how do i get these dub chords?

Anything modular synth related that is not format specific.

Moderators: lisa, luketeaford, Kent, Joe.

Post Reply
merretich
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 462
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:11 pm

how do i get these dub chords?

Post by merretich » Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:58 am

I would like to get a few dub chords out of my eurorack. Lately Ive tried it by taking the pulse width out of an osc into a filter which is modulated by an envelope and an lfo. This sound dubby but still does anyone have any kind of recommendations or experiences with nice chords?

User avatar
Stereotactixxx
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 832
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:16 am
Location: Sweden

Post by Stereotactixxx » Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:05 am

Without an example of what you are after, it's difficult to get into specifics. However, what all dub chords have in common is that they are chords, and therefore you are going to need at least three oscillators tuned into a minor chord to begin with. Many dub chords have multiple oscillators per note, or at least a way of approximate that sound with a sawtooth animator, PWM or a chorus. Thereafter, just mix the oscillators into a LPF and modulate that with the same envelope that you use to modulate the VCA. Lastly, drench it all in high pass filtered delay and reverb, and voila, you are done.

User avatar
ben_hex
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 6723
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 12:58 pm
Location: West Yorkshire, England

Post by ben_hex » Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:06 am

Need more to know what you're going for. I've recently made a dub chords ableton rack which will be out soon so I can go through what I've done there if that's helpful. But give some examples then we can go at making the sounds.
All DivKid video series to be found here!
http://www.youtube.com/divkidvideo

merretich
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 462
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:11 pm

Post by merretich » Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:31 am

Im not after anything particular. Im just trying to get some inspiration :)
Stereotactixxx wrote:Without an example of what you are after, it's difficult to get into specifics. However, what all dub chords have in common is that they are chords, and therefore you are going to need at least three oscillators tuned into a minor chord to begin with. Many dub chords have multiple oscillators per note, or at least a way of approximate that sound with a sawtooth animator, PWM or a chorus. Thereafter, just mix the oscillators into a LPF and modulate that with the same envelope that you use to modulate the VCA. Lastly, drench it all in high pass filtered delay and reverb, and voila, you are done.
alright I'm gonna try this :) ill let you know what it sounds like.

User avatar
stk
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 6845
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:47 pm
Location: rat city .au

Post by stk » Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:40 am

Got Reaktor?

viewtopic.php?t=83281

Yr welcome! :sb:

merretich
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 462
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:11 pm

Post by merretich » Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:45 am

no i don't have reactor. Ive got a modular. So what vibe tried is tuned three oscillators. They are playing a minor chord. two doepfer ones and one intellijel dixie. I took three sines into a VCA then into a low pass from doepfer and after into a high pass from doepfer. But it doenst sound smoothy at all it. It sounds really dirty. Even though i put some erb verb from make noise over it (i normally like nearly every sound with a bit of reverb behind it)

How can I get it less dirty? Do i have do better tuning or should i sync all the oscillators?

merretich
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 462
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:11 pm

Post by merretich » Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:48 am

I've just tried to sync them and it doesn't make it better: Im gonna try a different filter.

merretich
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 462
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:11 pm

Post by merretich » Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:25 am

it sound better now through the korgasmatron from intellijel. but it still doesn't sound dubby like the dub chords i hear in some reggae or even dub techno songs.
Im not looking for anything particular but still it isn't a sound which pleases me right away.

User avatar
sduck
experimental use of gravity
Posts: 13691
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:03 pm
Location: Vortepexaion, TN, USA

Post by sduck » Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:29 am

Any cheap poly keyboard that has a clavinet sound. Using a modular for this is overkill.
flickr cloud of sound touyube NOT A MODERATOR ANYMORE

User avatar
stickmann
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 277
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:50 am
Location: Land of Enchantment

Post by stickmann » Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:36 am

Use Saw waves (anything other than sines, no harmonic content to filter), not synced, through a filter. Same as others have said, three oscillators tuned to a minor chord. Have the filter cutoff low and send a short envelope to trigger cutoff input and your VCA. Typically for this I have a shorter envelope for the filter and a slightly longer envelope to open the VCA. Add some gratuitous delay and slow modulation to either the same low pass filter or, better, another high pass filter. Modulate levels, cutoff freq, and delay feedback manually or with any modulator of your choice.

This is what the kids like to call a deadmau5 chord. Examples of what you're trying to do would help.

merretich
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 462
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:11 pm

Post by merretich » Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:56 am

repost
Last edited by merretich on Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

merretich
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 462
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:11 pm

Post by merretich » Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:56 am

stickmann wrote:Use Saw waves (anything other than sines, no harmonic content to filter), not synced, through a filter. Same as others have said, three oscillators tuned to a minor chord. Have the filter cutoff low and send a short envelope to trigger cutoff input and your VCA. Typically for this I have a shorter envelope for the filter and a slightly longer envelope to open the VCA. Add some gratuitous delay and slow modulation to either the same low pass filter or, better, another high pass filter. Modulate levels, cutoff freq, and delay feedback manually or with any modulator of your choice.
This is what the kids like to call a deadmau5 chord. Examples of what you're trying to do would help.
this is something that comes to comes to my mind is for example deep cord.

User avatar
ndkent
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3649
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:59 am

Post by ndkent » Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:04 am

A chord is definitely 3 oscillators, no way of getting around that unless you use some sort of sample in a single sample playback module.

No there is no magic wavefolder or animator that will reliably turn one oscillator into 3 playing the 3 pitches you want.

Probably best for someone to hear an example of what you are thinking of. I guess in my mind dub has both delay and reverb.

Filters don't have much of a good effect on sine waves. If you are getting a dirty sound my guess is the filter is being overloaded by a high amplitude mix of your oscillators, which in one respect you can hear your filters working, just not doing what you expect them to do. Were you to lower the levels going into the filter I'd guess the dirtyness would go away, unless it's one of those dirty all the time filters, but if it's not you hit the issue of sinewaves not having the content to filter. Ideally you want richer waveforms and the filter tracking the general pitch of your chord, I know you can't send one filter 3 pitch CVs, but say you have waves with more harmonics and you send the filter the pitch cv of one note you'd have typical results of a (non-sine) synth bass

User avatar
BugBrand
Knowledge of Bugs
Posts: 7289
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:59 am

Post by BugBrand » Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:22 am

Volca Keys (creatively clocked from your modular) could well be an interesting/fun/cheap starting block. I guess it can be done in modular, but... perhaps it is massive overkill.

User avatar
ben_hex
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 6723
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 12:58 pm
Location: West Yorkshire, England

Post by ben_hex » Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:25 am

Modular really is overkill for it but can be fun and I enjoy chords in my modular sometimes. But definitely not sines. Richer waves work well. I've found oscillators - mixer - VCA (with AMP envelope control) - then filter works really well. So it's volume envelopes pre filter and get a static filter with a nice resonant bump. That before a lush reverb does the trick.

Still I think you'd be best sharing a link to a track/example so it can be broken down properly.
All DivKid video series to be found here!
http://www.youtube.com/divkidvideo

User avatar
stickmann
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 277
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:50 am
Location: Land of Enchantment

Post by stickmann » Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:33 am

Love that Deepchord track.

Try using 3 saw or pulse wave oscillators. You might be able to get close with just 2 oscillators. The key to that sound in the track is the high pass / band pass filter modulation. There is the fast vibrato and also the slow, ever changing modulation on the filter. The delay makes it interesting.

Deepchord uses a lot of dub / reggae mixing techniques and a lot of the sound your hear from them is because they process their tracks to get that "dub sound". Here is a link that they mentioned for some techniques they used:

http://www.interruptor.ch/dub.shtml

User avatar
stickmann
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 277
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:50 am
Location: Land of Enchantment

Post by stickmann » Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:37 am

Forgot to mention that it sounds like there is also some Phaser effect action with the delay. If you have access to a phaser effect unit, try that out as well.

User avatar
listentoaheartbeat
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2587
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:42 am
Location: Berlin

Post by listentoaheartbeat » Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:08 am

Just take any minor chord to a BP filter with fairly pronounced resonance. You'll need more than just one VCO to create a chord. Both dyads and triads can get you there. It's very common to sequence / modulate the BP filter frequency instead of the actual VCO pitches which make up the chord. In many classic examples the chord is not changed at all, it's just the filter. Feed it to tape echo + spring reverb. A touch of saturation at various points in the signal chain does not hurt either. Various different filters in chains or in parallel will give you more options for animation, especially if you combine them with a few different stages of saturation / non-linearity.
Last edited by listentoaheartbeat on Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
alternating.bit
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3133
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:27 am
Location: East Coast, USA

Post by alternating.bit » Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:13 am

[video][/video]

User avatar
FetidEye
demonic space drone
Posts: 2088
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:00 pm
Location: Red Zone
Contact:

Post by FetidEye » Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:19 pm

i was also inspired by this thread, so i made some dubtechno:

[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/158305094" params="auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true" width="100%" height="450" iframe="true" /]


555-osc + anti + DDO make the chord sound, filtered by a Doepfer A121 highpass.
2x MN PP's do the pitches. (i use the PP to change the chord clusters manually)

The echo and delays: EKO + Jellyfish + music thing Spring

Percussion: Barton drum and Jupiter Storm, sequenced by RCD

User avatar
stk
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 6845
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:47 pm
Location: rat city .au

Post by stk » Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:42 pm

Apart from what everyone else has said (three oscillators / notes into lpf) you also need to consider the actual intervals you are tuning them to (min 7th chord is pretty classic dub techno) and the post treatment fx (typically phaser, verb, delay, maybe another filter).

funkwar
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:28 pm

Post by funkwar » Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:55 pm

Put a warm Pad into a Vocoder (i.e. MAM VF-11) as Carrier.
Take a deep Bassdrum or Percussion Sound and use it as the "Voice-Signal" of the Vocoder. Delay and Reverb to taste..
(I did this with Juno 106/JX3P, TR-606, MAM VF-11, and of course, some Outboard FX quite a few times)

You'll get a punchy Envelope in the Frequency-Bands belonging to Voice- and Carrier-Channels. Blend into the Original Carrier-Signal a little to make it softer if you like.
Use a decent reverb.
:bacon:

User avatar
tonepanic
Common Wiggler
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:20 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Post by tonepanic » Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:39 am

To those who said modular is "overkill", think about it this way, if you have the same chord repeating over and over again, doesn't it seem that modular would be a great way to keep things interesting? I'd personally love to hear more modular dub techno.

So, as far as ideas go, I'd say this is the time to bring out your more noisy modules. You can try to create something similar to tape hiss like in alternating.bit's video, or possibly rely on modules that are naturally noisy. The Doepfer BBD is great for this because it doesn't have built-in filters so you can sculpt the noise with your own filters. If you have any 8/12-bit digital oscillators or wave shapers, you can potentially use the noise floor on those to your advantage as well.

Phasers are great (especially in conjunction with the noise), but I'd also add that notch filters can make things pretty interesting as well, as they can shift around the sound a bit without destroying the overall characteristic.

Once you have the right texture in place, I think you'll find that generation of the actual chords is not very tricky, and you can get all sorts of interesting results just by doing some basic filtering and sound shaping.

User avatar
listentoaheartbeat
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2587
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:42 am
Location: Berlin

Post by listentoaheartbeat » Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:47 am

I don't think a modular is overkill for this at all, it just enables you to take it to the next level compared to a fixed monosynth: Different processing chains for each VCO, complex filter routings and lots of modulation..

jhonlift
1-Post Wiggler
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:23 am

Post by jhonlift » Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:24 am

Hello how are you
your site is very interesting i am very impress for your blog your TOYS is very good i am also used these shoes please share a more blog
thanks

[url=http://coastalexport.com/toys[/url]

Post Reply

Return to “Modular Synth General Discussion”