TKB pain

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thiagozt
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TKB pain

Post by thiagozt » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:16 pm

I would love to get my hands on a TKB but I can't bring myself to spend 3k on it. I've been trying for a month, but that money could go towards so much cool stuff, like a criklon, an analog four ( well, almost 3 analog fours), a shitload of eurorack, a trip to Europe ( including France, Germany, Russia and a couple more eastern european countries), an Easel downpayment... the list is endless.

I know there's a new DIY TKB thread and everything but that's a long wait and I don't have the time to build anything right now.

I guess my point is it's really hard to justify 3k on a sequecer like a TKB, no matter how awesome it is, we're not in the 70's anymore, there's a lot of cool stuff out there to throw my money at.

I will just stare at the empty space on my m-case for now. Thanks for reading/listening to me complaining.



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Post by djs » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:32 pm

not a tkb, but you could probably get a built cgs swamp panel from someone on this forum for less than half of the cost of a TKB?
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Post by confusional » Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:54 pm

Dude, just get an Analog 4 or whatever. Or something like an OP-1 + OPLab. The TKB is only for freaks like me.

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Post by MindMachine » Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:10 pm

Get a rack of euro with four Makenoise Pressure points and the Brains module with a closk module like ProModular Cloq. Or just get one to see if you like it first. I have not tried them but they seem to have pretty good control. It is not the same thing, but gets you 1/3 to 1/2 the way there for 1/2 the cost.
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Post by consumed » Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:15 pm

ill bet you could get the DIY tkb built by one of the DIY badasses here for a substantial savings.

:twisted:

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Post by shady smiles » Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:34 pm

MindMachine wrote:Get a rack of euro with four Makenoise Pressure points and the Brains module with a closk module like ProModular Cloq. Or just get one to see if you like it first. I have not tried them but they seem to have pretty good control. It is not the same thing, but gets you 1/3 to 1/2 the way there for 1/2 the cost.
Sounds good on paper but in my experience there's just no holding a candle to the real deal. The TKB is a strange and mysterious thing. Is it the best sequencer out there? Who cares? Is it a sequencer for the 00s? Who cares? It is truly it's own thing. If you think you want it, you do. Scratch the itch. I bet you'll be happy you did.

PS: regarding PP and control, I love the Pressure Points and Brains is a great dance partner but for tonal stuff the fiddliness of the knobs just drove me crazy. The pressure out might be a bit more tameable than, at least my TKB, but either way you probably want to follow it with slew. Cool that the PP has pressure outs for each stage though. But, fuck, no vertical clock! And the STS TKB is built like a tank.

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Post by MindMachine » Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:35 am

Like I said - it would only get them a part of the function. The TKB is a complete super deep controller.

Have you ever calibrated yours? I know I need to adjust my Pressure a little and get it to trigger easier with lighter touch.

I played one that ended up in Amnesias hands in AUS. When it was at Analog Haven/Noisebug I went through and compared it to my newer and older modules. The one thing that blew me away was how much more expressive the touch pads were on that old unit. The pads were different with a thicker softer material on them. Made me want a TKB even more. I eventually scored one. About a year ago I got it into my cruddy custom cse and relaized I forgot to open it up and try to adjust the pads. I hope it is easy.

The TKB is a box of possibilities. I am no expert on it, so it is hard to recommend a $3,000 controller box to someone.

edit - sorry for pseudo hijack. If the OP was nearby I would entertain a TKB session
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Post by aethersprite » Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:18 am

I don't believe the TKB would be much fun with just an Animal. I think 2 m-class panels would be a better choice.

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Post by thiagozt » Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:22 am

I had a PP + brains in a the same case as the Animal for a while, they talk really well to each other but all the conversion between the formats didn't work as well as I hoped. The 1/8" to banana cables I got from STS would suddenly disconnect from the PP's outputs, it felt clunky. There's something about Serge and those bananas, it's so ergonomic, that throwing eurorack in the middle of it kind of breaks the flow. I know I sound like a diva saying this, but if you tried it, you would know what I mean. Serge is ergonomically clean and functional, eurorack is sometimes fiddly and it felt "small". Don't get me wrong, I have an erurorack case I love but I feel like they should be kep separate.

I tried the CGS route, the build process was a mess, the builder took almost a year instead of a few months, when I received it, it didn't work properly etc... and the boat is 3" not 2'5, which means it doesn't fit into the m-case. I also like the TKB layout better than the SWAMP.

I guess I will wait for a TKB to show up at some point, for a decent price.
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Post by dogoftears » Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:41 am

thiagozt wrote:I had a PP + brains in a the same case as the Animal for a while, they talk really well to each other but all the conversion between the formats didn't work as well as I hoped. The 1/8" to banana cables I got from STS would suddenly disconnect from the PP's outputs, it felt clunky. There's something about Serge and those bananas, it's so ergonomic, that throwing eurorack in the middle of it kind of breaks the flow. I know I sound like a diva saying this, but if you tried it, you would know what I mean. Serge is ergonomically clean and functional, eurorack is sometimes fiddly and it felt "small". Don't get me wrong, I have an erurorack case I love but I feel like they should be kep separate.

I tried the CGS route, the build process was a mess, the builder took almost a year instead of a few months, when I received it, it didn't work properly etc... and the boat is 3" not 2'5, which means it doesn't fit into the m-case. I also like the TKB layout better than the SWAMP.

I guess I will wait for a TKB to show up at some point, for a decent price.
see also: arch angel. each channel is individually clockable making it even more powerful than a TKB imo. form factor is very similar to serge. i think they can be special ordered with banana jacks as well.
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Post by noobyscooby » Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:49 am

For me, the TKB just had too many steps for my liking. At a fraction of the price, but it will mean starting a bugbrand/frac system, the bugbrand ctl1 is all the touch sensitive sequencer i need. That i bought mine used for a fraction of the new price also helped.
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Post by legionhwp » Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:51 am

Last few "good price" ones on here were around $2500 fwiw.

The DIY kit one looks to be a relatively easy build. The cables eliminate hours (days?) of wiring and it's basically only one medium size PCB. Panel and PCBs are under $500. Parts might be a few more hundred but no matter how you slice it (even with a power supply and case) it's still under $1k. If it actually works and does what a TKB does then that is your only answer.

I'm sure new STS ones will remain at their prices or continue to rise and as a result used prices won't drop that much. If you're set for waiting you might as well research a good DIY guy with references and do the kit. You might even get it for around the same delivery time at 1/2 - 1/3 the price.

I had a TKB and loved it. I traded it toward my Buchla stuff and have missed it but not $2000+ missed it (let alone $3k). I can't wait for the DIY kit as that will be almost exactly what I personally feel oneis worth to me. Win freakin' win.
thiagozt wrote: I guess I will wait for a TKB to show up at some point, for a decent price.
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Post by thiagozt » Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:57 am

I am not clear on the TKB kit wait time legionhwp, is it just a few weeks? The build time for a tkb from STS is 3 weeks right now.
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Post by legionhwp » Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:08 am

Kits aren't even announced FS yet. I have no idea how long STS wait times are now. Only you can decide if that's worth an extra $1-2k.

I would guess kits will be available and built before you're done waiting to buy a used one at "a decent price." which, as current prices indicate, would still be $1000 or more higher even adding pro builder costs.

STS builds great things IMO and he has no problem getting buyers so I don't blame him at all for his prices. I have been looking for a sub $2k TKB for years (I bought one 10+ years ago for $1200 cash). The kit is the only option (assuming it happens) as far as I'm concerned. In the meantime I kind of like my 2x PP and Brainz in custom case. But no, it's not a TKB.


thiagozt wrote:I am not clear on the TKB kit wait time legionhwp, is it just a few weeks? The build time for a tkb from STS is 3 weeks right now.
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Post by nordlead » Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:11 am

I find myself in a similar spot - since zthee announced the TKB kit I'm fighting to resist the urge. :hmm:

However, I never had a TKB but I do have an STS sequencer panel which I like a lot, so I guess I would mostly gain the Touch Keyboard (don't think I need more than the 8 steps I have) or am I missing something here? Where/what exactly is that TKB magic ...?
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Post by deltaphoenix » Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:02 am

I currently use an Elektron Analog Four, I got it used for cheap, cheaper than any other option that has as much functionality.
BUT, I am definitely getting onboard for the TKB Kit. If the TKB kit doesn't happen for some reason (please DO happen) then I will be looking at an STG ArchAngel.

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Post by legionhwp » Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:55 am

The touch keyboard is cool as an interactive triggering device. You can start or manually "loop" the sequence by interacting with it as well as immediately go to any step and output the knob value (and don't forget that's x4 since there are A-D stages)

So it can be a stored CV unit, 4x 16 stage individual sequencers, an organic alternate controller, and more. It's got some depth in CV modulation) reset, reverse, etc) but also can be quite simple and powerful. I'd consider the TKB a "more than the sum of it's parts" unit based on it's design and UI. it is just very Inspiring IMO.
nordlead wrote: am I missing something here? Where/what exactly is that TKB magic ...?
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Post by oldenjon » Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:40 pm

deltaphoenix wrote:If the TKB kit doesn't happen for some reason (please DO happen)
It'll happen, don't worry :tu:
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Post by sascha.victoria » Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:27 pm

Pressure on the TKB is really bad. Not an expressive experience.

I lusted for the TKB for years. I find 16 steps to be way too many. I think for the money and my needs a Sequencer panel is much more interesting. With the Sequencer you get similar functions but 2 sequences, the option of different sequence lengths , etc...
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Post by sascha.victoria » Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:28 pm

While not in the Serge format and not quite available the Archangel is much more interesting then the TKB.
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Post by richard » Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:36 pm

sascha.victoria wrote:Pressure on the TKB is really bad. Not an expressive experience.

I lusted for the TKB for years. I find 16 steps to be way too many. I think for the money and my needs a Sequencer panel is much more interesting. With the Sequencer you get similar functions but 2 sequences, the option of different sequence lengths , etc...
Thank you. I agree with every part of that. The TKB is way overrated and archaic. You can bet that half these guys buying the kits will be disappointed and selling it at a loss within the year. That will be when I'll make my move :party: Its worth $900, because it is fun, but not more.
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Post by MindMachine » Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:28 pm

thiagozt wrote:I had a PP + brains in a the same case as the Animal for a while, they talk really well to each other but all the conversion between the formats didn't work as well as I hoped. The 1/8" to banana cables I got from STS would suddenly disconnect from the PP's outputs, it felt clunky. There's something about Serge and those bananas, it's so ergonomic, that throwing eurorack in the middle of it kind of breaks the flow. I know I sound like a diva saying this, but if you tried it, you would know what I mean. Serge is ergonomically clean and functional, eurorack is sometimes fiddly and it felt "small". Don't get me wrong, I have an erurorack case I love but I feel like they should be kep separate.

I tried the CGS route, the build process was a mess, the builder took almost a year instead of a few months, when I received it, it didn't work properly etc... and the boat is 3" not 2'5, which means it doesn't fit into the m-case. I also like the TKB layout better than the SWAMP.

I guess I will wait for a TKB to show up at some point, for a decent price.
Got it. Did not know that you tried the PP and Brains route. I only use the Serge in the studio, so cross patching does not bother me.

noobyscooby had a good suggestion then - Bugbrand.
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Post by confusional » Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:58 am

sascha.victoria wrote:Pressure on the TKB is really bad. Not an expressive experience.

I lusted for the TKB for years. I find 16 steps to be way too many. I think for the money and my needs a Sequencer panel is much more interesting. With the Sequencer you get similar functions but 2 sequences, the option of different sequence lengths , etc...
I feel ya. When I first had a TKB, I didn't fully appreciate it. It seemed kinda limited. But then Benny showed me how to create interleaved pulse trains on the TKB, so I could have multiple concurrent shorter sequences running on it. I don't think it was designed to behave in that way, but it totally worked.* After talking with Rex, he explained how to adjust the pressure setting on the TKB (which is pretty darn easy to do), and it became so much more expressive. Almost too expressive! So just when I thought I understood the abilities and limitations of the TKB, it continued to offer more fun. The lesson learned is that of course it's not magical, but I know I'd only begun to scrape the surface of what it can do.

Back to the present day. Now that I've re-up'd and am back in the land of the Serge, all I have is one panel, the Animoo. The most in the least amount of space. Lucky me. Sometimes, for the same reasons others prefer the Sequencer, I think I'll go for that rather than a TKB for the next panel. But for the not so obvious reasons I just mentioned, I'm pretty certain the TKB will win the day.

* from the images revealed of the forthcoming TKB clone (sorry Richard, huff and puff all you want buddy, but it's a clone), it doesn't look like the insides of a contemporary TKB as made by STS. Not a big deal, and who knows, maybe it'll even be an improvement, unless it can't do those lovely undocumented things that the current TKB can do.

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Post by confusional » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:04 am

richard wrote:The TKB is way overrated and archaic.
Terms like overrated and archaic, which face it, could be applied to the Serge Modular as a whole, give me a warm, tingly feeling. Such stuff is irresistible to the likes of me! :love: :hail:

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Post by thiagozt » Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:19 pm

I have a feeling STS already lowered the price of the TKB. There's a thread somewhere saying they got a quote for the TKB and the price was way over 3k. I think they might have pulled back because of the Easel. Rex actually mentioned the Easel to me, so he's aware of it. Don't get me wrong, I think Rex is great, I love calling him and hearing his random thoughts on a lot of random subjects, and I like he takes the time to explain the modules thoroughly ( whenever I have a question about my animal and he answers it and always teaches me something I didn't know), and I think they should charge whatever it takes from their modules to be built in the US, by super experienced people. The problem is I am not rich and competitive capitalism has been great to musical instruments :omg:
Maybe with this new kit becoming available he will lower it even more, but I don't want to wait.
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