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Casio FZ1 filter in Euro. Its about time. AUDIO EXAMPLES
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Author Casio FZ1 filter in Euro. Its about time. AUDIO EXAMPLES
amnesia
Audio examples further down the thread. This filter is as fuqed up as the MS20 filter :-)

Love the sound of early Aphex?

We need the FZ1 filter in euro.
Come on euro manufacturers jump to it :-)
LoFi Junglist
amnesia wrote:
Love the sound of early Aphex?


No you are wrong. The NJM1700 ic is what gives Aphex his unique sound. Blue Lantern ses so hihi
husc
The FZ-1 is something else, been trying to buy one and a RZ-1 for over a decade, but I ended up with a RZ-1 sample library and a dozen cheap casio keyboards.
I recorded loads with the little Casios, and circuit bended a couple. Today I consider myself a Casio devotee, perfect little keyboards, fun take-me-back-to-my-childhood sounds that become a mature monster when you run 'm through a pedalboard, a sampler or whatever.
noisetheorem
It is definitely something else to LIFT. I broke a toe dropping one on my foot about 18 years ago.

They sounded ok.
continuum
Here's the patent: http://www.buchty.net/casio/pat4467440.pdf

Its a standard 2 pole digital IIR filter. How well it is implemented in that Casio IC would need to be measured for distortion etc. Maybe try the Bat filter card for the ZDSP and clip the converters...
Crandall1
We could put this on our small platform really easily, if it was something people actually wanted. Even if there were as few as 10 takers, I could justify getting a panel made. It would cost a touch more than our normal $179-ish, simply because it costs more to get a short run of panels.

So, if you're actually serious about wanting the FZ-1 digital filter, DM me and let me know. I get enough to do it, I'll post here to that fact and knock it out.
Bobby
haven't used a FZ1 in years but i do remember it being nice, id be interested.
robbert
any actual demos of the filter sound anywhere on soundcloud online?
ben_hex
+1 on some demos. I don't know the sound.
Crandall1
For what it's worth, that platform can handle nearly any digital filter. So if there's another digital one out there that people must have, and we have some sort of starting point, we can put most any on it. But I need 10 people committed to do it.
husc
I can't find clear and specific filter demos anywhere, but ran into this:



Now I really sold! applause
amnesia
This track by LFO is all FZ1 filter. The distortion is part of the sound. Lovely sound!It really is up there with the MS20 filter.

i would be interested.


also this track


and here
ben_hex
If the audio damage platform is open to any digital filter some really surgical 48db slopes could be cool.
jnlkrt
Crandall1 wrote:
For what it's worth, that platform can handle nearly any digital filter. So if there's another digital one out there that people must have, and we have some sort of starting point, we can put most any on it. But I need 10 people committed to do it.


i think there might be a bunch of people who would be up for the Emu "Z-Plane" filter.
phasebash
jnlkrt wrote:
Crandall1 wrote:
For what it's worth, that platform can handle nearly any digital filter. So if there's another digital one out there that people must have, and we have some sort of starting point, we can put most any on it. But I need 10 people committed to do it.


i think there might be a bunch of people who would be up for the Emu "Z-Plane" filter.


I certainly would. These filters on the E4XT were always my favorite, particularly the parametrics.
thetwlo
This could be great, but perhaps something like 8 classic digital filters in one module would make more sense--if that's easy.
I assume the E-mu z-plane is too complicated but would justify its' own module.
I would love one or two if they had a few classic digital filters, like the FZ, Emax-II, not sure what else. hmmmm???

Didn't try the Bat filter Z-DSP card so not how that compares, or the Bionic Lester.
skrasms
Listening to the audio examples and reading that patent posted earlier, the two don’t match up. The sounds aren’t simply coming from the filter in that patent given that it’s practically a textbook linear digital filter implementation (compare the patent filter diagrams with “Direct Form II” on the Wikipedia digital filter page). The patent filter might be part of the circuit, but it doesn’t account for all the distortion that’s creating the character. I also couldn’t find anything linking the patent to the FZ-1 filter chips. What associates that patent with the FZ-1 other than just being from around the same time? I imagine Casio was getting a lot of signal processing patents back then that weren’t related to the FZ-1.

I dug around a bit, and the audio/patent mismatch makes more sense now. The FZ-1 used filter chips with analog audio I/O. That already means they’re not just simple digital filters. They have a digital control interface, so they could either be:
1) Digitally controlled analog filters
2) A/D conversion, followed by a digital filter, followed by D/A conversion (all in one chip)

The second option sounds a lot more expensive than the first to implement, and we’re talking about Casio, so the first seems far more likely. The SID chip in the Commodore 64 also took the approach of using a digitally controlled analog filter, so it’s not unheard of for the era.

It would be fun to make an emulation of it, but there doesn’t seem to be enough public information available to do anything other than guess what was going on inside the filter chips. I hope someone can prove me wrong on that, because it does have a great sound.
ben_hex
Not heard the E-mu filter either, examples?
exper
skrasms wrote:
Listening to the audio examples and reading that patent posted earlier, the two don’t match up. The sounds aren’t simply coming from the filter in that patent given that it’s practically a textbook linear digital filter implementation (compare the patent filter diagrams with “Direct Form II” on the Wikipedia digital filter page). The patent filter might be part of the circuit, but it doesn’t account for all the distortion that’s creating the character. I also couldn’t find anything linking the patent to the FZ-1 filter chips. What associates that patent with the FZ-1 other than just being from around the same time? I imagine Casio was getting a lot of signal processing patents back then that weren’t related to the FZ-1.

I dug around a bit, and the audio/patent mismatch makes more sense now. The FZ-1 used filter chips with analog audio I/O. That already means they’re not just simple digital filters. They have a digital control interface, so they could either be:
1) Digitally controlled analog filters
2) A/D conversion, followed by a digital filter, followed by D/A conversion (all in one chip)

The second option sounds a lot more expensive than the first to implement, and we’re talking about Casio, so the first seems far more likely. The SID chip in the Commodore 64 also took the approach of using a digitally controlled analog filter, so it’s not unheard of for the era.

It would be fun to make an emulation of it, but there doesn’t seem to be enough public information available to do anything other than guess what was going on inside the filter chips. I hope someone can prove me wrong on that, because it does have a great sound.


You're probably right. From the wiki page, it says the filtering and amp are analog and carried out after the da stage. -

Quote:
The FZ-1 (unlike Casio's other professional equipment) had a resonant low-pass filter. This filter was a hybrid design, with the same characteristics as an analogue filter and it was one of the FZ series' best features, allowing for dramatic, creative alteration of sounds, in a way not possible on any Akai (Casio's chief competitor) machine until the S3000. The FZ-1 also had an analog amplifier. The filtering and level control were carried out by four Casio MB87186 chips, each of which contain two filters and digitally controlled amplifiers. Some people assume the filters are purely digital, but this is not the case. Close examination of the schematic shows that the filtering is carried out after the digital to analogue conversion and demultiplexing. Both the filter and the amplifier used the same 8-stage envelopes of the Casio CZ synthesizers but had the ability to make sections of the envelope loop. The envelopes on the FZ-1 were also less cryptic to program than those on the CZ synthesizers, because the envelope shape could be adjusted on the LCD display, rather than by text entry alone.
Crandall1
Yeah, that would rule this out. I just glanced at the patent, and saw it was pretty standard, before I made my comment. Obviously, one could emulate this in general, but not specifically.

-CR
jonne74
I have a bunch of old recordings on my Akai DPS12 done with mainly an FZ-1 and a K2000R, about 15 years ago. I don't remember it distorting easily, but it sounds great. Almost like a bandpass filter at certain resonance settings.
chrisdurftal
a few filter sweeps with an fz-synthesized saw wave:

http://vocaroo.com/i/s139TBAtASF9
renasent
I've always wondered what was the synth LFO used for that sound.

I would buy that filter at the drop of a hat.

Yep, Z-Plane filters were amazing too.
303ish
Im dreaming about building a diy FZ-1 filter module, and just started a topic in the diy section: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2035837#2035837

If anyone has any tips or wants to share some expertise with the MB87186 or about interfacing old chips, will be very welcome!

A really nice demo of the FZ-1 sound:

[s]https://soundcloud.com/mikep/purple-crumble[/s]
Dcramer
I still have an FZ-1 and I don't remember the filter as being very special.
Z plane filter would be cool though w00t
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