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Securing a PCB to a faceplate.
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY  
Author Securing a PCB to a faceplate.
Waz
What do you guys do to secure PCBs perpendicular to the faceplate? I'm really at a loss with this one.
seriously, i just don't get it

*Edited to take horizontal mounting into consideration as well.
Muff Wiggler
wee little L-shaped brackets

see here:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=585
Waz
Muff Wiggler
Are these easily obtainable from the hardware store?
Muff Wiggler
yep, try the framing/hanging section

Waz
Thanks. I'm not a hardware store kinda guy, so I never thought of that. You saved me some serious cash though. I was going to buy the bridechamber ones.
applause
Muff Wiggler
i've never bought anything like that, i have the biggest pile of 'random bits' all in a container, and somehow there's tons of those, been kicking around here for years, since way before i thought of making DIY modules!
meridic
I bend a piece of thin aluminum into an L shape. I make it so it is about 1" smaller then the hieght of the face plate. The face plate side of the L is long enough to go under the the pots/jacks on one side and is drilled so it has corresponding holes for the pots/jacks. The other side of the L is long enough to accomedate the PCB + the pots/jacks, The PCB mounts onto that part of the L with standoffs. This way the jacks/pots afix the bracket and the PCB to the panel with no extra holes and no screws are needed or visable on the front panel.
consumed
i had trouble finding tiny little brackets with 4-40 threading so i ordered from mcmaster.com
you can also find a great assortment of threaded standoffs there if you want to set your pcb back a bit
ultimately i ended up switching to 1" 1/16" aluminum L-bracket to mount the pcb (found it at lowes hardware store)
the L-bracket works great if you have pots on the board, as those are deep enough to mount onto
its more work but you dont end up with screws in the front panel.

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/userpix/57_topp281fin1_1.jpg
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/userpix/57_topp281fin2_1.jpg
pugix
I think this is one answer to your question. Pardon me, if I didn't understand.

I often use Bridechamber brackets for DIY projects (and before that, the similar Stooge brackets). The idea is that pots or jacks on the panel mount through the front part of the bracket, securing it to the panel at the same time, and the PC board mounts on standoffs to the bracket sticking out the back. Example:

http://pugix.com/synth/resonant-lopass-gate/

This is nice and sturdy, and there aren't any screws showing on the front panel. The depth of the bracket is usually determined by the size of the PC board. The deepest are some of the CGS boards. Example:

http://pugix.com/synth/dual-cgs-65-tube-vca-timbral-gate/
sduck
I agree!

Like this-

Muff Wiggler
that is a WAY better approach than my 'found' L-brackets

and no extra hole on the faceplate! thumbs up
valis
I just use the little Ls and drill a small hole in the panel. Here's what I use:

Mouser Part No: 534-621
neandrewthal
I'm too cheap for the bridechamber stooge brackets too, so I make my own out of galvanized step flashing from Home Depot. It's really thin, but sturdy enough for me. It comes pre bent for $.99 per 10" or so sheet and it cuts easily with a pair of shears. It doesn't extend very far behind the panel, so you can't mount all 4 corners of the PCB to it like pugix and sduck do unless it's a pretty small PCB. I don't like doing that anyway because I prefer to do the wiring with the boards in place already.

doctorvague
neandrewthal wrote:





Whatever that module is, it looks like quite a project - YOW!!
Dave Kendall
Hi.

Similar to some other guys here, I use bits of 20mm x 20mm aluminium "L" angle from a hardware store. Comes in up to 2 metre lengths.

Pots go through the face on the panel, and the pot on its own is spaced with an M8 washer. When bigger boards are used, a longer (and bigger - 25x25 or 30x30mm) piece of L bracket is used, and cut away above the jacks to give clearance for them. M3 bolts, washers and nuts secure the PCB to the bracket.
Photo shows a CGS65 tube VCA in a 12HP euro rack. There's a DPDT toggle just behind the bracket.

The pots are rotated through 180 degrees, as they are Alpha-type with knurled shafts with a slot in them. This way, tightening the screw on a collet knob doesn't squash the two halves of the shaft together. The pot pins are bent back through 90 degrees.



cheers,
Dave
(edited to make more sense, hopefully...)
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
I go to a place called "Metal Supermarket" and buy sheets of 1/32" stainless steel for my custom stooge brackets. I am lucky enough to work in a place with a machine shop, so I have access to all the tools I need: a pedal-operated guillotine with adjustable gate, a punch (looks like giant pliers from hell, with a selection of male and female punch bits in various sizes), a press (the hydraulic kind with the big "one-armed bandit" handle, with 90-degree-angle bending jigs), and a wire-wheel (for dressing and buffing sharp edges).

I punch 3/8" holes for the pot shafts (2 or 3, depending on the size of the board) and 1/8" holes for the PCB mounting screws. I typically leave 3/4" to 1" of clearance between the back of the pots (I invariably use 24mm Alpha pots from Small Bear) and the edge of the PCB. I can cut, punch, bend and buff a bracket in about 15 minutes. It's deeply satisfying! Lotsa Love

Here's a couple of pix:
Waz
This thread is border-line "sticky" worthy
bf
I know that this is counter to the question of the op and not always an option depending on the size of the board, but as this thread is turning into a resource worthy one I figured I might as well add my parallel hack job in fwiw.
I prep spots a bit larger than the size of a standoff on the back of the panel and use a bit of JB weld. 1" standoffs give plenty of clearance for switches and pots.

I only used three standoffs here, two being on the far side of the board.
Waz
bf
It's cool. I didn't realize this thread would become worthy of praise. I edited the main subject line to encompass all PCB mounting.
SlayerBadger!
emdot_ambient
This should definitely be stickied. I dread the HW side of DIY. Populating PCB's I actually find soothing, but all the HW chores...cutting, bending, drilling, assembling...are like nightmares waiting to happen.
fonik
i make myself brackets from steelsheets too, and mount them using the jack sockets or potentiometers, as seen on al these nice pix above. what i like about it is that you don't see mounting screws ont he front.

for completness: i know that some guys use 2-component glue to mount standoffs to the aluminium panel. anyone?
bf
fonik wrote:
for completness: i know that some guys use 2-component glue to mount standoffs to the aluminium panel. anyone?
That is essential what my example is, although using an epoxy rather than a glue.
zthee
This is the way I like to do it.

Not mine on the picture though - http://icb.se/araya/pics/sergepics/serge_open_big.jpg
Waz
fonik wrote:
i make myself brackets from steelsheets too, and mount them using the jack sockets or potentiometers, as seen on al these nice pix above. what i like about it is that you don't see mounting screws ont he front.

for completness: i know that some guys use 2-component glue to mount standoffs to the aluminium panel. anyone?


My dad suggested I should just glue the PCB to the panel via hot glue. I opted out of that. He's a big DIYer, but isn't into the aesthetics of it
Waz
zthee wrote:
This is the way I like to do it.

Not mine on the picture though - http://icb.se/araya/pics/sergepics/serge_open_big.jpg


That is quite intimidating. Makes my hair fall out just thinking about building something like that.
bf
zthee wrote:
This is the way I like to do it.

Not mine on the picture though - http://icb.se/araya/pics/sergepics/serge_open_big.jpg
Out of curiosity, what do you make the PCB frame out of?
zthee
bf, I'll take some pictures tomorrow and show you!
bf
Thanks
bananeurysm
+1 for this as a sticky!
pugix
Stack em up!



http://pugix.com/synth/catgirl-synth-pulse-divider/
sduck
I agree! Stack 'em up!!!





neandrewthal
I'll stack 'em up when I have to:







But, given a choice, I much to prefer to line 'em up! nanners





zthee


This is how the L-bracket I use to mount my boards with looks like (this is a short piece, that's supposed to sit on the ends. But I ended up not using it). I get them from my local hardware store. They're like $7 for a meter or so.



And this is what it looks like when it's put together. You'll see the hinges I built to be able to open the panel like a book. It's great when you're going to service the unit. You'll also see the nylon spacings I use to lift the board from the aluminum bracket. The distance between the PCB and front panel is about an inch.

-

Next time I'll go for the original Serge style though - using cable ties to mount the PCBs. It's utter crap, but I want to do it the "real" way smile

Anyone knows where it's possible to get the rails to mount the boards? -> http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3616/3442313176_300de8fe18_b.jpg
bananeurysm
Zthee - so when you tighten those screws I assume they're threaded into nuts and the keeps the hinge from flapping about when you're not servicing it?

The panel itself is screwed into your boats right? So one side of each pcbs is secured as shown and no other support is needed?

Looks great!!
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
What is making my hair fall out (what little hasn't already) is looking at these pictures of massively complicated wiring jobs done without connectors. MY ASS IS BLEEDING Connectors make wiring so much easier because you can do it with the PCB already mounted (you don't require access to the back). I tend to wire up each multipin connector one at a time. I have spools of wire hanging on the wall, and I grab several strands and solder them to the various destinations from a single connector. Then, I gather them all up and cut them all together to the proper lengths (much the way a barber gathers up hair between his fingers) with just the right amount of slack going into the connector. Then I strip, crimp, plug in, and finally throw a garden tie around the bundle somewhere to keep it tidy. I can completely wire up a panel of "normal" density (such as the "2164 Expo VCO" ( w00t ) shown in my previous post) this way in about half an hour. If I need to repair or mess with the board for any reason, I can have it unplugged, unscrewed and on the bench in one minute. Sometimes I come up with little design improvements in my boards, but use the same panel hardware. Then, I can just swap the boards.

Also, reflecting on zthee's picture of the hinged standoff, I would worry that the odd snipped solder joint on the back of the board might snag one of the wires (it probably wouldn't happen, but...). Also, with a tangle of wires, I might begin to worry about inductive noise. dizzy That's a lesson I learned pretty early in my DIY career, when I built a couple modified MFOS Weird Sound Generators into plastic videocassette cases. One of the wires strung across the case was carrying an amplified signal from the VCF, and that signal was being broadcast into the rest of the circuit. I braided another length of wire around it and soldered one end to ground (leaving the other end free) and this eliminated the noise. Ever since then, I've been very circumspect about having wires go all over the place. I usually like to get them from point A to point B as directly as possible, preferably with several wires bundled together.
emdot_ambient
I like the wire connectors idea as well...only I haven't really looked into which ones I need to order and for what project.

Unfortunately, the main project I'm working on now uses PCBs I got like 10 years ago and they've pulled all the I/O connections together on one edge of the PCB so that it can plug into a card edge connector. So I either run wires directly off of the PCB, or I rig something up using card edge connectors, which would be a hassle but might make some of what I'm doing a little more organized.
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
Hey emdot, if the edge connector pads are spaced 0.1" or 0.156" apart, then just drill a tiny hole in each one (carefully!) in a straight line and solder the appropriate MTA connector to it. For the 0.1" connectors, I use a #60 bit. For the 0.156" ones, I use a 1/16" bit. To line the holes up, lay a piece of perfboard over them and use a small awl or something else small and pointy to mark the copper. It's best if you C-clamp this down to the bench and actually whack the awl into each hole (gently!) with a small hammer. These pockmarks will guide the drill bit. (You'll probably want to use a drill press -- I have a cheapo Ryoki from Home Despot which I use for everything -- boards, panels, whatever -- $100 brand new).
Luka
if you are good enough to finish large wiring jobs successfully without connectors all luck to you!!, i usually mess up a few things here and there so i use them. they make the build take a lot longer
sduck
Connectors are full of potential fail. Properly done hard wiring is legacy type stuff.

Klee and similar large stuff are exempt from any of the above glyphs.

With my stuff, all the wiring is planned out rigorously - all signal level stuff, or anything that be noise inductive is properly insulated and isolated from noise producing stuff. It also has to be laid out so that any and all troubleshooting can be done easily and without stress on the wiring. (note that that hasn't always been the case with my stuff - live and learn and all that - see my Doomsday machine for example)
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
sduck wrote:
Connectors are full of potential fail. Properly done hard wiring is legacy type stuff.


Yes, I suppose if you're using your modular whilst riding a mechanical bull, then the connectors might come loose! razz

But seriously, I try to avoid using too many 2-pin connectors, because they can be a little bit loose. However, many-pin connectors are very tight, and honestly, unless one is shaking the ol' modular around, I don't see how they are going to come loose on their own. Especially considering that they lock in place (somewhat).
rico loverde
I've been using a pair of metal shears, a drill, my door (to bend - worx great!!!), and some sheet metal from Home Depot.

[/img]
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
I really like the "door bending" idea. Very clever!
lukas412
Looks great Rico!
iopop
Sorry for bumping this one, but its a goldmine for inspiration.

bf wrote:
I prep spots a bit larger than the size of a standoff on the back of the panel and use a bit of JB weld. 1" standoffs give plenty of clearance for switches and pots.


Anyone else gluing/cold welding standoffs to the panel? How stable is it ? Seems like a quite easy worked solution, attach standoff to PCB, add glue, apply and wait?
LektroiD
I was stuck on this dilemma for a while and only built modules where the pots were soldered to the PCB (not many of those in 5U land)... Anyway, I went on a mission to find something, I had a few standoffs in my component cabinets (either made of plastic or nylon, I don't know what material exactly, I just knew they were quite strong), they were great while they lasted, but once these were exhausted, I went on a mission to find something... My local model shop was the answer!...

They sell lengths of plastic/nylon tubes (or whatever they are made of), a square tube with a round bore, just the right size to drive a small self tapping screw into. They work great as standoffs, the beauty being that they can be cut to any length, so if the back of some components are bigger than average, you can make them longer for clearance...

There is also another added bonus; since they are square on the outside, you can drill into the side of them and have the PCB oriented whichever way you like. They seem pretty damned strong too, once your screw has cut a tap into the bore it is solid (even with really short screws).

Here's a linked pic of what they look like, but can't guarantee if these are the actual ones.. I'll ask next time I'm in the model shop and find out who makes them and what they are made of.

Rod Serling Fan Club
iopop wrote:
Sorry for bumping this one, but its a goldmine for inspiration.

bf wrote:
I prep spots a bit larger than the size of a standoff on the back of the panel and use a bit of JB weld. 1" standoffs give plenty of clearance for switches and pots.


Anyone else gluing/cold welding standoffs to the panel? How stable is it ? Seems like a quite easy worked solution, attach standoff to PCB, add glue, apply and wait?


Yes, I use this method. Works great.
iopop
Do you use JB Weld or any other adhesive? Getting hold of standoffs is pretty easy, the JB weld is more troublesome here.
Rod Serling Fan Club
JB Weld from the hardware store
ericD13
Nobody mentionned pot mounting bracket.
I don't find them on mouser.
Are they myths ?
fonik
i am doing the pot mounting brackets myself (DIY, hehe).
just bought some sheets of steel (0.5mm thick) at the local hardware store. i cut and drill them as i need them. for bending i use a vise, for cutting i use tin snips.
recently i used 0,8mm aluminium, which worked great, too.

edit: added pix



ericD13
ericD13 wrote:
Nobody mentionned pot mounting bracket.
I don't find them on mouser.
Are they myths ?


I answer myself : they're real !

I found them at cesyg's pot brackets
Dego
I love this thread love
iopop
Same here, this one is pure pr0n. hyper
sduck
ericD13 wrote:
Nobody mentionned pot mounting bracket.


Probably no-one mentioned them because they're one of the worst ways to mount a pcb. Puts too much stress on the pcb when and if the module gets dropped or jostled. I've built a few modules using this method, and had to repair more than one of them after some incident that mounting on a regular bracket would have avoided. In almost all situations where pot mounting brackets could be used, you could instead use a regular panel type bracket that is held on by the pots, and run wires to connect the pots or whatever to the pcb - much more robust in the log run!
wsy
JB-weld is just a good quality steel-filled epoxy. It sets up very hard and has very good
peel strength - but there are a hundred other brands of what's basically the same thing.

You might need to take the train ride over to Copenhagen but Malmo used to have a
pretty good industrial base and you should be able to find steel-filled epoxy there.

One hint: use a rotary tool (Dremel or equivalent) to grind up the surface where you're
going to put the epoxy - and grind it *just* before you mix the epoxy, and don't touch
it after grinding. The rough, unoxidized surface will bond really well to the brackets.

Another hint: if you have more than one bracket on the same panel back, bolt the
brackets to an unstuffed PCB (or something with holes in the exact same place),
and use that as a positioning jig to make sure the brackets are lined up and at the
correct distance (which means the PCB won't be stressed when mounted).

And do use wires between the pots/switches and the PCB, to avoid ripping the traces
right off the PCB.

- Bill
synthcube
I could be wrong but I think bridechamber/stooge are steel? Fonik uses steel as do many others etc... just curious to hear opinions.
fonik
i used sttel, however, i used aluminum, too. aluminium burns much easier than steel (1200degC, i guess), but hey, i don't care...
neil.johnson
ericD13 wrote:
ericD13 wrote:
Nobody mentionned pot mounting bracket.
I don't find them on mouser.
Are they myths ?


I answer myself : they're real !

I found them at cesyg's pot brackets


Please note that page has moved to a faster server:

cesyg's pot brackets

Thanks,
Neil
pugix
The MOTM (Bridechamber) brackets are steel. This is fine, as long as the panel exactly meets your needs. But steel is tough to cut and drill. I've been making small brackets using thin sheet aluminum from Lowes. Not sure of the thickness, but it's thin enough that I cut it by scoring deeply with a utility knife and bending till it breaks. It is really easy to drill (and file when your holes are a little off). Once you put a bend in the aluminum panel, it is fairly rigid.

Example projects using the thin aluminum:

http://pugix.com/synth/mattson-vcf/
http://pugix.com/synth/dual-resonant-gate/
http://pugix.com/synth/modular-tetrazzi/

For CGS projects, I have often used Bridechamber steel brackets, since they are pre-drilled to match Ken Stone's PC boards.

http://pugix.com/synth/cgs-serge-vcs/
thetwlo
any reason to not use the cheap steel lath from places like Home depot? bends easily, can mount anything to it without drilling, can flatten easily.
sturdy, yet easy to bend.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/27-in-x-8-ft-Steel-Lath-2-5-METAL-LATH/2020 93395#.UfTJSKvEq8J
pugix
About the cheap steel lath, I'd wonder how easy it is to make holes for mounting boards, as well as how sturdy it is when you bend it 90 degrees. That's my basic technique for imparting some sturdiness to the thin Lowes aluminum stock. Make a right angle bend, usually where pots will go through to mount a panel. That bend will stiffen the material along one axis. It can still flop back and forth along the other axis, but if you affix a small PC board, that also increases the stiffness.

In general I don't like to work with steel, because it is hard to cut and bend, and when drilled produces sharp, dangerous filings.
keninverse
For brackets I use K&S model aluminum sheet with a thick enough guage that does not bend. It's soft enough to drill but rigid. When I need to make a perpendicular angle, I just score with a formica scoring knife a few times then bend it with a vice and a piece of wood molding. Works for me. The aluminum sheets come precut to a sizer perfect for Euro (comes in 12" x 6" sheets) so I only need to make one cut with a hacksaw.
hexinverter
I made this little video showing how I do it smile

Cablebasher
Hey fellas,

So I have decided to go down the sheet metal cut with tin snips and drilled holes for mounting pots route as suggested.

Any advice on the drilling process? My drill has only ever been used for wood so far, I guess I'll need a special drill bit and maybe a vice for safety?

Thanks as always.
mechie
Cablebasher wrote:

Any advice on the drilling process? My drill has only ever been used for wood so far, I guess I'll need a special drill bit and maybe a vice for safety?

The drill bits I have (very common type) are happy with wood, metal, plastic... anything but masonry!
One word of warning...
When drilling this really thin metal (steel and alu, applies to PCBs as well) when the the drill bit breaks through the material it will try to 'corkscrew' the board, sheet, whatever up the drill's shaft. THIS is when there will be a sudden 'snatch' and the drill will try to spin the sheet, slicing all in its path
Viking
Don't use too much force to push the drill through the sheet, let it take its time.
I ALWAYS smooth the metal sheet's edges and corners before drilling so it is less likely to slice when it does go wrong (and eventually it will) waah
If you have the option, use a low drill speed so it is less likely to launch your bit of steel across the workshop.
Hold the workpiece firmly, expecting it to 'snatch'.
Be prepared to just let go if the drill does grab - don't try to catch it, let it stop spinning first.

If you only have a pistol drill (a hand-held drill) then it may be safest to put your workpiece on the floor with a bit of wood below it. STAND ON IT whilst drilling. Expect all the above problems.
Ideally, drill first, cut to size after, then there is more to STAND ON!

I use aluminium sheet for brackets, I say the above from experience!
Don't be scared off though - just be prepared!
mskala
mechie wrote:
One word of warning...
When drilling this really thin metal (steel and alu, applies to PCBs as well) when the the drill bit breaks through the material it will try to 'corkscrew' the board, sheet, whatever up the drill's shaft. THIS is when there will be a sudden 'snatch' and the drill will try to spin the sheet, slicing all in its path


I wouldn't drill metal without clamping it firmly in place with C-clamps, a vise, or both. Going handheld is not only dangerous, but inaccurate.
mechie
mskala wrote:
I wouldn't drill metal without clamping it firmly in place with C-clamps, a vise, or both. Going handheld is not only dangerous, but inaccurate.

So you don't centre-pop your holes then?
roglok
Cablebasher wrote:

Any advice on the drilling process? My drill has only ever been used for wood so far, I guess I'll need a special drill bit and maybe a vice for safety?


i use a step drill, such as these:



you start with a small pilot hole, then gradually drill it up to the desired diameter. the type pictured above will also act as a deburrer.

initial investment may be high, but well worth it imho...
mskala
mechie wrote:
mskala wrote:
I wouldn't drill metal without clamping it firmly in place with C-clamps, a vise, or both. Going handheld is not only dangerous, but inaccurate.

So you don't centre-pop your holes then?


I use a centre punch, but even so I don't trust myself to keep a handheld drill on target without clamping the workpiece.
aladan
roglok wrote:
Cablebasher wrote:

Any advice on the drilling process? My drill has only ever been used for wood so far, I guess I'll need a special drill bit and maybe a vice for safety?


i use a step drill, such as these:



you start with a small pilot hole, then gradually drill it up to the desired diameter. the type pictured above will also act as a deburrer.

initial investment may be high, but well worth it imho...


Step drills are awesome! The only thing better is a CNC machine smile
davebr
I make all my panels out of 0.050" aluminum. I ended up buying a full sheet so I have a lifetime supply! I bought 5052-H32 which is fairly soft. 0.050" thickness works well with potentiometers, jacks, and mini-toggle switches. I have seen small 0.050" aluminum sheets in hobby stores.

Originally I used pneumatic shears to cut it. It is a little challenging to cut it straight so I made a wooden guide.


Originally I would clamp the aluminum between two steel I beams and then hammer it to 90 degrees. I ended up buying a small Grizzly brake for better bends. I also bought a small Grizzly corner shear. I tend now to rough out the aluminum with the pneumatic shear and then finalize it with the corner shear. I can only cut a 6" section so longer pieces require multiple cuts. I also work on cars so the brake and shear help there as well.


Most brackets are simple bends. I mark and drill the bracket slightly smaller than the finished hole. In the case of 3/8" potentiometers I drill up to 5/16". Then I drill the center hole to 3/8" and mount the panel to the bracket with one control. Then I carefully drill the remaining holes out with a 3/8" drill from the front so the bracket holes are perfectly aligned with the panel. There isn't much material so there isn't much waste, but the waste is coming out through the top so you need to be careful to not scratch the panel. Step drills are nice for roughing the hole up but you have to be careful to not drill too far. I usually wrap tape around the drill where I need to stop. After using the drill for a bit the size information wears off so I have to measure to verify.


In the case of my latest panel, the rotary switches I used were a bit too short to mount the panel with so I mounted it with the three mini-toggle switches. I had to notch the panel to clear the rotary switches and also one of the mini-toggle switches so I could wire it. I used the corner shear for the rotary switches and a hand nibbler for the toggle switch openings.


My MiniWave had a top mounted PCB and I wanted to have this mount on the bracket so I needed a three sided bracket. I bent the standard L shape and then brazed another aluminum piece on top. This is probably my most complex bracket because of the brazing.


I put a lot of effort into making a robust sturdy bracket. It is the foundation for a reliable module.

Dave
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