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What sounds like a Plan B M15 osc?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next [all]
Author What sounds like a Plan B M15 osc?
ignatius
not so much all the same features but the basic buttery sponge like tone of it?

specifically the morph output. it just sounds so pleasing to my ears. smooth and rubbery.. BUTTERZONE!

is there another oscillator out there that comes close to that tone?

Asys RS95 maybe?

AFG's (from the demos i've heard) sound a bit more edgy and aggro. though i'm sure it is quite the chameleon.

the Z3000 is much more precise and sharper though i'm still getting to know it so maybe i can coax something more buttery out of it.

i don't know if i exactly "need" another M15 but i think i'd like one, or something like it, at some point.. one may be enough in the system though.

last night i was making some tones for sampling using the M15, E340 modcan oscillators and the M15 just added so much.
DrOctave
well wetterbug says the ulfo does i can not say dont have a m15
worker8
Forget the M15, think about an AntiOscillator.
REwire
The uLFO sounds the closest to me but you can't duplicate that Morph output with anything else I've seen. Crossfaders can imitate it but the M15 has a sweet spot I can't duplicate other ways.

Dan
Steevio
i think i know what you mean by buttery,

if i do, then yes the RS95E is buttery.

i have a Z3000 and a uLFO, and they are both crisp in comparison.

i like the FM on the Z3000, and almost as much on the uLFO but while the RS95E lacks the versatility of the other two, it sounds really smooth and warm in comparison.

ive never heard an M15 for real.
consumed
the m15 is my only triangle core vco and none of the others in the following list of have/had vcos have 'that' sound:

oakley vco v3
motm 300 vco
cwejman vco2rm
livewire afg
blacet vco
zeroscillator

i intend to build the thomas henry xr2206 based vco soon, which is also a triangle core design. im interested to see if there is a similar flavor between the two.
Monobass
well the bubblesound wrVCO is triangle core based... I'm sure there are people intending to try and fill the M15 gap...
ignatius
worker8 wrote:
Forget the M15, think about an AntiOscillator.


i love the sound of the M15. the anti oscillator is in another ball park completely. not a bad thing. just totally different.

anyway - thanks to all for the comments. thumbs up
Monobass
I'll probably regret suggesting this on here.... but Peter G should license his designs to someone reliable wink
dkcg
FMwise, nothing in euro is like the M15 from my experience, but the Z3000 FMs in a similar way as the M15, not quite as buttery, but still nice.

My opinions on:

AFG....nothing like the M15
Z3000....vaguely similar, but not as smooth Fmed
VCO-2RM...nothing like the M15, closer to the AFG than M15 IMHO
AntiOscillator...nothing like anything else, but a great FM source for the M15
RS-95...nothing like the M15, geared towards subtractive patches but the waveshaping makes it a great FM source.
Zeroscillator...great at FM, but sounds a LOT different than the M15.

uLFO...no idea, never used one.

Nothing is like the M15 in euro.
ignatius
dkcg wrote:
FMwise, nothing in euro is like the M15 from my experience, but the Z3000 FMs in a similar way as the M15, not quite as buttery, but still nice.

My opinions on:

AFG....nothing like the M15
Z3000....vaguely similar, but not as smooth Fmed
VCO-2RM...nothing like the M15, closer to the AFG than M15 IMHO
AntiOscillator...nothing like anything else, but a great FM source for the M15
RS-95...nothing like the M15, geared towards subtractive patches but the waveshaping makes it a great FM source.
Zeroscillator...great at FM, but sounds a LOT different than the M15.

uLFO...no idea, never used one.


thanks for the insights. even in typical subtractive patches the M15 sounds different and awesome when in its butterzone

dkcg wrote:
Nothing is like the M15 in euro.


that's kind of what i figured but thought it was worth asking anyways.

anyone have an M15 they are growing tired of? Mr. Green
consumed
ignatius wrote:
anyone have an M15 they are growing tired of? Mr. Green


yes (my "backup"), but its in the shop getting repaired, so not ready for sale quite yet.
wetterberg
dkcg wrote:
uLFO...no idea, never used one.

Nothing is like the M15 in euro.
sorry buddy, I lolled a bit there.

But yeah, you can get some kind of morph out of the uLFO but not the same thing as the m15, no. And it doesn't have vactrols in it at all, so you'd have to slew your controls a bit to mimmick that.
dougcl
wetterberg wrote:
but not the same thing as the m15


Wait, YOU have an M15? lol
ignatius
consumed wrote:
ignatius wrote:
anyone have an M15 they are growing tired of? Mr. Green


yes (my "backup"), but its in the shop getting repaired, so not ready for sale quite yet.


is it a MKII? PM me when/if you wanna sell it.

what went wrong w/it? who's repairing it?
wetterberg
dougcl wrote:
wetterberg wrote:
but not the same thing as the m15


Wait, YOU have an M15? lol
hehe, yes. I think it's a damned fine oscillator, despite its many, many quirks - and yes, I also appreciate the irony. Bought used, right from this very forum, so it has done good in its life.
dougcl
wetterberg wrote:
hehe, yes. I think it's a damned fine oscillator, despite its many, many quirks - and yes, I also appreciate the irony. Bought used, right from this very forum, so it has done good in its life.


Awesome.
Montag
Contrary to what's being said here, I think the Zeroscillator and the Model 15 are very similar- the main difference is that the ZO can get an even wider range of tones. Sure, it takes a lot of modulation sources and HP, but if you're looking for that sweet creamy tone and then some, I'd highly recommend a ZO.

Otherwise, I completely agree with the other comparisons above.
intellijel
What exact conditions/patches make the M15 really shine?

I have one and bought it a while ago based on the many positive reviews. Everytime I hint at not liking it I am instantly hit with many PMs of people who want to buy it from me. It has also been described in other threads as one of the closest modules to a Buchla 200 series VCO.

In my experience it does not track well, the jacks suck, pwm control is not right. On pure waveforms it is pretty warm compared to say the AFG or Z3000 but not that amazing. Also the Freq VC inputs are way too sensitive; the lightest deviation from center results in deep mod amounts. Everyone raves about the FM input but all I have found is that it sounds different not necessarily better to other modules.

All this makes me wonder if there are some key ways to use this module that I have not explored. Especially in the realm of FM I would like to know what I should use for source/routing that makes it really shine?

Are people using this for noise and sound design patches or for more musical applications?
ignatius
intellijel wrote:
What exact conditions/patches make the M15 really shine?



for me it's just the tone of it. i know it doesn't have the huge tracking range of other oscillators and has idiosyncrasies but to me it just sounds pleasing to the ears no matter what i do with it or to it. also, from what i've read there are issues w/calibrating etc and there are different versions as well as "who knows what peter did to this module?"

as far as jacks go.. haven't had any issues... but i think banana jacks are the only way to go so 1/8 is always a bit of a nagging hang-nailish like peeve. razz

but the jacks on the STG .BAM are awesome and so far best of all the euro stuff i have.
ndkent
Though I don't have one, I'd suspect the Verbos 258v is the closest built today simply because it's a clone of the Buchla 258 and the Model 15 was said to be an attempt to do a modern day 258.

I think the model 15 does have a special sound and the variable waveshape is brilliant because you can add harmonics by adding VC. A number of other modules vary waveshape but they don't add harmonics in a straightforward way (example the zeroscillator with it's own unique same amplitude but variable shape, useful in it's own way but not the same at all).

Critics are right that especially on older versions the pulse width is poorly implemented and I can't say I wind up using it often. But in general the waves have a very warm round sound that stands out from most VCOs.

Generally I'd say the the Zeroscillator is the ultimate for doing FM, it doesn't have such a full sound on it's own un-modulated. The AntiOscillator is interesting with chaotic abilities but does not sound like the M15 in any notable way at all. The uLFO might be the ultimate LFO out there, but it is an LFO and while it has cool features it's not going to do that Buchla-style wave transition or anything above midrange fundemental frequencies.
blungo2
This might sound silly, but has anyone compared the m15 to the cloud generator?

I sold my m15 before i got my cloud but if memory serves me right, there is something about the sound that is similaar. I mean with not cranking up the spread on the cloud of course.
intuitionnyc
Quote:
In my experience it does not track well, the jacks suck, pwm control is not right. On pure waveforms it is pretty warm compared to say the AFG or Z3000 but not that amazing. Also the Freq VC inputs are way too sensitive; the lightest deviation from center results in deep mod amounts. Everyone raves about the FM input but all I have found is that it sounds different not necessarily better to other modules.


Couldn't agree more. It sounds great, but everything else on it is sub-par in my opinion. I think M-15's were very popular not too long ago because you didn't have quite as many oscillators to choose from in Euro. Pre-AFG, the M-15 was a pretty decent Oscillator. However, with today's choices/competition in the oscillator department, manufacturers need to excel in sound, craftsmanship and customer service. Peter IMO failed miserably with the second two. And to be quite honest once more, the M-15 was the only module I really thought sounded great. Some of his filters were good, but nothing jaw-dropping.

If I were starting out a system today, an M-15 (should you be able to find one) would not even come close to my modules of interest. Even if they were still available. Only if I had a massive rack and wanted the M-15 for some specific reason would I be interested. There are way too many modules to chose from now that blow it away!!! (ex: Tip Top z3000, Macbeth Dual, Hertz Donut, AFG, uLfo, Cloud Generator, etc.) I know it's like comparing apples to oranges, but still, those are some of the choices.

Just my two cents. If you don't agree, I would love to hear it.
Hi5
if ones concern is a tracking/stable vco that is predictable then I would say stay away from the 15. you may even come across construction issues which was a common problem with Plan B. However, if you get a solid unit and the tracking is not an issue I do have to say the 15 is very unique in it's sound. I have/had/used 7 different euro vco and for an analog style unit it is one of my favorites and sounds really great when modulated. It has a meaty-ness to its sound that most other vco dont have. I have 2 of them and have not had any issues with either. sure the pwm could be scaled better but an attenuator solves this issue. never had any problems with the FM inputs either.
Peter's designs definitely focused more on how things sounded as oppose to precision. the 15 has a character to it and you if you come to terms with some of it's 'quirks' it can be a powerful vco. I would not get rid of mine unless there was some disproportionate compensation involved.
There are surely a lot more vco options these days(which is great!) but if you can get a working unit it will definitely add to your system.
dougcl
I've never been that impressed by the differences between any oscillators. They all sound pretty much the same to me. I got a lot more mileage out of the tracking of various modules tied together so that timbre could be controlled in interesting ways. That and the use of clean VCAs vs vactrols, waveshaping, etc. A lot more comes from particular modulation approaches than from switching to a different oscillator. While demos may seem to indicate vast disparities, typically with some fiddling you can get them all to do the same thing. With all of that said, the 200e oscillators are very different. Some good ways, and some bad ways! It is nice, when considering differences, to accept also limitations, possibly severe limitations, because that leads to a lot of variety in the system and personality in each module. I'm just not seeing that much variety in euro oscillators.
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