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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Post Lawsuit Filter
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> STG Soundlabs Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author Post Lawsuit Filter
doctorvague
When I first got this filter a few months ago I liked it. Now the more I use it I find it's becoming a go-to filter. My go-to's used to be the MOTM 440 and Arrick's SVF (I still dig them of course). The P/L seems to fit musically for the stuff I do. It's not too farty, not too nasal, not too precise/clinical - it's just right. I used it as the main filter in my last couple of video posts with just one Modcan VCDO as sound source. YMMV, but I think that combo sounds fucking great. The VCDO with all it's harmonics really gives a filter something to do.

Once I have my Wavefolder I'll probably save for the Mankato next. Too many raves about that one to ignore it!! I normally never use filters as oscillators myself, so I'll have to form some new habits and that's a good thing.

Can anyone comment on the sound/response of the Sea Devils filter vs the P/L? Or just general comments about it.

Thanks STG (and Yves, etc) for bringing this stuff to MU format.

Cheers
Phil
Mr White
same for euro dude!
but we are waiting for the sea devil so fucking bad....
bwhittington
I love the Sea Devils filter, but when I went got the Post Lawsuit one, it kind of felt like the limp cousin of the SDF to me. I almost did a video comparing the two, which really would have been a handy video to have around. I couldn't find any straight demo of the PLF.

Its character is certainly unique from the SPF. I'm not going to do well decribing it in terms of nasal vs. belchy or whatever. Maybe it felt much more restrained to me, in comparison to the SDF. I liked what felt like a bright, cheery tone to its resonance, compared to the SPF which can really start to squeal. I think of my two Q107's as my go-to filters and the SPF and Q150 as a good bit of fun/personality. The PLF never really found its niche in my usage. When I wanted to scrounge a few bucks for another purchase, it lost out, despite my interest in the single-width design to increase my system's density.

Random digression: In the middle of setting up that demo, I had the ingenious idea that it would be really convenient to have switches on my Q112 for an a/b demo, so I pulled the module and started replacing the pots with push/pull switch ones. Alas, months later that Q112 is still glaring at me disassembled from my bookshelf. I actually bought another one to replace it rather than bother finishing it. very frustrating

Slightly more relevant digression: I probably would have lived with the two together for a while longer, but the one design issue that really irked me is the different layout of the jacks on the bottom. I had memorized the layout of the SPF and kept screwing up when I patched one or the other of the very similar looking filters. Kind of the MOTM-grid gripe.

Losing out as filter number 5 in a small system when I wanted the money (and it happened to have the highest resale value) isn't exactly a damning review, but on the other hand, I've never really missed it. I'd be inclined to pick one up again, aside for the physical issue. The filter is now a part of Scott's ceiling-height system, and he said he loves it.

The SPF is has a unique sound, with definitely more bite than the PLF or Q107, and is worth considering. A link to my demo video which consists solely of Q106's and manipulations of the SPF is below. I'm not going to embed it because that's been done here a couple times already. You may well have seen it already, as it was posted as an example in our soft sync discussion some time ago as well. Entirely too much airtime for my feeble tinkering, but I think it does demonstrate the SPF fairly well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuQRMjsfR9o

Cheers,
Brian
suitandtieguy
on one hand, i find the filters to have completely different characters and applications, and on the other i find they are both lowpass filters capable of deleting high end from your sound.

i realise that may sound ridiculous, but srsly: i find that compared to the MOTM-490 which sits next to it, the P-L/LPF fills the same role without sounding exactly the same. the Mankato, for example, is completely useless in the same roles, however it brings its own very special tonality to the table. IMHO the most interesting Mankato output is the 6dB slope ... very unusual and unlike anything else i've ever heard in subtractiveland.

the Sea Devils Filter ... well now on one hand it has that "EMS sound" to it, but i've tweaked it out enough as far as gain-staging and whatnot for 10vP-P signals and the maximum detail of regeneration range that i'm not sure if it's anything like the VCS3 filter. i can tell you right off the bat it doesn't have the negative slew the VCS3 filter does. that element was included by the gracious Yves Usson but i deleted it, because the sounds i heard on the soundtrack to The Sea Devils (the Doctor Who story with music made entirely with a Synthi 100) were obviously made with a filter that could respond at audio-rate, and therefore didn't have that slew factor.

eh ... i had intended that to sound more ambivalent but it just sounds like a stroke job. i didn't build these filters into Moog format because i thought they were better, i thought they just needed to be available.

this discussion of filter characteristics in MUmu Land is very interesting to me. thanks for bringing it up. i've got one, _maybe_ two more filters to lay down in this market and i'm SO DONE with filters at that point. time for some other modules from Chillicothe ... once MOTM is added into scope General 5U has more quality filters than any other format at this point.
suitandtieguy
bwhittington wrote:
Slightly more relevant digression: I probably would have lived with the two together for a while longer, but the one design issue that really irked me is the different layout of the jacks on the bottom.


your observation is understood, but considering the I/O differences, i didn't have a choice.

also, if you put them side-by-side you'll notice their holes are not exactly in the same place.

bwhittington wrote:
(and it happened to have the highest resale value)


IMHO that's a very factual and positive compliment. if it's not possible to justify keeping it, selling it because it has held its value is praise in and of itself.
Hi5
Any hopes for a euro sea devil?
Maybe just a pcb even if its not too big?
bwhittington
suitandtieguy wrote:
i've got one, _maybe_ two more filters to lay down in this market and i'm SO DONE with filters at that point.


No hints?!? Come on, pleeeeeease! We won't tell a soul, I promise. hihi

Quote:
... once MOTM is added into scope General 5U has more quality filters than any other format at this point.


Particularly if you are meaning "MOTM-format." What's Bruce done, like 10 filters in ModcanB?

Cheers,
Brian
ach_gott
bwhittington wrote:

Quote:
... once MOTM is added into scope General 5U has more quality filters than any other format at this point.


Particularly if you are meaning "MOTM-format." What's Bruce done, like 10 filters in ModcanB?


Then add the Bridechamber offerings (even though you really have to DiY most of them) and Oakley Sound, etc.

I was wondering this morning whether the issue with Mankato MOTM-format sales weren't also related to this. I'm no gridlockee but I haven't bought the STG Manky because, well, I've impulse-bought too many filters over the years. And I'm building 2 JH filters to boot. (Also, I don't think to do my 1/4" modular impulse shopping at Analogue Haven...)

In any event, thanks for posting that comparison video!
doctorvague
Thanks STG, Brian and everybody. Good info.

I agree very much with you STG on your comparison with the 490 - well actually I had the Frac version. I dumped the dotcom Ladder to buy the Post/Lawsuit and am totally happy with that. The ladder to me just seemed a little too VANILLA!
hihi hihi razz hihi hihi hihi

But seriously I really like Arrick's SVF. If I had to pare it down to one, of what I have now, it would be that one as I'd miss that bandpass and highpass. I miss the bandpass of the Steiner filter I used to have (Doepfer). It had low output but you could get some serious rasp on with that thing. Rezzn8r's always sounds good in his videos although I don't know who made it or what version.

I definitely want the Seadevils filter.

@Brian - SPF?
Too much sunblock? 8_)

Mr. Green
bwhittington
doctorvague wrote:
I dumped the dotcom Ladder to buy the Post/Lawsuit and am totally happy with that. The ladder to me just seemed a little too VANILLA!


Really? It took my a while to warm up to the Q150, but I would have said it had serious balls compared to the Post-Lawsuit Filter. That comment makes me think I may be off the mark on this one.

doctorvague wrote:
But seriously I really like Arrick's SVF. If I had to pare it down to one, of what I have now, it would be that one . . .


I love the Q107, too. I shouldn't have a/b'ed it with the Modcan 10a, a similar multimode design which just has a bit more gain or something. Everything it touched felt like pure, silky golden love. (The 10a was just passing through. I had to nip the Modcan A format in the bud!) The Q107 was in the ballpark, particularly for being less than half the price, but it did seem just a tad vanilla in the comparison. [sigh]

doctorvague wrote:
@Brian - SPF?
Too much sunblock? 8_)


very frustrating Too much something, obviously! Acronym hell. Definitely put the SDF or SPF on your list. Either will be great buy. d'oh!

Cheers,
Brian
suitandtieguy
SPF:



SDF:

SynthBaron
doctorvague
bwhittington wrote:
doctorvague wrote:
I dumped the dotcom Ladder to buy the Post/Lawsuit and am totally happy with that. The ladder to me just seemed a little too VANILLA!


Really? It took my a while to warm up to the Q150, but I would have said it had serious balls compared to the Post-Lawsuit Filter. That comment makes me think I may be off the mark on this one.


That was all meant pretty tongue in cheek and my (possibly lame) attempt poking fun at the dotcom yahoo group and all the VANILLA posts lately. That place gets pretty silly sometimes IMO. The ladder filter is good, this was just a personal taste (and panel space) thing for me. I'd love to play around with the Oakley super ladder to see how it compares. Maybe I just don't like ladder filters all that much. I didn't care for the Frac MOTM (1490??) one at all, so I suspect it's just a personal taste thing. I'm really picky about filters and would compare it to choosing guitars - there are good-better-best, but mostly it comes down to personal choice and the right-tool-for-the-job. And how much space you have!

STG: have you thought about a Steiner filter for MU? I'd like to see that one with an output buffer to get the level back up to normal modular levels. The one I had (Doepfer) was low output, but I understood that was part of the design. It would only take one opamp stage to boost it back up, yes-no? Just some thoughts.
bwhittington
doctorvague wrote:

That was all meant pretty tongue in cheek and my (possibly lame) attempt poking fun at the dotcom yahoo group and all the VANILLA posts lately. That place gets pretty silly sometimes IMO.


Oh, don't worry, I would have to be plenty more dense than I already am to have missed the vanilla reference. hihi

I did assume the comparison you were making was real, though. I've never been drawn to the Q150. The way people raved about it, I didn't even want one. Hence, the second Q107. Now that I have started using it more, I'd have to say I like it a lot. Comparing it the PLF made me think my PLF must have been defective, but as I said, I might be kind of dense.

I try to remember all the really great advice and the nice deals on used modules I've gotten from that list when I scan the posts these days. Maybe I've just come out of a newbie period where I was soaking all that in and didn't pay attention to the rest. That little burst of "how can we convince the world the Dotcom isn't vanilla" posts that seemed to morph into "a Dotcom is even better than a Buchla!" posts was actually pretty humorous reading. But being in the presence of idiots makes me snide, which is something I try to avoid.

Cheers,
Brian
essex sound lab
bwhittington wrote:
That little burst of "how can we convince the world the Dotcom isn't vanilla" posts that seemed to morph into "a Dotcom is even better than a Buchla!"


Oh my.
ach_gott
suitandtieguy wrote:

SDF:



Ah childhood memories and how I wanted to put a no-pass filter on Minmei's mic.

Yes yes, Macross and SDF were 2 different series stitched together and blah blah blah but this America and we rock our interracial romance with Roy the Robotech way here.
bwhittington
ach_gott wrote:

Yes yes, Macross and SDF were 2 different series stitched together and blah blah blah but this America and we rock our interracial romance with Roy the Robotech way here.


I still remember the day my friend brought over a then much harder to obtain Japanese Macross video and we got to see Minmei in the shower.



Oh, to be 12 again . . . w00t
SynthBaron
If Dotcom isn't vanilla, then why do I have to get stuff from 7 different manufacturers to get what I want? And we're not really talking very exotic modules here, utility modules and filters for the most part. For example, Dotcom doesn't even offer a simple inverter function in a module.

If you're trying to emulate Keith Emerson, it's functionally complete system. I will concede that.
suitandtieguy
first let me point out how proud I am to have worked 2 SF media references into that product name there.

second, if you think you have a defective P-L/LPF email me. I did change the overall range of the cutoff knob about a year and a half or so ago, R33 is now 100K.
essex sound lab
SynthBaron wrote:
If Dotcom isn't vanilla, then why do I have to get stuff from 7 different manufacturers to get what I want?


I always thought Roger's philosophy, as expressed by the moderator of his Yahoo group, was to produce only the most mainstream of modules (do the basics, do them in a reliable cost-effective manner). "Vanilla" seems like a reasonable description.

Although a 960 is a pretty sophisticated piece of electronics, I'd imagine.
parasitk
Can we stop criticizing vanilla? Vanilla is delicious and expensive. love

Dead Banana
SynthBaron
essex sound lab wrote:

I always thought Roger's philosophy, as expressed by the moderator of his Yahoo group, was to produce only the most mainstream of modules (do the basics, do them in a reliable cost-effective manner)..


Yes, but realize that I waited for years on a "maybe" that something as simple as a VCADSR would be released: http://www.synthesizers.com/future.html

I understand that the majority of people don't understand the usefulness of certain modules, but at least take them off your website as enticement if you're never going to make them. Rant over.
essex sound lab
SynthBaron wrote:
essex sound lab wrote:

I always thought Roger's philosophy, as expressed by the moderator of his Yahoo group, was to produce only the most mainstream of modules (do the basics, do them in a reliable cost-effective manner)..


Yes, but realize that I waited for years on a "maybe" that something as simple as a VCADSR would be released: http://www.synthesizers.com/future.html

I understand that the majority of people don't understand the usefulness of certain modules, but at least take them off your website as enticement if you're never going to make them. Rant over.


I hear you. And there's been a long dry spell between new module releases. At least he's finally making a quantizer!

BTW, the Moon Modular VC EG is pretty sweet. thumbs up
essex sound lab
parasitk wrote:
Can we stop criticizing vanilla? Vanilla is delicious and expensive. love


Hey I quite like vanilla as a flavor. Particularly French vanilla!
bwhittington
SynthBaron wrote:
For example, Dotcom doesn't even offer a simple inverter function in a module.


Um, Q125 Signal Processor? I would have said that utility modules and sequencing were where Dotcom particularly shined. You'd be far more limited if you kept only to the MOTM range, I would think.

Anyway, the best place to argue that topic would be the Yahoo group. They dig that sort of thing over there.
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