What noise is to you...

Discussing gear, production, and ideas for making noise music. Enough JMJ, let's rock like Merzbow!

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amnesia
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Post by amnesia » Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:34 am

oh snap! :-)

I personally dont get into music with words, and I cant stand pop/rock music in general anymore.

also noise is TV most of the time especially advertising

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anthonybisset
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Post by anthonybisset » Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:28 am

For me, noise is simply exploration of thresholds,, listener thresholds, performance thresholds, performer, speaker, venue, etc.

It's timely in that it reflects societies increasing disorder... The chaos of being here now, trying to balance fixed internal biology against rapidly changing external technology.

I see the carnival revival of the past 10 years as the emotional opposite of noise. While noise often works to brutalize the listener, to destroy any frame of reference and provide the listener with a depressed catharsis (from entropic energy release), the carnival works to destabilize the participant into confusing states of negentropic pleasure.

Perhaps a noise brothel with carnival rides would be a perfect fusion?

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anthonybisset
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Post by anthonybisset » Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:33 am

I wanted to mention the non-associative field of noise being a consciousness free zone or free consciousness zone, whichever... There is a certain spiritual parallel to being overwhelmed by static. Very akin to yogic and altered states I've experienced.

are we there yet?
45?

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Post by anthonybisset » Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:50 am

Having been performing (unwittingly) as a noise musician for a few years, I have a lot to say, or could be that I'm just working my way quickly to 50 without posting bullshit "so excited i could puke" messages about modules I care nothing about.

((There really should be a weighting system for this whole "social buy in via post count". I mean, if I write 200 words of useful data on a topic aren't a few posts like that good enough? Muffs is littered with jibberjabber from posters on the way to 50 and worse yet, it's all positive, Okay I'll stop bitching.))

So what I was on about was,
Genrefication of "Noise" isn't killing noise as a cultural movement. I think it's pretty clear bad noise shows are. It's an easy genre to fake with a modest gear investment.

"Noise Music" is laughably paradoxical and I hope it fulfills it's cultural marker by giving kids a genre and then destroying itself the only way a paradox knows how, in a shuddering wall of noise. This of course will cause more cultural evolution and expansion of sound or unsound concepts. Which is great. Music is boring, that's why were all here making music no?

I expect noise and chaos to get together and do some really great things.
Perhaps open that carny bar I was dreaming of above.

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Post by modularland » Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:04 am

noise to me is music that has both of the following two aspects:

cannot be remembered
cannot be repeated
Steve L

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anthonybisset
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Post by anthonybisset » Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:48 am

So, should it be recorded / released?
:hmm:

btw, I agree about the unrepeatable aspect. And I've never seen the audience head off to another bar and mount a sing-a-long
:party:

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Post by Reese P. Dubin » Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:06 pm

That Mattin thing was a real gas. Was so glad when he broke the fourth wall and took the piss. One because it was completely unexpected. Two because his version of whitehouse or whatever sucked.

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Post by Cat-A-Tonic » Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:58 pm

de_raaf wrote:i rather consider noise as a side product, than a sound intentionally made

so the sound of of a vacuum cleaner is in that sense more noise, than a sound generated by noise musician

same as construction sounds, industrial by product sounds etc
If someone performed with a vacuum cleaner
they could potentially get stuff cleaned up as a byproduct of 'music'. :cheesy:

I agree with Anthony.
Immersive noise can be very :zen:

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Post by felixer » Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:06 pm

stk wrote:Anyone can make a racket
actually ... no. you'd be surprised how few trained musicians/composers are capable of going beyond their training. which is a pity because only then you can
stk wrote:control that racket and focus it into brilliance
a lot of 'noise music' is basically just a demonstration of incompetence by obnoxious youngsters trying to piss off their parents.
cecil taylor is a well (classically) trained pianist. only because of that can he play with such audacity. schoenberg developed atonal music because he had exhausted the harmonic system. as he said: 'someone had to do it'.
noise in music to me is simply everything too complex to grasp. because of our limited capacity. it has nothing to do with sound itself and everything with human nature. ymmv as usual ....
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Post by Nelson Baboon » Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:09 pm

Lots of music in general isn't made with competence.

One doesn't need to be trained to make good music.

I don't understand the point that noise is 'everything too complex to grasp'. I'm not sure either what you mean by 'complex' or 'grasp'

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Post by Nelson Baboon » Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:13 pm

anthonybisset wrote:So, should it be recorded / released?
:hmm:

btw, I agree about the unrepeatable aspect. And I've never seen the audience head off to another bar and mount a sing-a-long
:party:
This is really very good:

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Post by felixer » Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:00 pm

Nelson Baboon wrote:Lots of music in general isn't made with competence.

One doesn't need to be trained to make good music.

I don't understand the point that noise is 'everything too complex to grasp'. I'm not sure either what you mean by 'complex' or 'grasp'
complex as in 'a cymbal sound is more complex then a sinewave'.
grasp as in 'being able to connect/file with things you know'.
training doesn't have to be 'official'. it just means 'getting good/proficient at what you're doing'. 'learning on the job' is perfectly ok ....
offcourse anyone can get lucky and produce something worthwhile by accident. but not on a regular basis, methinks. offcourse that shouldn't prevent anybody from taking risks and going out on a limb. as long as you add the experience to your 'knowledge base'. that is what i call 'learning'. or 'training yourself'. happens naturally everywhere. only way to prevent it afaik is frontal lobotomy.
edit: i do believe that (in theory) humans have infinite capacity. just don't see too many examples of it. and 'human nature' should read more like 'the current average state of the human race'. despite everything i remain optimistic :mrgreen:
Last edited by felixer on Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Nelson Baboon » Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:06 pm

felixer wrote: complex as in 'a cymbal sound is more complex then a sinewave'.
grasp as in 'being able to connect/file with things you know'.
training doesn't have to be 'official'. it just means 'getting good/proficient at what you're doing'. 'learning on the job' is perfectly ok ....
offcourse anyone can get lucky and produce something worthwhile by accident. but not on a regular basis, methinks. offcourse that shouldn't prevent anybody from taking risks and going out on a limb. as long as you add the experience to your 'knowledge base'. that is what i call 'learning'. or 'training yourself'. happens naturally everywhere. only way to prevent it afaik is frontal lobotomy.
But most sounds are more complex than a sinewave and we don't call them noise....so as an explanation of what you mean, it doesn't help me.

I'm not sure how one 'knows' a sound.

Become more proficient at what you do applies to anything. I don't understand how it pertains particularly to noise music.

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Post by felixer » Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:00 am

Nelson Baboon wrote:
felixer wrote: complex as in 'a cymbal sound is more complex then a sinewave'.
grasp as in 'being able to connect/file with things you know'.
training doesn't have to be 'official'. it just means 'getting good/proficient at what you're doing'. 'learning on the job' is perfectly ok ....
offcourse anyone can get lucky and produce something worthwhile by accident. but not on a regular basis, methinks. offcourse that shouldn't prevent anybody from taking risks and going out on a limb. as long as you add the experience to your 'knowledge base'. that is what i call 'learning'. or 'training yourself'. happens naturally everywhere. only way to prevent it afaik is frontal lobotomy.
But most sounds are more complex than a sinewave and we don't call them noise....so as an explanation of what you mean, it doesn't help me.

I'm not sure how one 'knows' a sound.

Become more proficient at what you do applies to anything. I don't understand how it pertains particularly to noise music.
yeah, i see a line from sine->electronic organ->plucked string->bowed string->gong-with-knob->cymbal->electronic (white/pink) noise. or something like that (everything beyond 'bowed string' is still often considered 'noise' by classical musicians). on another plane there are modulations of pitch and amplitude of those sounds: you could make 'noise music' with just a sine, played in a certain way. yet another plane holds added reflections from different 'containers' like sphere->cube-> asymetrical rooms->highly irregular surroundings like baroque churches (source being in the centre).
'knowing a sound' would imply being able to predict it. the worst prob being a repeated sample like with those awfull machinedrums that go on 3 min without variation in yer avarage 80ies popsong.
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Post by Nelson Baboon » Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:07 am

But white noise could also be viewed as simple...

I WANT sounds that I can't predict. In that sense, I don't want to know them. Predicting them removes the element of surprise, which I like. To me, proficiency becomes the ability to surprise and delight myself.

I'm not even sure how to define proficiency, except simply that i can make music that I like. That's bogus in some sense, but I'm not sure if an individual can, in honesty, really go beyond that.

I'm just thinking out loud, which is often disasterous.
felixer wrote:
Nelson Baboon wrote:
felixer wrote: complex as in 'a cymbal sound is more complex then a sinewave'.
grasp as in 'being able to connect/file with things you know'.
training doesn't have to be 'official'. it just means 'getting good/proficient at what you're doing'. 'learning on the job' is perfectly ok ....
offcourse anyone can get lucky and produce something worthwhile by accident. but not on a regular basis, methinks. offcourse that shouldn't prevent anybody from taking risks and going out on a limb. as long as you add the experience to your 'knowledge base'. that is what i call 'learning'. or 'training yourself'. happens naturally everywhere. only way to prevent it afaik is frontal lobotomy.
But most sounds are more complex than a sinewave and we don't call them noise....so as an explanation of what you mean, it doesn't help me.

I'm not sure how one 'knows' a sound.

Become more proficient at what you do applies to anything. I don't understand how it pertains particularly to noise music.
yeah, i see a line from sine->electronic organ->plucked string->bowed string->gong-with-knob->cymbal->electronic (white/pink) noise. or something like that (everything beyond 'bowed string' is still often considered 'noise' by classical musicians). on another plane there are modulations of pitch and amplitude of those sounds: you could make 'noise music' with just a sine, played in a certain way. yet another plane holds added reflections from different 'containers' like sphere->cube-> asymetrical rooms->highly irregular surroundings like baroque churches (source being in the centre).
'knowing a sound' would imply being able to predict it. the worst prob being a repeated sample like with those awfull machinedrums that go on 3 min without variation in yer avarage 80ies popsong.

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Post by felixer » Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:53 am

Nelson Baboon wrote:But white noise could also be viewed as simple...
yes, so the circles closes. as with most things. although that is a philosofical/religious notion alien to western/monotheistic culture. one of my favourite sounds is a sine modulated by white noise. as simple as it seems, it took me years to get there :mrgreen:
Nelson Baboon wrote:To me, proficiency becomes the ability to surprise and delight myself.
:tu: that's exactly what i mean. unfortunatly they don't teach you those techniques at school .... but in the mean time you picked up a lot of knowledge about the gear your working with. getting better at it with time. like it or not: you do know what you're doing. experimenting is more then just blindly fiddling along. your output proves that. :nod:
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Post by Nelson Baboon » Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:57 am

felixer wrote:
Nelson Baboon wrote:But white noise could also be viewed as simple...
yes, so the circles closes. as with most things. although that is a philosofical/religious notion alien to western/monotheistic culture. one of my favourite sounds is a sine modulated by white noise. as simple as it seems, it took me years to get there :mrgreen:
Nelson Baboon wrote:To me, proficiency becomes the ability to surprise and delight myself.
:tu: that's exactly what i mean. unfortunatly they don't teach you those techniques at school .... but in the mean time you picked up a lot of knowledge about the gear your working with. getting better at it with time. like it or not: you do know what you're doing. experimenting is more then just blindly fiddling along. your output proves that. :nod:
But it DOES feel that way - blindly fiddling along, sometimes with the intent to do so, else I'll just be boring myself. The trick is then to choose correctly - that sucks or I like that...so maybe one needs just a little bit of knowledge, but I always push myself so far past it that it feels more like blindly fiddling along. That also leads to despair.

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Post by eye_maggot » Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:48 am

[quote="D/A A/D"]Ok so here are some "recognized" sub genres:
harsh noise (PCRV, Stimbox, Xome)
Japanoise (Incapacitants, The Gerogerigegege, Merzbow)
walls (The Rita, Seagull, LHD)
rhythmic noise (Wolf Eyes, Sixes, Sword Heaven)
drone (Damion Romero, Birchville Cat Motel, Slow Listener)
synth noise (Pulse Emitter, Demons, Headboggle)
cut up noise (Sickness, T.E.F., Guilty Connector)
lo-fi noise (Fossils, Sick Lama, Loveletters)
power electronics (Prurient, Whitehouse, Bastard Noise)
death industrial (Atrax Morgue, Maurizio Bianchi, Brighter Death Now)
laptop noise (Mike Shiflet, John Wise)
scrap noise (The Haters, IDX1274)
doom (Burial Hex, Burial Hex, Burial Hex)

associated genres:
old school industrial (Throbbing Gristle, Einsturzende Neubauten, SPK)
power violence (Man Is The Bastard, the endless blockade)
noisegrind (Anal Cunt, Genital Masticator, Gore Beyond Necropsy)
noise rock (Sonic Youth, Unsane, Lightning Bolt)

(shouldn't be) associated genres (in my opinion):
power noise, noize or distorted beat music (Synapscape, Iszoloscope, anything on ant-zen)
EBM (Wumpscut, FLA, Nitzer Ebb)
Digital Hardcore (Atari Teenage Riot)

Why are we trying to define noise? I think this is incredibly retarded, and offensive. Is this some sort of introduction to those who don't know the genre? Why bother, when I started listening to noise/experimental whatever, I had no introduction, I found it on my own, this is the problem with web boards/internet there are always those who try and DEFINE EVERYTHING, to me NOISE is an un-definable genre, and its blatantly obnoxious to put a LIST OF LABELS as above on such a rebellious form of art. FUCK OFF POSER

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Re: youtubey

Post by Rod Serling Fan Club » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:01 am

opsysbug wrote:"this vid...Crackle Crackle-occasional overused r2d2 noise-Crackle Crackle...not such a great vid if your trying to show off your hardware"
I hadn't realized r2d2 "noise" had become cliche. Much of what I do could probably be loosely described as r2d2 sounds. I guess I better sell my gear and get a strat and a delay pedal. There is so much unexplored area with a guitar and a delay pedal.

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Post by rico loverde » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:35 am

Fuck off poser? Hey welcome to muffs mr friendly. At least he's adding something to the forum.
works for Darkplace Manufacturing

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Post by Rod Serling Fan Club » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:41 am

I think he accidentally clicked the 13 and over button, thinking 12 and a half counted.

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Post by Reality Checkpoint » Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:32 am

eye_maggot wrote:Why are we trying to define noise? I think this is incredibly retarded, and offensive. Is this some sort of introduction to those who don't know the genre? Why bother, when I started listening to noise/experimental whatever, I had no introduction, I found it on my own, this is the problem with web boards/internet there are always those who try and DEFINE EVERYTHING, to me NOISE is an un-definable genre, and its blatantly obnoxious to put a LIST OF LABELS as above on such a rebellious form of art. FUCK OFF POSER
Hello and welcome to Muffs.

I think with this type of approach you are maybe in the wrong place. Why don't you try a board such as Chondritic Sound?

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Post by felixer » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:34 pm

Nelson Baboon wrote:
felixer wrote:experimenting is more then just blindly fiddling along
But it DOES feel that way - blindly fiddling along, sometimes with the intent to do so, else I'll just be boring myself. The trick is then to choose correctly - that sucks or I like that...so maybe one needs just a little bit of knowledge, but I always push myself so far past it that it feels more like blindly fiddling along. That also leads to despair.
like they say: learn everything there is to know and then forget everything you learned. forgetting is the hard part .... :bang: is part of the game: no pain, no gain .... still, not doing it is even worse (you can hear gurdijev laughing in the distance) :hihi:
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Post by RUMPLEDFORESKIN » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:49 pm

Reality Checkpoint wrote:
eye_maggot wrote:Why are we trying to define noise? I think this is incredibly retarded, and offensive. Is this some sort of introduction to those who don't know the genre? Why bother, when I started listening to noise/experimental whatever, I had no introduction, I found it on my own, this is the problem with web boards/internet there are always those who try and DEFINE EVERYTHING, to me NOISE is an un-definable genre, and its blatantly obnoxious to put a LIST OF LABELS as above on such a rebellious form of art. FUCK OFF POSER
Hello and welcome to Muffs.

I think with this type of approach you are maybe in the wrong place. Why don't you try a board such as Chondritic Sound?
What are you trying to say about Chondritic Sound?!?!?!? FUCK OFF POSER! 8_)

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Post by Reality Checkpoint » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:53 pm

RUMPLEDFORESKIN wrote:
Reality Checkpoint wrote:
eye_maggot wrote:Why are we trying to define noise? I think this is incredibly retarded, and offensive. Is this some sort of introduction to those who don't know the genre? Why bother, when I started listening to noise/experimental whatever, I had no introduction, I found it on my own, this is the problem with web boards/internet there are always those who try and DEFINE EVERYTHING, to me NOISE is an un-definable genre, and its blatantly obnoxious to put a LIST OF LABELS as above on such a rebellious form of art. FUCK OFF POSER
Hello and welcome to Muffs.

I think with this type of approach you are maybe in the wrong place. Why don't you try a board such as Chondritic Sound?
What are you trying to say about Chondritic Sound?!?!?!? FUCK OFF POSER! 8_)
Nothing! I am a member there myself, and have been longer than I have been a member here. Just horses for courses. :fu:

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