what is missing to a 300

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sabasan
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what is missing to a 300

Post by sabasan » Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:55 am

Hi.
Thinking that a full 300 is one of the best synth ever done
for functions in a small space
what are the missing function or modules?

wavemultiplier ?
voltage processing ?
comparators ?

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Roycie Roller
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Post by Roycie Roller » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:42 am

Tricky question...
I don't think Grant set out to cover EVERY kind of synthesis, but many modules can be patched in a way so that you can achieve multiple functions. If you study the .pdf manuals on
http://www.wiard.com
you will see what i mean.
I've often seen 300's alongside Blacet modules, and the two seem to compliment each other pretty well, ie. there are Blacet modules which cover synthesis methods that the Wiard won't do, and vice versa.

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sabasan
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Post by sabasan » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:14 am

I'm studying those pdf from years

simplifying my question....
If you have one full 300 which module you will add ?

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Roycie Roller
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Post by Roycie Roller » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:33 am

Ah, i misunderstood you sorry. What i would love to see is a delay of some kind- analog, but also capable of looping & frequency shifting. Add the capacity to load in your own samples. It has been done before elsewhere-but a 300 version would be nice.
How 'bout you? What would you like to see?

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sabasan
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Post by sabasan » Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:02 am

my question is still the first one, probably i simplified too much
naturally you can add everything.
I was talking more "inside the system"


but probably is just a stupid question

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Muff Wiggler
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Post by Muff Wiggler » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:03 am

i think, while there's no wave multiplier, the is somewhat of a wave folder/wave mangler/wave reprocessor in the Waveform City

while there's no voltage processor, there mixolator and the envelator can both process and mix CVs, as well as add lag, envelope following, etc.

and, yes no comparator but between sequantizer and envelator i think you can patch something similar up ( ? )

it doesn't feel like much is missing, in particular a 300 system with one of each, plus two envelators, two vcos, perhaps 2 sequantizers...

however the one thing I feel is missing, is similar to what Roycie was saying.... I always see Grant's comment that the Wiard incorporates 'basically every synthesis method ever'. Well, I think this is mostly true. However, one area that is skipped over is synthesis from sampling/resampling. I know this is not true synthesis, and is not something modulars have normally done. So I still think the comment about supporting "every feature of every modular in the past" is true - sampling doesn't count.

BUT, some sort of sampled waveform oscillator/looper/buffer tool would really be the icing on the cake.

The system is missing out on a lot of FX processing. As mentioned frequency shifter, delay, phaser, etc etc. Other than filtering, not many FX options. I don't think this was ever the intent of the system - the 300 is designed to make a lot of sounds, not modify a lot of sounds. But it's still a fair comment.

Finally, I really do wish that the envelators had a v/Oct tuning input, like the Bananalogue VCS does. That seems to be the big omission in the current archetecture I think.

Some banks of memory for the Sequantizer would be cool.

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Roycie Roller
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Post by Roycie Roller » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:19 am

Actually, this has got me wondering about programming Eproms for the Waveform City- can you load up audio samples? I don't see why you couldn't but it might translate as noise? I am not sure...
That could be infinite fun, creating your own eproms. Is it possible to create a Wave256 file and send it off somewhere to get programmed into the chip?

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Muff Wiggler
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Post by Muff Wiggler » Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:33 am

You can't put audio samples into the Miniwave, only the single cycle of a waveform

so, unless what you are trying to 'sample' is very, very short (ie. one hz), you are going to need to use a LOT of MW waves and banks, and control scanning through them in a scaled speed, just to capture the shortest piece of audio - pretty much an option only in theory, not very practical. I see it as a bank of waveshapes, not a bank of samples....

I've thought about creating my own ROMs, but consider the VAST number of waveshapes I have in the ten ROMs I currently have, I don't really see much point. I don't know if there's commerical companies who will burn images for you - but probably anyone who owns a ROM burner would be willing to do it if you let them have a copy of your ROM.

I think a burner is about $300, after you have this - I think blank ROMs are pennies each

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Kwote
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Post by Kwote » Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:56 pm

i think what wiard doesn't cover is covered elsewhere. that's the joy of the modular world. i don't see a big need for anything new or whatever but i'd still like to see a dual noisering in 300 format even if it's almost impossible to implement. also i agree with muff on the 1v oct for the envelator. if that was included there'd be little need to own the bananalogue VCS' other than not wanting to tie up the envelator for smaller functions.
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Post by thermionicjunky » Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:07 pm

Isn't the Hylander vowel chip based on vocal samples? You could break your sample up into little bits, like the Doepfer sampler in wavetable mode.

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plord
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Post by plord » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:42 pm

Muff Wiggler wrote:i think, while there's no wave multiplier, the is somewhat of a wave folder/wave mangler/wave reprocessor in the Waveform City
You can do all kinds of wave multiplication/rectification/bit munging in the WFC with the right ROM. The possibilities are in fact endless. You can also get some AWESOME nasty distortion running the Sequantizer at audio rates. There are a few examples of this in my Wiard tips file.
while there's no voltage processor, there mixolator and the envelator can both process and mix CVs, as well as add lag, envelope following, etc.
The...wait for it...Sequantizer can also be used as an envelope follower. Also, saying the Mixolator can process CVs is like saying Michael Phelps swims kinda fast.
and, yes no comparator but between sequantizer and envelator i think you can patch something similar up ( ? )
I'm positive you could patch this up with those two modules, but the crossfaders in the Envelator really do a much better job for anything I might think to use a comparator for :) Plus you can chain them, so you can pull N+1 trigger points off of a moving voltage for every N Envelators.
However, one area that is skipped over is synthesis from sampling/resampling.
It's not clear to me, even with multiple discussions, that the Envelooper won't give this functionality if it reaches the market. Grant has mentioned that he prototype can record input from joysticks, sequencers, etc. If that's true, and it can be clocked from audio rates...well there you go.
The system is missing out on a lot of FX processing. As mentioned frequency shifter, delay, phaser, etc etc. \
Correct, no delay, no freq shift. But the Mixolator makes a perfect VC panner. and the Omni Filter or "The Filter" from the original system, has an all pass mode that makes a KILLER phaser right at the edge of resonance. It even has the pseudo-stereo out.

What would I add? When Grant asked this very question on the Wiard list, I asked for a comprehensive clock source/clock divider/clock multiplier/logic/switch. Now that I've got the ClockWork, I no longer need this module :)

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