MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index
 FAQ & Terms of UseFAQ & Terms Of Use   Wiggler RadioMW Radio   Muff Wiggler TwitterTwitter   Support the site @ PatreonPatreon 
 SearchSearch   RegisterSign up   Log inLog in 
WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

156 dquant
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author 156 dquant
DrOctave
well i have had this thing for 2 weeks + getting my head around it. anyone have any cool patch styles with it or tricks? i have random triggers gates all that just hit me with ideas to try out thanks.
dougcl
you need to have attenuation and offset before going to the A-156. That will put your cv into a certain window so it doesn't just ramp rail to rail. This is a huge part of using the A-156 effectively.

One thing you can do is feed it cv and extract triggers. You get a trigger when the cv changes.

Another thing you can do is patch one changing CV to the top channel. Patch a second changing cv to the transpose. Now patch a constant cv to the second channel. Now take the channel 1 and channel 2 quantized values to two separate VCO's. Both VCOs should be in tune because VCO2 is essentially held constant and is picking up its pitch changes from the transpose cv.

If you are using a sequencer of S&H, you have regular triggers to open EGs. Try using the A-156 triggers instead. Mix and match. (one VCO on the regular triggers, one VCO on the A-156 triggers). Mixes things up a little bit.

Note there is a jumper that makes both channels obey the front panel scale settings. By default the top one is just semitones.
coomby
Quote:
you need to have attenuation and offset before going to the A-156. That will put your cv into a certain window so it doesn't just ramp rail to rail. This is a huge part of using the A-156 effectively.


i know you use the a129-3 (vocoder slew limiter/ attenuation-offset functions) a lot, but i still don't really understand how it affects the sound. i understand attenuation of course, but i don't really understand how offset affects sound and why that should be important with a a156.

have you got any precise examples in your videos ?
Blackened Justice
I can't really tell you how offset affects sound, but I can give you an idea of how it affects CV's, and thus how you can use it to enhance the A-156. Basically, DC offset will (when looking at your signal on an oscilloscope) shift the wave up and down, depending if the offset is positive or negative.
So, while attenuation will "shrink" the wave, and lower its amplitude allowing you to lower range of quantized values, offset will allow you to bring those values to the range you need.

Imagine, you want to quantize an LFO's signal to go through a C-scale, from the lower C to the higher C. You'd have to attenuate the signal so that instead of 10V peak to peak you have something like 1V peak to peak, and adjust the offset so that the notes fit within that specific octave instead of any other.
loudone
Guinness ftw!
I can't wait to recieve my pll and a156...hmm i wonder were that idea came from...dougcl.... hmmm.....

This is very informative stuff for my beginner ass.
dougcl
coomby wrote:
Quote:
you need to have attenuation and offset before going to the A-156. That will put your cv into a certain window so it doesn't just ramp rail to rail. This is a huge part of using the A-156 effectively.


i know you use the a129-3 (vocoder slew limiter/ attenuation-offset functions) a lot, but i still don't really understand how it affects the sound. i understand attenuation of course, but i don't really understand how offset affects sound and why that should be important with a a156.

have you got any precise examples in your videos ?


Start with a S&H, sampling an audio signal. Its output will be either negative or positive, and at full scale peak to peak. If you send this to the A-156 directly, half the samples will come out as the same low note, because the A-156 only operates on positive signals. The rest of the samples are the full scale of the quantizer and all over the map. So if you attenuate the S&H output to 50% you don't have samples over as wide a range, but you still have this problem: half the notes are negative, and will result in the same low note. Apply an offset to the S&H output and it shifts the signal into the range the A-156 uses. Because you attenuated 50%, and then shifted positive, once again you are all over the map, but at least you aren't hitting the bottom of the A-156 every other note.

So attenuation merely squashes the signal, which is good, but offset shifts it into a range you want. With both, you could, for example, focus all the S&H output into a couple of high notes in the quantizer. Almost all of the vids I have posted use this technique. Many of the videos use a couple of the LFOs on an A-143-3 to a S&H as the sequencer source.

As an aside, I am somewhat dismayed that the 200e does not support this simple technique for cv generation.
DrOctave
damm i have no 129-3
dougcl
DrOctave wrote:
damm i have no 129-3


Alternatives:

Doepfer A-138c
PlanB M14
Doepfer A-183-2

Probably others.

I've noticed with the A-129/3 it can be a little slewey. Multing the original S&H (or sequencer) trigger to the trigger input on the A-156 cleans it up nicely though. The A-129/3 is also a great companion to the A-152 as it provides five sources for the switched I/O section. Shawn recommended the A-129/3 to me a long time ago, and I thought it sucked to spend money on something so mundane, but it quickly moved to the center of the rack and hasn't budged since.
frozenkore
There is also the: A-183-2 Offset-Generator/Attenuator/Polarizer. I don't know if it is available yet, but it's suppose to be ~40 Euros and it might work for you. It doesn't have slew, and that brings me to ask a question.

Based on my basic understanding of the patch:

A-sound-source -> A-129-3 -> S/H -> A-156 = controlled sound within the desired range (provided you have your attenuation and offset correct). Am I right in saying that the slew option in the A-129-3 does not really do anything for you? I would imagine that you would maybe get a slight difference but I not sure how much. I'm looking at doing something similar and I like the A-183-2 approach due to its slim figure. So does the slew really do much for you in this case?

A-sound-source -> A-183-2 -> S/H -> A-156
dougcl
frozenkore wrote:
There is also the: A-183-2 Offset-Generator/Attenuator/Polarizer. I don't know if it is available yet, but it's suppose to be ~40 Euros and it might work for you. It doesn't have slew, and that brings me to ask a question.

Based on my basic understanding of the patch:

A-sound-source -> A-129-3 -> S/H -> A-156 = controlled sound within the desired range (provided you have your attenuation and offset correct). Am I right in saying that the slew option in the A-129-3 does not really do anything for you? I would imagine that you would maybe get a slight difference but I not sure how much. I'm looking at doing something similar and I like the A-183-2 approach due to its slim figure. So does the slew really do much for you in this case?

A-sound-source -> A-183-2 -> S/H -> A-156


The slew does nothing, and in fact the input can only be fed from a particular vocoder module. The only effect is it seems to have a sometimes noticeable rounded edge on note changes. Using the trigger input on the A-156 completely resolves it.
dude
could cv>attenuator> polarizing mixer>quatizer get the effect of the 'offset' into quantizer? sorry if that is unclear.
dougcl
dude wrote:
could cv>attenuator> polarizing mixer>quatizer get the effect of the 'offset' into quantizer? sorry if that is unclear.



If you have a polarizing mixer handy, you can leave out the attenuator, because the full right half of each polarizing knob on the mixer is the same as an attenuator. To get the offset, you need to feed a constant DC signal to one of the polarizing mixer channels and mix it with your attenuated cv.

The first channel of the A-138c is normalled to 10V for this purpose.

Or you could use a joystick for the offset source smile

In mathematical terms:

output = attenuation * input + offset

So another way of answering your question is to say you can't get addition using multiplication. Two separate things.
dude
to be further clear: with a joystick capable of fixed voltage plus a polarizing mixer, one could get the effect of getting the 'right window' voltage into the quantizer?

very frustrating

this is all conceptual for me as my polarizing mixer won't arrive till next week. but i want to be prepared with info like this!!!

thanks you guys.

doug you are such a badass! w00t
dougcl
Ha ha. Yes, you should be set. Run one ouptut of the joystick into one channel of the polarizing mixer, and run the cv (S&H, or whatever) into another channel of the polarizing mixer. Run the mixer output to the quantizer. Now you can shift the window up and down the scale with the joystick. Should be very playable.
dude
this is a pure powerâ„¢ thread
SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger!

MY ASS IS BLEEDING
itijik
Plan B model 14 will do the trick too, twice thumbs up

uh...(hides)
dougcl
itijik wrote:
Plan B model 14 will do the trick too, twice thumbs up

uh...(hides)


And you can crossfade between the banks. Awesome module for this type of thing. Very playable.
itijik
Yeah, it is a great module. My first and only plan b, unless used of course.

I absolutely hate how deep it is, though.
loudone
So will the 138e work to generate the correct offset? I don't quite understand offset....does it shift cv signals positive or negative? or only allow certain cv signals above a certain range? hmmm.....
Or am i totally off? confused
dougcl
loudone wrote:
So will the 138e work to generate the correct offset? I don't quite understand offset....does it shift cv signals positive or negative? or only allow certain cv signals above a certain range? hmmm.....
Or am i totally off? confused



Okay my head is spinning trying to sort out the A-138e. I think it will do it. Not sure.

Offset is a simple constant voltage that is added to the cv signal. So let's say your cv is a simple LFO sine wave -5V to 5V peak to peak. An offset of 1V would shift the sine wave up to be -4V to 6V peak to peak. An offset of 5V would shift the sine wave up to 0V to 10V peak to peak. Similarly, an offset of -5V would shift the sine wave down to be 0 to -10V peak to peak. An offset of zero volts would leave the cv unchanged. The typical range of an offset knob is -10V to 10V. Note the A-129/3 only does positive offset. Note offset is not capable of reducing the full swing of the sine wave, only shifting it.

An attenuator is a simple constant voltage that is multiplied by the cv signal. So let's say you have a simple LFO sine wave -5V to 5V peak to peak. An attenuation of 0.5V (one half) would squash the sine wave down to -2.5V to 2.5V peak to peak. An attenuation of 1V would leave the cv unchanged. An attenuation of zero volts would result in zero. The typical range for an attenuator is 0 to 1V. Or -1 to 1V (polarizing). Attenuation voltages larger than 1 are usually called GAIN because they amplify rather than attenuate. Note that attenuation is not capable of shifting the sine wave, only reducing its full swing.

So with both attenuation and offset you can shift (offset) a signal up and down the scale, and squash (attenuate) it.
dude
phew, gettin' through that. i'm on board i think. ideally we could all sit around with our modulars and use clear patch examples instead of the sometimes failing english language. simple yet confusing things like this can be such a bitch. regardless, i am super jazzed to get my cgs 5x5 polarizing mixer and throw in some choices and whatever other voltage!
DrOctave
Thank you everyone for all your input in this . looks like i will have to order a 129-3 to utalize this to full potential. I must say special thanks to dougcl like allways great help in explaining and holding my hand. really you are a great attribute to this forum for all the info you do know.
dougcl
Thanks for the clean bill of health Dr! I'm glad I can help.

And now for something completely the same. Two charts. The first shows a sine wave, +5V to -5V peak to peak. The second shows the same sine wave attenuated by 0.2 and offset by 4.




dude
no doubt on the cheers to doug! not only is he a badass with dropping bombs of knowledge on our sorry uneducated minds but he also wrote rack planner which i use daily and it is the single most useful (albeit one of the few hihi ) modular related software which has helped my addiction along heartily! and he is a super nice guy and even supports local music.

i vote doug for....modular presodnetz

This is fun!
oops
REwire
DrOctave wrote:
looks like i will have to order a 129-3 to utalize this to full potential.


I'd wait for the A-183-2. It's 4hp and one channel of the 129-3 (which is 16hp) and adds ability to go positive or negative on the offset. I had the A-129-3 for a while and was frustrated in that limitation. the 183 will let you dial in any specific range you choose.

I plan on having three of the A-183-2 in places I need it like next to the Wogglebug, near Model 15 PWM and my Cwejman Mixer which lacks CV controls.
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Page 1 of 2
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group