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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

ARP 3620 clone project
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 14, 15, 16  Next [all]
Author ARP 3620 clone project
gruvsyco
Sweet! I've got a Fatar 37 key waiting and it looks like the 1601s are imminent. Hopefully, the 3620s are not too far behind. I've got a sheet metal design in the works to make an all in one TTSH/1601/3620 37 key monster.

hyper
JanneI
Good news! I'm interested!
dingebre
gruvsyco wrote:
Sweet! I've got a Fatar 37 key waiting and it looks like the 1601s are imminent. Hopefully, the 3620s are not too far behind. I've got a sheet metal design in the works to make an all in one TTSH/1601/3620 37 key monster.

hyper


I'm really sorry, but the 37 note keybed uses a different connector wiring and won't work with this decoder board. This decoder will work for 49 and 61 note keybeds only.

David
gruvsyco
dingebre wrote:
gruvsyco wrote:
Sweet! I've got a Fatar 37 key waiting and it looks like the 1601s are imminent. Hopefully, the 3620s are not too far behind. I've got a sheet metal design in the works to make an all in one TTSH/1601/3620 37 key monster.

hyper


I'm really sorry, but the 37 note keybed uses a different connector wiring and won't work with this decoder board. This decoder will work for 49 and 61 note keybeds only.

David


Awww cry
dingebre
Quick update. I got my order for the decoder PCBs, and they had errors. Short version, I have placed a new order with a different manufacturer and should have them in hand in 2-3 weeks.

David
JanneI
dingebre wrote:
Quick update. I got my order for the decoder PCBs, and they had errors. Short version, I have placed a new order with a different manufacturer and should have them in hand in 2-3 weeks.

David


Any news on this fatar decoder project? Thanks!
dingebre
JanneI wrote:
dingebre wrote:
Quick update. I got my order for the decoder PCBs, and they had errors. Short version, I have placed a new order with a different manufacturer and should have them in hand in 2-3 weeks.

David


Any news on this fatar decoder project? Thanks!


Sorry, I have the decoder PCBs and will get a purchase page on my website soon.

Is anyone interested in the relay PCBs? I have designs for single buss and dual buss that should accommodate Steiner Duophonic (tested working), ARP 3620, Aries 313, Moog 952, and Minimoog. I tried to implement options to deal with some of the extra circuitry that the ARP and Aries adds to the keybed buss itself.

David
dingebre
Yes, finally. I remembered to add the page to my website. If you purchase one, I'll have to email you the documents. I have not made time to put them together, sorry.

http://analoguerealities.com/projects/fatar-keyboard-decoder/

PM or email with any questions or comments.

David
solar1
Hello Folks,
It's been awhile since I've looked in on this thread.

I wanted to check in with the group to see if there is anyone interested in a 61 note Pratt Read keyboard for use with their 3620 project.
I seem to remember some folks were looking for a suitable keyboard assembly for their project.

If there is interest, I will offer it here on the Muff Wiggler first in order to give our group first opportunity to complete their 3620 project.
I understand this thread is not for buy/sell. I just wanted to see if there is any interest at all.

For those folks whom may question the extended range being an issue concerning the added CV resistors, I can tell you that I used a 61 note board and it is working fine. Calibration was successful.
Thanks
JanneI
What's the status of this project, Fatar keybed + 3620? I would like to build it if there's a pcb for Fatar decoder that works with the 3620 project. Thanks!
dingebre
JanneI wrote:
What's the status of this project, Fatar keybed + 3620? I would like to build it if there's a pcb for Fatar decoder that works with the 3620 project. Thanks!


The current FATAR decoder PCB works with either a 49 key or 61 key keybed. The dual reed relay PCB I designed was designed primarily with the Moog 952 and ARP 3620 keyboards in mind. The FATAR PCB fits nicely, if a little tight, between the mounting studs on a typical FATAR keybed. The dual reed relay PCB (needed for the dual buss ARP keybed) is bigger than the decodere PCB and may need some thought about where it can be placed. I'm not sure if jhulk redisgned the relay PCB or not. It's big enough that it's a little expensive to make and I've had a little trouble finding a reasonably priced PCB manufacturer who can handle the relay PCBs. I had a few prototypes made at OSH Park and I'm happy to make the project public if anyone wants.

David
JanneI
dingebre wrote:
...and I'm happy to make the project public if anyone wants.


hmpf.. I'm a little confused who's selling exactly what and which pcb's are needed. I already have a couple of Fatar keybeds (3/4/5 octave versions) but for completing 3620 build with Fatar keybed I'll need: keybed, decoder pcb, "main 3620 pcb", what else? Thanks!
dingebre
JanneI wrote:
dingebre wrote:
...and I'm happy to make the project public if anyone wants.


hmpf.. I'm a little confused who's selling exactly what and which pcb's are needed. I already have a couple of Fatar keybeds (3/4/5 octave versions) but for completing 3620 build with Fatar keybed I'll need: keybed, decoder pcb, "main 3620 pcb", what else? Thanks!


Hi,

This is not sarcasm, but what you need depends on what/how you build it. You need the keyboard electronics (PCB, parts, panel), a keybed, and a case.

If you use a dual buss Pratt Read keybed or a NOS Kimber Allen organ keybed, you don't need any additional keyboard stuff except for the precision resistors for the ladder and the resistors for the gate switches.

If you want to use a modern FATAR matrix type, you will need a way to take the FATAR data, decode it, and then drive some sort of switch array so that you get an independent switch closure (well, two switches to emulate the dual buss for the ARP electronics) for each key press. The solution I pursued uses reed relays arranged so that the CV relay closes first and then also closes the GATE reed relay switch so the CV voltage is set first, then the GATE is output.

The FATAR decoder PCB that is on my store works great. Jhulk may also sell them at some point as he helped tremendously in its layout and design. Roman Sowa designed the circuit and generously put it in the public domain (long story here, for a different post. Thank you Roman!!!). This PCB works with a 4 or 5 octave keybed only.

You then need another PCB that has your "switches". I have just a copule of spare dual buss emulating PCBs that use reed relays configured as I described. As much as I tried to pack the parts on the PCB, it's still kind of big. I have photos in an earlier post, maybe a couple of pages back. Depending on your case, you may have to be creative on where you mount it. The decoder PCB fits between the mounting studs and under a FATAR keybed (you may need to add spacers under the keybed to give a little more vertical room), but the relay PCB won't fit between the mounting studs.

All I know for sure is I am selling the decoder PCBs actively on my web store, and like I said, I think I have one or two spare relay PCBs. For the other stuff, you'll have to look back through this thread to see who is doing what, sorry.

David
Kipling
Hi all

I had intended to produce another small batch of the 3620 PCB and panel sets some time ago but so far have not, principally because several parts are now obsolete and/or getting hard to find and expensive.

I believe Jammie (jhulk) is working on a new version with modern parts with extra features. He doesn’t visit here these days but you can find him on FB as Logan Soloman. He posts under his Wife’s FB account as he doesn’t have an account of his own.
fuzzbass
One of my TTSH commissions has obtained the PCB/Panel for this project, and has asked me to integrate a connector for it on the TTSH.

The OP here shows a six conductor + shield interface connector. Are these the suggested signals/lines:

1. 0 volts
2. +15V
3. -15V
4. Lower CV
5. Gate CV
6. Trigger CV

Also, is the connector type shown available at retail?
LED-man
https://www.reichelt.de/microphone-coupler-for-radio-devices-6-pin-m-6 06-p11164.html

And

https://www.reichelt.de/microphone-panel-connector-for-radio-equipment -6-pin-b-606-p4548.html

Microphone technology
memristor
I am looking for a 3620 board/panel set.

There is a board on oshpark, but it is a bit pricey at $273 due to the square inch costing. The picture show JR Daniels, rev 2.

Please tell me if you can, what are the hard-to find/expensive components for that board revision?
Kipling
memristor wrote:
I am looking for a 3620 board/panel set.

There is a board on oshpark, but it is a bit pricey at $273 due to the square inch costing. The picture show JR Daniels, rev 2.

Please tell me if you can, what are the hard-to find/expensive components for that board revision?


The PCB price is way too high - my original batch of four cost around £60 (GBP) if I recall from a local PCB manufacturer, so with the gerber files you should be able to get a one-off made somewhere for a fraction of that price. The files are posted somewhere in this thread.

I have my original hand-made panel available for a nominal sum plus postage. I think there are pictures of it earlier in the thread with the white lettering.

The obsolete parts are 2N5459, 2N5461 and 2N3958, all of which can be found with a little searching.

The toggle switch is a Mouser part # 633-M2044TNW01 and the paddle 633-AT4149A which are in stock.

It needs two polycarbonate 0.47uF capacitors with 22mm lead spacing (Philips or Wima MKC 344 ideally). I have a number of these and will throw a couple in if you buy the panel, along with a six-pin panel connector and line socket.
dingebre
Kipling wrote:
memristor wrote:
I am looking for a 3620 board/panel set.

There is a board on oshpark, but it is a bit pricey at $273 due to the square inch costing. The picture show JR Daniels, rev 2.

Please tell me if you can, what are the hard-to find/expensive components for that board revision?


The PCB price is way too high - my original batch of four cost around £60 (GBP) if I recall from a local PCB manufacturer, so with the gerber files you should be able to get a one-off made somewhere for a fraction of that price. The files are posted somewhere in this thread.

I have my original hand-made panel available for a nominal sum plus postage. I think there are pictures of it earlier in the thread with the white lettering.

The obsolete parts are 2N5459, 2N5461 and 2N3958, all of which can be found with a little searching.

The toggle switch is a Mouser part # 633-M2044TNW01 and the paddle 633-AT4149A which are in stock.

It needs two polycarbonate 0.47uF capacitors with 22mm lead spacing (Philips or Wima MKC 344 ideally). I have a number of these and will throw a couple in if you buy the panel, along with a six-pin panel connector and line socket.


Mouser has 32 2N3958 in stock, pricey smile
https://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine?Keyword=2N3958

You can get the Linear Systems brand from Trendsetter Electonics for about 1/3 the price compared to Mouser
https://www.trendsetter.com/Transistor-p/ls3958%20to-71%206l.htm

Jameco has the 2N5461 and 2N5459
https://www.jameco.com

With Kipling's permission, I also have a Front Panel Express file for the panel I can post. A little expensive, about $110.00 USD, but you can also edit the file to accommodate which ever plug you want, or use a cable gland with a hard wired cable to the keyboard. I have it with both new and old ARP logos, gray or black.

David
MrRoper
memristor wrote:
I am looking for a 3620 board/panel set.

There is a board on oshpark, but it is a bit pricey at $273 due to the square inch costing. The picture show JR Daniels, rev 2.

Please tell me if you can, what are the hard-to find/expensive components for that board revision?


I was also looking for a pcb, so perhaps if it's convenient and want to split the costs of getting a couple made up please PM. Was thinking about trying to etch but never done double sided before.
Jaytee
Osh Park is simply a bad choice for a project like this. Their pricing is oriented toward very small boards; anything more than a few square inches gets real expensive, real quick.

That said, it wouldn’t be too hard to do a small run of PCBs/panels from a more traditional PCB fab. The PCB fabs don’t make quite as nice of panels as folks like FPE, but they’re “good enough” and much cheaper.

I’m in the US and could probably be coaxed into running a group buy for these if there’s interest. Let me know and I can get some rough quotes.
fuzzbass
One of my TTSH commission customers has asked me to add a connection for the 3600 series keyboard. The build has a gate booster embedded in the standard way, as documented here: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1789587.

Bringing the 3600 gate to the input of the Booster would result in loss of multiple trigger capability. Tying the gate and trigger CV outputs from keyboard and booster together at the TTSH inputs would not adequately isolate those outputs from each other.

I have devised a simple circuit that will merge the gate and trigger CVs coming from both the 3600 and the booster, using OR gates. This is a simplified drawing that omits the required 100n decoupling caps and 1u power rail caps.


Here it is built on a breadboard style protoboard. I used 1M input resistors and a CD4071 (quad, two_input OR gates). Notice all unused CD4071 inputs and outputs are tied to ground. The decoupling cap for VDD on the CMOS chip is hiding under the big orange jumper.

MrRoper
Jaytee wrote:
Osh Park is simply a bad choice for a project like this. Their pricing is oriented toward very small boards; anything more than a few square inches gets real expensive, real quick.

That said, it wouldn’t be too hard to do a small run of PCBs/panels from a more traditional PCB fab. The PCB fabs don’t make quite as nice of panels as folks like FPE, but they’re “good enough” and much cheaper.

I’m in the US and could probably be coaxed into running a group buy for these if there’s interest. Let me know and I can get some rough quotes.


I'm certainly interested a pcb if the groupbuy happens although im based in the UK

Also that's amazing work Fuzzbass! I'm actually looking to add a gatebooster to my TTSH at some point so this is great info to have when I get my 3620 working again. Thanks!

Dan
Quadram
I'm also interested in a pcb if there a groupbuy.

thanks Fuzzbas for this circuit applause
fuzzbass
Quadram wrote:
I'm also interested in a pcb if there a groupbuy.

thanks Fuzzbas for this circuit applause


I only have one request for this, so unless there is a groundswell of interest here, it does not make much sense for me to take this past the prototype.

However, if you want to make a little board for it, you have my permission so long as you give attribution. Rockin' Banana!

I also experimented with a concept for incoming pitch CV from the keyboard (CV1 in this case). By adding a high accuracy CV summing circuit and a DPST switch, it is possible to select the function of the KBD-CV jack a. insert (interrupt CV1) or b. sum (mix with CV1). For example, in sum mode, with both the 3620 and 1601 connected, use the keyboard to transpose the sequence. The utility is not limited to the 3620; any configuration where the pitch CV source is internal (ex: MIDIImplant) could benefit.

I built a summing mixer using 1K .1% resistors and a TL072 (two inverting unity gain stages) with the final feedback resistor a 2K multi turn trimmer. I got accuracy down to ~5 cents - OK but not good enough for Donald Fagen. It could probably be improved using the OP285 op amp. Since I see my little line of TTSH building sunsetting here, I probably won't take this past the drawing stage. I don't mind sharing the drawing, if you are interested.
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