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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

I got repaid by Peter Grenader/Plan B
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Modular Synth General Discussion  
Author I got repaid by Peter Grenader/Plan B
thee ghost ov n_phay
Hey everyone. A while ago, I posted here (and elsewhere) that I had been given the royal fuck-around by Mr Grenader, who had taken money from me for some modules, and not delivered. I told Mr Grenader that if he ever did repay me, I would let people know that he had done so, hence this account/thread.

It pleases me no end to be able to post that over the new year, Mr Grenader has repaid the sum owed, and with interest as well, so I am not out of pocket.

I think fairly obviously, had Mr Grenader decided not to repay me, I would not have been able to do anything about it. Given this, I think it is to Mr Grenader's great credit that he has settled the matter between us like this. Some people would not have done so, I'm sure. It really makes me happy to see someone doing the right thing.

I have no outstanding issue with Mr Grenader now, and consider him to have settled this matter in an honorable manner.

Thanks for reading, and Thank you Peter Grenader if you are reading this too.
Matos
Good to hear. Looks like he's turning a new page in life.
e-grad
That's good news!

Just realizing that this forum has lost you as a member. That's bad! Hope you'll return.
Luka
nice to hear

now we just need randall to send out some cases and blue lantern to send out some royalty cheques and all major muff forum dramas are sorted
dkcg
Luka wrote:
nice to hear

now we just need randall to send out some cases and blue lantern to send out some royalty cheques and all major muff forum dramas are sorted


Don't forget about that kid who was ripping people off through social media.
Cybananna
Great news. Thanks for posting. Good to hear of another book closed thumbs up
okiikahuna
Peter was always honest and clearly enthusiastic about music and repeatedly went out of his way to be helpful in all my dealings with him. Plus he makes great stuff clearly motivated by his love of electronic music far more than anything else, I think he maywell have been a reluctant businessman. And he puts a wealth of musical knowledge and experience into what he does. I've got two Model 15s as well as a vactrol state variable filter (Model 12?not sure have to check the model number) and a one-off quad lo-pass gate all of which are wonderful. Hope he comes back with more stuff soon.His ability and creativity are an asset to everybody. I hope he soon resurrects his high-tech manufacturing facility (which was cleverly disguised as an ordinary dining room table when I saw it , doubtless to discourage industrial espionage, which is probably why we haven't seen cheap Chinese knockoffs of his designs and which may have influenced Behringer's decision to not make plans for $1.99 Model 15s)
cornutt
Ha. It's fair to say that Peter is a much better designer than he is a businessman. I've corresponded with him a few times and he seems like a decent guy. It's unfortunate that it's hard to make an honest living as a module designer if you don't have all the skills to be a one-man operation.
Pelsea
It's almost impossible to be a one-man operation in any retail field that involves building product. The core of the problem is success is your worst enemy. You have to have a product that generates enough revenue that you can count on paying monthly bills, but is not so popular that you can't fulfill orders as they come in.
MindMachine
cornutt wrote:
Ha. It's fair to say that Peter is a much better designer than he is a businessman. I've corresponded with him a few times and he seems like a decent guy. It's unfortunate that it's hard to make an honest living as a module designer if you don't have all the skills to be a one-man operation.


All true. He grew beyond a one man operation and that is when the trouble started. Peter was a good dude. He got in over his head and it got weird/horrible.

I only have the Model 9 Mixer/Attenuators still. A little big for what it does, but it is a great design. Simple and clever.
okiikahuna
Yeah, sounds right I recall once reading an article about Bob Moog in which he was quoted as saying that Moog's sudden success in the late 60s was responsible for thedownfall of the company.
BugBrand
Pelsea wrote:
It's almost impossible to be a one-man operation in any retail field that involves building product. The core of the problem is success is your worst enemy. You have to have a product that generates enough revenue that you can count on paying monthly bills, but is not so popular that you can't fulfill orders as they come in.


It is easier today than ever before due to the great possibilities offered by the internet - but still wearing all the necessary hats won't work for a lot of people. It is always important to learn to say NO (eg. No I can't do that at the moment - not selling before you've got something built)
Rex Coil 7
Pelsea wrote:
It's almost impossible to be a one-man operation in any retail field that involves building product. The core of the problem is success is your worst enemy. You have to have a product that generates enough revenue that you can count on paying monthly bills, but is not so popular that you can't fulfill orders as they come in.


okiikahuna wrote:
Yeah, sounds right I recall once reading an article about Bob Moog in which he was quoted as saying that Moog's sudden success in the late 60s was responsible for thedownfall of the company.


BugBrand wrote:
.... It is always important to learn to say NO (eg. No I can't do that at the moment ...)
I was doing great ... simply great ... until the mainstream consumer learned of what I was building. Once that army of entitled and spoiled customer landed foot upon my shores things started moving beyond my willingness to play along with the demands of that type of customer. Customers that had become accustomed to getting no-questions-asked refunds and free shipping (along with cloned models from China flooding the market) the situation became something I was no longer willing to participate in. There was no "downfall" per se ... I just simply quit. I didn't want that kind of popularity, not even a little bit.

I much preferred selling to recording and touring professionals. Far better clientele ... easier to deal with, understood what the phrase "custom made, one at a time" meant, and were people that knew what they wanted. Once the mainstream consumer caught wind of my gear it went sour.

RE; "saying no". Well, once the mainstream consumer becomes a viable percentage of your monthly gross sales, "saying no" can turn into very ugly forum posts about your business. Like I said above, you're dealing with entitled, spoiled, people that insist on being treated as if you were WalMart, Sweetwater, Musicians Friend, and so on. So when you take the risk of "saying no" you also accept the risk of being gang raped in one of the more influential forums ... which is not good for your reputation.

At which point you are presented with a choice .... design gear that is conducive to mass production in overseas production facilities (so you can keep up with consumer demands) ..... or bail. Personally I had more self respect which prevented me from whoring out my designs into Chinese made production line crap that betrays my dedication to "hand built excellence". So I opted for choice #2 (bail out).

Tough call, but I made it. No regrets, however I am willing to admit that a small bit of disappointment lingers .... I do wish that I could have found compromise someplace within those two choices.

It is what it is ... I'm ~here~ now. That has to be ok.

thumbs up
okiikahuna
Wow! Bugbrand's comments about learning to say no. just put something in a completely new light for me. A few years ago I was lurking around a Serge Modular forum because i really wanted to get a used TKB from someone. I read several people's comments about how difficult Rex at STS could be, People said that if you pissed him off he'd just refuse to sell stuff to you. At the time, I thought he must be the Soup Nazi of modular "OK! that's it, no modules for you!" and thought why would anybody do business with a guy like that. But maybe, he was just smart enough to know when to say no. But it did lead to a bit of nastiness on the forum from people's bruised feelings. Happily for me,ARC came out with a TKB clone for far less money than I ever saw a used one going for. Can't say enough good things about it. Its really just as cool as I imagined it would be, and I didn't even have to swap out the banana plugs for mini-jacks like I would have on a used one. It was Eurorack right out of the tin.
BugBrand
It wasn't meant to be in any way a pissed off no - just a realistic 'no, I can't manage that now'. Basically not getting in debt. Yeah, I've had a few people react to my ways saying why don't I scale up to meet demand - but things have to be manageable for me.
Nelson Baboon
MindMachine wrote:
cornutt wrote:
Ha. It's fair to say that Peter is a much better designer than he is a businessman. I've corresponded with him a few times and he seems like a decent guy. It's unfortunate that it's hard to make an honest living as a module designer if you don't have all the skills to be a one-man operation.


All true. He grew beyond a one man operation and that is when the trouble started. Peter was a good dude. He got in over his head and it got weird/horrible.

I only have the Model 9 Mixer/Attenuators still. A little big for what it does, but it is a great design. Simple and clever.


so (just my own example) - harassing phone calls at work, many lies about having already fixed and shipped (!) an expensive item, incoherent rants accusing me of "almost sitting on" the item, etc (I'm forgetting, I'm sure, many of the details) are the marks of a "good dude"who is just bad at business?
okiikahuna
Sounds fair enough to me. Plus, how can you possibly go wrong when you've got the coolest brand name ever?
Schrank
Nelson Baboon wrote:
MindMachine wrote:
cornutt wrote:
Ha. It's fair to say that Peter is a much better designer than he is a businessman. I've corresponded with him a few times and he seems like a decent guy. It's unfortunate that it's hard to make an honest living as a module designer if you don't have all the skills to be a one-man operation.


All true. He grew beyond a one man operation and that is when the trouble started. Peter was a good dude. He got in over his head and it got weird/horrible.

I only have the Model 9 Mixer/Attenuators still. A little big for what it does, but it is a great design. Simple and clever.


so (just my own example) - harassing phone calls at work, many lies about having already fixed and shipped (!) an expensive item, incoherent rants accusing me of "almost sitting on" the item, etc (I'm forgetting, I'm sure, many of the details) are the marks of a "good dude"who is just bad at business?


Ha! You're the guy that sat on his milton lol
I spent a whole damn day reading through those old plan b threads. It's so ridiculous i just couldn't stop.

Where's your milton? Mr. Green
MindMachine
Nelson Baboon wrote:
so (just my own example) - harassing phone calls at work, many lies about having already fixed and shipped (!) an expensive item, incoherent rants accusing me of "almost sitting on" the item, etc (I'm forgetting, I'm sure, many of the details) are the marks of a "good dude"who is just bad at business?


Yes..., as I am sure that you witnessed in the many hours that you spent with him over the years, as his little joyful idea built into an untenable, ego fueled disaster for some. What can we say that history hasn't already?
Nelson Baboon
MindMachine wrote:
Nelson Baboon wrote:
so (just my own example) - harassing phone calls at work, many lies about having already fixed and shipped (!) an expensive item, incoherent rants accusing me of "almost sitting on" the item, etc (I'm forgetting, I'm sure, many of the details) are the marks of a "good dude"who is just bad at business?


Yes..., as I am sure that you witnessed in the many hours that you spent with him over the years, as his little joyful idea built into an untenable, ego fueled disaster. What can we say that history hasn't already?


i'm not sure what you mean, but one thing that we can do is not change history.
MindMachine
Nelson Baboon wrote:
MindMachine wrote:
Nelson Baboon wrote:
so (just my own example) - harassing phone calls at work, many lies about having already fixed and shipped (!) an expensive item, incoherent rants accusing me of "almost sitting on" the item, etc (I'm forgetting, I'm sure, many of the details) are the marks of a "good dude"who is just bad at business?


Yes..., as I am sure that you witnessed in the many hours that you spent with him over the years, as his little joyful idea built into an untenable, ego fueled disaster. What can we say that history hasn't already?


i'm not sure what you mean, but one thing that we can do is not change history.


Exactly. Just trying to point out that he is a person that was not suited for the success that his 'business' demanded. He does not resemble your avatar.
Nelson Baboon
MindMachine wrote:
Nelson Baboon wrote:
MindMachine wrote:
Nelson Baboon wrote:
so (just my own example) - harassing phone calls at work, many lies about having already fixed and shipped (!) an expensive item, incoherent rants accusing me of "almost sitting on" the item, etc (I'm forgetting, I'm sure, many of the details) are the marks of a "good dude"who is just bad at business?


Yes..., as I am sure that you witnessed in the many hours that you spent with him over the years, as his little joyful idea built into an untenable, ego fueled disaster. What can we say that history hasn't already?


i'm not sure what you mean, but one thing that we can do is not change history.


Exactly. Just trying to point out that he is a person that was not suited for the success that his 'business' demanded. He does not resemble your avatar.


i don't know what you are talking about. I don't resemble my avatar either....

but you appear to be trying to paint his nastiness, stealing, and lying, as simply mistakes. 'he got in over his head'. Bullshit. read those old threads.

no one is purely evil, or purely good. Those things don't exist unless you're religious.....but the way that you describe what he did to people is just blatant revisionism. sounds like you want to buy shit from him.
MindMachine
Nelson Baboon wrote:
MindMachine wrote:
Nelson Baboon wrote:
MindMachine wrote:
Nelson Baboon wrote:
so (just my own example) - harassing phone calls at work, many lies about having already fixed and shipped (!) an expensive item, incoherent rants accusing me of "almost sitting on" the item, etc (I'm forgetting, I'm sure, many of the details) are the marks of a "good dude"who is just bad at business?


Yes..., as I am sure that you witnessed in the many hours that you spent with him over the years, as his little joyful idea built into an untenable, ego fueled disaster. What can we say that history hasn't already?


i'm not sure what you mean, but one thing that we can do is not change history.


Exactly. Just trying to point out that he is a person that was not suited for the success that his 'business' demanded. He does not resemble your avatar.


i don't know what you are talking about. I don't resemble my avatar either....

but you appear to be trying to paint his nastiness, stealing, and lying, as simply mistakes. 'he got in over his head'. Bullshit. read those old threads.

no one is purely evil, or purely good. Those things don't exist unless you're religious.....but the way that you describe what he did to people is just blatant revisionism. sounds like you want to buy shit from him.


None of that at all in fact.

No excuses for what he did. Just pointing out what I experienced with him face to face as he ascended and descended.

That is all.
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