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Serge bongo?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Buchla, EMS & Serge  
Author Serge bongo?
karplus
Is there such a thing as a Serge low pass gate? Do Serge filters use vactorals?
mono-poly
nope the phaser does/did.
bartlebooth
Serge filters don't use vactrols though I believe the phaser uses them. AFAIK that's the only Serge module that does. The Serge version of the bongo sound comes from ringing the VCFQ with a trigger pulse. With different Q and freq settings and messing with what you put into the IN jack you can get a lot of interesting sounds from bongos to wooden logs. Not the same as the buchla bongo mind you but interesting nonetheless
xart
karplus wrote:
Is there such a thing as a Serge low pass gate?



http://www.serge-fans.com/wiz_SSG1.htm

5. Lowpass Filter/Lowpass Gate
Same patch as #1. Instead of patching a DC control voltage into the input, patch an audio source in, say, any PCO waveform.
Send SMOOTH OUT to your audio output path. Notice that the sound is more or less intact at 100% rotation of the Rate knob, and as you turn Rate counterclockwise the harmonics and harshness get filtered and Smoothed out. Keep turning Rate counterclockwise, the sound will disappear altogether.

So you can use this to filter harsh harmonics out of audio, or to create an unusual filtered effect. Use the VC rate knob and jack to make this filtering effect voltage controllable. You can employ this effect to create an audio Gate.

What's a Gate? A gate is a general name for a device that lets you either permit or close off an audio signal. That's usually what you use a VCA for, and VCA's are very high quality examples of gates. You can use this patch, especially under Voltage Control, as an unusual substitute VCA:
First, set the Rate knob at around 10 o'clock to 12 o'clock, just so your audio is no longer audible at the output.
Now send a note envelope from DSG, DTG, or Envelope Generator to the VC rate jack, with the VC rate knob turned sufficiently high. You are creating low quality unusual envelopes where the harmonics are varying with amplitude. Using harmonic rich input, you have an unusual effect. Using purer input such as sine or triangle wave yields a more usual or typical result. -John P.


Where is John P. at now-n-dayz? seriously, i just don't get it You can get his serge musicks on itunes- "m/n/m/l - perpendicular twist" good stuff.
Pockets McCoy
DSG's and DTG's with signal ins can also be patched as LPG's in the same way the Smooth section of the SSG can, you just have separate control over rise and fall times (it can also sound like anything BUT an LPG, so don't get discouraged!). They can also be used as a crazy waveshaper/who-knows-what-pass filter with the right settings on the rise and fall knobs, though I have no idea what's actually going on electrically (but it's still awesome), and they (and the SSG, I'm sure) can be patched for extremely unusual resonance (as in, if you're looking for a resonant filter sound, use a resonant filter) with the addition of a mixer.
cbm
I would love to hear an example of the Serge LPG equivalent. I've never heard anything out of a Serge that has that characteristic LPG sound.
kkonkkrete
I think some confusion occurs because people tend to use the term "low pass gate" in two different ways. Sometimes it's used to mean any module that closes sound off completely by low pass filtering (what xart quotes) and sometimes it's use to refer to a specific vactrol-based implementation of this idea, as found in Buchla, QMMG, and other modules.

In the first meaning, pretty much any VCF can be used as a low pass gate: just set the cutoff to zero and apply a positive going envelope. When the envelope gets back down to zero, all sound will be cut off. In this sense Serge is full of LPGs because the Slope and its derivatives can be used this way, the SSG can be used this way, the filters can be used this way .... and so on.

On the other hand this is the "boring" use of the term LPG. It is not the famous wooden-toned bongotastic ringing vactrol LPG sound associated with Buchla instruments. When people talk about the "LPG sound", it is this second meaning of the term, when the vactrol-based LPG rings. This does not exist per se in Serge systems.

OTOH, as mentioned above, there is the possibility of ringing the variable Q filter via the TRIG in, which releases a damped sine wave, where the duration of the damping depends on the resonance of the filter. This sounds somewhat like the Buchla "LPG sound", although it makes the sound in a different way. You can FM the frequency to get more interesting wave shapes, which gets you even deeper into Bongoland.

Hope this helps ...
mono-poly
cbm wrote:
I would love to hear an example of the Serge LPG equivalent. I've never heard anything out of a Serge that has that characteristic LPG sound.


That will always be like that due no vactrol being used.
The new Fenix GT got a lpg to but not based on a vactrol.
smitty
cbm wrote:
I would love to hear an example of the Serge LPG equivalent. I've never heard anything out of a Serge that has that characteristic LPG sound.


Provide a sample of what you want to hear from a Serge. That LPG sound you speak of so we know what your talking about. I don't think I've ever heard it.
bwhittington
xart wrote:

Where is John P. at now-n-dayz? seriously, i just don't get it You can get his serge musicks on itunes- "m/n/m/l - perpendicular twist" good stuff.


thumbs up Love that one! Particularly the ""Sun Shine" track.

Cheers,
Brian
cbm
As far as I know, Don Buchla invented the term "Low Pass Gate" to refer to the circuit embodied in the Buchla 292 Vactrol-based circuit in the late 1960s.

I'll put together a demo of a Buchla LPG next time I have a minute in the studio.
modularland
You can hear a demo of a track that heavily uses the Buchla Low Pass Gate (Cyndustries Quad Low Pass Gate) on this track... the very clear "wood" sound is the LPG

http://modularland.com/trax/woodblock.mp3
confusional
Redacted.
b3nsf
I have found that you can "smooth a gate pulse" with the Top half of the SSG and then route that smooth thwap voltage to a filter cutoff and then on with a stacked nana to the X-fade for vca duties... the combo is very electric and whip cracky! Mr. Green
modularland
FYI my secret is a very fast transient, not a gate signal, driving the LPG... both the Modcan and Cyndustries ADSRs have nice fast speeds hence the sounds you hear

also- I usually route through multiple LPGs in serial (min 2 max 3) to get the full bongo effect
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