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Smallest buchla?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Buchla, EMS & Serge Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author Smallest buchla?
karplus
So Serge has the creature and a TKB and I figure that with one other module that could be a pretty compact, flexible and flightworthy system. But what do you think is the absolute minimum smallest useful 200e system that could be combined with a 222e input port?
ndkent
just a 291e if you want to go ultra minimal. it has a sequenceer, each filter will resonate if fed back, lots of cross mod options, a functional vca on each channel.

I haven't tried it yet but I suspect adding a 255 to the 291e would add a few good tricks like slewing a pulse into an envelope and attenuating cv

281e + 292e + a 259e or 261e would be a basic voice combo
///OSS
Id say a 4 box with a 225e + 281e + 292e + 261e but with those new Module Modules from Chris Miur you could also do one MM with a Mixer, Attenuator, ADSR, VCA, then a 225e and the 261e and have room for one more interesting module, say maybe a 291e or a 256e. and still be in a 4 boat.

screaming goo yo
modularland
I spent quite a bit of time before placing my buchla order on making the 'smallest buchla'

The smallest analog synth is always VCO, VCF, VCA, ADSR

Which on Buchla would be 261e (VCO), 291e (VCF), 292e (VCA), 281e (ADSR)

Put them in a powered 4boat and you have the smallest Buchla.
dougcl
I think you could get away with just an oscillator and a 281e with your 222e. You can get VCA like behavior out of the modulation options on either the 261e or the 259e, but I would choose the latter. I would include the 281e though because you can trigger it from the 222e and have it modulate the morph on the 259e.
don h
karplus wrote:
But what do you think is the absolute minimum smallest useful 200e system that could be combined with a 222e input port?


I think you have to define useful in a musical context. If tonal, if chords, etc?
karplus
Not tonal, no chords. I guess "typical" Buchla FM/LPG type of blips and blaps controlled from a touch surface and the infra red rings is what is interesting to me about the 200e - but in a vastly reduced form that could be portable

Of course this stuff is damned expensive - especially outside the US - so that is another reason for my question. I couldn't possibly afford a full 200e system.
don h
Okay. At least they are not very large to begin with. I'd think the tendency is from whatever size one originates from, to expand to as close to the ideal as money allows.
For me, allow was right at the 9500.00 I had. The ideal might would have been maybe 13 0r 1400.
Ideal would still have been the idea of working up an instrument that was as much as possible, a complete idea. Hopefully one that I could find a clear enough sort of personality. I think the MiniMoog does that, the EMS Synthi does also, so do Elektrons, Electribes, Bassoons, guitars,etc.
In other words, I very much was not wanting my instrument to function as component in the larger scheme of a studio.
I wanted to make work that could be realized in real time.
I think I have been able to get close to those goals anyway.
Again, the top consideration was cost. From there, I was able to map out the rest.
I'd think the physicality of the 222e would go very nicely with any of the oscillators, I'd think one would want a pair. I'm partial to both a 259e and 261e. Of course the 281e and 292e are givens, most likely the 266e is as well. The 291e is an odd choice, because one also has the 285e to think about.
Since Buchla pretty much addresses timbre through waveshaping, the role of the 291e may be in question. The 3 bandpass, that can be sequenced, etc, I think suggests it's meant to go in places other filters don't.
But back to your idea, I'd think a 222e, with maybe a pair of oscillators, and the 281e/292e, would be a very nice and physically responsive machine.
modularland
you'll need the Buchla MIDI / CV or a Kenton Pro-2000 as well- the Buchla uses 1.2V/Oct ...
J3RK
I priced this a while back:

261e
281e
292e
291e
201e

$5400

Expensive, but doable, and would be a great little setup I think. It's very close to some of the suggestions above.
ndkent
>The smallest analog synth is always VCO, VCF, VCA, ADSR

not always on the west coast 8_)


>you'll need the Buchla MIDI / CV or a Kenton Pro-2000 as well- the Buchla uses 1.2V/Oct

he did say he's using the 222e + I don't believe Kenton will gate the 281e though I've not tried.

> You can get VCA like behavior out of the modulation options on either the 261e or the 259e

Huh? You can get 3x VCO and VCA like behavior out of the 291e with enough CV. You can alter the timbre on the 261e or 259e to compensate for the lack of a filter to a degree but you can't adjust amplitude so you'll need a VCA from something else.
dougcl
ndkent wrote:

Huh? You can get 3x VCO and VCA like behavior out of the 291e with enough CV. You can alter the timbre on the 261e or 259e to compensate for the lack of a filter to a degree but you can't adjust amplitude so you'll need a VCA from something else.


Not sure if you are taking offense or asking a question. Assuming it's the latter, if you set the 259e green side to sine, and the red side to something nice and rich, then modulate the morph, it's a lot like a VCO->VCA, because the perception of volume changes with the harmonic content. Something like that.

After hearing the original poster specify more detail, I would recommend an oscillator, 281e, 292e and the 222e as the minimum. I leave the 291e out in spite of all its features that you have mentioned. I like the sound of the oscillators better as sound sources, and I think they stand on their own without a filter, and would make a better choice in a minimal system. I am particularly fond of the 259e. That you recommend the 291e only enriches this thread with more options. The more the merrier.
prscrptn
This is a very nice and compact system for the 222e...



201e - 6; 259e, 261e, 222e, 281e, 292e, 206e w/ 3-panel Passive Frame for 222e.
dougcl
What is that black object to the left of the wands? I want to think it is a banana to tiny jax adapter, because I want one.
karplus
ooh, my heart jumped a bit seeing that picture. Can I ask, are those rods for a Lightning (using the preset manager as a midi interface?) or are they to work directly with the 222e?

And thanks for all the ideas here chaps, I think I'm gonna be busy with this idea for a long time. The range of options from not having a filter at all to only having a filter is just mindbogglingly buchlary....

Any demos of the 291e used as VCOs?

Looking at the current options it occurs to me that Buchla should probably make an 8 panel (2x4) folding case which could confirm to every airlines carry on baggage policy.
felix
Take this with a grain of salt, since I only obsess over 200e systems, and don't actually own one.

For me, I think I would go with:
259e
292e
222e (and it's module counterpart)

While the 281e is essential to any Buchla system, I think the fact that you're going to use the 222e, that you'll have a significant number of CV sources directly from the 222e itself, and I would assume one could get a decent fill of plucky sounds by using pulses from the 222e. I also like the 4 space form factor for some reason. If going 6 spaces, I'd first add a 256e and then a 281e.
dougcl
felix wrote:
I would assume one could get a decent fill of plucky sounds by using pulses from the 222e.


Good point. I bet you're right.
prscrptn
karplus wrote:
ooh, my heart jumped a bit seeing that picture. Can I ask, are those rods for a Lightning (using the preset manager as a midi interface?) or are they to work directly with the 222e?


The Rods will work with the 222e and I believe that you can purchase them form B & A instead of the rings that accompany the Kinesthetic.

The only drawback would be that you can not use the Lightning Rods with the Touch Surface at the same time, (...unless you use your toes).
don h
karplus wrote:
Any demos of the 291e used as VCOs?

Sort of, at my site, the peptide and non peptide, also anything from my Activating the 5HT2A and Opioid Receptors deal
www.donhassler.com
It's mostly 291e feeding back as what you hear, but often I stick a 261e too.
REwire
I don't think the 291e is needed in a basic system. I have one and have found it not adding much to what the 261e and 259e offer. If I added three modules to a 222e it'd be a 259e, 281e and 292e.

The 225e is amazing as a midi module and blows away my Kenton. I'd love to have that for my Euro stuff.

Dan
infinite7
dougcl wrote:
What is that black object to the left of the wands? I want to think it is a banana to tiny jax adapter, because I want one.


sadly (as i want one too) i believe it's just a 1/8" to 1/4" adapter as it looks similar to the ones being used for the outs on the 206e.
dougcl
Okay I finally dug in last night and tried to get a sequenced tune going using the 291e alone. Works great, but in order to use the modulation section (which I think is essential) you need the 210e. I had the 210e jammed up with just 291e routing to get it to generate sound and cross modulate. That means no patch routing available, and it's all because a few mults are missing on the 291e.
prscrptn
dougcl wrote:
...the 291e alone works great, but in order to use the modulation section (which I think is essential) you need the 210e. I had the 210e jammed up with just 291e routing to get it to generate sound and cross modulate. That means no patch routing available...


Try using the 256e...

dougcl wrote:
... a few mults are missing on the 291e.


Please explain further...
dougcl
Perhaps I am mistaken (I hope so).

To get sound out of A, I route the output of A back into the input of A, and set the bw to 99. Then I monitor ALL and turn up the amplitude of A. Now the freq knob adjusts the pitch. Then I do the same thing for B. At this point I have a unison patch of two sines. Cool enough, but if I want to now use B output to modulate A, I am out of luck. B out is going to B in. If I had a mult on B out, I could merely use it to run B to mod A. Same could be done to use A to mod B. Using the modulation options gets you away from mere sine waves. Unless I am missing something, the only way to do that is via the signal section of the 210e. Oh, I might be able to use the 292e since it has multed outputs. But now I've consumed the 292e for 291e signal routing. I have found myself using the 292e just to obtain audio mults!

Hope all of that makes sense.
prscrptn
d'oh! ...now I understand!
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