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Maths vs Envelator
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author Maths vs Envelator
dalasv
Yes, of course, you should just buy 10 of each, but which one should you buy first?

Could someone explain the differences between them?

I like to make drones that build to aggressive noise. Check my muxtape for examples.
J3RK
Well, one reason previously to get Maths first, was that the Envelator wasn't available. Now that it is, Maths isn't available (at least at AH,) so I guess now I would suggest getting an Envelator or two first. Mr. Green

Now I could see myself recommending things based on a few criteria. One Maths does more than one Envelator. Two Envelators would be like having more fully featured channels 1 and 4 of maths, and unless I'm missing something, the biasing features of channels 2 and 3 aren't available on the Envelators (though they have both positive and negative going outputs.)

I believe the range on the Envelator is also a lot larger than maths, (since it has the 10X pull switch.)

Otherwise, both cycle, both are nicely multifunction, and you really can't have too many cycling envs/slope generators...

I haven't received my Envelator yet, so I'll have to wait until I get it to go into any more detail.

I'll be running one of each, until I start making pairs of my Wiard/Malekko modules.
shamann
It depends a lot on what you want from a modular. I have a Maths, and have started a small system full of high density modules (each module can do a lot of things). If you're inclined towards that kind of system, I'd go with Maths first, because it can do an awful lot of stuff.

Otherwise, just go first with whichever you find more appealing, both in terms of form and function.
VanEck
I also intend on having one of each, but currently have none of each sad banana

I will probably get a Maths first, because it is a bigger investment and I am getting a decent tax refund. Then when I have some spare change, I will pair it up with the Envelator.
J3RK
I don't think you'll be disappointed with this approach. If I didn't have Maths right now, I wouldn't be able to do much. (I've been operating on 4 modules, while I wait for things to show up.) It's been the core of my system more or less, though a little less so now that the Noisering reached me. I could see a pair of Envelators doing the same thing for me (at same amount of HP too.) I suppose channels 2 and 3 come in pretty handy in a small system though.
suboptimal
I love the Maths. There are tons of powerful things you can do with it. It's the stuff in the middle of the module that makes it my choice over a pair of Envelators as a first buy - I find I use channels 2 and 3 quite a lot to modify the multed outputs of 1 and 4. The "or" and "sum" outputs are also really interesting to play with. I can't claim to be a master of any of this, but when I plug things into it nice things come out.

I have a pair of Envelators on order beacuse the more the merrier when it comes to voltage controlled envelopes, and these each have their strong points (and I love Malekko stuff in general). The Maths has some awesome added features that are really handy to have, though.

Can't go wrong with either.
J3RK
I also love the sum and or outputs. Yeah, I would agree, if you plan to get an Envelator anyway, and you want to get as much as possible going for you early on, grab Maths.
dalasv
Cool, thanks for the input, guys. I think I will continue trying to score a Maths. I can work on getting the Envelator later.
11ish
dalasv wrote:
... trying to score ... work on getting ...

help
--> https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12291
Monobass
my qmmg and maths should be arriving this week.. nanners It's peanut butter jelly time! Rockin' Banana!
Veqtor
THE ENVELATOR DOES NOT DO SLEW!

That means:
1) The envelator cannot work as a portamento modifier!
2) The envelator doesn't work as a filter
3) The envelator can't do funky waveshaping
4) The envelator can't be used as an evelope follower.

Additionally
1) The maths takes up the same space as two envelators, and adds two polarizers and Max and Sum outputs!
2) One of the maths slopes has end of attack, the other has end of cycle which gives you the possibilities of the 281 AND the Serge slope!
3) The maths has NON-LINEAR slopes!

The Envelator on the other hand:
1) Attenuators on cv inputs
2) Pull delay?
3) SQR input?

I have a maths, but I think I will get another one, if I'm done getting all the non-essential modules, I might pick up an envelator or two.

Why is portamento/slew so important? Well you can turn a s&h'ed noise into a slow random and loads of other funky things, but most important, you don't always need a portamento, and when you don't, you have a nice ad-generator at hand! thumbs up
ST UF FLI N EAR
i didnt know the price yet, Malekko just stated that the Envelator will be 185 USD.

edit.

d'oh!
i see its on AH's site
available 02.03.10
felix
FWIW, my take on it is this:

Envelator is a "pimp-ass" EG. Arguably the best in euro currently (although I have my own bias), and aside from ADSR, offers the most unique features for a single EG. It's purpose is to generate envelopes.

Maths, imo, is the ultimate function generator currently available for euro. Sure, of it can generate EGs like any function generator could, but it also offers OR and SUM of those functions, lag processing (or just external signal processing), scaling and inverting on function outputs as well as an arbitrary inputs (ch. 2 and 3). It's an extremely versatile CV generator/processor for its size.

If you're looking specifically for an EG, I don't think you can get much better in euro currently than what the Envelator has to offer. But if you're looking for a complex function generator/processor, then Maths is your ticket.

Or buy one of each and have both camps covered wink
MrTea
The envelator looks nice and definitely hits the spot on price, but it I think if you can afford it go with a maths. I just got mine and it's used on every patch. period.
dalasv
God, I want MATHS and QMMG so bad! They're the ones that made me finally give in and go down this modular path. THE GRAILS.

Wish me luck. Trying to let AH know that I want to get in line.
qu.one
Between the two, MATHS make more sense. It offers more for an extra $100.

Just to throw it out there - I prefer full voltage controlled ADSRs as opposed to AD or AR modules, especially when creating more musical type sounds. Neither of them are true ADSR envelopes.
porfiry
I can't wait until I have a bigger or second rack so I have room for a couple Envelators, but I have to say, my current setup would suck without the two Maths...surprising how many patches use a majority of their 8 channels. Those offsets are really, really useful, as is the slewing. I've had them for a couple months, but am still constantly realizing new uses...last night's patching epiphany was the use of channel 1 as audio processor. It's not real strong filtration, but can add some interesting texture when you modulate the fall input. There are about a million ways to patch the things back into themselves too...that's where the SUM/OR and the DC offsets get really interesting.

My big blinky twins definitely own the system. SlayerBadger!
Mr White
I own 2 MATHS and I die for them. every day I found a way to wire it for sure in every patch I do and here on muff new tricks shows up as mushrooms! SlayerBadger!
envelator seems the one that the M10 should have to be really...
I'll get one for sure but, by now, I feel better to point you into maths direction, much fun&features in a small package, x2!
grantrichter
Veqtor wrote:
THE ENVELATOR DOES NOT DO SLEW!

That means:
1) The envelator cannot work as a portamento modifier!
2) The envelator doesn't work as a filter
3) The envelator can't do funky waveshaping
4) The envelator can't be used as an evelope follower.

Additionally
1) The maths takes up the same space as two envelators, and adds two polarizers and Max and Sum outputs!
2) One of the maths slopes has end of attack, the other has end of cycle which gives you the possibilities of the 281 AND the Serge slope!
3) The maths has NON-LINEAR slopes!

The Envelator on the other hand:
1) Attenuators on cv inputs
2) Pull delay?
3) SQR input?

I have a maths, but I think I will get another one, if I'm done getting all the non-essential modules, I might pick up an envelator or two.

Why is portamento/slew so important? Well you can turn a s&h'ed noise into a slow random and loads of other funky things, but most important, you don't always need a portamento, and when you don't, you have a nice ad-generator at hand! thumbs up


Did anyone happen to notice that Tony Rolando makes the Wogglebug?
Tony is a talented guy, I'm not going to dish dirt on any of his products.

I'm not getting into some knob by knob comparison of an entire class of modues that do similar things. We have Maths, Envelator, Buchla 281, Serge Universal Slope Generator.

The Envelator has been shipping for 11 years. No one has ever complained about any lack of usefulness. And 10hp for $185, come on!
Cthulhu
Veqtor
Hi grant, I love your products in general, especially the wogglebug and the noisering and I'm REALLY looking forward to the Anti-Env!

The envelator however, well, there's a lot of envelopes and maths packs such a wide range of functionality! I would say it's definetly on 2nd place though, will have a pair when I have a larger setup. Diversity is what makes euro such a nice format.
charlie
Grant, you can count 2 anti-env for me and a Jag....


so.....work work work we're not worthy
SMACK! SMACK! SMACK!
J3RK
I now have both Maths and Envelator in my system, and now that I've used them together, I would not ditch one in favor of the other, nor one for a pair of another.

NoiseRing and Envelator combo is pure delight btw!
jenamu6
J3RK wrote:


NoiseRing and Envelator combo is pure delight btw!


Please elaborate ?
porfiry
I think pretty much everyone in here wants one of pretty much everything that comes out, sooner or later. In fact, most people probably actually OWN everything that comes out sooner or later, as much buy/sell/trade swapping as goes on. In my own case, I've already swapped a good half-dozen things in and out of my jam-packed 6u, but it won't be until I'm sporting more rows that I'll be able to get some Envelators in there.

EDIT: I have plenty of *other* Malekko in there though! nanners
J3RK
One example would be clocking everything from the Envelator, and then taking the second NR output, and running it into the DMod, and taking the neg Out, and clocking something else like Maths, or one of the Noisering input to shift the timing a bit. You could do this with Maths too, but it's nice for a little rhythmic shift.

I also whipped up a little drone with the Envelator going extra-slow, using the NoiseRing as the oscillator. Also tried taking the second output of the NR, running that into the Exp FM on the AO, and taking the Mayhem out, into the second Borg input. Got some nice grinding sounds doing that.

I only got to patch for about an hour, so I'll be doing a bit more with these tonight. Did get some interesting results in a short time though, which is nice.

I might also mention, that Maths can do similar things, but the Env frees it up to do combined tasks (cyclical things using both channels 1 and 4, etc.) Maths also doesn't have the same range as the Env for doing slow modulation. (unless I've missed some technique which is entirely possible since I haven't had it that long.)

It's also nice having the SQR Out for timing purpose (when it's cycling.) I was using the NoiseRing for this previously, but I don't always want everything running at the NR clock. (for example, if I've got it cycling very quickly, but want to trigger the Borg more slowly. (that's more a result of having a limited set of modules though) smile

http://home.comcast.net/~r3cogniz3r/WeeModular16.mp3 (this is just another rhythmic patch, but the Envelator is modulating FM on the AO, and the slopes on one channel of Maths, which in turn is modulating A or D on the Env. (can't remember off the top of my head)

(sorry for editing this in small chunks... at work right now... Mr. Green )
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