MU-format ladder filter, recommendations?

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Ranxerox
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MU-format ladder filter, recommendations?

Post by Ranxerox » Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:54 am

What’s the best MU-format filter for your bog-standard Moog 4-pole transistor ladder sound? I know about the dotcom module, but are there any other recommendations?

I’m not interested in going MOTM or mixed-format, so I’m ruling out Synth-tech ones (sorry, paults!) . I know that for an extra 20 quid Krisp1 will supply an Oakley module with an MU-sized front-panel though, so Oakley suggestions are welcome.

I’m particularly interested in the STG Mankato, which has a 4-pole low-pass setting – does this get close to Moog territory?

Also, Schneidersbuero are carrying a multimode filter in MU from a German outfit called Marienburg – anyone have any experience with this manufacturer? Link:

http://schneidersbuero.com/index.php?se ... URO_BRUTTO

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suitandtieguy
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Post by suitandtieguy » Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:21 am

while i'm always happy to make a sale, i am going to dissuade you from buying the Mankato if you're looking for "Moog sound". it sounds nothing like a Moog filter. the Post-Lawsuit Lowpass Filter can work in the same applications, but it still doesn't sound "moogey". i would call the P-L/LPF a "dutiful surrogate", which isn't really a bad thing.

if you're curious about what i personally use for a "moog filter" right now, i have an MOTM-490 mounted in a P-L/LPF panel with the word "post" in the title Sharpied out. it's a great filter and despite the fact i used the parts list as only a rough guide (substitutions and "ballpark values" all over the place ... i wanted to get it done THAT NIGHT), it still sounds remarkably like a "moog filter" to me.

i know that Bruce Duncan is very proud of his Moog filter, according to him it's electrically the closest thing to the 904A currently available. you might want to check that one out if you're SRS BZNS about Moog filters.

the Synthesizers.com Q150 shouldn't be discounted either. while commonly praised for its affordability, it stood very strong ground in an A/B comparison with an original according to Synth Baron and Your Psychic Friend Mike Peake. maybe they can chime in.
http://suitandtieguy.com
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suboptimal wrote:... if it's music you want to make with your modular, STG should be in your system.

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Ranxerox
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Post by Ranxerox » Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:35 am

suitandtieguy wrote:while i'm always happy to make a sale, i am going to dissuade you from buying the Mankato if you're looking for "Moog sound". it sounds nothing like a Moog filter.
Thanks for that STG, as a module it's still of interest to me though due to it's seemingly Serge-like degree of flexibility.
suitandtieguy wrote:if you're curious about what i personally use for a "moog filter" right now, i have an MOTM-490 mounted in a P-L/LPF panel with the word "post" in the title Sharpied out.
LOL :yay:

Anyone have any votes for Oakley / COTK / Mos-lab ?

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Post by kindredlost » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:00 am

I can't give any reasonable advise on a filter other than the Q150 because I've never owned another Moog-alike Trans Ladder filter, but I would like to point out that there is a jumper internally that controls the level drop as the Res is tweaked. Playing with that jumper makes a noticable difference.

If I remember from the DotCom forum thread, the jumper is usually installed from the factory to smooth the level drop. Mine wasn't put on right when I got it so I had no idea until the discussion was raised. When I played with it I noticed a response difference that made it seem more like the sound I was searching for. It sounds silly but there was something about that jumper that allowed me to get the kind of sweeps for bass notes that I was looking for.

Oh, and I am very happy with the sound of the Q150.

For a couple of low resolution videos of it making the bass tone from the Tangerine Dream song "Invisible Limits"...




Sorry for the terrible sound recording. I had a new camera and was just trying to get a document of the various ways to pull off this particluar sequence with a Q960 sequencer. Not the best recording.

Just FYI.

-David

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Post by doctorvague » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:04 am

I can't really help with comparisons, although I did own Paul's Frac version- the 1490 for a while. I would go with the Q150. It's plenty Moog-y IMO, but I'm not a purist though.

Would love to hear comparisons with the Oakley but I'm not aware of any. It's probably rare for someone to own both I guess.

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Post by SynthBaron » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:47 am

The Q150 is fine, just disable the output leveling via jumper if you want the vintage Moog sound.

Otherwise in "Dotcom" format there are the 904a clones from Mos-lab and Club of the Knobs. The difference between the two are that the Mos-lab one is made with all discrete components like the original vs. the COTK one being made with THAT matched transistor pairs.

But really, the Q150 is just fine.

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Peake
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Post by Peake » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:20 pm

I already knew this thread would be posted.
This is not the place I'd imagined it to be.

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russma
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Post by russma » Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:24 am

I suppose we'll need to add the forthcoming Macbeth uber-module to this equation.

(Note to self: learn how to invoke umlauts.)

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Post by SynthBaron » Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:15 am

idiotboy wrote:I suppose we'll need to add the forthcoming Macbeth uber-module to this equation.
At (I'm guessing here) two grand, it's really not that good of an option, heh.

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Post by wyrtti » Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:45 pm

The Oakley Superladder is a great filter. I like it very much, especially as it has CV control of resonance.

I have not had a chance to test the other 5U ladder filters, but I have a Moog Voyager and a Moogerfooger MF-101 filter. The Superladder is of the same family soundwise, but also a distinct and different sound. It's resonance is more "squelchy" to my ears.

If you're going for a Moog 904A clone sound, then the Superladder would probably not be your first choice, at least as far as I can tell from listening to records with old Moog stuff and various sound files of the current crop of filter modules. But the Superladder is a great and versatile filter and it certainly has that transistor laddery sound, as I've become to understand it.

If you don't need an exact 904A copy and would like CV control of resonance, then it's a great choice. The sound is "fat and squelchy", at least to my ears.

Have fun deciding! :) (You'll probably enjoy whatever filter module you do decide to get...)
Eschew obfuscation!

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Henfield
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Post by Henfield » Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:01 pm

wyrtti wrote:The Oakley Superladder is a great filter. I like it very much, especially as it has CV control of resonance
But it is not available in the MU (Dotcom, Moog) format

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SynthBaron
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Post by SynthBaron » Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:03 pm

Henfield wrote:
wyrtti wrote:The Oakley Superladder is a great filter. I like it very much, especially as it has CV control of resonance
But it is not available in the MU (Dotcom, Moog) format
Krisp will build it into a custom Schaeffer panel if you want. I'm having a couple of modules done up that way.

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Henfield
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Post by Henfield » Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:13 pm

SynthBaron wrote:
Henfield wrote:
wyrtti wrote:The Oakley Superladder is a great filter. I like it very much, especially as it has CV control of resonance
But it is not available in the MU (Dotcom, Moog) format
Krisp will build it into a custom Schaeffer panel if you want. I'm having a couple of modules done up that way.
How deep is the module? Will it fit into a Dotcom Portable cabinet? That is the problem with many MOTM modules, they are over 5" in depth and will not fit into a space that all of the Dotcom modules will fit into.
Last edited by Henfield on Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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SynthBaron
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Post by SynthBaron » Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:17 pm

Hmm, it might just fit:

Image

Page says the PCB is 4 1/4 inches deep.

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MindMachine
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Post by MindMachine » Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:04 am

Synthbaron - do you have any links to Moogy sounding examples of the Q150? The samples that I have heard of the MOS-LAB (and even COTK) sound pretty Tangerine Dreamy but the Q150... not so much. Thanks.

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Post by SynthBaron » Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:33 am

MindMachine wrote:Synthbaron - do you have any links to Moogy sounding examples of the Q150? The samples that I have heard of the MOS-LAB (and even COTK) sound pretty Tangerine Dreamy but the Q150... not so much. Thanks.
[video][/video]

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Post by krisp14u » Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:06 am

SynthBaron wrote:
Henfield wrote:
wyrtti wrote:The Oakley Superladder is a great filter. I like it very much, especially as it has CV control of resonance
But it is not available in the MU (Dotcom, Moog) format
Krisp will build it into a custom Schaeffer panel if you want. I'm having a couple of modules done up that way.
I'm working on that panel Mr. SynthBaron 8_)

The one unit Superladder will hopefully be one of the first Oakley Sound modules to make it over to the MU format :mrgreen:

We have been in talks to get the panels done now I just need to save up some money panel runs aren't cheep :roll:

The Dotcom power inlet is on the Superladder pcb and is being added to all new 5U boards as they are replaced both for me and the DIY guys ( Thanks Tony) :hail:

What is the maximum depth of the Dotcom Portable cabinet ?
Cheers :guinness:

Paul
www.krisp1.com/store/
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sandyb

Post by sandyb » Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:47 am

krisp14u wrote:...
What is the maximum depth of the Dotcom Portable cabinet ?
from the dotcom site:

portable cabinet dimensions:
25"w x 7"d x 20"h
5.25" available behind the panel.

sandy

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Post by worker8 » Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:07 am

MU format but 12V :

[video][/video]
[video][/video]

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Post by BananaPlug » Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:07 pm

i know that Bruce Duncan is very proud of his Moog filter, according to him it's electrically the closest thing to the 904A currently available. you might want to check that one out if you're SRS BZNS about Moog filters.
For a while, way back in the seventies, I had some access to a very nice Moog modular at a university and used that filter a lot. More recently I got the Modcan and it sure seems like what I remember. Granted that was a long time ago. I don't have any of the other clones to compare it too either.
For all round use the Modcan 10A multimode (which I don't have, yet) is more flexible and has VC resonance but I was nostalgic for what I think of as a kind of viscous quality that the 904A had. It overdrives nicely too.
I typically have the resonance down low, where it's just starting to color the sound. For certain kinds of things there's a sweet spot with resonance high but below oscillation and center frequency detuned from the oscillator's fundamental. Maybe off by a fifth or third.

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