Newb looking for 'Patching for dummies' kind of thing

Anything modular synth related that is not format specific.

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cartoonbomb
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Post by cartoonbomb » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:51 am

The Doepfer patch diagrams are fantastic for somebody like me, who is not new to subtractive synthesis but very new to modulars.

I have a basic question about envelope generators.

http://www.modular-planet.de/synthlead/ ... yreso.html

I understand that the the EGs are modulating the CV ins on the VCF and VCA. Here is what I don't get, and the answer is probably very obvious. What is triggering the EGs? I understand EGs as "one-shot", doesn't something need to tell it when to shoot?

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snadge
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Post by snadge » Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:37 pm

cartoonbomb wrote:
http://www.modular-planet.de/synthlead/ ... yreso.html

I understand that the the EGs are modulating the CV ins on the VCF and VCA. Here is what I don't get, and the answer is probably very obvious. What is triggering the EGs? I understand EGs as "one-shot", doesn't something need to tell it when to shoot?
If you look at 'connections' it says; Trigger/Gate and Pitch-Voltage from keyboard.

cartoonbomb
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Post by cartoonbomb » Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:02 pm

snadge wrote:
cartoonbomb wrote:
http://www.modular-planet.de/synthlead/ ... yreso.html

I understand that the the EGs are modulating the CV ins on the VCF and VCA. Here is what I don't get, and the answer is probably very obvious. What is triggering the EGs? I understand EGs as "one-shot", doesn't something need to tell it when to shoot?
If you look at 'connections' it says; Trigger/Gate and Pitch-Voltage from keyboard.
Gotcha, so I guess the Trigger/Gate from the keyboard goes to the "Gate" input on the eg, and the pitch-voltage will go to the CV in on the VCO?

Also, is it assumed that the Trigger/Gate from the keyboard is multipled to go to both EGs?

If the above things are true, I think I'm starting to get it. thanks :)

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analogdata
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Post by analogdata » Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:02 pm

might be handy to test things out if you don't have access to your modular.
also to try basic things you want to learn.

http://petervandernoord.nl/patchwork/

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dragulasbruder
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Post by dragulasbruder » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:57 pm

thanx for the music easel guide, i'd seen most of that other stuff and already had the subtractive basics under my thumb, but all that additive/wavefolding/crossfading buchla shit really gave me a bunch of great ideas. forever a newb, i guess.
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nilt-cam
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Post by nilt-cam » Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:29 am

Thanks for the information.

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fishdream
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Post by fishdream » Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:55 pm

thanks for the great list of resources.
i was able to track down a pdf of allen's book too.

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Togodumnus
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Post by Togodumnus » Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:34 am

Babaluma wrote:... do i have to resort to guilt tripping people every time someone posts about how great it is to steal copyrighted material? ...
What about second-hand bookshops? No author benefits from the re-selling of their printed work. Or specialist vinyl record shops. Would you boycott these too? I'm sure this sort of thing has contributed to the demise of the High Street in recent times. :despair:

In my view, if a short-sighted publisher hopelessly undersells any work, leaving potential customers no choice other than to print-out "pirated" PDF versions of a much-sought-after volume, then it's their own fault!
I'm also sure that many people with facsimile versions of printed works would swap them in an instant for a legitimate copy of the same, should it become readily available.
Last edited by Togodumnus on Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Overdosed on pulse-width modulation.

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Togodumnus
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Post by Togodumnus » Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:44 am

Oops! Sorry!

How do you delete a post?
Overdosed on pulse-width modulation.

construct09
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Post by construct09 » Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:34 am

You don't

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jumbomonkey
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Post by jumbomonkey » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:27 pm

this is a great thread guys, thanks for the info

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Notfromearth
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Post by Notfromearth » Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:39 am

thanks a lot guys...very very usefull!!
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AKMacAddict
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Post by AKMacAddict » Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:33 pm

Nice thread, with good resources, for someone trying to wrap their head around it all. Thanks!

:tu:

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blaerg
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Post by blaerg » Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:57 pm

More gratitude for the thread.

Reading the '83 Strange now.

NoPassFilter
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Post by NoPassFilter » Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:23 am

[video]

That video is pretty informative.[/video]

dimxl
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Post by dimxl » Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:48 pm

Good thread!

but there are too many information :woah:

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timmcg
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A foundation for Electronic music by Roland

Post by timmcg » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:59 pm

Roland put out a four book package about thirty years ago, so it's long out of print but it was quite good. One of the books was theory of sound and synthesis and another was all about patching. One of the other two was about multitrack recording synths. Here's a link to the first one about theory.

http://www.analogindustries.com/b1755/

I have a couple of unopened copies in the attic somewhere which I should dig up now that I see they're going for mucho coin; like $150. Yikes, they only cost $10 new.

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Multi Grooves
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Post by Multi Grooves » Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:47 pm

Devarhi's Complete Guide to Synthesizers is a well regarded tome in this field. They're hard to get hold of and are quite expensive.
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smetak
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Post by smetak » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:50 pm

Yeah, not very cheap - the Devarhi title is selling for over US$70 at Amazon, but the review is quite positive. I'm tempted in getting it - any other opinions on the book?

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Multi Grooves
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Post by Multi Grooves » Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:52 pm

I rate it highly, though I had to stop relatively early doors as I didn't have enough modules to keep going through the exercises. But it does give food for thought and a raise the will to plug and play.

I can't remember if its been mentioned on this thread but Gordon Reid has done AMAZING work with his Synth Secrets series in Sound on Sound magazine that gives excellent real world reflection of synthesis. And they're all free to read so definitely check it out.
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smetak
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Post by smetak » Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:29 am

I've been reading the Sound on Sound articles - impressive stuff (unfortunately, you can't print them due to the size of the block diagrams).

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istochnikov
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Post by istochnikov » Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:36 pm



Hi, I just make a small modular system but I'm very novel on that, I am beginning to patch.
I have a silly problem with the adsr, I have seen the doepfer videos about adsr and I am copying but the thing don't sounds equal.
I sent a trigger from my midi keyboard to the adsr but only heard blows instead the waves of the osc. Can you help me?
Perhaps you have been talking about this before, I'm reading the forums but,,,
Regards :bang: :bang:

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timmcg
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Post by timmcg » Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:15 pm

I don't know how you have patched it but here are a few things to know.

#Assuming you're not using a VCF, typical signal flow on a synth is VCO audio out to VCA audio in and the output of the VCA then goes to your monitors. Your keyboard will output a gate / trigger which then goes into the Gate in on the ADSR and the ADRS's CV output should go into the VCA's CV input. This will cause the amplifier to turn up when the gate goes high which is when you press a key. Also, make sure your VCA gain control (the top one on a Doepfer) is lower than 10. Turn it down to 0 and then turn up the CV coming from the ADSR. You should hear nothing if you're not pressing down a key and only hear a sound when you press down a key.

#2 If you're using a Doepfer, the ones I have used have a range switch at the bottom. May I suggest setting it to M (for medium). Then set the knobs like this to begin with: A = 0, D = 0, S = 10 and R = 0. This will output a simple on / off which will be the same as it sounds just using the Gate out from your keyboard into the CV input of the VCA. Once you get that happening, then you can start adjusting the attack and release controls. Remember also that decay only works when sustain is lower than 10. So simply turn down sustain and it should start to work.

Hope this helps.
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istochnikov
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Post by istochnikov » Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:18 pm

Hi Tim, thanks for your help but I am doing exactly what you say and not sound good. The video I posted was already doing exactly that.
Instead of sounding the oscillator signal, a faint breath sounds.
I keep trying..

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timmcg
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Post by timmcg » Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:06 pm

Here's what I see.

VCO's outputs (triangle and pulse) are input to the VCA's audio inputs 1 & 2. The output of the VCA is into a mixer channel 1 and you have a CV coming from the ADSR into CV1 of the VCA. The ADSR is obviously being triggered internally by your keyboard somehow. Usually we use an exponential VCA for audio. Linear VCA's are most often used for CVs. It's not the end of the world if you use a linear VCA for audio, it's just not the norm in my books.

I would try turning the knobs up all the way for the audio inputs on the VCA. I can hear that you're getting the VCA to turn up and down but the signal is faint. Also try turning the input knob up all the way on the mixer. I see it's a linear mixer which we usually use for CVs. Audio is an exponential signal so we usually use exponential VCAs and mixers for it. One other thing is to make sure that your PW knob is neither 0 or 10. It looks like it's about 2. Try turning it to 5.

Here's what I would do if I were in your shoes. The first rule in trouble shooting is to eliminate all of the variables. So remove all your patches and do this:

Take a sawtooth (nice and bright) and patch it into input 1 of the VCA and turn it up. Turn the gain knob at the top of the VCA to 10. It should now be on all of the time. Turn down the Gain knob at the top to 0 and take a square wave output from your LFO and patch it into the CV input of the VCA. The VCA should now be loud when the LFO goes + and then silent when it goes -. Now disconnect the LFO from the VCA and plug the LFO into the Gate input on the ADSR. Take an output of the ADSR and plug it into the CV input on the VCA. If the settings on the ADSR are 0-0-10-0 then it should sound very similar to the LFO triggering the VCA although it should be louder because the LFO is bipolar and has a voltage range of -2.5 V to +2.5 V. If that works, then disconnect the LFO from the Gate in on the ADSR and plug the Gate out from your keyboard into the Gate in on the ADSR. At that point you'll be where you are now, minus the triangle / square outputs from the VCO and the liner mixer after the VCA. Let me know if this helps. All the best.
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