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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Trigger Riot or Circadian Rhythm or expanded QCD or ...?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules  
Author Trigger Riot or Circadian Rhythm or expanded QCD or ...?
Jumbuktu
First off, I already have an expanded QCD plus PLOG, G8 and Branches so the default option is 'do nothing'.

The QCD is great, but I keep running out of channels. I could just get another one, I guess. However, I am exploring options from some of the newer alternatives.

I don't make techno or house or any other dance style. A key requirement for me is to not be locked into pattern lengths that are multiples of 2 (4, 8, 16 etc). I also need to have multiple independent patterns, with different lengths, for poly-rhythms.

I like modules that provide scope for subtle, evolving change, particularly with a random element.

From reading the manual, I suspect Circadian Rhythms is based around even pattern lengths, more suited to conventional 4-beat rhythms. Trigger Riot looks like it would do what I want. I have a Z8000 already, which I like a lot.

If I added a Trigger Riot, I would have to drop the QCD and Expander, due to space and cost. Would I miss it much?

The main thing that makes me hesitate on the Riot is the few threads I have seen here that suggest that it hasn't worked for some Wigglers the way they might have expected. If you are one of these, I would appreciate some commentary as to whether you ended up keeping it or not, and, if so, the reasons.

Thanks in advance.
exper
Trigger Riot is quit amazing TBH. What you'd miss, would be Cv control if that matters to you. But it does so much, and is far more that just typical synced 4/4 patterns. It can get quite experimental and random if you wish it to. Even though its a large module, and I wish I had more space, I don't think there's much that would make me get rid of mine...
memes_33
I love my flame clock works for similar duties, but it's hecka big too
thelizard
I had a Trigger Riot, but sold it promptly after getting the QCD+BO. Here's a sound example of what I'm doing with the QCD:
https://soundcloud.com/the-february-thaw/warps-clouds-drums

[s]https://soundcloud.com/the-february-thaw/warps-clouds-drums[/s]

The main thing that I love about the QCD is that it can do a "push-pull" rhythm in a very musical fashion, as it locks onto subdivisions of the current tempo for each clock. If you listen to the piece, you can hear a distinct primary pulse while the granulated hi-hats skitter around it.

The QPLFO is an excellent expansion as well, as you then have synchronized modulations, which are perfect to plug back into the QCD.

Trigger Riot always felt pretty static and mechanical to me, unless I was clocking it from somewhere else. Sure, you could enable probability functionality, but it's still the same rhythm with holes poked through it.
Stancotey
Ditto here for Trigger Riot. I don't have a QCD to compare with and haven't had any issues with my TR, but I would like to offer up that one of my favorite aspects of TR is that you can edit and make changes while it is running, and it's lots of fun to just blindly explore different divide ratios, lengths, offsets, probabilities, pulse widths, etc on the four available channels per output.

It is very easy to get extremely complex rhythms going quickly. For me the learning process was short and while I read the manual before I purchased it, it was much easier to learn that I thought it would be. For a perspective disclaimer though I love math. cool

Also, mine has been very precise with external clocks, which I really appreciate! I use it mostly with an Audio Damage Sequencer 1, a Rene, an expanded Turing Machine and a bunch of Quadra channels and it's been super inspiring.
Jumbuktu
thelizard wrote:

Trigger Riot always felt pretty static and mechanical to me, unless I was clocking it from somewhere else. Sure, you could enable probability functionality, but it's still the same rhythm with holes poked through it.


Thanks, this is exactly the kind of detailed feedback i was looking for.
Kummer
Not Euro, but maybe something like this:

http://www.squarp.net

I plan on getting one of these at some point in the future as it looks like it has most every feature I could think of wanting in a hardware sequencer.

Edit: The main downside however is the limited number of CV outs... so you would probably need to get a midi to CV converter to really utilize it.
Jumbuktu
thelizard wrote:


The QPLFO is an excellent expansion as well, as you then have synchronized modulations, which are perfect to plug back into the QCD.



Something I hadn't thought of. It wouldn't give me any more channels, but it does expand the modulation possibilities, feeding back into PW and multiply CVs. Can you have both the QPLFO and the QCD expander connected at once?
devslashnull
Jumbuktu wrote:
thelizard wrote:


The QPLFO is an excellent expansion as well, as you then have synchronized modulations, which are perfect to plug back into the QCD.



Something I hadn't thought of. It wouldn't give me any more channels, but it does expand the modulation possibilities, feeding back into PW and multiply CVs. Can you have both the QPLFO and the QCD expander connected at once?


yep I asked Dan about this a while back, you can use both at the same time.
Jumbuktu
thelizard wrote:
I had a Trigger Riot, but sold it promptly after getting the QCD+BO.


PS What's BO?
thelizard
Jumbuktu wrote:
thelizard wrote:
I had a Trigger Riot, but sold it promptly after getting the QCD+BO.


PS What's BO?


QCD "Breakout". I meant expander hahah. There are too many 4ms acronyms flying around!

To answer the above questions, yes, you can have the QCD expander and the QPLFO connected at the same time. The Expander connects to the QCD's Expander header, while the "Outs" QCD header connects to the "Ins" QPLFO header. Furthermore, I have a SISM connected to my QPLFO, and an RCD receiving clocks from the QCD via the bus board. Simply tapping twice on the QCD creates so much action in this setup.

One suggestion for crazy rhythms in your setup: connect three channels of the QCD to your Plog and set it to OR mode. Modulate the PW on the QCD Expander. Depending on the divisions and pulse width, the clocks will interfere in interesting ways.

This is, in general, how the Trigger Riot works. You have four clocks in each row and column that are combined in an OR fashion. Since you have voltage control over division/multiplication (QCD), pulse width (QCD), probability (Branches), and logic (Plog), you already have most of a Trigger Riot but with way more CV. The primary advantage of the Trigger Riot over this setup is preset storage.
Zank Frappa
This sounds great - looks like I need to look closer at those modules...
thelizard wrote:
I had a Trigger Riot, but sold it promptly after getting the QCD+BO. Here's a sound example of what I'm doing with the QCD:
https://soundcloud.com/the-february-thaw/warps-clouds-drums

[s]https://soundcloud.com/the-february-thaw/warps-clouds-drums[/s]

The main thing that I love about the QCD is that it can do a "push-pull" rhythm in a very musical fashion, as it locks onto subdivisions of the current tempo for each clock. If you listen to the piece, you can hear a distinct primary pulse while the granulated hi-hats skitter around it.

The QPLFO is an excellent expansion as well, as you then have synchronized modulations, which are perfect to plug back into the QCD.

Trigger Riot always felt pretty static and mechanical to me, unless I was clocking it from somewhere else. Sure, you could enable probability functionality, but it's still the same rhythm with holes poked through it.
Kytopia
I have own all of the modules you are asking about and I have different uses for each of them.

The CR excels at being a triggerstep sequencer. very straight forward, easy to work with and some nice microtiming options to play with. I use it a lot for drums but it also works wonders as an expansion to any pitch sequencer (set the pitch sequencer at a slower rate and enjoy all the ratcheting you need).

The QCD+expander is loads of fun when trying to break free from the 16 step limitation. cv into the division/mult input is instant EDM fun. it's not a prime sequencer in my opinion (not without a good set of OR combiners) but it sure does the trick as a great utility. would view this more as an expansion to your sequencers.

The TR is the most experimental of the lot in my eyes. as a straight forward pattern sequencer it can become a bit stale and even boring to work with, sometimes its a bit frustrating when you're menu diving to get off-beat patterns. however, it greatly makes up for that due to its probability, its variable gate lengths and through that its more unexpected uses. one of the most fun results I'm experiencing come from seting up the TR with a very low probability. then I use the TR output as clock sources for my other sequencers and gates etc. just adding a few constants immediately gets all kinds of rhythms related to the masterpulse which seem completely random as soon as you take that main pulse out of it. here's a recording of the first time I tried this. skip a bit towards the middle to hear everything picking up a bit.

[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/194614739" params="color=ff5500&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments= true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false" width="100%" height="166" iframe="true" /]

my conclusion: keep the QCD at all times, then depending on what direction you want to go, consider the CR for more straight forward stuff or the TR for the more experimental realm. can't really go wrong either way. put em all together for wiggly madness screaming goo yo
Jumbuktu
thelizard wrote:
[

One suggestion for crazy rhythms in your setup: connect three channels of the QCD to your Plog and set it to OR mode. Modulate the PW on the QCD Expander. Depending on the divisions and pulse width, the clocks will interfere in interesting ways.



Thanks. I don't have any problems getting interesting rhythms out of my current setup in similar ways to what you describe. My original post was about getting more channels. At the moment, I use up everything just generating enough triggers for a couple of voices with accents, and I want to use slow gates for CV controlled mixing as well.

My conclusion - maybe the way to go is to just add another QCD (and ditch something else to make room for it).

PS great track examples by the way!
DerGeist
I love the trigger riot because things never quite turn out the way I expect them too. I find with a lot of sequencers (computer, euro, outboard, etc.) I end up creating very similar beats. The trigger riot is great for when you are in a beat rut. Wiggle the knobs and who knows what you will get. It could get annoying I suppose if you had something specific in mind.

I also love the horizontal and vertical gate outs. When I setup a beat on a horizantal row, out of the vertical CV outputs is almost always perfectly timed to pluck a filter or start an LFO at an interesting and musical point.

It is also great for triggering a sequencer like Rene rythmically. I never use Rene's pause functions any more.
Ish
As a wiggler with both the QCD and Expander, Lizard's comment just elevated Plog in my "must buy" list. I had never considered running three outs of QCD through an OR table..

.... but one question: how does this differ from running those QCD outs into a mixer, or does it at all? I know Plog is functionally superior to this for many reasons (not least its other features), but the only functional difference I can imagine is a mixer *might* be additive, where an OR wouldn't be (e.g. if all three inputs were high at the same time the resulting voltage would be x3, baring any technical limits on this process). I'm just unsure if this is likely or common (it would be additive to a point, right? Like to the rail voltage?).
thelizard
Ish wrote:
As a wiggler with both the QCD and Expander, Lizard's comment just elevated Plog in my "must buy" list. I had never considered running three outs of QCD through an OR table..

.... but one question: how does this differ from running those QCD outs into a mixer, or does it at all? I know Plog is functionally superior to this for many reasons (not least its other features), but the only functional difference I can imagine is a mixer *might* be additive, where an OR wouldn't be (e.g. if all three inputs were high at the same time the resulting voltage would be x3, baring any technical limits on this process). I'm just unsure if this is likely or common (it would be additive to a point, right? Like to the rail voltage?).


Using a mixer works just fine. However, some triggered modules are "velocity sensitive," although it's pretty rare in Eurorack (Synthrotek's DS-M comes to mind). Yes, they will be additive, but because the mixer just clips off signals that are too loud, it won't hurt anything.

A mixer is flexible because you can change the levels of each gate individually, giving you a really interesting sequencer if you use the output for CV instead of gates. Try it out if you haven't already! Bipolar mixers work exceptionally well for this. It's part of the reason that the QCD can be normaled to a SISM.

The Plog's difference is that the outputs are always the same voltage level, no matter the amplitude of the incoming gates, or how many are firing at once. With the Plog, you also have the ability to change the logic type with voltage control. You can quickly switch between a rhythm and its inverse, for instance. Plus, because a lot of the inputs are normaled together, plugging in two channels of QCD will give you two variations, along with a /2 and /4 output of one of those variations (The flip-flops act as clock dividers for the right logic portion as long as nothing else is plugged into them).
Jumbuktu
thelizard wrote:

With the Plog, you also have the ability to change the logic type with voltage control. You can quickly switch between a rhythm and its inverse, for instance. Plus, because a lot of the inputs are normaled together, plugging in two channels of QCD will give you two variations, along with a /2 and /4 output of one of those variations (The flip-flops act as clock dividers for the right logic portion as long as nothing else is plugged into them).


Second this. If he wants a cheaper and smaller solution, Intellijel has a 2hp OR combiner that just does the OR part of the equation. The PLOG is well worth it for all the other logic combos, voltage control and the flip-flops.
Evsey
thelizard wrote:
I had a Trigger Riot, but sold it promptly after getting the QCD+BO. Here's a sound example of what I'm doing with the QCD:
https://soundcloud.com/the-february-thaw/warps-clouds-drums

[s]https://soundcloud.com/the-february-thaw/warps-clouds-drums[/s]

The main thing that I love about the QCD is that it can do a "push-pull" rhythm in a very musical fashion, as it locks onto subdivisions of the current tempo for each clock. If you listen to the piece, you can hear a distinct primary pulse while the granulated hi-hats skitter around it.

The QPLFO is an excellent expansion as well, as you then have synchronized modulations, which are perfect to plug back into the QCD.

Trigger Riot always felt pretty static and mechanical to me, unless I was clocking it from somewhere else. Sure, you could enable probability functionality, but it's still the same rhythm with holes poked through it.


please let me know, if you are still using QCD with all the expanders. You audio is really interesting
Arneb
Have you looked at the Euclidean* Circles? It has its limitations; notably, no gates**, no CV, no shuffle, one master clock input to bind them all, and only a very limited random mode. Seems to me that most of those limitations aren't that relevant if you can use it together with the QCD+Expander. What the EC does have though is 6 trigger channels of independent non-power-of-2 length on 10HP***, which is a lot less than the 28 of the TR.

* Despite the name, the new version (v2) can also be a 6-channel non-Euclidean step sequencer
** There's a gate-ish "toggle" mode, but I'm afraid that's too limited for gate sequencing purposes.
*** 12HP if you get it with the expansion, which is simply kill/mute switches for each individual channel.
Evsey
Arneb wrote:
Have you looked at the Euclidean* Circles? It has its limitations; notably, no gates**, no CV, no shuffle, one master clock input to bind them all, and only a very limited random mode. Seems to me that most of those limitations aren't that relevant if you can use it together with the QCD+Expander. What the EC does have though is 6 trigger channels of independent non-power-of-2 length on 10HP***, which is a lot less than the 28 of the TR.

* Despite the name, the new version (v2) can also be a 6-channel non-Euclidean step sequencer
** There's a gate-ish "toggle" mode, but I'm afraid that's too limited for gate sequencing purposes.
*** 12HP if you get it with the expansion, which is simply kill/mute switches for each individual channel.


Yes, it has some appeal. But for me today is Trigger Riot Vs QCD+BO+QCDLFO is the question.
Just want some generic beat with out programming))
PhineasFreak
bear in mind trigger riot can be synced to an external beat but has p much zero cvontrol - its very set and forget - so if you have any interest in varying the output put generative style youre limited to a degree...
Parnelli
I have a Trigger Riot, which I purchased first, as well as a Circadian Rhythms.

I picked up the TR as a trigger sequencer for my drum modules early on. I liked it, but it seemed canned to me, and as mentioned has no CV save being externally clockable.

Next I put together a 4ms Shuffling Clock Multiplier and Breakout which gave me the ability to play with cv timing a bit, and saw that it was good.

Then I picked up the CR to sync up to the TR but still had that canned feel to me, though it's great I decided to head in a different direction, enter Plog. I broke out a Pittsburgh Time Runner that I rarely used and began exploring logic, which I already had a basic understanding of. I focused on logic modules for timing with things like the Party Logic and would play with Maths to slide beats into odd places.

I wanted a burst generator after reading about Befaco's Burst and started looking into them while waiting for the Burst to arrive. Enter fate and a great sale on a Qbit Pulsar and I rolled the dice on it instead. I had difficulty at first getting it to do exactly what I wanted, but I soon had it up and running. Though it didn't quite work out as I thought in one area it worked out most excellently in many others! With 4 channels it does drums nice, and with cv you can move things around a bit.

The CR and TR have been up at the top of the rack where they seldom get used since I've wen't the logic route, not because of anything bad, but because I'm having a riot with the other toys and have been for a while now.

I'm thinking that the CR and TR being great dividers I'm looking at them to master other timing circuits that will give me the ability to interface with the CR each channel to mute/change/unmute separate parts, I just haven't gotten that far yet.

I really like the flexibility of logic modules, especially when you can cv them a bit.
Evsey
PhineasFreak wrote:
bear in mind trigger riot can be synced to an external beat but has p much zero cvontrol - its very set and forget - so if you have any interest in varying the output put generative style youre limited to a degree...


yes, I totally understand that!
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