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Buchla 275 vs 190
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Buchla, EMS & Serge Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author Buchla 275 vs 190
olesandström
I am thinking about adding some reverb to my system and thinking of either a 190 clone or a 275 clone...

are there different makers out there?

how do they compare? (except from the 275 being dual, voltage controlled + eq)

where do you put the tanks?
Reed
I can't speak for clones, but the main sonic difference is that the 275 has a compander/noise gate on the output that sounds similar to a 292 in combo mode. It has a long decay and a low threshold, so it doesn't mess with most of the reverb decay. The 212 Dodecamodule has a similar circuit.

If the spring tanks don't fit in the back of your cabinet stick them in an external box.
Peake
I haven't owned a vintage 275 but have owned a 212 and am familiar with its sound. The reverb is very good but you can hear a touch of noise gate. The 275 adds EQ which is so very important. There is technically no 190 clone due to the rarity of the output transformers, which were obsoleted in perhaps 1973 (edit: There are now clone transformers!). The 190 circuit is said to be along the lines of a vintage power amp using an output transformer. I've built a couple of 190 clones when people actually found the transformers and it's a great-sounding unit with 17" tanks. Find some transformers and I can build you a clone, or provide the DIY home-etch artwork and wiring instructions.

There is even contention regarding what sounds best...mounting the reverb tanks with the open side down, or vertically...

I haven't yet heard a 275 clone; they're probably really good...
fastheadache
The transformers were in production long after that apparently - they simply weren't a common type. I have a pair with a date code of '84 for example.
olesandström
i have neither experience in diy nor in chasing rare components so i will probably go for a 275 clone. the eq is a nice surplus too.

anybody else have some input to this thread?
fastheadache
Based on my experience with the originals you're better off with a 275 unless you're specifically after the Series 100 aesthetic. The 275 can approximate the 190 whereas the same can't be said of the 190.
olesandström
i think i will try for a 275. thanks for the input!
Peake
fastheadache wrote:
Based on my experience with the originals you're better off with a 275 unless you're specifically after the Series 100 aesthetic. The 275 can approximate the 190 whereas the same can't be said of the 190.


Been working on adding the 175 dual EQ and vactrol Xfaders or 110 Gates to the 190, FWIW...
olesandström
sounds interesting smile let me know about the progress if you like
tIB
I cant talk comparisons but I have a 275r that I like- had a bit of a job with noise initially but that was due to a ground loop. Quiter now though not altogether quiet. Mine is in a system with e modules, which means I can't use the backplate (either that or the back plate is wonky). Its a decent module though, with some bonuses- EQ, CV over the mix... there is no noise gate functionality that I know of though, unless the mystery yellow switches are hiding something I'm yet to figure out!

EDIT: I can try to do a demo in the next few days if folk want to hear it?
olesandström
yes, a demo would be nice smile i have seen only one by djangosfire so far.
what do you mean with wonky backplates? is the module too deep for an e boat?
Peake
I believe the yellow switches are for monitoring/summing via the 227. I doubt the 190 should be mounted in a 200 or 200e boat due to the heat generated by the driver ICs. The 100 Series cabinets were AFAIK all open-back.
tIB
I get a horrendous digital noise interference when I use the 275 back plate- no idea what the issue is, I asked Roman and his solution (iirc) was to use it without, which is fine. I have the module in a diy boat and with right angled rca jacks it fits fine.
tIB
Did some more messing earlier though didnt have recording set up. It is quite noisy, for best results when using perccusive stuff you need to keep the wet/dry mix low (ie run it quite dry), preferably with a low pass behind it. The crossfading can sound very nice/angry if you FM it, the eq is as you'd expect really and overall I'd say the sound of the tanks are quite dark.

I love having a reverb and delay (288v) inside the rack but the noise levels drive me mad - 275r is nowhere near as noisy as the 288v mind.
tIB
OK, demo as promised:

[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/198470953" params="auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_use r=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true" width="100%" height="450" iframe="true" /]

258v and then 291e pings into the 275r, sometimes with the 2nd vco of the 258 modulating the crossfading for wildness. You will hear the 275r reverb sound, as well as the EQ and cross fading. Enjoy!
Peake
SlayerBadger!
olesandström
i like the sound... noise level doesn't seem too bad.
tIB
Yeah, it's ok really when balanced right, though not as quiet as my Kiev gr1- I often wonder whether I should swap over and run a patchbay.
olesandström
always had reverbs and delays outside the system. but having them inside the system has some advantages...
tIB
It does, and more so in the case of the 275 given the CV crossfading and EQ- there are times when I want my old ekdahl back though, which was a nice balance of CV control and functionality... I dont have space on the table though, so in the rack it is for now!
weinglas
This is a fine demo of a very nice sounding spring reverb! Thanks a lot for sharing we're not worthy

Unfortunately it gives me a bit of GAS very frustrating
Happyanimal
In regards to the 275r does anyone know the audio level coming out via rca jacks?

I know they are supposed to go to the tanks, but was wondering if I could go rca to tinijax into a delay, etc for VC controlled FX send. I only use one channel/ 1 reverb tank at the moment anyways.
tIB
I can have a look at that at some point... interesting idea!
Happyanimal
tIB wrote:
I can have a look at that at some point... interesting idea!


hyper

Probably getting rid of 227e, too big for what I use it for. Will miss fading between outputs for effects send. Hopefully this can be a workaround.
tIB
It's funny, as I've always been on the fence about switching out the 275r and 207e for a 227e, though I hadn't really considered the 275r as a two channel eq and/or output/insert module.
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