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r frac and euro friends
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Fractional Rack Modules Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author r frac and euro friends
could i use my euro set up with a frac system?
is it safe to split my purchases of the necessary bread and butter modules between both systems and use them together or are there limits to there pairing due to voltage?
would i need a blacet 2225 I/O module ?
if i get a metalbox matrix mixer can i use my euro and frac with it ?

thnx ahead of time
any help appreciatd
I believe it's just that some frac vca's require 10V to fully open, and euro usually only has a puny little 5V to open their girly vca's.

frac uses +/- 15v
euro uses +/- 12v

if you are aware of the power requirements of each system (and have the means to house/power modules) , that is the biggest difference. the modules themselves work pretty well together. the frac form factor is different (and well documented) from euro. they don't happily occupy the same rails/case. there are some weird things with voltage between modules but it'll all be fine. read the manuals and ask specific questions (or rather use the search function to avoid reinventing the wheel). any designer making the modules will likely be more than happy to clear up any confusion. what modules are you looking at/do you have? you wouldn't need and I/O necessarily at all to patch between systems. hell, they each even use 1/8" jacks.

picard says 'make it so!'

feel free to pm if you want. i or many other of the multi format systems users would gladly talk to you i am sure

hope that answers some of your questions...
i intend on having seperate housing/power modules for each system
it was more about there being weird things with voltage between modules

i have a pretty complete 6u eurocase filled with wiard/malekko, make noise and stg but i'm missing a mixer, mults and attenuators and seeing as how i just picked up two bugbrand modules and blacet research started up there company on my birth year i thought why not get some frac

so um m i did read threw a ton of threads but nothing was specific enough maybe i should of used advanced search ? anyways there was lots of talk about people using both systems and hints at what modules might let you take advantage of one or the other system but i think all the basic abc talk was done in secret

i picked up a bugbrand BugCrusher and DualVCA and wanted to add MetalboX Matrix Mixer, VC Divider and Gated Comparator

everybody wants a blacet miniwave, i wouldn't mind a vco and i wasn't sure if i'd rather a binary zone or hex zone i like the hex zone font better than the binary depending on that choice i'd have room for either a window comparator or an EG1 maybe both if i kick out the vco and stick with the binary zone


(feel free to pm if you want. i or many other of the multi format systems users would gladly talk to you i am sure) smile thnx

don't forget to feed the lurkers
yah, i realize now ..
i should of mentioned i was aware of the power requirements and size issues it wasn't a matter of cramming it all into one magic box
although some people are managing just that
but not me .. for now..
i just want to know to what extent these seperate systems can work together and what the limitations might be
they'll work together just fine, but, if you take a look at the Dual VCA page on the BugBrand site, you'll see its intended to work with a 0-10V CV, not many (if any) Euro modules (EGs) will output that much voltage as Euro VCAs expect a 0-5V CV.

Other than that, go for it. Bacet has a bunch of unique modules - I wouldn't pick between the Hex & the Binary Zone based on font tho, they are very differant beasts. The BZ can be CV or Gate sequencer, an LFO, a frequency divider, depending on how you use it.
Basically you can run CVs, trigger/gate signals and audio from Frac to Euro and the other way round w/outh any problems.

Yet their's no rule w/out exception. However you can handle any exception you just need to be aware of them.

- Some early version of logic modules by Doepfer (e.g. switches) could be dstroyed by the output level of Blacet's Freq Div. I don't think it is an issue with any module currently in production but you might want search the Doepfer-Yahoo-Group on this.

- As mentioned above Blacet VCAs want 10V to fully open but this can changend. Either build any VCA for 5v or ask John to do it. OTOH Blacet's EG (like Anaolgue Systems ADSR) output up to +/-10V while the typically Euro VCA only asks for 5V. You'll need an attentuator for best results.

- Trigger/gate threshold will vary you might face rare situations were you won't be able to trigger Frac stuff with a Euro trigger just bcs. the output level is to low. Back then I had quite some Doepfer modules next to my Frac stuff. One specific Doepfer module's trigger output needed a little amplification to trigger a Blacet module. I could solve this by running the signal throgh a Doepfer Trigger Delay.

- The good news is: You won't destroy anything since any make uses parts which can handle at least +/-15V (some parts will happily accept 63V or even more). The only exception are the above mentioned logic modules bcs. some ot their inputs are more sensitive.
I hope that these help in answering your question. One thing is that the discontinued Blacet Quad Mix VCA is normally set to fully open its VCAs with +10V. Most Euro Gates and EGs won't do this. However, in the back of the Quad Mix manual, the modification is given to make the change to standard (ish) Euro +5V.

hhm cool ! thnx DGTom and
BIG thnx dude!
and e-grad and Kent
and i guess you were right panda30y
but i already had a bunch of girly euro vca's in my box anyway
so i'll just have to find something in frac that can take advantage of my
new bugbrand dual vca

i'm pretty new to modulars so if anyone can think of something
any recommendations taking into consideration the above mentioned choices if you have the time i'd very much appreciate it

my euro rack is pretty complete so this is more about audio/control and more control and maybe take advantage of some frac audio since i have the vca's ?

I'll have two racks of space to get the best of what frac has to offer ..

also does anybody know anything about the gated comparator ? it seems interesting ..
along with the binary zone this should offer me enough sequencing possibilities maybe a midiverter smile
Frac and Euro modules work together just fine, as everyone has said. Frac and Euro owners however are bitter mortal enemies! Fencing
parasitk wrote:
Frac and Euro modules work together just fine, as everyone has said. Frac and Euro owners however are bitter mortal enemies! Fencing

That is very true, but Kent and I just hate everyone I guess. That's how we manage both.

The only issue is VCA one and Maths will open the Quadmix VCA. screaming goo yo

Blacet makes some great modules. I wouldn't be without them. Also as you know, Bugbrand has some extremely interesting stuff.

The window comparator from Blacet is great. I have two.

Guinness ftw!
Nice system! screaming goo yo
thanks. headbang
How do you deal with all the self hatred? seriously, i just don't get it

I beat myself nightly.
Blacet VCO is fantastic, but there are so many more options in euro for VCO's that I'm unsure if it's worthwhile for you to get one depending on how much space you'll be dedicating to frac.

Don't forget about Metalbox, because he makes some fantastic modules such as the gated comparator, which I haven't used (built) yet, but it seems to have huge potential, and I know that mono-poly has raved w00t about it in the past.

I actually like euro, just doesn't fit into my plans. I would take advantage of the more unique options in frac, such as the binary zone, mini-wave, and the many cgs builds of metalbox. Also, encore has a frequency shifter and metalbox has great drum modules and sequencing options.
yes+ on metalbox. he is fantastic. i am about to place another order with him!
can i unrelatedly say that the old 5u encore freq shift is a ton more attractive than the frac one.
thnx parasitk
yah nice system Cybananna it's large + good info on the maths
bugbrand ++

i've got two anti-oscillators and a wogglebug + other stuff that can make noise
i'm a gonna start with one frac rac try to stop at two
i really wanted MetalboX it all looks nice in blue
i'm glad to here everyone is so into MetalboX i wanted to get
a Matrix Mixer, VC Divider and Gated Comparator what else is good

? is using hardware drums and synths with a frac or euro a simple thing
oh go with blue go with blue go with blue. i am getting an 8008 in 5u in blue and i have a 5x5 cgs matrix mixer in blue. they are among the prettiest modules i have seen. his work is fucking awesome!
all blue- i wonder if he could cut me some panels for the blacet modules i don't need the info on em i could keep the blacet faceplates make a small metal booklet
if you haven't already, i would contact him and tell him your ideal, he may even have some ideas of his own. you can see a bunch of his custom work on his site. really nice stuff.
I've sent the email
smile thnx dude
your enthusiasticness is a nice help

i hope MetalboX is into helping guide a newb if he plays his cards right
i might end up with a giant blue MetalboX
Cybananna wrote:

That is very true, but Kent and I just hate everyone I guess. That's how we manage both.

We're Bi-Polar. At least that's how we're biased!
Eel Power FTW! Eel Power FTW! Eel Power FTW! Eel Power FTW! Eel Power FTW! Eel Power FTW!
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