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Pamela's Workout latency?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next [all]
Author Pamela's Workout latency?
metaBit
I just got an Expert Sleepers ES3. Using the Silent Way Sync plugin (VST on a Mac running Ableton Live) I found that by adjusting the offset of the SW Sync to 19 that I can get an almost perfect clock output from the ES3. By perfect I mean that when wiring one of the ES3 outputs from the SW Sync to an envelope controlling a VCA through which I pass some noise and then out to Ableton Live, my hits are bang on the quarter notes that they should be, within less than 1ms.

Knowing that I am getting a tight clock output from the ES3 I then sent that output into the Clock input of Pamela's Workout. Sadly, no matter how I set up PW, I can't get any better than about 16ms of latency from its outputs. I've tried using 24ppqn (with SW Sync and PW setup appropriately) and a custom setting of 1ppqn (again with SW Sync and PW setup appropriately) and in both cases I see around 16ms of latency.

I know my input to PW is perfect, so it seems that what I am seeing is the latency of PW itself. Anyone else using this same setup and have different results? Or the same result?

16ms may not be a ton of latency, but if there is a way to tighten this up I'd really appreciate any tips on how to do that.
dslice1
I HAVE THE EXACT SAME PROBLEMM!!!! Cant sync it to ableton. Its a freaking killer!
xclark
I experienced something similar when trying to sync Pamela to a clock from my Flame Arpeggiator - it had a difficult time keeping up. for a while, the Flame Arp was the center of my system and so the Pamela just wasn't used much. but now I'm back to using Pamela as the main clock and haven't had any issues.
Bird Of Paradise
have you tried going in and changing the number on the pqn in the clock settings? I was having the same problem clocking from abelton but once I adjusted it's been working great. I think the higher the number the less latency? The only thing is it made the clock super slow, so I had to go in and multiply each output accordingly. Hope that helps..
metaBit
I've tried clocking PW with 24ppqn and with 1ppqn. In both cases I get the exact same latency of somewhere around 16ms out of PW. :(

I've really loved PW as the heart of my out of the box sequencing setup, but now that I am incorporating Ableton Live through the ES3 I'm starting to think that I won't be able to use PW in my hybrid setup.

I don't think I am misunderstanding how either PW or Silent Way Sync work. I think PW just has a latency that is more than I'm happy working with in a hybrid setup.

For what it's worth, I tried clocking an Intellijel uStep and an Intellijel Metropolis from the same ES3 output as I was using with PW, and neither of them added any noticeable latency at all.
minphase
I think I measured it at something like 6-7ms, @ 120 bpm, so your result is consistent. I agree - PW is a great master, but not the tightest slave around. That's only a problem if you have some clocks flowing through PW, and others going around. But occasionally that's a problem in a hybrid scenario. I ended up using a Flame Clockwork+QCD for non-MIDI messing about, and a Yarns for midi world + gate world clock duties.
minphase
fun article for music/clock geeks: http://progler.blogspot.com/2011/06/searching-for-swing-participatory. html

Contains reference to the Oct 87 article in Electronic Musician magazine, "The Feel Factor". Haven't found a soft copy of that one, worth reading at your local university library.

I was hoping to use the Flame Clockwork to explore this kind of micro shifting in euro, but the quantization steps are too large. It's a fun device, regardless. I don't use it for midi purposes, so I don't know its midi-to-gate latency. Nor the Yarns', neither, for that matter. I've been concentrating on keeping the clocks inside the euro, lately. FC->QCD->rene, tiptop drums, and friends.

100th post!! Hope it's a useful one to somebody. w00t
alamandra
Could putting more load onto your processor of your computer help at all maybe? i.e smaller buffers etc more load on your cpu but if it can handle it maybe it will help. Can't hurt to have a try, you probably already did try lol but if not.
corex
alamandra wrote:
Could putting more load onto your processor of your computer help at all maybe?

No, that idea is whack and will not work. If the CPU can't keep up, you get a buffer underrun -- clicks and pops. The PC side of this equation is not the issue because he has established tight timing with the ES-3 already.
r1n9o
But jeez, if Pamela's can't slave accurately, how would one sync with a DAW?

seriously, i just don't get it
ewox
I get great results by using Silent Way's dual LFO plugin to send out 16th note clock on one channel and sync reset (every 1 or 2 bars) on a second channel. Division of the clock happens with 4MS clocking modules although you could just use more Silent Way LFO plugins to generate a bunch of different rhythms if you have enough audio outputs.

It's hard to beat sample-accurate clock sync direct from your DAW w00t

r1n9o wrote:
But jeez, if Pamela's can't slave accurately, how would one sync with a DAW?

seriously, i just don't get it
BrianAndren
It sounds like it but just to be sure. You guys are measuring ~15ms latency from the clock input to any of the outputs. That doesn't sound good.
landmax
I clock Pamela from my Elektron A4 at 24ppqn but it is not as tight as I would like. Outputting a quarter note trigger from Pamela to a TipTop 808 BD against a similarly programmed BD from the A4, there is a definite delay in the TipTop BD.
flo
Try clocking it at 48 or even better 96 ppqn.
metaBit
24 ppqn is the highest my PW supports. Pretty sure I'm on the latest firmware.
landmax
metaBit wrote:
24 ppqn is the highest my PW supports. Pretty sure I'm on the latest firmware.


Yes the highest Pam clocks is 24ppqn.
landmax
I would like to try Pamela as the master and my Elektron A4 as the slave to see if that works better. But the A4 only has midi in. There seems to be a number of midi to sync converters, but no sync to midi converters?
dmod
Yes its seems t be a slaving thing. When i clock other odules from PW kits works great but when I clock the PW from DAW into other modules the start can get a little off. This sucks because i love this module but man nothing worse then a off time beat! cry Can this be fixed in an update I wonder?
minphase
I think if it was called Mistress Pamela's Workout, everything would be clear about who wants to be a master, who wants to be a slave Agony!
metaBit
dmod wrote:
Yes its seems t be a slaving thing. When i clock other odules from PW kits works great but when I clock the PW from DAW into other modules the start can get a little off. This sucks because i love this module but man nothing worse then a off time beat! cry Can this be fixed in an update I wonder?


Wondering this myself. Guess it depends on how much of the latency is due to the hardware implementation and how much is due to the software, and how much the software could be optimized to improve this. Is the creator of PW on muffs?
landmax
The first beat seems locked on tight when pressing play on my Elektron A4 but thereafter it is out with quite a distinctive flamming sound. Not sure how many milliseconds it is though?
Abraxis
Ugh, this thread is terrible news. I just picked up a Pam for the express purpose of syncing various things in modular world with other hardware via an A4.

I mystified how a module expressly designed to send out clock, with an external clock input can't keep things in time between the two. seriously, i just don't get it


Has anyone gotten this to sync with an external source?

Does it have the same issue in euclidean mode?
juvation
i sync my PW from a TR-808, and it's mostly fine. it does lag keeping up with tempo changes, which is weird, and i always get the feeling that the two are not quite sync'd...
Abraxis
I can handle lag on tempo change, but really hope there is a way to get it in sync.

I won't beable to try anything until next week but I wonder if someone with an A4 has tried varying the clock settings in the CV config.
nedavine
This is depressing. I was planning on getting Pam this weekend but now I am not so sure.

I'm glad you guys made this thread before I made my purchase.
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