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Mini-Modules : Minimoog DIY clone on its way.
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Author Mini-Modules : Minimoog DIY clone on its way.
jdelgoulet
PCB and Panel kits available here : https://guinguin-instruments.ecwid.com/

Build guide with BOM on github : https://guinguin-instruments.github.io/MME/

Rare parts kit (by DSL-MAN) : www.diysynth.de

Hello everyone !

My name is Julien Delgoulet, I'm a synth DIY passionate from a little town in France called Brive-La-gaillarde. I usually spend my time lurking on muff, matrixsynth , electro-music.com when I'm not repairing,
moding or designing synth related circuits.
For quite a long time, I dream to own a Minimoog but never had the cash to buy one ...
About a year ago, a friend of mine get one and, after playing a few times with it, I decided to give it a go. (By that time, I did not know that this project will fill all my nights and week-ends ... fortunatly I have a
wonderfull wife love )
The initial target was to make an exact replica but finally ends up with what I call "Mini-modules" (Think ARP like sub-modules for Filter, VCO etc) for any format : eurorack / Moog 5U, you name it. Also, they could fit behind a "real minimoog sized panel".

All the design are exact replica of the Minimoog rev 2.0 (the one based on CA3046 expo converters) and are all using thru-whole components (excepted a few components that only exist in SMD packages)

So, let me introduce you the idea of "Mini-modules" and the control boards that actually "activate" them.

There will be 6 "Mini-modules":

- VCO
- VCA/Preamp
- VCF
- VCF Env
- VCA Env
- Noise/mod-mix/glide

There will be also 7 "Controller boards" :
- One for each mini-module (so you get an eurorack version of each for example).
- Another, my favorite one, which is 60HP eurorack version where 3VCOs, VCF etc plug into. ( I choose 60 HP so that if you have a 84HP case, you still have some room for a real LFO, a midi/CV interface etc)


At the moment, everything works great, I'm finalizing the "Mini-modules" and the 60 HP Controller Board to hold them.
To give you an idea of the progress made so far , here are some pictures of old prototypes and "Mini-modules" eagle boards. More to come in a few days...

As you might except, this will be a DIY project and I will propose PCBs, BOMs and schematics so that "everyone" can build his own Mini ;-)

I'm so thrilled to expose this project to you guys ,particularly on muff (where I've been more than a lurker and not very helpfull to the communtiy) and
hope you are excited as I am about this project now it is not "secret" anymore w00t

Julien
















Starspawn
Very nice!
Whats the rare parts count like?
horstronic
Wow, that's a big project! You must have spent a lot of time with it.
As you say these are exact replicas: Are there any hard to find parts in it?
That would probably scare away a lot of people.

Nice one, keep it up thumbs up
horstronic
2 minutes to late hihi
ablearcher
Whole minimoog in 60 hp? That is tight! Can you still wiggle on that? Also, impressive! Can't wait to hear the results.
jdelgoulet
Rare parts are mainly 2N4058/2N4402 which could be replaced if one does not care about "an exact replica". During development, I tried replacement parts and, to my ear, there was no difference.
E402 has been replaced, like on some Minimoog series, with 2N3954.
Also, TIS97 are hard to find parts but I have a very, very nice popular replacement part which is, on paper (datasheet) and to my hears, the same ;-)

I might offer "rare parts" packages or have someone deal with that for me.
At the moment, the target is : finish the mini-modules, the 60HP board and give you a taste of how it sounds.

PS : The idea of doing Mini-Modules was also a way for DIYers to easily debug and get help from others to track down what is wrong in a specific board.
A Mini for everyone ! nanners Rockin' Banana!
nicoodiy
Un Français!!

Quote:
As you might except, this will be a DIY project and I will propose PCBs, BOMs and schematics so that "everyone" can build his own Mini ;-)


Thanks to you for your open-source project!! applause
jdelgoulet
ablearcher wrote:
Whole minimoog in 60 hp? That is tight! Can you still wiggle on that? Also, impressive! Can't wait to hear the results.

Yes it is but not that bad actually. Spacing between pots, without knobs, is about 3 cm (1.15 inch).
jdelgoulet
And you have more options like variable PW and PWM inputs (don't know why this was not "standard" back in the days), dedicated CV in for each VCO (crazy modulations or paraphonic 3 voices Mini), buffered ADSs outputs to play with etc
seanpark
This looks really cool! I've always wanted to build a mini.
Isaiah
Oh, goodness...
trialanderror
That's an impressive and good looking project!
I'll definitely keep an eye on this.
mush
May I say that I love you?!
Morley
Nice!
latigid on
Yeah, but does it sound like a Mini?

(hides)
Moog$FooL$
nice..... good luck with this.

thumbs up
negativspace
Definitely interested. w00t
ThecureForSin
You can call me INTERESTED!
gbiz
Wow. Nice work Julien. applause
Sparky
Wow, this looks good. I'm interested too.
Isaiah
Are any of the jacks switching?
Just wondering if they could be easily replaced with bananas.

I'm curious to see a labelled image of the 60HP control/switch layout if you have one at all, please.

This is very impressive, by the way.
Thank you for sharing and making your project available.
I fear it might prove too hard to resist!
jdelgoulet
Isaiah wrote:
Are any of the jacks switching?

Some of them use the switching mechanism like the PWM individual inputs for each VCO.
sicpaul
Wow!
Not that i'm too short of projects,
but a Euro modular Mini .... it makes my mouth water!

love want, want, want Trampoline

thanks Julien
spoor
thumbs up Great stuff.

Would really like to build this - I hope someone comes up with some nice panels for this.
Barcode
Wow! This is fantastic. I am very interested! thumbs up
negativspace
I'm up for it if necessary.
sammy123
I am definitely interested.

Barcode...you should do a panel thumbs up
tIB
Interested!
memorygardens
very interested. Id love to just build a minimoog out right.
cj3000
applause applause Super nice project. Always wanted to Build a MOOG. Rockin' Banana!
Christoph
makers
I'd go for the whole enchilada at 60 hp!
abelovesfun
Would definitely buy all - I have a set of Estradin - 230 panels that this would be perfect for. please let me know when PCBs are available.
zamp
Awesome work! I am interested in joining in on this one, even though I shouldn't take on another build until I finish up a couple of others. I'll definitely be following your progress.
jdelgoulet
Wow ! I knew this project will be of great interest but feeling all your "love" (after spending more than a year on it) is just ... wow. Thanks guys !

The plan for the following days/week is to polish up the "Mini-modules" and have them all tested. I need to track down any "errors" in the PCB (By error I mean too close tracks etc that would prevent me for doing my own board).
Then, make the board, drill the whole (I must have drill thousands since the beginning), solder and test them.

Once this is done, back in eagle to update the 60HP panel that holds the pots, switches and some basic electronics.

I'll keep you posted !
4floorsofwhores
My want list just got a lot bigger. Good work for doing this
beyourdog
Putain, du beau boulot... thumbs up
Captain Sternn
Wow this is a really exciting project! Can't wait to see your progress and definitely interested! Mr. Green Rockin' Banana!
cleaninglady
negativspace wrote:
I'm up for it if necessary.


Trampoline
CV_Wonder
Big Love
delayed
[quote="jdelgoulet"]

As you might except, this will be a DIY project and I will propose PCBs, BOMs and schematics so that "everyone" can build his own Mini ;-)


That sounds like you are planing on releasing your etching files. That is super cool of you to offer that to the community.
LeftyLogic
Woah! eek! I would definitely be in for one of these!
pre55ure
Wow! Looks awesome...

Am definitely interested.

And thanks from all of us to your wife as well! hihi
spneca
Wow! I'm in!

Edit: For a full panel/pcb set.
xahdrez
This is fun!

Definitely interested!
diablojoy
very cool damn I am really tempted.
snaper
Count me in too.
fuzzbass
Ooooh. If I had a Mini Modules next to my TTSH, that would be the ultimate synth clone war.
oberling
fuzzbass wrote:
Ooooh. If I had a Mini Modules next to my TTSH, that would be the ultimate synth clone war.

Tell me about it grin after x0xb0x, crOwBX, and TTSH now a MiniMoog-Clone... that'd be so awesome... I am not even finished with the crOwBX and the TTSH also gets some more companions but why not do some of these projects in parallel? hyper
Senor
MY ASS IS BLEEDING we're not worthy
mothertongue
Awesome project, I'm definitely interested!
hv0190
I've got a huge backlog, but what the heck ...
I'm in if this materialises! thumbs up
Neovintage
Cool.

Ca m'intéresse également.
Isaiah
jdelgoulet
I've been thinking about this project quite a lot.

Maybe I am asking questions prematurely if you haven't finalised control PCBs yet, but I wondering a few things:
•There are more knobs on your prototype than a Minimoog - what are the extra controls? PW/PWM for each VCO? White/Pink noise blend?
•Will the variable PW/PWM replace any (or all) of the Square/Pulse I/Pulse II modes, or will it be an additional mode that can be selected?
•Will the control boards have mounting holes? I hope so! thumbs up
•I did have other questions but I forgot! hihi

The 60HP option is very tempting due the minimal (or complete lack of) wiring needed, but I have a stash of black Moog rocker switches that would be perfect for this project, so I'm very much looking forward to seeing how the individual control boards compare to the 60HP board.
Personally, I'd probably be happy building a 84HP or 4Ux17" version.

Never even considered the Minimoog as a real option before as it will never be within my budget.
Thanks for sharing your hard work!
Dubka
woah……

we're not worthy
nickster
A dream come true! Words can not adequately describe the joy at seeing this project. Backlog be damded I'm so very interetsed in this. Best of luck with the final stages. Hoping all works out nicely. nanners Rockin' Banana! The Chewbacca Defense
jdelgoulet
Isaiah wrote:

You are right. Each VCO has a PW knob and a PWM input jack (and instead of choosing 6 wave forms, you only choose between 4, the 4th one being the square wave which is PWMable). I also added a "modulation wheel" knob which set the level of modulation send to the VCO/VCF (hence the name). There are also 2 more switches which are used to sync VCO-2 and/or VCO-3 to VCO-1.
One more little tiny pot (far right bottom, between the jack) is the main volume. Apart from that, all the other control are the classic one.

The control board, for now, has holes for the "Mini-Modules". While using pin headers to hold them would be fine, 2 screws on each "Mini-Module" will prevent the card from drooping. Having 6 or 8 screws might be possible.

When designing the machine, it is very tempting to just add some more HP and get more functionality. For example, it would be nice to have 2 VCAs (2 jacks + 2 pots) to set the level of modulation send either to the VCO or VCF. But ... then, you'll want two more for the enveloppes, then midi ... etc etc.


[Progress]

* I will have the ADS/VCF/VCA/Preamp boards done and tested during the week-end. This is the xxxx times I making those so, they will work.
I also design a control board to hold them for testing purpose.

* I'm now re-routing (can't remember how many times I did that ...) the 60HP main board since, "Mini-Modules" are now mounted vertically. The tricky part are the VCOs : I want to keep them "horizontal" on the panel but , to support the Eurorack format", they have to be mounted vertically. So there is some head scratching to come ...


** This picture is a part of the VCO control section. This is the first pass routing which gives me an overview. Then I re-route trying to optimize path **
Isaiah
jdelgoulet
Thanks for the information.

I guess it makes sense to replace the Square/Pulse modes with a single Variable PW mode.
Glad to hear there is a (mod wheel) modulation control, I was wondering how the depth would be controlled. hihi
Sync sounds like another good addition.

A few more questions:
•Looks like the Mixer switches have been omitted, is that right?
•Will VCO 3 still have both rising and falling saw/ramp waves? Hope so!
•Looks like there are four switches near the filter - Keyboard Control 1/3 and 2/3, Filter Modulation and Decay (Release), is that right?

Keep up the good work! thumbs up
jdelgoulet
Isaiah
•Looks like the Mixer switches have been omitted, is that right? : true - I did not notice any bleed thru when level is at 0.
•Will VCO 3 still have both rising and falling saw/ramp waves? : of course ! w00t
•Looks like there are four switches near the filter - Keyboard Control 1/3 and 2/3, Filter Modulation and Decay (Release), is that right? : it is.
JohnLRice
jdelgoulet wrote:
Isaiah
•Looks like the Mixer switches have been omitted, is that right? : true - I did not notice any bleed thru when level is at 0.
The switches are very useful in performance. Maybe something to reconsider but don't do it for me since I won't be getting one. . . . because I have a huge 5U modular, a MiniMoog Model D and I'm unemployeed! Dead Banana
Isaiah
jdelgoulet
Thanks for clarifying!

The question now is whether I'll mount the pots and switches on the PCBs for an easy build and lose some of the performance aspects (proper mod wheel, Moog switches and more comfortable control spacing);
or use flying wires (urgh!) but gain a much more Moog-like panel.
Could even be a good candidate for building a keyboard monosynth... help

I guess I will weigh up the pros and cons once the the control boards are complete.
jdelgoulet
I'm open to any modification that could be done 'cos I'm pretty sure that most of you are better performer than I am (I like to build synth but curiously I'm not playing them a lot ...).

First I will stick with my original design. Then, why not see if for example, adding the VCO level on/off switch is a real add-on. This won't be hard to add at the end, but this will lead to a larger panel ...

Just for teasing ... I've just finished routing the Mini-Module VCO board so that it can fit horizontally behind the main board.
wired
Great project!
JohnLRice
jdelgoulet wrote:
First I will stick with my original design. Then, why not see if for example, adding the VCO level on/off switch is a real add-on. This won't be hard to add at the end, but this will lead to a larger panel ...
Hi,

I think if you just added jumper header pins on the PCB for optional features like mixer channel mutes etc then you and third parties could make small expander panels that plug into these option jumper? The module wouldn't require the expander module/panel and function as originally designed with jumpers on the pins.

It has worked well for Synth Tech as third party expansion panels have been especially popular for the E350 Morphing Terrarium VCO. People have added switches to select options and input attenuators etc to enhance the main module.









nickster
As some of the mini experience is down to the panel layout. I'm all for the possibility to have a more original style panel so flying wires may be how I would build this to acheive this. But if there was a way to have a break out socket for these I'd be really impressed.
But this is just an idea most definitely not a demand. Just to have this project as it is, is fabulous!
Dave Kendall
jdelgoulet - awesome project! :-)

For those that might want the Minimoog panel layout, there's THIS

(of course, a bunch of work and other parts like rocker switches would be needed, but this *is* the DIY forum right? smile

cheers,
Dave
Isaiah
jdelgoulet
Hmmm... I guess it's hard to satisfy everybody!
Perhaps there are some things that can be executed in a way that allow the builder to add modifications easily, like JLR suggested above.

Personally, I don't think 84HP would be a big sacrifice to have a full synth voice in one's rack, especially one so highly revered as the Minimoog.
It would afford the space for a more comfortable control layout and invite the user to "play" the synth, not tweak it delicately.
But maybe that's not a priority for the Euro format/crowd, I don't know.
The likelihood is that whatever you offer in the end, I will make it fit my personal plan, even if I have to wire every pot and switch off-board. Dead Banana

I get the feeling this question is going to be very premature, so forgive me if I'm a pain in the ass,
but is it possible to give a very rough estimate of the cost of components (new and obsolete) and a complete PCB set, please?
Really I just mean a ballpark figure like "300-500EUR for the whole thing."
Trying to budget for a lot of stuff in the Real World righ now, you see! hihi

Thanks again!
jdelgoulet
This is an interesting discussion and yes, it's hard to satisfy everybody !
When I started this project more than a year ago, the plan was clearly to make a clone. I mean, a clone , clone. (I still have a minimoog big panel in my garage near where I do the PCBs). As I didn't want to bother wiring every pots and switch, and didn't want to spend my money on huge PCBs, I made a scale down version. Then I saw it was possible to greatly reduce the size of the overall machine and while my Eagle skills were getting better days after days, I choose the Eurorack route.

One of the pictures I posted at the beginning of this thread is a prototype I did about 8 months ago. The big board with all the components contains the PSU, noise and modmix section, 3 VCOs, VCA VCF and preamp. (The contour generators were on the pot boards on the opposite side of the pot ... not that easy to solder and debug). So this board is nearly a "mini-voice" where connection to the pots board were made using 2*5 pins headers and ribbon cable.

Listening to your comments, I have a feeling that this could be the best compromise. Having a "mini-voice" that fits 60HP eurorack that could be use with another control board (this does not change my plans), or, alone with some breakout board so you guys can wire pots and switch.

Having 3M type connectors open-up to more DIY projects than the use of pin headers where you, DIYers, will have to follow my rules (pin headers placement, orientation, size etc)
Isaiah
jdelgoulet
A breakout PCB sounds like a good solution for those who don't wish to build a Eurorack module.
So the non-Euro option could consist of a Minimoog voice PCB and a breakout PCB for wiring the pots and switches?
Or would the breakout PCB act as a host for a set of your smaller PCBs?

Also, I don't think anyone has asked yet:
•Which version of the VCO did you clone?
•Have you included any mods (octave buffer etc)?
I must admit, I haven't read much about the various Minimoog revisions, but I'm curious to hear which one you chose and if you felt any of the tuning stability mods were necessary with modern components.

Does your project include a headphone amp?
Unlike the perhaps unnecessary A440 oscillator, it does seem to be used as part of the Minimoog's sound (fed back into the external input) not just as a utility.
Perhaps the feedback trick is easily accomplished in a modular environment without the headphone amp though.

Lastly, one possible mod that could be interesting (and this is by no means a demand) is to replace the mod wheel/modulation depth pot with an optocoupler.
Voltage-controlled modulation depth!
Resistor values would have to be adjusted so there is negligible modulation depth when "off" as the optocoupler's "on" resistance might be, say, 1K or more.
Just an idea, it could be a lot more trouble than it's worth though.

Apologies for bombarding you with questions! hihi
jdelgoulet
Quote:
Isaiah


•Which version of the VCO did you clone? : Rev 2.0 That's mean, the one with the CA3046 based expo conveter which still has the all transistors core oscillator.
•Have you included any mods (octave buffer etc)? : well, the circuitry is the same as the rev 2.0 and includes all "factory" mods (tempco on top of CA3046, RC network near the expo , centered pitch bitch bend , octave bugger etc).
•Does your project include a headphone amp? 440 ? : no 440 and yes the preamp (not the headphone) is there so you can achieve the main out -> preamp trick.

•replace the mod wheel/modulation depth pot with an optocoupler : if you read carefully my previous post, I talk about it. For now this is a pot. But other options like a VCA might be possible. Also I'm not sure I'll have enough free space on the board to add such circuitry. We'll see.
baloo
Salut!
Interested in your project, count on me for one set.
Guinness ftw!
lintfresh
Very cool project!

Watching with interest. hyper
f_le_francais
Dave Kendall wrote:
For those that might want the Minimoog panel layout, there's THIS

(of course, a bunch of work and other parts like rocker switches would be needed, but this *is* the DIY forum right? smile


Yes !!!!!
And more It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners It's peanut butter jelly time! :


memorygardens
Personally i dont have a eurorack system. I would love to build the case and buy that minimoog panel. I just want an out right minimoog clone. I have no i idea how but i want it!!!!!
Don T
memorygardens wrote:
Personally i dont have a eurorack system. I would love to build the case and buy that minimoog panel. I just want an out right minimoog clone. I have no i idea how but i want it!!!!!


I'm working on something like this. Almost to the testing phase.
jdelgoulet
memorygardens wrote:
Personally i dont have a eurorack system. I would love to build the case and buy that minimoog panel. I just want an out right minimoog clone. I have no i idea how but i want it!!!!!


Well, the board is eurorack compatible in size but the onboard PSU can handle +-20 V DC input. So is compatible with eurorack, synth.com, MOTM and any PSU of your choice.
whoop_john
Je te remercie pour le beau travail jusqu'à maintenant et je tiens absolument à faire un de ces ensemble de modules. Peut vivre longtemps ce projet. Bravo! Me pardonne, je parle français comme une vache espagnole.
DYLAN
Congratulations looks great! I'll be way watching this count me in when your done applause
jdelgoulet
Hi everyone,

[Progress] As stated previously I made the "final" version of the VCF/VCA/Preamp and Contours generators mini-modules this week-end.
I've been able to test them all together and they're all working great !
(Definitly Moogish .. . if that means something ...)

It's now time to move on to the Mini-Module VCOs. PCB are ready to be etched and like other mini-modules, should work straight out !

I might have something to show you either this week-end or beginning next week : I mean ... some audio It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners

snaper
jdelgoulet wrote:
Hi everyone,

[Progress] As stated previously I made the "final" version of the VCF/VCA/Preamp and Contours generators mini-modules this week-end.
I've been able to test them all together and they're all working great !
(Definitly Moogish .. . if that means something ...)

It's now time to move on to the Mini-Module VCOs. PCB are ready to be etched and like other mini-modules, should work straight out !

I might have something to show you either this week-end or beginning next week : I mean ... some audio It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners


Silly questuion : will you publish the etch files?
If yes...how did you make those double sided stuffs looks soooo good?
jdelgoulet
Quote:
Silly question : will you publish the etch files?


That's the plan. I'll do a run for the big board and I might also do a run for the mini-modules (so if you want to support the project and the others that are in the pipe ... hihi )

Quote:
how did you make those double sided stuffs looks soooo good?
I have a double side UV exposure unit with and air pump so the film master is nicely compressed onto the PCB. I'm also using a high quality, high density transparent sheet (140u) (the later has been a real saver compared to transparent film you can buy from any DIY shop).
I etch using "Persulfate". A bit expensive, but less dirty than other methods.

With this method I can achieve tracks down to 0.01 inch. But I try to do all my PCb with 0.024 and 0.016 tracks.

Since I have this setup, all the PCB I make are good. No more etching issue

I'm using an electric tile cutter to cut PCB. While it's working great , it is not as easy as a special PCB cutter ..
snaper
Nice grin
nickster
Double nice ! applause
bkbirge
Cool project, put me on the list if there is one.
jdelgoulet
[Progress] : VCO-1 is alive. It's peanut butter jelly time! All waveforms look good. Square is not that square but this is due to the fact that I took the photos without any CV at the input. (The signal frequency is the default one of the VCO core. Once you add CV (keyboard, octave, etc) frequency goes up and square output gets better).

I will now build another one and make sure that my bl**** VCO cross-mod has disappeared. (From my previous tests, it should work but it's better to test with what should be the latest design).

wired
Great project!
memorygardens
This is seriously better then having friends. Count me in for one of the big boards. or minis, no sure yet. Any price estimates on the pcbs? screaming goo yo
Isaiah
I'm looking forward to hearing this in action! Rockin' Banana!
Keep up the excellent work! thumbs up
estructure
Really like it !!!!! Waiting for the pcbs and bombs! Rockin' Banana! Rockin' Banana!
Eloc
jdelgoulet wrote:



I would frame this circuit board and put it on my wall.

(if you have a spare home etched controller board when you finish I would definitely buy it and mount my build behind a clear panel... just saying)
jdelgoulet
Quote:
Eloc



Too bad ... The finish version of the control board is far less impressive. This one has on the far right (you can't see it on the picture, it's on the other side) , the complete contour generators circuit ;-)
I abandoned this 'cos it was to much trouble to solder for a DIY project.

Wait for the final big board Guinness ftw! ... the one you see was an early prototype. There is only 3 VCOs, Noise, ModMix VCF , VCA and pre-amp. The finish one will have everything on it ... (That is PSU, contour generators, glide circuit and something I'm keeping secret for now - if that fits - w00t )
Isaiah
jdelgoulet wrote:
(That is... something I'm keeping secret for now - if that fits - w00t )


Cow Synthesiser? hmmm.....




hihi
ben_hex
Looking forward to seeing this all come to life, especially if there's a Manhattan Analog / Negativespace panel option for a 60hp mini moog! w00t
bkbirge
ben_hex wrote:
Looking forward to seeing this all come to life, especially if there's a Manhattan Analog / Negativespace panel option for a 60hp mini moog! w00t


+1,000,000
bkbirge
jdelgoulet wrote:
and something I'm keeping secret for now - if that fits - w00t )


Sonic 6 ring mod circuit?
seepaxton
this project is just excellent!!!! stick me down for whatever you have coming out!!
jdelgoulet
Quote:
Sonic 6 ring mod circuit?
Nope hihi However, this is something a friend of mine requested. That would be possible. The only thing is that you would need a pot to control the Ring Mod level in the mixer section and the panel is full... May be something for a keyboard version ... 8_)

[Progress] : Today I tested the last 3 boards :
- VCO -3 -> OK
- MixMod/Noise -> OK
- Glide -> OK

So from now, I will concentrate on the best way to have all the boards connected together having in mind that some of you want connectors for off-board wiring and personally I want a simple approach for the Eurorack 60HP version.
My first thought would be using dedicated cables for each board PSU lines and 3M connectors (thing ribbon cable) for data. We'll see.

As usual, some pictures of the latest (and last It's peanut butter jelly time! ) 3 boards :
tripper
great project thumbs up i am in It's motherfucking bacon yo
jdelgoulet
[Progress] Found a little mistake on each VCO PCB which has been fixed using some wire jumpering. Otherwise, they are working great. So, instead of doing another run of each, I will start assembling the big board ... Stay tuned !
aladan
I would love to buy one set. Maybe two. Heck, maybe more ;-)
InfraXpert
Put me on the list - this is great hyper
salih03
woooow! applause
mckenic
Yup!

Rather than following this thread (as I have been from the start) I decided to post my interest in whatever you end up doing with these - VERY exciting!!!

thumbs up
wired
Looking forward to hear audio demo's Rockin' Banana!
jdelgoulet
[Progress] : I'm still working on the the 60HP version. I had an issue with the VCOs (cross modulation issue) that was not in my prototype ... This is the sort of things that happen when you want to replace a good big LDO by a smaller cheaper one. Unfortunately, I did not have enough in stock so I ordered some from Farnell, and will receive them tomorrow. Hopefully I will have the 60HP version done during the week-end.
I know some of you are waiting for some audio demos I promised last week confused but I changed my mind and would like first to concentrate on the 60HP version and do the demos with it Mr. Green

Stay tune. It's coming ...
wired
applause
jdelgoulet
As you can see, no more place for a surprise seriously, i just don't get it

HE10 connectors are the link between the control panel and the analog board. (Quick , easy, fast)
The "3 headers" connectors are used to distribute +10/-10, +12/-12 etc to each part of the analog board. This allows some sort of "star distribution" but also a way for DIYers to test each part (VCOs/VCF/VCA etc) of the board separately. (You don't want to blow a VCO simply 'cos you put a transistor backward in the Modulation-Mix part ... Mr. Green )

Isaiah
jdelgoulet
Looking good! thumbs up

What are the three red squares with 5 pins?
Isaiah
jdelgoulet
Also, do you know how to add Linear FM inputs to the VCOs?
Not asking for new features, just wondered if you knew how to achieve this.
I'm hoping that if Linear FM can be added, Linear Detune might also be possible...

Did you say there are buffered VCO and EG outputs, and individual 1V/Oct and PWM inputs per VCO available for patching?
jdelgoulet
Quote:
What are the three red squares with 5 pins?
Those are LDO regulators that are used to isolate the VCO core from the general +10V/-10V. You better have them otherwise you will live in cross modulation wonderland.

Quote:
Also, do you know how to add Linear FM inputs to the VCOs?
Hum ... my first guess would be to take the output of an opamp adder (so 2 opamps) and feed that to the -4V input of each VCO current loop. (May worth a try on the eurorack single version)

Quote:
Did you say there are buffered VCO and EG outputs available for patching?
EG yes. VCO yes and no. Right now, I have two different control board designs. One integrates buffered EG, buffered VCO outputs (pre mixer) + VCO-1/VCO-2/VCO-3 CV inputs. The other one has only buffered EG but 3 more modulation inputs for each VCO ... There is only place for 18/19 jacks so I will have to make a choice.

In all case, there is a 4 pins headers for the VCOs signal (pre-mixer) (VCO 1 to 3 + ground). I also added another one for noise outputs (WHITE/RED/PINK/GROUND). So it will be easy to have an external 2 or 4 HP module to buffer them. (Both pin headers are on the control board)
salih03
please put me on the list, if there is one !
SlayerBadger!
demian
In the original minimoog there were used two ua726's. I don't read anything about it in this thread, did you substitute them with something?

Also interested in a PCB set BTW. :-)
latigid on
Somewhere near the middle of the board you can see 6 pin circular outlines for transistor cans. Are these the 726s?
xpmtl
As seen on page 1 :

All the design are exact replica of the Minimoog rev 2.0 (the one based on CA3046 expo converters) and are all using thru-whole components (excepted a few components that only exist in SMD packages)
Check Mate
This is fantastic and I'd love to have a Panel+PCB Set as well! we're not worthy
Isaiah
The first post explains that jdelgoulet is copying the V2 Minimoog which uses CA3046 instead of the V3 which I believe uses the UA726.
Isaiah
xpmtl
Beat me to it! hihi
Jarno
Julien, great project!
I have a question on the design, I am currently laying out a board which has both the vcf and vca of the mini (it seems a lot of people are working on mini related projects grin), and I currently have not added any (opamp) buffers for control voltages or audio signals. Most of the other projects (yusynth, bergfotron) seem to have them. Did you feel the need to add them, or does all work well without?
They are not on your small functional boards,I think, but you might have added them to your bigger control board.
home_listening
Great looking work! Am keen on the whole thing!
stefanovic
Very, very nice project, count me in for PCBs!
jdelgoulet
Quote:
Jarno
This is not mandatory, however if I were to design a single VCF/VCA module (so for a modular synth) I would add them. In my layout there are buffers for things that normaly don't have outputs in the real mini (like Enveloppes/VCO outputs).
notmiserlouagain
jdelgoulet wrote:



Some of the nicest double sided home etching I have ever seen, gotta get into that too, so neat and no more jumpers!

Handmade rules!
home_listening
Just thinking this would be perfect as a standalone in a small MFB Kraftzwerk style case...

SlayerBadger!
bkbirge
home_listening wrote:
Just thinking this would be perfect as a standalone in a small MFB Kraftzwerk style case...


I was thinking this might be a candidate to replace my euro version Kraftzwergs.
jdelgoulet
Thread is back ! Hands up for Mister Muffwiggler applause SlayerBadger!

I've just started working again on the 60HP version after a long winter holidays break ! (Well ... a break on the Mini as I've been designing "home etchable" ambika voice cards and built a 6 voices ambika for a french artist. )

[Progress] :

I finally managed to add a dual VCA that allows the use of a normal potentiometer for the "modulation wheel" and an input jack to control the modulation level from an external source.

I'm still fighting to remove some ripple going out from the VCOs (like in the real mini). I'm testing new LDO from TI that have a high PSSR this week-end in the hope it will resolve this issue. So fingers crossed !
Peake
Why remove a behaviour present in the real Mini? :( People have "improved" the life and character out of other vintage gear; please re-consider.
DJBRUTAL
Peake wrote:
Why remove a behaviour present in the real Mini? :( People have "improved" the life and character out of other vintage gear; please re-consider.


_______ I agree!

Very excited about this project hyper Can't wait to build my own MiniMoog
jdelgoulet
Don't tell me this guys cry The ripple issue has been my main problem as soon as I started making the mini for the eurorack format.
The issue is that the ripple affects the -12V line. Meaning that, if you have other modules in your case, like a VCO for example, you will ear a very small "modulation" when VCO, on the mini, is io "LOW" or "32" position.

On the other hand, the last few days, after chatting with friends, they made the same comment. Arguing that with a 60HP version, the typical 84HP 1U case is nearly full (just the place for a LFO and a midi /cv-gate interface). So, like you, they don't bother ...
Starspawn
Id agre with it not being to important, I would put it in its own case with some interface modules, not have it in a big rack with other stuff.
But why a negative consequence is wanted if its possible to for instance filter it out without affecting the core ... I dunno, some improvements are fixes, not changes.
jdelgoulet
Moog engineers did try to remove this ripple. The original PSU has sense lines going to the oscillator board to minimize the issue. When I first discovered this ripple (which was terrible when I was not using LDO), I decide to make a carbon copy of the Moog Oscillators and PSU boards. I can tell you that , without the sense line, it's just a mess !
With the sense lines you can still ear it (We did a test on a real Minimoog : listening to oscillator 1 on 4" or 8", all oscillator switches off. Put oscillator 3 in LO position and play with the frequency. It's audible, we can hear oscillator 3 modulating oscillator 1).

Now it's an "engineer thing". Usually when you play a mini and you have OSC3 in LO freq it's to add modulation so, the ripple is mix with the audio and nobody notices it. My friends who owns the mini never noticed it until I show him. Sometimes people thing is a bleeding problem on pots. While it can be true, there is also a ripple issue.

This week-end, I'm testing the new LDO and will also do a test with a yusynth VCO plugged into the same PSU bus and see how it goes.
jdelgoulet
Also this "improvement" does not affect the circuitry at all. It's a just a matter of isolating each of the VCO core from the rest of the circuit.

PS : one thing I noticed, is that, on the 16HP single VCO version, I did not have this issue. I guess having the VCOs so close to each other on the 60HP version might also be part of the problem.
Peake
Do what you've gotta do...
tobb
interesting,din't know the mini had that problem.

cool if you get rid of that in your replica! thumbs up
wired
Looking forward building this one!
jdelgoulet
Here we are ...
Still checking things here and there, but everything is working great. And, most of all, sounds great !
As you can see the majorities of modules are on separate PCBs. I went that route again for debugging the whole machine.




As for the ripple issue ... it is gone. yeah ! w00t I've been testing with high end LDOs but thought that they might be too difficult to solder for beginners. Then I found the right ones.
On the left, you can see the MSOP8 LDOs board, on the right that's TO263 and SOT223 - much easier !



Once everything has been checked, I'll do another 60HP PCBs with Thonkiconn jacks and run the final tests. We are close to the end nanners
mOBiTh
w00t w00t
tobb
awesome work!
fredp
Ça arrache!! Great work!!
Isaiah
Fantastic work! thumbs up

I'm keen to see the control/switch/in/out specification, and hear it making some noise of course!
TheDegenerateElite
Very nice work.

Excited for this!!!

Such a great time to be a synth fiend!
oscarthesquirrel
Fantastic - I appreciate what you're doing so much!
spoor
jdelgoulet wrote:
...
There will be also 7 "Controller boards" :
- One for each mini-module (so you get an eurorack version of each for example).
- Another, my favorite one, which is 60HP eurorack version where 3VCOs, VCF etc plug into. ( I choose 60 HP so that if you have a 84HP case, you still have some room for a real LFO, a midi/CV interface etc)
...


jdelgoulet - Not sure if this is a daft question or not - is there any normalling between the modules in the 60HP version?
jdelgoulet
Nope. The project started with the concept of mini-modules in the hope they will fit the 60HP version which didn't.
The thing is the "mini-modules" or , if you prefer the single module eurorack version have to be redrawn as connectors between "the pot board" and the "core board" are at the top and bottom of the boards instead of the left and right side which is a pain as they come against the jacks etc

[If by normaling we are talking space arrangement within the 60HP]
Starspawn
I think by normaling he means connections between patch point that goes through the switched pins on the jack sockets. From filter to Amp and so on.

Great work btw, will definetly get the Euro board when done smile
jdelgoulet
Oh get it !
The 60HP is not "that" modular.
There are :
-CV
-Gate
-Ext modulation level (CV from a modulation wheel for example)
-CV VCO-1
-CV VCO-2
-CV VCO-3 (those 3 Cvs allow to play the mini in paraphonic mode)
-EXT-VCO-CV (like the real mini)
-VCO-1-PWM
-VCO-2-PWM
-VCO-3-PWM
-EXT-VCF (like the real mini)
-EXT-VCA (like the real mini)
-EXT-AUDIO-IN (like the real mini)
-VCF-ADS-OUT (buffered - can be select pre-post VCF amount knob using a jumper)
-VCA-ADS-OUT (buffered)
-AUDIO OUT LOW
-AUDIO OUT HIGH


Also, on the PCB that holds the pot, there are 2 connectors :
One outputs the 4 noises waveform + ground
One outputs the selected waveform of each VCO + ground
Isaiah
jdelgoulet wrote:
Oh get it !
The 60HP is not "that" modular.
There are :
-CV
-Gate
-Ext modulation level (CV from a modulation wheel for example)
-CV VCO-1
-CV VCO-2
-CV VCO-3 (those 3 Cvs allow to play the mini in paraphonic mode)
-EXT-VCO-CV (like the real mini)
-VCO-1-PWM
-VCO-2-PWM
-VCO-3-PWM
-EXT-VCF (like the real mini)
-EXT-VCA (like the real mini)
-EXT-AUDIO-IN (like the real mini)
-VCF-ADS-OUT (buffered - can be select pre-post VCF amount knob using a jumper)
-VCA-ADS-OUT (buffered)
-AUDIO OUT LOW
-AUDIO OUT HIGH


Also, on the PCB that holds the pot, there are 2 connectors :
One outputs the 4 noises waveform + ground
One outputs the selected waveform of each VCO + ground


That sounds really good!
VCF EG output -> External Mod CV input Rockin' Banana!

Thanks for your had work on this. thumbs up

A few things I'm curious about:
What is the difference between the CV input and the EXT-VCO-CV input?

I assume the CV input is the master CV (all three VCOs and the VCF) and the only CV processed by the Glide circuit, right?
CV VCO 1/2/3 all act in addition to the main CV input, is that right?

Do I recall you saying that all the VCOs now just have a "Square" wave, not Square and two Pulse waves like the original?
Also, does each VCO have its own Pulse Width control as well as PWM CV input?
I might have imagined this! hihi
punkerdood
Love it. I wish I had the time.
jdelgoulet
Quote:
What is the difference between the CV input and the EXT-VCO-CV input?


On the Mini, EXT-VCO-CV is common to all VCOs and is connected to the +10V. So input get shifted.
CV VCO-1, 2 and 3 are just 1V/oct inputs (glide is bypassed) and took over the "main" CV input.
For example, you can have :
Midi/CV channel 1 to the CV VCO-1 -> play a "one oscillator" (VCO-1) sequence
Midi/CV channel 2 to the main CV -> play a "dual oscillator" (VCO-2 and 3) sequence

etc etc



Quote:
Do I recall you saying that all the VCOs now just have a "Square" wave, not Square and two Pulse waves like the original?
Also, does each VCO have its own Pulse Width control as well as PWM CV input?


That's right. You select Square wave then play with the PW know and/or use the PWM CV inputs.
spoor
Starspawn wrote:
I think by normaling he means connections between patch point that goes through the switched pins on the jack sockets. From filter to Amp and so on.


Yeah that's what I thought I meant! Thanks for clarifying.

Starspawn wrote:

Great work btw, will definetly get the Euro board when done smile

Me too - can't wait.
calaveras
great I just wet my pants and I am at work.
Good thing I keep emergency pants in my file cabinet.
nickster
The Chewbacca Defense time for the wookie to dance. Excellent work sir!
noddyspuncture
jdelgoulet
Hi,
I saw your recent post about your 'Mini" Minimoog.... and your comments on components used. I have a question please.

I have built a Moog 901b oscillator clone, and it works fine - only I cannot get it to 'calibrate' with the tracking control.

I have a component layout which asks for a couple of 2N4058 transistors with very high 'hfe' values... 325 and 316.

Since my module seems to work in every other way, but cannot be brought into spec calibration wise, I am suspecting that my transistors in these places are not of a high enough 'hfe'

Please could you tell me if maybe you could help with these... or point me to somewhere I could get the required 'hfe' rated 2N4058's (or the 2N3906 equivalents)

Thanks for any help you can give me...

Cheers,
Tom
Isaiah
jdelgoulet
Thanks for clarifying!

Does anybody know if it's possible to add linear detuning to the Minimoog's VCOs?
I'm hoping this would only entail something like J. Haible's use of a pot and three resistors wired to a point in his Living VCOs, so that it could be easily added.
yan6
This definitly has me interested. Im on my phone now and cant wait to look through the rest of this thread on my computer.
jdelgoulet
Sorry for the long silence. Lots of work outside DIY but the project is ending slowly.
I had to completely redesign the control board ( very frustrating ) due to Mouser not keeping components in stock : one day they can sell you one piece, 2 months later you have to buy them by the 1000 angry angry What is the point Mouser ? If I need 1000 pieces, I'll directly contact the manufacturer ... anyway ...

The new board is based on 16mm alpha pot and alpha "Lorlin" type rotary switch so they can easily be found at any electronic shop. So more DIY friendly.
The board now uses "Thonkiconn" 3.5 mm jacks. They will be place on a dedicated board 'cos they are too small for the alpha rotary switch.

Tease w00t

lvoemachine
such a fantastic project.
zvonx
wow, great work Sir!
Isaiah
jdelgoulet
Your work ethic is an inspiration. thumbs up

Can I ask what the knob/switch layout is?
I'm assuming that the two pots near the inputs and outputs are external input volume and output volume.

Also, what is the spacing between the main pot shafts?
Just wondering what the realistic maximum knob diameter would be.
latigid on
Any particular reason to switch to Thonkiconn? The PJ301/Erthenvar type have more robust mounting IMO. It's your project of course!
jdelgoulet
Quote:
Any particular reason to switch to Thonkiconn?


I agree with you on that one. Erthenvar mounting is more robust but I don't like soldering them ... You have to drill 2.5 mm holes and, if you don't solder them perfectly the first time, you might put some solder within the jack (when trying to fill the 2.5mm hole).
cleahy
Oof, this looks amazing!
wired
What is the status on this project? Really looking forward to building my mini hihi
Broadwave
Oh, Heckers!!!

Why does this always happen to me? First the TTSH, and now a Minimoog clone.

I could have saved so much heartache and frustration, if only I'd waited for someone else to do the grunt-work d'oh!

Great job... I could still be tempted applause
nickster
Broadwave wrote:
Oh, Heckers!!!

Why does this always happen to me? First the TTSH, and now a Minimoog clone.

I could have saved so much heartache and frustration, if only I'd waited for someone else to do the grunt-work d'oh!

Great job... I could still be tempted applause


That's because your excellent work is here to inspire us applause applause
jdelgoulet
Hi guys !

So sorry for being silent ... A last minute "bug" came into the party. I had issue with the preamp even if it's the simplest circuit in the mini very frustrating
Had to use, like on the real one, shielded cable from the pot/jack to the preamp-input otherwise you get a nice sine wave ...
Now everyhting is working. Also, I must admit ... I started playing with it a bit ... god ... well you'll hear Mr. Green hihi

I also redesigned the control board to handle 16mm Alpha pot (to go along with the alpha rotary switch).
Now connections between control and analog boards is done thru pin header. Plug and play, no wiring at all.

I had to dig to find toggle switches models that could fit the height of the pot and rotary switch. Was not that easy actually but find 2 APEM models. Available at Mouser/Farnell etc

I've also been working on the front panel. I will have a prototype for this one, hopefully, at the end of the month.

(PS : to make this front panel I coded some javascript to have svg rendering in the browser so I can easily update pot labels, marking etc and then do a final edit in Affinity Designer - will show you that one day ;-) as it might come in handy for others ... If there is a great UI dev on muff ... )
nickster
Excellent news, glad to hear of your progress. nanners
nidas
Great project - sign me up for a "kit" whem it gets available!

cheers
Neutron7
Jdelgoulet, sometimes mouser part will change to "1000 minimum" but then if you search for just the manufacturers part number, you will find a different listing that has singles.
jdelgoulet
@Neutron7 : True but in this case they don't. But never mind, now I'm using the classical lorlin type rotary switch so everyone will find them easily razz (Lorlin, Alpha, no-name ...)
Dogma
IS there somewhere to express intrest?
jdelgoulet
@Dogma : here I guess w00t
brother303
Very nice project, call me interested!

Guinness ftw!
mush
I'm interested in PCB and Panel-PCB - but not faceplate.

/Rasmus
fredp
Julien, je suis intéressé par les PCBs et le boitier...
i am interested in the PCBs and frontpanel...
kinrat
I'm in for pcb and panel whenever it comes along smile
mOBiTh
I'd love a full set but would love to design my own front panel - is there likely to be a Schaeffer/FPD format template available by any chance?!
LudfisterSound
I'll take the PCBs at least. I'd like to see the panel first though.
monstrinho
This is probably a lot to ask, but would it be possible to alter the jack footprint to accommodate both 3.5mm jacks and bananas (like the Befaco modules)? I'd be very interested in building this either way, but I'd really prefer to do it with bananas. I'd also echo mOBiTh's question; any chance of FPD files for the front panels?
apoisontree
I'm in for the PCBs and possibly the panel (depending on the look, size and price).
Thanks
davide3737
Looks fantastic. I'm in for the set of PCBs and panel.
RadekTymecki
i'm in but need to see panel first.
wired
I'm interested!
BARE BONES
pcbs and panel please!
Starspawn
PCB and possible panel (no specific preference, just like to see first).
smcumber
Interested in this also
Axum
Very interested in a pcb or two?

Keep up the excellent work

Axum
Grumskiz
I'm also interested, but I would also like to take a look at the panel before I make my decission smile
Awesome work!
fragletrollet
Also interested in the pcb/panel/parts kit when available... Guinness ftw!
sumdumguy
i would be interrsted in a eurorack board set and panel
sk23
Hi thank you for the project!

I'm really interested to buy it as when will be available.
jdelgoulet
Hi everyone !

I've now finished the first prototype with home-made PCBs. Everything is working as expected. I lost time making the pre-amp working ... ( With a gain of 200, if you don't "guard" the input and output then the pre-amp start oscillating).

I started working on the front panel just to realize that, if you want to put "Moog Style 3/4 " knobs, then there is no much place for the drawing...
So, went back in eagle and extend the space between knob, ended up re-drawing the control board PCB and also moved some connectors on the analog board.

Now, before getting the board manufactured, I'll do another prototype with the new control board, the updated analog board and the new panel design.


For people asking for banana : lucky you, the jacks are on a separate PCB. So one solution would be to just "not use" it, or better, roll your own (or have someone do it for ya).

For the panel : yes, of course, I'll provide the drilling template.

I'll post some pictures of the prototype tomorrow. For now, here a first attempt at the front panel :
tIB
That looks killer! Did someone say banana version? Look forward to seeing how this developes....
seepaxton
once again - i just wanna say that this is an excellent project AND put me down for two of whatever you have (pcbs and panelsx2)
SlayerBadger!
Isaiah
jdelgoulet
Well done! This looks even better than I had hoped! woah
mothertongue
Looks amazing!
memorygardens
shit is looking dope as hell. Really excited about this project. how hard would it be to wire it for this panel, http://www.ebay.com/itm/Moog-Minimoog-Model-D-Replacement-Faceplate-/3 01114110956?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item461bccb3ec ????!? i sorta want mine to look and feel like a minimoog. I am down for pcbs
widdly
Yay for bananability! I'll take 2 of everything It's peanut butter jelly time!


You are probably aware, but the panel art above has the waveform controls wrong.
jdelgoulet
memorygardens : You could use potentiometers with solder lugs and wire from the pot directly onto the control board. You will also have to have the "mixer section" resistors solder on the pot side. Nothing to complicated here.
The only thing that will be "difficult" are the switches. First you'll have to find some that fit nicely in the panel then find a way of fixing them onto your panel (I guess the panel you link to does not have mounting screws like on the real mini - On a Minimoog, the panel is "just" an overlay that hide the bare metal case.. Look at the following pictures, you'll see that on both side of each switch they "solder" nuts so you can screw the switches on.).


jdelgoulet
widdly yes hyper . It's because in the software I wrote for making panels, I do not handle yet "graphical" elements on potentiometers or switches.
jdelgoulet
Some picture of the prototype. Panel width is 84HP on those pictures (only metal plate I could find in my storage) but real size is 60HP. The next prototype will take more space verticaly. Basically there is about 1.2inch between pots centers.
You'll notice the jack board PCB that is connected to the control board using MicroMatch connectors (if you are short in money you could simply but wires ...).
Also, the black cable you see is the preamp input shielded cable. Might be the only wiring on this project w00t






mush
Looks brilliant!
jdelgoulet
On the following picture, you'll notice that potentiometers are not "totaly in place". It has been a nightmare finding a rotary switch that goes well with the 16mm alpha pots. very frustrating I'm not yet totally satisfy with this. But the issue might comes from the fact that the panel is 2.6mm thick. So having a 1.5mm panel might allow to have the pots better in place and have enough height to screw them on the panel. You'll see. (Anyway it's working like that with home made PCBs so will work even better with plated holes).

By the way, if anyone knows where to buy the "mini chicken head" knobs ... (without a 2000 MOQ of course Mr. Green )


widdly
Small Bear has mini chicken heads.

http://smallbear-electronics.mybigcommerce.com/mini-chicken-heads/
jdelgoulet
widdly Thanks, but I'm looking for chicken head knobs that match the "cosmo style" ones. I know there is a thread here on muff. Those are the one used on the Moog Sub37. I guess they are customed made ...

May be those could be an alternative ... More in the "RA Moog", old Mini style
cool
Macron
Nice compact design! Any sound demo?
Thalassa
jdelgoulet wrote:


I'll post some pictures of the prototype tomorrow. For now, here a first attempt at the front panel :



This project is amazing! we're not worthy we're not worthy

Just in case you didn't realize there is a mistake in the front panel , the wave selectors switches have the same graphics as the range switches.
mush
deleted
nickster
This is looking fantastic!

Thanks for all the hard work! Looking very much forward to getting both the plate and the pcbs.
I'm seeking out small chicken heads for you but so far not finding any eek! I'm sure they are lurking somewhere. You can get small normal Moog style knobs from Small Bear (if the ones you are already using are not the same). we're not worthy
jdelgoulet
Knobs on the picture are from Big Blue Wave. I ordered some from Smallbear but then realized they were for Knurled Shaft ...
A good place is Banzaï Music. They have them in 10 different colors (Mini Polar anyone ? w00t )
nickster
jdelgoulet wrote:
Knobs on the picture are from Big Blue Wave. I ordered some from Smallbear but then realized they were for Knurled Shaft ...
A good place is Banzaï Music. They have them in 10 different colors (Mini Polar anyone ? w00t )


Are these any use?

https://www.banzaimusic.com/Synth-knob-Synthie-1.html
livefreela
re: omitting the jackboard for a 4u build, are any of the jacks switched? if this can be done without a toggle switch bonanza, i'm thinking this could be really cool to stick behind a serge-esque panel...
jdelgoulet
Too big. Diameter should be no more than 3/4 inch ...
jdelgoulet
livefreela Some of the jack use switching if not most of them ...

- CV out from the glide is connected to CV1 CV2 CV3 so when you plug a jack in CV1, VCO-1 is disconnected from the main CV etc
- VCA CV switch is connected to +10V (like on the Minimoog)
- all other jacks except Main out / Low out / VCF env / VCA Env / GATE have switches connected to ground.
BARE BONES
I'm in for a pcb and panel please!
Thalassa
jdelgoulet wrote:
A good place is Banzaï Music. They have them in 10 different colors (Mini Polar anyone ? w00t )


Be careful with Banzai. I've ordered few months ago the same kind of knobs and after pay them they send me an e-mail that the knobs were out of stock. After that I checked again the website still showing them as full stock. I could change my order for the same knob in other color but I would ask before order them.
Jop
Great project Julien

I'm in for a pcb & panel for sure SlayerBadger!
depth20
I'm also in for a pcb & panel!
jdelgoulet
Thalassa Thanks for the tip !
papaZooZoo
Count me to PCB and panel please
fluffymuff
I'm definitely in for a PCB set + Panel... this looks stunning! Great work!
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
That looks fantastic, Julien.

Will you be posting the PCB art publicly? I like to etch and drill my own.

I'm happy to pay for the privilege, of course.
home_listening
Looking great!

Is anyone else going to make like... 4 of them?
spneca
I'm in for a PCB and panel.
jdelgoulet
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch : yes, I will. Have in mind that the PCB layout cannot be printed with an A4 printer - even if your printer allow to print without margin. Also, there is a lot of "via" (specially on the control board, you'll see I choose a square pad to identify them). But the trickiest part is "to not forget to solder component pins on both side for some of them.
livefreela
thanks for the response! looks like i'll be doing this one in euro wink

jdelgoulet wrote:
livefreela Some of the jack use switching if not most of them ...

- CV out from the glide is connected to CV1 CV2 CV3 so when you plug a jack in CV1, VCO-1 is disconnected from the main CV etc
- VCA CV switch is connected to +10V (like on the Minimoog)
- all other jacks except Main out / Low out / VCF env / VCA Env / GATE have switches connected to ground.
steffensen
Totally down for a PCB/Panel set too. thumbs up
apoisontree
I'm definitely in for the PCBs and panel.
RadekTymecki
but why there are 6 octave switches?
Isaiah
Didn't you know it's been hotrodded with three extra VCOs?



hihi
Julien said the panel was just a quick first draft as the script he wrote doesn't currently support graphics.
scorbie
I'm definitely interested in PCB and panel.
Will go well with my Steffcorp 2600 case!
brother303
In for a panel/pcb set!

Guinness ftw!

Cheers
Greg
Protofrangiste
Great project! I'm in for a PCB and a panel...
Isaiah
jdelgoulet
Apologies if I've asked these questions before, I've forgotten:

Will the main PCB have holes for mounting if the builder decides to wire the pots and switches off-board?

Did you say there were buffered outputs of the selected waveform available (on the PCB) from each VCO?
If not, the unbuffered output could be tapped from the CW leg of each VCO's Level pot, right?

Is the provision on the board to apply an offset CV to each VCO in addition to the Master CV (Glide output), rather than overriding it when a jack is inserted?
If not, it could easily be added by the builder with a resistor and socket per VCO, right?

What are the P-P levels of the VCO outputs and EG outputs?
I'm wondering if VCO3 or the Mod VCA output could be tapped by the builder and routed via a switch to the VCA CV input for AM/Tremolo.
Might require some gain and offset adjustments to work well.
Dimitree
just in case someone is looking for switches that looks like the original minimoog, I have some for sale:
http://www.ed-sounds.com/switches.html
smcumber
Those are beautiful little switches.
jdelgoulet
Isaiah :

Will the main PCB have holes for mounting if the builder decides to wire the pots and switches off-board?
yes both PCBs have mounting holes in the corners. (And other holes to secure the control board and the analog board.

Did you say there were buffered outputs of the selected waveform available (on the PCB) from each VCO?
Nope, VCO outputs are not buffered. There is a micromatch connectors on the control board so you have direct access to the VCOs selected waveform + ground (4 pins micromatch).
There is also another 4 pins micromatch on the control board to get the 3 different noises + ground.

Is the provision on the board to apply an offset CV to each VCO in addition to the Master CV (Glide output), rather than overriding it when a jack is inserted?
Nope. But you can achieve this by adding a 51K1 - 1% resistor to each VCO OPAMP (-) input. That should work. But, hey we are in modular wonderland.
Take your midi/cv out -> put that in a buffered multi -> then in a module that can apply offset -> plug that output into each VCO ;-)

What are the P-P levels of the VCO outputs and EG outputs?
Same as the Minimoog. The EG outputs are buffered.

[b]I'm wondering if VCO3 or the Mod VCA output could be tapped by the builder and routed via a switch to the VCA CV input for AM/Tremolo[b]
You better take the Mod VCA output as it is buffered. Sounds possible.
But again, modular wonderland. Just plug in your favorite LFO in the MOD-VCA input w00t

I made the mini 60HP 'cos in a 84HP case it leaves you 24HP for :
- a midi CV converter
- a multi-multi hmmm.....
- a LFO
- what else ?
jdelgoulet
Dimitree Love the switches ! Funny , I do have the same in Black. May be we can trade some ...
radar
woow sounds interesting, keep me informed for board + panel !
jdelgoulet
Added some minor changes to the front panel ...
Added knobs so you can have an idea of the place between them.

duff
There is just too much great stuff around at the moment! Might have to sell a kidney but I'm interested in PCB and panel.
sammy123
Looks great. Count me in.
davide3737
jdelgoulet wrote:
Added some minor changes to the front panel ...
Added knobs so you can have an idea of the place between them.



Very smart! love
mDang
I'm in ! 1 panel and 1 pcb smile
Captain Sternn
Definitely in for a PCB + panel set! SlayerBadger!
grizzle
I'm in for a panel + PCB set!!!
boops
I had to sell my Memorymoog last year,happy to build this ,moog sound Come back home...1 pcb + panel Please

merci monsieur...ca dechiiire....
oldcrow
AliExpress has lots of knobs. That is where I get my Davies 1900 clones.

I will definitely buy a board set and panel. --Crow

/**/
windspirit
Wow! Looks beautiful. Is there a price yet or is everyone just throwing their money into the black hole? hihi
xpmtl
I'll take a Panel/PCB combo as well !
Isaiah
jdelgoulet wrote:
Isaiah :

Will the main PCB have holes for mounting if the builder decides to wire the pots and switches off-board?
yes both PCBs have mounting holes in the corners. (And other holes to secure the control board and the analog board.


Good stuff!



Quote:
Did you say there were buffered outputs of the selected waveform available (on the PCB) from each VCO?
Nope, VCO outputs are not buffered. There is a micromatch connectors on the control board so you have direct access to the VCOs selected waveform + ground (4 pins micromatch).
There is also another 4 pins micromatch on the control board to get the 3 different noises + ground.


The reason I ask about this is because I wondered if I might be able to tap the VCO outputs to feed a a diode/transformer ring modulator which would be the sixth audio source into the VCF.



Quote:
Is the provision on the board to apply an offset CV to each VCO in addition to the Master CV (Glide output), rather than overriding it when a jack is inserted?
Nope. But you can achieve this by adding a 51K1 - 1% resistor to each VCO OPAMP (-) input. That should work. But, hey we are in modular wonderland.
Take your midi/cv out -> put that in a buffered multi -> then in a module that can apply offset -> plug that output into each VCO ;-)


That's good to know, thanks.
I asked about this because the VCF EG can be wired to feed pots and switches to modulate the pitch of OSCs 2 & 3 for dynamic Sync effects, or modulation of the "LFO" (OSC3) frequency.



Quote:
What are the P-P levels of the VCO outputs and EG outputs?
Same as the Minimoog. The EG outputs are buffered.

I'm wondering if VCO3 or the Mod VCA output could be tapped by the builder and routed via a switch to the VCA CV input for AM/Tremolo
You better take the Mod VCA output as it is buffered. Sounds possible.
But again, modular wonderland. Just plug in your favorite LFO in the MOD-VCA input w00t

I made the mini 60HP 'cos in a 84HP case it leaves you 24HP for :
- a midi CV converter
- a multi-multi hmmm.....
- a LFO
- what else ?


I asked this because I wondered if the VCO outputs (more specifically, the Mod Mix VCA output) would have a large enough P-P voltage to fully open and close the VCA.

Thanks for all the information!

Is there a point where the Mod Mix VCA output is easily tapped?
If it isn't a major headache, would it be possible to add a header for this please?
Sorry, I hate to be that guy who makes requests of other people's hard work! d'oh!
shimoda
Interested in a panel/pcb set
Sparky
Also interested in PCB + Panel. Looks like a great project!
oberling
in for one pcb and panel (and whatever else is included in any kit)... as if that was even a question wink
Moog$FooL$
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
That looks fantastic, Julien.

Will you be posting the PCB art publicly? I like to etch and drill my own.

I'm happy to pay for the privilege, of course.



any chance for this?? hyper hyper
depth20
Why did you place the envelope and filter control pots vertically and not horizontally like on the minimoog? I think the moog placement on those knobs makes more sense.
treseja
I'm in for pcb and panel.

Thank You
delayed
jdelgoulet wrote:
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch : yes, I will. Have in mind that the PCB layout cannot be printed with an A4 printer - even if your printer allow to print without margin. Also, there is a lot of "via" (specially on the control board, you'll see I choose a square pad to identify them). But the trickiest part is "to not forget to solder component pins on both side for some of them.


on a side topic of this idea,
does anyone know where larger PNP blue paper might be bought? or have used something with luck? up to 17-20 inches or so?
soderstrom
Hello@all, first post here w00t I am in for a pcb set and a panel! Thanks for that great project!
r-led-boreh
soderstrom wrote:
Hello@all, first post here w00t I am in for a pcb set and a panel! Thanks for that great project!


First post here too. I think this project is kind of muff wiggler ticket.
AlanP
Interested in pcb/panel, depending on price.
DylanSpence
This looks great! I am in for a pcb set and the panel. screaming goo yo
smcumber
Would love to see a BOM on this once it's ready (or even a rough draft of a BOM)
aristote
I'm in for a PCB + Panel (+ everything kit available). w00t w00t
jdelgoulet
Just a quick update on how things are on going.
- Waiting for some part to finish Prototype V2. Prototype V2 is kinda identical to V1 except that potentiometer placement has been adjusted for more "room". Should be finished this week-end.
- Waiting for prices on "metalphoto" process front panels. Also I'm still looking around for "local" providers. In the mean time I'll be testing a new process called "direct UV printing" as we have a new company here that just do that. Look amazing, can print on any surface/material and ink is design for outside environment so ... Guinness ftw!

If everything goes well with prototype V2, I will order a bunch of factory made PCBs to verify assembly guide, BOM etc.

It's coming slowly .. but it's coming nanners
soderstrom
Good news! Go Julien, go! thumbs up
rogueevo
This looks awesome, count me in for everything! we're not worthy
nickster
Good news Julien! Very glad to hear of your progress. It's peanut butter jelly time!
logicgate
Very excited about this!

Thanks for sharing your work, can't wait for the schematics and board files!
jdelgoulet
@ logicgate : Just to make a point on the "sharing" part of this project : I won't share eagle files ... I will share the double side layout, schematic, component placement etc as pdf. Like Mister Yves Usson does.
logicgate
jdelgoulet wrote:
@ logicgate : Just to make a point on the "sharing" part of this project : I won't share eagle files ... I will share the double side layout, schematic, component placement etc as pdf. Like Mister Yves Usson does.


Hi!

Oh yes yes, I didn't mean the actual eagle files! thumbs up

Thanks a lot mate
Sparky
Thanks for the update! Very excited here!
smcumber
Feeling the itches of excitement for this hyper

Want to know more specifics hyper hyper hyper
valgamaa
jdelgoulet wrote:

- Waiting for prices on "metalphoto" process front panels. Also I'm still looking around for "local" providers. In the mean time I'll be testing a new process called "direct UV printing" as we have a new company here that just do that. Look amazing, can print on any surface/material and ink is design for outside environment so ...


Direct UV printing can give excellent results, with no tooling costs and usually no minimum quantity. If you find a company that can produce the base panels for you to a standard you are happy with then this is a great option.
abelovesfun
Very exciting. Still in for the price of the PCB. Does anyone out there think I will have any (major) issues using this minimoog pcb with some weird Estradin 230 panels I have laying around: http://www.newpathcommune.com/2010/08/30/estradin-230-analog-synthesiz er-face-plates/

It was "the soviet" minimoog and they have the same functions. Any thoughts on that? Thought it would be fun to get that up and running.
wavehead
great great project... one pcb + panel, for sure.
r-led-boreh
pcb and panel, please
mattfearsatan
yep yep yep yep yep
panel and pcb please
audiohawk
Amazing project! applause
When the time comes count me in for a full set. PCBs and Panel.

Thank you for your work. we're not worthy
jdelgoulet
Update : I'm still waiting for some part to assemble the latest prototype.
In the mean time, I finally found a company who "believes" in this project and is ok for doing a front panel prototype. We are going with 2.5mm anodized aluminum panel with one side painted with black epoxy ink. Printing will be done by using UV process (UV printer).
Concerning PCB manufacturing : while it seems obvious to have them made in China with places like itead, seeedstudio etc, I wanted to work with a french company that is still making PCB in France and I think i found one ! nanners
I'm waiting for their final proposal but it looks good.

So, stay tune, I will have the panel prototype and missing components beginning next week so I should have something new to show.

PS : I know you guys wanted to hear the beast. I'm just a crap musician and just don't have time for that right now. So, one of my friends Thomas Terrien will be doing the audio/video demos with the prototype. (You can also see his work on his facebook page).
soderstrom
Thanks for information! hyper applause hyper
brother303
+1 thumbs up
finnurbjarna
I would be interested in a set - looks amazing!
DubplateDerek
Please count me in for a set when they are available.

Thanks!
humax5600
I am also in for a pcb set and the panel.

applause
ehochstrasser
I'll be in for a PCB and panel when the time comes. I think I may build a nice little wooden case for it.
megamaeng
uhh dunno if I'm supposed to express my interest here, but since everyone else is... Put me down for a pcb/panel! It's peanut butter jelly time!
salih03
yes Rockin' Banana!
put me for a complete set pls!!! This is fun!
oldcrow
In Europe try pcb-pool for quick-turn boards. I think they have facilities in Ireland and Germany. --Crow
Varthdader
I am in for a complete kit or pcb/panel combo when the time comes!
smcumber
I think this looks totally awesome, but I am amazed at how many people will put themselves down for a pcb/panel without seeing a price.
samuraipizzacat29
I'm pretty sure everyone here understands it's in proto phase. Most that do that are just expressing interest and keeping the thread bumped thumbs up

I will prob buy pcbs, but have far greater interest in rolling my own. I've learned not to buy pcbs I don't immediately need and just invest my interest in projects I can really DIY when the time comes.
jdelgoulet
@samuraipizzacat29 : thumbs up

I'm not giving any price yet, as I don't have received all the final proposals.
Also, don't know if other people who are selling PCBs feel the same as me but it's quite difficult to put a price on something you've work on for a long time.
I'm not hiding the fact that I want to make money out of it (You cannot imagine all the synth DIY projects I've got in my head , one particularly ... eek! w00t ), but on the other side, when I was young, I was "frustrated" to not have enough money to buy a Mini that, when I saw it was possible to build one, I thought : yeah, a mini for everyone !

All I can say is that, since I started this project in the eurorack form, I wanted to have a finish unit for around 500/600 euros.
So you can expect the final price to be around that number. (this include PCBs, panel, knobs, switches etc etc).

Also, as the project will be open source, if people don't want to buy PCBs from me, they'll be able to etch their own ! DIY !! nanners
brother303
Any news here?
rogueevo
brother303 wrote:
Any news here?


x2 Mr. Green
jdelgoulet
Unfortunately no. I was supposed to get the prototype panel to assemble the latest prototype before manufacturing more than two weeks ago. Then they promised me the panel for yesterday ... and I'm still waiting ... very frustrating very frustrating very frustrating very frustrating very frustrating very frustrating very frustrating
Also, May is not a great month in France for "manufacturing" stuff. This year there is only 16 working days ...

I'll post here as soon as I have pictures and news. The plan was to have a bunch of boards+panel to sell for around june 15th ...

In the mean time I'm prototyping a little PSU board to power up the beast with an AC wall adapter. Board is ready, I'll test it tomorrow.
werock
jdelgoulet wrote:

In the mean time I'm prototyping a little PSU board to power up the beast with an AC wall adapter. Board is ready, I'll test it tomorrow.


That's good to hear, nice to have a standalone option.
r-led-boreh
wrong thread, I'm sorry
jdelgoulet
I've just tested the little PSU. Works great ! 5 capacitors, 2 diodes and a simple 12V 1A AC PSU ! So for those of you who don't have an eurorack PSU that will be a nice , cheap alternative !
memorygardens
nice. I would love a little psu..... i plan on a stand alone minimoog.
jdelgoulet
PSU is now onboard , I manage to put it on the controller board w00t
Bring up your 12V AC 1A PSU adaptors ! nanners
rogueevo
jdelgoulet wrote:
PSU is now onboard , I manage to put it on the controller board w00t
Bring up your 12V AC 1A PSU adaptors ! nanners


Awesome because I also was planning on mine being standalone.

Thanks!
stefanovic
Nice for the PSU. Now for it to be truly standalone, a midi-cv converter is required, isn't it?
What about something like the midi2cvlite?
Providing a board like this would be valuable... Though I have problems with burning PICs firmware, as opposed to Atmel...
Eloc
stefanovic wrote:
Nice for the PSU. Now for it to be truly standalone, a midi-cv converter is required, isn't it?...


Don't delay him even more! I'm impatient.
AlanP
Sorry if this has been covered, but what mechanical support do you have planned for the various daughterboards? The shots I've seen seem to have them hanging off the motherboard by the pin headers.
jdelgoulet
@stefanovic : I do have a DIY Midi CV/gate interface but as Eloc mentionned, I'm not working more on it. Mini first ;-)
Also there are plenty of nice DIY midi-cv gate based on arduino (which is easier to program than PICs). You could also check Olivier's USB->CV/Gate interface : CV-PAL

@AlanP : pin headers are not used to maintain the PCB. There are 9 holes on the PCBs (4 in the corners plus 5 others holes spread on the boards).
jdelgoulet
[Progress] :
- Panel : It's been a real pain to find someone capable of screen printing/printing white on a black panel ... The UV printer is still being repair (so still waiting for testing that process). Also, I finally found two companies capable of doing old style screen printing and I'm waiting for the test results.
In the mean time, I've tested engraving using a CO2 laser. Looks ok, but not as nice as white paint ...
- Overall testing : I'm glad I did not send gerber to PCB manufacturing. I found a small issue with the preamp. Working on that. Also, the onboard PSU has been removed : too noisy without a sh*** load of capacitors... meh

Some pictures with a sized panel. Notice the "skiff" friendly depth w00t



SoundPool
this looks great. The layout looks like a nice balance between being reasonably compact and still very playable. Have we had any sort of even rough estimate on what the final cost might be for pcb+panel sets? Seeing the panel now I would for sure want one, possibly two depending on the final cost.
brother303
This!

thumbs up
sammy123
Wow...super slim.
Cablebasher
very impressed. so much good stuff on offer to the DIYer at the moment.

Arp2600, Buchla Music Easel and now a Minimoog Clone!

Time to buy more solder!
tIB
Looks fantastic... I need to hear it!
jdelgoulet
We shoot some quick videos this week-end so stay tune Mr. Green
tIB
hyper hyper hyper
jasonh23
Looks fantastic... So slim! w00t
jdelgoulet
4 notes loop with some tweaking w00t
[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/207330019" params="auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_use r=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true" width="100%" height="450" iframe="true" /]
xpmtl
sounds good
SlayerBadger!
Kipling
Sounds great!
Sony Crocket
Love it!

Please, put me in the list for one of this!
nickster
Great demo. Sounds lovely It's peanut butter jelly time! w00t SlayerBadger!
audiohawk
Looking good and sounds great!
As I stated before count me in for sure.

Great work! applause
Quadram
eek! eek!

Count me in for a full set , PCB and panel Mr. Green

applause applause
soderstrom
Fantastic news! applause
jdelgoulet
[Progress] : the issue with the preamp is definitely gone. I tried to avoid the "shielded cable" wiring but this is mandatory ... The mini is very sensitive ...
nickster
jdelgoulet wrote:
[Progress] : the issue with the preamp is definitely gone. I tried to avoid the "shielded cable" wiring but this is mandatory ... The mini is very sensitive ...

Bravo! It's peanut butter jelly time!
tIB
jdelgoulet wrote:
4 notes loop with some tweaking w00t
[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/207330019" params="auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_use r=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true" width="100%" height="450" iframe="true" /]


Cool! Do you do requests?
mothertongue
I have a Crowminius coming already, but it looks like I'll have to build this one too. Great job!
jdelgoulet
@tIB : what do you mean ?

mothertongue : that way you'll have v2 (old shcool oscillators) and v3 (latest oscillators). We never have enough mini.

Personnaly, I can't wait to have the 5 prototypes in hand ... just for the sake of playing chords !!!!
tIB
jdelgoulet wrote:
@tIB : what do you mean ?


I'd love to hear two beating oscilators (bass tone) through a slow filter sweep from closed to fully open with resonance just on the edge... Mr. Green
darmklacht@gmail.com
very frustrating promised myself I would resist, sad banana

what a lovely project
LED-man
please count me in for your great project:

3x PCB set
3x Frontpanel
boops
+1 applause
DJBRUTAL
This is awesome jdelgoulet, nice work! Definitely in for one.
snaper
Im in for a set too.
Its soooo sweet to miss grin
And the possibility to use it as a standalone system rooooocks!
jdelgoulet
@snpaer : well ... if you bring your own PSU. I try powering the beast with an AC adaptor. While it works, it brings a lot of unwanted noise (in the high frequency domain) and there is no place on the PCB to add a circuitry to prevent that - Oscillators are very very sensitive to noise... For the sake of testing, I ordered a Mean Well RT-65B which is quite small. I'll let you guys know if that works well. At 22 euros the PSU, it worth the try hihi

Otherwise, right now, I'm using a basic LM317/LM337 PSU and sound is pretty clean. The downside is that the regulators need to be cooled so heatsinks are mandatory.
Radiotech
nanners
jdelgoulet
Last week-end we quickly shoot some videos. Notice how this has been professionally done ... hihi https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxtZmTH3UJN7Jjg3RpXQ9JQ
Reality Checkpoint
jdelgoulet wrote:
Last week-end we quickly shoot some videos. Notice how this has been professionally done ... hihi https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxtZmTH3UJN7Jjg3RpXQ9JQ


OK, that did it!

Interested in a panel and pcb set please. thumbs up
demian
What are the costs for a set?
alain6870
Really cool VCOs and good sounding VCF.

I would use smaller knobs to get some more place for finger between pots... But we all know eurorack limitations.

nice project.
mgronroos
Ok, my defences are down; please put me on your list if you have one..
Or let us know when and where we should post our interest / order when you have reached that point.

Great work, looking forward to the build!

Regards,
Michael
wired
That drone is pure delight. I can't resist
SoundPool
one thing I am curious about is have you tested for tuning/temp stability? Even if its like an old mini as far as stability goes I'd still be psyched to have a couple of these since even if that is still something to watch out for it eliminates all the other maintenance difficulties you would have with an old original (cleaning pots, dead keys, blah blah).
jdelgoulet
SoundPool: Quick answer : no, I haven't done any tests on that side.
Long answer : I'm not a Minimoog owner myself but one of my friend own one. Same version as my clone. Honestly, I talk about that with him and he told me that it only tune it like 2 or 3 times a year ... . Now, I tuned my version one time (waiting about 15/20 minutes) and all I can say is that , every time I plug it is in tune. (I admit, he always stay in the same room/house). I know there is a lot of talk about Minimoog rev2 temp/tuning stability but it really depends in the condition it is being used but also ... if the mini has the mod with the tempco on the CA3046 chips ... This used to be a factory mod so not all Minimoog Rev 2 out there have this modification. I would be curious to know how many Minimoog users actually know if they have this mod in their mini. (I would be curious too to see how many are well calibrated ...).

Now, we touch the delicate subject : "if I clone a synth, should I clone it exactly like it was, or should I try to eliminate its imperfection". When I was doing it, I asked me that question. The answer was : no, keep it like it was. Whatever happens. If I had to change things, I can tell you that I wouldn't have bother looking for the exact same parts (components), I would have replace the lin/expo part with the CA3046 over technique (like a UA726), I would have add a high frequency trim pot for the VCOs ... or I would have taken an SSM2164 and make a dual VCO with one chip, like Elektron did hihi
SoundPool
thanks for the info! I guess with any older unit the stability probably varies a bit based on its storage/usage conditions- was it being bashed around and left in damp clubs constantly, does it have 30 years of smoke exposure, was it stored in a basement uncovered and unpowered for a decade… so on.

I can appreciate sticking true to the original design, possible quirks and all. I think often times its what makes these instruments what they truly are/were since its more than just a particular filter chip which gives something its own sound- its all these little faults, drifts, and behaviors too. Just good to know how to expect it to behave.
MarcMooga
Fantastic work!!!!! thumbs up

Please count me in for 2 complete sets.
abelovesfun
Still interested in PCB sets. Any chance of opening up the panel template for us guys in .com land? I like my minis big.
jdelgoulet
[Progress] : I've just received the Meanwell PSU (RT-65B) works like a charm ! 21 euros to power a mini ... not that bad ! It's peanut butter jelly time!

[Testing] : I'm still perfecting the beast. I found out that when OSC3 is in 2" position, level at 0 you can hear it when the filter modulation switch is engaged and the "wheel VCA" is wide open. Clearly ... bleed thru from the modulation bus into the VCF audio and CV inputs. On a real mini, the VCF audio and CV inputs are fed using a shielded cable. I'll do the way around. I'll try to isolate the modulation input. Stay tune. (Should be a quick fix ... but you know ...)
boops
jdelgoulet wrote:
[Progress] : I've just received the Meanwell PSU (RT-65B) works like a charm ! 21 euros to power a mini ... not that bad ! It's peanut butter jelly time!

[Testing] : I'm still perfecting the beast. I found out that when OSC3 is in 2" position, level at 0 you can hear it when the filter modulation switch is engaged and the "wheel VCA" is wide open. Clearly ... bleed thru from the modulation bus into the VCF audio and CV inputs. On a real mini, the VCF audio and CV inputs are fed using a shielded cable. I'll do the way around. I'll try to isolate the modulation input. Stay tune. (Should be a quick fix ... but you know ...)



Yes ,a shielded should work...thanks for the update of psu Meanwell wink
jdelgoulet
[Progress] : modulation bleed thru is still present. I spent the last 5 days trying to remove it without success. Still investigating .... very frustrating very frustrating very frustrating
I'll have a Minimoog model D Rev 2 this week-end, so I'll be able to check if this is "normal" behavior or if I have to redesign either the VCF (I already did it without success) or the control board.
Also, this behavior is also present when using the VCF and VCA CV inputs ...

I know you guys have been waiting for quite a long time now, but I would like to have the machine 100% working before running any PCBs/panel batch.
whoop_john
jdelgoulet wrote:
modulation bleed thru is still present. I spent the last 5 days trying to remove it without success. Still investigating ...

Bonne chance avec ça.
Nordcore
jdelgoulet wrote:
I know you guys have been waiting for quite a long time now, but I would like to have the machine 100% working before running any PCBs/panel batch.


we're not worthy x 1000
samuraipizzacat29
saw this and thought of you guys in this thread. well worth it if you're planning on building with these pcbs methinks.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Minimoog-D-assorted-spare-parts-Pratt-Read-key board-repro-overlay-etc-/321778481540?
jazzmonster
Hey, great work. I might be in for a set (PCBs + panel) depending on the price.
ThecureForSin
jdelgoulet wrote:

I know you guys have been waiting for quite a long time now, but I would like to have the machine 100% working before running any PCBs/panel batch.


Be sure to count me in whenever you get to that point!
jdelgoulet
Sorry everyone for being silent those last weeks ! The project is still on going, don't worry. It just take more time than I thought ...
I had time comparing my clone with my friends model-D ... guess what It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time!
Same great sound. I even play the machines with the same settings at the same time and you cannot tell which one is the real or the clone !

Now, as some of you know, I wanted to eradicate the cross modulation between the VCOs. Adding regulator for each VCOs section is the key but not only ... Star grounding takes also a big part in removing this cross mod ...

So, I had to re-route a complete control board (see picture above). I'm about to build it tonight so we'll see if this new "rounting" improve things. (It should).

Concerning the VCF bleedthru : the original mini has the same symptom so I won't fix that. (You can hear oscillators 3 when set to a high pitch and level set to zero when VCF modulation is on).

Concerning the panel : I finally received the first laser cut and painted panel. Looks good but enough to my standards ... I'm discussing with the company to improve things.

And for your ears a new demo by Thomas : [soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/212766660" params="auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_use r=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true" width="100%" height="450" iframe="true" /]

davide3737
jdelgoulet wrote:
Sorry everyone for being silent those last weeks ! The project is still on going, don't worry. It just take more time than I thought ...
I had time comparing my clone with my friends model-D ... guess what It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time!
Same great sound. I even play the machines with the same settings at the same time and you cannot tell which one is the real or the clone !

Now, as some of you know, I wanted to eradicate the cross modulation between the VCOs. Adding regulator for each VCOs section is the key but not only ... Star grounding takes also a big part in removing this cross mod ...

So, I had to re-route a complete control board (see picture above). I'm about to build it tonight so we'll see if this new "rounting" improve things. (It should).

Concerning the VCF bleedthru : the original mini has the same symptom so I won't fix that. (You can hear oscillators 3 when set to a high pitch and level set to zero when VCF modulation is on).

Concerning the panel : I finally received the first laser cut and painted panel. Looks good but enough to my standards ... I'm discussing with the company to improve things.

And for your ears a new demo by Thomas : [soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/212766660" params="auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_use r=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true" width="100%" height="450" iframe="true" /]



Good to have the update. Demo sounds fantastic. Love the photo of the board against the night sky!
Lachlan C.
Woah, this demo sounds great! Amazing work
nickster
"I had time comparing my clone with my friends model-D ... guess what
Same great sound. I even play the machines with the same settings at the same time and you cannot tell which one is the real or the clone !
"

You are a very naughty boy! Stop teasing us so! The demo sounds delicious. MY ASS IS BLEEDING

Seriously though, great to hear you are getting closer to where you wish to be with this project. We are all very excited to hear that you are getting nearer to offering us all the chance to build this. Thanks very very much.
tIB
Sounds wonderful!
Check Mate
You can count me in for a PCB and panel when it's done.
I sounds really great and I always wanted a "compact" Mini.
Thanks for doing this! Guinness ftw!
glennfin
Check Mate wrote:
You can count me in for a PCB and panel when it's done.
I sounds really great and I always wanted a "compact" Mini.
Thanks for doing this! Guinness ftw!


++++1 A Euro Mini? fantastic..... PCB and panel yes!! nanners
AlanP
Is there something wrong with me, when I'm so very impressed by etched doublesided boards? smile
mOBiTh
w00t w00t
Senor
Drunken Homer Simpson
LektroiD
If I haven't already stated my interest (I can't remember), I'd love a full set.
southphillysynths
Seems like I'm a bit late to the party! If there will be panels,pcbs, and parts kits depending on the price I'd be interested!

Love to see this stuff still happening so we get more stuff to build!
rush340
Oh wow that sounds good hyper
lowacid
Count me in for 3x pcbs sets !
w00t
wired
Demo sounds Rockin' Banana!
cane creek
Please count me in for PCB & Panel Mr. Green
4floorsofwhores
Fantastic. pcb set please
Zaibach
I'love to have a pcb set and panel as well we're not worthy
involver
Sounds great. Interested in a PCB and panel.
Maco
interested also very frustrating
Altitude909
Awesome.
dingebre
If you're tracking interest, I will buy one or two sets. If not, I'll still buy one or two sets :)

David
jdelgoulet
[Progress] : New control board PCB has reduced the cross mod to nothing ;-) We are almost there ! I want to do a last test : removing 3 of the 6 LDOs from the oscillator section. I have the feeling they are not needed and this will save everyone some good $$$.

Concerning the panel, I'm taking a different approche. I might do it with black anodized aluminium screen printed in white. I'll also test with black anodized aluminum but laser engraved.

And now this week teaser from Thomas (3 MME tracks with auto-pan effect and reverb) :

[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/213758879" params="auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_use r=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true" width="100%" height="450" iframe="true" /]
nickster
Excellent work! Love the new demo too. It's peanut butter jelly time! we're not worthy It's peanut butter jelly time!
Kipling
I shall be up for a kit too.
wired
My kind of demo we're not worthy
mikefiction
I'd like to get on the list for a PCB and panel smile
southphillysynths
I'm getting more and more interested as I read! any idea what the price will be?
gslug
Must resist....

Almost certainly won't. I'm tempted to spin my own interface PCB and build a full size clone.
southphillysynths
Just watched the videos, now I'm really stoked... SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger!

any news?
crsynths
most definitely interested in a panel/pcb
bigpoppa
OK, long time lurker, first time poster. Please put me down as in for a panel/pcb.

Thanks.
lcf
applause we're not worthy
Incredible!!!
Put me in for one PCB and one panel please!!
Mindarp
Incroyable!
That sounds absolutely beautiful. Thank you for all your hard work.
I will certainly be in for one set, if not two.
Gary Dad
just from reading the op it's not completely clear to me but i am VERY interested in the vcf and vca modules. what's not clear to me is whether or not these will be available as freestanding modules separate from the complete clone using the 60hp control board. it sounds like they will be but i'm not sure.
Conjure
In for an entire set of PCB/Panels.
lvoemachine
It would be great to see this in moog format as well. I do panel design for the MU projects at synthcube and think this would be a great thing to take on. Any chance you'd consider a front panel pcb for a bigger layout and 1/4" jacks? 5u is closer to the original panel size and considering the large format moog fetishes, I can see this being really popular.
snaper
Im not a big Moog fan, but man, you can count me in for a set! grin
Amazing!
mcasey1
I'm in for a panel and pcb!
cupwise
pretty sure i'd be in for at least one.
mbroers
count me in for a pcb/panel, looks awesome!
edwinm
I really rally want a set! The vids look great!
weedywhizz
Awesome stuff.

2-3 panels & pcb sets please applause
tripper
You can count me at this for sure applause
I need a set of pcb panel!
Even i have build most of minimoog modules separate for my diy modular , but this is a completely whole minimoog!!! i want it now hihi
StillNotWorking
Being a Voyager RME owner one gets fascinated by the fact this voice take up less space than the two breakout boxes for the RME.
_lex
i am interested in (2) pcb/panel sets (if you are gauging interests for a run count).
vathan
I'm in for a panel/pcb set. Thanks!
jdelgoulet
Hi everyone !

Some news about the project :
- As far as the electronic goes everything is now set. There won't be any more change !
- On the mechanical side I'm waiting for some news rotary switches to test if they would fit better than the usual one. The thing is , I'm not 100% satisfied with the way the panel is mounted and the fact that potentiometers need "spacers". (The rotary switches are higher than the alpha 16mm pots)(See the above photo to see what I mean). In the second pictures you can see that the alpha pot are not "standing like they should" on their legs.





- The panel ... long story short : I've asked a local company to laser cut and epoxy coat the panel. The result is ... bad. Looks like we don't have the same quality standards. angry ( You can see on the above pictures that they did not bother sanding the panel to remove any aluminum residues.). So I've asked another company and this time instead of laser cutting the panel, we decided to punch them (like in the good old days). Then, I went to another company that is specialized in powder coating. The end result is very nice Mr. Green

Bad panel :



Good Panel :







- Screenprinting : I have an appointment with a new company on August 17th. And should meet another one by the end of August.
jdelgoulet
oh I forgot ... In France, August is a "dead" month. All companies are closed ... So I tought it would be a good time to made some cuties ... w00t Guinness ftw!

Here they are : VCO (That is about to take a little diet ..., too big), CP3A Mixer , VCA, VCF , Dual contour. All 'thru hole' for the original part of the schematic, some CMS for the on board regulators and in/out buffers. And yes , they all are less than 2.7cm behind the panel hihi




Zaibach
It's just amazing to see what you have created! we're not worthy I hope you find a company that makes a satisfactory panel for your project!
cane creek
jdelgoulet, what are the diameter of the knobs you are using on the finished build ?, as I'm thinking of buying some from Thonk whilst his sale is on.
jdelgoulet
I use the 3/4 Moog Classic Style. (Be carrefull, not the classic 1")
cane creek
jdelgoulet wrote:
I use the 3/4 Moog Classic Style. (Be carrefull, not the classic 1")


Thanks for reply, just ordered knobs Mr. Green
jdelgoulet
I've just finished testing the new rotary switches. While they are thinner than the usual alpha one, they are still too high. So I'll stick with the common Alpha/Lorlin type, meaning that spacers will be required between pot and front panel.
e-tekk
wow! wonderful! For me a PCB and a Panel please, if you make them.
davide3737
cane creek wrote:
jdelgoulet wrote:
I use the 3/4 Moog Classic Style. (Be carrefull, not the classic 1")


Thanks for reply, just ordered knobs Mr. Green


Hi. Which knobs did you order? I couldn't see Moog classic style on the Thonk website.
boops
jdelgoulet wrote:
oh I forgot ... In France, August is a "dead" month. All companies are closed ... So I tought it would be a good time to made some cuties ... w00t Guinness ftw!

Here they are : VCO (That is about to take a little diet ..., too big), CP3A Mixer , VCA, VCF , Dual contour. All 'thru hole' for the original part of the schematic, some CMS for the on board regulators and in/out buffers. And yes , they all are less than 2.7cm behind the panel hihi






Really cutes,indeed... applause
cane creek
davide3737 wrote:


Hi. Which knobs did you order? I couldn't see Moog classic style on the Thonk website.


Synth Pointer Knobs, small skirted.
At 20mm diameter they are about 1mm wider than the 3/4 Moog so I assume will be fine as they easily looks 0.5 mm play either side.
qp
We were just discussing rotary switches not long ago on another thread. could this be a possible replacement?
InfraXpert
jdelgoulet wrote:


- The panel ... long story short : I've asked a local company to laser cut and epoxy coat the panel. The result is ... bad. Looks like we don't have the same quality standards.



Watercutting gives better and smoother results than lasercutting and often precise enough for this kind of project.
davide3737
cane creek wrote:
davide3737 wrote:


Hi. Which knobs did you order? I couldn't see Moog classic style on the Thonk website.


Synth Pointer Knobs, small skirted.
At 20mm diameter they are about 1mm wider than the 3/4 Moog so I assume will be fine as they easily looks 0.5 mm play either side.


Thanks!
jdelgoulet
qp wrote:
We were just discussing rotary switches not long ago on another thread. could this be a possible replacement?


Unfortunately no. The thing is : the rotary switch on the Minimoog, at least for the octave switching part, have to be make-before-break, otherwise when you change the octave you get noise etc.
I tried the 2511 from Tayda. Nice, cheap, lower than the usual Norlin ones but still too high even for the 16mm alpha.
Then I saw the little 9mm from SmallBear or DasMusikDing. They are vertical, but that could make it. Unfortunately, those are break-before-make ...
It looks like all the "low profile" rotary switches are break-before-make.

So - I did not want to do that angry very frustrating - but I went back to eagle. The idea is : minimalizing routing on the control board to allow 6*28mm diameter holes.
The rotary switch will be mounted directly on the panel and will connect to the Analog Board with micromatch connectors thru a little PCB.
What this mean is that I can use 9mm pot everywhere, have the 3.5mm jack mounted directly on the control board (previously they were on a dedicated PCBs) and allow the use of low profile toggle switch (the one i've got on the proto are APEM ones and they are quite expensive)

Tough work again but I think it's worth it : it greatly simply the assembly and make the machine even more compact.
chrissugar
Hi jdelgoulet

Congratulation for this very nice project.
I think it was a good decision to use the Lorlin/Alpha rotary switches because they are universally available, cheap and reasonably good quality.
A very similar way of using Lorlins and angled Alpha pots you can see in the Macbeth Micromac.
Here are a couple of pics (sorry for the large images):





I think there are two versions of angled pots, the ones you used and another with longer legs.
Check them at Banzai:
http://www.banzaimusic.com/Mono-Full-Shaft/

Looking forward to build it smilesmilesmile
chrissugar
Do you plan to sell only PCBs+panel kits, or will be possible to buy PCBs only?
I would like to make my own front panel design so it would be great to have the option to buy only the PCBs.

Any idea about price and when?
jdelgoulet
chrissugar wrote:
Hi jdelgoulet

Congratulation for this very nice project.
I think it was a good decision to use the Lorlin/Alpha rotary switches because they are universally available, cheap and reasonably good quality.
A very similar way of using Lorlins and angled Alpha pots you can see in the Macbeth Micromac.
Here are a couple of pics (sorry for the large images):

I think there are two versions of angled pots, the ones you used and another with longer legs.
Check them at Banzai:
http://www.banzaimusic.com/Mono-Full-Shaft/

Looking forward to build it smilesmilesmile



Well, either those pots or switches are "custom made" , either the panel has got what we call in french "lamages" : "lamages" means that the panel is milled on the inside at the rotary switch location so in the end the panel fit perfectly onto the switch and onto the potentiometers. I have been reading and re-reading the alpha datasheets, their rotary switch is at least 2mm higher than the pots.
latigid on
jdelgoulet wrote:
Well, either those pots or switches are "custom made" , either the panel has got what we call in french "lamages" : "lamages" means that the panel is milled on the inside at the rotary switch location so in the end the panel fit perfectly onto the switch and onto the potentiometers. I have been reading and re-reading the alpha datasheets, their rotary switch is at least 2mm higher than the pots.


Sometimes this is the only way:




It will add a bit to the panel cost, but might be simpler than rerouting the PCB and having daughterboards made?
jdelgoulet
chrissugar wrote:


I think there are two versions of angled pots, the ones you used and another with longer legs.
Check them at Banzai:
http://www.banzaimusic.com/Mono-Full-Shaft/

Looking forward to build it smilesmilesmile


Also the "long leg" version are too long. Distance from PCB 'til start of the thread is 21.1mm waah
medbot
Might be worth asking old crow what he used for the Crowminius he built with switches that could be soldered under the board - check this link:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1935411#1935411
tom1974
This is a fantastic looking project! Please put me down for a set also please hyper
oberkorn
interested in PCB/panel (depending on final price)
jdelgoulet
For the sake of "yes, I've tested every possibilities" I tried "in real" the new rotary switch from Tayda and finally ... it's not that bad at all w00t
Just add a nut on the pot before placing the panel and we are good.
(those are solder lug switch but at 0.89$ I'm in !)

A crappy photo to show you what I'm saying :

Paul Aner
this a fantastic job.. I'm really looking forward to know how much it's going to cost...
Kroaton
Awesome project to say the least.
I'd be down for a PCB/Panel set after I hear the cost as well.

Cheers and good luck with the finishing touches.
BeNoog
Count me in!
jdelgoulet
Ask your bro : "Could please verify the silkscreen before I order some prototypes ?"
And you get that eek! we're not worthy :

400 resistors
100 transistors
24 ICs
16 diodes
100 Capacitors

Thanks bro !!!

- So as you might guess, I ordered 10 PCBs sets today. I should receive them in about a week or so : meaning we are not so far from the release date w00t w00t w00t Guinness ftw! Guinness ftw! Guinness ftw! Guinness ftw!-


horstronic
jdelgoulet wrote:
Ask your bro : "Could please verify the silkscreen before I order some prototypes ?"
And you get that eek! we're not worthy :

400 resistors
100 transistors
24 ICs
16 diodes
100 Capacitors

Thanks bro !!!

- So as you might guess, I ordered 10 PCBs sets today. I should receive them in about a week or so : meaning we are not so far from the release date w00t w00t w00t Guinness ftw! Guinness ftw! Guinness ftw! Guinness ftw!-




Good news! w00t
soderstrom
Good news, can't wait! applause thumbs up w00t
IImyment
applause depending on the price I'd like one set of PCB...Do you have an idea yet?
wired
Yummy!!!
batchas
jdelgoulet wrote:
Ask your bro : "Could please verify the silkscreen before I order some prototypes ?"
And you get that eek! we're not worthy :

400 resistors
100 transistors
24 ICs
16 diodes
100 Capacitors

Thanks bro !!!

Projet de ouf!
The more I visit this thread the more I think you're doing some amazing work here with this project.

Interlude:
Here, for all who wait to put their hands on the kit, some pix of the guts of my original minimoog from the musonics era:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/batchas/albums/72157648841049979
Imagine, back then it was already some serious work involved to create this beast!
And no big bro around to check the silkscreen hihi
batchas
I realize looking now at my pix, that I should have take photos of the backside of the pcbs at the time I was mounting them back!
Next time then...
home_listening
Thanks, great photos
mgronroos
Hi jdelgoulet,

I have been working in Illustrator on a vctorized frontpanel in the classic Mini style. I realize that your panel board will not fit this, but wouldn't it be great to make a pcb for the classic look" too?

Actually, I would need to know what degrees you use on the different pots etc to make it a perfect fit to your kit.

I will design the classic frontpanel in two versions; one that is 100% the size of the original keyboard, and one that is 84 HP €ürø-sized. The Euro version will have the release switch instead of the 440 (Since this switch is next to the mod wheels on the kb). Pictures will follow.

Please let me know if you need beta build/test, I will be happy to contribute to this great project!

//Michael
mgronroos


Work in progress..
It still needs a few corrections and some aligning.
After this I will make the CV-strip with all ins and outs.

//Michael
sammy123
Lookin' good!

mgronroos wrote:


Work in progress..
It still needs a few corrections and some aligning.
After this I will make the CV-strip with all ins and outs.

//Michael
soderstrom
mgronroos wrote:


Work in progress..
It still needs a few corrections and some aligning.
After this I will make the CV-strip with all ins and outs.

//Michael


Very good! SlayerBadger!
jdelgoulet
I already prepared it ... I just don't tell all my secrets ... hihi w00t

mgronroos
Wow, that's great news!

So will you be making a pcb for pots and knobs?
And will you make keyboard sized frontpanel too?

If so I am more than happy! grin

Please let me know if there is anything I can do to assist.
I have made my front panel in Illustrator, so it is all vectorized.

Cheers,
Michael
DabiDabDab
Sorry, but something i find very unclear about this project, namely, as far as i can gather it will come out in two forms, one is separate modules for separate sections of the mini, one pcb per section, one side populated with components other side with hardware plus separate panels for each module, the other form is separate pcbs for sections of the mini, then control board with hardware which is attached to single big panel, is this how its gonna go down? Cause there is only talk about the big panel and im very much in favor of separate modules.


cheers
Stewart Pye
mgronroos wrote:


Work in progress..
It still needs a few corrections and some aligning.
After this I will make the CV-strip with all ins and outs.

//Michael


Will the decay switch go on the CV strip?

Cheers,
Stew.
Synthieverrückter
Wow! This project is Awsome!

nice one, love the pcbs !

cheers
Coorec
If not too expensive, count me in.

Great project indeed.
mgronroos
Will the decay switch go on the CV strip?

Cheers,
Stew.[/quote]

Hi Stew,

Originally there was no talk of a keyboard inspired look for this wonderful kit, so that was what I intended to do. The panel I showed is based on the keyboard design where the decay switch is above the mod wheels.

For my finished panel I planned to put the decay switch where A-440 is.
So everything would be covered.

But since jdelgoulet already started this work (which I was not aware of) with a classic panel, I think we should wait and see first before we do anything else.
Afterall, it is his project.. love

//Michael
jdelgoulet
DabiDabDab wrote:
Sorry, but something i find very unclear about this project, namely, as far as i can gather it will come out in two forms, one is separate modules for separate sections of the mini, one pcb per section, one side populated with components other side with hardware plus separate panels for each module, the other form is separate pcbs for sections of the mini, then control board with hardware which is attached to single big panel, is this how its gonna go down? Cause there is only talk about the big panel and im very much in favor of separate modules.


cheers


For now, it will go out in two versions :

-1 : Eurorack 60HP version : 3 PCBs set (Analog Board/Control Board/ Jacks Board)
-2 : Eurorack single modules : VCO / VCF / VCA / Dual EG / ModMix-Gide / Mixer (Moog CP3 clone)
soderstrom
jdelgoulet wrote:
DabiDabDab wrote:
Sorry, but something i find very unclear about this project, namely, as far as i can gather it will come out in two forms, one is separate modules for separate sections of the mini, one pcb per section, one side populated with components other side with hardware plus separate panels for each module, the other form is separate pcbs for sections of the mini, then control board with hardware which is attached to single big panel, is this how its gonna go down? Cause there is only talk about the big panel and im very much in favor of separate modules.


cheers


For now, it will go out in two versions :

-1 : Eurorack 60HP version : 3 PCBs set (Analog Board/Control Board/ Jacks Board)
-2 : Eurorack single modules : VCO / VCF / VCA / Dual EG / ModMix-Gide / Mixer (Moog CP3 clone)


applause
Coorec
Will you have a website or some such for the selling? I'd be pretty much interested in a complete kit incl. all parts since i am kinda proficient at soldering but lack electronic knowledge and therefor stumble at parts often times. confused
jdelgoulet
Coorec wrote:
Will you have a website or some such for the selling? I'd be pretty much interested in a complete kit incl. all parts since i am kinda proficient at soldering but lack electronic knowledge and therefor stumble at parts often times. confused


Yes, I will but I won't offer a kit that includes all parts. I will just sell PCBs and panels. I'll make a Mouser/Farnell/RadioSpare/Tayda Bom (Love Tayda, 15% discount every month Mr. Green ) for easy shopping. I also started a discussion with a distributor for the rare parts kit ...
Coorec
jdelgoulet wrote:
Yes, I will but I won't offer a kit that includes all parts. I will just sell PCBs and panels. I'll make a Mouser/Farnell/RadioSpare/Tayda Bom (Love Tayda, 15% discount every month Mr. Green ) for easy shopping. I also started a discussion with a distributor for the rare parts kit ...


Then i cant think of anything else to stop me from doing it love
PWM
What a wonderful project. I definitely want to build one.
jdelgoulet
Look at what arrived this morning Guinness ftw! w00t
My Weller is about to cry ... Mr. Green


mOBiTh
Awesome w00t

How do the pcbs connect to each other, by the way?
jdelgoulet
mOBiTh wrote:
Awesome w00t

How do the pcbs connect to each other, by the way?


By male/female pin headers. There are screws to secure the 2 boards together too.
seepaxton
Excellent!!! I would imagine you are extremely proud!!
yan6
It's peanut butter jelly time! ohhh man i cant wait
soderstrom
It's peanut butter jelly time! hyper nanners
mDang
Ohhhh yes !
jazzmonster
Great news!
Zaibach
jdelgoulet wrote:
Look at what arrived this morning Guinness ftw! w00t
My Weller is about to cry ... Mr. Green


My solder iron just started drooling Miley Cyrus
cane creek
Have we got much longer to wait ? MiniMoog
tobb
Hm,4 of these pcb's verticaly in a custom 19''rack with a panel design Studio Electronics Midimoog style and you have a 'Quadmini'
mgronroos
These are very, very, very beautiful pictures!

That is one fine achievement you have done there.
Your audio clips sound absolutely brilliant, and it will be a great pleasure to build this fine kit.

Hats off!

//Michael
oneoff
amazing project ! i can't wait!
w00t w00t w00t
DabiDabDab
Prices should be coming in soon?
jdelgoulet
DabiDabDab wrote:
Prices should be coming in soon?


60HP Version Panel + PCBs set will be 180/200 euros.
I don't have prices yet for the individual modules.

All in all, a complete build (including knobs etc) will cost around 450/500 euros.
apophis93
I am interested keep us posted!

- Daniel
BeNoog
My wife would like to have two of those first batch PCBs right now (my birthday is coming up).

Could you please make her happy?

PayPal account is filled up and ready to fire.
chrissugar
jdelgoulet wrote:
DabiDabDab wrote:
Prices should be coming in soon?


60HP Version Panel + PCBs set will be 180/200 euros.
I don't have prices yet for the individual modules.

All in all, a complete build (including knobs etc) will cost around 450/500 euros.


Hi jdegoulet

Is it possible to buy only PCBs if I would like to design/make my own front panel?
How much for a set?
Thank you smile
mush
jdelgoulet wrote:

60HP Version Panel + PCBs set will be 180/200 euros.


SOLD!
jdelgoulet
chrissugar wrote:
jdelgoulet wrote:
DabiDabDab wrote:
Prices should be coming in soon?


60HP Version Panel + PCBs set will be 180/200 euros.
I don't have prices yet for the individual modules.

All in all, a complete build (including knobs etc) will cost around 450/500 euros.


Hi jdegoulet

Is it possible to buy only PCBs if I would like to design/make my own front panel?
How much for a set?
Thank you smile


Sure that possible ! I will provide the pot/switch layout pdf.
The set should be around 130 euros.( I'm still discussing with the board house ).
Jop
Great price, I'm sold!

Is there a BOM you can share yet?
jdelgoulet
Jop wrote:
Great price, I'm sold!

Is there a BOM you can share yet?


Not yet. Need a full review. Also, I need to double check Mouser/Farnell/RadioSpare ref 'cos I saw some resistors were not available anymore.

I rather prefer giving the BOM and blueprint (etc) when everything will be ready to ship. Sorry.
Jop
No probs, and I fully understand cool
Axum
Wow, what an absolutely fantastic piece of work!

I'd be very interested in a set or two.

Axum
tsimmert
I'll also in for the PCBs/Panel.

Thanks for the truly awesome work! The demos are stunning.
dksynth
Hey Julien!

I'm the bloke who posted my matching mini and rhodes hihi

I'm in for a pcb and panel when it is ready!

-dk
southphillysynths
Will there be a full kit available? With panel/pcb/parts?


It's peanut butter jelly time!
jdelgoulet
southphillysynths wrote:
Will there be a full kit available? With panel/pcb/parts?
It's peanut butter jelly time!


Panel and PCB only. Sorry.
PWM
But you will tell us about your amizing replacement parts? I do hope so..
Kfinch3420
applause It's peanut butter jelly time!

Definitely interested in a set
hv0190
nanners Great price, I'm definitely in for a set ...
boops
Du temps est passé depuis mon post,svp dont miss me for a set ,Thanks
SoundPool
one full pcb/panel set for me for sure.

if *ahem* someone builds one… and decides maybe a second one is in order will there be future production runs you think?
ninGiaBoom
well, if it's not too late i'd love to buy a set as well hyper
apoisontree
I'm definitely in for 1 pcb+panel set.
dingebre
Have you decided how you will take orders or pre-orders? I would like three sets and don't want to miss the window. I'm happy to pay in advance.
psykon
Fantastic Work! we're not worthy

Definitely interested in a pcb/panel set (and the individual modules)
mtrnn
I would be interested on panel & pcb as well if you are going to sell these in future
Kipling
Zaibach wrote:
jdelgoulet wrote:
Look at what arrived this morning Guinness ftw! w00t
My Weller is about to cry ... Mr. Green


My solder iron just started drooling Miley Cyrus


My Antex just burnt out in all the excitement. Dead Banana
Randy
I'm seriously considering a PCB set and panel, no hurry for me 'though.

Randy
tapemyeyes
I'd be chuffed to get my hands on one of those kits too! Count me in screaming goo yo

Volkan
Coorec
btw. How much power does it consume?
nickster
Excellent to hear how this is progressing. I'm in for the pcb and panel option please.
Clemdu
Hey ! I'm definitely in for a PCB/Panel set. thanks ! SlayerBadger!
masterofstuff124
Im interested in making this a standalone MiniMoog clone. still with all the 3.5 connectors so it can interface with my Modular. Hopefully this http://www.futurlec.com/Mini_Power_Dual_12V.shtml can power it. Any Idea how much power this thing will require?
dingebre
masterofstuff124 wrote:
Im interested in making this a standalone MiniMoog clone. still with all the 3.5 connectors so it can interface with my Modular. Hopefully this http://www.futurlec.com/Mini_Power_Dual_12V.shtml can power it. Any Idea how much power this thing will require?


The original required 10 watts max

http://www.wendycarlos.com/other/PDF-Files/IntroMiniMoog*.pdf

David
jdelgoulet
masterofstuff124 wrote:
Im interested in making this a standalone MiniMoog clone. still with all the 3.5 connectors so it can interface with my Modular. Hopefully this http://www.futurlec.com/Mini_Power_Dual_12V.shtml can power it. Any Idea how much power this thing will require?


In a previous post I mentioned the PSU I was using.
The model is : Meanwell PSU (RT-65B), cost only 21 euros (@ reichelt, 43euros @ Mouser)
Yes it's a switching PSU but the MME has onboard LDOs so that's not a problem at all.
Here is the datasheet : http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/260/RT-65-spec-40947.pdfhelt
jdelgoulet
masterofstuff124 wrote:
Im interested in making this a standalone MiniMoog clone. still with all the 3.5 connectors so it can interface with my Modular. Hopefully this http://www.futurlec.com/Mini_Power_Dual_12V.shtml can power it. Any Idea how much power this thing will require?


Now that will do the job if the Power Adpator you put before can deliver enough current. The LM2575T are rated at 1A so that will be fine. Now I'm not sure but a quality wall adaptor capable of delivering let say 2/3A 24v DC might cost you more than the RT-65B PSU itself.
masterofstuff124
ahh i see there is not much savings to be had beyond the Meanwells. Any reason not to get the rt50b (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mean-Well/RT-50B/?qs=%2fha2pyFadu hyqevm5BlNy3k229pl6VzuR1gZ7Na4%2fys%3d) over the RT65B. It is half the price for me from mouser. It will only be powering about 7u(2x3 and 1x1) of Modules. Thanks for the Help!
enj_music
Please put me down for a panel and PCB. This is a fantastic project!
yan6
I had already expressed my interest near the begining but will take 3 full kits if you keeping track
keninverse
masterofstuff124 wrote:
ahh i see there is not much savings to be had beyond the Meanwells. Any reason not to get the rt50b (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mean-Well/RT-50B/?qs=%2fha2pyFadu hyqevm5BlNy3k229pl6VzuR1gZ7Na4%2fys%3d) over the RT65B. It is half the price for me from mouser. It will only be powering about 7u(2x3 and 1x1) of Modules. Thanks for the Help!


Try other vendors: Findchips search. They're as cheap as $22usd
LektroiD
dksynth wrote:
Hey Julien!

I'm the bloke who posted my matching mini and rhodes hihi


I'm the bloke who followed up with an empty room Mr. Green

I can't wait to get my hands on the full PCB/Panel set... Is ordering ready yet?

Any BoM available yet so I can start sourcing parts?
Brunstein
Just found this thread. Wow! Very interested!
mOBiTh
def up for one set of panel/pcb hihi
rasseru
Brunstein wrote:
Just found this thread. Wow! Very interested!


yeah nice one dave - im defo interested in kits
Captain Sternn
I'm in for a set too!
LektroiD
I've been looking at the size of this, and thinking a mini keyboard would fit nicely in front of it. I'm wondering how hard it would be to hook up something like an Akai LPK25 via USB, maybe a Mutable CV Pal to interface it... Any ideas, suggestions?
abelovesfun
Death to mini-keys!
samuraipizzacat29
abelovesfun wrote:
Death to mini-keys!


quoted for posterity hihi

If you're going to spend that much, spend a little more and get an at least close to real keybed. My akai max 25 cost only a few pennies over $100.
LektroiD
abelovesfun wrote:
Death to mini-keys!


samuraipizzacat29 wrote:
If you're going to spend that much, spend a little more and get an at least close to real keybed.


Why? I'm a synthesist, not a concert pianist, so I have no size requirements when it comes to the input device.

Besides, it would fit better, and allow more keys per HP, since this is a much smaller panel compared to the original Moog. A full sized keyboard would look ridiculous in front of a 60HP Euro panel.

Thanks for the support wink
samuraipizzacat29
I need full-length keys. I don't think I really need any more than 3 octaves worth, because I am not a concert pianist either. But I need full length keys. Every mini-keys synth I've had eventually went on a pile due to disuse. The difference in cost of a controller to get full length keys is simply not worth the mini keys for me.
Kipling
I'm hoping any 1V/OCT keyboard controller will be OK, in which case I'll use my ARP 3620 keyboard clone which can provide 1V/OCT CV and 10V+ gate (and trigger if required) signals.
Esla
I too would like to go down for PCB and faceplate.

Following this thread has been a pleasure!
seepaxton
it seems this will be a perfect fit into the new moog mother 32 case too. hot damn! really looking forward to getting these. down for a set!
StormB
Hi;

i m in for set too

Greetz
StormB
jdelgoulet
seepaxton wrote:
it seems this will be a perfect fit into the new moog mother 32 case too. hot damn! really looking forward to getting these. down for a set!
I saw that too ... 60HP hihi
jdelgoulet
Project Status :
I'm waiting for the first batch of 25 panels. The info I have right now : the metal panels will be ready October 21th. Then it should take about a week for painting and, then screen printing. If everything is ok, I'll launch the first big batch.

So stay tune w00t

And, for teasing you a bit more, Thomas just sent me this new demo : "Dark City". All tracks : MME. Just reverb and a bit of delay. No other instruments ...

[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/226566195" params="auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_use r=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true" width="100%" height="450" iframe="true" /]
DJBRUTAL
jdelgoulet wrote:
the metal panels will be ready October 21th.


That's my birthday! w00t I can has MME for my birthday? hihi
frozenkore
This is sounding great! I'm definitely in for a 60hp panel/pcb set. Cheers!
davide3737
jdelgoulet wrote:
Project Status :
I'm waiting for the first batch of 25 panels. The info I have right now : the metal panels will be ready October 21th. Then it should take about a week for painting and, then screen printing. If everything is ok, I'll launch the first big batch.

So stay tune w00t

And, for teasing you a bit more, Thomas just sent me this new demo : "Dark City". All tracks : MME. Just reverb and a bit of delay. No other instruments ...

[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/226566195" params="auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_use r=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true" width="100%" height="450" iframe="true" /]


Terrific demo. So nice to hear something so fresh sounding using venerable tech!
audiohawk
Excelent news and great demo!
Keep counting me for a set.

Thank you for your work. we're not worthy
rogueevo
rogueevo wrote:
This looks awesome, count me in for everything! we're not worthy


Just reaffirming my interest since April! hyper
Barcode
I still want a set and I can't wait. I even have the $$$ saved for this one.
Grumskiz
Also still want one This is fun!
soderstrom
+1 hyper
seepaxton
I was just wondering, is it +/- 5 volts at the cv in to control it?
Chrutil
So am I the only one that wants to build a mini moog replica?
I mean wood, keyboard , panel and all!
The thread is too long now and I avoided it until the project got more 'real', but it looks like it is coming along nicely, and I have finished my TTSH This is fun!
One thing I haven't quite understood is the format if this thing - there are individual modules and a 60 hp panel - but are there different PCB for these options or does the big panel have a bunch of smaller PCBs behind?
Just trying to figure out how a replica would work, in particular the switches being pcb mount, etc, seems like a solution for that is needed.

Anyone thinking in similar lines?
LED-man
Chrutil wrote:
So am I the only one that wants to build a mini moog replica?
I mean wood, keyboard , panel and all!
The thread is too long now and I avoided it until the project got more 'real', but it looks like it is coming along nicely, and I have finished my TTSH This is fun!
One thing I haven't quite understood is the format if this thing - there are individual modules and a 60 hp panel - but are there different PCB for these options or does the big panel have a bunch of smaller PCBs behind?
Just trying to figure out how a replica would work, in particular the switches being pcb mount, etc, seems like a solution for that is needed.

Anyone thinking in similar lines?


Most of us still have a minimoog and only want a eurorack minimoog format smile
mckenic
Chrutil wrote:
Anyone thinking in similar lines?


Me 100% - never had a Model D or could afford the newer synths so this looks like a brilliant way to get 'that' sound!
wired
Very much interested in first batch Rockin' Banana!
nickster
Chrutil wrote:

Anyone thinking in similar lines?

Have you seen the Crowminius project? This might also be suitable if you want a full sized mini. Different mini oscillator rev than this project so you could build both and have all your mini needs covered. which is what I'm currently aiming at doing.
davide3737
@jdelgoulet: Can you remind us about the power supply situation for the MME? Is it just the Eurorack connector? I'm thinking of putting it in the Moog Mother 32 case and there'd be no additional front panel space for something like a 4MS row power.
jdelgoulet
davide3737 wrote:
@jdelgoulet: Can you remind us about the power supply situation for the MME? Is it just the Eurorack connector? I'm thinking of putting it in the Moog Mother 32 case and there'd be no additional front panel space for something like a 4MS row power.


Yep. The usual +/- 12v psu header.
wired
Was thinking the same smile
LektroiD
mgronroos wrote:


Work in progress..
It still needs a few corrections and some aligning.
After this I will make the CV-strip with all ins and outs.

//Michael


Definitely my preferred panel, but will it line up with the footprint of jdelgoulet's panel PCB, or would we omit that board and wire directly to the synth board?
Troubleshooter
Count me in!
mgronroos
LektroiD wrote:
mgronroos wrote:


Work in progress..
It still needs a few corrections and some aligning.
After this I will make the CV-strip with all ins and outs.

//Michael


Definitely my preferred panel, but will it line up with the footprint of jdelgoulet's panel PCB, or would we omit that board and wire directly to the synth board?


Sadly no, this was my own idea (which has evolved a lot since this picture), so it would not fit the supplied PCB or a Eurorack in this form. It would need to be wired, and wires would have to go from this front panel to the panel pcb or the motherboard.

But then again, I think there may be further options later on that will be perfectly suited to this build. Sol let us all wait and see what jdelgoulet comes up with first.. hihi

//Michael
apophis93
In case I was not clear before 1 PCB / Panel Set.

Keep up the great work!

- Daniel
gipsycat
1 PCB/ 1 Panel for me please.

Merci
fluffybeard
1 pcb + panel, pretty please!
RadekTymecki
i'm definately into 1 or 2 panel/pcb set's
mrcase
ONe PCB/Panel set plz! SlayerBadger!
Neutron7
I would like to build one of these if this is the right place to reserve a pcb/panel
Randy
Any idea on cost yet?

Randy
duff
jdelgoulet wrote:
DabiDabDab wrote:
Prices should be coming in soon?


60HP Version Panel + PCBs set will be 180/200 euros.
I don't have prices yet for the individual modules.

All in all, a complete build (including knobs etc) will cost around 450/500 euros.
Randy
Thanks Duff!

Randy
wired
How can we preorder?
Crashlander42
I want a set as well.
magneticstripper
love to go on the list for a full set.
donttouchmyrice
I'd like a full set please!
Thank you
ThecureForSin
Nice progress!! (still want pcb/panel) we're not worthy
davealex
Looks like an exciting build and a fantastic synth! I'll be in for a full pcb set and panel. I, like others, am interested in a build including keyboard.
human.i.i.i.analogue
I'm in for a set!!!!!!
Suf-fuD
Please add me to the list for a full set also. Thank you!
Coorec
I'd need 2 sets now, since a buddy also wants one. we're not worthy
Poldenstein
Would love to sign for one set
Thank you!!
Isaiah
jdelgoulet
What options will the non-Euro builder have when it comes to construction?
Flying wires, I guess.
Are there any plans for alternative panels and/or control PCBs in the future?
Altitude909
Isaiah wrote:
jdelgoulet
What options will the non-Euro builder have when it comes to construction?
Flying wires, I guess.
Are there any plans for alternative panels and/or control PCBs in the future?


Why change anything? If you want to go bigger, get a crowminus and do flying wires there
ParkOne
hi Julien smile
Super boulot vraiment smile
Heureux de participer en reservant un kit complet, pls.
Merci
A+
Jm
xpmtl
I should resist...
tobb
cool avatar xpmtl!
batchas
tobb wrote:
cool avatar xpmtl!

True SlayerBadger!
But yours doesn't need blinky eyes... Scary zombie
Paul Aner
xpmtl wrote:
I should resist...


yeah well there are so many things I should also resist...
jdelgoulet
While waiting for the panels ... I created this Web App, just for you guys, so you'll be able to build the MME in no time w00t

( it's iPad friendly so you can take your ipad near your soldering iron w00t )

f_le_francais
It's Christmas before Christmas !! nanners It's peanut butter jelly time!
Clemdu
I CAN'T WAIT ! Looks like a great job on the web app hyper
PWM
This is just awesome!
mDang
What a great idea !!!
Jarno
The web app looks great, you really went to great lengths making the build doc as easy to follow as possible (it is a pretty daunting task to manually place components on these big boards, I still have my CrowBX to do).

Not my particular preferred way of working though (I always print out the bom and strike through components that are placed, whatever bag of components is within reach I'll place).
davide3737
The app is a great idea. So good to see the end finally in sight. You should sell 100 sets of PCBs and panel easily!
f_le_francais
davide3737 wrote:
You should sell 100 sets of PCBs and panel easily!

100 sets easily ???? zombie zombie

It's a crazy thing !!!
with over 58,000 views, and all your comments, I do not stop to tell him, he'll sell a lot of trucks !!!
he's a madman very frustrating and he does not sleep to better serve you !!!

End of this year will be rich: SW7 and MME....
Be patience.......
May the Force be with you.....
Starspawn
Tell us more about this SW7 ... grin
samuraipizzacat29
Starspawn wrote:
Tell us more about this SW7 ... grin


I think he meant star wars 7 if that wasn't clear smile
Starspawn
Ah damnit, I thought another project.
Looking more forward to Ash vs evil dead and Jessica Jones but hey, lets not derail to much grin
moogasm
Please put me down for a set.
JR21
A set for me too! Please SlayerBadger!
batchas
f_le_francais wrote:
davide3737 wrote:
You should sell 100 sets of PCBs and panel easily!

100 sets easily ???? zombie zombie

It's a crazy thing !!!
with over 58,000 views, and all your comments, I do not stop to tell him, he'll sell a lot of trucks !!!

smile

I also think this here is a great project, but I don't think that zthee sold thousands of 2600 because his thread got 460'379 of views, you know.

I guess I looked like 10 to 20 times since the first post of jdelgoulet and won't buy one.
I bet that there are wigglers here who looked like 50 times, when not more, into this minimoog thread since day one.
boops
Indeed ,me, more than 50 times ,sure wink
demian
2 sets please.
mgronroos
Well, Julien, you really take the word "DIY-kit" to a completely new level..
Vey impressive App, and a really great idea!
Serious work, and judging from your demos it is worth it! hihi

On the picture it looks as if the PCB har a 10-pin Euro connector, is that right?
That means, the JDMini does not accept CV/Gate from the bus?

I am asking only since I am considering making an internal connection from a Doepfer CV/Gate interface.

Do you see any drawbacks/dangers of making an internal connection?

Best Regards,
//Michael
zayance
Great Job.


Any news on availability?

thumbs up.


T.
goro
I can't wait! One set for me please!
zayance
I'll be in for a set as well.


Thanks.


T.
Chester
i need some tempco's for an altair 231 and would like to know what the spec is for the one's used in the minimoog. the service manual shows them as 1k -/+3% 1W . there is no info on what coeffieciant NTC or PTC ? .will i get away with using 0.25W tempco as a replacement........ any info would be much appreciated many thanks
Kipling
You may find some info on ruskeys.net
_lex
i am still interested in a set as well smile
Heavenly3lues
I'd be interested in a set!
phildao
Salut Julien,

Merci pour ton incroyable travail !
Peux tu me compter un kit complet ?

Phil
fredp
Salut Julien,

Super boulot!!

Je suis partant pour un kit complet!!

Merci

Fred
aquatarkus
I'm interested in a set!
MrRoper
Super interested in 2 pcb/panel. Got a mother 32 two tier that this will fit perfectly!!!
PK808370
Hello Julien,

As with many others here, I think this looks fantastic! Do you have a website? I couldn't find one in the thread.

Please register me for 1 pcbs/panel set.

Thank you!
julienvoirin
Bon boulot Julien smile
you can count me in for a set (or maybe 2)
cane creek
1 set please Mr. Green
johnnyquest
I must have a set too. Put me down for one.

Lee
BeNoog
Birthday came and went. Christmas is coming up. PayPal account is bursting. 2 sets for me please!
sicpaul
Great work. applause
One 60HP panel/pcb set for me too, please.
fuzzbass
You can count on me for at least one 60HP panel and pcb set. Thanks.
jdelgoulet
Manufacturing panels : one of a kind adventure ... For those who have read the whole thread, you know that I wanted to have panels manufactured near where I live. The main reason was : quality control, being able to fix any manufacturing issue etc etc. Well, that was a good idea 'cos some issues came into the party very frustrating but being able to discuss, see how manufacturers works helped a lot to fix them. The main issue has been during the laser cutting phase. As you can see on the picture, they look 'nice' but they had lots of scratch here and there and some glue was still sticking on the panel (from the plastic that protect the aluminum). A bit of 'magic glue remover' (given by the guy who do the powder coating - nasty product but works like nothing else !), some fine sanding and onto the powder coating. The pictures below show two versions. One is black mat, classic, the other one, which just looks awesome, is 'sanded mat black'. It gives a fine rugged 'classy' touch. (For those who wonder, I remember some Hifi system - NAD if I recall - used to have this sort of painting). For this prototype batch, I made only 4 panels of this kind mainly 'cos we were not sure that silk screen paint will stick on that ... Screen printing ... d'oh! I'm so glad to have found this nice guy who does it 'cos the first tries we did were not very successful. But he kept trying, calling ink manufacturers until he found the right process : screen print, leave it 48 hours to dry, then onto the oven, then leave it 24 hours to cool down. The result is just awesome and the nail test passed successfully ! (See pictures below).
Now during that time, I kept working on the web app, added some nice features and, right now, I have 4 'monkey testers' using it to build some MME. Basically, in those 4 people , only one knows how to solder hihi Meaning : if they all succeed, then anyone can build it ! This help me correct mistakes in the soldering guide. i've build one myself following the guide, plug it : it works w00t hyper Guinness ftw! (if you are a 'hardcore well organized soldering guy' then this could be done in one, one and half day).
No 'main issues' were found during the soldering despite some 'silk screen quarks': I found out that components that were not 'smashed' in eagle had silkscreen a bit off ... no big deal. I don't have picture of the finish board yet (I'm calibrating the beast) but I'll post some today or tomorrow. For now, I leave you with panels.













yan6
What an amazing update screaming goo yo

That sanded mat black is freakin amazing looking Trampoline
DJBRUTAL
love love love applause applause applause thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up screaming goo yo screaming goo yo screaming goo yo
Jop
The amount of detail you put into this clone is amazing! Thanks for the great update, panels look gorgeous (especially the sanded mat)

thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up
PK808370
Amazing looking!!!! I can't wait. Bananallama!
duff
Looks fantastic. we're not worthy
finnurbjarna
I had put my name down but it was a while back so I just wanted to re-iterate my interest in a full set.
SoundPool
Looks fantastic! Well worth all the extra effort to do it right. Can't wait to be able to build one of these up
mgronroos
Lovely work with the panels, Julien!
This is by far the most exciting DIY project of 2015!

We appreciate your strong commitment to this project.
Keep it up! grin
Jarno
Product design, instructions for use, process design and verification, serious product development going on!

Kudos!

(just came by to complement you on how you are handling this, I have the Minimoog VCF and VCA PCB I did a while back working, so I'm covered grin )

Edit:

Not a problem at all, but the "official" 3HE frontpanel dimensions have another set of holes in the middle of the panel, see for instance the Schroff catalogue (although they only have 63TE).
Poldenstein
Seen that everyone is reiterating his interest, let me reiterate mine too..
One set for me pleeease.
pepeastur
I will buy one PCB. The price and availibility?
PWM
Freaking amezing! <3
Altitude909
textured finish all day long. The smooth powder coat black scratches easily and it is really visible when it does

Why painting instead of anodize?
MrRoper
+1 for the textured finish. Looks killer!!!

Just to reiterate I'd like to be put down for 2 pcb/panel.

Thanks for all your great work!
jdelgoulet
Altitude909 wrote:
textured finish all day long.

Why painting instead of anodize?


I planned doing it anodized at first 'cos I have access to a CO2 laser machine. I did some tests and, yes, it's really nice. Now, the price of 'already black' anodized aluminum is quite high and some laser cutters leave a 'white' mark around the cutting edges so (that's why the project take so long), I went to see manufacturers who could anodize the panel once cut. The fact is, if you anodize, then your panel as to be very very polished, otherwise you'll see all the little marks here and there.
I guess people who use black anodized panels have them cut by a punching machine (CNC or not). It's fine for panel like, 16HP, 20HP but it's quite hard to find a punching machine that can cut 60HP in one pass ... I try with one manufacturer and he was forced to cut the 60HP length in like, 10/15 passes which , in the end, put some marks every where ...
A CNC router could be used but the price was way to high ...

Also, doing it the old way I can choose my color, my texture etc without having to worry about how it will end up. The process is the same. Imagine a MME 'Polar Edition' ... hum ... hihi
Altitude909
fair enough. Liking the textured better anyway smile
edwinm
That sanded matt black is great!
audiohawk
Both looking great.
Personally I'd go for the sand mat black one. NAD tank style!
Thank you for the update... Looking for a 60HP christmas sock! Hehe!

Thank you for your work we're not worthy
wired
Really looking forward to start soldering this one!
goro
eek! MY ASS IS BLEEDING

biftek
Panel looks great!

I'm definitely in for a set of 60hp pcb/panel. MY ASS IS BLEEDING
soderstrom
w00t w00t w00t hihi
nickster
Excellent progress. applause the panels look nice. I'm also liking the idea of a polar panel thumbs up
Kipling
The sanded matt finish looks great, similar to the TTSH I have. Just wish it had been available when I was having my ARP clone panels made. Maybe it was, but I was never offered it who knows.....

Still in for a 60HP kit.
cane creek
The Sanded Matt Black is

bsilverberg
Put me down for a 60HP panel/pcb set for me too, please.

Thanks!
Ben
bitflip
matte panel. is. gorgeous.

60 hp set for me, pls. hyper
aquatarkus
This looks amazing. In like Flynn for 60hp sets

Building a Crowminius as soon as my board gets here as well - will be fun to A/B test them!

Minimoog heaven... nanners Rockin' Banana!
aquatarkus
Julien

Quick question - a couple pages back in the thread you had a drawing of a panel that looked more like the Minimoog. Were you still planning to make a panel like that as well?
morelius21
hi

i like a kit please!

thanks wink
mnml
Hi Julien. This looks excellent. Put me down for 2!
cillianjohn
I'm down for a 60HP kit.
Looks amazing.
applause
S-Bahn
I wanna buy one 60HP!
mtrnn
When do you think you might start taking orders?
Already saving money for this, and the new panels just looks so amazing!
I just don't want to miss this one smile
ovian
This looks fantastic!

One PCB + Panel set for me please.
southphillysynths
I wanted to just mention again I would love a pcb set and panel. I hope that someone will take the reigns for a group buy for parts kits, I would forever be in your debt if I don't have to source parts! we're not worthy

Any Idea on the cost/when it will be ready?
Crashlander42
Restating my desire for a PCB set and panel because I guess that's a thing now.
mOBiTh
loving that granular/textured finish!
jdelgoulet
hi everyone !

As I get a lot of questions about price and availability in my muff inbox, I thought it would be a good point to answer here directly.

-Price : a complete MME (PCBs+Panel+Components+knobs+ shipping costs from all the different shops) will cost 443 euros. Of course this could be a little bit less or a little bit more depending on where you live and how good you are at sourcing components hihi
-Availability : unfortunately, it won't be possible to ship before the end of this year cry . I tried my best but there are factors that I cannot change (Manufacturering time, the fact that for some people 4 weeks are in fact 6 weeks very frustrating etc ...) My best bet is : end of January

Now, I will put a draft version of my webapp online soon. The main idea is to get your advice, returns and see how it can be enhanced to fit everyone needs. As you'll see there are some great features in it Mr. Green
Isaiah
jdelgoulet
Can I suggest you copy and paste this information into the first post of this thread and edit the title to make people aware of the update, please.
Hopefully this will avoid pages of questions that you have already answered! hihi

Keep up the excellent work! thumbs up
wired
Oh yes, great news, can't wait to start soldering this one!
soderstrom
Yeah, great news! applause
Microscopial
I'd love a full kit at that price for sure. Cheers Ross
mush
jdelgoulet wrote:

-Availability : unfortunately, it won't be possible to ship before the end of this year cry . I tried my best but there are factors that I cannot change (Manufacturering time, the fact that for some people 4 weeks are in fact 6 weeks very frustrating etc ...) My best bet is : end of January


Perfect. I won't have to ruin the christmas for my family (by being stuck to the DIY-station. wink )
STOJ
I am interested in pcb set and panel!
rogueevo
jdelgoulet wrote:
-Price : a complete MME (PCBs+Panel+Components+knobs+ shipping costs from all the different shops) will cost 443 euros. Of course this could be a little bit less or a little bit more depending on where you live and how good you are at sourcing components hihi


Everything needed to build the entire thing for that price is amazing! Can't wait!
southphillysynths
rogueevo wrote:
jdelgoulet wrote:
-Price : a complete MME (PCBs+Panel+Components+knobs+ shipping costs from all the different shops) will cost 443 euros. Of course this could be a little bit less or a little bit more depending on where you live and how good you are at sourcing components hihi


Everything needed to build the entire thing for that price is amazing! Can't wait!


agreed if its a complete full kit that is just killer!
Kipling
Quote:
-Price : a complete MME (PCBs+Panel+Components+knobs+ shipping costs from all the different shops) will cost 443 euros.


I think he's stating that the total end cost to build will be 443 Euros per MME, but that users source their own components which would take the cost of the PCB and panel kits (whatever they will cost) up to circa 443 Euros in total. I think the clue is in the "+ shipping costs from all the different shops" otherwise it would be just "+ shipping costs".
Check Mate
I think kipling is right!
"Jdelgoulet" stated somewhere that he will not offer full kits but PCB and Panel only.

I'd personally like to know whether he will sell and ship the PCB/Panel sets himself and by the user requests in this thread or if he'll sell the kits "first come first serve" or even have them sold by Synthcube, Thonk, etc.?
jdelgoulet
Sorry if some of you have misunderstood my writing :

- You buy PCB+Panel from me : 185 euros + shipping (which depends on where you live).
- You source and buy the components : 258 euros (In those 258 euros, the shipping from the different shops : tayda, radiospare etc is included but that's for France.)

The total cost of the build is 443 euros + shipping from me to you.

I won't offer complete kit : too time consuming and honestly I prefer working on new modules/synth than putting components in bags ;-)
audiohawk
Please concentrate on new modules/synths! we're not worthy
Macc29
How do I get into queue? I want one!
dwhaaat
Panel and pcb for me!
jdelgoulet
Build guide preview is online w00t MME Build guide
PWM
You sir, are amezing! hyper
DabiDabDab
What is the power consumption of this thing?
oberling
jdelgoulet wrote:
Build guide preview is online w00t MME Build guide


wow woah - you are truely running the extra mile there! SlayerBadger!
dwhaaat
jdelgoulet wrote:
Build guide preview is online w00t MME Build guide


I love the build guide. Props for going through that extra effort. It's peanut butter jelly time!
Coorec
jdelgoulet wrote:
Build guide preview is online w00t MME Build guide


Nice effort! applause

I noticed the links for BOMs are not yet working. Just reporting in case they already should.
edwinm
Very very cool build guide!
wired
Incredible work, thank you for this app!
morelius21
thanks for the guide! nanners
sammy123
Awesome. Still interested.
ZibraZibraZibra
can't wait for the PCB's or have i missed the ordering somewhere? i looked through the whole thing. hmm
mush
jdelgoulet wrote:

-Availability : unfortunately, it won't be possible to ship before the end of this year cry . I tried my best but there are factors that I cannot change (Manufacturering time, the fact that for some people 4 weeks are in fact 6 weeks very frustrating etc ...) My best bet is : end of January
nidas
jdelgoulet wrote:
Sorry if some of you have misunderstood my writing :

- You buy PCB+Panel from me : 185 euros + shipping (which depends on where you live).
- You source and buy the components : 258 euros (In those 258 euros, the shipping from the different shops : tayda, radiospare etc is included but that's for France.)

The total cost of the build is 443 euros + shipping from me to you.

I won't offer complete kit : too time consuming and honestly I prefer working on new modules/synth than putting components in bags ;-)


Fantastic I want to order pcb and panel.
Cheers
davealex
This is a fantastic effort, thanks!

I'm in for a PCB+Panel. Colorado, USA.

Thank you!!!
0904972
One 60HP panel + pcb set for me please.
DomMorley
I'll be in for a couple of sets when you're ready.
oneoff
awesome job w00t
thanks for all your work on this project!
One set of panel and PCB for me please Guinness ftw!
DonaldCrunk
I am also in for a set!
Figures
Would love to get on the list for a PCB and Panel
vicpop
Me too, if there is one
johnnyquest
Whenever the list gets started please add me to it.

Lee
fx0
jdelgoulet wrote:

Now during that time, I kept working on the web app, added some nice features and, right now, I have 4 'monkey testers' using it to build some MME. Basically, in those 4 people , only one knows how to solder hihi Meaning : if they all succeed, then anyone can build it !


i'd be curious to hear what happened to your monkey testers. did they all succeed?
jdelgoulet
fx0 wrote:

i'd be curious to hear what happened to your monkey testers. did they all succeed?


For now, two I've not yet started (too much work outside DIY). One that has never solder before has nearly complete the big analog board and it looks good so far. For the one that already knew how to solder, he is still soldering.

One sure thing is that the webapp seems to its job quite well. The only questions I get was 'how far from the PCB should the transistors be soldered' and 'Should the big capacitors (ie electrolytics) touch the PCB ?'
wired
More than happy to be a monkey tester if you should need one. Guinness ftw!
brother303
wired wrote:
More than happy to be a monkey tester if you should need one. Guinness ftw!


Wouldn`t we all be happy?

hihi
Coorec
brother303 wrote:
wired wrote:
More than happy to be a monkey tester if you should need one. Guinness ftw!


Wouldn`t we all be happy?

hihi


No you wouldnt. Only me.

hihi
boops
Is There a bom file somewhere ?thanks
J'ai essayé l'app ,cela serait pratique si on pouvait aller directement à une page vu qu'il y en a beaucoup...Non?
brother303
Coorec wrote:
brother303 wrote:
wired wrote:
More than happy to be a monkey tester if you should need one. Guinness ftw!


Wouldn`t we all be happy?

hihi


No you wouldnt. Only me.

hihi


Guinness ftw!
stringsthings
also interested in pcb/panel set smile
wiktoramps
Also would like to be added to the pcb/panel list

in MA, USA, Thanks!
Troubleshooter
You can still count me in for a panel and PCB set.
fx0
jdelgoulet wrote:
fx0 wrote:

i'd be curious to hear what happened to your monkey testers. did they all succeed?


For now, two I've not yet started (too much work outside DIY). One that has never solder before has nearly complete the big analog board and it looks good so far. For the one that already knew how to solder, he is still soldering.

One sure thing is that the webapp seems to its job quite well. The only questions I get was 'how far from the PCB should the transistors be soldered' and 'Should the big capacitors (ie electrolytics) touch the PCB ?'


thank you for your answer, that is nice to hear. i asked because i, too, have never soldered before. i would obviously practice a bit on some other little unimportant project, but would undertake this here as my first bigger one. i'm not too worried since i'm usually quite good at doing fiddly stuff like this with my hands, and quite the anal perfectionist, just wanted to know if anything in there would be considered 'advanced'.

so just in case you are counting all these entries, which i suppose you are not, but just in case: i'll take panel+PCB, anytime it's ready.

thanks again!
boops
Is There a bom file somewhere ?thanks
oskargold
Awesome project! I also would like to be added to the pcb/panel list!
oneoff
boops wrote:
Is There a bom file somewhere ?thanks


would also like to know... thanks!
Coorec
Could not wait any longer and filled my need otherwise. Put me off the list please. Sorry.
IImyment
Just been on the github link: the build app is just AWESOME (sorry to shout wink woah
tekzon
where do I order? or pay?
thanks
Protofrangiste
I'm interested in a pcb and panel set, add me to the list please!
clusterchord
@jdelgoulet

wow fantastic work!! i am definitely interested in this. will probably ask someone to build me one.

fwiw i own the rev2 minimoog, and played few others, and your first demos sound closer to the ballpark than for example the modern smt based AJH. MME has some of the mid range saturation and growl i don't hear with the latter, which i find cleaner and bright in comparison. also, keeping the original panel layout with addition of PWM will be a joy to use. bravo.


few questions if i may: since you mentioned staying close to the original, i began to wonder if you added buffers on octave switches?

standard manufactured rev2 didn't have any and its one of its main quirks. it was later offered as frequent factory modification, and finally introduced as standard on the new oscillator board. basically you get little innacuracy going up or down with several octaves - not something worth of being faithful to from the original, especially since buffering is relatively simple and cheap. iirc moog usually did it with a few 741.

will there be enough room on the PCB to use some older metal can transistors instead of modern, little plastic ones? and due to greater proximity of components on the pcb, did you ever encounter oscillator "lock" to one another ?


thanks
jdelgoulet
To all : whish you all the best for this new year ! As you saw, I was not very active on Muff. I'm busy designing the web site and had to build 7 MME for friends and customers. See picture below Mr. Green

For people asking 'where I can find the bom', it will be available soon on the github build page.

For people asking 'where I can order/pay', I'm design the web site right now and as soon as I'm ready to ship, I'll post the link here.

@clusterchord

since you mentioned staying close to the original, i began to wonder if you added buffers on octave switches?
Yes I did. Now you could omit them during your build and simply solder 3 wires (one for each VCO) and you are done. If necessary I'll post a picture in the build guide.

will there be enough room on the PCB to use some older metal can transistors instead of modern, little plastic ones?
Not sure, it depends on the transistor you would like to use/replace. PM me if necessary.

due to greater proximity of components on the pcb, did you ever encounter oscillator "lock" to one another ?
Oh yes ... I did ... but not anymore ! w00t hihi
To be honest, this has been one of the most tricky thing to tackle. First, oscillator lock is something that occurs on the real mini rev 2. Sometimes people thing that this is some modulation pot leaking (it might be sometimes) but from what I saw it is mainly due to the oscillator design and PCB routing. The timing cap is connected to ground (compared to other various design) and when the cap reset, it shoots on the ground ... so the whole system PSU lines move up and down ... On the real minimoog they are some sense lines going from the PSU to the oscillator board near oscilaltor 3 (sounds logical as OSC3 is the one you use as a LFO) but clearly that is not enough to prevent oscillator locking.
In the MME, each oscillator has its own PSU lines and a nice ground routing to cope with this issue.

PCBs porn anyone ? Mr. Green
PK808370
Hi jdelgoulet, very excited to hear from you!! and very excited about this project. I passed up on the TTSH because I knew this was coming smile

Will there be plenty of stock for everyone who's interested? Or do we need to be quick to make sure we get one? Will it matter if we had stated our interest earlier?

Thanks for putting this awesome project together and have a great Sunday Rockin' Banana!
boops
Amazing Christmas gifts wink
applause
Vive la France.... Rockin' Banana! Guinness ftw!
orenhag
Super cool! Me want bad smile
kinrat
I get more excited every time I look at this thread!

Cold shower time...
audiohawk
Awesome! applause
Almost there. hyper
daryll
PCB and panel here as well

Cheers

Daryll
nickster
Every time you post an update I get all excited again. hihi wondering if you have any further details regarding possibly having a larger faceplate in the future, more similar to the original?
Fwestivus
Stick me on the list for a PCB and panel, please! These look amazing!
GiliRose
Once I get my rig fired up, this is 1st in line
(with too many other first must haves!)
love
sawersky
I would like to be on list as well.
Been reading this post almost since You started, and like many other i say AMAZING JOB !!!
jdelgoulet
[Quick UPdate] : Just to let you know that panels and PCBs manufacturing orders have been sent. Let's wait a wee bit more ... *** argh, I won't be ready for NAMM ... hihi ***
mush
jdelgoulet wrote:
[Quick UPdate] : Just to let you know that panels and PCBs manufacturing orders have been sent. Let's wait a wee bit more ... *** argh, I won't be ready for NAMM ... hihi ***


Is it okay to ask about the size of the order?
rogueevo
mush wrote:
Is it okay to ask about the size of the order?


Not to impose but I'm also curious. It seems there's so much interest it might of been good to get firm commitments to know how many to get on a first pass in order to use the size of the order perhaps get everything for cheaper?
Sparky
Exciting news!
I hope the order is big because I posted that I'll take one waaaay back in this thread and didn't want to repeat my interest over and over....but I have to now! Looking great, can't wait to start!
antf4rm
1pcb + panel for me please!

How cool! A minimoog in a euro panel! All on one pcb?
fyfno
hello, i'm in for one set of PCB(s) + panel. really nice project!
brock0791
2 panels and pcb's please
digitaleyes
Hope you've got a boat load of boards on order. I see about 10 request per page, of 29 pages.

BTW I'm down for 2 pcb's and 2 panels
Paul Aner
Did I understand correctly that will there be a website to purchase this set? Or shall I ask to be put on the list?
jdelgoulet
Paul Aner wrote:
Did I understand correctly that will there be a website to purchase this set?
That's right !
southphillysynths
Awesome to hear the update, I have been watching this for a pretty long while and I will be buying one!

I just took a look at the build website. THAT is simply amazing!! complete genius on your part to have the sort of slideshow that you can click on and the parts are flashing. this will make the build go so smoothly

I assume that the panel and parts will be available to order through you jdelgoulet. I figure parts are on us, I really really hope that some wiggler out there will put together a bom/group buy!!!!

If someone is please let me know!
fafaman
Hello! Found this thread a couple of days ago, congrats to jdelgoulet! I hope we will get the chance to order PCB's and access open sourced project soon!
kvitekp
Great project! Put me down for one 60HP panel/pcb set shipped to California, please.

/Peter
kipervarg
I'm in for a panel + pcb set.

Great project.
synthysynth
Im also in for a Panel and PCB! Cant wait!
mikefiction
please add me to the list for a panel/pcb set
shredsickgnar
I'm in for a PCB and Panel! Just let me know where I can buy.
Coorec
jdelgoulet wrote:
-Availability : unfortunately, it won't be possible to ship before the end of this year cry . I tried my best but there are factors that I cannot change (Manufacturering time, the fact that for some people 4 weeks are in fact 6 weeks very frustrating etc ...) My best bet is : end of January


1st of feb ... good day to ask about news regarding availability w00t

.
masterofstuff124
hmmm maybe a different question. How long do you plan on having these PCB's available? with all the hype im thinking ill avoid the initial rush. That said I still very much want to build this unit. Id be happy to buy a set as we get closer to summer(happy birthday to me.)
Randy
southphillysynths wrote:
Awesome to hear the update, I have been watching this for a pretty long while and I will be buying one!

I just took a look at the build website. THAT is simply amazing!! complete genius on your part to have the sort of slideshow that you can click on and the parts are flashing. this will make the build go so smoothly

I assume that the panel and parts will be available to order through you jdelgoulet. I figure parts are on us, I really really hope that some wiggler out there will put together a bom/group buy!!!!

If someone is please let me know!


Build website!? Where?

Randy
jdelgoulet
Quote:
Build website!? Where?
Randy

Here : http://guinguin-instruments.github.io/MME/
Randy
jdelgoulet wrote:
Quote:
Build website!? Where?
Randy

Here : http://guinguin-instruments.github.io/MME/


Thanks!

Randy
boops
jdelgoulet wrote:
Quote:
Build website!? Where?
Randy

Here : http://guinguin-instruments.github.io/MME/


With 158 pages on just the analog board ,is it possible to add a navigate function to go to a spécific page ?if its possible ,it Will be really Nice ,Thanks
latigid on
boops wrote:
jdelgoulet wrote:
Quote:
Build website!? Where?
Randy

Here : http://guinguin-instruments.github.io/MME/


With 158 pages on just the analog board ,is it possible to add a navigate function to go to a spécific page ?if its possible ,it Will be really Nice ,Thanks


You can just hack the URL and add any page you want.

Might have missed it, but what the source for LS3954? Or is there an alternative?
boops
Oh great. Thanks...
Kipling
Quote:
Might have missed it, but what the source for LS3954? Or is there an alternative?


I got mine from Micross
latigid on
Kipling wrote:
Quote:
Might have missed it, but what the source for LS3954? Or is there an alternative?


I got mine from Micross


Interesting, they seem like a custom fab? 3-4 GBP is way better than the 24 EUR from Mouser, although for a minute I was tempted to grab the last three they had wink.
Kipling
latigid on wrote:
Kipling wrote:
Quote:
Might have missed it, but what the source for LS3954? Or is there an alternative?


I got mine from Micross


Interesting, they seem like a custom fab? 3-4 GBP is way better than the 24 EUR from Mouser, although for a minute I was tempted to grab the last three they had wink.


Yes I thought the price was quite reasonable and delivery was quick. I bought the TO-71 package; hope it's the right one. There is a £25 minimum order (+ VAT) from Micross.
enj_music
Is there still no BOM or Ordering location for boards/pcbs?
jdelgoulet
Micros is where I bought the LS3954s. For those who are in the US, give LS a call/email : you'll pay in dollars and shipping rates might be better ...


Quote:
Is there still no BOM or Ordering location for boards/pcbs?

I need to do a re-run my bom/build guide scripts as components names have changed. I renumbered the whole thing to avoid having , for example, two R1 resistors in the BOM (one for the Analog Board and one on the Control Board).
As for the web site, I'm still working on it.
davide3737
jdelgoulet wrote:
Micros is where I bought the LS3954s. For those who are in the US, give LS a call/email : you'll pay in dollars and shipping rates might be better ...


Quote:
Is there still no BOM or Ordering location for boards/pcbs?

I need to do a re-run my bom/build guide scripts as components names have changed. I renumbered the whole thing to avoid having , for example, two R1 resistors in the BOM (one for the Analog Board and one on the Control Board).
As for the web site, I'm still working on it.


We're obviously all eagerly awaiting for your project to finally see the light of day. You mentioned at the start of the thread (Dec 2014) that you or someone else might offer 'rare parts' (like the LS3954s). Is this still something you're considering? Given that the project does include rare parts, it would be helpful to have an updated, realistic cost for the complete build.

Many thanks and bon chance for a successful completion.
dingebre
davide3737 wrote:
jdelgoulet wrote:
Micros is where I bought the LS3954s. For those who are in the US, give LS a call/email : you'll pay in dollars and shipping rates might be better ...


Quote:
Is there still no BOM or Ordering location for boards/pcbs?

I need to do a re-run my bom/build guide scripts as components names have changed. I renumbered the whole thing to avoid having , for example, two R1 resistors in the BOM (one for the Analog Board and one on the Control Board).
As for the web site, I'm still working on it.


We're obviously all eagerly awaiting for your project to finally see the light of day. You mentioned at the start of the thread (Dec 2014) that you or someone else might offer 'rare parts' (like the LS3954s). Is this still something you're considering? Given that the project does include rare parts, it would be helpful to have an updated, realistic cost for the complete build.

Many thanks and bon chance for a successful completion.


Linear Systems still makes the LS3954 in TO71, TO78, DIP, and SOIC see attached datasheet. They even have a SPICE model if you want it.

I've purchased them in the recent past for less than $6.00 ea at TrendSetter.com

http://www.linearsystems.com/products_details.php?pr=jfet-amplifiers-- duals&pro_id=18

David
Quadram
BOM is online ...
enj_music
Quadram wrote:
BOM is online ...


Only if you feel like going through every page of the build manual to write up the BOM
mush
enj_music wrote:
Quadram wrote:
BOM is online ...


Only if you feel like going through every page of the build manual to write up the BOM


Ehh? Missed the 'Bill of material' links on the top?
enj_music
Sorry! Found it
davide3737
jdelgoulet wrote:
Micros is where I bought the LS3954s. For those who are in the US, give LS a call/email : you'll pay in dollars and shipping rates might be better ...


Quote:
Is there still no BOM or Ordering location for boards/pcbs?

I need to do a re-run my bom/build guide scripts as components names have changed. I renumbered the whole thing to avoid having , for example, two R1 resistors in the BOM (one for the Analog Board and one on the Control Board).
As for the web site, I'm still working on it.


Hi. For Q72 (2N3906), you've indicated 'matched set of 1'. What do you mean by that? Or should it be the Q14 and Q98 (2N3904) that are matched? On another thread, results suggested that transistors from the same strip are well matched anyway, so how critical is this?
davide3737
jdelgoulet wrote:
Micros is where I bought the LS3954s. For those who are in the US, give LS a call/email : you'll pay in dollars and shipping rates might be better ...


Quote:
Is there still no BOM or Ordering location for boards/pcbs?

I need to do a re-run my bom/build guide scripts as components names have changed. I renumbered the whole thing to avoid having , for example, two R1 resistors in the BOM (one for the Analog Board and one on the Control Board).
As for the web site, I'm still working on it.


Also Q8, Q21 and Q34 (LS3954) are shown as a 'transistor matched pair'). Does this mean all three should be matched? And how does one go about getting them matched when they're a rare part only available from Micross?
Starspawn
davide3737 wrote:
jdelgoulet wrote:
Micros is where I bought the LS3954s. For those who are in the US, give LS a call/email : you'll pay in dollars and shipping rates might be better ...


Quote:
Is there still no BOM or Ordering location for boards/pcbs?

I need to do a re-run my bom/build guide scripts as components names have changed. I renumbered the whole thing to avoid having , for example, two R1 resistors in the BOM (one for the Analog Board and one on the Control Board).
As for the web site, I'm still working on it.


Also Q8, Q21 and Q34 (LS3954) are shown as a 'transistor matched pair'). Does this mean all three should be matched? And how does one go about getting them matched when they're a rare part only available from Micross?


It means that the IC is in function an already matched pair.
Matched pair is the description, not an instruction.
davide3737
Starspawn wrote:
davide3737 wrote:
jdelgoulet wrote:
Micros is where I bought the LS3954s. For those who are in the US, give LS a call/email : you'll pay in dollars and shipping rates might be better ...


Quote:
Is there still no BOM or Ordering location for boards/pcbs?

I need to do a re-run my bom/build guide scripts as components names have changed. I renumbered the whole thing to avoid having , for example, two R1 resistors in the BOM (one for the Analog Board and one on the Control Board).
As for the web site, I'm still working on it.


Also Q8, Q21 and Q34 (LS3954) are shown as a 'transistor matched pair'). Does this mean all three should be matched? And how does one go about getting them matched when they're a rare part only available from Micross?


It means that the IC is in function an already matched pair.
Matched pair is the description, not an instruction.


Aha! Thanks for the explanation.
Kipling
I've compiled all three BOMs into a single 3-sheet Excel spreadsheet, with all the URLs retained for ease of ordering, and for ticking off what you've ordered and from where.

EDIT: looks like you'll have to add the Male MicroMatch cable headers as these are not in the BOMs. You will need 6 x Mouser Part #: 571-215083-4 and 4 x Mouser Part #: 571-215083-6.
Reality Checkpoint
Kipling wrote:
I've compiled all three BOMs into a single 3-sheet Excel spreadsheet, with all the URLs retained for ease of ordering, and for ticking off what you've ordered and from where.


Genius. Thank you. we're not worthy
audiohawk
Kipling wrote:
I've compiled all three BOMs into a single 3-sheet Excel spreadsheet, with all the URLs retained for ease of ordering, and for ticking off what you've ordered and from where.


Thank you. we're not worthy
Kipling
See my edited post above re the unlisted Male MicroMatch cable connectors. I have not added these to my BOM file.
davide3737
Kipling wrote:
I've compiled all three BOMs into a single 3-sheet Excel spreadsheet, with all the URLs retained for ease of ordering, and for ticking off what you've ordered and from where.

EDIT: looks like you'll have to add the Male MicroMatch cable headers as these are not in the BOMs. You will need 6 x Mouser Part #: 571-215083-4 and 4 x Mouser Part #: 571-215083-6.


I don't see any mention of cable in the BOM to go between these headers.
sammy123
I'm not familiar with LS. Do you have a link?

Edit: http://www.linearsystems.com/index.php

jdelgoulet wrote:
Micros is where I bought the LS3954s. For those who are in the US, give LS a call/email : you'll pay in dollars and shipping rates might be better ...


Quote:
Is there still no BOM or Ordering location for boards/pcbs?

I need to do a re-run my bom/build guide scripts as components names have changed. I renumbered the whole thing to avoid having , for example, two R1 resistors in the BOM (one for the Analog Board and one on the Control Board).
As for the web site, I'm still working on it.
Kipling
davide3737 wrote:
Kipling wrote:
I've compiled all three BOMs into a single 3-sheet Excel spreadsheet, with all the URLs retained for ease of ordering, and for ticking off what you've ordered and from where.

EDIT: looks like you'll have to add the Male MicroMatch cable headers as these are not in the BOMs. You will need 6 x Mouser Part #: 571-215083-4 and 4 x Mouser Part #: 571-215083-6.


I don't see any mention of cable in the BOM to go between these headers.


Not certain as I don't have any connectors yet, but I suspect cutting up an old PC IDE cable will probably do - the spacing is 0.05" or 1.27mm
jdelgoulet
Obviously BOMs are online hihi
For each bom there is a downloadable '.ods' file (Open office excel spreadsheet). It's late over here so I'll compile the 'overall bom' tomorrow.
davide3737
jdelgoulet wrote:
Obviously BOMs are online hihi
For each bom there is a downloadable '.ods' file (Open office excel spreadsheet). It's late over here so I'll compile the 'overall bom' tomorrow.


There are a couple of errors in the Mouser links for the analog board:

C50, C53, C57, C69 220uF elect cap - link directs to 10uF
R2, R17, etc. 4.7k resistor - link directs to 4.3k
aquatarkus
Julien had said he made the size of the MME 60HP so that there would be room to add MIDI to CV, LFO etc.

I'm wondering what modules people were planning to add AND could someone suggest an LFO that would behave like the Mini's LFO...not looking for 1000 waveforms, super long rates etc. Just want it to behave like the Minimoog's LFO to keep the project as "Mini" as possible It's peanut butter jelly time!

Thanks in advance
brother303
aquatarkus wrote:
could someone suggest an LFO that would behave like the Mini's LFO...


If you want an lfo like the Mini...just leave it out. hihi

A Mini never had an lfo, osc 3 can be used as a modulation source.
aquatarkus
Quote:
If you want an lfo like the Mini...just leave it out. hihi


hihi Yes, I know the Mini never had one - but wanted to be able to use all three oscillators with a separate modulation source similar to the third oscillator that's all...perhaps I should have worded that differently
brother303
Have you seen the new black modules from Doepfer?



Midi-CV, ringmod, lfo and some more basic stuff. Might work well for you.
Bough
Hey, was there an audio demo of this yet? I don't feel like going through thirty pages looking for it...
aquatarkus
Nice -

Great that the module is black as well.
Gary Dad
Bough wrote:
Hey, was there an audio demo of this yet? I don't feel like going through thirty pages looking for it...

here are the relevant soundcloud pages with the demos:

https://soundcloud.com/tomterrien/sets/mme-demos
https://soundcloud.com/guinguin-instruments
KvotheKingkiller
brother303 wrote:
Have you seen the new black modules from Doepfer?



Midi-CV, ringmod, lfo and some more basic stuff. Might work well for you.


Holey Moley those look nice!
clusterchord
aquatarkus wrote:
Julien had said he made the size of the MME 60HP so that there would be room to add MIDI to CV, LFO etc.

I'm wondering what modules people were planning to add AND could someone suggest an LFO that would behave like the Mini's LFO...not looking for 1000 waveforms, super long rates etc. Just want it to behave like the Minimoog's LFO to keep the project as "Mini" as possible It's peanut butter jelly time!

Thanks in advance


well, if you want to use all three mme oscillators, as well as have another separate lfo as it is in minimoog, that would mean a fourth oscillator,if you were to obey the design to the letter..

one option would be to pickup AJH oscillator (the "vintage" blk panel version), as its modelled after early minimoog. another combination is, and i am not up to date on this, the MME designer mentioned the posibility of making separate pcbs for each section. you could build another MME oscillator, make a cosmetically compatible panel for it. but realistically i think its too complicated. i'd get a small intellijel dixie vco/lfo, or if you want more flexibility, like vc waveshaping, something like bubblesound uLFO. its probably one of, if not the best analog lfo in euro. it can also go up to mid audio range.

edit: yeah that black a-110-2 looks like just what the doctor ordered. dunno how low does it go into lfo range?

three things i intend to squeeze into the 104hp skiff together with MME, to round of a standard mid70s set; are a ring modulator, sample n hold and phaser. possibly another lfo and a diode type filter.
jdelgoulet
[Update]: I know you guys have been waiting for ages ... and you'll have to wait a little bit more cry I picked up the panel on Monday only to find out that those guys cut the wrong dxf panel very frustrating . By chance they admitted their mistake and will do another run. We are getting close to release but it's quite painful ...

Now as for what module could go along with the MME I would suggest, of course, a LFO , a multiple (so you can route LFO to all the PWM inputs) and a Midi-CV gate interface. Another good candidate would be a ring mod. As the MME has unbuffered VCOs output connectors, one could take those, pass them thru the ring mod and back into the external audio-in. Cranck up the external in pot to its max and see what happen Mr. Green
southphillysynths
jdelgoulet wrote:
[Update]: I know you guys have been waiting for ages ... and you'll have to wait a little bit more cry I picked up the panel on Monday only to find out that those guys cut the wrong dxf panel very frustrating . By chance they admitted their mistake and will do another run. We are getting close to release but it's quite painful ...

Now as for what module could go along with the MME I would suggest, of course, a LFO , a multiple (so you can route LFO to all the PWM inputs) and a Midi-CV gate interface. Another good candidate would be a ring mod. As the MME has unbuffered VCOs output connectors, one could take those, pass them thru the ring mod and back into the external audio-in. Cranck up the external in pot to its max and see what happen Mr. Green


agreed and a sub oscillator!! highpass filter also?
davide3737
jdelgoulet wrote:
[Update]: I know you guys have been waiting for ages ... and you'll have to wait a little bit more cry I picked up the panel on Monday only to find out that those guys cut the wrong dxf panel very frustrating . By chance they admitted their mistake and will do another run. We are getting close to release but it's quite painful ...


Oh well, at least my Mouser order has just arrived. And the 2N4058s are on back order until 25 Feb anyway.
oneoff
As for midi->cv - I think That the new Arturia key step would be a nice
Keyboard controller-arpeggiator and a sequencer candidate, the size is right
And it's got cv,gate and mod wheel outs!
muted
I would happily buy the PCB as well! Does one sign up somewhere?
Troubleshooter
Still in for a set of pcb's and panel or even a kit...
Really love the interactive soldering guide!
PWM
TS said their will be a website where you can buy PCB and panel.
sgenevay
Hi there !
Just a question, how much LS3954 you guys do you order, to have at least the 3 matched pair needed ?
Thanks.
jdelgoulet
sgenevay wrote:
Hi there !
Just a question, how much LS3954 you guys do you order, to have at least the 3 matched pair needed ?
Thanks.


About 200 ... MY ASS IS BLEEDING
You just need to order 3. They don't have to be matched. THEY ARE a "matched pair'. Read : A LS3954 is made of 2 transistors that are matched.
funkymogli
big ups for that build website, best ive seen!
and thanks for the project, looks and sounds amazing!!!
Illiac
1 pcb and panel, please The Chewbacca Defense
nickster
I see you need to make a minimum order of £25 to buy the ls3954 so I'm wondering if anyone in Europe wants to join together so we don't end up paying for more than we really need. Also the Moog style knobs from musikding are out of stock so if anyone knows of a suitable replacement do please say.
CeeJay
I have also some questions regarding the LS3954(A):

The footprint on the PCB looks like it is made for the TO-78 version.
Or is it better to use the smaller TO-71?
And we want the better A-version, right?
And Micross has also 2N3954(A), is it not exactly the same? Did not find any differences in the data sheet.

@nickster: yes, joining together is a good idea. Micross wants £15 for shipping to Germany! And all prices are without VAT!
LudfisterSound
According to the Linear Systems web site 2n3954 and LS3954 are the same part.
sgenevay
No there is a little difference in data sheet, a 5 instead of a 10 in "matching" part...
muted
nickster wrote:
I see you need to make a minimum order of £25 to buy the ls3954 so I'm wondering if anyone in Europe wants to join together so we don't end up paying for more than we really need. Also the Moog style knobs from musikding are out of stock so if anyone knows of a suitable replacement do please say.


Sure!
brother303
muted wrote:
nickster wrote:
I see you need to make a minimum order of £25 to buy the ls3954 so I'm wondering if anyone in Europe wants to join together so we don't end up paying for more than we really need. Also the Moog style knobs from musikding are out of stock so if anyone knows of a suitable replacement do please say.


Sure!


Same here! thumbs up
muted
So general n00by question (and I know there is no straight answer) but prices vary greatly if one orders parts from china over eBay, however it would suck to compromise quality of a build of this size...

Which (type of) parts are essential to buy from some of the suppliers listed in the BOM, and which can be bought at a cheaper price from china?

Also, any other considerations / advice regarding good prices and suppliers are welcome smile
mOBiTh
So by strange coincidence Micross called me yesterday morning to discuss the LS3954!

ODd timing - they wanted to know if I was interested in buying a load - so I said there would be a wave of orders of these on the horizon and make sure they're well stocked.

I think I have 3 left over from building TTSHs but if I need to order more I'll advertise the remainder on here for sale cool
brother303
mOBiTh wrote:
I think I have 3 left over from building TTSHs but if I need to order more I'll advertise the remainder on here for sale cool


Yes please, I´ll take a couple...
memorygardens
mOBiTh wrote:
So by strange coincidence Micross called me yesterday morning to discuss the LS3954!

ODd timing - they wanted to know if I was interested in buying a load - so I said there would be a wave of orders of these on the horizon and make sure they're well stocked.

I think I have 3 left over from building TTSHs but if I need to order more I'll advertise the remainder on here for sale cool


ill take a few as well
johnnyquest
I'll take some too if there's enough left.

Lee
CeeJay
sgenevay wrote:
No there is a little difference in data sheet, a 5 instead of a 10 in "matching" part...


Yes, that is the difference between the A and non-A versions. But there is no difference between 2N3954(A) and LS3954(A)
Vorg
I'm from Europe and I'm into the Euro-mini, into the ls3954 group buy and I can also be high into crack if you ask me to, Julien. Drunken Homer Simpson w00t!! we're not worthy
sicpaul
If an European ls3954 group buy will happen, i'd love to join in hihi
clusterchord
me too for european group buy.
treseja
I am also in Europe and like to join
PWM
mOBiTh wrote:
So by strange coincidence Micross called me yesterday morning to discuss the LS3954!

ODd timing - they wanted to know if I was interested in buying a load - so I said there would be a wave of orders of these on the horizon and make sure they're well stocked.

I think I have 3 left over from building TTSHs but if I need to order more I'll advertise the remainder on here for sale cool



Count me in!
ri0h
I'm in for those LS3954!
sammy123
Id be in for some LS3954 as well. But I'm in the US.
Altitude909
Delbani has/had the 2n3954As in the US ($14.95 each)
oneoff
How about buying the 2n3954 from utsource?
I never had any issues with any transistors that
I ordered from them...
fredp
hi guys,
i am interested aswell with a LS3954 group buy!!
Altitude909
oneoff wrote:
How about buying the 2n3954 from utsource?
I never had any issues with any transistors that
I ordered from them...


Somewhat rare and expensive parts are prime targets for counterfeits, I would only buy from known good sources. Utsource is not some place that falls in that category, they are just another Chinese chip clearance place and wouldn't know if they had fakes but would gladly sell them to you
dingebre
Altitude909 wrote:
Delbani has/had the 2n3954As in the US ($14.95 each)


Trendsetter can get new 3954As for about $5 - $6 each. I just bought a bunch. I've bought Linear Systems parts from Trendsetter on several occasions. Great service and good prices.

UTSource does not test, but they have always stood behind their products for me. I have always had great experience with them. I don't think the 3954 is that rare or in demand to justify the effort to counterfeit

David
Altitude909
That's exactly the type of alarm bell that I avoid, a third of the normal price. 2n3954s are $22 at Mouser.
LED-man
EBay seller: smallpartsbigdifference

Last 3 orders (5 items for 18usd) works fine.
I ordered many times from other Chinese shops for the TTSH and got fakes.
(Was checked with my handmade microcontroller based tester)

I prefer ordering by micross !
If needed I can start a groupbuy for europe.
(Delivery costs by German post is cheap)

Better is a option with the pcb sale wink
dingebre
Altitude909 wrote:
That's exactly the type of alarm bell that I avoid, a third of the normal price. 2n3954s are $22 at Mouser.


No alarm. They are new parts made by Linear Systems. Trendsetter is one of their US distributors.

David
cane creek
sicpaul wrote:
If an European ls3954 group buy will happen, i'd love to join in hihi


and ill hop on too thumbs up
cane creek
These 3x LS3954's required, what type TO-71, TO-78, PDIP etc ?
mgronroos
It is the TO-71 tin can type.
I bought mine from micross, as suggested by the BOM.

I received Linear Systems, so I guess micross is good and not too expensive.
I paid 4.65 Euros each, but freight to Sweden was 19.69 Euros, so that was a bit on the expensive side.

A group buy for Europe would definitely be a good idea I think.
dingebre
jdelgoulet wrote:
Rare parts are mainly 2N4058/2N4402 which could be replaced if one does not care about "an exact replica". During development, [...]


The BOM lists a 2N4402 for the "Value" of Q6, Q19, and Q32, but the the link at Mouser and Farnell brings up a 2N4401, not the same PNP (02) versus NPN (01). Which one should it be? By your comment in this post, it's the 4402, right?

If so, Nikko - Dalbani seems to have stock.

Thank you.

David
davide3737
dingebre wrote:
jdelgoulet wrote:
Rare parts are mainly 2N4058/2N4402 which could be replaced if one does not care about "an exact replica". During development, [...]


The BOM lists a 2N4402 for the "Value" of Q6, Q19, and Q32, but the the link at Mouser and Farnell brings up a 2N4401, not the same PNP (02) versus NPN (01). Which one should it be? By your comment in this post, it's the 4402, right?

If so, Nikko - Dalbani seems to have stock.

Thank you.

David


Rats. I blindly ordered the NPN version. Well done for spotting the error!
Kipling
Small Bear has nearly 10,000 2N4402. Mammoth Electronics list it but are out of stock.

Mouser stock the 2N4403 which is a higher gain version of the 2N4402 but otherwise very similar.

I think we need Julien to confirm that it is the PNP version (2N4402) we need and not the NPN 2N4401. The soldering guide indicates 2N4402.

I'm personally hoping it's PNP as I bought a job lot of 100 2N4402 which won't otherwise get used. If they are correct I'll have plenty to sell on to UK buyers if required.

EDIT: The original early Model D uses 2N4402 PNP, but 3 in each oscillator; Julien's design appears to use just one per oscillator and given its physical location adjacent to the LS3954 appears to be correct (Q10, Q21 and Q34 in the original). I imagine he's used two different PNP transistors for the other two, possibly the 2N3906.
jflower
please take my money! I too am interested in a panel/pcb

thanks!
nickster
Interestingly the bom correctly lists the mouser and farnel links as the 2N4401 so the question is can these be used instead?
PWM
And if we go group buy, isn't it a better idea to start a new thread for this?!
Kipling
nickster wrote:
Interestingly the bom correctly lists the mouser and farnel links as the 2N4401 so the question is can these be used instead?


No, the 2N4401 will not be OK in place of the 2N4402 as the 4401 is NPN and the 4402 PNP. I suspect that an error was made in thinking that the 2N4401 was close enough to be OK.
jdelgoulet
[Update] :
I received the first batch of PCBs about two weeks ago and found a mistake in them very frustrating I don't know yet how it has been introduced but I'll found out. I ordered new prototypes, build one of them and the issue is gone so I'm about to re-order a batch with this issue fixed. In the mean time, I might offer those "faulty" boards at a lower price for those who are not building the eurorack version (read : if you build a MME in your own case, then there is no issue).

Panel :
They are in the screenprinter hands ...

Build Guide :
Sorry for those who order the 2N4401 ... it's a mistake. I updated the bom (remove the wrong references/links). For those who order stuff @banzai, they do sell it.
Maco
How much will be this ones ^

Probably can afford one jejej
sgenevay
Hi julien.
The thing is i will build it with my own 19" rack case, with an other panel but following your panel measurements. Will it be a problem with those pcbs then ?
I mean.. What is the problem on board exactly ?
Sylvain
jdelgoulet
sgenevay wrote:
Hi julien.
The thing is i will build it with my own 19" rack case, with an other panel but following your panel measurements. Will it be a problem with those pcbs then ?
I mean.. What is the problem on board exactly ?
Sylvain


Those boards will be suitable only for people who will mount "flying" switches and pots.

The actual problem is that the octave rotary switch has wrong connection on the control board PCB. (when you select 2" on the panel it connect to 4" and so on, so the last position (LOW) is not connected). If one could "rotate" the octave switch by 15° then the PCB would be good but it is not possible. However, when using flying connection everything is ok.
sgenevay
mmmmm ok ... so maybe no as then all pot must be "flying" that's it ?
stupid question maybe but there is no way to simply rotate the cap ?
What the lead time for next PCB batch ? (just to know) smile
Sylvain
BeNoog
I'll take two sets of PCBs off your hands.
/Beno
oneoff
3954 at trendsetter are currently out of stock.
dingebre
oneoff wrote:
3954 at trendsetter are currently out of stock.


They can get them in a couple of weeks. Email them. Sheri is very quick to respond.

I bought 30 and will put some on my web site at my cost plus shipping when I get them. Should be about two weeks or so.

David
johnnyquest
Hi Julien,

I will take a set of the first batch since I will be wiring to a panel. Please PM me when you can, I am PayPal ready and live in the United States.

Thanks,
Lee
Aottens
Hello Julien,

I know that I'm totally new here, but I'd like to sign up for a PCB and panel please.

Thanks!

Aernout
jdelgoulet
Hi everyone !

Just to let you know that the new batch has been sent to manufacturing. They announced 4 weeks for the delivery but that might be a bit less than that.
davide3737
jdelgoulet wrote:
Hi everyone !

Just to let you know that the new batch has been sent to manufacturing. They announced 4 weeks for the delivery but that might be a bit less than that.


I hope you've got a few hundred sets of PCBs and panels on order!
jdelgoulet
I do.
audiohawk
Thank you for the update.
Patiently waiting for this to blossom.
Thank you for your work we're not worthy
e45tg4t3
Hey there,

i would be in for 2 of the "freewire pcbs" could you send me an PN?

BR
Ben
sgenevay
great ! smile smile smile can't wait smile smile smile
sammy123
So excited!!!!
apophis93
I have said it before and wanted to reiterate that I am up for a panel / pcb set. Have you started a list? PM me for payment details etc... hyper
Kipling
Julien has stated that he will be selling via his website when he is ready rather than through this forum, as it was with the TTSH. I imagine he's just using this forum to gauge numbers.

I'm sure he'll announce the website URL in due course.
synthysynth
Im confused as to what version of the minimoog this is supposed to be. Is it the newest ua726 version or the old RA moog? Trying to get as close to my old model D as possible so might go with minimal modules but I like the control panel on this one.
jdelgoulet
synthysynth wrote:
Im confused as to what version of the minimoog this is supposed to be. Is it the newest ua726 version or the old RA moog? Trying to get as close to my old model D as possible so might go with minimal modules but I like the control panel on this one.


This is not the UA726 version, neither the old RA Moog w00t This is the rev 2. The version 'in between those two'. For now, I'm concentrated on the whole 60HP version and this is what will go out first. I do have eurorack modules 'ready' for each section but I'm still thinking about the design of each one, particularly the VCOs and VCF.
fx0
jdelgoulet wrote:
This is not the UA726 version, neither the old RA Moog w00t This is the rev 2. The version 'in between those two'. For now, I'm concentrated on the whole 60HP version and this is what will go out first. I do have eurorack modules 'ready' for each section but I'm still thinking about the design of each one, particularly the VCOs and VCF.


Do you plan on any differences between the individual modules and the 60HP version? I want a complete set so i would just get the 60HP, but I'd also like it to be as 'modular' as possible, so if the individual modules will have more CV access points I maybe will reconsider and wait.
apophis93
Kipling wrote:
Julien has stated that he will be selling via his website when he is ready rather than through this forum, as it was with the TTSH. I imagine he's just using this forum to gauge numbers.

I'm sure he'll announce the website URL in due course.


Thanks! a lot of posts on the thread and I missed that one.

Cheers!
Daniel
fx0
jdelgoulet wrote:
Quote:
Also, do you know how to add Linear FM inputs to the VCOs?
Hum ... my first guess would be to take the output of an opamp adder (so 2 opamps) and feed that to the -4V input of each VCO current loop. (May worth a try on the eurorack single version)



Since many of the available Minimoog oscillator clones offer linear FM, I figured it can't be super hard to implement, generally speaking. I searched a bit around and found these schematics:
http://hem.bredband.net/bersyn/VCO/MVCO_s.pdf
(coming from here: http://hem.bredband.net/bersyn/VCO/vco_ministyle.html)

Can you tell from looking at these which pin on your board would be the one to use?

I'd really love to put switches above the CV1-3 inputs to switch between 1v/oct and linear FM. If that turns out to be impossible, I will probably just add linear FM inputs to an expander panel, among the individual Oscillator outs. (Btw, did they turn out to be buffered or unbuffered?)

With linear FM inputs it would be possible to do both linear FM and linear detune (@Isaiah, I think you were very interested in this, as am I) by simply feeding a small constant voltage into the linear FM inputs. Great for dialing in beating unisons that don't change the beat rate when the pitch changes. That is a big part of the sound of the Moog Taurus (the first one), or the Haible Living VCOs. Newer Moogs like the Sub Phatty have a dedicated 'Beat' parameter to achieve the same thing.
batchas
Il est même pas sorti que tu reçoies déjà des questions sur des composants, des modifs... J'imagine ce qui t'attend une fois qu'il sera en vente!
COURAGE w00t
muted
For all of the components that need matched pairs, how many do you guys order?

For instance of the
MPS8097 (11 matched pairs needed)
2N3904 (couple of pairs needed)
2N3906
2N3392

Also, what does "a matched set of 1" mean?
jdelgoulet
muted wrote:
Also, what does "a matched set of 1" mean?


ah you found a bug in the app ... w00t
If you look closely at the bom, there is another transistor which is a "matched set of 1". Basically you will have to match both (ie: one 2N3904 and one 2N3906). This is quite a pain if you are not lucky ... but those are so cheap ...
jdelgoulet
I know some good friends that will be more than happy Guinness ftw! w00t Now I need to take some time to test them in a 4 voice mode configuration (ala OB SEM) before they live the house ...

Notice the "paparazzi" quality of the picture hihi


fma
whoa. just. Whoa.

we're not worthy
davide3737
jdelgoulet wrote:
muted wrote:
Also, what does "a matched set of 1" mean?


ah you found a bug in the app ... w00t
If you look closely at the bom, there is another transistor which is a "matched set of 1". Basically you will have to match both (ie: one 2N3904 and one 2N3906). This is quite a pain if you are not lucky ... but those are so cheap ...


So what happens if the 2N3904 and 2N3906 aren't matched?
mgronroos
[quote="jdelgoulet"]I know some good friends that will be more than happy Guinness ftw! w00t Now I need to take some time to test them in a 4 voice mode configuration (ala OB SEM) before they live the house ...

One of the best photos I have ever seen! applause
Enough there to go eight voice...you just need a monster CV/G-interface!grin

Well done!
Jarno
+1
Wow! That's A LOT of components! grin
Kipling
So the panels are in then, and looking good as far as the paparazzi-style photos show thumbs up

Just the Control Board PCBs to wait for we assume, then hopefully good to go with the web shop.

In the meantime and before you dispatch your built up units to their eager recipients, any chance of some hi-res shots of the finished PCBs, individually (both sides) and all together in exploded view, so we can be sure how the flying ribbon cables go? It seems fairly straightforward from the soldering guides but it would be great to see a photo of how it all goes together.

Cheers and looking forward to building one ASAP Guinness ftw! we're not worthy we're not worthy
davide3737
Kipling wrote:
So the panels are in then, and looking good as far as the paparazzi-style photos show thumbs up

Just the Control Board PCBs to wait for we assume, then hopefully good to go with the web shop.

In the meantime and before you dispatch your built up units to their eager recipients, any chance of some hi-res shots of the finished PCBs, individually (both sides) and all together in exploded view, so we can be sure how the flying ribbon cables go? It seems fairly straightforward from the soldering guides but it would be great to see a photo of how it all goes together.

Cheers and looking forward to building one ASAP Guinness ftw! we're not worthy we're not worthy


+1 for that suggestion.
davide3737
At the risk of appearing completely ignorant, exactly how critical is it to match transistor pairs these days? I've seen discussions elsewhere suggesting that transistors on the same reel are very consistent and that matching may not be necessary. If it is essential, is there an easy way to do it?
depth20
It was discussed in the TTSH-thread, from what I read I didn't feel the need to match the transistors in the filter since the tolerance is pretty good these days. So I would guess it really doesn't matter much in this build either.
Bamboombaps
I bought one of thesehttp://m.gearbest.com/testers-detectors/pp_314646.html?currency=G BP&gclid=CL69uOXN3ssCFQ0SGwodojcNYQ and then sorted them into their various values by taping them to a bit of paper.

The 3906s that matched exactly (hfe + the other value , can't remember what it is offhand) I taped together in pairs or quads and the others are still on that bit of paper until I figure out whoch of the values is more important to have matched seriously, i just don't get it
masterofstuff124
how long will you offer the boards/panels? im curious if i need to get one right when they are available or can i wait until this summer when i will have more money/time. Thanks! the build looks sweet! Finally a minimoog i can afford!!!!!
davide3737
Bamboombaps wrote:
I bought one of thesehttp://m.gearbest.com/testers-detectors/pp_314646.html?currency=G BP&gclid=CL69uOXN3ssCFQ0SGwodojcNYQ and then sorted them into their various values by taping them to a bit of paper.

The 3906s that matched exactly (hfe + the other value , can't remember what it is offhand) I taped together in pairs or quads and the others are still on that bit of paper until I figure out whoch of the values is more important to have matched seriously, i just don't get it


That's a good find! Thanks for that.
jdelgoulet
depth20 wrote:
It was discussed in the TTSH-thread, from what I read I didn't feel the need to match the transistors in the filter since the tolerance is pretty good these days. So I would guess it really doesn't matter much in this build either.


Well, it does particularly in the filter output stage. If transistors are not matched properly you won't have a great resonance. Concerning the 2N3904, 2N3906 it's a builder point of view. The better they are matched, the better the tracking will be when you'll play the "filter" (ie when you want to play a nice theremin sound with the filter resonance).
jdelgoulet
Kipling wrote:
So the panels are in then, and looking good as far as the paparazzi-style photos show thumbs up

Just the Control Board PCBs to wait for we assume, then hopefully good to go with the web shop.

In the meantime and before you dispatch your built up units to their eager recipients, any chance of some hi-res shots of the finished PCBs, individually (both sides) and all together in exploded view, so we can be sure how the flying ribbon cables go? It seems fairly straightforward from the soldering guides but it would be great to see a photo of how it all goes together.

Cheers and looking forward to building one ASAP Guinness ftw! we're not worthy we're not worthy


I will post high res photo in the build guide for sure. I'm not doing it right now 'cos the panels you see are from the first silk screening tests. The one that are coming are the "black sanded" one which a lot nicer.
As for the ribbon cables, you're guessing right. Just put the ribbon, press the red connector. Done. But again you're right, I need to make a page on the build guide 'cos they are small and it would be good to advice people about the right tool to "press them".
Kipling
Thanks Julien

For transistor testing/matching I highly recommend the Peak Electronic Design DCA75; http://www.peakelec.co.uk/acatalog/dca75-dca-pro.html The rest of their range is also well worth considering for passive component testing.

Do keep in mind that whatever device or method you use to match transistors (or any semiconductor), the result is quite dependent upon the temperature of the device under test and even handling them makes a difference. Allow all devices to stabilise in temperature before testing.

If you have all similar devices on a card tape then only handle the tape and not the devices themselves, and write the hfe and Vbe (the most critical parameters) on the the card tape and then choose pairs based on matching or near identical hfe and Vbe values.
yan6
Kipling wrote:
Thanks Julien

For transistor testing/matching I highly recommend the Peak Electronic Design DCA75; http://www.peakelec.co.uk/acatalog/dca75-dca-pro.html The rest of their range is also well worth considering for passive component testing.

Do keep in mind that whatever device or method you use to match transistors (or any semiconductor), the result is quite dependent upon the temperature of the device under test and evcontinuallythem makes a difference. Allow all devices to stabilise in temperature before testing.

If you have all similar devices on a card tape then only handle the tape and not the devices themselves, and write the hfe and Vbe (the most critical parameters) on the the card tape and then choose pairs based on matching or near identical hfe and Vbe values.


This is crazy important and i remember somewhere within the ttsh thread an experiment was run, showing the effects of picking the transistor up by hand to place it in a matcher. If i recall correctly it took something like 12-15 min for the devixe to settle back down to true room temperature and effected the reading drastically. I remember having this exact issue, i wss placing them in the matcher and would see my multimeter slowly and continually drop readings. If i find that post i will add it here
yan6
Kipling wrote:
Thanks Julien

For transistor testing/matching I highly recommend the Peak Electronic Design DCA75; http://www.peakelec.co.uk/acatalog/dca75-dca-pro.html The rest of their range is also well worth considering for passive component testing.

Do keep in mind that whatever device or method you use to match transistors (or any semiconductor), the result is quite dependent upon the temperature of the device under test and evcontinuallythem makes a difference. Allow all devices to stabilise in temperature before testing.

If you have all similar devices on a card tape then only handle the tape and not the devices themselves, and write the hfe and Vbe (the most critical parameters) on the the card tape and then choose pairs based on matching or near identical hfe and Vbe values.


This is crazy important and i remember somewhere within the ttsh thread an experiment was run, showing the effects of picking the transistor up by hand to place it in a matcher. If i recall correctly it took something like 12-15 min for the devixe to settle back down to true room temperature and effected the reading drastically. I remember having this exact issue, i wss placing them in the matcher and would see my multimeter slowly and continually drop readings. If i find that post i will add it here
CeeJay
Are these component testers you linked to really good enough for transistor matching? The specification of the last one says:
VBE accuracy: +-1% +-0,006V
VBE resolution: typ. 3mV - max. 6mV
The resolution of all these AVR Transistor Tester clones is not better.

Don't we want them to be matched <2mV?
depth20
If you match your transistor too well you'll lose that nice vintage tone and it'll sound like a vst. Miley Cyrus
Pfive
If you match your transistor too well you'll lose that nice vintage tone and it'll sound like a vst

i think you're right hihi
for matched transistors i use this yusynth
3mv to 5mv is good
i have seen some guys who had matched capacitors but not transistors seriously, i just don't get it
jdelgoulet
CeeJay wrote:
Don't we want them to be matched <2mV?


Yep, that what you need to do.
Sony Crocket
Hi Julien.

I have to order some parts from Banzai music, and I want to order the knobs for that project. Are those ones what you used?

http://www.banzaimusic.com/Synth-knob-Synthie-4-Black.html

Thanks!

David
jdelgoulet
Sony Crocket wrote:
Hi Julien.

I have to order some parts from Banzai music, and I want to order the knobs for that project. Are those ones what you used?

http://www.banzaimusic.com/Synth-knob-Synthie-4-Black.html

Thanks!

David


Yep, those are the same.
salih03
i saw that these parts are listed on the bom as smd/smt parts:

CA3046M
LM2991
TL1963ADCQR
TL1963A

is smt needed for the pcb ?
if not, is it possible to find trough hole ?
jdelgoulet
salih03 wrote:
i saw that these parts are listed on the bom as smd/smt parts:

CA3046M
LM2991
TL1963ADCQR
TL1963A

is smt needed for the pcb ?
if not, is it possible to find trough hole ?

You need those exact part number. Those are large SMD so quite easy to solder.
Kipling
Deleted - sorry posted to wrong thread
masterofstuff124
so is the 60hp for the minimoog clone finalized? recently built a huge rack cabinet and am planning what to put where. Id like to leave an appropriate space open for this beast. thanks again!
oneoff
how critical is are the Apem toggle switches?
they are quite expensive.
is it possible to use other brands or the size is important?
(i noticed that they are a little higher then more common switches like C&K etc. - 12mm VS 8mm with the C&K)

thanks!
Kipling
oneoff wrote:
how critical is are the Apem toggle switches?
they are quite expensive.
is it possible to use other brands or the size is important?
(i noticed that they are a little higher then more common switches like C&K etc. - 12mm VS 8mm with the C&K)

thanks!

If you are planning on wiring to a remote panel as some are, the make and size will be irrelevant, but if like most you will be using Julien's panel then the terminal size, spacing and body height will all be critical.

I'm hoping 60hp is the final size as I've ordered a Moog Mother 32 60hp case to put it in.
jdelgoulet
Kipling wrote:

I'm hoping 60hp is the final size.

It is !

Concerning the choice of APEM switch : first the model are the one with solder lugs. Why ? because they are the most common available APEM switch in this series. They do exist with solder pins but not all shops have them.
Secondly, yes, they are expensive but they are rock solid.
Also, they do have the correct height so the panel is nicely align with the PCBs.
And finally ... they are made in France !! w00t APEM
sgenevay
final point is maybe the most important characteristic of the switch !!! who cares about solidity, size and alignement ? !!! eheheheh hihi
muted
So... Any Europeans able to ship out the LS3954's? Im located in denmark hmmm.....
tobb
muted wrote:
So... Any Europeans able to ship out the LS3954's? Im located in denmark hmmm.....


you can order online from micross in uk
Kipling
tobb wrote:
muted wrote:
So... Any Europeans able to ship out the LS3954's? Im located in denmark hmmm.....


you can order online from micross in uk


There is a £25 minimum order so I ordered a few extra and can spare a set of three if you care to PM me.
muted
Kipling wrote:
tobb wrote:
muted wrote:
So... Any Europeans able to ship out the LS3954's? Im located in denmark hmmm.....


you can order online from micross in uk


There is a £25 minimum order so I ordered a few extra and can spare a set of three if you care to PM me.


I just might, however just to be sure, which of the following are the correct format?

Kipling
The TO-71 ones
enj_music
jdelgoulet wrote:
Kipling wrote:

I'm hoping 60hp is the final size.

It is !

Concerning the choice of APEM switch : first the model are the one with solder lugs. Why ? because they are the most common available APEM switch in this series. They do exist with solder pins but not all shops have them.
Secondly, yes, they are expensive but they are rock solid.
Also, they do have the correct height so the panel is nicely align with the PCBs.
And finally ... they are made in France !! w00t APEM


Is the panel drilled for the lugs, or will we have to solder wires to the lugs and pads?
jdelgoulet
enj_music wrote:

Is the panel drilled for the lugs, or will we have to solder wires to the lugs and pads?


I guess you mean "is the PCB drilled for lugs". Yes it does. In the MME, there is no wiring to do. The only exceptions are the ribbon cables.
muted
This has probably alteady been covered, but just to be sure:

The BOM says to buy 3 x LS3954, but the link to Micross on the BOM says LS3954A. It is NOT the A version that is needed, just the LS3954 correct? In the TO-71 can?
jdelgoulet
muted wrote:
This has probably alteady been covered, but just to be sure:

The BOM says to buy 3 x LS3954, but the link to Micross on the BOM says LS3954A. It is NOT the A version that is needed, just the LS3954 correct? In the TO-71 can?


Take the A one. See the datasheet here : http://www.linearsystems.com/assets/media/file/datasheets/LS3954A_LS39 58.pdf

'A' one has better temepature drift , better offset voltage and the price difference between LS3954 and LS3954A is very small.
muted
jdelgoulet wrote:
muted wrote:
This has probably alteady been covered, but just to be sure:

The BOM says to buy 3 x LS3954, but the link to Micross on the BOM says LS3954A. It is NOT the A version that is needed, just the LS3954 correct? In the TO-71 can?


Take the A one. See the datasheet here : http://www.linearsystems.com/assets/media/file/datasheets/LS3954A_LS39 58.pdf

'A' one has better temepature drift , better offset voltage and the price difference between LS3954 and LS3954A is very small.
Alright, thanks, Ill buy the LS3954A in the TO-71 can then from Micross. Ill buy 3 extra - if anyone needs 3 of specifically these, pm me - I'm located in Denmark.
Zensac
PM sent!

I'm also in Denmark BTW. Thanks.
LED-man
jdelgoulet wrote:
Hi everyone !

Just to let you know that the new batch has been sent to manufacturing. They announced 4 weeks for the delivery but that might be a bit less than that.


any new update about the sale ?
enj_music
LED-man wrote:
jdelgoulet wrote:
Hi everyone !

Just to let you know that the new batch has been sent to manufacturing. They announced 4 weeks for the delivery but that might be a bit less than that.


any new update about the sale ?


Is this batch the legendary final boards/panels? grin
muted
Okay here is a n00b question: All resistors I have bought from Tayda are 1%'ers and not the carbon 5%'ers. Will this be a problem, no right?
PWM
Nope.
muted
thumbs up
CeeJay
Edit: ALL SOLD!

------------------------------------------------------
I have 3 mini parts kits to sell, so you can save some shipping cost.
Micross is charging 15£ for shipping to Germany (and this is like all prices on there page without 20% VAT). So that makes 18£ = 22.66€ !!!
I ordered 12 x LS3954A TO-71 for 3.51£ each. Together 42.12£+20% = 50.54£ = 63.62€ + 22.66€ for shipping = 86.28€ / 4 = 21.57€ for 3 pieces.
I also ordered some more Thonkiconn jack sockets and tempco resistors from Thonk and some more 2N4402 transistors from Banzai.

So my mini kit will contain:
3 x LS3954A TO-71: 21.57€
3 x 1% Tempco resistors 1K 3300ppm: 3.60€
3 x 2N4402 transistors on tape: 0.33€
17 x Thonkiconn jack sockets + washers + knurled nuts + hex nuts: 6.00€

Together: 31.56€ + shipping to you (Germany prefered)
Will only sell 3 x parts kits as listed above, not separate!
Please PM!
-------------------------------------------------------

Edit: ALL SOLD!
muted
I was wondering somethin peculiar: There are a couple of capacitors, whose voltage tolerances are lower than listed in the BOM. Example:

C1: 33uF-10%-35V Tantalum Capacitor TaydaElectronics

Links to: http://www.taydaelectronics.com/33uf-16v-radial-tantalum-capacitor.htm l

which only goes to 16V and not the 35 V as listed by the BOM. Is this a problem?

The voltage tolerances for the components linked to in the BOM are also lower for
C71: 6.8uF-10%-50V (TAYDA LINK has 25V)
C8, C10, C19, C21, C23, C24, C36, C90, C91: 47uF-50V-10%-LOW ESR (MOUSER link has 25V)
C88: 4.7uF-10%-63V (TAYDA link has 50V)
batchas
muted wrote:
I was wondering somethin peculiar: There are a couple of capacitors, whose voltage tolerances are lower than listed in the BOM.

I know jdelgoulet mentionned he made this project doable for everybody and that's cool cause I'm sure you'll be able to learn a lot with this project. But I'm not sure I would start with a project like the minimoog as very first project, where you'll need to solder more than 800 components you do not know, plus SMDs, and go through 197 pages of a building guide.
Anyway, for sure a good way to learn. Mostly if you have to troubleshoot a project of this size or find a cold joint once you have all components in place thumbs up

Out of experience, I am aware that giving an personal advice and saying what I honestly think on this forum might not be the smartest move, but que sera sera...
muted
batchas wrote:
muted wrote:
I was wondering somethin peculiar: There are a couple of capacitors, whose voltage tolerances are lower than listed in the BOM.

I know jdelgoulet mentionned he made this project doable for everybody and that's cool cause I'm sure you'll be able to learn a lot with this project. But I'm not sure I would start with a project like the minimoog as very first project, where you'll need to solder more than 800 components you do not know, plus SMDs, and go through 197 pages of a building guide.
Anyway, for sure a good way to learn. Mostly if you have to troubleshoot a project of this size or find a cold joint once you have all components in place thumbs up

Out of experience, I am aware that giving an personal advice and saying what I honestly think on this forum might not be the smartest move, but que sera sera...
I appreciate your concern. I have done some simple stuff - the CB55 drum clone and some other projects, and I feel that I'm learning a lot! However, at some point it is necessary to advance, and I'm sure it will be difficult with a project this size but as you say, I might learn something and perhaps even end up with an awesome module in the end! Either way I'm not gonna ship back all the components which I have already bought for the project from all over the world as many others on here.

I just figured the circuit takes +-12V, and the max for the tantalum cap I mentioned is 25V, so that's at least potentially close to max.

Either way, if the answer to my question is trivial, why not give it? cool
batchas
muted wrote:
batchas wrote:
muted wrote:
I was wondering somethin peculiar: There are a couple of capacitors, whose voltage tolerances are lower than listed in the BOM.

I know jdelgoulet mentionned he made this project doable for everybody and that's cool cause I'm sure you'll be able to learn a lot with this project. But I'm not sure I would start with a project like the minimoog as very first project, where you'll need to solder more than 800 components you do not know, plus SMDs, and go through 197 pages of a building guide.
Anyway, for sure a good way to learn. Mostly if you have to troubleshoot a project of this size or find a cold joint once you have all components in place thumbs up

Out of experience, I am aware that giving an personal advice and saying what I honestly think on this forum might not be the smartest move, but que sera sera...
I appreciate your concern. I have done some simple stuff - the CB55 drum clone and some other projects, and I feel that I'm learning a lot! However, at some point it is necessary to advance, and I'm sure it will be difficult with a project this size but as you say, I might learn something and perhaps even end up with an awesome module in the end! Either way I'm not gonna ship back all the components which I have already bought for the project from all over the world as many others on here.

I just figured the circuit takes +-12V, and the max for the tantalum cap I mentioned is 25V, so that's at least potentially close to max.

Either way, if the answer to my question is trivial, why not give it? cool

This project looks indeed very nice. And the Minimoog is a great synth.
It's very cool if you already did some projects. This is what I was pointed at. Starting from scratch would be not so easy with so many components which need to be soldered, but like this you'll be able to concentrate on something big and learn very much indeed.

Your question is not a trivial at all. Everyone can profit from this kind of questions while involved in first DIY projects and ordering from a BOM.

I'm sure you'll get your answer very soon thumbs up
dsf
Any news on when webshop will be available to purchase this? or was it already posted? couldn't find it sad banana
davide3737
dsf wrote:
Any news on when webshop will be available to purchase this? or was it already posted? couldn't find it sad banana


You're not the only one wondering that! hmmm.....
jdelgoulet
No worries ... the screen printer guy just screw up 210 panels ... I picked them up last week and only 15 were sort of 'ok'. I had to take a decision so choose to have them clean by a company specialized in that. I received the 'blank' panel on monday and now every day, after work, I'm sanding them again to remove any residue. They should be out to the painting factory by monday morning and will be at the screen printer shop the week after. This time I'll be there to control the process as, obviously, we don't have the same level of 'quality' ... In the mean time, I'm searching for manufacturer/manufacturing alternative as I don't want that sh** to happen again for the next batches.

On the picture below you can see a 'bad screen printing panel' and an 'acceptable' one which ,compared to the prototype I had before, is clearly a bad one too.



Bamboombaps
For Christ's sake dude that's a real pain sorry about that.

Similar thing happened to the guy doing the jasper wasp clone.

The mind boggles why would you not check them as they come out when you are doing it??

Keep going man you are doing gods work
jdelgoulet
From what I understood, the ink in the first panel of the 200 series was drying to quick that , if the panel was wrong, he couldn't 'erase' it. So he asked the ink manufacturer a solution which was to add some product to slow down the drying process ... but as the panel are sanded the ink was more 'liquid' then instead of having sharp letter it get more and more blurry. But what I did not understand is why for god sake he did not stop !
demian
It's the ink to blame, it's not good for the brains.

I hope you don't have to pay for the extra costs / work this brings with.
tobb
are the pcb's already available?
mnml
The Old Crow has also been working on a Minimoog Clone for eurorack:
http://www.cs80.com/crowminius/
and a thread here:
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=149541

Looks to be about $600...
Barcode
thumbs up
brother303
Any news here?

cool
kitkat
I am in for a set.
Well done man !
cupwise
not really sure i understand the mini module concept. are they separate modules or just separate boards that plug into a main board? sorry if this is answered in the thread, i cant find where it was discussed and the search apparently still isn't working
nickster
The current offerings will be a single pcb for all the modules but with the controls on a separate pcb which mounts onto the faceplate.
There has been talk about a future release of separate modules for the eurorack format, but nothing along these lines will be released until after the current project is out the door as far as I know.
Synthsense
Nice project, demos, panel and everything else, indeed

Do someone know how many octaves or notes can be played from a CV keyboard?

Cheers! Guinness ftw!
TimeActor
This is amazing...didn´t see it earlier.
I´ve the same problem...i couldn´t effort a original mini - til yet :-)
I´ll take one or two in the future when i´ve money for that!

Thank you for the good work!
jdelgoulet
Quick update : I picked up some panels from the painter on Friday. I didn't went with the sanded black version but a new "anodized black". This for 2 reasons :
- all the people who saw the sanded black and the 'anodized black' preferred the anodized version (me too hihi )
- the fact that the sanded panel paint is not 'that smooth' might have been the reason for the bad screen prints.

I should get the rest of the panels by tomorrow. I'm waiting for the screen printer guy. We should have a meeting hopefully this week. Fingers crossed.
Altitude909
Make sure your screener has appropriate ink for anodized panels, getting anything to stick to aluminum oxide is a chore to say the least. The ink that they used that stuck to powdercoat very well may be no good for aluminum oxide. When I went through this, they needed an UV cured epoxy ink to get it to stick to the anodized aluminum I was using. The first stuff they used, you could remove the screen letter by letter since it didnt bond well
Altitude909
dbl post..
jdelgoulet
Thanks for the warnings but the paint is the same as the sanded black one. It is called "black anodized" but it is not anodized at all hihi - those paint manufacturers have lots of fancy names for their product : 'natural sand', ' green forest' ...
Huba-Swift
Haha! this looks amazing. I absolutely love full on DIY without having to purchase any kits (they always charge too much). I will be looking into this. Looks great!
nickster
Good news. Been having a nightmare getting my Yocto build to work probably builder errors no doubt. So looking forward to this project what with the excellent documentation and part spacing on the boards. Nearly there now w00t
thx2112
Ugh. Sometimes get that exact same problem screenprinting panels. very frustrating
merms
I've been lurking but, this is too amazing to keep quiet. I'm 111% interested in a set!

Thanks for the fantastic work!! applause
boops
jdelgoulet wrote:
Quick update : I picked up some panels from the painter on Friday. I didn't went with the sanded black version but a new "anodized black". This for 2 reasons :
- all the people who saw the sanded black and the 'anodized black' preferred the anodized version (me too hihi )
- the fact that the sanded panel paint is not 'that smooth' might have been the reason for the bad screen prints.

I should get the rest of the panels by tomorrow. I'm waiting for the screen printer guy. We should have a meeting hopefully this week. Fingers crossed.


Courage wink
segerfalk
I'll grab a couple of kits too smile Amazing work!
Navymud
Amazing job !! screaming goo yo screaming goo yo
Bamboombaps
august.klier
im in for the pcb&panel set.

as i understand it will be available from a webshop?at the build guide website?
if so, is it just not yet available? or do we need to preorder?

jdegoulet, could you quickly verify webshop=build guide website and will be visible once available for order?
Synthsense
I quote myself, as I got an answer from the same JDelgoulet...

Synthsense wrote:
Nice project, demos, panel and everything else, indeed

Do someone know how many octaves or notes can be played from a CV keyboard?

Cheers! Guinness ftw!



I PMed JDelgoulet giving more info about my question. I just wanted to know if I could fire the Minimoog with a 5, 6 or 7 octaves midi master keyboard and a good midi to CV interface and get a response on all notes This is what Jules answered:


"HI

Sure you can. I have tested mine with a Yarns midi/cv gate interface and also a simple one based on Alain Coupel work (http://www.acxsynth.com/midi2cv/midi2cvfr.htm) using my Juno 106 as a master keyboard.
Now, as with some other vintage synths, tracking is not 'perfect' over the whole range. I would recommend a 5 octaves keyboard but 6 or 7 is fine too.
One thing : be sure you midi/cv gate interface does not output more than 10v on the CV line (but as far as I know such a midi/cv gate interface - that output more than 10v - does not exist w00t ).

Hope it helps ..."


Of course it helped, nice answer, Thanks! thumbs up
martich
please put me on wait list for a set pcb + panel
thanks a lot for the amazing job you're doing
dsf
I'm veeery impatient for this .... w00t
Cloud10
Please add me to the list for a pcb and panel set as well. Great work!
kinrat
If there is a list for this please add me as well. Otherwise I will keep an eye on the website
crustibooga
Well... the backlog of builds is truly monumental and my pockets well and truly deep. Just pledged for the crowminius, but now feel the need for this. So if you have a list please add me for a pcbs/panel set. Cheers!
elterotero
If there will be a next run, count me in.
GiliRose
... Never mind the second run,
I'm still in for the 1st :-)
Fingers crossed, looks like you have a formidable waiting list!!!
applause applause applause
muted
I'm not sure that there is an actual list... Can someone confirm this?

If there is I hope I'm on it thumbs up
tommy.york
muted wrote:
I'm not sure that there is an actual list... Can someone confirm this?

If there is I hope I'm on it thumbs up


I messaged Julien a couple weeks ago. He said:

"Thanks for the kind words ! You're right there is no list. As soon as I'm ready to ship, I'll post in the head of the thread all the info (website link etc)."

So, no list yet. But soon!
Check Mate
Any news or updates...it's been quite a while?
Sorry for the impatience but I'm really excited about this!
jdelgoulet
Still fighting to get those panels done. I ran a 'small batch' but this time there was an issue with some lettering due to a bad screen ... I know the screen printer did a new screen with a higher resolution and ran another small batch. I should pick them up wednesday and see how it went. In the mean time I will send the bad panels to have the paint remove to start a new batch. A real pain ... A least I think I found the right guy for the job 'cos everybody (friends and manufacturers) who saw the panels were 'quite amazed' by the quality. For his defence, I shouldn't have done so small lettering and lines but .. hey .. I wanted it that way !

Stay tuned, (I know you are !). And would like to say that I appreciate your patience guys !
Check Mate
Thanks for the update and I'm sorry to hear about all the hassle! I hope everything gets sorted and works out the way you want it to!
I'm holding my breath.
nickster
Sorry to hear you ran into another issue regarding the panels but glad to know you are very nearly there now. Best of luck. thumbs up
TheSlowGrowth
I have to say the build guide is remarkable! Honestly, that is a great tool!
doepferiano
one kit for me, thanks
(maybe next run...)
cupwise
build guide?
muted
cupwise wrote:
build guide?
http://guinguin-instruments.github.io/MME/
cupwise
thanks. wow, yeah incredible resource, above and beyond!
Check Mate
Sorry to bother you but are there any news here on the panels and so on? I hope the project is not cancelled?
satori
I'm in for a panel and pcb!
CeeJay
Hey Julien, can you give us an update? Hope you are alright!
GryphonP3
Definitely in for a full set when they are available SlayerBadger! then I might have to trade my model D in for a shfive.
cml
Would it be possible to make a SMD version of the circuit ?

i mean:
-its very time consuming to solder all the components.
-this can be done cheaply by a pick and place machine
-manualy solder only connectors and matched transistors
-the board can be smaller and cheaper
-less error prone.
cane creek
cml wrote:
Would it be possible to make a SMD version of the circuit ?

i mean:
-its very time consuming to solder all the components.
-this can be done cheaply by a pick and place machine
-manualy solder only connectors and matched transistors
-the board can be smaller and cheaper
-less error prone.


Your maybe missing the point that this is a DIY forum and this is a DIY synth.
People want to build this by soldering each and every component, that's where the satisfaction comes once complete.
cml
cane creek wrote:
cml wrote:
Would it be possible to make a SMD version of the circuit ?

i mean:
-its very time consuming to solder all the components.
-this can be done cheaply by a pick and place machine
-manualy solder only connectors and matched transistors
-the board can be smaller and cheaper
-less error prone.


Your maybe missing the point that this is a DIY forum and this is a DIY synth.
People want to build this by soldering each and every component, that's where the satisfaction comes once complete.


Ohh you are right... i didnt think about that....
althought it would make the project a lot simpler , cheaper... and there are still many transistors and capacitors to solder... smile

In the other hand , using smd components may change the sound ..
It is a lot of work to make the cad files and route the PCB and debug the boards.

I must say , im impresed by such great work of Julien. CHAPEAU !!!!
i didnt know making something like this was posible...

Count me in for a PCB smile
jdelgoulet
Hey Guys !

The latest panels screen printing session was a total 'failed'. Again. help
I decided to send the panel one more time to have the paint and screen printing removed, sanded them again and they are now waiting at the painter door (who is in vacation like many other companies here in France ...).

In the mean time, I found the reason for the bad screenprinting : no registration between the screen and the panels so there is no chance that the screen printer can have everything aligned perfectly !

So, as everything is closed in France, we (my wife and I) decided to have a try at screen printing the panels ourself. For now I've burned the screen and made a 'panel holder' to align the panel and the screen (see pictures). The ink arrived today, so next week we'll start our first prints. (Hope I can make panel as nice as Magpie w00t)



sammy123
jdelgoulet wrote:
Hey Guys !

we (my wife and I) decided to have a try at screen printing the panels ourself.


Hold on to her!! Lotsa Love
TheSlowGrowth
Quote:
Hope I can make panel as nice as Magpie

The alignment in magpie panels is horrible. Please, please do better!
tobb
I hope those that don't need any will be forced to buy the panel

Is it possible just to buy already a pcb set from you right now?
calaveras
my interest is piqued.
GiliRose
... And another BUMP for good luck and a prosperous happy life!

That panel looks great to ME!

Rockin' Banana! nanners It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners Rockin' Banana!
jdelgoulet
tobb wrote:
I hope those that don't need any will be forced to buy the panel

Of course not.
tobb wrote:
Is it possible just to buy already a pcb set from you right now?

Well ... no. Most people who raised their hands from the beginning wanted PCB and panels and have been faithful until now. I don't want them to be served the last ! So, everybody will be served at the same 'level' wether they want PCBs or PCBS and panel.
jdelgoulet
GiliRose wrote:
... And another BUMP for good luck and a prosperous happy life!

That panel looks great to ME!

Rockin' Banana! nanners It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners Rockin' Banana!


It sure does ! It is one of the 24 first panels serie the screen printer did. That's why, later, I asked him to make 200 of them ...
My guess : it has been really lucky the first time !!!
MrChcroute
Salut Julien,

Just wanted to be sure that you got my mail asking for a PCB+panel (of course of it's still possible)

Merci d'avance et bon courage pour les panels !
Outshown
How much has this beast cost you so far?
satori
Is there some sort of wait list for people to guarantee a set, or is it first come first served?
Only ask because I've been refreshing this thread multiple times a day i'm that keen!
smile
strange tales
satori wrote:
Is there some sort of wait list for people to guarantee a set, or is it first come first served?
Only ask because I've been refreshing this thread multiple times a day i'm that keen!
smile


From the previous page:

"Thanks for the kind words ! You're right there is no list. As soon as I'm ready to ship, I'll post in the head of the thread all the info (website link etc)."
satori
Cool, i'll just keep refreshing daily smile
glennfin
Got my eye on this fer sure! applause
delayed
What silk screen stuff did you use? Screen thread size, ink type, emulsion?


jdelgoulet wrote:
Hey Guys !

The latest panels screen printing session was a total 'failed'. Again. help
I decided to send the panel one more time to have the paint and screen printing removed, sanded them again and they are now waiting at the painter door (who is in vacation like many other companies here in France ...).

In the mean time, I found the reason for the bad screenprinting : no registration between the screen and the panels so there is no chance that the screen printer can have everything aligned perfectly !

So, as everything is closed in France, we (my wife and I) decided to have a try at screen printing the panels ourself. For now I've burned the screen and made a 'panel holder' to align the panel and the screen (see pictures). The ink arrived today, so next week we'll start our first prints. (Hope I can make panel as nice as Magpie w00t)



cml
incredible !!!! I for sure want a pcb & panel !! they look lovely !!!

was this made using gravograph (gravotech) LS100 laser engraver?
segerfalk
cml wrote:
incredible !!!! I for sure want a pcb & panel !! they look lovely !!!

was this made using gravograph (gravotech) LS100 laser engraver?


No, it's powder coating and silkscreen print.
jdelgoulet
First screen printing tests ! Love it ! w00t
Everything looks good so far. Still testing ink-hardener-retarder ratio to prevent ink from drying to fast in the screen.
But from now, checkup in 3 days for the scotch and nail test !

At least, I can move my setup to the screen printer workshop 'cos alignement is just perfect Rockin' Banana! nanners ;-)




CeeJay
Looking really good! thumbs up
I can't wait to build this nice project!
mOBiTh
It's peanut butter jelly time! screaming goo yo w00t
sicpaul
Guinness ftw! applause Rockin' Banana!
wired
Can't wait to start soldering this one hihi
ambrohski
I'd be keen on all of these PCB/panels, when they hit the shelves- fo sho! we're not worthy
audiohawk
Looking great! Almost there applause
richesandwonders
finally made an account here to say i'd like to be on the list for pcbs and a panel, whenever that list is made. stoked!
Rob Lo
Would you kindly put me on the (very) long list!

Panels + PCBs
mOBiTh
i like the scfreen printed brushed metal look actually cool
GiliRose
So THAT is what you were doing on your Vacation - WOW!!!
I hope things will be ready soon -
I couldn't have hoped for a better "Winter Project"!
cupwise
I'd like to be on the list! panel+pcb
southphillysynths
I've been away from this thread a while but it looks absolutely wonderful!! Keep up the great work look forward to completion!
rbv2
woah hyper woah hyper
Jesse8n
Really looking forward to building this sucker, looks and sounds incredible. Thank you so much for all the work put into this.
satori
I have been dreaming about this build.
So I have never had to match transistors or resistors, anyone out there got any good links to info on how I achieve this?

Thanks!!
MindKind
satori wrote:
I have been dreaming about this build.
So I have never had to match transistors or resistors, anyone out there got any good links to info on how I achieve this?

Thanks!!


For 1% resistors just match them using a multimeter (it's dead simple) or if you have tons of them to match you could just use .1% resistors instead.
Regarding transistors some cheapo MM got npn/pnp tester on them, not really precise but they do the job or just use one of those chinese MK168.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uisjXK2Vo-I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InJhgwmj2So
Altitude909
Once again, people are confusing what a "Matched transistor" is, it is NOT matched for gain (Hfe), it is matched barrier voltage (Vbe) to within 1-2 mV .

Transistor testers in standard meters read Hfe, NOT Vbe
mOBiTh
I can vouch for the cheap multimeter route for transistors.

I've used a few modern transistor testers but for some reason they've always given pretty inconsistent readings (per transistor) compared to my 25 year old Maplin meter!

It appears to be accurate to about 0.25-0.5% and that has been ample for all my oscillator projects. cool
Kipling
I can vouch for the Peak DCA75. It gives you every parameter under the sun and identifies the type of device connected (not the part number of course) and the pin-out.
Altitude909
Kipling wrote:
I can vouch for the Peak DCA75. It gives you every parameter under the sun and identifies the type of device connected (not the part number of course) and the pin-out.


>
Components supported and stand-alone measurements include:

Transistors (BJTs including Darlingtons and "digital" transistors), Silicon and Germanium types. Measures gain, VBE , collector leakage and collector saturation voltage. Unijunction transistors (UJTs) are not currently supported.

That's what it needs to measure, down to 0.001V accurately
MindKind
Altitude909 wrote:
Once again, people are confusing what a "Matched transistor" is, it is NOT matched for gain (Hfe), it is matched barrier voltage (Vbe) to within 1-2 mV .

Transistor testers in standard meters read Hfe, NOT Vbe


No confusion here, that's why i mention the MK168 because i think it doesn't only read the current gain but also the base emitter voltage like the peak atlas DCA75pro/DCA55 mention above. wink
CeeJay
Most of these component testers are very good for testing and identifying components. But for matching transistors they are not suitable. Even if they can measure VBE, the accuracy and resolution is not good enough.
The data for the Peak DCA75 for example: +-1% +-6mA
To match transistors we want them to differ not more than 2mA.
Jesse8n
As someone who does a lot of kits and am very comfortable with though hole and getting better with SMD, matching is something I have never come across before. I learned to solder over 15 years ago and am very comfortable doing it but I have just never learned about how and why these things I am soldering actually work. I take kits for granted but don't see this build being much of a challenge besides my not understanding matching yet.

I have a multi meter and will match as best I can with that, unless there is another reasonable method someone can recommend.

And since i don't understand (I did some searching but haven't found much useful info yet) can someone explain the differences one would experience if parts were not matched in something like this?
MindKind
Some interesting reads on the subject/

http://www.dragonflyalley.com/images/TransistorMatching/ianFritz-trans mat0011_144.pdf

http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth_new/TRANSISTORMATCHER/T RANSISTORMATCHER.html

http://hem.bredband.net/bersyn/transmatch.html
CeeJay
Here are some useful links regarding matching VBE.

The Ray Wilson method (most difficult):
http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth_new/TRANSISTORMATCHER/T RANSISTORMATCHER.html
The Ian Fritz method (much easier):
http://www.dragonflyalley.com/images/TransistorMatching/ianFritz-trans mat0011_144.pdf
Multimeter method (very simple):
http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/simple_transistor_matching.html

Each methods obviously have there pros and cons.

Edit: lol, didn't saw the post above me, when I posted....
Jesse8n
Awesome! Thanks MindKind and CeeJay!
MindKind
Jesse8n wrote:
Awesome! Thanks MindKind and CeeJay!


You're welcome spinning
satori
Thanks for all the info!!
oneoff
Ive built the battery version matcher of Ian fritz on a breadboard- from this thread:
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=81990&start=all&post days=0&postorder=asc

Looks like it's working great. I'm able to match transistor pairs down to 0.05mV (!).
(50 micro volts) With a fluke 8840.
I think that it's many times more then what's needed in Vbe matching for synths.
It goes Pretty fast and easy after you super match the 100k resistors and calibrate the trimmer right.
It's very important to keep the whole circuit as isolated as can be from temp changes. I also put a foam 'cup' on top of the pair while tested.



oneoff
This is the circuit (by Dave jones):

Check Mate
Dear jdelgoulet,

I thought I ask kindly how the project is moving along?
Do you have an estimate about when the PCBs/Panel will be available?

Cheers
nickster
Also very curious about how this is going. I've already sourced the materials from the BOM and am eager to start this. Jamming on the original mini at work is getting a bit tiresome hihi hoping all is going well though and that we are nearly there now.
johnnyquest
Amen..........What he said.....................I think the natives are getting restless.
satori
Yep, would love an update also. Limited funds mean it's this or the ttsh run that's coming up. Will put cash aside for this if it's happening soon smile
Kipling
It looks like jdelgoulet has not visited the forum since his last post a couple of months ago so is probably not seeing any of the subsequent posts, so a polite PM or email to him may see a hopefully positive response.
humpink
So any updates on this? I would also buy a panel + PCB set. This project looks absolutely fantastic, keep up the good work!
davide3737
This thread is almost two years old. It's hard to avoid a certain sinking feeling.
Starspawn
Nah, its just like your backlog only its someone elses wink
And theres been enough progress to be positive.
Sometimes theres just some months where you dont get much done.
oneoff
Yet, it will be nice to hear any news... or even just to know a rough date.
I guess that I'm like many others who've ordered most of the parts already
And waiting for few months now.
I really hope this project is still on.
batchas
jdelgoulet
"Sometimes theres just some months where you dont get much done" : it's bit like that except that I do things but it does not go forward ....

Hi everyone,
sorry for being silent and thanks to James, for reminding me that I do have people to take care of.
Last time I posted we were about to start screenprinting panels ourself. So we did. At least, we tried and the results were 'mixed'. The difficulty is that we don't have any margin for errors : either the panel is good or it goes to the trash. Many went to the trash... I've been in touch with other screen printers, screen printing ink makers and basically the answer is : have a semi-auto press or use UV ink : in both case it implies investing in an expensive material.
So, while trying to find second hand machines, I went to my panel manufacturer and check with him if it was possible to laser cut anodized aluminum as anodized panel resists to solvent - like acetone - meaning that if a print fails, I can "clean" the panel and start over. Also panels could be laser etch instead of screen printed.

But hey, you start knowing me ... I wanted him to cut "black" anodized aluminum. (Laser cutting colored anodized aluminum is know for leaving some mark around cuts). He kindly did some tests (you can see a photo in the thread) and the result were encouraging so he/we are currently evaluating two possibilities :
- Either order pre-anodized black aluminum panels and laser cuts them. He is checking with suppliers as the cut quality depends on the aluminum type.
- Cut panel in rough aluminum and have them black anodized. (this is the process I would like to have as panels side and back will be black too).

In the mean time, I talked with my PCB manufacturer in France to see if they can do mat black PCBs with gold finish ... - you see me coming don't you ? -
The answer is yes. She sent me some pictures and all I can say is that it looks very 'MakeNoizy' hihi . So, I created a small tool to generate eagle board from svg and sent the gerber to China. I should receive the prototype panels in a week.
If it looks good, sturdy enough and you think that it might be a good alternative, then I'll go for it.


batchas
I think you'll get a better result from your pcb maker in france than from china (I know it's a question of costs). Cause the handling for pcb panel in china is not special. I mean they consider it as a pcb (which it is actually), even if you tell them to take care of it cause you gonna use it as a panel. I tell you this because the surface is quite big. Out of 10 pcb/panel much smaller than the one you are doing I get 1 without any trace. 3 which are "ok" and 6 that I can put in the baskin.
I see in your posts that you're a perfectionist too, so I have to share my experience. Now all manufacturers are not the same in china and I hope you'll get the best result possible.
Je croise les doigts pour toi.
The pcb maker in france speaks your language, is nearer, might hear you etc etc.
batchas
jdelgoulet wrote:
"Sometimes theres just some months where you dont get much done" : it's bit like that except that I do things but it does not go forward ....

Julien, it does go forward thumbs up

You have high expectations and you did not choose the easiest way (standard alu for instance). You want it to be perfect and perfection is hard to get.

Compromises become inevitable in projects, when the lack of time or money arises, but you're doing your best.
jdelgoulet
@batchas : I only order prototypes from the china supplier to validate the gerbers. The definitive PCB are made by a French Company Rockin' Banana!
batchas
jdelgoulet wrote:
@batchas : I only order prototypes from the china supplier to validate the gerbers. The definitive PCB are made by a French Company Rockin' Banana!

Oh nice! Clever move.
I was wondering why you contacted the supplier in France and then ordered the proto in China smile
Hey: ALL THE BEST thumbs up
GiliRose
Hi jdelgoulet -
May I suggest a middle ground solution?

While looking for a reasonable & cost-effective solution for producing
5U/MU panels for my modular, I came across the following company:

http://horizonsisg.com/products/

They have a product called DuraBlack, which is basically a very high
durability aluminum-based medium that is laser engraved.
This sheet has top-strength 3M backing adhesive and can be mounted on
bare aluminum panels, and you will never be able to take them apart ...

If you could post PDF files of your front panel design, it would allow the impatient among us to venture forward with such solutions :-)
You might even want to try it yourself!
(Silk Screening... yuch, been there, too much hassle...its now 2016...)
Bamboombaps
Exciting !!

Btw I'm very interested in the tool to convert Svgs to gerbers if you are willing to share Guinness ftw!
masterofstuff124
Yah svg to gerber tool would be amaing!
TheSlowGrowth
Its called svg2mod for kicad. There's one for eagle as well.
mOBiTh
Out of interest, how much would the panel cost from Schaeffer in bulk?? hihi
Karma
Have you seen the mate black panel style for O_c/temps utile, i think it can be a better direction for a cheap good look panel
batchas
Karma wrote:
Have you seen the mate black panel style for O_c/temps utile, i think it can be a better direction for a cheap good look panel

Julien is taking this way he said, pcb made in France.

I checked this thread and the black/gold O_c, panels were made at PCBCart. I heard they were ok and a bit more expensive, but I did not know the quality could be so good. And feedback of buyers was more than positive.
Looks kind of mate on the photos, which is also great IMO.
jdelgoulet
@GiliRose : I've seen this stuff. Does not impress me compared to anodized aluminum. There is also stuff like metalphoto, gedakop, gedalu, duraseal, durapor etc. In the end, it feels like none of them allow what screenprinting can achieve. But I do agree that sometimes it's like "yuch" ;-)

Karma wrote:
Have you seen the mate black panel style for O_c/temps utile, i think it can be a better direction for a cheap good look panel


Yes, that's the spirit. As I said : "ala MakeNoize". At first I wasn't very keen for that sort of panel. That was before I saw a MN Shared System ...


But, in the mean time we keep on practicing screen printing .... and we are getting better at it !

pascualfuentes
wow those panels are coming out great! getting me super excited nanners
GiliRose
Rockin' Banana! nanners Rockin' Banana! nanners Rockin' Banana!
nanners Rockin' Banana! nanners Rockin' Banana! nanners
audiohawk
Karma wrote:
Have you seen the mate black panel style for O_c/temps utile, i think it can be a better direction for a cheap good look panel


I can vouch for the mate black panel style for O_c/temps utile too.
They look awesome... Perfectionist quality! cool
dsf
Nice to see this!! keep us updated hyper
GryphonP3
Looking EXCELLENT we're not worthy we're not worthy

Can't wait to give you my $
Karma
batchas wrote:
Karma wrote:
Have you seen the mate black panel style for O_c/temps utile, i think it can be a better direction for a cheap good look panel

Julien is taking this way he said, pcb made in France.

I checked this thread and the black/gold O_c, panels were made at PCBCart. I heard they were ok and a bit more expensive, but I did not know the quality could be so good. And feedback of buyers was more than positive.
Looks kind of mate on the photos, which is also great IMO.


I read it too quickly on my phone and don't see all the pics Dead Banana

Nice panel, can look nice next my living vco Never maintain cash savings again , for sure i want one kit, any idea of an aproximativ price fot a panel + pcb?
Kipling
I believe it has been said that a PCB and panel set will be in the the order of €180.
jdelgoulet
The PCB panels prototypes arrived this morning.
They do look like they are cheaply made in China - which is good as this is what I ordered w00t
Al I can say is that 2mm thickness is enough : hard to bend and when pots and switches are in place, everything is very sturdy.
All the drilling is good only the screen printing is not as 'thin' as I expected : either the font path is too 'bold' when generated in eagle or they have a crappy process ...
I will send out a new 'sampling board' to test the text/screenprinting thickness.
Monday I'll talk with the french company that does the PCB to get quote/delays etc.
Here are some pictures where you can see that the font is too 'fat' : number '4', the 'quotes' for the octave switches etc.


Check Mate
Great! looks good enough for my taste! applause
Keep it up!
batchas
jdelgoulet wrote:
Here are some pictures where you can see that the font is too 'fat' : number '4', the 'quotes' for the octave switches etc.

The pcb panels I got from China, in despite of the fact like I mentionned earlier that they had a few scratches on the surface, had a perfect silkscreened layer, very thin lines where needed.
Should I check the thickness the lines were set to (I made them in Diptrace, but same in Eagle)? You can PM me Julien (in french) if you need any info + pictures etc.
Escapegoat
Keep up the good work. smile

I use chassis makers and printers all the time, and it takes time to 'break one in' and overcome the inevitable teething troubles. If you are at all OCD, you can end up rejecting about 50% of the panels that the printer thinks are fine.
dsf
That looks amazing! quite impatient for this! SlayerBadger!
jdelgoulet
Quick update to let you know that gerbers for the front panel have been sent to the french manufacturer. It will take about 3 weeks before I receive those final prototypes. If everything is fine then I'll order a big batch.
Nearly there ...
CeeJay
Thank you for the update! What will you do with the metal panels?
masterofstuff124
nanners

What are the expensive parts of this build and / or the rare bits. Best I start sourcing those now as they often take the longest to arrive.
davide3737
With the passage of time (cough, cough), I've lost interest in this project and I'd like to sell the parts I've bought. This includes everything on the BOM plus various extras, including multiple transistors for matching and Moog-style knobs from Thonk. Total cost was in excess of 250 GBP. Please pm me if you're interested. Note UK/EU only and no requests for individual parts, please! Thanks.

David
Bamboombaps
i hope this will be available for a while. the TTSH has drained my account for about 6 months screaming goo yo
cane creek
Bamboombaps wrote:
i hope this will be available for a while. the TTSH has drained my account for about 6 months screaming goo yo



I so wanted to build a TTSH, but I just have this feeling Korg will release one for a fraction of the price without the effort.
Ceres
cane creek wrote:
Bamboombaps wrote:
i hope this will be available for a while. the TTSH has drained my account for about 6 months screaming goo yo



I so wanted to build a TTSH, but I just have this feeling Korg will release one for a fraction of the price without the effort.
fwiw a Korg rep did an AMA on reddit and said they didn't plan to do a 2600 because of all the options out there such as the TTSH...
cane creek
Ceres wrote:
cane creek wrote:
Bamboombaps wrote:
i hope this will be available for a while. the TTSH has drained my account for about 6 months screaming goo yo



I so wanted to build a TTSH, but I just have this feeling Korg will release one for a fraction of the price without the effort.
fwiw a Korg rep did an AMA on reddit and said they didn't plan to do a 2600 because of all the options out there such as the TTSH...


I think I'd take that a reps view with a pinch of salt,
All the other options, TTSH and what.............??????... A real one.
Now I've seen Brexit & Trump I know they'll be a korg2600
Christian S
I have to applaud your work ethic and tenacity. It's a shame things don't always work out when a third party is involved.
Going through all pages of this thread it becomes obvious you are capable of much more then just clones. I hope there are future projects on your plate, may I suggest one: 8 Music Thing Radio Music like modules in one single unit but 8 different microSD cards, individual outputs, individual trigger buttons, individual cutoff and global cutoff, and all this triggered by a tiptop audio circadian rhythm like trigger all under the same roof. This would be in my opinion a great addition to any setup for any kind of music genre.

Its great to dream on muffwiggler.

I'm looking forward to be able to order my first MME from your guinguin instruments website.

Christian
roman_f
great project
how can we preorder this?
TheSlowGrowth
You can't. A shop will be opened once its ready
maximee
New to Muff Wiggler and late to the party, but this looks very nice, looking forward to see more. Will keep an eye on this. This is fun!
Ceres
cane creek wrote:
Ceres wrote:
cane creek wrote:
Bamboombaps wrote:
i hope this will be available for a while. the TTSH has drained my account for about 6 months screaming goo yo



I so wanted to build a TTSH, but I just have this feeling Korg will release one for a fraction of the price without the effort.
fwiw a Korg rep did an AMA on reddit and said they didn't plan to do a 2600 because of all the options out there such as the TTSH...


I think I'd take that a reps view with a pinch of salt,
All the other options, TTSH and what.............??????... A real one.
Now I've seen Brexit & Trump I know they'll be a korg2600


TTSH builds and sales have been very active. There are no shortage of TTSHs out there and here we go for another round. There is the CMS 2607. There are 2600 inspired euro modules. I'd love a Karp 2600. I'm just not holding my breath.
djsoulmachine
Definitely looking forward to this amazing project!!!
commodorejohn
maximee wrote:
New to Muff Wiggler and late to the party, but this looks very nice, looking forward to see more. Will keep an eye on this. This is fun!

Ditto that.
fuzzbass
Ceres wrote:
cane creek wrote:
Ceres wrote:
cane creek wrote:
Bamboombaps wrote:
i hope this will be available for a while. the TTSH has drained my account for about 6 months screaming goo yo



I so wanted to build a TTSH, but I just have this feeling Korg will release one for a fraction of the price without the effort.
fwiw a Korg rep did an AMA on reddit and said they didn't plan to do a 2600 because of all the options out there such as the TTSH...


I think I'd take that a reps view with a pinch of salt,
All the other options, TTSH and what.............??????... A real one.
Now I've seen Brexit & Trump I know they'll be a korg2600


TTSH builds and sales have been very active. There are no shortage of TTSHs out there and here we go for another round. There is the CMS 2607. There are 2600 inspired euro modules. I'd love a Karp 2600. I'm just not holding my breath.


I don't expect any 2600ey thing from Korg. Caveat: all my predictions from last six months wrong.
masterofstuff124
^2600 from korg confirmed. lol
hippasus
What? do you have a link?
masterofstuff124
naw just joking about the person above me's post.

Sorry for the confusion
Christian S
Any news? Does anybody know when to expect the MME?
discop
Looks awesome!
aquatarkus
Anyone else in the US try to order from Radiospare for the three trimmers?

They took payment of a couple Euros and I haven't received anything yet. I've used Google Translate to try and send messages with no response.

Couldn't find them at Mouser or Digikey.
oneoff
What's the trimmers value you're looking for?
aquatarkus
25 Ohm 25 turn
http://www.rs-particuliers.com/WebCatalog/trimmer_cermet_Bourns_25O_± 10_0_5W_25_tours___Traversant_serie_3296W_Ajustement_par_le_dessus-785 9733.aspx

2.5k 25 turn
http://www.rs-particuliers.com/WebCatalog/trimmer_cermet_Bourns_2_5kO_ ±10_0_5W_25_tours___Traversant_serie_3296W_Ajustement_par_le_dessus-7 859742.aspx
Kipling
I've never bought from RS except for work as you need a business account with a Delivery Point Code, or at least you did the last time I used them some years ago now.

In the States, Newark has the Bourns 3296W range. I think I got mine from their UK arm, Farnell, but that was a year ago now.
oneoff
I know it's not the same but it might work

http://www.jameco.com/z/63X251-3386X-1-251-Spectrol-Vishay-Corporation -25-Ohm-3-8-Square-Cermet-Potentiometer-25-Turn-1-2-Watt_2180658.html
aquatarkus
Thanks for that thumbs up

I see the trimmer is on the side instead of the top, I guess we'll have to wait for Julien to see if it will work.
sYmphoman
Hi,
I'm in for the trip to minimoogland as well. hihi
Hope to b abble to order soon!
Christian S
Waiting and waiting and waiting...
Checking every single day in hope to get news
Christian S
How many of you started resourcing components for the MME and how is it going?
Kipling
Christian S wrote:
How many of you started resourcing components for the MME and how is it going?


Got all mine a year ago now! And a Moog 60HP case to mount it in when they became available. Hopefully not much longer to wait now.
Kipling
Duplicate post deleted
Christian S
Kipling wrote:
Christian S wrote:
How many of you started resourcing components for the MME and how is it going?


Got all mine a year ago now! And a Moog 60HP case to mount it in when they became available. Hopefully not much longer to wait now.


Was it straight forward or are there components harder to find? Did you just use the BOM from github?
muted
Christian S wrote:
Kipling wrote:
Christian S wrote:
How many of you started resourcing components for the MME and how is it going?


Got all mine a year ago now! And a Moog 60HP case to mount it in when they became available. Hopefully not much longer to wait now.


Was it straight forward or are there components harder to find? Did you just use the BOM from github?
I have bought all components as well - It was pretty straight forward, only thing was a couple of rare components that were expensive (there is quite a bit of talk about that in the thread).
satori
Just about to buy parts for this, wondering if there is any update on the project release date?
Christian S
I'm tempted to buy the parts too but im rather patient to see the boards first.
sYmphoman
Hi,
Any news Julien ? Seems like we haven't heard from you for a while.
Maybe just a quick update to keep us posted on your progress?
Thanks
satori
The suspense is killing me. I've saved and spent the money for this project several times over!!
Update would be great smile
Kipling
Looks like Julien hasn't visited Muffs since mid November so he won't be getting notifications of any new postings. I hope all is well with him and this project.

Maybe someone who knows him personally can drop him a PM or email to find out the current situation and let us all know.
Christian S
Kipling wrote:
Looks like Julien hasn't visited Muffs since mid November so he won't be getting notifications of any new postings. I hope all is well with him and this project.

Maybe someone who knows him personally can drop him a PM or email to find out the current situation and let us all know.


Same here, would be nice to know if its still in the making
jdelgoulet
Hi Everyone !


Would like to share with you the status concerning the project (well .. the panels very frustrating ).


I received the mat-black panels in January (made by the french company which does the main MME PCBs).
The result were not really what I expected - again.
You can see some pictures at the bottom. While they do look nice 'like that' when you've got them in hand you clearly see that some ink is missing on some letters,
some panel are 'scratched' and, on some of them, complete word are missing ...
Clearly the bigger the panel, the bigger you have chance to receive one with a problem.

Fortunately, the person in charge of the quality contacted me and agreed to run a new batch with different parameters :
the panel will be 'semi-glossy' and the white ink will be 'sprayed' instead of screen printed. I should receive a sample in the next few days. Will post a photo.

In the mean time, people who follow me on insta, saw that I invested in some machines to screen print panels myself. It still quite hard but I think I've found the right way to do it ! :
I first print the white lines, name and brand and ensure they look nice. Then , I print the rest of the panel with a good amount of 'retarder' : this ensure that when dry to touch, I'm still able, the day after, to remove any unwanted artifacts. Then I let the panel to dry completely.
As I'm feeling more confident about the process, I order some new metal panels and should have them ready to be screenprinted in about 3 weeks.

Again thanks for being so patient ! (The beginning of the year has been quite challenging as the BU I work for as been sold to another company so ... you know... )




Christian S
Hi Julien,
Would you not consider selling the pcb's for those who dont want the front panels? I personaly want to do my own panel in my own style.
Thanks for the update anyway, I was coming back every day to check.
Looking forward to see the shop open
Cheers
Christian
tobb
Yes please,just offer the pcb otherwise it will be another two years waiting..
medbot
Schaeffer does full color high quality UV printing and milling at very reasonable prices, especially in bulk. Why keep trying to reinvent the wheel?

http://www.schaeffer-ag.de/en/graphics/printing/
Kipling
I know how important it is to get panels just right. Mine for another project on here have come in for a lot of criticism this week after two years of producing them.
tobb
yes but the panel don't have to be more expensive then the pcb's..

I am pretty sure 50% that want to built this project don't want a panel like this but one that looks like the panel of a minimoog.
batchas
I hope you'll be finished before Moog decides to make a Eurorack Minimoog for a few hundreds bucks. Thinking about this since I see the struggle with the panels and the time passing by.
I see that quality is your priority, alors chapeau pour ça. Respect we're not worthy
satori
I would buy one of the panels that didn't make the cut and a pcb right now. Really not fussed if there is a mark or a scratch or a missing letter, just keen to build this.
pokeyasd
satori wrote:
I would buy one of the panels that didn't make the cut and a pcb right now. Really not fussed if there is a mark or a scratch or a missing letter, just keen to build this.

Same.
pix
Same.
oneoff
Same here
masterofstuff124
@jdelgout

that panel is looking nice!

looking forward to this one.

nanners
Christian S
pokeyasd wrote:
satori wrote:
I would buy one of the panels that didn't make the cut and a pcb right now. Really not fussed if there is a mark or a scratch or a missing letter, just keen to build this.

Same.


Same
Christian S
...we could buy the front panels afterwards, after the pcb's are populated and tested.
I'm still not buying components until i have the pcb's and I'm sure now I want 2.
sYmphoman
Same here, specialy since I already bought the components
commodorejohn
batchas wrote:
I hope you'll be finished before Moog decides to make a Eurorack Minimoog for a few hundreds bucks. Thinking about this since I see the struggle with the panels and the time passing by.
I see that quality is your priority, alors chapeau pour ça. Respect we're not worthy

I wouldn't count on Moog making anything more feature-complete than the Mother-32 for a few hundred bucks lol
latigid on
May I suggest asking Adrian Hallik about a run of panels or even desktop cases? He's a great guy and does awesome work (in particular the "Ambika" metal cases with beautiful silkscreen). Estonia based, so still EU but cheap labour hihi
Sparky
I admire your tenacity on the panels! I could probably settle for a "less than perfect" panel also.
KSS
Maybe he is changing the Filter and Envelope sections to match the minimoog? The vertically arranged MME is going to be tough for those used to a mini with horizontal Filter and envelope pots.

It was asked early in this thread once and never answered??
Kipling
I think the PCBs were made ages ago so probably not.
Christian S
No more changes please, we just want those pcbs
Check Mate
I'd also opt for buying the PCBs now and populate and test them and buy the panel later.

I also wouldn't mind buying a panel witch has some minor flaws.
technotron
I'd love a pcb only option, and then be able to get the panel later or make my own panel.
bobrock
Hi everyone!
I read all the posts. This thread started two years ago. There's something wrong. Why you don't share the PCB drawings and let us doing the rest? Two years are really too much!
Sorry for spontaneity... waah
diablojoy
Quote:
Why you don't share the PCB drawings and let us doing the rest?

To be blunt why should he ?
Re read the first post jdelgoulet already put a massive amount of time and effort into this before announcing he had something and a lot more since. these things take time . It's his baby So just have some patience.

Oh and welcome to Muffs ! lol
PWM
bobrock wrote:
Hi everyone!
I read all the posts. This thread started two years ago. There's something wrong. Why you don't share the PCB drawings and let us doing the rest? Two years are really too much!
Sorry for spontaneity... waah


For all we know you're waiting one day.. As Diablo said, try to be patient.
Christian S
PWM wrote:
bobrock wrote:
Hi everyone!
I read all the posts. This thread started two years ago. There's something wrong. Why you don't share the PCB drawings and let us doing the rest? Two years are really too much!
Sorry for spontaneity... waah


For all we know you're waiting one day.. As Diablo said, try to be patient.


thumbs up
bobrock
I'm 60! No much time more! hihi
Christian S
bobrock wrote:
I'm 60! No much time more! hihi


Hold on, you will make it Mr. Green
bobrock
lol thumbs up
br1qbat
Can't wait to get my hands on a pcb/panel set. Guinness ftw!
oneoff
Quote:

For all we know you're waiting one day.. As Diablo said, try to be patient.


Well, the problem IMO is that some people are waiting for this project for more then a year now. collecting parts, matching transistors... others just got to know it. Unfortunately, I guess that we're all have The Same odds to put our hands on a set, since there will be a certain quantities produced and no waiting list. Just sayin... meh
bobrock
Seriously, i think that some people, like me, could do the work starting from PCB layout or even from schematics. Just sharing a better version of the first photo in the first page would be enough...
But, if it seems offensive, i'll wait all the necessary time. Just saying me too... cool
nickster
I would love for this project to be available here and now, as would many of us who have shown an interest in this project. But my thoughts turn to Julien as no one more than he would like to have the pcbs and panels ready and out in the open. I'm very grateful for all the exhaustive work he has put into this project so far. As we approach the final stages let's take a moment to reflect how lucky we are that someone has been dedicating so much of their own time and resources to make a Minimoog in Eurorack an item we can build and enjoy.
mig27
Absolument.
Merci Julien - prends ton temps.
rogueevo
If there's any kind of list...just reaffirming my interested for a set since April 2015... lol lol

Also wanted to say it still looks like an awesome, high-quality project. thumbs up
xenosapien
ooooooh... *subscribed* grin

was there a rough estimate of the "total cost to build" hidden somewhere in the previous 40+ pages of this thread? wink
pokeyasd
xenosapien wrote:
ooooooh... *subscribed* grin

was there a rough estimate of the "total cost to build" hidden somewhere in the previous 40+ pages of this thread? wink

Type "euros" in the search bar and open the post by OP.
xenosapien
pokeyasd wrote:
Type "euros" in the search bar and open the post by OP.


thanks, I keep forgetting about that search thingie! smile
muted
Ill just leave this here...

https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/5xklo8/behringer_buildi ng_a_budget_minimoog_clone/
fuzzbass
muted wrote:
Ill just leave this here...

https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/5xklo8/behringer_buildi ng_a_budget_minimoog_clone/


Reddit is the place for speculation. I would be surprised if a established company in the audio industry came out with a straight out clone of a system that is currently in production by another well known company. Roland is not making Juno 60s.

Also, yawn. Minimodules, if it ever comes to be, is different - patchable.

My speculation: Behringer's next synth should be something all their own.
muted
fuzzbass wrote:
muted wrote:
Ill just leave this here...

https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/5xklo8/behringer_buildi ng_a_budget_minimoog_clone/


Reddit is the place for speculation. I would be surprised if a established company in the audio industry came out with a straight out clone of a system that is currently in production by another well known company. Roland is not making Juno 60s.

Also, yawn. Minimodules, if it ever comes to be, is different - patchable.

My speculation: Behringer's next synth should be something all their own.
Thoughts on this then? https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/5yeyje/first_render_of_ behringer_model_d/
DJBRUTAL
Straight from the horse's mouth... https://www.gearslutz.com/board/12492144-post706.html
masterofstuff124
Oooo $400 minimoog D.

want.

hopefully tons of patch points internally like some of the newer korg stuff.

ultimately I want what is considered by most to be THE SYNTH! and the extra features are just icing. I simply want a minimoog. behringers newest offering is gonna get me there far more easily.

Had jdelgouts pcbs been available years ago i would have built them. but now I have a living VCO so this would just be redundant in my rack.

if behringer offered just the PCB that would be neat. if not Ill purchase Jdelgouts PCBs many years from now to build a fullsize minimoog clone!

asis behringer is a company thats been great in my studio so im amped for their new model D clone! hopefully the build quality isnt shit like behringer crap usually is.
Christian S
fuzzbass wrote:
muted wrote:
Ill just leave this here...

https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/5xklo8/behringer_buildi ng_a_budget_minimoog_clone/


Reddit is the place for speculation. I would be surprised if a established company in the audio industry came out with a straight out clone of a system that is currently in production by another well known company. Roland is not making Juno 60s.

Also, yawn. Minimodules, if it ever comes to be, is different - patchable.

My speculation: Behringer's next synth should be something all their own.


Doesn't look like speculation anymore...
Still waiting for MME.
Hopefully we can get it before the Mooringer comes out
batchas
commodorejohn wrote:
batchas wrote:
I hope you'll be finished before Moog decides to make a Eurorack Minimoog for a few hundreds bucks. Thinking about this since I see the struggle with the panels and the time passing by.
I see that quality is your priority, alors chapeau pour ça. Respect we're not worthy

I wouldn't count on Moog making anything more feature-complete than the Mother-32 for a few hundred bucks lol

Well. Moog or another company...
Maybe you see now what I was thinking about.
latigid on
If the Behringer gets made (would be a while off anyway) it will pose an interesting question. What's the main driving force: moar stuffz for as cheap as possible, or the joy of building things with your own hands and taking part in the DIY community?
bemerritt
latigid on wrote:
If the Behringer gets made (would be a while off anyway) it will pose an interesting question. What's the main driving force: moar stuffz for as cheap as possible, or the joy of building things with your own hands and taking part in the DIY community?


I feel like if you are just in it for the cost savings, you will get way too frustrated when things go sideways and have to troubleshoot your way into a working module.
johnnyquest
Very nice looking panels, front & back.
diablojoy
I always like to build rather then buy.
so I will build jdelgouts eventually rather then buy the behringer even though this will no doubt cost more and will take far longer in all probability.
whoop_john
latigid on wrote:
If the Behringer gets made (would be a while off anyway)


latigid on
whoop_john wrote:
latigid on wrote:
If the Behringer gets made (would be a while off anyway)




I see a CAD model, so 1-2 years at the least? (If it goes ahead.)
latigid on
Hmmm, schematic already done... they might be further along than I thought.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/12494130-post1081.html
TheSlowGrowth
Schematic looks good. I like that they didn't cut corners on the midi through. It's there and it's a real, no-software midi through.

Kind of surprising how open Behringer is about their products. Not that there is a lot to hide in a model D remake - schematics are available anyway. But still. I can't help but think this is part of their new marketing strategy for gaining ground in the boutique/expensive/brand-identity-driven synth business.
substage
Definitely interested. nanners
julienvoirin
the problem isn't the schematic which is known since a long time but the selected components ! (paired transistor ladder for example)
substage
When will the kits be available, any news?
TheSlowGrowth
julienvoirin wrote:
the problem isn't the schematic which is known since a long time but the selected components ! (paired transistor ladder for example)


They are using the same transistors in the ladder filter as moog does on their werkstatt synth.

There seems to be this weird myth that the magic old components make everything sound right - when its actually 99.9% about the actual circuit and the tolerances. Yes, there is a difference in sound between an old synth and a new one. But that is mostly due to different circuits, e.g. new synths will use more opamps where old synths used discrete transistors because that was cheaper at the time.

And don't tell me you heard a difference between an old vintage synth and its modern remake. The old synth has seen many years of use and degradation in its capacitors. It sounds nothing like it did when it was originally made. And if you compare two old Junos, you will find they sound very different from each other as well.

I am confident that the Behringer "D" will sound pretty close to the original.
julienvoirin
Quote:
if you compare two old Junos,
they effectively sounds a bit different depending of the revision as they don't have the same trannies.
I've worked a lot on the x0xb0x circuit and some components are critical in the sound. e.g SK30A-O can't be substituted with another sub model (Y or GR) as the waveform (its in the VCO) has a very small difference.

Regarding the behringer, i am sure they will do a correct job for modern components smile
All the difficulty in cloning is to find the perfect component for its default which gives that particular sound (the hardest to achieve)
dsf
I'd be very sad if this doesn't come to fruition, that'd be strange though, after so much work...
muted
dsf wrote:
I'd be very sad if this doesn't come to fruition, that'd be strange though, after so much work...
I'm still interested as well, but what is the status?
boops
Salut Julien !!!!



julienvoirin wrote:
Quote:
if you compare two old Junos,
they effectively sounds a bit different depending of the revision as they don't have the same trannies.
I've worked a lot on the x0xb0x circuit and some components are critical in the sound. e.g SK30A-O can't be substituted with another sub model (Y or GR) as the waveform (its in the VCO) has a very small difference.

Regarding the behringer, i am sure they will do a correct job for modern components smile
All the difficulty in cloning is to find the perfect component for its default which gives that particular sound (the hardest to achieve)
cupwise
hm. seems really weird for this to go tits up because of issues with a panel.
blinosynth
i would prefere to buy from this guy rather then buy from berhinger even if they are cheap
this project look awsome! i am interested !
abelovesfun
I was hoping for a PCB/kit/non-panel option so I could use my NOS Estradin Panels...
Jannik B.
Any news on the project? hyper

And are there any plans for a pcb/panel+parts-kit?
bemerritt
I know the panel is important, but I would be interested in a kit without a panel. And then proceed to try and get a grayscale one made.
Kipling
I don't think Julien visits Muffs very often so is probably not seeing these posts. Anyone a personal friend of his who could find out on our behalf?

We don't want to push him as it's obvious he has put a great deal of effort into this and must be seriously out of pocket. We can only hope he finds a solution that he is happy enough with to release.

Having had some negative feedback on the panels I've supplied for my projects I can fully appreciate his position on this.
abelovesfun
I completely agree that he has full authority to not release a sub-par product. I had to go back and forth with my panel supplier three times to ensure that the blacks on a recent panel were consistently black enough.
jdelgoulet
Hi Guys,

Quick summary :
- I will receive new PCB black panels (ala makenoize) on 11th of April (new semi-matt black with spray painted white 'text').
- I sent some new panels to the painter this morning so I can screen print at the end of the week - will send some more beginning next week.
(I'm forced to make smaller batchs to ensure proper painting ...).
- Waiting for some packing stuff and working with a company to do the shipping for me.


Again guys, thanks for your support, even more when I see news coming from germany ...
fuzzbass
jdelgoulet wrote:
Hi Guys,

Quick summary :
- I will receive new PCB black panels (ala makenoize) on 11th of April (new semi-matt black with spray painted white 'text').
- I sent some new panels to the painter this morning so I can screen print at the end of the week - will send some more beginning next week.
(I'm forced to make smaller batchs to ensure proper painting ...).
- Waiting for some packing stuff and working with a company to do the shipping for me.


Again guys, thanks for your support, even more when I see news coming from germany ...


heh... the mouth on Synth-Bro just makes me all the more resolved to buy your project when it's ready. applause
Check Mate
It's good to know that the project is still going and I rather wait and build my own mini-clone than buying anything from Behringer!
Keep it up thumbs up
tobb
jdelgoulet wrote:


Again guys, thanks for your support, even more when I see news coming from germany ...


people want through hole ,not crap smt stuff you can't repair anymore after the warranty is gone thumbs up
Jannik B.
Niiiice!
Any plans on pcb-kits including parts? smile
needspeed
There will be plenty of demand as evidenced throughout this thread.

You have developed an amazing Model D for Eurorack, regardless of what anybody else does.

I can hardly wait until you are ready to offer it to the community.........Steve
PWM
jdelgoulet, I'm still in!
w00t
nickster
Ha ha! Fantastic news Julien, am still patiently waiting for this project to be ready for sale. Wishing you continued luck with things. Thanks once again. It's peanut butter jelly time!
oneoff
Hey! Any updates about the new panels?
Christian S
Nothing happening here? Any news?
Cheers
thatoneguydavid
Im really sorry if i have some how missed this. but is there a place to put an order in for the boards? i found the part lists, but not the boards.

aslo, are there posted schematics?

again i apologize if i am posting in the wrong area, or if im asking a question that has already been answered.
Kipling
It's not been released yet so you haven't missed anything.
LED-man
he should work yet for Behringer wink
Jbutron
Hi, congratulations for this amazing project.

Will be possible, please, put me in waiting list for trhee PCBs and Front panels kits?

Regards and thanks again
Check Mate
jdelgoulet, are there any news / updates on your project?
Is it still beeing done or have you quit working on it?
It'd be really nice if you could give a small outlook, it'd be much appreciated.
I for my part did not go ahead and just buy the AJH modules because I still hope that this project will happen very soon.
sgenevay
Do you think there is any way to have at least the pcbs available ?? i have all the component for 1 year already and that would be nice to start working on it....
oneoff
+1 for buying just the pcb's if possible.
I have all the parts and the matched transistors
Already and it will be great to start working on this
Project while waiting for the panel...
sYmphoman
+1 for the PCBs. Or even just the schematics.
I also have all the parts waiting to be put together.
yan6
I hope im wrong but with the lack of updates Im getting the feeling this project has been ceased and desist Dead Banana
CeeJay
It's ready when it's ready. I don't mind the waiting time, but a more regularly update would be nice!
I also have all parts ready to build this wonderful project and really looking forward to it.
Luap
The ironic thing is, since this project was announced, Moog started making their own Model D again. Behringer are about to jump on the Model D bandwagon any moment now. And even Roland/Studio Electronics are about to try their hand at it too! (albeit in somewhat updated form) And the latter 2 will be pretty inexpensive..

I like DIY as much as you guys, but...
sgenevay
that's why i don't understand why Julien is so against start selling PCBs as he already has a stock of it....
sgenevay
worst is i found the original PCB copy on this address.... with the full component list...

http://www.crazy-patroche.com/2015/10/clonage-du-minimoog.html

And i was seriously thinking about to put it down my CNC router to make it.
The only thing is that i wanted to support Julien project with all the work he did... but if he doesn't show up quickly.... :-((((((((

JULIEEENNNNN !! come BAAAACCCKK
fuzzbass
Luap wrote:
The ironic thing is, since this project was announced, Moog started making their own Model D again. Behringer are about to jump on the Model D bandwagon any moment now. And even Roland/Studio Electronics are about to try their hand at it too! (albeit in somewhat updated form) And the latter 2 will be pretty inexpensive..

I like DIY as much as you guys, but...

Not to mention the new Roland Boutique SE collaboration... It's not modular, but the field is getting crowded with mini moog instruments.

I'm in Asheville today and plan to go down to the Moog showroom. I expect I won't mention any of this to those folks.
Kevin Mitchell
I've just joined this forum so I can stay up to date with this thread. Now I can see the time stamps lol I am beyond interested in this project. I got into DIY stuff after seeing some model D clones a few years back. I've sent jdelgoulet an email through another forum I frequent and I'd like to apologize since I now understand the project isn't ready.

Fingers crossed for some good news soon! I would absolutely love to get my hands on the board/panel kit.
-KM
batchas
Luap wrote:
And the latter 2 will be pretty inexpensive..

I like DIY as much as you guys, but...

$299 for the Behringer...

I thought a few months back that Moog or another company would do that. I did not expect it to be so cheap, but well, it was very predictable.
sgenevay
Yes 299$ on the preorder.... really cheap indeed... but after... this is berhinger.... we all know how it's done. so at the end i prefer to do it myself cause i know what i put inside and can make my own design, so....
bobrock
Hi guys, i'm very sorry for the delay of our friend Julien. I hope there's anything wrong. I apologize for my hurry, but i need really a Minimoog clone. So, from the last time i was here, i did this.
bobrock
My stuff...
sYmphoman
Impressive!
Where did you get the schematics?
What are the dimensions of your pcb?
bobrock
Thanks! cool
the schematic is a revisiting of the original schematic, only some components are changed for more finding easiness.
the pcb is 320x145mm, about 12,6x5,6in.
OrganFixer
Edit: removed because I wasn't sure it was appropriate

But my comment wasn't as bad as the edit comment makes it look. I just mentioned that there are alternatives available.
bobrock
yes, sorry, I did not want to go off topic! only sharing my experience! seriously, i just don't get it
Isaiah
Perhaps we can expect an update soon...
https://instagram.com/p/BWIn2m1h7kt/
tobb
Isaiah wrote:
Perhaps we can expect an update soon...
https://instagram.com/p/BWIn2m1h7kt/


WOW screaming goo yo
Jarno
bobrock wrote:
My stuff...


Nice work!

Impressive metalwork.

Regarding the original initiative by mr delgoulet, everything on his github is old, and his youtube videos as well, so I am not sure anything will be happening anytime soon.
muted
Julien, you talked about news regarding the panels back in april, what is the current status of the project? Any news?
jaidee
If you check his username, you will see that Julien has not visited this site since early April, i.e. over 3 months ago, a bit bizarre given that he generated a lot of interest here by regular postings over a sustained period of time and posted of a BOM which caused a number of people including me, possibly foolishly, to pre-order parts.

The amount of effort Julien has put into this project, including the development of an online building resource, is phenomenal, but he did seem to become bogged down by the panel printing issues (surely not insurmountable, given that several other projects developed by Wigglers have involved similarly complex panels (e.g. Kipling's amazing 1601 clone).

A previous hiatus was broken when I sent him a private email pointing out that speculation was mounting about whether the project had been abandoned. I'll send him another email and see what happens.
Kipling
Thanks for the kudos jaidee.

I did contact Julien very early on when he was looking for somewhere to make his panels and suggested the facility I used, but he was keen to have everything made in France. I can see his point.

I do hope that he does eventually get to a point where he is happy enough to release it. He must have spent a great deal of time and money getting as far as he has and it would not make sense to throw away the PCBs and panels in whatever state they are in.

Or perhaps he would let someone else do the panels for him. They metalwork must be re-usable even if they've been painted or powder coated previously. I gather they don't have to be screen-printed either, they can be spray painted like an ink-jet printer.
julian
I doubt the panels are the pivotal issue.

But, if they were, i can understand that, if youve gone through a whole load of bother to get an accurate reproduction of a vintage unit, finishing it up at the last moment with a poor (or even just inaccurate) finish would be massively frustrating.

...but, yeah, who really knows why the project is now silent - could be any number of reasons.
jdelgoulet
Hello everyone,

I'm so grateful to see comments like the one from Kipling/Julian 'cos this is the exact situation I'm facing. Feels good to hear from people that do understand the situation which, I can tell you is very frustrating. There has not been one day, since I started doing the metal work for this project, where my mind tried to find solutions to reach the level of quality I wanted while trying to keep the job done in my home town.
Back in April, I had 100 panels done. They came back painted like s*** and I started a 7 weeks fight with the painter. He ended up doing them again ... nearly as bad as his first try. Mad.

As some of you have guessed looking at my Instagram, I was about to open the store this week to sell the faulty boards, the good boards and the few panels that passed my quality test. Unfortunately , while doing the packaging, I realized that all the panels have a screen printing default in some way. So a new plan has to be found. Here it is :

I've been in contact with a company that does panels and just that (in France), all ‘in house’ (Cut/Anodized/Print). I received some samples and will go, for the next batch, with laser cut , black anodized, screen printing panels. But for now I need to have my 'faulty' panels to go out.
I will put them on the store as a bundle PCB+Panel for 145 euros instead of the initial 185 euros and I will put some photos of the various imperfection on the product page. After this batch is sold, I won’t make anymore with ’home made screen printing’. Far too complicated on powder coated panels ( basically you cannot make any mistake ..).

I tell you all that 'cos i don't want you to feel frustrated if you buy a set now and see, in September, a top quality version you would have prefer ...
So, if you want THE panel, you will have to wait a bit more. Otherwise, for all the other cases the shop will open this week.
Kipling
Thanks for the update Julien.

We eagerly await the release of the boards and panels. I for one will be happy with a panel that is OK but maybe not perfect.
It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time!
yan6
Sorry if this was posted elsewhere, but what is the store address where we can expect the panel and pcb sets to go up for sale Rockin' Banana!
jdelgoulet
I did not post it earlier. It will be : https://guinguin-instruments.ecwid.com
CeeJay
Thank you for the update! I just bookmarked your link.
I am hugely looking forward to build this nice project!
sgenevay
cooooool smile))

you do you have any idea of prices for pcbs and faulty pcbs ?

best news ever smile))
Kipling
sgenevay wrote:
cooooool smile))

you do you have any idea of prices for pcbs and faulty pcbs ?

best news ever smile))


Mentioned in his post; 145 €
sgenevay
Kipling wrote:
sgenevay wrote:
cooooool smile))

you do you have any idea of prices for pcbs and faulty pcbs ?

best news ever smile))


Mentioned in his post; 145 €


he mentioned only the price of the set (pcb+panel).. not pcbs only....
nickster
Julien, you just made my day. Great to hear that the store will soon be open. I will be buying the pcbs and slightly faulty panel. Thanks once again for all the hard work and love you have put into this project. nanners
Kipling
sgenevay wrote:
Kipling wrote:
sgenevay wrote:
cooooool smile))

you do you have any idea of prices for pcbs and faulty pcbs ?

best news ever smile))


Mentioned in his post; 145 €


he mentioned only the price of the set (pcb+panel).. not pcbs only....

Beg your pardon. I assumed you meant faulty panels. I remember now he had some early PCBs where the rotary switch pads were incorrect but could be used with switches on flying leads.
sgenevay
I wanted to make a 19" version... So as he has effectively those old pcb to destock.... I don't care if I have to put wires on potentiometers.... And if that can help Julien to sell faulty pcb stock.... :-) :-)
Eric the Red
So happy this is coming soon - book marked the site, and I am ready to go!
Kevin Mitchell
hyper Great news! I'm on standby for the finished product. September you say? Hope those PCBs are available to us folks in the U.S.

EDIT; I went ahead and sourced everything because I can't control my impulses. I only have the mouser order left (most costly) - going to try the toggles from BLMS since that's the real wallet biter in the mouser cart.

Some info for shopping in the U.S.;
25 & 2.5k ohm trimpots were available at newark.
BF245B is discontinued so I had to find some on ebay
The same synth knobs are available on smallbear also in other colors.
-Also got the 2N4402 at SB.
LS3954 is illusive but obtainable. I went with a site called nacsemi. Couldn't figure out if TO-71 or 78 was the right one so I went with 71 to save a few bucks.

I'm wondering if there's a substitute for the MPS8097 transistors? Maybe someone could suggest a quantity to buy for the matching process (needing 10 matched pairs).

Cheers!
-KM
jdelgoulet
@Kevin : for LS3954 you choose the right package. For the MPS8097, as far as I remember , the ones I bought at Mouser where not that bad in term of matching - that might be luck though ... but for 10 match pairs, I would bought something like 35/40.
jdelgoulet
[... updated to have photos from flickr ..]

Before the opening, I wanted to show you how the mis-printed panels, how they look like so you can have a good sleep on it and see if that will make it for you.
#1 : First one is not obvious, but lines are not 'straight' and they are all like but it is more visible on "the middle ones"
#2 : The 'D' of 'Glide' is 'dirty', a dot in the top line, and the '6' of the VCA attack is missing some ink.
#3 : Dots on top and bottoms lines.
#4 : The 'D' of 'Glide' is 'dirty, dots on top lines.




latigid on
putain de Photobucket
jdelgoulet
@latigid : c'est clair ... I've just realized they f** up all the linked pictures in this thread angry angry
I will edit all the urls of the thread but for now just the one for the mis printed panels. Thanks Flickr.
CeeJay
The panels are looking good! At least good enough for me ;-) 40€ off for such small imperfections is a bargain.
Christian S
The bright side looks like this: faulty panels will be limted edition. That means, in 50 years time they will be priceless.
mush
Just open that store, Julien. smile
jdelgoulet
I have open the shop for France and Europe. It will be open to the rest of the world beginning next week :
https://guinguin-instruments.ecwid.com
mattfearsatan
Whoop whoop! Ordered immediately. So excited, I've been watching this project since it first reared it's head smilesmilesmilesmilesmile
tobb
jdelgoulet wrote:
I have open the shop


we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy
SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger!
thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up
mattfearsatan
Just putting my parts together - getting my LS3954s from Micross. Due to the £25 minimum spend, I thought I'd put in an order of three lots of the 3xLS3954 and people could PM me if they want the other two? Comes to £46.66 for all three sets including VAT and postage, so £15? Lemme know.
Sparky
jdelgoulet wrote:
I have open the shop for France and Europe. It will be open to the rest of the world beginning next week :
https://guinguin-instruments.ecwid.com


So excited, went to order...couldn’t as I’m in USA. I hope you don’t sell out before the store opens for outside of Europe!

Cheers,
..sparky
nickster
And down the rabbit hole we go. SlayerBadger! pcbs and faceplate now ordered.
sgenevay
Arrrgggghh hope you will have enough faulty pcb to hold on 2 weeks cause I've just gone for holidays... And if u send it now I won't be there when it will arrive and the post office will send it back to you after a while.... Unless I pay it now and you hold the packet for 2 weeks....
fluffymuff
Ordered! Can't wait to build this, it's going to be well worth the wait i'm sure... thank you Julien for all your hard work getting this project off the ground... Santé! w00t
muted
mgronroos wrote:


Work in progress..
It still needs a few corrections and some aligning.
After this I will make the CV-strip with all ins and outs.

//Michael
Any status on this part of the project?
Kipling
It's on its way!

Your order #47 has been shipped by Colissimo Europe.
Estimated delivery time is: 8 days.
muted
Ordered as well, this is super awesome
nickster
muted wrote:
mgronroos wrote:


Work in progress..
It still needs a few corrections and some aligning.
After this I will make the CV-strip with all ins and outs.

//Michael
Any status on this part of the project?


If I am not mistaken this idea was posted by someone else and not officially a part of Julien's offer. The faceplate also indicates the need for an overdrive lamp, power supply, extra lfo and offers no cv inputs or outputs. So this would require some additional diy modules and modifications. Undoubtedly the aesthetic of this faceplate is very appealing and should someone be offering one I would be potentially interested.
MrRoper
mattfearsatan wrote:
Just putting my parts together - getting my LS3954s from Micross. Due to the £25 minimum spend, I thought I'd put in an order of three lots of the 3xLS3954 and people could PM me if they want the other two? Comes to £46.66 for all three sets including VAT and postage, so £15? Lemme know.


PM'd!
nickster
Kipling wrote:
It's on its way!

Your order #47 has been shipped by Colissimo Europe.
Estimated delivery time is: 8 days.


You beat me to it. w00t I'm order #54
Navymud
Hi everyone cool

I'm completely new to this forum (and to the world of synth in general), but I actually built this clone. I met Julien a few times (he's a nice guy, very talented!), and since we live in the same town, I had the opportunity to buy a batch of PCB and a panel. It took me several days to build it, but thanks to the amazing build guide, I managed to make it works perfectly, first try!

I don't know as much as you guys in synthesizers, but I would say it sounds AMAZING.

I made a video where I use this synth to play All Star by Smash Mouth. Remember I'm still a beginner confused

If you like it, don't hesitate to subscribe to my channel, I plan to make more videos with this clone ! nanners

needspeed
Navymud, the synth sounds great (true wiggled presets Mr. Green ) and love the recording, it made me smile inside and out......Thanks.....Steve
Navymud
Quote:
Navymud, the synth sounds great (true wiggled presets Mr. Green ) and love the recording, it made me smile inside and out......Thanks.....Steve


Thank you very much needspeed, I appreciate it! hyper
Swyndger
So I am order #66.

How many misprinted panels do you have?
Onehundred?
Tomorrow they are sold out smile
salih03
oh man
hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper
my friend with his creditcard is here in 20min
hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper hyper
muted
I too have two extra sets of the LS3954s, for anyone interested.
muted
Navymud wrote:
Hi everyone cool

I'm completely new to this forum (and to the world of synth in general), but I actually built this clone. I met Julien a few times (he's a nice guy, very talented!), and since we live in the same town, I had the opportunity to buy a batch of PCB and a panel. It took me several days to build it, but thanks to the amazing build guide, I managed to make it works perfectly, first try!

I don't know as much as you guys in synthesizers, but I would say it sounds AMAZING.

I made a video where I use this synth to play All Star by Smash Mouth. Remember I'm still a beginner confused

If you like it, don't hesitate to subscribe to my channel, I plan to make more videos with this clone ! nanners

A'm I missing something or are you playing duophoniclally in the beginning?
Navymud
Quote:
A'm I missing something or are you playing duophoniclally in the beginning?


Yes hihi
That's one big asset of this clone, it has three CV inputs for the three oscillators (CV1, CV2, CV3). If you have a MIDI to CV interface which can generate three different CV with one GATE, then you can even play a chord of three notes Mr. Green
jdelgoulet
I guess you are not ;-) He is using the MME CV2 input to control the VCO-2 while the main CV in controls VCO-1 and 3 ;-) with yarns in 2P mode.
(look at the cable under the 3rd VCO octave selection)

The MME has one input for each oscillator so if you have a midi-cv interface that handles poly mode then you can play chords.
Yarns has a great, great mode/voice combination : if you choose 4P mode and U2 voice allocation then, if you play one note, you get the same CV on each output. If you play 2 notes, you get one CV value in an output then the other on the three others etc etc.
This means, you can play 'at the same time', the MME as mono or 2 voices or 3 voices paraphonic system but there is a drawback as yarns expect 4 voices (you need to keep a dead note somewhere)

Now, if someone has some time and experience programming a Yarns, it would be great to create a 3P mode (3 voice instead of four) that allows voice allocation. That way we could play the MME as a paraphonic system :
- 1 note -> the three VCOs play the same note
- 2 notes -> VCO1 plays one note, VCO2 and 3 play the other one
- 3 notes -> VCO1 plays one note, VCO2 another and VCO3 the latest
(and the fourth CV output could be use for LFO / velocity / aftertouch).
Swyndger
muted wrote:
I too have two extra sets of the LS3954s, for anyone interested.


I would be interested, but if you have to send them over the atlantic ocean, shipping could get too expensive. I am from germany. Where are you from?
nickster
Lets talk about matching transistors. I will be using Ian Fritz's circuit to match these as I have the pcb that Matthias Harmann had made at OSH Park. But some questions first. How important is it to match these? In other words if I go with ones on a tape strip purchased from Mouser will they already be close enough? The Micross ones LS3954 come in a loose bag so I guess these will need matching.
Lastly I see for the 2N3904 a matched pair of 1 is needed. This is confusing as I'm not sure what to match against. Any ideas?
johnnyquest
I have the same questions also. How close are the three LS3954's to be matched are we talking about?

Is the single 2N3904 to be matched to another component or is the matching note just redundant?

Thanks In Advance...........
LED-man
The ls3954 is a factory matched dual tranny.
There's no need for matching of this type by yourself.
jdelgoulet
There is no need to match the LS3954. When you look at the build guide https://guinguin-instruments.github.io/MME/AnalogBoard-sg.html#step-11 4, the quantity is 3 without any other sort of indications.
However if you look at https://guinguin-instruments.github.io/MME/AnalogBoard-sg.html#step-11 5 you can see "Matched set of 2" which means that those 2 transistors have to be matched.

Now, for the matched pair of one ... It's more clear on the build guide : on https://guinguin-instruments.github.io/MME/AnalogBoard-sg.html#step-13 8 you can see that it has to be matched with Q72 which is a 2N3906. And if you look at https://guinguin-instruments.github.io/MME/AnalogBoard-sg.html#step-13 6, it is written that it has to be matched with Q85 which is a 2N3904.


To resume :
- LS3954 don't need to be matched (but this component is a matched pair 'inside')
- Q85 (2N3904) has to be matched with Q72 (2N3906).
LED-man
Same as the Arp1601 clone - it's not possible to match a NPN with a PNP, the vbe is very different.
From my experience works this without matching.
This was discussed in the arp1601 build thread before.
CeeJay
Here we go!



The quality of the panel and PCBs is amazing! I am so glad that I ordered one from the first batch!

Thank you Julien!
Jannik B.
Finally, will order one(or two?) today! It's peanut butter jelly time!


Only having trouble finding the LS3954 inside of Europe (Netherlands would be ideal)...
Any suggestions? Or somebody who has 3 or 6 spare ones to sell?
Check Mate
I received my PCBs/Panel today and they look really good quality wise. The Panel looks flawless to me. Shipping only took 2 days!
Thanks a lot Julien!! It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners Rockin' Banana!
jdelgoulet
Jannik B.
I updated the link in the BOM (html and .ods) but here is the link (in the UK) : https://shop.micross.com/shop-default.aspx?v=2

I also updated the link for the tempco : akaneohm tempco
Jannik B.
Thanks jdelgoulet!

Btw: Are there plans for a parts-pack?

EDIT: just went through almost the whole thread and saw that no part-kits are in the planning...but the links in the part-list seems to be a nice compromise. smile
finnurbjarna
Order #78.

Really looking forward to getting stuck into this!
muted
How do i best sodder in the LM2991 units with a soddering iron?
nickster
muted wrote:
How do i best sodder in the LM2991 units with a soddering iron?


Check out this you tube video on instructions on how to do this. The trick is if you are going to drag the soldering tip over the legs is to make sure you do not apply too much pressure. Just cover your iron tip in solder and gently drag it over the legs as in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uiroWBkdFY
muted
nickster wrote:
muted wrote:
How do i best sodder in the LM2991 units with a soddering iron?


Check out this you tube video on instructions on how to do this. The trick is if you are going to drag the soldering tip over the legs is to make sure you do not apply too much pressure. Just cover your iron tip in solder and gently drag it over the legs as in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uiroWBkdFY
I should have been more precise: the large backside of the component, heatsink I suppose... how do I make sure that its large surface area is soldered to the board? It's hard to make the solder go under it... I ended up applying solder to the large pad, and then heat up the heatsink part for quite some time until it melted the solder on the pad and merged, but I'm kinda scared that I toasted the parts by doing this. Also, it's hard to have a feel for whether I applied to much/little solder there and wether it actually has made good contact
LED-man
Keep attention on the 4x Lm1963 and the 4x Lm1992, they are very close together.
Few pin holes are very close there too (few are connected to ground - that's ok) other holes should be a problem if the regulator is too close there.
Please check the position before soldering.

muted
LED-man wrote:
Keep attention on the 4x Lm1963 and the 4x Lm1992, they are very close together.
Few pin holes are very close there too (few are connected to ground - that's ok) other holes should be a problem if the regulator is too close there.
Please check the position before soldering.

So have you not soldered this part of IC18 and IC20 and so on?

LED-man
I solder all parts later, that give me the chance to change things or bugfix it.
I learned from my last 10 years of SDIY wink
MrRoper
Is anyone aware what the error on the pcb's not for eurorack mounting are. I bought a set of those as I want to build a little stand alone thing. Gonna be doing flying wires etc but is there a guide as to what connects where?
kinrat
Just got my boards and front panel.
Can't see any imperfections on the panel so I am very happy.
Once I've finished my Jasper case I can start the build, probably finish in 2019!
jdelgoulet
MrRoper
I will post that on github shortly but basically, the errors are on the rotary switches. They should be turn 60° but you cannot do that if you mount the switches on the PCB. With flying wires that is fine.
For now, you can solder/mount everything and keep those 6 rotary switches for later.
I will also post a dxf of the boards mounting holes so you can safely fix them inside a box.
Jesse8n
Any word on when the store will open up for shipping to the US?
Kevin Mitchell
I have some info on what I call *Poor Man's Matching* for this project I'd like to share. I may be wrong on these ideas cause I'm not so savvy in the world of electrical engineering. I'm quite amateur hihi

I've never built a synth (just noise makers and stompboxes) and I've been trying to wrap my head around matching resistors and transistors. I'm hoping someone can validate my findings. For each matching test the fixed variables would be constant.

Resistor matching; what percentage do these have to be matched at? I would use same labeled resistors as a voltage divider and measure the reference in between. This wouldn't be to calculate the exact value but would lead me to find which resistors match within maybe .5% and should be more useful than a 4 count ohmeter. So for 1k resistor matching I'd have a fixed resistor and regulated 9vDC power supply throughout the test. I've read the that a multimeter's ADC works best at millivolts so one could raise the fixed resistor to get VR within the appropriate range.

Example;
V+ * Test Resistor / (Test Resistor + Fixed Resistor) = VR measurement
9 * 1000 / (1000 + 1000) = 4.500v
or
9 * 1000 / (1000 + 100000) * 1000 = 89.10mv


Transistor matching; I'd use a simplified version of Ian Fritz's contribution which has been shared around. (Credit to Ian Fritz and Dave Jones)

1 fixed NPN - same as the ones you're trying to match up - DO NOT REPLACE, ONLY SWAP THE TEST TRANSISTOR
1 test NPN for matching - this is the one you'll measure, record and compare for matching pairs
2 100k resistors - they shouldn't have to match since we're using fixed variables and Mr. Fritz used matched resistors to calculate the Vbe which is not necessary for simple bulk matching

B and C pins to V+ (again a regulated 9v power supply)
E pins each get a 100k to ground.
.1uF cap between V+ and GND
Measure between the E pins in millivolts until it's stable and record the measurement. Those with the same measurement should be a Vbe match.

OK I drew up a schematic. So what I'm getting at is you just need to measure the voltage at the dots. You don't need to swap them around. For the resistor - measure and replace TR. For the transistor circuit you only need to replace Q2, wait for it to stabilize, record the voltage and move on to measure the next one in line. Again this is very stripped down and simple because we're trying to match parts - not measure it's actual value or Vbe.


I'd use the back side of sticky pads and tape to store the part with the measurement labeled and after I've done a handful or all of them I'd sort through them and select favorable matches.
finnurbjarna
Thank you for that. I still haven't taken the time to properly get my head around this - I suspect it might be one of those things that is more complicated to explain than it is to do.

I do have the Hermann/XNOR pcb of the Fritz circuit but one of the stumbling blocks has been a high resolution DMM, which seem to be pretty expensive. I did find the Tenma 72-2600 and wondered if there was any catch?
Sparky
Jesse8n wrote:
Any word on when the store will open up for shipping to the US?


It’s now open, I just ordered It's peanut butter jelly time!
Jesse8n
Sparky wrote:
Jesse8n wrote:
Any word on when the store will open up for shipping to the US?


It’s now open, I just ordered It's peanut butter jelly time!


Just got one too! Now to get back to ordering parts Dead Banana
jdelgoulet
Message for people living in Europe.

I did get a lot of request from people outside Europe to order kits. However, they did not get a chance to order last week since I was not able to ship to those countries.
As the shop has been open a whole week for Europe only, I made the shop open this week end for them only.
Monday, I will re-open for any countries.

Also have in mind that next batch will occur end of september. Thanks for your understanding.
delayed
As far as the US opening,
Are you not out of stock of the panel kits anyway?
oneoff
Yep, as it looks all the panel kits are gone anyway ):
muted
I still don't understand the resistor matching. What percentage should they be within of each other?
Kipling
For the matched resistors I just bought 0.1% tolerance ones, which should be good enough.
muted
Kipling wrote:
For the matched resistors I just bought 0.1% tolerance ones, which should be good enough.
Allrigt, thanks! Also, do any of you use tulip style sockets for all transistors, or would advise against?

https://www.rseonlineshop.co.za/collections/i-c-sockets/products/sil-t ulip-socket
muted
Also, all my trim resistors are mirrored compared to the PCB, does my trimmer orientation make a difference?
jdelgoulet
It does not. However they must be solder on the right side of the PCB (top/bottom) otherwise they won't be accessible for calibration.
muted
jdelgoulet wrote:
It does not. However they must be solder on the right side of the PCB (top/bottom) otherwise they won't be accessible for calibration.
thumbs up

Do you know of an alternative source for the knobs? musikding.de has 1 knob left it seems, leaving me 27 short. smile
Kevin Mitchell
muted wrote:
Do you know of an alternative source for the knobs? musikding.de has 1 knob left it seems, leaving me 27 short. smile

Kevin Mitchell wrote:
The same synth knobs are available on smallbear also in other colors.
-Also got the 2N4402 at SB.


Ahh the panel/pcb kits are gone, huh? I seen them up for sale with US shipping Saturday morning but I cant pull the trigger till tomorrow! Damnit. Okay I can wait for the kit with the new anodized panels. I have all of the parts for this project just need the PCBs and panel! In the meantime I've lucked out and got someone to sell me a Fatar 61 key TP/9s keybed. I'll be working up a CV controller with mod & pitch wheels and a 8 to 16 step sequencer.
jdelgoulet
There are available in various places :

resynthesis

Small Bear

Banzai
Check Mate
Hi Julien,

Is there a guide or some pictures of how to connect the boards together?
I'm especially puzzled with the small "jacks board".
Any help is much appreciated!
Thanks
jdelgoulet
- Jacks board is connected to the control board thru the micromatch connectors.
- Analog board goes onto the control board thru the pin headers.



CeeJay
Hi Julian! Thank you for the pictures and thank you for your great build guide. It is really helpful!
What are the Molex connectors on the analog board for?
jdelgoulet
The lonely one is for noise outputs. The others ... for MME VCOs individual output modules (with sine) so you can mix your MME VCOs with other filters then re-inject using the external out then ... modular cool w00t

Check Mate
Thanks Julien!! SlayerBadger!
Axum
Julien,

Thank you!

My board arrived today...I just can't wait

Kind Regards

Tim
muted
May I suggest a "Readme!" note in the soldering guide on the Control board: The angled male pins in JP19 comes after a series of straight pins, and it's not clear that they are the angled ones or which direction they should point.

I know it may be obvious to some, but I managed to solder in the straight pins first smile
jdelgoulet
muted
"The angled male pins in JP19 comes after a series of straight pins," : no,it comes before.
JP19 is an angle header so it is on step "3" which is before the higher ones that start on page "4". There is something I dont' get in your proposal. hmmm.....
muted
jdelgoulet wrote:
muted
"The angled male pins in JP19 comes after a series of straight pins," : no,it comes before.
JP19 is an angle header so it is on step "3" which is before the higher ones that start on page "4". There is something I dont' get in your proposal. hmmm.....
You are right, it's because I soldered the analogue board pins at the same time. Anyways it says in the guide "male pin header", and while that is technically correct, it's the same name for the non-angled ones. Perhaps denote it "Angled male pin header"? Anyways, just a suggestion for the tards like me.
sYmphoman
Hi,
I'm finished with the soldering!
Now I just have the flying wires to connect to the knobs and switches.
Any tip on how to do that without resulting in a spaghetti plate of 100+ wires? I'm considering using ribbon wire recycled from a computer and use connectors for easy plug/unplug.

At this state, is it possible to check my circuits or should I just go on to the end and start debugging from then? (By experience, it is unlikely that everything works strait from the start...)

Thanks for your help.
Fred
nickster
sYmphoman wrote:
Hi,
I'm finished with the soldering!
Now I just have the flying wires to connect to the knobs and switches.
Any tip on how to do that without resulting in a spaghetti plate of 100+ wires? I'm considering using ribbon wire recycled from a computer and use connectors for easy plug/unplug.

At this state, is it possible to check my circuits or should I just go on to the end and start debugging from then? (By experience, it is unlikely that everything works strait from the start...)

Thanks for your help.
Fred


Wow that was quick! Good for you. If memory serves me well (from the Crowminius thread) using ribbon cables was more trouble than just using regular wires. For the pots that need several wires you can just cable tie or braid the wires together and then solder these to their respective pots. Here is medbot's respective post.....
medbot wrote:
I didn't get as far as I wanted to this weekend, but here's where I'm at with the wiring so far. The big stuff (the rotary switches, most dpdt switches) are wired on the board side and I've just got the mixer pots left and that's all of those. Haven't even started on the jacks, power, MIDI, or ground bus yet yeesh. The rotary switches were a minor nightmare because the pad holes are kinda small and the wide ribbons of stranded wire I was using were fraying like crazy. It's Smallbear bonded wire or bust for me from now on.

mgronroos
Hi Julien,

I finished my two boards and will start connecting the switches tomorrow.
Do you have any documentation or info on how to connect them correctly on the non-euro boards?

Also, if I would like to tap the cv out from the VCF and VCA envelopes, how/where should I get these?

Best regards,

Michael
jdelgoulet
Hello everyone, hope soldering goes well w00t

I uploaded to a new github repo the wiring for the octave switches. This is the only default that the 'non-eurorack' boards have. Also, the file should also be available on the store for download.

MME non-eurorack octave switches pdf wiring

GitHub Documentation for non-eurorack boards.
jdelgoulet
@Michael : you mean on the Jack board ?
muted
Anyone have a link for some "heat sink compound" for the coupling of tempco resistors and the LM3046?
jimfowler
https://www.radioshack.com/products/caig-laboratories-heat-sink-silico ne-grease

This is the stuff I use as per Ray Wilson's recommendation (via his website).
muted
So have to match the 2n3904 and 2n3906 pair and I have a question: I'm using the Ian Fritz method / circuit, which has a PNP an an NPN mode, supposedly able to math either two PNP or NPN transistors.... Which mode do I choose when one is a PNP and the other is an NPN as is the case with the 2N3904/2N3906 pair?
mgronroos
jdelgoulet wrote:
@Michael : you mean on the Jack board ?


Hi Julien,

Thanks for the wiring diagram, it is very easy to follow.

Yes and no, I guess..
The VCF-ENV and VCA-ENV on the jacks board, are they inputs to be able to control the MME with exernal VCAs?

My question is really if I want to make externa outputs from the MME's internal VCF/VCA envelopes to control other gear.

The Voyager has envelope outputs which I find very useful, hence the question.

Thanks again for a great and rewarding build!

//Michael
muted
jimfowler wrote:
https://www.radioshack.com/products/caig-laboratories-heat-sink-silico ne-grease

This is the stuff I use as per Ray Wilson's recommendation (via his website).
Thanks!
jdelgoulet
Wiring for the Jacks board has been uploaded to Github : Jacks Board wiring
@Michael : as you can see, envelope outputs are already there. They are buffered. Guinness ftw!

Note that the angle male pin header (JP19), located on the Control Board, is used to tap the filter envelope pre or post "Amount potentiometer". This comes handy when you want , for example, assign the VCF envelope to a VCO when this one is sync to another one.
Rex Coil 7
Yet another excellent technical photo journal (this thread) RUINED and RAPED by Photobucket's new policies.

For those of you that are unaware, PB now charges $400 PER YEAR for folks to post pics in forums. I have had my own business' photographic presence on the internet completely gutted and evaporated by PB's new policies. Literally thousands of product photos spread out over a number of forums over the past eight years that give my products and efforts exposure have been ruined and all but killed because the all-important images of my stuff are held hostage to PB's $400 per year charges on pics hosted by them in forum threads just like this one.

I came in to this thread with great interest, wanting to see what it was all about. Nothing to see here but that fuddup Photobucket image that says the poster has to "turn on 3rd party hosting" (which means they want that $400 bucks out of him! ... or NO PICS FOR YOU!!!).

I know there's other photo hosting services, but that doesn't do folks like myself that have literally YEARS of personal investment in to using Photobucket's services over those years.

It may even be argued that what they're doing is extortion, or at the very least a breach of good faith contract.

At the very least, they're presenting all of the ethics of a shady politician or lawyer .... I hope the free market does Photofuckem in, and they end up owing any shareholders or investors money.

As a reminder, pics are hosted here, in house, for FREE .. here at Muffwigglers. Look in to using the photo hosting service here, it's the most safe alternative .. at least for now.

Photobucket sucks ass.

thumbs up

(BTW ... what I was able to see of this project looks really well done ... my best wishes and highest hopes for all those involved. Looks like a real winner ... hopefully that old adage of "good things are worth waiting on" holds up and this effort outruns all of the shitty plastic mass produced clones of the Mighty Minimoog that seem to be washing up on shore with all of the other unimaginative driftwood. Yea, that would be you Roland, Behringer, et al...)





EDIT: If you want to discuss this more or read more about it, there's a thread already started on this exact issue .....

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=185574&highlight=








thumbs up
muted
muted wrote:
So have to match the 2n3904 and 2n3906 pair and I have a question: I'm using the Ian Fritz method / circuit, which has a PNP an an NPN mode, supposedly able to math either two PNP or NPN transistors.... Which mode do I choose when one is a PNP and the other is an NPN as is the case with the 2N3904/2N3906 pair?
Quoted this to not get buried on the previous page... Julien?
jdelgoulet
Normally, all the 'photob***' pictures are back and are now store on Muff.
Rex Coil 7
jdelgoulet wrote:
Normally, all the 'photob***' pictures are back and are now store on Muff.
How did you go about doing that? Did you take all of the time to upload all of your pics to Muff's photo gallery one at a time? Or was there some simpler way to go about it?

Thanks ... I'd REALLY like to know ... applause
jdelgoulet
Rex Coil 7

I took each post where there was pictures, click edit and open the edited post in a new tab. Copy paste each url to download them from photoShittyBucket then upload onto Muff. Took some time but I think it's worth it.
Rex Coil 7
jdelgoulet wrote:
Rex Coil 7

I took each post where there was pictures, click edit and open the edited post in a new tab. Copy paste each url to download them from photoShittyBucket then upload onto Muff. Took some time but I think it's worth it.
Ok, that's what I thought. Cool ... and you're right, it would take some time, and in your case with this thread I'd say it was very worth it!

Thanks for doing that .... you've obviously busted big nuts at getting this project off the ground and it deserves all of the exposure you can give it!

Thanks again (I just might do the same thing with a thread I have going on .... there's "only" about 25 images I'd have to upload to replace the Suckbucket pics).

GOOD JOB!!!!! thumbs up
jdelgoulet
muted
hum ... looks like you cannot since with the method mentioned you compared two identical transistor at the same time. I have used the Moog method where you measure Vbe for each transistor.
The matching between the 2N3904/2N3906 is not that critical and can be a real pain since the transistor are different (hence not coming from the same batch ...)
If I remember correctly, good matching between those two gives you a better tracking of the VCF when it is in self oscillation.
muted
jdelgoulet wrote:
muted
hum ... looks like you cannot since with the method mentioned you compared two identical transistor at the same time. I have used the Moog method where you measure Vbe for each transistor.
The matching between the 2N3904/2N3906 is not that critical and can be a real pain since the transistor are different (hence not coming from the same batch ...)
If I remember correctly, good matching between those two gives you a better tracking of the VCF when it is in self oscillation.
Ah great, okay, well I guess i will put them in tulip sockets and save for a rainy day to match that pair somehow. Thanks!
LED-man
I found one 2N3906 and 2N3904 with same vbe by usage different vendors.
But spend for this job one hour of testing.
I used sockets for this both trannys and measure later in the calibration the difference to non matched types.
CeeJay
I always only use my multimeter (Fluke 45) in diode test mode to match transistors. It shows vbe with 4 decimal places.
Here is a link to how to do it in greater detail (by Ken Stone):

https://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/simple_transistor_matching.html

Important: all transistors have to be at the exact same temperature! So never touch them with your fingers before the measurement. Use tweezers or left the transistors on tape if they come on tape.
And always read the measured value after the same time after you connect the probes of the multimeter to them. The longer you measure the more the transistor is heating up.
muted
I have two (additional) total noob questions:

Topic 1
I wish to clean the PCB from my rosin core flux - I have some 99% isopropanol and a toothbrush, but should I: A) Clean both sides of the PCB, and B) What should I look out for in this process (pots, switches, trimpots etc? other?)

Topic 2
Regarding the thermal heatsink grease: What specs does it have? Is there a picture/guide to do this kind of thing? Will it not brittle/dry out somehow if exposed to air? The link for radioshack will not work for me as I live in Europe :S
mgronroos
jdelgoulet wrote:
Wiring for the Jacks board has been uploaded to Github : Jacks Board wiring
@Michael : as you can see, envelope outputs are already there. They are buffered. Guinness ftw!

Note that the angle male pin header (JP19), located on the Control Board, is used to tap the filter envelope pre or post "Amount potentiometer". This comes handy when you want , for example, assign the VCF envelope to a VCO when this one is sync to another one.


Wow, thanks, this is sweet music to my ears!
I think I need to take a closer look at the documentation on GitHub..

Cheers!

//Michael
LED-man
Where can I find the schematics?

how about JP10 ?
the BOM shows 2 jumpers , one for JP19 and the other one ?
muted
LED-man wrote:
Where can I find the schematics?

how about JP10 ?
the BOM shows 2 jumpers , one for JP19 and the other one ?


Take a look at the "Adjustment and Tuning" tab in the build guide for the jumpers.
LED-man
thank you.
i informed yesterday Julien about this missing info.
it looks like that he changed the page with this important info, very good.
jdelgoulet
I was about to say : ' I updated the build guide with the information about the jumpers' ...
Setup and Calibration
CeeJay
My progress so far:
Almost ready! Only waiting for the M8 plastic washers for the pots and the two knobless pots on the jacks board. (There is always something I forget to order!)








masterofstuff124
Ooo the jack board is seperate?

I personally would prefer mounting the jacks above the Knobs.

But i will have to figure out a custom panel.
jdelgoulet
CeeJay
That is one clean build !!! love the protection on tempco cool
CeeJay
Thanks! I enjoyed the soldering very much. I always take my time and do it slowly but decent.
I used very thin heat shrink tube on the wires of the tempcos.
LED-man
I finished my MME today.
The Sound is very good compared to my old Minimoog D.
The MME build is complex but with the great online buildguide it's easier compared to the most PDF guides.
The sync function is great.

Thank you Julien

nickster
Excellent to see one already built. LED-man. nanners
Mine is slowly coming along. Still not really sure about matching transistors. I am going to have to go with the diode test mode recommended by on CGS
https://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/simple_transistor_matching.html

Does anyone think this will be good enough for this project? For the MPS8097 transistors I have already found enough matched pairs with readings of .601 etc on my DMM in diode test mode.
flagada
Why not match your transistors using the Moog schematic? I built this simple circuit on stripboard, works lik a charm.

http://www.dragonflyalley.com/synth/techniqueMatchingTransistors.htm
nickster
flagada wrote:
Why not match your transistors using the Moog schematic? I built this simple circuit on stripboard, works lik a charm.

http://www.dragonflyalley.com/synth/techniqueMatchingTransistors.htm


I actually have the Ian Fritz testing boards but the method needed to test transistors using one of these is confusing me somewhat. I typically get a reading of say 0.001 which I am guessing is the difference between the transistor I am testing and the reference transistor. But something tells me this must be wrong. I'm more comfortable using the diode testing method. seriously, i just don't get it Perhaps I should go ahead and buy a Peak Atlas DCA Pro DCA75.
See here: http://www.peakelec.co.uk/acatalog/dca75-dca-pro.html But this feels like overkill.
muted
I have a question: The BOM lists 28 plastic washers, but are only 22 needed? It says "add the plastic washers" in the soldering guide, but it says nothing about adding them to the 6 switches. Or did I misunderstand? Should I have added plastic washers to those as well?
jdelgoulet
muted
BOM is incorrect. I will fix that sorry.
It should be 22, one for each potentiometer.
muted
jdelgoulet wrote:
muted
BOM is incorrect. I will fix that sorry.
It should be 22, one for each potentiometer.
As long as I did not mount it wrong, which it then would appear that I didn't smile Thanks!
Thalassa
flagada wrote:
Why not match your transistors using the Moog schematic? I built this simple circuit on stripboard, works lik a charm.

http://www.dragonflyalley.com/synth/techniqueMatchingTransistors.htm


The best and easy way to match transistors is using this other method by Ian Fritz. Instead measuring the transistor Vbe you measure the difference between a reference transistor and later you match the pairs.
This is the original document:
http://www.dragonflyalley.com/images/TransistorMatching/ianFritz-trans mat0011_144.pdf
Check Mate
I can proudly report that my MME is up and running!
I already calibrated the voltages and will do the rest on Saturday.
If you stick to the build guide and do one step at a time it is quite nice to build. However you have to be careful not to make any solder bridges and need a steady hand because the layout is quite tight.

Anyways...I'm glad the project happend so a big Cheers to you Julien! Guinness ftw!
nickster
Thalassa wrote:
[quote="flagada"

The best and easy way to match transistors is using this other method by Ian Fritz. Instead measuring the transistor Vbe you measure the difference between a reference transistor and later you match the pairs.
This is the original document:
http://www.dragonflyalley.com/images/TransistorMatching/ianFritz-trans mat0011_144.pdf


Then if i understand correctly the 0.001 reading i was getting using Ian Fritz's pcb was correct? However the transistors measured via diode test were not matching identically as the Fritz ones were. Hence the confusion. I gather that Fritz's method is a more accurate way to go. Is this statement correct? Sorry for banging on about this but the amount of conflicting information on the subject here and elsewhere does confuse me.
muted
So I am looking at buying 0.1 % resistors for the matched resistor pairs, as I do not have a multimeter precise enough.

Does it matter what the temperature coefficient of the resistors are? All my other resistors are primarily from Tayda.

For instance the 15kohm 1% resistors I have bought through the BOM, are 100 ppm/C, but 0.1% of the same kind are 50 ppm/C on Mouser - is that a problem?
Kipling
muted wrote:
So I am looking at buying 0.1 % resistors for the matched resistor pairs, as I do not have a multimeter precise enough.

Does it matter what the temperature coefficient of the resistors are? All my other resistors are primarily from Tayda.

For instance the 15kohm 1% resistors I have bought through the BOM, are 100 ppm/C, but 0.1% of the same kind are 50 ppm/C on Mouser - is that a problem?

The lower the ppm/C the better.
muted
Kipling wrote:
muted wrote:
So I am looking at buying 0.1 % resistors for the matched resistor pairs, as I do not have a multimeter precise enough.

Does it matter what the temperature coefficient of the resistors are? All my other resistors are primarily from Tayda.

For instance the 15kohm 1% resistors I have bought through the BOM, are 100 ppm/C, but 0.1% of the same kind are 50 ppm/C on Mouser - is that a problem?

The lower the ppm/C the better.
Right, I'm just wondering if it matters that there is an asymmetry between resistors internally, such that some resistors respond differently to heat than others.
jdelgoulet
muted
Remember that we are talking about a circuitry from the 70s. I'm pretty sure they did not bother with that at that time. w00t
Thalassa
nickster wrote:
Then if i understand correctly the 0.001 reading i was getting using Ian Fritz's pcb was correct? However the transistors measured via diode test were not matching identically as the Fritz ones were. Hence the confusion. I gather that Fritz's method is a more accurate way to go. Is this statement correct? Sorry for banging on about this but the amount of conflicting information on the subject here and elsewhere does confuse me.


You should put your multimeter in auto range or mV to make the measures. I gees that your 0,001 is 1mV. The Vbe changes with temperature, if you take a bunch of transistors and starts to measure the Vbe and the room temperature changes the Vbe value will change, If you measure again a transistor that you have measured half on hour early the Vbe will be not the same. The good thing about Fritz method is that you are not measuring the actual Vbe, you are measuring the difference with a reference transistor and they are at the same room temperature. The difference between them will be independent of the the room temperature.
Kevin Mitchell
Again;
Kevin Mitchell wrote:
I have some info on what I call *Poor Man's Matching* for this project I'd like to share.

Measure between the E pins in millivolts until it's stable and record the measurement. Those with the same measurement should be a Vbe match. (Q2 is your test transistor and Q1 stays in place as a reference.


I'd use tape to store the part with the measurement labeled and after I've done a handful or all of them I'd sort through them and select favorable matches.


Transistor circuit on the right. Ian Fritz's project is great if you're trying to calculate the actual Vbe. If you're just trying to find matched pairs there no need to complicate things further. The only pain is they're very temperature sensitive and the milivolt reading is constantly fluttering. I'd like to figure out how to stablize this since it's an issue with all the matching circuits I've read up on. This issue is due to the transistors heating & cooling from operation and also work space temperature.
muted
Did anyone measure the power consumption of the MME yet?
LED-man
muted wrote:
Did anyone measure the power consumption of the MME yet?


150mA per Rail max.
mgronroos
Hi Guys,

Since I am walking the non Euro route I haven't powered up my little beauties yet due to my custom front panel and outputs.

Since I am printing the output board I just want to make sure that I get the extra outputs right.

Are they: Sine, Triangle, Saw Down, Saw Up and Square?
And Pink and White Noise?

Did I miss something or get it wrong?

Best regards,

//Michael
jdelgoulet
mgronroos
Hi Mickael,

if we are talking about the molex headers, the waveform are, front top to bottom :
VCOs :
- VCO-1 : Triangle / Shark / Saw / Pulse / Gnd
- VCO-2 : Triangle / Shark / Saw / Pulse / Gnd
- VCO-3 : Triangle / Saw Down / Saw Up / Pulse / Gnd

The noise outputs are, from left to right
- Gnd / White / Red / Pink

However, I would recommend using the control board to 'pickup' waveforms.
nickster
Julien or anyone that has completed a build. Can you kindly let me know the depth of the MME. From faceplate to the bottom pcb. As I'm designing a housing for this. Many thanks in advance. It's peanut butter jelly time!
jdelgoulet
nickster
Around 45mm. Make it 50mm to be safe.
nickster
jdelgoulet wrote:
nickster
Around 45mm. Make it 50mm to be safe.


Thank-you very much. It's peanut butter jelly time!
muted
About the jumpers: JP19 sets amount envelope pre/post amount potentiometer. Which side is what, and what is the default setting?

And what does JP10 do? Should it be connected by default or not?

Sorry if this is already mentioned.
jdelgoulet
muted
- You must install jumper on JP10.
- JP19 : when you look at the pins (pins toward you) :
-> jumper on the left : PRE
-> jumper on the right : POST
jdelgoulet
By the way, for those of you who owns a Mutable Instruments Yarns, you can play the MME in 'paraphonic mode' using the following settings :

- Layout mode : 3+
- Voice allocation : U2
- Yarns CV1, CV2 and CV3 to MME CV1, CV2 CV3 inputs
- Yarns Gate1 to MME Gate input.

Enjoy the chords w00t
muted
jdelgoulet wrote:
muted
- You must install jumper on JP10.
- JP19 : when you look at the pins (pins toward you) :
-> jumper on the left : PRE
-> jumper on the right : POST
So I have 4 questions (sorry, I know...)

JP19: Pins facing me and panel UPWARDS, right?

What does JP10 do, would I ever want to remove it?

Also, what is the Model D default for the PRE/POST JP19 jumper?

And finally, explain to me like I'm 5, why would I want to the PRE/POST setting when syncing oscillators?
jdelgoulet
muted

#1 :
JP19: Pins facing me and panel UPWARDS, right? : yes.
Now not a big deal. You can later change that. I sometimes change my mind myself and use a small pliers to change the jumper position.

#2 :
JP10 : one day you might want to remove it and replace it with something else ... but for now forget about it and place a jumper. Once you will have everything solder and working properly, i'll tell you what it does Mr. Green

#3 :
Because you want to be able to set the amount of envelop that goes out.
But it's not just regarding the syncing of oscillators.

Imagine routing the VCF envelop output into the CV2 input (VCO 2 pitch)
You have JP19 in 'pre' position.
If you have your VCF envelop attack set to '10', the voltage at the VCF env output will rise from 0v to 5v.
This leads to your VCO 2 pitch going from C0 to C5 ( 5 octaves) !

Now, imagine you want, for the same VCF attack level, your VCO to go from C0 to C1. Place the jumper in 'post' position. You can now set the Amount to '2' and envelop output voltage will rise from 0v to 1v.
muted
jdelgoulet wrote:
muted

#1 :
JP19: Pins facing me and panel UPWARDS, right? : yes.
Now not a big deal. You can later change that. I sometimes change my mind myself and use a small pliers to change the jumper position.

#2 :
JP10 : one day you might want to remove it and replace it with something else ... but for now forget about it and place a jumper. Once you will have everything solder and working properly, i'll tell you what it does Mr. Green

#3 :
Because you want to be able to set the amount of envelop that goes out.
But it's not just regarding the syncing of oscillators.

Imagine routing the VCF envelop output into the CV2 input (VCO 2 pitch)
You have JP19 in 'pre' position.
If you have your VCF envelop attack set to '10', the voltage at the VCF env output will rise from 0v to 5v.
This leads to your VCO 2 pitch going from C0 to C5 ( 5 octaves) !

Now, imagine you want, for the same VCF attack level, your VCO to go from C0 to C1. Place the jumper in 'post' position. You can now set the Amount to '2' and envelop output voltage will rise from 0v to 1v.
thumbs up Thanks! As bonus info, I'm getting close. Thanks for answering my many questions!
glennfin
To save me from having to read through 55 pages of posts, can someone point me in the right direction... I'd like to order PCB set and panel..

Thanks! Mr. Green Mr. Green
mgronroos
jdelgoulet wrote:
mgronroos
Hi Mickael,

if we are talking about the molex headers, the waveform are, front top to bottom :
VCOs :
- VCO-1 : Triangle / Shark / Saw / Pulse / Gnd
- VCO-2 : Triangle / Shark / Saw / Pulse / Gnd
- VCO-3 : Triangle / Saw Down / Saw Up / Pulse / Gnd

The noise outputs are, from left to right
- Gnd / White / Red / Pink

However, I would recommend using the control board to 'pickup' waveforms.


Perfect! Thx Julien!

Best,

Michael
Altitude909
Will there be/is there an option for PCBs only? I think I'm going to go stand alone on this and wont need a panel. (and yes I'm aware of the seconds pcbs, I'd like the correct ones)
jdelgoulet
Altitude909
If you plan to go the 'non eurorack route' you better get the PCB that are 'faulty'. (You can see what the error is here : https://github.com/guinguin-instruments/MME-Non-Eurorack-documentation  ).

Then you can order here : https://guinguin-instruments.ecwid.com/
glennfin
jdelgoulet wrote:
Altitude909
If you plan to go the 'non eurorack route' you better get the PCB that are 'faulty'. (You can see what the error is here : https://github.com/guinguin-instruments/MME-Non-Eurorack-documentation  ).

Then you can order here : https://guinguin-instruments.ecwid.com/


Where is the order page for eurorack version, pcb and panel?
jdelgoulet
glennfin( I sent you a PM)

Sorry gleenfin, I'm out of stock as far as PCB and Panel Kits are concerned. Will have them back in mid/end september. Apologize.
glennfin
jdelgoulet wrote:
glennfin( I sent you a PM)

Sorry gleenfin, I'm out of stock as far as PCB and Panel Kits are concerned. Will have them back in mid/end september. Apologize.


No problem... thanks.

Glenn
Altitude909
jdelgoulet wrote:
Altitude909
If you plan to go the 'non eurorack route' you better get the PCB that are 'faulty'. (You can see what the error is here : https://github.com/guinguin-instruments/MME-Non-Eurorack-documentation  ).

Then you can order here : https://guinguin-instruments.ecwid.com/


Flying wires are a non-starter for me. I'd really like the correct boards. I guess you answered my question, mid September for more boards
Jesse8n
Anyone know where to get the BF245 Transistor (Q95, Q96), or can recommend an alternate? Have not been able to find any, looks to be discontinued.
TheSlowGrowth
That transistor is discontinued, but has an SMD replacement: BF545B (which is also available from reichelt)
CeeJay
Banzai Music still have them:
https://www.banzaimusic.com/BF245B.html
You can also buy the knobs and pots there...
Jesse8n
Thanks TheSlowGrowth and CeeJay
finnurbjarna
Has anybody in or near the UK got a spare batch of 2N3954A's to sell, or want to go halves on a batch from Micross?
jdelgoulet
finnurbjarna
You can get them from Patrick's shop too now : https://www.diysynth.de/?cat=c6_active-components-active-components.ht ml
nickster
Will these toggle switches work as replacements for the APEM5636's found in SW1, SW3, SW4, SW5, SW7, SW8, SW9, SW10.

https://www.electrokit.com/en/toggle-switch-1p-on-off-on-solder-lugs.5 4558

Many thanks as ever. cool
Jesse8n
Ok, one last thing. MPS8097. I have all other parts either in my possession or ordered except those and mouser says they aren't getting any until November. I searched and could not find anywhere else that had them. Anyone know of any in stock...or did anyone buy a lot of them to match and have a bunch left over that they want to sell me?
jdelgoulet
nickster
It's difficult to give you an answer since there is like zero data for that switch (Height, distance between pins). Also the price seems very high for what it looks to be some low cost chinese switches. The APEM 5636 are sturdy one, made in europe and cost 3.58 euros @farnell. (Yours are about 3 euros ...)
nickster
jdelgoulet wrote:
nickster
It's difficult to give you an answer since there is like zero data for that switch (Height, distance between pins). Also the price seems very high for what it looks to be some low cost chinese switches. The APEM 5636 are sturdy one, made in europe and cost 3.58 euros @farnell. (Yours are about 3 euros ...)

Thanks once again Julien I'll follow the BOM as suggested then.
finnurbjarna
jdelgoulet wrote:
finnurbjarna
You can get them from Patrick's shop too now : https://www.diysynth.de/?cat=c6_active-components-active-components.ht ml


Thanks, Julien. They look like NOS ones as well!
CeeJay
Today I have finished building my MME. Much more room between the knobs than I thought. Very happy!

LED-man
finnurbjarna wrote:
jdelgoulet wrote:
finnurbjarna
You can get them from Patrick's shop too now : https://www.diysynth.de/?cat=c6_active-components-active-components.ht ml


Thanks, Julien. They look like NOS ones as well!


There's no difference between this NOS and original.
I used this in all TTSH builds.
CeeJay
jdelgoulet wrote:

if we are talking about the molex headers, the waveform are, front top to bottom :
VCOs :
- VCO-1 : Triangle / Shark / Saw / Pulse / Gnd
- VCO-2 : Triangle / Shark / Saw / Pulse / Gnd
- VCO-3 : Triangle / Saw Down / Saw Up / Pulse / Gnd

The noise outputs are, from left to right
- Gnd / White / Red / Pink

However, I would recommend using the control board to 'pickup' waveforms.


@Julien
Do you plan to sell panels for these outputs?
And why do you recommend using the control board to pickup the waveforms?
I guess you mean directly at the waveform switches?
JTR1
[quote="CeeJay"]Today I have finished building my MME. Much more room between the knobs than I thought. Very happy!

Nice looking build! What toggle switches did you use or are those hats on the toggles?
pokeyasd
Did I miss this? Did all the good stuff go out of stock already?
muted
[quote="JTR1"]
CeeJay wrote:
Today I have finished building my MME. Much more room between the knobs than I thought. Very happy!

Nice looking build! What toggle switches did you use or are those hats on the toggles?
Tayda has these

http://www.taydaelectronics.com/electromechanical/switches-key-pad/tog gle-switch/toggle-switch-handle-cap-red.html

Unfortunately they do not have them in blue, but I'm sure Ebay/AliExpress does.
sYmphoman
Hi,

Back after 3 weeks away from home, and back to my finnished but untested boards.
So, debug time...

I started testing the +10v and -10v tracks on the analog board (not connected to the control board. I assume it's alright). both jumpers are installed.
I have 2 issues :
1/ my -10v seems buggy : not only do I get a +0.7v (trimpot has no effect) )on TP1, but also on my supply unit when plugged. I suspect a bad soldure or a bad component somewhere. Any idea where to start looking?
2/ My +10v is OK on TP2, TP4 and TP8 with -10v unplugged, but not TP6 (I get a 0.6v). I guess there's a problem on my OSC2 path, but again, where to start looking without the schematics?

Thanks for any good idea to help me ;-)
CeeJay
The very first thing to check (even before connecting the power supply) is always to measure the resistance between +12V and gnd, -12V and gnd and +12V and -12V.
I guess you have a short somewhere.

Edit: Maybe it's a good idea to have a new thread for MME build problems and troubleshooting?