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How to destroy a Behringer DD100?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Synth Noise  
Author How to destroy a Behringer DD100?
Soy Sos
I did some searching around but came up with nothing.
Looking for a way to maybe circuit bend this piece of crap
and use it in my modular. I don't have any experience chopping
up electronics this way yet. If something very cool can be
achieved maybe even mount it in a panel.
Thanks
D/A A/D
+

lol
Soy Sos
haha.....good one......really though.
Anyone?
chimologic
Plan B was supposed to release a cv controllable version of this, limited to a certain number with euro panel... not sure what happened to that plan... probably got ELFED
D/A A/D
I agree! worst pun of the day I agree!
Soy Sos
yeah, I remember the Plan B thing. It's what at first
gave me the idea. They're so cheap. I took one apart
and tried short circuiting it out with a piece of wire,
but nothing interesting happened. I'm looking for
glitchy, fuzz echos or anything else fun and useful.
Roycie Roller
If you're going to circuit bend it, and you dont know what you're doing, make sure you do it on batteries only. Wallwarts kill circuit benders. I'd rip the guts out leaving ins & outs connected (so you can run audio through as you work on it). If theres any chips visible, get the data sheet off the net & that will tell you which pins are for what. Other than that, just get a bit of wire & start touching different points on the circuit (again-ONLY using batteries!!!) All knobs will react differently to where you put the wires. When you find something 'fucked up', solder in a potentiometer or switch and find another bend. When its truly fucked, bung it behind a DIY panel. Oh and the data sheet will tell you cv pins. You could always hack into the Behringer website & do what D/A A/D suggested!
Soy Sos
Thanks, yeah I knew about the batteries only rule.
Battery powered amp too. I guess I really need to
be prepared to spend a long time searching around
the circuit until something interesting happens.
But if anyone does know more about this specific
pedal that would be great. I don't care if I fuck it
up in the process.
Roycie Roller
Cool. Just curious, why the battery powered amp? I do my bends running straight into an amp on 240v.
p.s.-those Behringer pedals that bad, eh? Almost worth pulling the chip/s out & breadboarding something else?
Soy Sos
Battery powered because I'm a total novice
and don't want to blow anything up. Yeah the
Behringer is total crap. I'm just looking to
mess around on this and see if anything unique
can be had from it. I just figured someone
out there had come up with something at some point.
Roycie Roller
You wont blow an amp up if you only have an audio cable running into it, but you can get some nasty pops & tones when you're circuit bending- just keep the gain down on the amp so you don't blow your eardrums. This subject has got me to thinking how the chips being made today may one day become the heart of new modules. Perhaps Plan B were thinking this as well? I'd love to see Harvestman do a few different Tyme Sefaris based on different looping/sampling IC's.
-Rolly
futuresoundsystems
Roycie Roller wrote:
This subject has got me to thinking how the chips being made today may one day become the heart of new modules.

It's definitely a growing trend. From my own designs using CMOS Logic chips (Decade Counter, etc.) to small synth-voice modules based on arcade chips, I'd say there's definitely a growing number of modules based around an actual chip.

BTW, I have a DD100, and even though its functionality is awful, I respect Behringer for making these pedals so cheap. If they don't give you what you want, you can easily open them up and start modding/bending them. Or even rip the parts out of them.
Roycie Roller
Hey there FutureSoundSystems!
I love your decade counter vid on youtube & have enjoyed your posts espousing the virtues of the 555 timer. I was gonna ask- is the decade counter far off? What else have you got cookin' up? I want to get into crossing chips that were never intended to be used that way- could open up new forms of synthesis (hopefully). Could just blow a pile' o' chips too!
Kent
BIG disclaimer: I did research on a lawsuit against Behringer regarding their penchant for copying designs. I'll try to be as factual as possible without making subjective calls. I work for the parent company of a company that successfully prosecuted them in a court of law.

My main beef with Behringer is the fact that they infringe upon the work & property rights of companies and design engineers. These companies & engineers have financial obligations to their shareholders, employees, & families.

While not every design that 'B' puts out is a 'copy' or lifts segments of design from other companies, they certainly did put out their share and they certainly don't innovate and then bring something new to the market of consumers.

There are many other things that I don't feel comfortable putting into print & it isn't because these things aren't true or verified. There are legal reasons. It's a touchy subject to be sure.

I love to throw my support behind businesses in good standing that make our musical world more interesting. However, I'm a bleeding heart ethical son-of-a-bitch from time to time... help

To be clear, I hold nothing against futuresoundsystems' post or Soy Sos' post or sentiments. It just pains me to not air the other side of the story; as much as I can, of course. When it happens to you, or something in which you are involved; it's like, "Ugh..." and your heart sinks... and then you get mad as hell.

futuresoundsystems wrote:
..., I respect Behringer for making these pedals so cheap. If they don't give you what you want, you can easily open them up and start modding/bending them. Or even rip the parts out of them.
Soy Sos
Kent,
to be sure I completely agree with you about Scaringer.
I'm super all about supporting and spending my money
on small innovative companies like Harvestman, Folktek,
Plan B, Livewire, Doepfer etc etc....
I just for the moment thought I would try to put some
energy into making some kind of glitched out digital delay
out of a piece of crap DD100 I picked up for $25.
I'm just tapped out and can't afford a Tyme Sefari! grin
Roycie Roller
B took the Chinese manufacturing/outsourcing route early on. Those plastic pedals & 1/2 space rack effects they've flooded the market with do two things (among others) 1. undercut the other manufacturers by paying Chinese workers a pittance, and 2. pollute the environment by mass-manufacturing total rubbish. I'm sure the lax manufacturing laws in China have allowed them to lift designs & because it's a G***** owned company operating in China, it would afford them a kind of ability to remain outside of the reach of trans-continental patent laws. Thats enough of a reason for me to want to fuck up a pedal of theirs- just like you want to kick to pieces every bit of stray McDonald's wrapper that floats by. I feel for the designers who get ripped off, and try to observe a decent ethic by supporting cottage industries where i can, however once something 'exists', it cannot be just void. We're so powerless against that mass-produced vomit flowing out of China that we simply cannot stop it (try as we might!). I say trash the fuckin thing. (at the same time as non-complying to B's business ethic)!
Muff Wiggler
that's pretty much how i feel about Behringer, Wal-Mart and many companies in similar positions. Sometimes it's just worth paying more, sometimes for many reasons.
futuresoundsystems
Roycie Roller wrote:
I love your decade counter vid on youtube & have enjoyed your posts espousing the virtues of the 555 timer. I was gonna ask- is the decade counter far off? What else have you got cookin' up? I want to get into crossing chips that were never intended to be used that way- could open up new forms of synthesis (hopefully). Could just blow a pile' o' chips too!

Hey there, thanks for checking my stuff out!
Far off? You can order from me now, but all modules are built to the customer's specification so it can take a while (shouldn't be longer than a few weeks now though). If you want a module built, just contact me privately. smile Shawn from AH currently isn't replying to any of my emails, so I would have said that if you want a DC1, you're better off ordering from me direct seeing as within a couple of weeks, access to manufacturing PCBs will be closed for about a month. I'm gonna warn Shawn the start of next week that if he does actually want a batch of modules, he'll need to say, otherwise it's just gonna have to wait for several weeks.
I'm getting more and more into the awfully-simple-yet-sometimes-effective technology of PIC chips and I have a few (hopefully fairly unique and/or useful) modules up my sleeve for release in the future. Watch this space.
The 4000 series of CMOS Logic Chips do a lot of strange/different jobs when placed into a synthesis scenario. The decade counter chip forms the second half of an oscillator I'm working on (the A-D-D-A oscillator) at the moment, which can produce some really screwed up sounds when the Pitch CV, Reset and Disable inputs are driven hard. 80s arcade sound effects are a doddle. hihi

Reverting back to the original topic:
I knew about the controversy over some of these pedals, but didn't really know where the lawsuits ended up. It's a shame that they're blatently copying other designs (most of the time "badly"), but, for the money, I'm afraid I'll stick to them. meh Vicious circle of money <-> ethics again I'm afraid. :(
flts
Roycie Roller wrote:
I'm sure the lax manufacturing laws in China have allowed them to lift designs & because it's a German owned company operating in China, it would afford them a kind of ability to remain outside of the reach of trans-continental patent laws.


In any case, they've been sued more than once and they can be sued again - they're selling the products in EU and USA via normal retail channels anyway. It might be that they get away with it because not enough companies actually care about taking legal action. Or maybe they're just good in cloning stuff in a way that's practically ripping off, but somehow done in a manner that nobody is going to have an easy case with it.

The Behr ripoffs feel kind of borderline performance art or comedy sometimes since they also rip the names and, oftentimes the looks, so blatantly. Mackie Onyx vs Behringer Xenyx (I LMAO'd over that one), Truth 2030A and 2031A vs Genelec 1030A and 1031A, ADA8000 vs AD8000 (or ADI-8?), et cetera. And remember that case with Behringer guitar pedal line that they announced at NAMM, that looked about 100% like the Boss pedals they cloned, and how they about immediately had to modify the looks because Boss wasn't happy? d'oh!

I don't support them or buy their stuff, mainly because I hate the whole goddamn throwaway society -way of thinking. I'll rather have a few quality pieces of gear that I need than loads of crap I won't be going to use, in any case.

But it's kind of... On the other hand, I don't expect kids starting out to get a pair of Genelec monitors or a seasoned pro to buy a pair of Truths because "hey, they're just like the Genelecs but a lot cheaper!" The point is, the whole copy designs from other manufacturers and spew out crap -idea makes them money and they ARE lifting off other peoples' work which sucks to put it very mildly. BUT OTOH, I don't know how much copying a high-end monitor or converter design badly is actually going to affect the sales of the said gear, when the people who actually are going to buy those aren't totally clueless nor penniless.

Reminds me... Once every now and then someone on electro-music or some other forum seems to pretty openly say that Doepfer is doing kind of similar cloning, but in a smaller scale. I remember just recently that one of the talented DIY guys pulled off one of his schematics from a public thread since he was afraid that Dieter would take a look at it and make a module without asking permission, or something like that. Does anyone have an idea whether this is actually happening or whether it's just some sort of inside joke in the community?
flts
futuresoundsystems wrote:
I'm getting more and more into the awfully-simple-yet-sometimes-effective technology of PIC chips


That's what I've been thinking myself... If I started doing DIY designs for fun I'd probably start trying it out with microcontrollers and AD/DA with some added analog bits. Although for me it's mainly because I totally and utterly suck at analog electronics and suck a bit less at programming microcontrollers lol
sgnhh
flts wrote:
Reminds me... Once every now and then someone on electro-music or some other forum seems to pretty openly say that Doepfer is doing kind of similar cloning, but in a smaller scale. I remember just recently that one of the talented DIY guys pulled off one of his schematics from a public thread since he was afraid that Dieter would take a look at it and make a module without asking permission, or something like that. Does anyone have an idea whether this is actually happening or whether it's just some sort of inside joke in the community?


I can see why this is said. He's developing a thru-zero VCO in lieu of the Cyndustries ZO, he's got a wave animator in lieu of the Cyndustries Sawtooth Animator, he's developing a bit crusher which appears to compete with the Harvestman Malgorithm, etc. These aren't the exact same modules, but he is sorting of jumping on the bandwagon.
flts
sgnhh wrote:
I can see why this is said. He's developing a thru-zero VCO in lieu of the Cyndustries ZO, he's got a wave animator in lieu of the Cyndustries Sawtooth Animator, he's developing a bit crusher which appears to compete with the Harvestman Malgorithm, etc. These aren't the exact same modules, but he is sorting of jumping on the bandwagon.


Yeah, that much I've noticed too - but the vibe I get is kind of that he would've kind of lifted "unprotected" ideas and circuit designs from the DIY community without giving the relevant people credit or share of the income. Kind of, something more serious than just jumping on the bandwagon.

I don't know if that's some particular case some people are mad about, if he's having a track record of doing stuff like that, or if it's just something I'm imagining. In any case, would be interesting to find out. I've found Dieter to be very helpful and cool guy, but I might respect his work a bit less if he's not actually being fair to other synth designers out there.

Anyway, I realize it's really unfair to even imply making any accusations based on hearsay, so let me emphasize that I have no idea whatsoever if there's anything like that going on. It was just the feeling I got by reading some posts at electro-music and some other forums (maybe modularsynth?) at some point, and it would be nice to know what's going on "behind the scenes".
mmetlay
Roycie Roller wrote:
B took the Chinese manufacturing/outsourcing route early on. Those plastic pedals & 1/2 space rack effects they've flooded the market with do two things (among others) 1. undercut the other manufacturers by paying Chinese workers a pittance, and 2. pollute the environment by mass-manufacturing total rubbish.


I am beginning to suspect that Uli Behringer invited the press to Behringer City in February for the very shrewd reason that it's much harder to demonize Chinese factories if they cease to be a monolithic overseas presence churning out cheap electronics and become actual buildings filled with actual people who are grateful to have jobs and who smile and wave when you walk by. I talked about this in my blog. Yeah, it's lines and lines of people working hard at grinding monotonous work in building after building, but it's hard to lose sight of the fact that they're people.

That said, my overall opinion of Behringer gear, for good and ill, hasn't changed since seeing how it was built. If anything, I think I have a better understanding of why some of their products just plain don't work, straight out of the box.

mike
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