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Make me care about [or at least respect] prog rock.
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Artist Discussion Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next [all]
Author Make me care about [or at least respect] prog rock.
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
OK, I'm confused. I really liked that Camel track "Lunar Sea", but I wouldn't call it prog rock. It's more like jammy fusion. I guess this just shows that prog rock covers a pretty large collection of sub-genres that ultimately don't have much to do with each other.

I went and listened to some earlier Camel ("Mystic Queen" from 1973), and it sounds more like old Pink Floyd, and more like the sort of fussy prog that I'm not too enamored with.

This music has very little to do with the likes of Yes or King Crimson. We really need some titles that are more descriptive than "prog rock" with which to differentiate some of these styles, I think. Of course, the problem with that is that many bands constitute their own genre.

Anyway, to further muddy the waters, here's one of my all-time favourite pieces of music in any genre, a through-composed piece which I think of as a Concerto for Lead Guitar. Enjoy:

JohnLRice
beyourdog wrote:
I came to the conclusion that I do not like Prog rock...

I can only listen to 2 King Crimson albums: Basically the first 2 ones. there is NOTHING in the discography of Yes and ELP that I can stand more than 2 minutes. Really, nothing. I am not arguing or giving judgment, I just do not like it.

I'm a big fan of the Floyd, Gong, Terry Riley, I love Amon Dull II though...
I find it really interesting to think about why people dislike (or like) certain things passionately. As you are probably aware, I passionately love prog rock, especially the major players like ELP, Yes, Genesis, Jethro Tull, Gentle Giant, King Crimson, etc etc.

When people say they don't like most or all of it, my first thought is "how can that be since these bands are very dynamic stylistically and there must be something they do that a person might like?" but, maybe that's the "problem"? Is it the high number of style elements and gear changing throughout an album and often within individual songs part of what doesn't sit right with some folks? If that's the case I can totally understand that, even though that's one of the things I like most about some of these bands.
beyourdog
JohnLRice wrote:
beyourdog wrote:
I came to the conclusion that I do not like Prog rock...

I can only listen to 2 King Crimson albums: Basically the first 2 ones. there is NOTHING in the discography of Yes and ELP that I can stand more than 2 minutes. Really, nothing. I am not arguing or giving judgment, I just do not like it.

I'm a big fan of the Floyd, Gong, Terry Riley, I love Amon Dull II though...
I find it really interesting to think about why people dislike (or like) certain things passionately. As you are probably aware, I passionately love prog rock, especially the major players like ELP, Yes, Genesis, Jethro Tull, Gentle Giant, King Crimson, etc etc.

When people say they don't like most or all of it, my first thought is "how can that be since these bands are very dynamic stylistically and there must be something they do that a person might like?" but, maybe that's the "problem"? Is it the high number of style elements and gear changing throughout an album and often within individual songs part of what doesn't sit right with some folks? If that's the case I can totally understand that, even though that's one of the things I like most about some of these bands.


I think you have a good point John, still, the main problem I have with Prog Rock,....

.... is that it makes me feel really uncomfortable when I'm Stoned....I think it resumes it all hihi w00t....prog rock is not for stoners... whistlin'

From my experience: Let's say, we're stoned, it's late, we listen to the Floyd, then somebody would stick Tarkus,....man, come on put back the Floyd...
JohnLRice
beyourdog wrote:
the main problem I have with Prog Rock,....

.... is that it makes me feel really uncomfortable when I'm Stoned....I think it resumes it all hihi w00t....prog rock is not for stoners... whistlin'

From my experience: Let's say, we're stoned, it's late, we listen to the Floyd, then somebody would stick Tarkus,....man, come on put back the Floyd...
I can totally understand that. thumbs up

And if you keep in mind that I don't really drink, never get stoned and when I 'party' my drugs of choice are sugar and caffeine hyper I'm sure you'll see why I likes the prog rawk! hihi
GeneralBigBag
JohnLRice wrote:

... Is it the high number of style elements and gear changing throughout an album and often within individual songs part of what doesn't sit right with some folks? If that's the case I can totally understand that, even though that's one of the things I like most about some of these bands.


That's definitely a big factor for me. It seems like a breadth-over-depth approach a lot of the time.

Also, I have listened to Genesis now, and they are extremely silly. That's the stuff I was making fun of in prog. Yes, not so much. I think I have learned something.
beyourdog
JohnLRice wrote:
beyourdog wrote:
the main problem I have with Prog Rock,....

.... is that it makes me feel really uncomfortable when I'm Stoned....I think it resumes it all hihi w00t....prog rock is not for stoners... whistlin'

From my experience: Let's say, we're stoned, it's late, we listen to the Floyd, then somebody would stick Tarkus,....man, come on put back the Floyd...
I can totally understand that. thumbs up

And if you keep in mind that I don't really drink, never get stoned and when I 'party' my drugs of choice are sugar and caffeine hyper I'm sure you'll see why I likes the prog rawk! hihi


Now it all make sense...if I may ask, do you like to wear leather trousers too ? hihi oops 8_)
JohnLRice
GeneralBigBag wrote:
JohnLRice wrote:

... Is it the high number of style elements and gear changing throughout an album and often within individual songs part of what doesn't sit right with some folks? If that's the case I can totally understand that, even though that's one of the things I like most about some of these bands.


That's definitely a big factor for me. It seems like a breadth-over-depth approach a lot of the time.

Also, I have listened to Genesis now, and they are extremely silly. That's the stuff I was making fun of in prog. Yes, not so much. I think I have learned something.


Here is a Genesis song some of you that don't like "jittery prog" hyper hihi might enjoy. It is quite beautiful and nice . . . just don't expect anything from it, just let it build, grow, ebb, flow and wash over you subtly through to the end.

Entangled
JohnLRice
beyourdog wrote:
JohnLRice wrote:
beyourdog wrote:
the main problem I have with Prog Rock,....

.... is that it makes me feel really uncomfortable when I'm Stoned....I think it resumes it all hihi w00t....prog rock is not for stoners... whistlin'

From my experience: Let's say, we're stoned, it's late, we listen to the Floyd, then somebody would stick Tarkus,....man, come on put back the Floyd...
I can totally understand that. thumbs up

And if you keep in mind that I don't really drink, never get stoned and when I 'party' my drugs of choice are sugar and caffeine hyper I'm sure you'll see why I likes the prog rawk! hihi


Now it all make sense...if I may ask, do you like to wear leather trousers too ? hihi oops 8_)
No, just a Tull approved leather cod piece! eek! It's motherfucking bacon yo
beyourdog
I love this:

beyourdog
JohnLRice wrote:
beyourdog wrote:
JohnLRice wrote:
beyourdog wrote:
the main problem I have with Prog Rock,....

.... is that it makes me feel really uncomfortable when I'm Stoned....I think it resumes it all hihi w00t....prog rock is not for stoners... whistlin'

From my experience: Let's say, we're stoned, it's late, we listen to the Floyd, then somebody would stick Tarkus,....man, come on put back the Floyd...
I can totally understand that. thumbs up

And if you keep in mind that I don't really drink, never get stoned and when I 'party' my drugs of choice are sugar and caffeine hyper I'm sure you'll see why I likes the prog rawk! hihi


Now it all make sense...if I may ask, do you like to wear leather trousers too ? hihi oops 8_)
No, just a Tull approved leather cod piece! eek! It's motherfucking bacon yo


lol hihi hihi hihi razz
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
Hey, beyourdog, I suggest you try on a little Aphrodite's Child, three (or four) very hairy Greeks, including Vangelis on keys, Demis Roussos on bass and vocals, and Lucas Sideras on drums. This was Vangelis's pop group from the late 60s and early 70s. They made a lot of very popular pop songs, and then, after they broke up, put out their apotheosis, called 666, joined by their buddy Anargyros (Silver) Koulouris on guitar. He couldn't be in the band before because he had to serve in the Greek army.

The idea of 666 is that a bunch of hippies are acting out the revelation of John, and then it actually starts happening outside the big tent. The music is, by turns, psychedelic and trippy, middle eastern world music, weird little pop ditties and tape effects, but the playing is uniformly excellent, and some of the songs are really good. Vangelis wrote all the music. Here's my two favorite tracks:

The Four Horsemen:


Aegean Sea:
kwaidan
Obliviously, Radiohead are familiar with Robert Wyatt, especially Rock Bottom.

Henry Cow Concerts with Slap Happy and Robert Wyatt is another favorite.

Hawkwind Space Rituals.
JohnLRice
beyourdog wrote:
I love this:

WhileI can appreciate the coolness of this, they aren't a group I ever got into and in general I don't listen to this sort of thing too often. But I'm sure with repeated listenings without too many distractions, I could totally fall in love with it (like a solo drive across the country with this as the only album to listen to etc! w00t )

You might really like Nectar based on this in case you haven't checked them out yet. These are my favorite albums:

Remember The Future


A Tab In The Ocean


The first half of this one is more JLR maybe and the second half is more beyourdog maybe ;-)
Recycled (parts 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6)

Recycled (parts 7 - 8 - 9)

Recycled (parts 10 - 11)
beyourdog
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
Hey, beyourdog, I suggest you try on a little Aphrodite's Child, three (or four) very hairy Greeks, including Vangelis on keys, Demis Roussos on bass and vocals, and Lucas Sideras on drums. This was Vangelis's pop group from the late 60s and early 70s. They made a lot of very popular pop songs, and then, after they broke up, put out their apotheosis, called 666, joined by their buddy Anargyros (Silver) Koulouris on guitar. He couldn't be in the band before because he had to serve in the Greek army.

The idea of 666 is that a bunch of hippies are acting out the revelation of John, and then it actually starts happening outside the big tent. The music is, by turns, psychedelic and trippy, middle eastern world music, weird little pop ditties and tape effects, but the playing is uniformly excellent, and some of the songs are really good. Vangelis wrote all the music. Here's my two favorite tracks:

The Four Horsemen:


Aegean Sea:


Thanks a lot, I know 666, I think we exchanged on it some weeks ago on another thread. I quite like their most trippy stuff ;-)
beyourdog
JohnLRice wrote:
beyourdog wrote:
I love this:

WhileI can appreciate the coolness of this, they aren't a group I ever got into and in general I don't listen to this sort of thing too often. But I'm sure with repeated listenings without too many distractions, I could totally fall in love with it (like a solo drive across the country with this as the only album to listen to etc! w00t )

You might really like Nectar based on this in case you haven't checked them out yet. These are my favorite albums:

Remember The Future


A Tab In The Ocean


The first half of this one is more JLR maybe and the second half is more beyourdog maybe ;-)
Recycled (parts 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6)

Recycled (parts 7 - 8 - 9)

Recycled (parts 10 - 11)


Thanks John, I have an LP from Nektar, I think this is the first album you mentioned, not bad but not a huge fan though.
beyourdog
I quite like this one:

JohnLRice
beyourdog wrote:
I quite like this one:

Oh yeah, I was gonna mention van der Graaf next! thumbs up I'm a very big fan!

I think this is a really good early live performance:
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
This ain't exactly prog rock, but it's awesome:

Pat Metheny and Lyle Mays -- As Falls Wichita, So Falls Wichita Falls



Here's another awesome thing from the minds of Pat Metheny and Lyle Mays:

Pat Metheny Group -- The Way Up



This is just part one of a suite which lasts over an hour. Get the original album. It is absolutely breathtaking. This is the album that amazes me the most for its sheer unparalleled musicianship. It ain't prog rock, but it ain't exactly jazz either. This piece is completely through-composed, with improvisation opportunities for Metheny and others. The score is 276 pages long. (Funnily enough, one critic referred to this as "Metheny's Topographic Oceans," implying, of course, that he'd totally lost the plot.)
JohnLRice
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
This ain't exactly prog rock, but it's awesome:

Pat Metheny and Lyle Mays -- As Falls Wichita, So Falls Wichita Falls



Oh yeah! I absolutely love this! love I was listening to this many years ago when I first got my first decent stereo with one of them new fangled CD players and it was so wonderful to sit in a dark room watching the glow of the gear and listening to things like this and the musical star stream radio show etc!
Qabeel
How about Richard Pinhas/Heldon?

French Fripp head whose early records had some Crimsonesque riffage, but often veered more towards the Fripp & Eno/Frppertronics side of things. Eventually started incorporating more synthesizer and electronic elements, but always kept a bit of "rock" edge ro the whole thing. Great stuff.

http://youtu.be/xQrDEgXoZsw
sduck
Just found this thread. I'm a major prog rock fan. And do a fair amount of reviewing, and curating compilations.

A great resource for prog fans is http://www.progarchives.com - they've got reviews of everything. And great customizable lists - like http://www.progarchives.com/top-prog-albums.asp?syears=2014#list

Haven't read the whole thread yet, may be back with some more contemporary suggestions. Believe it or not, some great prog is still being made - like The Flower Kings, Spock's Beard, Transatlantic, The Tangent, Wobbler, Anglagard, Univers Zero, Isildurs Bane, Pineapple Thief, etc.
JohnLRice
Speaking of newer things . . .










sduck
Good suggestions! The Steven Wilson is great - better than most of the PT stuff. I like that IQ album, but not as much as the last one, which I think is the best thing they've done. Never heard the other two, but like them both, and have added them to my emusic save for later list. Took a bit of research, but the RRR is apparently a reunion of sorts of Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, who if they haven't been mentioned in this thread already, they should have been, and have now.

Oh! Cheer Accident! Listen to them!



One thing I love about Cheer Accident is that they're so stylistically diverse - each album has a unique and distinctive sound.

And just about any of the other bands that played at that RIO festival, or any others of those. I love RIO stuff - Henry Cow, Art Bears, Von Zamla and such. One of my all time faves is Thinking Plague -



Some other names - Doctor Nerve, Don Caballero, Birdsongs of the Mesazoic, The Watch, Unifaun, Agents of Mercy, Karmakanic, Happy the Man - this is kind of a mixed up bunch, stylewise and agewise, just some names that popped out of my cd collection on a quick glance.
sduck
Oh, and reading back a bit - I find it surprising that the good Doctor doesn't like Gentle Giant! They're right up there with the stuff he professes to like - I suspect he just hasn't given them an unbiased listen. Please give them a fair shake!

GG existed in 2 different incarnations, with some overlapping people, but some key changes. This is version 2, which flamed out royally soon after this video - I saw them perform right around this period in Cleveland -

sduck
Oh, and Canterbury Scene stuff - I haven't seen mention of National Health, which in my opinion is the epitome of that style - Dave Stewart is one of the best keyboardists out there -

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