Mannequins' Cold Mac??

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wm.wragg
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Post by wm.wragg » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:12 am

For OR and AND, analog logic is essentially the same as digital logic, it just appears different as it is working on continuous values, rather than discrete ones:

AND:

Digital - will only return a high when both inputs are high, othewise returns low
Analog - returns the minumim of the two inputs

OR:

Digital - returns a high when either of its inputs is high, otherwise returns a low
Analog - returns the maximum of the two inputs

So if you just send the analog logic highs and lows, then they have the same behviour as the digital version, but if you send them inbetween values, they will still give you something out. If you send continuously changing signals through analog logic you get min/max waveforms out.

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richc90
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Post by richc90 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:43 am

exactly. the little diagram Mutable use in the context of their Kinks module is really helpful to visualise analog logic

Image

MAX = "maximum peaks" = Analog OR
MIN = "minimum peaks" = Analog AND

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Post by Aaronautical001 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:05 am

You guys rock :sb:

So, for someone who was used to the use of digital logic, I hadn't realised that min and max were analog logic. But this completely chimes in with the terminology in cold Mac. :doh:

And as for processing gates, it makes sense. I dont have a scope yet, so was using BIA to detect the outgoing logic pattern.however, this was confounded by too long a pulse width and I was getting a single hit on the BIA.

Thanks for explaining :tu:

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Post by mcphable » Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:00 pm

Brilliant explanation for Analog vs Digital AND and OR! Helpful visual!

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BaloErets
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Post by BaloErets » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:37 pm

richc90 wrote:exactly. the little diagram Mutable use in the context of their Kinks module is really helpful to visualise analog logic

Image

MAX = "maximum peaks" = Analog OR
MIN = "minimum peaks" = Analog AND
The 4ms SISM also has some really nice demonstrations of the Slice +/Slice - outputs (Essentially Min/Max outputs of the sum of up to 4 signals). These visuals are really useful in understanding your signal output. But you know it's so funny; I've had both a Kinks and a SISM in my rack for quite sometime now. I've used their Max/Min on occasion, but never even remotely to their potential. I would say I used them more as related somewhat chaotic modulation, rather than for their utilitarian provisions.

And yet, playing with the Cold Mac, it really made me appreciate the more subtle necessity of rectification and these positive/negative only voltage outputs.

And then to be provided an offset voltage for the floor/ceiling and it's like :cloud:

And then to be able to have voltage control over that floor/ceiling, that's like :omg: :omg:

And then I look at the Cold Mac and my Sequential Switch Matrix, and my brain just fucking explodes and I die :deadbanana:

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Post by nostalghia » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:44 pm

Posting here as it seems to have the most recent activity out of the various Cold Mac related threads.

It's been unavailable for some time now-any news? I see a note at the bottom of the Cold Mac page on the Whimsical Raps site stating "Back Autumn 2018" (same for the W/). Anyone heard anything? Shipping again soon now?

I have the "holy trinity" of Mangrove, Three Sisters and Just Friends (and really like them all), but never was interested enough in Cold Mac. Kind of wanting to try one now for some reason.

Folks that have had one for a long time-do you still use it often? Or did you eventually sell it or find you preferred something else with similar functions?
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Post by mdoudoroff » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:01 pm

nostalghia wrote:It's been unavailable for some time now-any news? I see a note at the bottom of the Cold Mac page on the Whimsical Raps site stating "Back Autumn 2018" (same for the W/). Anyone heard anything? Shipping again soon now?
Like most small producers who can’t afford to have lots of inventory sitting around, WR makes 2-3 batches of each module per year. If you want to be sure, you could probably pre-order one from Control or Control Voltage.

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nostalghia
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Post by nostalghia » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:49 pm

mdoudoroff wrote: Like most small producers who can’t afford to have lots of inventory sitting around, WR makes 2-3 batches of each module per year. If you want to be sure, you could probably pre-order one from Control or Control Voltage.
Thanks. Makes sense, I was sort of already aware that they don't make production runs as frequently or in the same kind of quantity that say, a Make Noise or Intellijel does.

Didn't think to check Control Voltage (have yet to order from them, usually go with Control, DM or Perfect Circuit).
And the answer to my question was right there on the CV preorder page for Cold Mac: "The ETA from Mannequines is "by the 2nd week of November" ". So thanks for the tip!

No current listings for used ones that I can see anywhere (certainly possible I may have overlooked one somewhere), guess owners are hanging on to theirs.
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Post by GYS » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:44 pm

nostalghia wrote:Folks that have had one for a long time-do you still use it often? Or did you eventually sell it or find you preferred something else with similar functions?

I was like you. Had the trinity and then had to have Cold Mac just to complete the set. I still haven't really had my breakthrough moment with it even after owning it for years, but I can't seem to part with it. From what I have gathered from others, once you have an "Ah ha!" moment, it's in pretty much every patch, so I'm holding out.


Cold Mac is a real head scratcher for me as it's difficult to visualize what it would do to a patch. It's a lot of trial and error for me, but what I probably need to do is focus on it for a few sessions and write down some notes and applications of it.

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Post by diasporos » Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:31 pm

nostalghia wrote:Posting here as it seems to have the most recent activity out of the various Cold Mac related threads.

It's been unavailable for some time now-any news? I see a note at the bottom of the Cold Mac page on the Whimsical Raps site stating "Back Autumn 2018" (same for the W/). Anyone heard anything? Shipping again soon now?

I have the "holy trinity" of Mangrove, Three Sisters and Just Friends (and really like them all), but never was interested enough in Cold Mac. Kind of wanting to try one now for some reason.

Folks that have had one for a long time-do you still use it often? Or did you eventually sell it or find you preferred something else with similar functions?
I’ve had two of them for more than a year and I use them in every possible way, they’re like a hub of control pipelines to me, together with a couple of MI Links for multing and mixing them. I start with the random voltages and gates from an SSF URA as a source then I cross patch between the Cold Macs and utilize all the logic in/outs, rectifier, offset, crossfaders, across both then I feed my Mobenthey system. Used to have a mangrove too but sold it. I’m sticking to Benjolin and Mobenthey as my sound and the ‘macs really are IT!
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Post by jwise » Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:54 pm

diasporos wrote:I’ve had two of them for more than a year and I use them in every possible way, they’re like a hub of control pipelines to me, together with a couple of MI Links for multing and mixing them. I start with the random voltages and gates from an SSF URA as a source then I cross patch between the Cold Macs and utilize all the logic in/outs, rectifier, offset, crossfaders, across both then I feed my Mobenthey system. Used to have a mangrove too but sold it. I’m sticking to Benjolin and Mobenthey as my sound and the ‘macs really are IT!
You could probably do a few people a favor by posting a short video of just such a setup and demonstrate what kind of sound you are taking out of it.

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Post by diasporos » Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:58 pm

jwise wrote:
diasporos wrote:I’ve had two of them for more than a year and I use them in every possible way, they’re like a hub of control pipelines to me, together with a couple of MI Links for multing and mixing them. I start with the random voltages and gates from an SSF URA as a source then I cross patch between the Cold Macs and utilize all the logic in/outs, rectifier, offset, crossfaders, across both then I feed my Mobenthey system. Used to have a mangrove too but sold it. I’m sticking to Benjolin and Mobenthey as my sound and the ‘macs really are IT!
You could probably do a few people a favor by posting a short video of just such a setup and demonstrate what kind of sound you are taking out of it.
That’s a good idea. I can only take an iPhone video so the sound won’t be great, but I’ll do this on Saturday night. People will get a kick out of it!
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Post by Sunden » Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:05 am

For me it’s not about a certain sound, it’s more of just a Swiss Army knife. Say I have stepped modulation that I want to be skewed, or some pitch modulation which I want portamento on, then I use the follower.

Say I want to pan a mono signal back and forth into a stereo effect, or into two delays with different times, or two totally independent processing chains, then use the cross fader as a panner with one in and two outs.

Say I want to cross fade between two modulation sources for a filter cutoff, one a random stepped modulation and one some lfos, then I use the cross fader with two ins and just one out.

Say I want to create some new gate patterns, use the logic section.

These are all basic utility, uses, but they are good ways to get you started feeling comfortable with it before doing some more wacky self-patching, and it’s great being able to do them all simultaneously with one module.

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Post by mdoudoroff » Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:44 am

These are all basic utility, uses, but they are good ways to get you started feeling comfortable with it before doing some more wacky self-patching, and it’s great being able to do them all simultaneously with one module.
To expand on what Sunden said, I think it bears repeating that—just like Maths—Cold Mac does nothing magical, per se. If you break it down, Cold Mac is just a bunch of basic utility circuits. Also, like Maths, Cold Mac has developed a mystique based on its inscrutability. Unlike Maths*, there’s probably no single task that Cold Mac does better than any more-focused utility module would. However, I think three big things make Cold Mac unique:

1. sheer density: Cold Mac is maybe 3 or 4 utility modules collapsed into a single 8HP module; so yes, Cold Mac could be quite attractive for small systems, and it probably was conceived with a small system in mind, since that’s what Trent Gil seems to himself favor; it’s a lot of functionality for the money (US$180)

2. lower-level functional design: most utility modules are designed with a primary use-case foremost in mind (a design bias) that the panel design strongly reflects, and therefore basic operation is usually somewhat obvious and intuitive, even if there are additional, secondary ways to employ the module; Cold Mac has no such use-case bias, which is why it’s not even remotely evident what the module does by looking at it; put another way, Cold Mac does not offer a cross fader, but it offers a collection of circuits, some of which can be used to create a cross fader (or other things) if you understand them and use them accordingly (through patch programming)

3. the survey knob and cv: even when packaged together, most utility modules come with their own controls; with Cold Mac, there’s only one shared control; imagine having 3-4 more typical utility modules, but with rubber bands connecting the knobs so that when you turn one, they all turn; this is obviously a limitation if you’re thinking about functions in isolation, but has hypothetical potential as a macro control to introduce or shift the animation of different strands of your patch as they pass through Cold Mac

So, Cold Mac is really about patch programming, and arguably, it out-Serges Serge in that respect. You’ve really gotta commit to it, memorize how each bit affects your signals, master the normalizations, and integrate it all into your your process. As a whole greater than the sum of its parts, that might be truly magical to some folks. To others, it’s way more trouble than it’s worth.

*Maths is pretty much unparalleled as a voltage-controlled, slew-based envelope generator

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Post by Sunden » Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:02 am

Oh I can’t believe I forgot to say this, but another classic way to use it is as 6 synced LFOs with different shapes by using a ramp to drive the survey cv with nothing parched to the inputs.

You can then start changing the shapes of the lfos with some self patching or by patching them out to the ramp that is driving survey.

I also completely had a dream last night that involved some cool way of using the rectification circuit and then the And/Or circuit I think, and I was really excited because I hardly ever use the and/or circuit and it was supposedly a really cool use and I was excited to share it on here, but now I have absolutely no idea what it was... smh...

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Post by mdoudoroff » Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:13 am

Sunden wrote:Oh I can’t believe I forgot to say this, but another classic way to use it is as 6 synced LFOs with different shapes by using a ramp to drive the survey cv with nothing parched to the inputs.

You can then start changing the shapes of the lfos with some self patching or by patching them out to the ramp that is driving survey.
Very good point. I will add this to my patching document.

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Post by Sunden » Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:14 pm

mdoudoroff wrote:
Sunden wrote:Oh I can’t believe I forgot to say this, but another classic way to use it is as 6 synced LFOs with different shapes by using a ramp to drive the survey cv with nothing parched to the inputs.

You can then start changing the shapes of the lfos with some self patching or by patching them out to the ramp that is driving survey.
Very good point. I will add this to my patching document.
Experimenting with the LFO that drives survey can start giving very interesting results.

First of all should note that with a ramp driving it, then the Crease output becomes a 180deg out of phase version of the Left out, while the Slope Out becomes a triangle wave with its peak at the start of the ramp wave driver's period.

Next, if you use a triangle wave to drive it, then the Left and Right outputs become triangle waves that are 180 degrees out of phase with each other and at half the frequency of the driving triangle wave. Meanwhile, the Slope out becomes a triangle wave at 2x the frequency of the driving triangle wave.

Then things will start getting quite interesting if you drive survey with non linear LFOs/LFOs that are being FM'd or self patched, etc.

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Post by diasporos » Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:52 pm

Couple of vids of my dual Cold Macs controlling my Mobenthey system and spreading the cv from the URA and Sport Modulator. Chaotic stuff is what I like so nothing “musical” here. First patch is mmmelodic and second is hhharmonic. Excuse the crappy iPhone mic sound.

[video][/video]

[video][/video]
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Post by potatobrain » Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:39 am

At first it was like the Cold Mac is the only one module I cannot quite imaging purpose for. But since I was a beginner I found out that CM could do things I was eventually starting thinking about. I was lake: well I need to try panning my music: well, it can do that. Mixing? Can do. Mixing cv? Can do.

So it's like a testing ground for me to understand which modules I really need in my system.

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Post by mdoudoroff » Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:27 am

Inspired by the recent dialogue here, I just made an update to my old Patching Cold Mac guide:

http://doudoroff.com/cold-mac/

Mainly, I added an introduction at the beginning and a patch surveillance example near the end.

My patch surveillance example is a little lame. I would love to replace it with a more compelling example, so if anyone here can propose one, I’m all ears!

:hyper:

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Post by Sunden » Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:48 am

Just looking at this guide for the first time. I think one thing you might want to note in your "initial" section about the circuits in isolation is why the voltages rise like that for the Left and Right outs (namely because the voltage from the other channel is getting mixed in), and then you could show how to eliminate that you just patch in a dummy cable to the unused channel.

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Post by Sunden » Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:17 pm

Also, a note about "Location"
- it doesn't chase the input voltage. It is just the input voltage integrated. In other words, imagine the input voltage represents "velocity" and the output represents "position."

if you hold the input voltage at +.5v, the output will move towards 5v albeit very slowly, until it arrives at 5v and stops. Let's say you change it to -.5v, then it will start moving towards -5v slowly, until it reaches there. If you set the input to 5v, it will move towards +5v as rapidly as possible. If you set the input voltage to 0v, it will freeze in place because its velocity is now 0, so it holds its current position.

It is inaccurate to say the it chases the input voltage, but accurate to say it moves in the same direction as the input (aka positive or negative) with a rate proportional to the input voltage.

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Post by mdoudoroff » Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:24 pm

Sunden wrote:Also, a note about "Location"
- it doesn't chase the input voltage. It is just the input voltage integrated. In other words, imagine the input voltage represents "velocity" and the output represents "position."

if you hold the input voltage at +.5v, the output will move towards 5v albeit very slowly, until it arrives at 5v and stops. Let's say you change it to -.5v, then it will start moving towards -5v slowly, until it reaches there. If you set the input to 5v, it will move towards +5v as rapidly as possible. If you set the input voltage to 0v, it will freeze in place because its velocity is now 0, so it holds its current position.

It is inaccurate to say the it chases the input voltage, but accurate to say it moves in the same direction as the input (aka positive or negative) with a rate proportional to the input voltage.
Egad. Yeah, so much of this thing was drafted so long ago and… yeah… that whole section sucks. I just posted some quick corrections—including yours—but I need to re-write the section entirely. Thanks!

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Post by gb2 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:53 pm

mdoudoroff
thanks for doing this at all!
your guide was the reason i got one, and even though i didn't spend enough time with it yet, i rearranged my whole rack to give it the center position - because i know it will do wonders to any patch!

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Post by vidret » Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:02 pm

Yeah, thx mdoud - when I first wondered what cm did that site of yours made it clear instantly, also the pics were great

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