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Mini-Modules : Minimoog DIY clone on its way.
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 ... 60, 61, 62  Next [all]
Author Mini-Modules : Minimoog DIY clone on its way.
hv0190
I've got a huge backlog, but what the heck ...
I'm in if this materialises! thumbs up
Neovintage
Cool.

Ca m'intéresse également.
Isaiah
jdelgoulet
I've been thinking about this project quite a lot.

Maybe I am asking questions prematurely if you haven't finalised control PCBs yet, but I wondering a few things:
•There are more knobs on your prototype than a Minimoog - what are the extra controls? PW/PWM for each VCO? White/Pink noise blend?
•Will the variable PW/PWM replace any (or all) of the Square/Pulse I/Pulse II modes, or will it be an additional mode that can be selected?
•Will the control boards have mounting holes? I hope so! thumbs up
•I did have other questions but I forgot! hihi

The 60HP option is very tempting due the minimal (or complete lack of) wiring needed, but I have a stash of black Moog rocker switches that would be perfect for this project, so I'm very much looking forward to seeing how the individual control boards compare to the 60HP board.
Personally, I'd probably be happy building a 84HP or 4Ux17" version.

Never even considered the Minimoog as a real option before as it will never be within my budget.
Thanks for sharing your hard work!
Dubka
woah……

we're not worthy
nickster
A dream come true! Words can not adequately describe the joy at seeing this project. Backlog be damded I'm so very interetsed in this. Best of luck with the final stages. Hoping all works out nicely. nanners Rockin' Banana! The Chewbacca Defense
jdelgoulet
Isaiah wrote:

You are right. Each VCO has a PW knob and a PWM input jack (and instead of choosing 6 wave forms, you only choose between 4, the 4th one being the square wave which is PWMable). I also added a "modulation wheel" knob which set the level of modulation send to the VCO/VCF (hence the name). There are also 2 more switches which are used to sync VCO-2 and/or VCO-3 to VCO-1.
One more little tiny pot (far right bottom, between the jack) is the main volume. Apart from that, all the other control are the classic one.

The control board, for now, has holes for the "Mini-Modules". While using pin headers to hold them would be fine, 2 screws on each "Mini-Module" will prevent the card from drooping. Having 6 or 8 screws might be possible.

When designing the machine, it is very tempting to just add some more HP and get more functionality. For example, it would be nice to have 2 VCAs (2 jacks + 2 pots) to set the level of modulation send either to the VCO or VCF. But ... then, you'll want two more for the enveloppes, then midi ... etc etc.


[Progress]

* I will have the ADS/VCF/VCA/Preamp boards done and tested during the week-end. This is the xxxx times I making those so, they will work.
I also design a control board to hold them for testing purpose.

* I'm now re-routing (can't remember how many times I did that ...) the 60HP main board since, "Mini-Modules" are now mounted vertically. The tricky part are the VCOs : I want to keep them "horizontal" on the panel but , to support the Eurorack format", they have to be mounted vertically. So there is some head scratching to come ...


** This picture is a part of the VCO control section. This is the first pass routing which gives me an overview. Then I re-route trying to optimize path **
Isaiah
jdelgoulet
Thanks for the information.

I guess it makes sense to replace the Square/Pulse modes with a single Variable PW mode.
Glad to hear there is a (mod wheel) modulation control, I was wondering how the depth would be controlled. hihi
Sync sounds like another good addition.

A few more questions:
•Looks like the Mixer switches have been omitted, is that right?
•Will VCO 3 still have both rising and falling saw/ramp waves? Hope so!
•Looks like there are four switches near the filter - Keyboard Control 1/3 and 2/3, Filter Modulation and Decay (Release), is that right?

Keep up the good work! thumbs up
jdelgoulet
Isaiah
•Looks like the Mixer switches have been omitted, is that right? : true - I did not notice any bleed thru when level is at 0.
•Will VCO 3 still have both rising and falling saw/ramp waves? : of course ! w00t
•Looks like there are four switches near the filter - Keyboard Control 1/3 and 2/3, Filter Modulation and Decay (Release), is that right? : it is.
JohnLRice
jdelgoulet wrote:
Isaiah
•Looks like the Mixer switches have been omitted, is that right? : true - I did not notice any bleed thru when level is at 0.
The switches are very useful in performance. Maybe something to reconsider but don't do it for me since I won't be getting one. . . . because I have a huge 5U modular, a MiniMoog Model D and I'm unemployeed! Dead Banana
Isaiah
jdelgoulet
Thanks for clarifying!

The question now is whether I'll mount the pots and switches on the PCBs for an easy build and lose some of the performance aspects (proper mod wheel, Moog switches and more comfortable control spacing);
or use flying wires (urgh!) but gain a much more Moog-like panel.
Could even be a good candidate for building a keyboard monosynth... help

I guess I will weigh up the pros and cons once the the control boards are complete.
jdelgoulet
I'm open to any modification that could be done 'cos I'm pretty sure that most of you are better performer than I am (I like to build synth but curiously I'm not playing them a lot ...).

First I will stick with my original design. Then, why not see if for example, adding the VCO level on/off switch is a real add-on. This won't be hard to add at the end, but this will lead to a larger panel ...

Just for teasing ... I've just finished routing the Mini-Module VCO board so that it can fit horizontally behind the main board.
wired
Great project!
JohnLRice
jdelgoulet wrote:
First I will stick with my original design. Then, why not see if for example, adding the VCO level on/off switch is a real add-on. This won't be hard to add at the end, but this will lead to a larger panel ...
Hi,

I think if you just added jumper header pins on the PCB for optional features like mixer channel mutes etc then you and third parties could make small expander panels that plug into these option jumper? The module wouldn't require the expander module/panel and function as originally designed with jumpers on the pins.

It has worked well for Synth Tech as third party expansion panels have been especially popular for the E350 Morphing Terrarium VCO. People have added switches to select options and input attenuators etc to enhance the main module.









nickster
As some of the mini experience is down to the panel layout. I'm all for the possibility to have a more original style panel so flying wires may be how I would build this to acheive this. But if there was a way to have a break out socket for these I'd be really impressed.
But this is just an idea most definitely not a demand. Just to have this project as it is, is fabulous!
Dave Kendall
jdelgoulet - awesome project! :-)

For those that might want the Minimoog panel layout, there's THIS

(of course, a bunch of work and other parts like rocker switches would be needed, but this *is* the DIY forum right? smile

cheers,
Dave
Isaiah
jdelgoulet
Hmmm... I guess it's hard to satisfy everybody!
Perhaps there are some things that can be executed in a way that allow the builder to add modifications easily, like JLR suggested above.

Personally, I don't think 84HP would be a big sacrifice to have a full synth voice in one's rack, especially one so highly revered as the Minimoog.
It would afford the space for a more comfortable control layout and invite the user to "play" the synth, not tweak it delicately.
But maybe that's not a priority for the Euro format/crowd, I don't know.
The likelihood is that whatever you offer in the end, I will make it fit my personal plan, even if I have to wire every pot and switch off-board. Dead Banana

I get the feeling this question is going to be very premature, so forgive me if I'm a pain in the ass,
but is it possible to give a very rough estimate of the cost of components (new and obsolete) and a complete PCB set, please?
Really I just mean a ballpark figure like "300-500EUR for the whole thing."
Trying to budget for a lot of stuff in the Real World righ now, you see! hihi

Thanks again!
jdelgoulet
This is an interesting discussion and yes, it's hard to satisfy everybody !
When I started this project more than a year ago, the plan was clearly to make a clone. I mean, a clone , clone. (I still have a minimoog big panel in my garage near where I do the PCBs). As I didn't want to bother wiring every pots and switch, and didn't want to spend my money on huge PCBs, I made a scale down version. Then I saw it was possible to greatly reduce the size of the overall machine and while my Eagle skills were getting better days after days, I choose the Eurorack route.

One of the pictures I posted at the beginning of this thread is a prototype I did about 8 months ago. The big board with all the components contains the PSU, noise and modmix section, 3 VCOs, VCA VCF and preamp. (The contour generators were on the pot boards on the opposite side of the pot ... not that easy to solder and debug). So this board is nearly a "mini-voice" where connection to the pots board were made using 2*5 pins headers and ribbon cable.

Listening to your comments, I have a feeling that this could be the best compromise. Having a "mini-voice" that fits 60HP eurorack that could be use with another control board (this does not change my plans), or, alone with some breakout board so you guys can wire pots and switch.

Having 3M type connectors open-up to more DIY projects than the use of pin headers where you, DIYers, will have to follow my rules (pin headers placement, orientation, size etc)
Isaiah
jdelgoulet
A breakout PCB sounds like a good solution for those who don't wish to build a Eurorack module.
So the non-Euro option could consist of a Minimoog voice PCB and a breakout PCB for wiring the pots and switches?
Or would the breakout PCB act as a host for a set of your smaller PCBs?

Also, I don't think anyone has asked yet:
•Which version of the VCO did you clone?
•Have you included any mods (octave buffer etc)?
I must admit, I haven't read much about the various Minimoog revisions, but I'm curious to hear which one you chose and if you felt any of the tuning stability mods were necessary with modern components.

Does your project include a headphone amp?
Unlike the perhaps unnecessary A440 oscillator, it does seem to be used as part of the Minimoog's sound (fed back into the external input) not just as a utility.
Perhaps the feedback trick is easily accomplished in a modular environment without the headphone amp though.

Lastly, one possible mod that could be interesting (and this is by no means a demand) is to replace the mod wheel/modulation depth pot with an optocoupler.
Voltage-controlled modulation depth!
Resistor values would have to be adjusted so there is negligible modulation depth when "off" as the optocoupler's "on" resistance might be, say, 1K or more.
Just an idea, it could be a lot more trouble than it's worth though.

Apologies for bombarding you with questions! hihi
jdelgoulet
Quote:
Isaiah


•Which version of the VCO did you clone? : Rev 2.0 That's mean, the one with the CA3046 based expo conveter which still has the all transistors core oscillator.
•Have you included any mods (octave buffer etc)? : well, the circuitry is the same as the rev 2.0 and includes all "factory" mods (tempco on top of CA3046, RC network near the expo , centered pitch bitch bend , octave bugger etc).
•Does your project include a headphone amp? 440 ? : no 440 and yes the preamp (not the headphone) is there so you can achieve the main out -> preamp trick.

•replace the mod wheel/modulation depth pot with an optocoupler : if you read carefully my previous post, I talk about it. For now this is a pot. But other options like a VCA might be possible. Also I'm not sure I'll have enough free space on the board to add such circuitry. We'll see.
baloo
Salut!
Interested in your project, count on me for one set.
Guinness ftw!
lintfresh
Very cool project!

Watching with interest. hyper
f_le_francais
Dave Kendall wrote:
For those that might want the Minimoog panel layout, there's THIS

(of course, a bunch of work and other parts like rocker switches would be needed, but this *is* the DIY forum right? smile


Yes !!!!!
And more It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners It's peanut butter jelly time! :


memorygardens
Personally i dont have a eurorack system. I would love to build the case and buy that minimoog panel. I just want an out right minimoog clone. I have no i idea how but i want it!!!!!
Don T
memorygardens wrote:
Personally i dont have a eurorack system. I would love to build the case and buy that minimoog panel. I just want an out right minimoog clone. I have no i idea how but i want it!!!!!


I'm working on something like this. Almost to the testing phase.
jdelgoulet
memorygardens wrote:
Personally i dont have a eurorack system. I would love to build the case and buy that minimoog panel. I just want an out right minimoog clone. I have no i idea how but i want it!!!!!


Well, the board is eurorack compatible in size but the onboard PSU can handle +-20 V DC input. So is compatible with eurorack, synth.com, MOTM and any PSU of your choice.
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