MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index
 FAQ & Terms of UseFAQ & Terms Of Use   Wiggler RadioMW Radio   Muff Wiggler TwitterTwitter   Support the site @ PatreonPatreon 
 SearchSearch   RegisterSign up   Log inLog in 
WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Information
Happy holidays! Please see the year-end funding drive post in the Announcements subforum. Thanks and all my love to you beautiful people.

[BUILD] RYO Logic Modules
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next [all]
Author [BUILD] RYO Logic Modules
Monobass
Build docs coming soon

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/ryo-discrete-xnor-xor-not
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/ryo-dual-discrete-nor-or
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/ryo-dual-discrete-nand-and

makers
Great, I've been looking forward to this one.
euromorcego
thumbs up

will there also be a panel/pcb option?
stabilt
panel/pcb option will come in the second factory batch!
Jack Gull
This is fun!
I'm not sure of which one i want to start with
is it possible to see the schematic? my interest would be in audio/waveform modulation (also overdrive with crazy wavefolding because screw you clipping diodes. i have you. give me two free transistor stages any day) and having an idea of what the circuit is would help
Monobass
M-Circus
My head is hurting after trying to figure out what exactly these three can be used for, eve if I get the basic concept of logic modules. Think I'll have to wait for Ben's videos (which I'm sure are coming).
billsship
M-Circus wrote:
My head is hurting after trying to figure out what exactly these three can be used for, eve if I get the basic concept of logic modules. Think I'll have to wait for Ben's videos (which I'm sure are coming).


Ha, I was thinking the same thing! Divkid, where u at?
I'm stuck at the same problem- which one do I need? Also looking for audio modulation and clipping.
Jack Gull
these should be RTL logic. look for the circuits online wink
i'll go with xor + not for starting.. i'd like to see how it behaves with ring modulation.. and not it basically a common emitter with high gain. and the lack of clipping diodes leave the transistor to operate freely as crazy wavefolder, if fed with enough current
SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger!
e-grad
M-Circus wrote:
My head is hurting after trying to figure out what exactly these three can be used for, eve if I get the basic concept of logic modules.


Just have a glance at Doepfer's A-166 manual. Especially at the truth table on page 3.
http://www.doepfer.de/a100_man/a166_man.pdf
Jack Gull
but these are probably different. these aren't cmos chips. these are bjts and resistors so voltage ranges and nonlinearities are much different
HeWhoWantsJeans
I'm so excited that these came out. I bought one of each and can't wait to build 'em. thumbs up
ben_hex
Haha billsship I'm here ... With a video not too far around the corner. I've been struggling with various "workloads" all of this year to be honest so I'm a bit behind. Got these though and videos will be done as soon as I can. Trying to juggle things with release dates (didn't know this was coming out right now) to be priority.

You'll all habe to buy a sequencer and trig xpamder to play with them they look very good together. hihi
falafelbiels
Jack Gull wrote:
but these are probably different. these aren't cmos chips. these are bjts and resistors so voltage ranges and nonlinearities are much different


That shouldn't matter with regards to functionality should it?

And which one to choose is easy, all of them of course!
JakeE
Feel like I need a couple or all three of these to go with my other RYO stuff but I also don't really understand what does what, so i need some help. I think I need some logic in my system and these are probably the best way to start and I want to do some soldering.
Quite Surprised there isn't a dummies guide to logic on here.
Jarno
Do these have Schmitt trigger inputs?
euromorcego
Quote:
... but I also don't really understand what does what

well, it's written on them. All you need to do is ask google. The three options are AND, OR, and XOR.
AND: output gate goes high when all inputs are high.
OR: output gate goes high when at least one of the inputs are high.
XOR is exclusive OR: high when one but not all of the inputs are high.
'high'= voltage above some threshold.
Each module has two sections and always also outputs the inverse (NOT AND = NAND, NOR = NOT OR, the XOR module also as an inverter included).

If going for just one, then XOR (exclusive OR) is most interesting. The OR you can always mimic with a mixer (or even multiple). If you add/mix gates it basically corresponds to a logic OR. AND you can mimic with a VCA: One gate as signal one gate as VCA-CV, the output corresponds to logic AND.

I would also be interested how they go for audio inputs. Should work fine, i assume. For audio XOR is also the most interesting.

The next in line would indeed be a flip-flop of some kind, then you have the full set of logic modules available.
bartleby
JakeE wrote:
Quite Surprised there isn't a dummies guide to logic on here.

did you have a look at the doepfer manual that e-grad linked to above? it's exactly what you're looking for...
bartleby
falafelbiels wrote:
Jack Gull wrote:
but these are probably different. these aren't cmos chips. these are bjts and resistors so voltage ranges and nonlinearities are much different


That shouldn't matter with regards to functionality should it?

i think his comment was supposed to be funny, right? like one of those jokes about wooden side panels adding warmth to a synth's sound?
euromorcego
bartleby wrote:
wooden side panels adding warmth to a synth's sound?

But they do! Definitely.

As for the chips: for classic logic it doesn't matter. But when abusing the module with audio signals then different implementation might indeed make a difference. No clue about cmos but some logic modules (not these) work with programmed chips which is quite a different thing from discrete electronics.
Jack Gull
falafelbiels wrote:
Jack Gull wrote:
but these are probably different. these aren't cmos chips. these are bjts and resistors so voltage ranges and nonlinearities are much different


That shouldn't matter with regards to functionality should it?

And which one to choose is easy, all of them of course!


Yes, they can work as normal logic modules if you use the correct voltages (aka drive the transistors into saturation) but why limit to it? that's not the point of the module.
no i wasn't trying to be funny.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistor%E2%80%93transistor_logic
if they really are RTL (should be), for example, a single transistor NOR gate is a common emitter amplifier..
this seems to be a great opportunity for crazy modulation. something that i wanted to try for a while (discrete logic with audio signals.. and not the usual CMOS as amplifier)

EDIT: yup. i remembered correctly. expand your mind
stabilt
The NOR is a multi transistor RTL NOR gate. I hope that will be pleasing as well. If there is demand we could make a second NOR version later on with the single transistor type for a different audio character.

They do not have schmitt triggers. That would make them behave close to CMOS logics.

One sweetspot for audio is attenuating down the audio signal to a Vpp within the transistor threshold window (like 5-10% volume max) and then offset it +2 volts or so to hit the threshold. Then you should find a soft transistor saturation and a little tweaking of the offset and attenuation changes the character and can go to massive clipping. Add signals to more inputs and play with them too. Add a gate or square source to gate the audio on and off.

The logics are tested with BC547B but it should work with any BC547. Also 2N3904 if you mount them mirrored to the silk screen. And if you feel like some pin acrobatics C945 should also work well as other generic bjt but watch out for the pin placements on different bjt.

The XOR also use one PNP per XOR that helps stabilizing the threshold point for the inputs. One XOR is made out of four NANDs.

We will publish the schematics in connection to the release of the panel/PCB option or before.

A simple example for logic is to patch a clock signal to one input of an AND and a gate to the other input. The gate will now control if the clock signal is passed through or not. You can do a lot more fun with clock signals and they can play a key role creating random, pseudorandom or generative gates or trigs and much much more.
falafelbiels
Mind expanded but it hurts. Not too many HPs left I think...
calaveras
I'd be interested in 1 PBC/Panel per each, when available.
I'm starting to reach a point where I may have all my modules finished soon and might have to actually start fixing broken stuff.
Can't have that.
stabilt
If the PCB manufacturer hold their promise of delivery before the chineese spring festival it wont be long for PCB/Panel option.

Some schematics:
NAND/AND
NOR/OR
XNOR/XOR/NOT

Assembly manuals:
NAND/AND 1.5MB
NOR/OR 1.5MB
XNOR/XOR/NOT 1.7MB
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next [all]
Page 1 of 3
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group