pinhole_sunrise wrote:
Has anyone experienced bleeding with the Harmonic Oscillator with other modules? I've tried it in two different cases and in both cases my Dr Octature and Shuffling Clock Multiplier are effecting the HO's waveforms unpatched.


i haven't experienced any bleeding at all with the harmonic oscillator and have also had it installed in a couple of different cases... lovely sounding module, hope you get it sorted out.
mousegarden
pinhole_sunrise wrote:
Has anyone experienced bleeding with the Harmonic Oscillator with other modules? I've tried it in two different cases and in both cases my Dr Octature and Shuffling Clock Multiplier are effecting the HO's waveforms unpatched.


You say in both cases ? are you using the Octature and Clock in both ? In which case it could point to problems with those modules ?

MouseGarden.
exper
What power as well? Switching, linear? Brand?
pinhole_sunrise
One case is a Monorocket MX104, the other is MX6

True it could be both those modules, but theyve never had any effect on any of my other analog oscillators before -DPO, WMD/SSF, Pittsburgh, TipTop
mousegarden
pinhole_sunrise wrote:
One case is a Monorocket MX104, the other is MX6

True it could be both those modules, but theyve never had any effect on any of my other analog oscillators before -DPO, WMD/SSF, Pittsburgh, TipTop


As you are in the USA, you have an automatic advantage to us Europeans, I would call Mark Verbos, or mail him and ship it back for a check-up, he's a cool guy and I'm sure he will do it. But first make sure you do a thorough "process of elimination" check.

MouseGarden.
FatRocky
Anyone got some news on the panning mixer?
biftek
FatRocky wrote:
Anyone got some news on the panning mixer?


I was in their shop earlier and asked, he said best case a few months worst case NAMM. Also said it would probably be a comparatively cheaper module in their line.

Also want to say the Verbos team was super nice and helpful solving some issues I had with a couple modules. Awesome support. w00t
thesnow
biftek wrote:
FatRocky wrote:
Anyone got some news on the panning mixer?


I was in their shop earlier and asked, he said best case a few months worst case NAMM. Also said it would probably be a comparatively cheaper module in their line.

Also want to say the Verbos team was super nice and helpful solving some issues I had with a couple modules. Awesome support. w00t


excellent customer service is great. but I can't help noticing lots of different forum members constantly mentioning that one or more of their modules needed servicing. what is that about. I know they're a fairly new company
mousegarden
thesnow wrote:
biftek wrote:
FatRocky wrote:
Anyone got some news on the panning mixer?


I was in their shop earlier and asked, he said best case a few months worst case NAMM. Also said it would probably be a comparatively cheaper module in their line.

Also want to say the Verbos team was super nice and helpful solving some issues I had with a couple modules. Awesome support. w00t


excellent customer service is great. but I can't help noticing lots of different forum members constantly mentioning that one or more of their modules needed servicing. what is that about. I know they're a fairly new company


When you think about it, like a lot of folks, I have a quite a big system, and I can honestly say that I've never had any major problems, new or secondhand, from anyone. That's not bad, considering the complexity of things. OK, the Verbos filter had some issues, but it was fixed pronto, there are bound to be a few problems with things along the line somewhere, but on the whole, nothing major has ever gone wrong with my stuff.
nickbaba
What issue did you have with your filter Mousegarden?

I'm curious because I just got a 4-pole and the resonance behaviour on it seems a bit...strange?

Not much 'fade' on the knob, seems to kick in more-or-less suddenly full at about 9 0'clock and then stay the same all the rest of the way round... plus the sound is different than I'm used to from other resonances... hard to describe I guess but its 'screechy' rather than 'squelchy' if that makes sense. But maybe that's just the sound of the Verbos filter?

seriously, i just don't get it
biftek
nickbaba wrote:

Not much 'fade' on the knob, seems to kick in more-or-less suddenly full at about 9 0'clock and then stay the same all the rest of the way round... plus the sound is different than I'm used to from other resonances... hard to describe I guess but its 'screechy' rather than 'squelchy' if that makes sense. But maybe that's just the sound of the Verbos filter?


That's the intended behavior of the filter. You get fuller range when it's also being cv controlled.
It's resonance responds differently than other filters (even from their Amp. & Tone Controller, which should not be overlooked!) but that's a good thing in my opinion, it's its own beast.
It's peanut butter jelly time!
chrisso
haven't tried the Verbos, but original Buchla filters are strange/different.
I have an LPF in my vintage CBS System and it mostly just rolls off 'top'.
That's kind of the beauty of Buchla. It is 'different' to most other systems.
Dogma
Im really enjoying the Cold Mac with HO and mini-slew - very nice droney combo......
solaris
any realistic news about the scan&pan yet?
mousegarden
nickbaba wrote:
What issue did you have with your filter Mousegarden?

I'm curious because I just got a 4-pole and the resonance behaviour on it seems a bit...strange?

Not much 'fade' on the knob, seems to kick in more-or-less suddenly full at about 9 0'clock and then stay the same all the rest of the way round... plus the sound is different than I'm used to from other resonances... hard to describe I guess but its 'screechy' rather than 'squelchy' if that makes sense. But maybe that's just the sound of the Verbos filter?

seriously, i just don't get it


When I got the filter, it was definitely quite noisy, more so than I thought was supposed to be normal. Also, the resonance on the knobs didn't seem enough, it was fine when using a CV, but not when doing it manually. I sent it back and those things seem to have been rectified, also, it seems as though the evenness of the knobs is better, not so bunched up, but I may be wrong on that, I can't really member. But the noise is deffo better, and that was the main thing for me.
ndkent
mousegarden wrote:
nickbaba wrote:
What issue did you have with your filter Mousegarden?

I'm curious because I just got a 4-pole and the resonance behaviour on it seems a bit...strange?

Not much 'fade' on the knob, seems to kick in more-or-less suddenly full at about 9 0'clock and then stay the same all the rest of the way round... plus the sound is different than I'm used to from other resonances... hard to describe I guess but its 'screechy' rather than 'squelchy' if that makes sense. But maybe that's just the sound of the Verbos filter?

seriously, i just don't get it


When I got the filter, it was definitely quite noisy, more so than I thought was supposed to be normal. Also, the resonance on the knobs didn't seem enough, it was fine when using a CV, but not when doing it manually. I sent it back and those things seem to have been rectified, also, it seems as though the evenness of the knobs is better, not so bunched up, but I may be wrong on that, I can't really member. But the noise is deffo better, and that was the main thing for me.


yes, my resonance is pretty sudden. Also I had an early one so it had a hardware issue and an uncalibrated issue. Mark updated the hardware but something still seemed audibly not right so when I scoped it I was surprised to see an enormous DC offset as I presume it left the pre-Verbos owned factory uncalibrated and the hardware fix didn't involve recalibration. So the calibration could be taken care of with the trimmers and e-mail help from Mark. Anyway, definitely scope it. It wasn't my first filter that sounded odd because there was a big DC offset caused by it being uncalibrated
mousegarden
Sounds cool now though, and that's all that matters !

thumbs up
Sven Kalmar
https://www.facebook.com/sven.kalmar/videos/vb.100003120526741/8069248 06088196/?type=3&theater

hopefully its possible to see this. my humble system so far.
poor sound quality. recorded directly to the macbooks mic as my mixer went to hell. a bit to long i guess.
UmFuFu
Hey All,

This is my first time visiting this gargantuan thread so sorry if this has been covered, but I'm curious about the Scan & Pan...
Has it been officially announced yet? Any ideas as to ETA?

Thx!
Leverkusen
thesnow wrote:
biftek wrote:
FatRocky wrote:
Anyone got some news on the panning mixer?


I was in their shop earlier and asked, he said best case a few months worst case NAMM. Also said it would probably be a comparatively cheaper module in their line.

Also want to say the Verbos team was super nice and helpful solving some issues I had with a couple modules. Awesome support. w00t


excellent customer service is great. but I can't help noticing lots of different forum members constantly mentioning that one or more of their modules needed servicing. what is that about. I know they're a fairly new company

ndkent wrote:
mousegarden wrote:
nickbaba wrote:
What issue did you have with your filter Mousegarden?

I'm curious because I just got a 4-pole and the resonance behaviour on it seems a bit...strange?

Not much 'fade' on the knob, seems to kick in more-or-less suddenly full at about 9 0'clock and then stay the same all the rest of the way round... plus the sound is different than I'm used to from other resonances... hard to describe I guess but its 'screechy' rather than 'squelchy' if that makes sense. But maybe that's just the sound of the Verbos filter?

seriously, i just don't get it


When I got the filter, it was definitely quite noisy, more so than I thought was supposed to be normal. Also, the resonance on the knobs didn't seem enough, it was fine when using a CV, but not when doing it manually. I sent it back and those things seem to have been rectified, also, it seems as though the evenness of the knobs is better, not so bunched up, but I may be wrong on that, I can't really member. But the noise is deffo better, and that was the main thing for me.


yes, my resonance is pretty sudden. Also I had an early one so it had a hardware issue and an uncalibrated issue. Mark updated the hardware but something still seemed audibly not right so when I scoped it I was surprised to see an enormous DC offset as I presume it left the pre-Verbos owned factory uncalibrated and the hardware fix didn't involve recalibration. So the calibration could be taken care of with the trimmers and e-mail help from Mark. Anyway, definitely scope it. It wasn't my first filter that sounded odd because there was a big DC offset caused by it being uncalibrated


How did you manage to get that excellent customer service? I repeatedly tried the contact form on their website and mailed to an address Mark posted on the forum, err, 5 years ago. Unfortunately no reaction by now. I have a few of their modules and really love the sound of them but the faulty filter not so much. I think I would be okay with the resonance settings, overdrive and knob behavior, but got quite an annoying crosstalk between the two filter sections which makes it barely unusable in a lot of the possible settings. Dead Banana

I really would appreciate any hints in contacting them. confused
UmFuFu
No info on the mixer huh ;(
slirak
Leverkusen wrote:
I really would appreciate any hints in contacting them. confused


How long ago did you contact them? They're a very small company and Mark himself isn't just the circuit designer and main spokesman, he's also a touring musician and seems to have been playing live a lot recently.

Many of the best euro companies are very small operations, maybe just a couple of people, who are in to this more for the love of it than for profit. Which also means that support may be awesome, but response times very slow.

So allow at least two - three weeks before you get impatient, when dealing with smaller ventures, like Verbos.

BTW, the contact form on their site worked perfectly fine just a few weeks ago at least, and probably still does. The address info@verboselectronics.com should also work.
jarvis
My experience is that they can be slow to respond, but they always take care of you.
MindMachine
UmFuFu wrote:
Hey All,

This is my first time visiting this gargantuan thread so sorry if this has been covered, but I'm curious about the Scan & Pan...
Has it been officially announced yet? Any ideas as to ETA?

Thx!


Same here but it sounds like a bit of a gamble. I may wait a while once released to see how it 'pans' out. hihi

It sure looks exactly like what I need and want feature wise. Om
Leverkusen
slirak wrote:
Leverkusen wrote:
I really would appreciate any hints in contacting them. confused


How long ago did you contact them? They're a very small company and Mark himself isn't just the circuit designer and main spokesman, he's also a touring musician and seems to have been playing live a lot recently.

Many of the best euro companies are very small operations, maybe just a couple of people, who are in to this more for the love of it than for profit. Which also means that support may be awesome, but response times very slow.

So allow at least two - three weeks before you get impatient, when dealing with smaller ventures, like Verbos.

BTW, the contact form on their site worked perfectly fine just a few weeks ago at least, and probably still does. The address info@verboselectronics.com should also work.


Yes, I already heard that he has been at knobcon and atonal.

I sent a few messages, about one per week now for 3 - 4 weeks.

I don't want to sound too impatient or starting a big rant now but honestly spoken for me doing it for the love of it is connected to getting back to people who are in, well...small, troubles with the products of your love you are selling. It is possible to answer messages all over the world, at least with a short remark like "I am out of town but will come back to you next week". Thats, what I experienced with every other manufacturer, most of them answered questions in a day even when shipment took months. There are even robots who can do this for you...

But as long as I am in the window of about 3 weeks which seems to be the usual time he needs as I know now I rest assured for some more days...and try the info-address than...
slirak
Hehe, well, I've only contacted Verbos once and I'm not sure if it was exactly three weeks. smile But it's been the same with other small euro companies, two or three weeks for a reply isn't unusual.

I agree that it's not that great, but since many euro companies seem to be on a near hobby level, I can see why it happens. I think it's the same with every venture that starts out as a hobby. There's a phase where it requires about as many hours as your daytime job, but you still don't make enough to make it your sole source of income. At that point, things like email can queue up. Not ideal, certainly not for your customers, but understandable.

I sure hope you get help with your issue, I thoroughly enjoy my dual four pole!

It is a bit quirky though, and will probably always be. I listened to a pod cast where Mark talke