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Saving Sequences
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Volta  
Author Saving Sequences
nomass
I've just started using Volta with Live and was messing around with the step and trigger sequencers. When I closed and saved my session in Live and came back to it later, the sequencers hadn't saved the note and timing information. The Volta was still associated with the right track, but I had to reset all those tiny note sliders.

Surely there is a way to save your work. I feel like I missing something obvious.

Bryan
MrBiggs
Yeah that don't seem right.

I'll try to take a look at mine today and see what it does. Amazingly, after setting up a Volta instance in a set I've never reopened any of them. I just get it cracking, bounce the audio, and delete the Volta so I can later work on it without the stupid iLok.
Stay tuned.
nomass
Yeah, my interface and laptop almost plummeted to the floor because of the damnable iLok.


Bryan
emergencyofstate
you guys do know that you just have to have the iLok in for a second when the plugin launches then you can pull it right out and get it the F out of your computer?

I ask cause I left the iLok in for the first 2 weeks or so of using Volta till I was like "duh" smile
nomass
You, emergencyofstate, have improved my life immeasurably.
emergencyofstate
screaming goo yo screaming goo yo screaming goo yo
MrBiggs
Yeah me too emergencyofstate. I'm not barfing all the time now.

nomass, back to your question. You're part right. Here's what I got when I tried it. I have a template I made with the five Volta tracks set up, so when I wanna use it I just pull it up. Blank Volta.
So, if I save a project with that template called whatever, "volta test" it saves a project now. Whatever settings I did with Volta before saving the file are now saved with Volta. Good. Now if I do something like add a trigger or make some changes to a Step Seq or anything, LIVE doesn't seem to recognize anything has been done to ITS PROJECT. So a SAVE doesn't do anything. If I make those Volta changes and then, say, nudge the volume on a track or anything else in Live, and THEN save, it seems to save the most recent state of the Volta AU along with the project. See what I'm saying here?
But again, if I did nothing but change Volta, Live doesn't save that.

Now what I might do is make use of the AU presets and saving just the Volta state. If you get something going you like, click the save icon on the Volta plug GUI (the little Ableton X/Y interface, not Volta itself) and save that sucker. You can save over or make new ones. Dumb workaround but it works. Glad you brought this up. It doesn't seem very often that I'd make changes to Volta without changing anything else in my Live set, but it could happen.

By the way, I find that this behavior is consistent with other AU plugs as well. I didn't try VSTs, but changes made only to plug ins don't save by themselves. But when Live has something else to save, they get covered. Odd.

Brian
felix
MrBiggs wrote:
By the way, I find that this behavior is consistent with other AU plugs as well. I didn't try VSTs, but changes made only to plug ins don't save by themselves. But when Live has something else to save, they get covered. Odd.

If it's happening with other AUs, it either means that those AUs are all doing something dumb, or there's a bug in Live. Any plugin change should flag the document (session) as dirty and thus allow you to save.
MrBiggs
felix wrote:
MrBiggs wrote:
By the way, I find that this behavior is consistent with other AU plugs as well. I didn't try VSTs, but changes made only to plug ins don't save by themselves. But when Live has something else to save, they get covered. Odd.

If it's happening with other AUs, it either means that those AUs are all doing something dumb, or there's a bug in Live. Any plugin change should flag the document (session) as dirty and thus allow you to save.


Interesting. I tried a couple things and mostly you're right. The issue arises only (as far as I know) when one is punching in notes in sequencers. I used Audio Damage's Tattoo and Sonic Charge's MicroTonic. Turning knobs did flag the session as dirty, as you say, but using the sequencers in both plug ins (both AU and VST versions) did not. So I could see how this relates to the original post about step sequencers and triggers in Volta, since they are essentially sequencers same as the ones in Tattoo and MicroTonic. I can open a previously saved session, change the sequences, and close the session without Live telling me to save. Then when the session is reopened the changes I made are not there.
Any knob turning or any other kind of change in a plug forced me to save before I could close the set.

I'd like to know if this is the same in other DAWs. Thanks Felix.
os
From a technical standpoint, it probably relates to the difference between parameters and properties.

A 'parameter' is a regular numeric control in a plug-in. In Live, these are the things that you can use Live's MIDI CC mapping for.

A 'property' is everything else, usually used by developers when the data is in some very specific form unique to the plug-in, which doesn't map well to simple numeric values. I imagine sequence data would fall into that category for many plug-ins.

The VST and AU specs have special handling for parameters, including ways for the plug-in to tell the host that you've moved a knob or whatever. AU's have ways of notifying on property changes, but Live may not be listening for them.

Just my 2c. Obviously in the case of the specific plug-ins under discussion I'm just guessing since I don't own them.
felix
Yep, I think os has got it. These sequences are plugin properties and this do not have a specific parameter associated with them.

If you have Live 8, you should be able to test this very easily. Load up the plugin and then click the little disclosure arrow in the top of the "generic plugin" block UI that Live shows. It should fold out a section and you likely won't see any parameters, but you will see a "Configure" button**. Click it. Then click anywhere in the plugin's sequencer. If what os said is correct, you should not see any parameters added down in the folded-out plugin block. Now, click a control on the plugin that does flag the file as dirty and allow you to save...you should see that control's parameter show up down in the plugin block.

**as of Live 8, whenever a plugin has "a lot" (I forget the number... >16) of parameters, Live hides them for your convenience meh. But you can set them to view by clicking the Configure button and then clicking the appropriate control on the plugin UI to get it to show up.
MrBiggs
That feature in Live 8 was the reason I upgraded.
That problem has made me I N S A N E previously, especially with the ensembles in Reaktor, especially with the home made ensembles that aren't correctly assigned and numbered. Now I have presets of all my favorite ensembles with these parameters set up. Anyway, OT, but still. It's like candy for me.

So I wish that Stretta or someone could confirm this, but we're fairly certain now that that is what causes this yes? I don't have my Volta iLok here with me tonight and with our snow day tomorrow I won't be at the studio mostly likely. But I am pretty certain that this is what nomass was running into.
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