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Two Thousand Six Hundred (TTSH) Project: Gates
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author Two Thousand Six Hundred (TTSH) Project: Gates
lessavyfav
This is fun! IS that a sheep or a cloud. Let's say sheep. Sheeply, I was gonna post this is the gian general build thread but, and I doubt I'm alone here, that thing is a rats nest in progress. I can attest to once you've built your first not really ever going back again even though I could occasionally be of use. Which I why I'm stepping out of the herd.

Anyway- to start I wanted to ask about gates and trigs. It had been my assumption that both would require +10 but I'm finding that with a lot of my Eurorack I can trigger just fine via the S&H gate input.

Rene works, as do clock outs from my Echophon, Phonogen, and gates from Maths. My doepfer A-190 Mici CV converter works well, Intellijel flip flop and uStep don't work but Spock does.

Is this "normal"? Am I magic? ;-) Anyone else wondering why they were worrying about modding up a gate/trigger booster?


ALSO:
I propose, in lieu of a subforum, we consider using a formatted subject, like "Two Thousand Six Hundred (TTSH) Project: ________" where blank is the sub topicso then those interested could search for "Two Thousand Six Hundred (TTSH) Project:" by subject and get what they want in "normal" length threads
rockwoofstone
I found similar. The main reason I implemented a booster for the gates was that without it, whilst the S&H will trigger, it's pretty tough to get the Exp VCA to open up fully. Hence, the boost up to 10V! thumbs up
yan6
Funny, as I am just building mine now, I was just thinking of triggers and gates today. I hope this isnt a hijack, but can a single +10v gate from a sequencer be run through a multiples and feed both the vco and adsr (gate and trigger).
sduck
Since this has already been covered in the general build thread, you should continue this thread there. It fits in well there, and starting numerous micro-spin-off threads will just be confusing. At least to me.
lessavyfav
Yan6- yeah the mult should be fine as long as you have a +10 gate. There is some droop as you mult signals but it is more a concern with precise voltage levels like the CV tuning OSCs.

Re: micro-spin-off threads, obviously, I think would some specific threads would be better. Finding the post you kinda remember seeing somewhere in a 50+ page thread is more confusing- for me at least.

I'm not proposing 1000 micro threads but this one for the gates and one about the ongoing issue of LED bleed make sense. Maybe also about Midi-CV converting. From my perspective these are explicitly not part of the "general build" but specific build issues that would be served well by specific discussion. As is now, someone in the general thread shows a nice stripboard +10v converter and then there are 25 posts about "I think I have an extra 100k resistor" before someone responds to the stripboard post about an improvement or whatever.
fuzzbass
I have tested this using my Mini Meanie and my new Arturia Beatstep, which puts out 7V gates. This will function with any positive going signal at around +2.67v. It can go very fast, right up into the audio range with very little distortion.

I'm sure there is someone out there who can figure out how to do this with half as many resistors. I added output buffers because I found the TTSH was loading down the TL072 outputs enough to fault the trigger generator.

There isn't much in the way of protection on it. Every time I tried to add diodes to do that, it distorted the gate and trigger signals, so I left them out. A smart person maybe can show us the way....

This circuit alone consumes about 10mA, a little bit more when driving the Gate and Trigger inputs on the Mini Meanie. It's still low enough that you should be able to drive it using the unused +/- 15VDC access on the synth main board without breaking the power budget.

Enjoy, and please do try not to turn your hands into a couple of baked potatoes.
lessavyfav
Cool! I'm considering Jerry rigging the S&H is so that when I insert signal there it does the boost. Torn between cutting a trace on the pcb or using a mult or adding a new hole. I have a 2x gain module in my eurorack set up so maybe I'll just think some more....
Altitude909
I'm using a MidiALF with the CV add on for all my testing and that has a cool adjustable 4050 based level shifter so I can push the gate signal over 10V. VERY simple circuit, schems are on his site
fuzzbass
I posted a slightly tweaked version of the timing interface over on the ttsh build thread. changed: added input resistor and changed the trigger cap to get shorter triggers. Parts list added.
yan6
Probably a stupid question but where does this get installed; on the external gate and trigger in? If so would this make the trigger in jack not required on the panel since this creates a boosted version for both gate and trigger?
LED-man
yan6 wrote:
Probably a stupid question but where does this get installed; on the external gate and trigger in? If so would this make the trigger in jack not required on the panel since this creates a boosted version for both gate and trigger?




On the picture is the wiring wrong.
But i hope it helps.
elmegil
Is that bracket JB-welded on, bolted on, or both?
LED-man
elmegil wrote:
Is that bracket JB-welded on, bolted on, or both?


Its a angle Aluminium bracket, 2 screws/spacer on one side to the pcb, screws to the frontpanel by using the speaker holes.
But take a black tape or paint the bracket black- otherwise you see it thru the speaker holes.
elmegil
AH, I see, tape. Great, thank you.
yan6
Btw just to update, I wired mine to the external gate/trigger in. I made a small panel for the back of my wood case for the power and a gate/trigger in. This way the front panel jacks are normalized to the TTSH Gates pcb and the jack I added to the back.
adnauseam
lessavyfav wrote:
This is fun! IS that a sheep or a cloud. Let's say sheep. Sheeply, I was gonna post this is the gian general build thread but, and I doubt I'm alone here, that thing is a rats nest in progress. I can attest to once you've built your first not really ever going back again even though I could occasionally be of use. Which I why I'm stepping out of the herd.


Not really sure what you're saying here, sorry seriously, i just don't get it

lessavyfav wrote:
Anyway- to start I wanted to ask about gates and trigs. It had been my assumption that both would require +10 but I'm finding that with a lot of my Eurorack I can trigger just fine via the S&H gate input.

Rene works, as do clock outs from my Echophon, Phonogen, and gates from Maths. My doepfer A-190 Mici CV converter works well, Intellijel flip flop and uStep don't work but Spock does.

Is this "normal"? Am I magic? ;-) Anyone else wondering why they were worrying about modding up a gate/trigger booster?


As I don't have a working TTSH I can't comment on this, really. Seems strange. Others have talked about < 10v trigs/gates not really opening the VCA all the way. Perhaps this is the case? Definitely audible but not 100% open?

lessavyfav wrote:
ALSO:
I propose, in lieu of a subforum, we consider using a formatted subject, like "Two Thousand Six Hundred (TTSH) Project: ________" where blank is the sub topicso then those interested could search for "Two Thousand Six Hundred (TTSH) Project:" by subject and get what they want in "normal" length threads


<rant>I would *LOVE* this. The Roadcase has it's own thread, why not the gate boosting mod? A sub forum would be pretty useful, if you ask me. Unless of course someone wants to work on fixing the search function? The TTSH thread is a massive 260+ pages and apparently loading all pages and using my browsers Find In Page function is frowned upon due to the bandwidth and processing required at the server end. I dunno. This is a Forum first and foremost but lots of us use it as a repository. Perhaps as an additional repository users could organize and set up a Wiki of some sort. I really dislike the forum format for a ton of reasons. Anyways... spinning </rant>
Altitude909
I just stuck the midi interface and gate booster on the bottom. I normalled the gate out of the midi interface into the gate in on the booster which is then connected internally to the aux gate/trigger inputs.

You do need the high gate, triggering via S/H is a crude hack at best. The gate booster is perfect since you can feed it any gate and it will spit out the gate AND trigger (you need both for the ADSR to work correctly)

fuzzbass
Occurs to me that it would be possible to hack/insert some circuitry into any patch point on this synth. Where the jack tip and normal pins come up through the main board, just solder a small wire to the pad there, and bring those tabs from the jack through with a bit of heat shrink on them and a wire lead on the very end. In the case of the gate booster, the s/h gate jack would work, and nobody would be the wiser, it would be 100% invisible. If done, the S/H would always be passing through the gate booster when no external gate was introduced.

edit: you could use the same sort of trick to use the gate booster's led signal to twinkle the S/H slider's LED...

Just an idea, I have not tried it.
jamsk
Hi,
Just wondering if anyone has a mouser part code for the mta02-100 and mta03-100 in the BOM? Having trouble locating them. Also if you have a part number for the connector with wire that go into them that would be great.
Thanks
Jamsk
elmegil
These are what I usually get:

3 pin: http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=22-23-2031virtualkey 53810000virtualkey538-22-23-2031

2 pin: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Molex/22-23-2021/?qs=ILqg114nvd4YK lRlbo3yMg%3d%3d
MrRoper
I ordered the MTA headers and connectors for the board off of RS on Wednesday. They have the 2,3 and 6 pin ones (I'm using qp's pcb with the added midimplant on it) in stock at the mo. Expensive though!!

As for the cables though I think you're gonna need to knock up your own.
jamsk
great! Thank you both for the info.
thanks
Jamsk
sduck
I use these - from mouser...

headers
2 pin - 571-640454-2
3 pin - 571-640454-3

connectors
2 pin - 571-640441-2
3 pin - 571-640441-3

dust covers
2 pin - 571-640550-2
3 pin - 571-640550-3

These connectors work with 24 awg wire. Get some spools of that, and this tool from mouser: 571-598031, and you can roll your own connector cables in a jiffy.
jamsk
great info sduck. thumbs up
thanks
Jamsk
elmegil
I'll mildly contradict sduck here though smile

I have always had better luck using the housings that use crimp pins; I have a pair of crimping pliers, and I dab each one with solder before inserting it into the housing.

The tool and the press-fit wiring works, but can be difficult at first to get reliable connections. Even experienced folks (looks at NV and the Euro Klee project) can end up with cables that test good, but come loose later.

I use, for example, this housing:
https://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=22-01-2037virtualke y53810000virtualkey538-22-01-2037

and these crimp pins:
https://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=08-50-0114virtualke y53810000virtualkey538-08-50-0114
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