Jürgen Haible (SOST! Tau ... VOCODER re-run!)

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Zaibach
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Post by Zaibach » Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:28 am

diablojoy wrote:
Wow, holy 40 slider string filter! Would love tto see what that looks like inside!
me also I have an original board in my backlog along with some other original haible boards, will get to them eventually .
would be good to see an example of how that one is wired.
Alright, took the front panel off and took a picture... But it's certainly not the neatest wiring you'll see :hihi: . I mounted all the faders on to aluminum rails and then attached the rails to the front panel. That made mounting easier. Mr. Haible recommended soldering a 1k resistor vertically into the board at the individual filter output and go from there with a wire to pin 3 of a 50k log slider. Pin 2 of the slider goes to the idividual output jack. The very professional-looking line of 51k resistors at the switching lug of each jack is simply connected to the EQ out jack. I soldered the 51k resistors at the switching lugs, which means that the frequency band is removed from the mix when a patch cable is plugged in. Passive summing, no op-amp involved. This output has less volume than the normal output, which is not so bad. Maybe I will hook up a simple amplifier circuit some time just to bring it to the same output level. And that's it! Well, Mr. Haible also mentioned that you could add a 1uF capacitor after the 1k resistor before going to the slider to get rid of any DC offset (which I left out). I also considered toggle switches to remove individual frequency bands from the mix, but then again I could also turn the volume down the zero via the slider, saving me the wiring of 40 SPDT switches....

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diablojoy
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Post by diablojoy » Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:28 am

Alright, took the front panel off and took a picture... But it's certainly not the neatest wiring you'll see hihi . I mounted all the faders on to aluminum rails and then attached the rails to the front panel. That made mounting easier. Mr. Haible recommended soldering a 1k resistor vertically into the board at the individual filter output and go from there with a wire to pin 3 of a 50k log slider. Pin 2 of the slider goes to the idividual output jack. The very professional-looking line of 51k resistors at the switching lug of each jack is simply connected to the EQ out jack. I soldered the 51k resistors at the switching lugs, which means that the frequency band is removed from the mix when a patch cable is plugged in. Passive summing, no op-amp involved. This output has less volume than the normal output, which is not so bad. Maybe I will hook up a simple amplifier circuit some time just to bring it to the same output level. And that's it! Well, Mr. Haible also mentioned that you could add a 1uF capacitor after the 1k resistor before going to the slider to get rid of any DC offset (which I left out). I also considered toggle switches to remove individual frequency bands from the mix, but then again I could also turn the volume down the zero via the slider, saving me the wiring of 40 SPDT switches....
cool thanks for that info , seems simpler then I remember , might draw up a board for the sliders and jacks I think
It probably wont happen today but if it does it definitely wont go smoothly.

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Post by Jop » Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:00 pm

Almost finished the Tau pipe board and preparing a wiring diagram (do not have the 4u panel / component pcb). Want to use the same controls Ralph uses on his 4U panel layout.

* Not quite sure if I got everything right on my diagram, especially the CV attenuverter. Can someone check?

* See some discrepancies in pot values:
- input attenuator is on Juergen diagram 10KA vs 10KB for the RS version. I assume this is just a matter of preference, how the pots reacts during its travel?
- LFO sweep is 100KA vs 1MA?

* Is the LFO slow mod is still useful to implement, maybe with the new pot value for rate this mod doesn't make that much sense anymore?

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Thanks :-)!

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nordlead
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Post by nordlead » Thu Oct 06, 2016 6:00 pm

Jop wrote: * See some discrepancies in pot values:
- input attenuator is on Juergen diagram 10KA vs 10KB for the RS version. I assume this is just a matter of preference, how the pots reacts during its travel?
- LFO sweep is 100KA vs 1MA?

* Is the LFO slow mod is still useful to implement, maybe with the new pot value for rate this mod doesn't make that much sense anymore?

Thanks :-)!
Yes, Yes and no ;-)

B10K or A10K is a matter of preference ...
LFO Speed: most people find the original values / speed way too fast, I found that 1 Meg gives a nice range :bananaguitar: and is easier to implement than various other ideas. Therefore I haven't even tried the LFO Slow mod yet ...
Random*Source: Serge, JHaible & more ... (also on facebook.com/randomsource)

(please contact me through email rather than pm: rc at randomsource . net - thanks!)

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Post by nigel » Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:08 pm

Jop wrote:Almost finished the Tau pipe board and preparing a wiring diagram (do not have the 4u panel / component pcb). Want to use the same controls Ralph uses on his 4U panel layout.

* Not quite sure if I got everything right on my diagram, especially the CV attenuverter. Can someone check?
You need to swap the two non-ground connections on your output pots. (Capacitors to the center connection.)

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Post by Jop » Fri Oct 07, 2016 1:10 am

Thanks guys! :tu: So the CV processor is wired correctly?

Will use the 1MA for the LFO speed and see if I still need the LFO mod.

I will swap the connections for the output and input pots :doh:

Now matching the last few pairs (choose hand matched pairs of BC550C instead of the 300P's) and hopefully my 18V AC adapter will arrive soon.

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Post by nigel » Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:52 am

Jop wrote:Thanks guys! :tu: So the CV processor is wired correctly?
Almost certainly not, but I don't know what it's meant to be doing.
Jop wrote:I will swap the connections for the output and input pots :doh:
Just the outputs, the input is wired correctly.

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Post by Jop » Sat Oct 08, 2016 5:17 am

Thanks Nigel, should have looked better at Juergen wiring diagram....

Hope Ralf can reveal more info about the cv processor 8-)

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Post by Jop » Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:56 pm

Time for power up and test :party: no smoke but sadly not all good....

First of all it passes audio and does nice thing to it, it phases and sounds smooth and wonderful :-) The LFO does work and all controls seem to work fine. Now the not so good news:

When the UP Led is installed the phasing stops, the led is constant on and the LFO doesn't do anything. When removed everything is back to normal. The DOWN Led does work properly, no issue here.

Furthermore I get strange voltages from the power supply (I'm using a AC AC 18V adapter). With both leds installed I measure on the MOTM/Euro header: +7,48V & -14,21V and without Leds: +9,54 & 12,23V???

What I have done so far (and without result...:-(

* Checked all parts in the power supply.
* Replaced the LM317 & 337
* Replaced U6 with a new TL072.
* Replaced AC adapter.

Please see below the board, hopefully someone can give me some tips where to check first.

Thx :tu:

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cygmu
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Post by cygmu » Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:23 pm

edit: never mind, misreading five-band resistor colour codes again.

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Post by Jop » Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:18 pm

Still scratching my head, not figured out yet what's causing my issues....:bang:

Some help would be really appreciated.

Thx

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the bad producer
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Post by the bad producer » Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:28 pm

Have you double checked the values of R62-R65?

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Post by Jop » Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:53 pm

Thanks Charlie. Just checked them and it looks like they are all correct. It's difficult to read to color bands especially if you are color blind :mrgreen:

I did measure them in circuit, don't know if that is telling very much:

R64 2K5
R63 2K
R62 2K62
R65 4K33

My board is an early test board from Ralph, and if correct you build the exact same board without issues?

Hope to find my faults soon, it's such a fantastic phaser!

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the bad producer
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Post by the bad producer » Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:02 pm

Actually, just looked at the *RS* page for that, now I'm not sure these are the same as on JH's schematic, I guess so...?!

It sounds like there is something erroneous between +V and GND, maybe a wrong value of something, or a mis-wired pot?

Very odd!

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Post by L-1 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:41 pm

I wanted this vocoder, but Jurgen offered me to take from test batch on my risk. i rejected.
Now I'm waiting someone shows this working but nothing during years while the second reissue planned.
I want but I want to be sure it's working, and no big troubles.
Also want a battle who recorded better samples.

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Post by Dogma » Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:59 pm

L-1 wrote:I wanted this vocoder, but Jurgen offered me to take from test batch on my risk. i rejected.
Now I'm waiting someone shows this working but nothing during years while the second reissue planned.
I want but I want to be sure it's working, and no big troubles.
Also want a battle who recorded better samples.
So there are no working versions of this pcb? I'm looking at building it so very interested

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diablojoy
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Post by diablojoy » Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:52 am

I was sorely tempted by this when jurgen originally asked for builders
I think there are working modules are out there now
though by accounts its not an easy journey
look on Electro-Music in jurgen haibles sub forum there's a build topic.
It probably wont happen today but if it does it definitely wont go smoothly.

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the bad producer
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Post by the bad producer » Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:18 am

Mine's been working for a long time now, but as I'm always tinkering with it, it's not finished!

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Post by Jop » Fri Oct 14, 2016 6:39 am

the bad producer wrote:Actually, just looked at the *RS* page for that, now I'm not sure these are the same as on JH's schematic, I guess so...?!

It sounds like there is something erroneous between +V and GND, maybe a wrong value of something, or a mis-wired pot?

Very odd!
I'm going to finish some other projects first and then come back to the TAU with a fresh mind.... Hopefully the error will be ironed out soon then.

Thanks for the help so far :tu:

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the bad producer
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Post by the bad producer » Fri Oct 14, 2016 6:43 am

I think R65 looks odd, this is part of the voltage divider for the UP LED, but I could be totally wrong... Actually looks like a very neat build, so I'm surprised that it is being funky!

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Post by LED-man » Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:12 pm

--- nothing here--- edited
Last edited by LED-man on Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
################################
TTSH Support Page and other DIY Projects:
https://www.DSL-man.de

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Post by Jop » Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:08 pm

the bad producer wrote:I think R65 looks odd, this is part of the voltage divider for the UP LED, but I could be totally wrong... Actually looks like a very neat build, so I'm surprised that it is being funky!
Oeps, missed your reply....
Thanks for checking, R65 looks on closer inspection correct (orange/orange/black/red/brown). I will put the print away for now and start from scratch checking next week.

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Post by Galaxy3000 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:18 pm

>Jop
I guess your power supply is connected the wrong way...
I see 2 cables on the 18V rails but none at ground reference... Do you use a 18V wall wart supply connected to the two 18V Ins???

With wall wart power supply you should connect one wire to 18V (any of the 2) and the other one to ground. With this supply design one half of the AC cycle is fed through 18V>D3>LM317>GND the other half through GND>LM337>D4>18V - (or through D5/D6 respectively). C55/C56 do fill the gaps between the neg/pos halves of the cycle on the two rails.
(I was surprised that only 470uF are used here - normally I would expect much higher values, like 2200uF to flatten the AC Cycles - personally I'll check the +/- 15V rails and eventually increase the capacitors)

Both 18V Ins are used when feeding with a 2x18V Transformer with center tap.

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Post by Jop » Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:30 pm

Many thanks for your reply :tu:

Yes, I'm using a wall wart connected to both 18V inputs. I'm going to change this asap like you described and I hope things will be all right then...

First need to finish the Yocto 808 :mrgreen:

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Post by Jop » Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:59 am

You where correct Galaxy3000!

Just changed the wires so 18V and ground is connected and everything fine now!

Thanks so much for your help here :tu:

Also the attenuverter is working properly like wired in my diagram.

Now designing a faceplate and already pre-ordered some nice Rogans from weedywhizz.

Life is good in DIY :sb:

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