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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

What outboard would you consider essential
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Production Techniques  
Author What outboard would you consider essential
bratley
For those that work OTB, what outboard compressors, EQs etc would you say are essential for electronic music production
felixer
bratley wrote:
electronic music production

that's a tad wide, definition-wise hihi it really depends ... are you doing new age or gabber lol

for almost any sort of mixing job some decent reverb is essential.
what mixingdesk do you use? maybe you already have enough eq's ...
do you want/need to change the sounds drastically? maybe look at more suitable instruments first? always get the sources right first ...

or do you want to experiment and are looking for drastically different colours? in that case almost everything can be useful. tons of very colourful stompboxes around for small change ... getting s/h gear is easy&cheap so don't be afraid to try things out and sell 'm on is it doesn't click.

for electronic music i seldom need outboard because i can make it sound good at the source. just a bit of desk eq and some multibandcompression at the end. reverb only to place thing in space. i'm using a tc finalizer and reverb. yamaha spx and some alesis boxes are also around.
for individual compression i might use a dbx 160 or maybe an aphex compellor. slightly more colourful are tla and art valve boxes.

i also have some vintage gear but i wouldn't recommend to start with that. not only can it be expensive to get but also a pita to keep it going, so unless you really know what you want i'd stick with newer gear of decent origin.
but no need to pay crazy prices on hyped/name devices unless you are absolutely sure that it can't be avoided Mr. Green
stk
Yeah, really depends on your goals.

I've gone back to using mostly hardware lately, and I'd say my "must haves" are:

1) a mixer with a decent amount of channels, sends and EQ bands,
2) a few characterful delays and/or reverbs (for me that would be dm-300, re-201, quadraverb),
3) a really interesting character piece or two, to keep it fun (sherman filterbank, t-resonator)

Cheers
bratley
Sorry, it was a bit of a general question .
I have a mixer, a few compressors etc

I meant is there any outboard you consider essential, ie Distressor, Pultec EQ
Etc
moremagic
i use the moog mf 101 to make everything just a little dirtier, a whole lotta fun
nuromantix
Essential? None of it.
I love having a bunch of effects around, from cheapo to fairly high-end but none of it's essential. You can make a dance record on an MPC and an experimental jam on a small modular.
memes_33
for me, a halfway decent compressor with sidechain inputs for pumping effects, and a decent preamp to interface with (i go modular>passive DI>preamp to record).
stk
Essential? Depends on the task at hand and your desired results.

Like .i said, I'd really not like to be without my analogue delays, but hey I lived without them for almost a year between proper studios, so I can cope.

It's art - none of it is essential, unless it is for you, and then nothing else will do.
tron23
Bel BD-80 gets a lot of use, especially on the modular with it's CV connectivity.
stressstest
For me, essential would be anything I feel I can't do within the computer, where post processing is both cheaper and more more efficient.
Right now I have an Ensinoq DP/4 and a Boss RPS 10. The Boss allows me to do quasi granular stuff with its delay hold and pitch shifting capabilities, as well as pitch shifting better than any plug in I've yet to find. The Ensoniq gives me wonderfully grainy 80's digital effects, especially the reverbs.
If I had a spring reverb, a tape echo, or an Eventide, I'm sure I'd consider those essential as well.
But the most essential outboard of all, is, of course, my modular cool
leeski
mixer > valve eq > ssl compressor (but i have a clone)

this stack makes stuff good

space echo & tape machine as delay
felixer
bratley wrote:
I meant is there any outboard you consider essential, ie Distressor, Pultec EQ
Etc

NO. those are NOT essential devices. whatever some may say ... a good compressor prob is but there are many that work just fine and some that work better in some cases. just like eq. THERE IS NO DEVICE THAT WILL MAKE EVERYTHING SOUND BETTER. sorry for the shouting but please don't be fooled and spend a lot of money on something that is just a luxury item.
eg the distressor is really good at heavy compression. you can really slam a signal untill the meters stop moving. for advertising voice-overs you may need that. for music it's a matter of taste. personelly i don't like it. for voices i usually use an spl channelstrip which sounds much more natural ...

the only essential parts are a recorder and a mixer. and since everything you do will go past those it pays to get the best quality you can afford. a lot of problems like shrill highs, boomy lows, fuzzy mids, lumpy/undefined mixes will dissapear if your basic gear is good. for acoustic stuff get really good mics. get good cables. and make sure you have good speakers in a good room. this is prob the most difficult and expensive part but absolutely essential because otherwise you don't know what you are doing in the first place.
Barfunkel
bratley wrote:

I meant is there any outboard you consider essential, ie Distressor, Pultec EQ
Etc


While I'd love to have on of those, or other high quality outboard, they aren't essential. Great releases have been made with nothing but a drum machine, a few cheap (at the time) synths and some old mixer, whatever was cheap and available at the time.
stk
Plus one on that ^

I'd hazard a guess that far more groundbreaking music has been made with whatever is available, than with the cream of the (rich man's) crop.
h4ndcrafted
For me sound source, if you can get a piece of equipment that doesn't need much messing with, you get to retain what you love about it, without making compromises in the mix.

Also having a bunch of intruments that compliment each other well.

I don't really get o with itb sat/distortion since I heard certain hardware units either.
Gringo Starr
bratley wrote:
THERE IS NO DEVICE THAT WILL MAKE EVERYTHING SOUND BETTER.


Are you sure? razz

http://chandlerlimited.com/curve-bender/
m0rb1d
Gringo Starr wrote:


Are you sure? razz

http://chandlerlimited.com/curve-bender/

Very good point you have there!
Another good point was that nothing is essential. I think we get caught up in brand names pretty heavily sometimes.

That being said, belief is a really crazy thing. When you actually obtain something like a Pultec EQ, your brain already has all of that excitement and creative momentum going, making it easier and more inspiring to create things with it. Does it really sound "better"? Fuck yes it does. It might not to literally every other person on the planet, but the fact that you believe that while using the tool really adds something to the intention and creative process. It's not the gear, but the inspiration the gear gives you.
leeski
i'm not quite a believer that cheap stuff makes good tracks.
Most stufff which has been ground breaking was recorded & mixed in studios
Limited analog studio stuff can do good but even those 4 tracks cassette cost a lot in the day
Morley
A good Mixer
Eventide H3000 D/SE
felixer
Gringo Starr wrote:
Quote:
THERE IS NO DEVICE THAT WILL MAKE EVERYTHING SOUND BETTER.


Are you sure? razz

http://chandlerlimited.com/curve-bender/

yes i am very sure Mr. Green the only exception being a volume booster since most people find the louder version of a sound better ... so anything that makes a signal louder will appear an improvement. that is until you've applied that 'special sauce' to all the signals and you are clipping the master lol

so, if anything a well set up bus compressor ... what the finalizer does for me very well is make everything appear twice as loud without changing the sound itself.

the chandler looks like yer typical 'vintage hype' box. i'm sure it's a fine eq and it 'll sound a bit different from others and if you feel great owning one maybe you will work better but it's def not essential. and for certain jobs (like getting rid of some noise/resonance) it might not work as well as a more modern design. and, incredible as it may sound, not everybody likes those 60ies records meh
Gringo Starr
If Slayer recorded an album and used a Curve Bender I guarantee you no one would think it sounded like the 60's. That way of thinking would imply that anyone playing with a Fender Stratocaster and a Marshall amp should also sound like the 60's.

It's all good. Different strokes. :-)
Ranxerox
There isn't one piece of outboard that is essential regardless of what sort of electronic music you are making. It's anyway not the gear that is essential, but actually knowing what you want to accomplish. The gear is then just an enabler to that vision.

That said, for most types of music it's usually handy to have a compressor/gate, an EQ, a DI and a reverb/delay available. Preamps are only really required if you are using microphones, although they are also popular for adding colour to electronic source signals.

It's completely open as to what outboard you would use to accomplish a particular sound. I would say that just spending money on a device because a lot of people seem to be using it is a dubious rationale, you are better thinking of the result or application you want to achieve, then working backwards to the actual devices needed.
BugBrand
Does 'experience' count as outboard?
felixer
Gringo Starr wrote:
If Slayer recorded an album and used a Curve Bender

but they wouldn't ! because those older eq's are all based on coils. and those typically have a friendly/lazy character. not what fast metal needs. these are guys that put blankets over their miked ampcabinets to avoid even the slightest reverb, even in a well dampened studio. because they want it tight ...
Gringo Starr wrote:
That way of thinking would imply that anyone playing with a Fender Stratocaster and a Marshall amp should also sound like the 60's.

but most do ! or try to ... hence the market for 60ies type gear ...
Gringo Starr wrote:

Different strokes. :-)

exactly! that is why there is no 'universal problem solver' or 'makes everything sound great' box.

BugBrand wrote:
Does 'experience' count as outboard?

nope, that's 'inboard' lol

truth is, everybody must find his/her devices/techniques. and in the proces you spend time&money and (hopefully) learn. after a while you'll get yer setup (both mentally and physically) together and wonder why it was so hard to get there. until you walk into a studio that has all the 'wrong' gear and you realize how different approaches/aesthetics can be ...
best way to get thru that fast is do as many different jobs in as many different studio's a possible. that way you might occasionally even get paid for finding your path Mr. Green
Adminius
As a lot of wigglers have also stated, other than a Mixer and an Audio Recorder I do not think any outboard gear is necessarily essential. It all comes down to personal preference.

I also see a lot of geezers harping on about how essential compressors are in the mix, but I'm with Daft Punk on this one, their 'Random Access Memories' album won almost every award going in 2013, mainly due to the fact that the album was produced with no compression at all.

Can someone tell me whether an analogue dual-trace oscilloscope counts as 'outboard' gear? If so, I may have to modify my opening statement.
Gringo Starr
felixer wrote:
Gringo Starr wrote:
If Slayer recorded an album and used a Curve Bender

but they wouldn't !


Of course they wouldn't. But that wasn't my point.

BugBrand wrote:
Does 'experience' count as outboard?


No. But that definitely falls under the essential category.
felixer
Adminius wrote:
the fact that the album was produced with no compression at all.

depends what your sources are. for synth/drummachines you usually don't need compression. but a not-so-great bassplayer will sound a lot better in a bandcontext if his/her levels aren't all over the place ... then again, a good bassplayer might not need any ...
Adminius wrote:

Can someone tell me whether an analogue dual-trace oscilloscope counts as 'outboard' gear?

very useful piece of kit. great to see distortion and stereo imaging. goes under the categorie of 'metering'. good to think about this for a moment: what is '0dB' in your system anyway? just for fun compare the meters on different pieces of gear. exactly when is that red led blinking? and what does that mean sound-wise?
Gringo Starr wrote:
felixer wrote:
Gringo Starr wrote:
If Slayer recorded an album and used a Curve Bender

but they wouldn't !
Of course they wouldn't. But that wasn't my point.

but that is exactly the point: there isn't one device that is essential or fits everything. no matter how fancy/rare/expensive it is. so you'll always end up with a selection of different things. mix&match ...
grillo
Yeah I'm also in the 'a good compressor is not necessary' for electronic music. Granted it looks cool and it can give a polished sound, but I mean it's not the same thing as using it on let's say a real drum kit or bass guitar, where it can tame the performance and save some takes.

I think in general is a bit of a crutch. I've seen plenty of tutorial videos where big name electronic producers add a touch of compression to the kick playing four to the floor with not even a smidge of velocity variation. It's true that it changes the sound, but at that point it's basically the same thing as picking another sample for the kick, slightly tweaking the envelope or printing that effect and using that as a sample.
stk
Nothing is necessary.

But, it is often desirable. And fun. Both of which are necessary.

So there you go.
Ashi
my "must" haves:

- decent mixer w/ EQ (ZED10, too small very soon)
- compressor (2x3632 I picked up for 30$)
- delay (EHX Memory Boy)
- reverb (not yet! well Octatrack has some)
- some distortion / saturation (MF Drive)
- filter (MF Drive)

basically enough to get the basic mix & effects going without having to turn to the laptop, once it's recorded you can still play with EQ & effetcs ITB to make it really work. This is essential for me workflow wise not so much soundwise...
disp
EQ is definitely something that can not yet be done properly ITB.
The same goes for reverb.
And of course preamps.

But I guess one of the most essential things when going OTB/hybrid is a proper converter.
(Modular-)synth sound is so rich in harmonic content and frequencies. There's so much that can and will be lost going through subpar converters.
stk
giggle @ above

Not to turn this into a hard vs soft thread, but reverb is digital. Does it matter what box it is in? Not in my experience, it's all in the algo.

..unless you are talking springs, in which case I agree that afaik there are no really good sounding spring plugins.

Also, EQ. Many, many would disagree with you thumbs up
seeasound
Adminius wrote:
... but I'm with Daft Punk on this one, their 'Random Access Memories' album won almost every award going in 2013, mainly due to the fact that the album was produced with no compression at all.


Not true at all

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul13/articles/daft-punk.htm
Hainbach
My bare minimum is decent or interesting mics, good preamps, bucket brigade delays and tape echoes. A tape machine is not essential but it helps getting a more defined sound going from the start.

My portable setup reflects this, too: always with me is a Minifooger Delay and Marantz PMD cassette recorder, combined with a Babyface and Gefell 691 mic.
Gringo Starr
seeasound wrote:
Adminius wrote:
... but I'm with Daft Punk on this one, their 'Random Access Memories' album won almost every award going in 2013, mainly due to the fact that the album was produced with no compression at all.


Not true at all

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul13/articles/daft-punk.htm


That album massively sucked anyways. IMO of course. So if that's the case then give me some damn compressors!!!!
disp
stk wrote:
giggle @ above

Not to turn this into a hard vs soft thread, but reverb is digital. Does it matter what box it is in? Not in my experience, it's all in the algo.

..unless you are talking springs, in which case I agree that afaik there are no really good sounding spring plugins.

Also, EQ. Many, many would disagree with you thumbs up


Of course reverb is digital. I said ITB reverb is not as good as OTB. I didn't say digital reverb per se.

The sound is NOT only in the algo. Best example: Lexicon. The Native plugin bundle sounds nothing like the real boxes.
You can't turn something like the Lexicon 200 into a plugin. The real thing will always sound better. It's mainly in the converters, but also a bit in other components - I'm no technician so I don't know the details.

Or why is there no Bricasti M7 plugin yet? There's more to it than "it's only algos".

As for EQ: sure many would disagree. But give them a good analog EQ and let them compare. Digital EQ doesn't behave right, as in: doesn't sound as natural. Especially when boosting frequencies of course. But even when cutting: digital EQ curves just sound a bit unnatural, plastic-y.
Of course digital EQ is good. Even sufficient for most. But analog is still much better and preferable.
Adminius
Gringo Starr wrote:
seeasound wrote:
Adminius wrote:
... but I'm with Daft Punk on this one, their 'Random Access Memories' album won almost every award going in 2013, mainly due to the fact that the album was produced with no compression at all.


Not true at all

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul13/articles/daft-punk.htm


That album massively sucked anyways. IMO of course. So if that's the case then give me some damn compressors!!!!


I stand corrected.

Some compression was used, apparently.

But you're wrong about RAM being sucky! IMHO hihi
maruwan
NOBODY MENTIONS A TUNER ?! angry angry angry

hihi
24dB
If I had to choose just one of my hardware outboard rack units, it would definitely be the Eventide H3000B.

Not just because it sounds better than anything else to my ears, but also because, err, it's the only outboard rack gear I own at all. =]
BendingBus
bratley wrote:
For those that work OTB, what outboard compressors, EQs etc would you say are essential for electronic music production...


If you ask people with decades of experience producing records you are going to see the same names coming up on "must have" lists. The classics that have proven themselves over time, and work on all genres, which is why they are classics...

API550 EQs, Neve EQ, Pultecs, LA2A, LA3A, 1176, SSL buss compressors, harmonizers, plate reverbs, etc.
unclewoody
Did anyone mention the most obvious - good quality monitors that you know! You can have a bajillion dollar collection of compressors, eqs, etc, but if you can't hear what they are actually doing, it kinda is pointless.
rans53
geezers? Do you call your mother a geezer?
sam
bratley wrote:
For those that work OTB, what outboard compressors, EQs etc would you say are essential for electronic music production


A good reverb is really something. I love old Lexicon PCM and old Sony.
For EQ those on the Soundcraft 600 are good enough for me. They boost and cut with taste to me.
I'd like a stereo parametric sometimes for specific frequency search but it makes me work more on my skills into the sampler/synth/drumbox. That's better in the end.

I love compression too but honestly, i uses it mostly in a bad way and cannot afford what i'd love (SSL type, Vari-mu type).
Actually an oldschool cheap DBX166 (not XL) fit perfectly its role for parrallel kick compression. Good tool.
Was lucky to use an 1176 clone, a Dyna-mite years ago and this one is just as good -within its limits- for some jobs: giving some crack by saturating the limiter and help the kick sing with the sub for example.
Black Medicine
For production? A SOLID set of monitors, a clean amp, at least Apogee interface, my macbook, a couple of controllers, my bass, coffee, cigarettes, and time alone. The other stuff, mixer, synths, processing, etc., while nice to have, are not essential to my being able to create and record music. *shrugs* That said, I generally also travel with my Mopho because a little analog monosynth is always cool for ideas, when I get stuck.
clusterchord
following could clasify as essential outboard to me:

delays - analog (dm300, srs56), and tape (re-201)
character reverbs - lexicon pcm 70
larger than life reverbs - lexicon 300 & 224X
multifx space reverbs - eventide orville
analog fx - mutator, elkorus, mxr126

preamp - great river
comp - 1176 or a clone of it. i'm still borrowing it, but want to have one of my own, probably the hairball audio clone of blackface. this comp works on wide range of sources ,.. vocals, guitars, synths, drums. it be nice to have few of them on mixdown..


PS yes great monitoring and acoustic treatment are crucial. but don't think that was the object of OP question.
stk
I've used a lot of stuff, from high end to low end, hardware, software, wetware, middleware.. In the end it's all the same; whatever inspires you to start and finish a piece of music is essential, and everything else is guff grin

Im my observations, purists are often those types who get nothing done at all seriously, i just don't get it
mousegarden
This is difficult, nothing is essential, really, unless you've got a specific job to do, and you've been told to "do this"
There's a lot to said for being thrown into a situation where you have to make a go of it with whatever you've been given, the burden of making endless choices then goes out the window, because you don't have any choices, that's why having very little money can be a godsend, it stops you running around in circles wondering what to buy.
It also depends on what music you make, I make synth dominated music with lots of reverb and delay, simple description, but accurate, so I need a synth (which in reality could be anything) and a reverb and delay unit, I like the spaces that Brian Eno and Daniel Lanois create in their music which I like to copy, so that narrows my choices, simple, job done. When you break it down like this it all becomes a lot easier and clearer to see what's actually happening and what you need. I don't know what every effects unit sounds like for christs sake ? Eno likes it, so it's good enough for me, I'll get a Lexicon, fine, Lanois likes Prime Time's, fine, bung that in the shopping trolley. This is always how I've bought gear, and it always works out.
felixer
stk wrote:

Im my observations, purists are often those types who get nothing done at all seriously, i just don't get it

they post a lot on forums Mr. Green
stk
felixer wrote:
stk wrote:

Im my observations, purists are often those types who get nothing done at all seriously, i just don't get it

they post a lot on forums Mr. Green


Well I guess that counts as something.. I wouldn't know really, muffs is the only place I frequent after I swore off Gearslitz as the festering, fart sniffing, mysoginist man child cave that it is zombie
mousegarden
I'm not getting anything done at all, and I'm posting a lot on this forum, but do I care ? No.
Inspiration comes and goes, we have no control over it, down time is good, if it's that important you'll hit that record button, if not then carry on posting.
coolshirtdotjpg
I don't mean this to be rude, but I always hate when someone asks for peoples' opinion about gear, and then there are a bunch of people who respond with "it takes years of experience, talent, great ears etc." Sure, that's true, but we all know that, it's such a cliche at this point, there's really no point in stating the obvious. There may also be no point in just mentioning lists of gear, but for someone who isn't sure where to even start these kinds of threads are at least useful. It just seems like people are patting themselves on the back, rather than trying to help people when they refer to their own talent, or years of training...
mousegarden
coolshirtdotjpg wrote:
I don't mean this to be rude, but I always hate when someone asks for peoples' opinion about gear, and then there are a bunch of people who respond with "it takes years of experience, talent, great ears etc." Sure, that's true, but we all know that, it's such a cliche


It takes years of experience, and it takes loads of talent, and it also helps if you have great ears. But ad to that lot a sensitive disposition, heaps of good judgement, and you might, just might, get somewhere.

hmmm.....
coolshirtdotjpg
mousegarden wrote:
coolshirtdotjpg wrote:
I don't mean this to be rude, but I always hate when someone asks for peoples' opinion about gear, and then there are a bunch of people who respond with "it takes years of experience, talent, great ears etc." Sure, that's true, but we all know that, it's such a cliche


It takes years of experience, and it takes loads of talent, and it also helps if you have great ears. But ad to that lot a sensitive disposition, heaps of good judgement, and you might, just might, get somewhere.

hmmm.....


I agree, its just that I don't see why it needs to be said. Like should every gear recommendation request start with "I know that it require talent, good ears, experience, a good disposition and judgment, BUT" seriously, i just don't get it

Edit: Reading back, I apologize if I sound harsher than was my intention. I didn't mean to come off that way.
stk
To be fair, I don't know if there is any self back patting in this thread?

Anyway it depends on the intention of the question, yeah?
Is it about *your personal* essential gear (which is subjective of course, but I guess can lead to interesting finds/discussions), or *universally* essential gear (which is ridiculous, not at all useful, and can mislead newcomers into thinking that everyone actually NEEDS specific tools to make music)?
mousegarden
stk wrote:
To be fair, I don't know if there is any self back patting in this thread?

Anyway it depends on the intention of the question, yeah?
Is it about *your personal* essential gear (which is subjective of course, but I guess can lead to interesting finds/discussions), or *universally* essential gear (which is ridiculous, not at all useful, and can mislead newcomers into thinking that everyone actually NEEDS specific tools to make music)?


I just need the tools I need, trouble is, I can't make up my mind most of the time exactly what it is I need ! That's why it's a constant trail of experimentation for a lot of us, some things stick, others move on to that great big FS/Trade column in the sky !
stk
At the risk of sounding patronising, but in the lightest of spirits, I suggest you just forget the fucking tools, focus on the music.
If you can't decid it means they aren't really needed. The tools that you truly "need" will become apparent in time.

Cheers
Morley
When answering a thread with the title "which outboard would YOU consider essential" I thought it meant what gear I always use when working, not "what are the attributes a person needs for producing good music"

So if I was not to answer the question, I would say talent, experience and ears.
If I was to answer the question, I would say I consider a mixing desk, an eventide H3000 and a quality outboard reverb or two essential to get me where I want to go.

Are we on gearslutz? It sounds like it. "don't worry about gear, all the greats could make a record on anything"

I mean, to a certain degree I agree. It is the music that matters, BUT let's answer the question!
mousegarden
Morley wrote:
When answering a thread with the title "which outboard would YOU consider essential" I thought it meant what gear I always use when working, not "what are the attributes a person needs for producing good music"

So if I was not to answer the question, I would say talent, experience and ears.
If I was to answer the question, I would say I consider a mixing desk, an eventide H3000 and a quality outboard reverb or two essential to get me where I want to go.

Are we on gearslutz? It sounds like it. "don't worry about gear, all the greats could make a record on anything"

I mean, to a certain degree I agree. It is the music that matters, BUT let's answer the question!


Er, yeah ! I was just giving my opinion, we all know about the "talent, music is everything" routine, that's a given, but as you say, we are just answering the question ! Sometimes people like to say things like "the gear doesn't matter" I'm sure I've said it a gazillion times, but this is a gear forum ! that's what we tend to talk about, otherwise Muff's wouldn't be here.
The tools of our music are interesting, they do affect deeply how and what we produce, this is a "technological" music we are involved in, it goes with the territory, chopping and changing equipment, experimenting, and talking to others. We all talk a load of b******s and waffle on sometimes, but out of the soup sometimes comes really useful and interesting stuff for everyone.
Morley
Indeed!
That's why I agree with you :-)
I mean I am cocky enough to imagine that I could do good work on lesser equipment (well, I did when I started out) and have made complete tosh on some great equipment, but realistic enough to accept that good gear is central to getting music I work on to sound as good as possible.
ps: Good doesn't also mean expensive, just what I think is good. I would put a Roland DEP5 HIGH up the list of favourite reverb/FX units even though they cost bugger all.
mousegarden
I always think that good equipment, whatever that is for any of us, it should make what you do just easier, that's what I want to pay for most of the time. A great reverb, just sounds great, normally out of the box, same with things like compressors, etc, you don't have to do spend ages coaxing what you want out of them, stand in front of a great microphone and it won't work against you, it's things like this that make life easier, and it's worth spending money for, time savers to get you where you want to go quicker.
stk
hihi I've always seen gearslutz as more about "the gear, at the expense of everything else".
scozbor
fkn love cmpressoes n shit
mousegarden
stk wrote:
hihi I've always seen gearslutz as more about "the gear, at the expense of everything else".


A the moment my life "is" all about gear, I'm certainly not doing any of that music stuff.
I can't imagine a racing driver saying to his team "look, it's not about the car, I could win a Formula 1 race in a Morris Minor"
hyena
while i agree that in electronic music compression is less necessary than when recording\mixing bands, i think some quality stereo compressor would greatly improve the gelling of my drum groups (i now do this in software but could use some good outboard if i'd have the spare $$$)...
and also i can see me using it on some of my acoustic sources to shape a bit the signal (e.g.:playing bansuri or other stuff in a condenser mic...)
coolshirtdotjpg
mousegarden wrote:
stk wrote:
hihi I've always seen gearslutz as more about "the gear, at the expense of everything else".


A the moment my life "is" all about gear, I'm certainly not doing any of that music stuff.
I can't imagine a racing driver saying to his team "look, it's not about the car, I could win a Formula 1 race in a Morris Minor"


agreed, your last few posts are a much clearer version of what I was trying to say.
mousegarden
coolshirtdotjpg wrote:
mousegarden wrote:
stk wrote:
hihi I've always seen gearslutz as more about "the gear, at the expense of everything else".


A the moment my life "is" all about gear, I'm certainly not doing any of that music stuff.
I can't imagine a racing driver saying to his team "look, it's not about the car, I could win a Formula 1 race in a Morris Minor"


agreed, your last few posts are a much clearer version of what I was trying to say.


I don't know anything, at the moment I fee a bit like a coceptual artist, one that doesn't even need to do the work as the idea is all that's needed. I have little glimmerings of ideas, about how I can use my equipment in novel ways, but then just can't be arsed to do anything about them.
Multi Grooves
rans53 wrote:
geezers? Do you call your mother a geezer?


Nope, because she is a Doris..
Dilibob
My Rme ufx+ I view as essential, or in a wider context having a high end computer interface. I had a medium end system for a long time (protools hd Omni), but I have noticed a huge step up in my workflow going to ufx. I would also put having interface type expert sleepers modules as a must have (es3,es6,es7,es8).

I do have multiple outboard pultecs and also other high end compressors, for something like vocals I view them as essential for some mic/singer combinations - but I don't use them at all with my modular system.

[oops just realized this is an ancient thread]
Multi Grooves
stk wrote:


I swore off Gearslitz as the festering, fart sniffing, mysoginist man child cave that it is


Ooof!
naturligfunktion
mousegarden wrote:
I always think that good equipment, whatever that is for any of us, it should make what you do just easier, that's what I want to pay for most of the time. A great reverb, just sounds great, normally out of the box, same with things like compressors, etc, you don't have to do spend ages coaxing what you want out of them, stand in front of a great microphone and it won't work against you, it's things like this that make life easier, and it's worth spending money for, time savers to get you where you want to go quicker.


I second this. It is also quite fun to slowly build up the studio according to taste, nudging towards a sound that is pleasing.

For that I think it actually is essential to have a proper set of monitors. At least for me, it becomes very difficult to make music if I cannot hear what I am doing.

Second thing would be something to record on. Whether it is the computer or cassette, I do not care, but I think it is nice to every now and then record a bit smile
Multi Grooves
@naturligfunktion and everyone else actually:

What is the definition of "proper"?

£500?
£5000?
naturligfunktion
Multi Grooves wrote:
@naturligfunktion and everyone else actually:

What is the definition of "proper"?

£500?
£5000?


Excellent question! The kind that when you bounce the song, it sort of sounds like it should when you listen to it on your mates speakers.

Actually, that is the perfect monitor. I would like to have one of those..
I have KRS Rokit now. They are OK, but I think I have to look into my room more, rather than better monitors.
Todai
I'd say if your playing live the most essential is a DI box. I chose to put a Vermona TwinOut in my case - but if you want to safe the space a decent quality DI box is still a must...
shreddoggie
The reason people mention that the skill is required is because there is a strong contemporary notion that somehow one can learn something in a few minutes from watching a poo-toob vid or reading a forum post they found on their goo-hole and then (as long as they have the right gear) they are good to go with their rockstar gold record throwing TVs outa hotel windows fantasy. So tell me what gear I need so I can get on with it.

Clearly this is more prevalent over the other side, but here there are a fair share of insular knuckleheads as well. It is how it is - people who take pride in clarity like to make sure they mention that although you aren't gonna win the Indy 500 in a Morris Minor, you aint gonna win it in a Formula One either if you can't drive like a basass. Pointing this out isn't a problem.

For the analog domain I feel distortion and filtering / EQ are the most effective as opposed to their digital counterparts. Things that have these qualities to their primary effect are better OTB too i.e. BB and tape delays. I love my hardware comps and Eventide / Lexicon but if I had to make a Sophies choice it would be the former analog character stuff I'd keep.
mousegarden
Looking back on my posts sometimes it's like reading another persons posts, it's like I'm schizophrenic or at least bipolar.
But back on topic, and FX are my faourite items of gear after all, I've owned a lot, some really good stuff too, but in the past few years I've lost interest a bit, all I have now is a Lexicon MX200, and an EHX delay. I think it's because I don't put so much store on using effects to suggest ideas anymore. I'm more interested in getting sounds at source, from my synths, and the piano.
And don't worry, it is me, I did write this...

hihi
felixer
well fx wise there is a ton of useful stuff on ebay. i've gotten my yamaha, tc and lex there. beyond that i think any kind of mixingboard is good.
some swear at using a compressor. but methinks it's fairly useless for synths. beyond the mastering stage i never use one. always on bassguitars and vocals, but never on synths ... for berlin school type of leads an echo is essential.
as a whole methinks outboard is not that essential for synths, as you can do so much on the thing itself ...
Muzone
mousegarden wrote:
......I'm more interested in getting sounds at source, from my synths, and the piano.


Just like a good mix needs less mastering, I've found if you focus on working on the source sound you certainly need less porcessing to make it "interesting".

I used to see FX as some kind of magic voodoo that would make my mediocre sounds somehow more exciting and went in big on pedals, then gradually realised I was listening to the pedal not the synth (which isn't entirely a 'bad thing')

Once it sunk in that almost anything through a "blue box" would sound blue boxy I went back to concentrating on source sounds and trimmed back the pedal collection to a few funky delays/verbs that would be either fun to tweak real time or enhance the sound rather than taking it over.

I also discovered that (for me) all the really interesting FX (as in totally transform a sound) were VST anyway (such as those from Glitch machines, Audiority and Freakshow Industries) - anyway, it's all good as long as you enjoy it wink
mousegarden
Muzone wrote:
mousegarden wrote:
......I'm more interested in getting sounds at source, from my synths, and the piano.


Just like a good mix needs less mastering, I've found if you focus on working on the source sound you certainly need less porcessing to make it "interesting".

I used to see FX as some kind of magic voodoo that would make my mediocre sounds somehow more exciting and went in big on pedals, then gradually realised I was listening to the pedal not the synth (which isn't entirely a 'bad thing')

Once it sunk in that almost anything through a "blue box" would sound blue boxy I went back to concentrating on source sounds and trimmed back the pedal collection to a few funky delays/verbs that would be either fun to tweak real time or enhance the sound rather than taking it over.

I also discovered that (for me) all the really interesting FX (as in totally transform a sound) were VST anyway (such as those from Glitch machines, Audiority and Freakshow Industries) - anyway, it's all good as long as you enjoy it wink


I agree, ad I'm also applying FX more at the mixing/mastering stage, using plugins.
Reaktor FX chains, and Vintageverb are about it.
Instead of using an effect to radically alter a synth sound, I'd rather use effects now, just to add an overal atmosphere to an entire mix.
synthpriest
Eventide DSP4000.
slowpilgrim
A pair of high quality monitors is going to do more for a mix than any analog outboard gear... does that count?
felixer
slowpilgrim wrote:
A pair of high quality monitors is going to do more for a mix than any analog outboard gea
r... does that count?

well, since you can't buy 'good ears' (and the brain attached to that) good monitors and a good acoustic certainly help in getting a good mix. but it is attitude too: i once saw a few guys do a mix at the sae. they started with the bassdrum alone. then after a lot of discussion they went on to the snare (track2) and the whole thing repeated itself. needless to say that they didn't get anything like a good mix, because they ran out of time. that is prob the most stupid way to do it. i always have all the tracks i'm ging to use on. maybe softer but always so that i can hear what's going on. and i always only record sounds that are good. no 'fix-it-in-the-mix'. because that doesn't work. it never has and never will ... so when i'm done recording the mix is 80-90% there ... i also never put a seperate monitor mix for the musicians. they listen to what i hear. the only exception is very loud gitarists who do not need their own sound in the mix.
JediDJ
Eventide FX like Orville can do some magic even to an ordinary blink or clap.
Some Roland tape delays can bring you to real dope territory much faster.

I also think that quality of monitors is not the thing that you actually need in the first place in electronic music.

Simon Posford did just well on a pair of Mackies.

You need a good vibe and inspiration.

After all you are not doing a kinda job like Pensado.
Autotuning and refining a pop songs. )
gruebleengourd
For electronic music where much of the mixing takes place while composing, I find that overly treated rooms (ie dead) are much less practical as you cannot hear anything properly unless you are in the monitor sweet spot. It's better to "know" your room and your monitoring shortcomings and be able to hear from where you're playing keys or twiddling knobs, then having a perfect mix environment.

This is doubly the case when there may be more than one person in the studio contributing to the recording.

If you're doing a final mix after the recording, then the above doesn't really apply.

As for essential outboard. I'd wouldn't want to work without a mixer with decen subgroup options, a patchbay and a variety of efx. I use a lot of ITB efx later on in the mix, but I don't feel you really can get the same depth of result without hands on the faders, live tweaking aux, and feedback back loops in the mixer.
felixer
JediDJ wrote:

I also think that quality of monitors is not the thing that you actually need in the first place in electronic music.

Simon Posford did just well on a pair of Mackies.

You need a good vibe and inspiration.
)

silly notion. you always need good monitors. you prob never heard some and your mixes don't translate well to other systems.
never heard of posford ... and yes good vibe and inspiration are essential too ...
JediDJ
Simon Posford is an originator of Shpongle and Hallucinogen.
Psy ambient and psy trance projects.
No matter.
Simon Posford is not alone.

You missed my point.
You don't need Focals and Barefoots to make groovey electronic music, even with correct low end.
Lots of examples of guys used mediocre speakers and got right results.
Of course mastering studios count. They may correct some errors in the final stage.

Way Out West, Ferry Corsten, Digweed, actually all early 90s prog house scene, most of the UK Jungle DnB productions, like Goldie.
And many many more. I think no need to mention all of them.
It doesn't matter.
Early Detroit tech, early Juno Reactor.
They used mostly something like Alesis Monitor One, maybe NS10s, Mackies, KRKs, cheap Dynaudios.
And I think that was a golden era of electronic music.

Certainly it has nothing to do with monitoring.

Especially in low end rooms, the profit of using expensive monitors is next to nothing. They won't reveal their potential.
slumberjack
JediDJ wrote:
Simon Posford is an originator of Shpongle and Hallucinogen.
Psy ambient and psy trance projects.
No matter.
Simon Posford is not alone.

You missed my point.
You don't need Focals and Barefoots to make groovey electronic music, even with correct low end.
Lots of examples of guys used mediocre speakers and got right results.
Of course mastering studios count. They may correct some errors in the final stage.

Way Out West, Ferry Corsten, Digweed, actually all early 90s prog house scene, most of the UK Jungle DnB productions, like Goldie.
And many many more. I think no need to mention all of them.
It doesn't matter.
Early Detroit tech, early Juno Reactor.
They used mostly something like Alesis Monitor One, maybe NS10s, Mackies, KRKs, cheap Dynaudios.
And I think that was a golden era of electronic music.

Certainly it has nothing to do with monitoring.

Especially in low end rooms, the profit of using expensive monitors is next to nothing. They won't reveal their potential.


as i can only speak for myself, after i got better monitors i was like 'why did i spend so much cash on gear, all i needed would have been better speakers' - i remember me saying this to people. and now i want good eq's.

where i think i can speak for others too is when you are talking about those artists. for musician trying to emerge today it's crucial that they have their mixes done pretty good. maybe even better then some of the ancient masters may ever will - only to get a change for a release on a mediocre label. not that it would be that super important because mastering can fix a lot but only to cut through the millions of people trying to get something out of their creativity and "living the dream" like themself/us/you...so referencing to people from the late 80ies/early 90ies is imho impossible.

sure it's not the monitor only, but those geniouses who mix without any further knowledge on ns10's their breaktough release should be pretty rare.
MindMachine
gruebleengourd wrote:
For electronic music where much of the mixing takes place while composing, I find that overly treated rooms (ie dead) are much less practical as you cannot hear anything properly unless you are in the monitor sweet spot.


That I agree with as that is how I operate.

And agree with Morley: nice mixer and an H3000 (and eventually a better reverb).
JediDJ
Without acoustic treatment, in some situations,
there's NOTHING NEEDED except NS10s. Trust me.
Because in a room full of furniture or brick, concrete walls,
under 90hz there will be a dance of a devil on a spectrum analyzer.

And acoustic treatment can cost muuuuuuch more than a pair of excellent monitors.
I've been in that awful untreated rooms where big Westlakes or K&H were standing.
Profit of having such a speakers in such rooms were next to nothing.

So..... precise control costs money.

Maybe at some point is better to get Stax electrostatic headphones.
They are very linear and exclude room acoustic from a signal path wink
felixer
JediDJ wrote:
Especially in low end rooms, the profit of using expensive monitors is next to nothing. They won't reveal their potential.

this is very true! and expensive doesn't mean it's good! i'm amazed at what some of these sets cost. and btw there is a lot of difference between an ns10 and a monitorone, anyone should be able to hear that.
and acoustic treatment doesn't need to be expensive, if you know what you are doing ...
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