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BETA Buchla Firmware Utility 1.6.7
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Buchla, EMS & Serge Goto page Previous  1, 2 [all]
Author BETA Buchla Firmware Utility 1.6.7
darrenji
Leoespejo wrote:

- First i guess, if there's a 225e in the system it should be disconnected from any MIDI device, to avoid conflicts.


You definitely don't want clock coming into the 200e from multiple sources. If you can send only notes to the 225e, and clock to the card, they would both work.

Leoespejo wrote:

- Is there any way to route the MIDI signal ?


channels 1/2/3/4 map to busses A/B/C/D
mirf59
Leoespejo wrote:

I've tried sending two MIDI clips at the same time from Live but the system only showed up one, that was being received on 281e in bus A1, which was receiving MIDI note on messages, and 259e in bus A, which was receiving MIDI pitch, obviously all my 281e's where set up for receiving MIDI messages.


Later, leoespejo suggests that he was able to get pitch information from multiple MIDI clips to the 200e using different MIDI channels.

This seems to conflict with most of the discussion in this thread, which talks about the connection transmitting only note on/off and clock info.

In the interests of clarifying what, if anything, the 225e is needed for with respect to the provision of MIDI information to the 200e in light of the existence of the Buchla USB card, could someone please answer:

Once a MIDI connection is established from MIDI sending device (laptop, etc.), through the Buchla USB card, into the 200e -- is all MIDI information, including pitch information, passed on through the USB card or only information of a certain type?

The confusing part of this for me relates to my admittedly somewhat primitive understanding of what is contained in a MIDI message. To my knowledge, a MIDI message contains a header indicating what kind of information is contained within (control, velocity, etc.), the MIDI channel, the MIDI value, etc.

If the Buchla USB card transmits MIDI messages, why would it filter certain messages of certain types (pitch, control), passing only a subset? Seems like that would add extra cost to the card and limit its use. Hard to imagine the card wouldn't just pass through what it receives, just like any other USB device, once a connection between sending and receiving device has been established.

Simply put, a pipe is a pipe.
darrenji
mirf59 wrote:
If the Buchla USB card transmits MIDI messages, why would it filter certain messages of certain types (pitch, control), passing only a subset?


There are many types of MIDI messages, but the USB card passes only Clock and Note On/Off to the 200e internal bus. This is because 200e modules, in terms of the internal I2C implementation of MIDI, don't respond to anything except Note messages (which consist of a channel, a pitch, and a velocity), and clock messages.

The bandwidth of USB is enormous compared to the I2C bus, so the card filters out everything else so as to not saturate the 200e with messages that no module can use.

You can certainly use the USB card to send 4 independent streams on MIDI channels 1,2,3,4 which will be mapped in the 200e to buses A,B,C,D. And you can send MIDI clock for sync. But everything else (e.g. pressure and controller messages) will not be passed to the 200e. This may change in the future if new modules are released that respond to other types of MIDI messages.

The 225e does the same sort of mapping of Note On/Off on the A/B/C/D internal busses, but adds UI for things like selecting which MIDI channels are mapped to which internal busses. Also the 225e gives you MIDI to CV conversion for 4 more note busses, and 6 controller busses, and it implements polyphony if you enable that feature.

Hope that helps,
Darren
mirf59
darrenji wrote:
mirf59 wrote:
If the Buchla USB card transmits MIDI messages, why would it filter certain messages of certain types (pitch, control), passing only a subset?


There are many types of MIDI messages, but the USB card passes only Clock and Note On/Off to the 200e internal bus. This is because 200e modules, in terms of the internal I2C implementation of MIDI, don't respond to anything except Note messages (which consist of a channel, a pitch, and a velocity), and clock messages.

The bandwidth of USB is enormous compared to the I2C bus, so the card filters out everything else so as to not saturate the 200e with messages that no module can use.

You can certainly use the USB card to send 4 independent streams on MIDI channels 1,2,3,4 which will be mapped in the 200e to buses A,B,C,D. And you can send MIDI clock for sync. But everything else (e.g. pressure and controller messages) will not be passed to the 200e. This may change in the future if new modules are released that respond to other types of MIDI messages.

The 225e does the same sort of mapping of Note On/Off on the A/B/C/D internal busses, but adds UI for things like selecting which MIDI channels are mapped to which internal busses. Also the 225e gives you MIDI to CV conversion for 4 more note busses, and 6 controller busses, and it implements polyphony if you enable that feature.

Hope that helps,
Darren


Excellent. Thank you. Any plans to add the transmission of preset information? If you have a USB port, seems like the preset manager functionality could be accomplished via software that resides on an external device as well and which sends the same information in the same language to the modules as is currently transmitted by the preset manager.

The benefit, I guess, would be the potential to obviate the need for a MIDI to CV for MIDI note info to the busses, and also the need for a present manager module. This would make the system more accessible to more people, and free up cherished real estate for other modules.
ttown23
So I've read through this thread and am kinda stumped on something. If it is true that the USB card AND the 225e only pass clock and note on/off messages, how is it that Richard Lainhart was able to use his Haken Continuum with his 200e system WITHOUT the use of the CVC? This was the last iteration of the system that he used prior to his untimely death.
Leoespejo
ttown23 wrote:
So I've read through this thread and am kinda stumped on something. If it is true that the USB card AND the 225e only pass clock and note on/off messages, how is it that Richard Lainhart was able to use his Haken Continuum with his 200e system WITHOUT the use of the CVC? This was the last iteration of the system that he used prior to his untimely death.


I'd say Richard used the CVC, I have seen videos (can't search for the link now, but its on youtube) where he talks about his setup.

I can't imagine other way to do the things he used to do, other than Expert Sleepers maybe, which didn't exist at the moment.
mirf59
I gave up trying to get MIDI into the 200e via the Buchla USB Card using a windows-based system.

Lessons Learned:
+ A preset manager is required.
+ Do not install or remove the Buchla USB card while the 200e is on. If you do, go through a cycle of install, power up, power down, remove to re-set the card to its proper state.
+ If you have a Boops cabinet, you may have to put the preset manager in the middle boat. The DC voltage on the i2C bus may be below the 5V standard, which may or may not contribute to issues you may experience.

Thanks to Darren at BEMI, Alex at BEMI, Leo Espejo, missingtwin, Roman, batchas, and Boops who were helpful through my failed attempts.
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