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mixer for dub production
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Author mixer for dub production
lilakmonoke
im having my yearly "i need an analog mixer" problem. what i think i really need is something with a lot of dub functionality. here is an interesting article by mad professor and his ariwa studio on dub mixing:

http://ariwa.com/portfolio/large-portfolio/

im doing electronic music, at the moment a lot of ambient but i think its a very similar process:

- bringing in and out different analog source signals
- eqing
- mixing in a lot of effects in my case lots of delay and feedback

so what i need would be at least:

- 4 aux
- mutable channels
- decent eqs

ive had my sights on a midas venice 24 but now i think its really to big and there is also a fan which i despise deeply. now im thinking an allen heath zed 24 would be nice, its a lot more compact. how do these sound? i know the old soundcraft mixers 600/6000 are great for dub but then you have to deal with vintage electronics maintainance.

any more ideas on modern dub mixers? even in a different price range ...

then ive seen this tascam mixer from the 80s which is the ultimate in DOPE. im beginning to think a tascam 844 would be interesting too. 8 channels of tape hiss!



visible cow
Subscribing to this thread because I'm on the lookout for a similar mixer. The Toft ATB has caught my eye....word on the street is that the newest ones don't have the build issues associated with the first models. Not cheap though.
CF3
Price range?

I've done a bunch of recording and mixing for reggae bands (played in some myself). Any decent console will do really. Something like a Soundcraft Ghost with 8 busses is good for doing submixes. Soundtracs Topaz, Midas Venice 240, Mackie 24/8, A&H GS3, TAC Scorpion, D&R Vision, Neotek Elan, Toft ATB. There's really alot of stuff that will work. There is no "dub mixer" per se. Money being no issue I would go SSL XL-Desk with the 500 series modules (in my dreams). I've used the Tascam 388 back in the day...definitely fun times. Maintaining it can be a PITA.
lilakmonoke
tuft is nice but i think also too pricey. there is not much point in sinking a few k into a console but i might change my mind if i find one that sounds way awesome. i think more in terms of functionality and somehow i think it should be somewhat portable.

i think a dub mixer should be built like a good dj mixer, rugged, simple, compact. right? somehow the "industry" just doesnt get that point, they always think "studio" or "live" but not "dope dub".

here is another good console workout. what mixer is that?

plord
You will not be disappointed with the Allen & Heath EQ section. It sounds great and the swept mids have a very wide range so you can be really creative.

One question is: are all of your effects outboard? The Zed24 is one of their USB devices IIRC, which means you're likely going to get the main outs or one pair of sends to a computer. I have the Zed R16, a firewire model, and I can send all 16 tracks to the DAW, then switch modes to pull the tracks from disk, sum in the analog domain with sends etc., and send the main mix back down.
CF3
lilakmonoke wrote:
i think a dub mixer should be built like a good dj mixer, rugged, simple, compact. right? somehow the "industry" just doesnt get that point, they always think "studio" or "live" but not "dope dub".


If you want something simple, compact, flexible I would say Midas Venice 160. That's what Pole (stefan betke) uses for his live dub shows. Fun little mixer w/ great routing. Also since youre in Europe, I'd look for a used D&R ClubMix.
lilakmonoke
sure, you can dub on any mixer but im thinking there must be a modern mixer around that does that well.

mackie 32/8 ... lotsa busses!

lilakmonoke
CF3 wrote:
If you want something simple, compact, flexible I would say Midas Venice 160. That's what Pole (stefan betke) uses for his live dub shows. Fun little mixer w/ great routing. Also since youre in Europe, I'd look for a used D&R ClubMix.


venice 160, interesting. do these sound different from the new ones with digital audio like venice 24f? with fan? midas mixers sound really nice ...

i like the looks of this mixer, thats an allen heath system 8 from the 80s. im pulling a lot of this from this page at the slutz ... https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-electroni c-music-production/421578-dub-consoles.html

lilakmonoke
dr clubmix, never heard of it, the eqs sound awesome, thanks! only one aux send so dubs would be a challenge but there is a crossfader!

Soy Sos
"Mackie 32/8"

Used one for many years, I think a good Allen & Heath
will give a much better vibe especially for dub.
Low end is going to be warmer and highs less "bitey"
There are a lot of deals out there in the 32 x 8 x 2 format,
but you'll have to avoid the crap units. Don't buy sight unseen!
What delay and reverb units do you have?
Look for Effectron for digi delays, they're great!
I have an Orban 111B dual spring reverb that pretty sweet too.
lilakmonoke
allen heath mixwizard 16:2 console, looks really compact ... you can see a lot of dub mixing skills in this video, like sweeping the mids in feedback delay runs.

lilakmonoke
this one is amazing. 1 min in you can see the handmade console of king tubby in action in the 80s. really simple, 12 channels, big ass knobs, what looks like 3 band eq and only one aux. probably connected to an 8 track tape machine which leaves 4 tracks for effect returns. correct me if im wrong. you cant buy stuff like that!




more info: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/38413-what -desk-king-tubbys-console.html
adnauseam
lilakmonoke wrote:
dr clubmix, never heard of it, the eqs sound awesome, thanks! only one aux send so dubs would be a challenge but there is a crossfader!



I'd love a mixer like this with four aux sends..

For now I'll just use a midi controller with my audio interface.
StoneLaw
I was gonna say that the A+H stuff I've played seemed like a big step up from competitors in the same price range, but that 8 track 1/4" thingie looks pretty amazing.
echoplex
look for a A&H GL2 or bigger.. the GL2 beats the newer A&H consoles by far!
I have one and considering to sell.. anyway
heapish
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIUPINfKNno
CF3
Honestly, you can do anyone of those videos on a $150 Mackie 1402. There's nothing special going on with the mixer. It's all about practice and technique (just like DJing...which IS dubmixing afterall). I would worry more about finding a console that fits your technical specifications like track count and direct outs, etc..
stk
Yeah, the most important thing is ergonomics, and learning to play the board like an instrument. That, and enough channels & sends to achieve what you want.

I recently picked one of these up for a live dub project, quite enjoying it.
I like the 50/50 split: drums & bass on one side, instruments & fx returns on the other.

Barfunkel
CF3 wrote:
Honestly, you can do anyone of those videos on a $150 Mackie 1402. There's nothing special going on with the mixer. It's all about practice and technique (just like DJing...which IS dubmixing afterall). I would worry more about finding a console that fits your technical specifications like track count and direct outs, etc..


Gotta disagree with you a bit here. When making dub, you usually have a delay loop going on (ie. you use the AUX send of the delay return channel to make a really long delay loop and use the EQ to control how the the sound changes over time). Good sound quality and good EQ matter quite a bit there, when then signal passes through the mixer like 10 times.

I've used the cheap & nasty stuff like Behringers and Mackies for dub delays and at least to my ears they don't produce a very good effect.
lilakmonoke
CF3 wrote:
Honestly, you can do anyone of those videos on a $150 Mackie 1402. There's nothing special going on with the mixer. It's all about practice and technique (just like DJing...which IS dubmixing afterall). I would worry more about finding a console that fits your technical specifications like track count and direct outs, etc..


i tend to agree except for the mackie part. i have a 1604 and anything that goes through this thing turns into lifeless matter. on the other hand im doing electronic music not dub so im looking for a clean sound with musical eqs. right now im leaning towards an allen heath GLx or a midas venice if i can find one without a fan.

what about the allen heath gl2400-16, anybody knows what that sounds like?
adam
depending what you want to do you could rent one for a weekend now and again once you have material ready

or just rent one for a weekend first to see how you like it

or make your own for dub authenticity wink
Paradigm X
i love my souondtracs topaz, great eq, 4-6 fx sends, 8 groups, inserts everywhere.

i paid about £200, these big old consoles go for peanuts these days.
tongebirge
I would only use a real Analog Mixer for Dub because of the sound.
2 effeckt ways should be in the Mixer for a Phaser and One for the Tape Echo or spring Reverb.
If you need a Melodica or Percussion for your Dub Tracks let me know Rockin' Banana!

www.soundcloud.com/dubinspace
stk
I've always had a soft spot for A&H, had a ZED240 on loan for a year and have a beastly GS3 in storage, but it's just too big to take out live so I picked up the aforementioned Soundcraft for cheap.
I's a really nice board.

Really I generally agree that almost anything will be fine, as long as it's not Behringer (Their mixers suck, or at least the did last time I used them, maybe 10 years ago).

Another thing to consider is the fader feel. The Mackie I used to have had quite a lot of fader resistance - not so good for quick dub moves - while the Soundcraft has really smooth, fast-moving faders.
Seriously, check out the LX7II thumbs up
CF3
Barfunkel wrote:
CF3 wrote:
Honestly, you can do anyone of those videos on a $150 Mackie 1402. There's nothing special going on with the mixer. It's all about practice and technique (just like DJing...which IS dubmixing afterall). I would worry more about finding a console that fits your technical specifications like track count and direct outs, etc..


Gotta disagree with you a bit here. When making dub, you usually have a delay loop going on (ie. you use the AUX send of the delay return channel to make a really long delay loop and use the EQ to control how the the sound changes over time). Good sound quality and good EQ matter quite a bit there, when then signal passes through the mixer like 10 times.

I've used the cheap & nasty stuff like Behringers and Mackies for dub delays and at least to my ears they don't produce a very good effect.


My point was this topic seems to come up here and on Gearslutz on a regular basis. People tend to think there's some sort of magic "dub" console. There is not. Obviously you always want to buy the highest quality console money will allow. Lee Perry used Soundcraft and Tangent consoles (among others). Adrian Sherwood has used Soundcrafts (not exactly "Neve" quality there). Alot of the Island stuff was mixed on Studers. Other more recent people like Kiva don't use ANY CONSOLE. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lrxrqTZT00
Understanding whats going on and developing your manual skill is far more important. I stand by my statement that it's the user and not the tool.

http://www.interruptor.ch/dub.shtml
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