shnth - fish manual

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bartlebooth
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shnth - fish manual

Post by bartlebooth » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:45 pm

in the other shnth thread there was a request for a copy of the fish manual, i thought it best to post it in its own thread so future shnth users can find it easier. please feel free to follow up with any questions.
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mrbloor
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Post by mrbloor » Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:30 am

Thank you very much, just scored a used shynt, had a little spin last night, got stumped very quickly.
Loaded some example program's and really liked the sounds, so this will be very useful indeed.
I love the tetrax and sidrassi, this is my first bit of zero & ones and I really want to understand this thing.

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Post by wednesdayayay » Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:12 am

This is a great place to start for anyone wanting to get aquatinted with fish

I felt like I had a good grasp but reading over still helps

I wonder what kind of electrical demons grow due to neglect

I've been thinking about trying to score a used one to rehouse

Are there any differences between the first and second batches of sale shnths?
sh is the sound of data
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chorus7
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Post by chorus7 » Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:14 am

What I loved and miss on my Shnth over my Tetrax is the variable envelopes... You could get a Tet style sound but with super long fade outs when you released your finger... And fade in's... But unfortunately the programming got me... I have the patience of a gnat and very little time in the studio which was my down fall... But knowing me I'll be getting one again and maybe the third time will be the charm...

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Post by mrbloor » Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:28 am

chorus7 wrote:What I loved and miss on my Shnth over my Tetrax is the variable envelopes... You could get a Tet style sound but with super long fade outs when you released your finger... And fade in's... But unfortunately the programming got me... I have the patience of a gnat and very little time in the studio which was my down fall... But knowing me I'll be getting one again and maybe the third time will be the charm...
It was a bargain price in the EU so didn't have to pay tax on it. Seemed rude not to try one, although I'm gonna dip in lightly as to avoid it taking over the other CL gear.
It might grow on me, so far I have got totally baffled, had it freeze and loaded a really nice zither patch which is staying for the time being. Might just record some zither through an 'unfortunate chain of effects' for GOL :tu:

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adamon
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Post by adamon » Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:35 pm

Are there any differences between the first and second batches of sale shnths?
I've got one from the second batch and it has an extra audio-in jack on the "front side" (aka opposite the side with all the other jacks...) that is simply in line with the built-in mic (it's a switching jack so it cuts the mic when something is plugged in).

I'm getting ready to (finally :despair: ) start sharing my shnth experiences so far and will be uploading several "shnthprlorations" videos this weekend.

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Post by wednesdayayay » Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:53 pm

cool update! I may have to pick another one up some day as I'd love using the shnth as an aux effect in my mixer
sh is the sound of data
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Post by diasporos » Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:00 am

wednesdayayay wrote:cool update! I may have to pick another one up some day as I'd love using the shnth as an aux effect in my mixer
How do you do that!? It's a world of possibilities.
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Post by wednesdayayay » Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:59 am

Well im going on the information that the new shnth version has a switchable wind input. It is either the mic or an input jack. This way you can plug the aux send into the input of the shnth and the output would go to the aux return. I would imagine the new input is mono or stereo summed to mono but since the shnths output can be mono or stereo depending on your cables and fish bowl (patch) you could set it up a in a myriad of different ways.

Two shnths and two aux sends for some fun squish able filtering to re stubify my coco :bacon:
sh is the sound of data
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Post by Paranormal Patroler » Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:37 pm

Any chance we can upgrade our old version Shnths?

Oh and bartlebooth, thanks a lot for the manual. Still reading up on what I've printed so far so this is next in line.
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Post by wednesdayayay » Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:47 pm

There was talk of being able to mod the version 1 shnths for an input rather than mic but I am still too much of an electronic shyguy for that.
sh is the sound of data
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Post by Paranormal Patroler » Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:48 pm

If there is a how-to I will most definitely try it.
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adamon
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Post by adamon » Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:30 pm

It wouldn't really be feasible to do it as an "upgrade" as its a board mounted jack (so its a new footprint on the board).

Just hand wiring an external jack wouldn't be too difficult, but it may be somewhat inconvenient to figure out where to mount it/let it hang. Mic's or cables generally would just require changing two leads/wires. Having it be switching like the new one would also require rewiring the existing mic if you intended on using both.

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Post by krz » Mon Nov 10, 2014 4:13 pm

[quote="adamon"]It wouldn't really be feasible to do it as an "upgrade" as its a board mounted jack (so its a new footprint on the board).

Just hand wiring an external jack wouldn't be too difficult, but it may be somewhat inconvenient to figure out where to mount it/let it hang. Mic's or cables generally would just require changing two leads/wires. Having it be switching like the new one would also require rewiring the existing mic if you intended on using both.[/quote]

Too bad it hasn't been (at the very least) technically addressed by Peter as opposed to "go at your own peril" and it appears C'sL focus has moved on. From what Peter said prior to the Shnth rollout - there was to be more support, and future features implementation forthcoming and unfortunately for whatever reason(s)- it is what it is and it will have to stand on it's own as it as originally built, not that that is a bad thing though. :) We just hoped there would be a bit more followup - as described initially by Peter.

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Post by bartlebooth » Mon Nov 10, 2014 4:22 pm

since the spring all new shnths do have an input jack..it wasn't feasible to do this on the original ones due to the pcb layout

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Post by wednesdayayay » Mon Nov 10, 2014 5:47 pm

I know peter still dreams of releasing a webcrawler shnth app :cry:

I think the shnth was a middle ground stepping stone into the euroland
prototyping in a way similar to monome

monome released a hardware device for software interaction with real feels


now they have a euro line with nicely community tested apps boiled down to single modules

the shnths operators are evolutions of previous CL works which are now being re-realized as euro modules

I hope the future of shbobo is not overshadowed by LFM, CL, tocante entirely

but if it is I'll know I have a piece of PB history

all that being said I still want two shnths on my mixers AUX sends

:goo: now that the new ones come with an input for [wind] that dream will be easier
sh is the sound of data
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Post by mrbloor » Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:10 pm

I figured by now wednesdayayay you would have replaced your mic with a piezo and taped it to a cymbal hung infront of a speaker :tu: something like that :hihi:

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Post by adamon » Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:48 pm

I too had a feeling that the new euro endeavors were built upon the basis of fish... its a logical progression (if Peter's work could ever be considered truly "logical".... :despair: in the best way possible of course :cloud: ). I often tried to explain my initial excitement for the shnth to my synth friends by using the opposite analogy: "Peter came up with all these great module ideas, but rather than just putting them all out as the euro flavor of the week, he figured out how to combine them into a completely novel, fresh realization(to me at least...) and changed my perception of what a single "instrument" can be..."

The thing that always pops up in my mind when I think about all of this is a comment that Peter made in that shnth in the uk video (that I know you've all watched just as many times as me :hyper: ): "you got knobs" and i totally do, a lot of them. I'm used to thinking about them as an integral part of electronic instruments; I feel like I think of them as i do about keys now. Keys are often considered a cliche part of "synthesizers" (at least in the modular realm...) seeing as many often try to draw clear lines with why they shouldn't always be associated with them (such as Subotnick's original ideas of what a synth should be...), however they have been and continue to be "around". I am certainly one who is just as happy to be sitting in front of a DX7 as I am in front of my modular system; I love the idea of different angles to it all. So getting back to the point at hand, I was truly inspired when I first saw that video and heard that comment. I realize this wasn't the first time anyone had ever conceived such an instrument, it was just the first time for me that I had contemplated such a question after having spent a decent amount of time around electronic instruments. I thought, hey Mr. B, you have a good point, what do i got? So I ordered a shnth and have been figuring it out :nana: The irony in it all to me now is to see Mr. B making more knobs... nothing against them, I'd probably get super :bacon: if a coco module wandered out, I just hope we get some other things now and then too :tu:

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Post by rovadams » Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:15 pm

I can relate to being overextended and wanting to work on the new project instead of continuing an old one, but I'm pretty disappointed in the documentation and resources for the shnth. Working in Fish is difficult compared to Max/MSP mainly because there's no way to learn that I've been able to find. What does Slave do, for instance? It's not in the manual and I've spent hours on the forums without getting any clue. There should be a complete manual, with all the opcodes, suggested numerical settings for the parameters, and a complete set of demo situations, and more of the tutorial videos. I appreciate what people have done (and the sharing of situations) but it really should be better. I've had a post of basic questions on the Shbobo forum for months that hasn't been answered, and I've got more questions that I'd like answered. I love the shnth for what I've been able to do with it, but I know there's a lot more that I can't get to yet, which is frustrating.

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Post by wednesdayayay » Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:10 pm

I just think of slave as a counter
you have an input to count (for instance a horn works well or wind) and the number to count to before sending changing states

most recently I used the trigger of a slave being driven by wind to toggle on/off a saw which was also being mul'd by wind (a bank of six of these)

deriving triggers from oscillations is slaves main goal as far as I see it

when putting a slave in a square you can make good trigger for a [wheel]



the shbobo forum isn't too active if you have shnth questions I would ask them here
sh is the sound of data
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Post by bartlebooth » Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:01 pm

slave can also be used as a pulse divider, a sub-oscillator and a staircase generator (put it in the num of a horn, for example)...also you can modulate the deno to make it 'divide by n'

sorry i didn't respond to your question on the shbobo forum, wednesdayay's right, there's much more activity here. anything else you wanna know please ask

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Post by glia » Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:07 pm

i wonder if anybody wants my shnth 1.0 so i can justify getting a new aux-in version

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Post by krz » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:40 am

[quote="bartlebooth"]since the spring all new shnths do have an input jack..it wasn't feasible to do this on the original ones due to the pcb layout[/quote]

So it is officially NOT recommended by Ciat Lonbarde to desolder the wind input and solder in a mono female auxilliary jack yourself is what I am reading? That's all we wanted to know. Modifications (as such) are NOT recommended. Ok. Good to know for future forum readers/those interested.
Thanks Bartlebooth. :] Been asking for awhile... :sb:

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Post by rovadams » Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:30 am

Thanks for the explanation, I think I get it now. I've been looking at Wednesdayayay's Horse patch - which is amazing, so many sounds can come from it - and it's tricky since it's so interconnected.

My old questions were:
1. Do the colors mean anything or are they random?
2. Does the order in a bowl matter, like should srate be first or can it be anywhere?
3. I found the Muff Wiggler forum, but I saw a reference to a Wiki that I haven't been able to find. Does that exist?
4. what happens if you have different num/deno on the same opcode in different locations?
5. Do numbers in Return bubbles do anything? as in dubtogo bowl 2
6. It happens fairly often that the shnth will freeze and won't load a new situation. I usually unplug it and plug it back in and it works then. Is that ok or should I be running an Orange Light Affair?

Many thanks - loving the shnth, used it in a Sun Ra tribute band this week and it was perfect.

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Post by bartlebooth » Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:34 pm

sorry this took so long, here you go:

1. the colors relate to the numerologic value of the patch (opcode numbers and parameter numbers). its pretty much an aesthetic thing

2. order doesn't matter, all that matters is what's inside the fish.. srate can be anywhere.

3. do you mean muff wiggler wiki or shbobo wiki? there is an old shbobo wiki from the chub daze but its not very relevant to shnth

4. you will get unpredictable results. technically its an 'error condition' but it won't hurt anything..sometimes these situations can be pleasing, if a little unstable.

5.return bubbles are like comments in regular code. you can use them as explanations or reminders.

6. orange light affair is the best way to reset the shnth, i recommend doing that.

cool, glad you're digging the shnth..i do ilke the idea of a sun ra tribute band!

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