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Patching between Euro and 5U
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> 5U Format Modules  
Author Patching between Euro and 5U
el_hombre
OK so I posted this question on the thoughts on dotcom thread and it was suggested I start a new thread, so my question is this: I'm thinking of starting a rack of euro modules to add a bit of that flavour to my dotcom system.
Are there any technical/logistical considerations I need to keep in mind before I start down that path?
Voltage incompatibilities etc?

I know pretty much nothing about euro but so far I'm liking the idea of having a small case of Pittsburgh stuff to throw a little something extra in there. Any thoughts, suggestions, reprimands, alternate suggestions?
el_hombre
Oh also if there's already another thread that goes through this, or anything like that, please post links!
diophantine
Others have a lot more experience with this than I do, but I've done some live collaborations patching between my dotcom system and a friend's euro system.

Short story: it depends. hihi

But really, it does... it depends what eurorack modules/manufacturers you're using. It depends if you're going EU->MU, MU->EU, or MU<->EU. And it depends how much you care.

My experience was that some modules played together just fine, and other modules had varying degrees of issues. By "issues" I don't mean actual problems with the modules, but just that some CV signals felt weak, and some gate signals had trouble triggering certain modules. It was clearly better going from Dotcom -> Eurorack - I don't remember my friend having any issues with signals that I was passing to him. While the non-triggering gates were an problem, some of the weaker CV signals were already going to be attenuated, so no problem there (hence the "don't care").

What I'd personally suggest is to save room in one system or the other for some voltage processors (attenuation, gain, offset) and possibly a buffered multiple. But I would wait until I saw what the problems (if any) were before picking those up.

Hope that helps! Unfortunately I don't have any experience with the Pittsburgh modules, but perhaps others do.
diophantine
I just took a look at the Pittsburgh site, and they publish specs on a handful of their modules

The Pittsburgh Dual VCA has a CV range of 0-5V. The Dotcom VCA operates on a 0-5V CV range.

The Pittsburgh MIDI module outputs +5V gates, as does the Dotcom MIDI module.

This is rather promising, because if Pittsburgh modules work together as well as Dotcom modules work together, they should* be compatible with no more gain/offset/etc. than you'd need in a standalone system of either flavor.

Unfortunately, I didn't see anything about their audio signal voltages!

* usual disclaimers apply. razz
el_hombre
Hmmm, this is sounding pretty promising though!
xclark
I've had no issues whatsoever patching between 5U and Euro. Been doing it for a few years now.
Ockeghem
Plug and play!
Sort of. hihi
Plug, play, adjust levels hastily, repeat.
sduck
I wouldn't worry too much about possible signal level mismatches. Figuring that stuff out makes things interesting.

Just buy a pile of these things - http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-Cable-CMP-303-3-5-TS/dp/B000068O3G - and have fun!
eolianmollisol
I put a 19 inch rack mount patch pay with 1/4 inch jacks in my eurorack case and put 1/8 inch adapters in the bottom jacks so I could patch between my euro and 5U. Worked out well for me cause I already had the patch bay and the jacks were cheaper than buying cables! You can get used patch bays for around 40 bucks too and they come in handy in general to just have in a modular system.
HowDoIKnow
I've had no problems runing a Turing machine +Voltages into my dotcom system. I am DIYing a Buffered Mult to see if it will get around the problem whereby the TR drops its sequences if it is clocked from a mult'd source....but I guess that is not a dotcom <-> Euro issue as such.

hdik
facklr
...wait a minute...

Are you guys saying that I can get a small 5U system and inegrate it with my euro system easily?

The last time I looked into this (quite a few months ago), it seemed like the conversion process was much more difficult.

So, I can send a 5U VCO, such as the DotCom Q106 into my Pittsburgh Filter to a Doepfer VCA and then sequence the Q106 with my ER-101? And then run a second sequence into my Verbos Complex OSC into, say...a Q107...and then bring that signal back into the Euro?

And it will work?

Yes? eek!
Dave Peck
It's very easy to patch a Euro modular synth and a 5U modular synth together, assuming that these are already two functioning separate synths and each has it's own power supply. It's usually just a matter of patch cord adapters and maybe sometimes some signal attenuation or offset supplied by any number of simple modules that provide that function.

But that is not the same as integrating Euro modules into a 5U synth or integrating 5U modules into a Euro synth. THAT is more elaborate because Euro modules and 5U modules required different types of DC power supplies and have different types of internal DC power connectors. It can still be done, but it's not as simple as just patching two different synths together.
facklr
Dave Peck wrote:
...already two functioning separate synths and each has it's own power supply...

...not the same as integrating Euro modules into a 5U synth or integrating 5U modules into a Euro synth. THAT is more elaborate....


The first part is what I thought and meant, and you have confirmed it perfectly. The second part is what seemed so initially complex, and up until today I thought it was the only way. It's great to know now that it is so much simpler. Thanks!
Dave Peck
Yup, for that you just need to get some 1/8" mono to 1/4" mono patch cord adapters and start patching!
kindredlost
Very compatible. I have both the Hosa cables sduck pointed to and a DIY patch bay to convert the cable dilemma.

The only thing you really have to do to be fully compatible is trim your ponytail and buy a skateboard.

FUUUCCKKKK!!! Skate or die!
facklr
kindredlost wrote:


The only thing you really have to do to be fully compatible is trim your ponytail and buy a skateboard.

FUUUCCKKKK!!! Skate or die!


I have two OG Lance Mountains and cut off my long hair in 1996!!! I'm so close to that phat Moog bass!!! Rockin' Banana!
Squattamolie
Well, if you're currently MU and want to add Euro, I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the absolute most perilous part of doing this.

For every MU module on the BST, there's a hundred Euro modules. hihi Never maintain cash savings again
Dave Peck
Squattamolie wrote:

For every MU module on the BST, there's a hundred Euro modules. hihi Never maintain cash savings again


Yeah, but the OP said he was thinking of STARTING to do this.

He didn't ask about how to STOP doing it.

MY ASS IS BLEEDING MY ASS IS BLEEDING MY ASS IS BLEEDING MY ASS IS BLEEDING
AlanP


I bought a bag of these from Ebay, problem solved smile
Dave Peck
AlanP wrote:


I bought a bag of these from Ebay, problem solved smile


I hope you didn't buy the kind in that picture - it's not a mono T/S adapter, it's a stereo T/R/S adapter. See those two black bands near the tip? You want the kind with only ONE black band.
el_hombre
Dave Peck wrote:
Squattamolie wrote:

For every MU module on the BST, there's a hundred Euro modules. hihi Never maintain cash savings again


Yeah, but the OP said he was thinking of STARTING to do this.

He didn't ask about how to STOP doing it.

MY ASS IS BLEEDING MY ASS IS BLEEDING MY ASS IS BLEEDING MY ASS IS BLEEDING

Heh, yes, there is this-_-
For now I'm gonna try to keep it small though.
For practical purposes more than anything.
eolianmollisol
Dave Peck wrote:
AlanP wrote:


I bought a bag of these from Ebay, problem solved smile


I hope you didn't buy the kind in that picture - it's not a mono T/S adapter, it's a stereo T/R/S adapter. See those two black bands near the tip? You want the kind with only ONE black band.


what happens to the signal if you use a mono cable plugged into this 1/8 inch to 1/4 inch TRS adapter then plug the TRS into a mono jack?
ActionMaxVA
This thread came in handy tonight reassuring me.

I have been cross patching and not had any problems.

I need to up my attenuator game as well as my wave shaping.
celeste_temple
[/quote]what happens to the signal if you use a mono cable plugged into this 1/8 inch to 1/4 inch TRS adapter then plug the TRS into a mono jack?[/quote]

TRS cables are used either for stereo signals or for balanced mono signals.

Sending mono TS to "stereo" TRS to mono TS loses no information; 1st TS provides no 2nd channel to TRS ; 2nd TS reads no 2d channel from TRS even if it were there. Always mono in, mono out.

In the case of a balanced line, the third signal duplicates and cancels the ground for purposes of reducing noise. Same deal -- re TS -> TRS, a balanced line can't be made balanced ; re TRS -> TS, any balanced line becomes unbalanced. Always unbalanced in, unbalanced out.

(note that: This the practical not the theoretical answer -- leaving out cool but totally off-point info about differential signals and baluns &c that I had to learn for my FCC license but have never used.)

Problem with the adapter pictured though is that it's a headphone adapter with screw threads ! mechanically incompatible with your € cables I'm afraid.
Faustgeist
Patching CV & audio between euro and 5u is really quite easy.

Mixing their power sources can be challenge.

One approach you may want to have to avoid hum and noise issues is to be sure both powe sources share the same ground (plugged into the same outlet). And hopefully your house ground is good smile

My 2cents,
-R
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