MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index
 FAQ & Terms of UseFAQ & Terms Of Use   Wiggler RadioMW Radio   Muff Wiggler TwitterTwitter   Support the site @ PatreonPatreon 
 SearchSearch   RegisterSign up   Log inLog in 
WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Live Sampler Module?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next [all]
Author Live Sampler Module?
Eloc
Looks really impressive
Sandrine
mxmxmx wrote:
semantics apart, shouldn't it be "réflexe involontaire"?


Oui, c'est vrai, mais le dernier "e" ne marche pas, meme l'accent aigu. Even though I'm officially bilingual, I missed the "u" haha! Thanks mxmxmx :blush:
Sandrine
After lots of design work, and other work(not fun!) I've come to a bit of an impasse. It became obvious That the T/G input selector for Play and Record Trigger/Gate's would need to be separate.
So I've crowded a second one in there.

Problem is, the toggles stick up a ways, and it's kind of right in the way of the Record button now, for easy access anyway.




So, in trying to keep the size of this module down, what I'm thinking is to go over to more little tact buttons with LEDs instead...




These buttons will stick out some, but so big like the toggles.

I'd appreciate any feedback!

So, there's a few extra features and changes since I last posted on the Muff,

Rate Knob:
This will be a real Pot, not an encoder. It has only 2 functions, to set sample rate, or to select a slice manually for tweaking.

Slice Play Automation:
In real time, recorded slices can be "played" using the Slice Button (or T/G input) and the Rate Knob. (or SL.V CV Slice selector)
The Rate Knob can select the slices, as a beat is being drummed out on the button, and once done, the downbeat can be tapped onto the REC button, which terminates the Automation Recording and begins to Play it.
If S.SEL or Slice Select is off, then the Slice's sample rate can be recorded as it's being modified by the Rate Knob, or a CV input on SL.V.
Even cooler, if the Slice Selector is on, the Rate knob can be used to select slices, while the RATECV changes the sample rate for each.
Can't wait to program this one!

SLICE & PLAY priority:

If a Slice is being played, say in a loop, PLAY can jump on to it and Granulize, miniLoop around, or instantly change the start/end inside the slice.
Once the Slice is released, the Play will stay inside the slice until released.
If PLAY, on the other hand is in progress, then a playing a slice will momentarily override the play (and Start/End/Gmove/position stuff) to just play the slice.

Playing Record:

During a record, Play and Slice will work, without interrupting the record!
This is really useful for playing slices off a sequencer, while still recording and creating slices (manually or via T/G input). As the slice count grows, so does the range/resolution of slices accessed proportionately.
If the Slice Play Option has been set to "Notes", then the Slice Select CV will be regarded as CV Notes, which means the slices, once assigned to a "note" will always stay the same. A note that doesn't yet have a slice will be rolled around to play an equiv. slice already recorded.

One cool thing is if in Echo Mode, the Play Gran/reverse/looping will be fed into the echo, which can be heard afterwards trailing off.

16 Slice Display:
Slices, when being selected, will be displayed in the knob circle, on the Red LEDs. 1-8, then with the yellow LED 9-16. After that, if there's more slices, the yellow will toggle every 8.
It's crude, but it's pretty easy to use!

Echo Variable Record Sample Rate:
As my original Sampler has this, I only felt right putting it on the Reflexe. The rate initially will be 48KHz until a second Record tap (T/G event) sets the echo time, then the Yellow circle LED will indicate 48KHz. The Center of the Rate Knob must be passed to change the sample rate. This is so it doesn't suddenly jump.
With RATE CV input on the other hand, anything goes!
Turning up/down the Rate knob during echo mode will increase/decrease the echo time as well.

There's so many other things that can be done, but I'll have to stop here for fear of turning this post into a user manual!

Having fun with this!

Cheers!
Padrat
Good lord, talk about density! You've thought of everything!
PK808370
Not surprised you thought of everything! Do I understand correctly that you built a boat? (your link on a previous page) It is fantastic Clap
meatbeatz
looking good!!
Sandrine
PK808370 wrote:
Not surprised you thought of everything! Do I understand correctly that you built a boat? (your link on a previous page) It is fantastic Clap


Oh really? I don't remember that! I usually try to keep my electronic life and sailing life separate hehe

I couldn't have done it without Gena, my alternate self

Thanks Padrat and Meatbeatz, any suggestions? hmmm.....
meatbeatz
Sandrine wrote:


Thanks Padrat and Meatbeatz, any suggestions? hmmm.....


If I was to split hairs... I would've grouped the AC input and output jacks as a L/R pair. When I get a chance I'll look back through the thread and if something comes to mind I'll let you know. Top job so far! thumbs up
Sandrine
meatbeatz wrote:
Sandrine wrote:


Thanks Padrat and Meatbeatz, any suggestions? hmmm.....


If I was to split hairs... I would've grouped the AC input and output jacks as a L/R pair. When I get a chance I'll look back through the thread and if something comes to mind I'll let you know. Top job so far! thumbs up


Thanks Meatbbeatz!

Yes, I have been looking at that too. The reason it is like that is because of the intended "Expander" module and the way the 2 channels can be split up.
The left can be the FX channel, with all the MiniLoop/Granulizer/reverse/stutter/Slice and pitch shift stuff, while the Right can be a tempo/free layer looper and echo simultaneously. So they've been kept separate.

But as the programming advances, the two are getting a bit blurred, so those may change. I know it makes more sense.
If I switched the FX side (for with expander panel) to the right, it could still be labelled as such.

I've also been playing with the Start/End Loop CV input control voltage range. It is presently positive input only, but I'm torn between that, and making them full range -5V to +5V. The knobs become summing controls as it sits, not attenuators.

Thanks for the suggestion MB!
glennfin
WOW!! eek! Awesome!... I've been away from the forum for a while (life gets in the way) and discovered this! amazing.... I'll ask the obvious question... when will it be available? and I'm assuming this won't be a kit although I'd sure like that...
Sandrine
glennfin wrote:
WOW!! eek! Awesome!... I've been away from the forum for a while (life gets in the way) and discovered this! amazing.... I'll ask the obvious question... when will it be available? and I'm assuming this won't be a kit although I'd sure like that...


I'm never away from Da Wiggla! Carry my little notebook everywhere, except if I'm doing concrete work or under someone's house (That'd be just weird!)

DIY? We're trying to make it more DIY-able, but there's a lot of SMD stuff.
I was thinking on having an audio processing board that is separate from the panel board, which wil be entirely DIY-able, then just plug in the processor board (which I'm not doing after this prototype, machines can do it better!)

Then, finally on the back will be an off-the-shelf Arduino Atmega 2560 with USB, so it'll be easily updatable via the USB cord included (from me or other source)

I can source all of the parts for a kit as they're here already.
7 pots, 15 jacks, 4 12x12 Buttons & Caps, 7 mini tact buttons, 31 3mm LEDs, a 5mm RGB LED, 4 Davies knobs, a Marshall knob, M/F 40 pin 2.54mm double header(or 2x20), headers for power, Expansion interconnect, the Atmega, and the Atmega board itself would be the BOM pretty much.

The big confusion around here is whether to make the Arduino SW open source (that'd mean taking out swear words etc from the Rem statements and organizing things a bit...not my thing)

Things are zipping right along otherwise, and I forecast the first of these will be available within a month. Definitely before Xmas! I'm accustomed to getting things done quickly.
meatbeatz
Sandrine wrote:
Yes, I have been looking at that too. The reason it is like that is because of the intended "Expander" module and the way the 2 channels can be split up.
The left can be the FX channel, with all the MiniLoop/Granulizer/reverse/stutter/Slice and pitch shift stuff, while the Right can be a tempo/free layer looper and echo simultaneously. So they've been kept separate.


I see. In that case I'd leave as is. It definitely makes more sense that way. I like where you are going with this badboi. applause
meatbeatz
Sandrine wrote:
That has given me a couple of ideas though!

A port to link multiple units together so they sync from any master

.. and

A DC (not decoupled) input switch to allow sampling of CV voltage direct (using existing CV control input) so a CV can be recorded instead of audio. This would be a mode I suppose.

Are these good/useful?


YES! Has CV recording already been implemented?
Sandrine
meatbeatz wrote:
Sandrine wrote:
That has given me a couple of ideas though!

A port to link multiple units together so they sync from any master

.. and

A DC (not decoupled) input switch to allow sampling of CV voltage direct (using existing CV control input) so a CV can be recorded instead of audio. This would be a mode I suppose.

Are these good/useful?


YES! Has CV recording already been implemented?


Oh no! That was the previous previous version, we've decided to break that away and create a complete CV recorder module more tuned to the task. edit-(also underway, no facia as of yet!) There were too many compromises and the way many parts are handled with CV would be much better off tuned specifically for that.
On the other hand, a 20 Hz+ moving CV could be recorded, but it has to keep moving or it will be lost. Also it wouldn't be linear, which..er might be interesting nanners

On your previous post, it's got me thinking! Decisions decisions...
meatbeatz
Sandrine wrote:
Oh no! That was the previous previous version, we've decided to break that away and create a complete CV recorder module more tuned to the task. edit-(also underway, no facia as of yet!)


even better!
glennfin
I don't have a problem with the SMD stuff, that's what I do at my day job very frustrating but I can see that being an issue for many folks. A pre-made / assembled (machine wave soldered) processor board is probably a good idea. Swear words in REM statements... that's funny...

Looking forward to this. Thanks for all the hard work!



Sandrine wrote:
glennfin wrote:
WOW!! eek! Awesome!... I've been away from the forum for a while (life gets in the way) and discovered this! amazing.... I'll ask the obvious question... when will it be available? and I'm assuming this won't be a kit although I'd sure like that...


I'm never away from Da Wiggla! Carry my little notebook everywhere, except if I'm doing concrete work or under someone's house (That'd be just weird!)

DIY? We're trying to make it more DIY-able, but there's a lot of SMD stuff.
I was thinking on having an audio processing board that is separate from the panel board, which wil be entirely DIY-able, then just plug in the processor board (which I'm not doing after this prototype, machines can do it better!)

Then, finally on the back will be an off-the-shelf Arduino Atmega 2560 with USB, so it'll be easily updatable via the USB cord included (from me or other source)

I can source all of the parts for a kit as they're here already.
7 pots, 15 jacks, 4 12x12 Buttons & Caps, 7 mini tact buttons, 31 3mm LEDs, a 5mm RGB LED, 4 Davies knobs, a Marshall knob, M/F 40 pin 2.54mm double header(or 2x20), headers for power, Expansion interconnect, the Atmega, and the Atmega board itself would be the BOM pretty much.

The big confusion around here is whether to make the Arduino SW open source (that'd mean taking out swear words etc from the Rem statements and organizing things a bit...not my thing)

Things are zipping right along otherwise, and I forecast the first of these will be available within a month. Definitely before Xmas! I'm accustomed to getting things done quickly.
mOBiTh
I'm also up for a complete DIY-SMD build but I know it's not for everyone.

Keep the swear words wink
brother303
I would vote for presoldered smd and diy-th...

Guinness ftw!
Sandrine
There is one 0.50mm pitch chip that is a bugger without anything but a hot air station, although I have done them with a fine tip and extra long pads to run off to.

Keeping the audio processor board pre-fab is the way I'm going, as the resistors and caps can be 402 size, thus saving a lot of space/extra board.

I have been battling with an issue with CV inputs:



Which voltage range and offset or attenuation should there be for the Rate, Start/End, and slice controls?
The EQ CV would probably be best +/- 5V, zero V being flat response. The control when jacked in becomes an attenuvertor.
The Rate CV on the other hand might be better with an offset (on the adj knob) rather than an attenuvertor, although the big Rate knob could act as an offset (when not selected to control something else)
The Start/End CV's were initially going to be just 0-5V, but now I'm thinking +/- 5V with the knobs controlling offset.
The Slice select CV, which is the most difficult to decide, is presently +/-5V to match CV note range, but I can see uses for 0-5V.

Does anyone (with infinite wisdom and patching experience we're not worthy ) have any preferences or thoughts on this?
Quasi
This looks amazing. You have literally thought of everything!!!
Maco
nanners

Nice look amazing, so we will have main core available to implement our own control panel?

Any estimate on prices?
meatbeatz
Sandrine wrote:
There is one 0.50mm pitch chip that is a bugger without anything but a hot air station, although I have done them with a fine tip and extra long pads to run off to.

Keeping the audio processor board pre-fab is the way I'm going, as the resistors and caps can be 402 size, thus saving a lot of space/extra board.

I have been battling with an issue with CV inputs:



Which voltage range and offset or attenuation should there be for the Rate, Start/End, and slice controls?
The EQ CV would probably be best +/- 5V, zero V being flat response. The control when jacked in becomes an attenuvertor.
The Rate CV on the other hand might be better with an offset (on the adj knob) rather than an attenuvertor, although the big Rate knob could act as an offset (when not selected to control something else)
The Start/End CV's were initially going to be just 0-5V, but now I'm thinking +/- 5V with the knobs controlling offset.
The Slice select CV, which is the most difficult to decide, is presently +/-5V to match CV note range, but I can see uses for 0-5V.

Does anyone (with infinite wisdom and patching experience we're not worthy ) have any preferences or thoughts on this?


I wouldn't say I have infinite wisdom but I do have patching experience. wink

With parameters like Start/End and Slice select I'd imagine wanting to use a step sequencer to dial in a specific position and as many (most?) step sequencers are 0-5V. I agree the EQ CV should be +/-5V with attenuverter.
Sandrine
Maco wrote:
nanners

Nice look amazing, so we will have main core available to implement our own control panel?

Any estimate on prices?


Yes it looks that way. It's not the core, that's deeper yet, but the interface will be.

The price isn't set yet, need to evaluate the manufacture costs, which requires a finished design for that section.
Ready-to-go will be in the $300-$500 range. I know that's quite a wide range, for now that's all I can say. It's those annoying 0.50 mm pitch chips, expensive setup etc. smile


Yes thanks Meatbeatz, that makes sense. I suppose with an offset on the Start/End inputs if an LFO or VCO or Audio was used it could be attenuated at the source.
So the Slice can be 0-5V, the only fixed value input, but with a future setting to switch to +/- 5V.
The Sample Rate CV input can be attenuated, and offset by the Rate knob.

Great Quasi!


Another thing I was monkeying with today was the Sample Rate Range. It was augmented to +/- 4 octaves for the past few days, but it's a ridiculous range for the Rate Knob! Voice samples just "squiggle" when at +4, but a bass guitar is quite legible. On the other end of the spectrum, -4 octaves is a bit more fun, slowing down complex sounds can be fun.
Then this AM I took it to +/- 5 octaves, and pretty much useless for anything, albeit interesting.
So what I'm thinking is to leave the Knob at +/- 2 octaves, but the CV (+/- 5V max range) can do the full 5 octaves.
To put this into perspective, a 1KHz tone recorded at 48KHz will range downward 500, 250, 125, 62.5, and 31.25 Hz, then upward to 2Khz, 4Khz, 8KHz, 16KHz, 32KHz.
Amer1231
So no diy option on this one ? waah
Sandrine
Amer1231 wrote:
So no diy option on this one ? waah


As I posted earlier in the thread-
Quote:
DIY? We're trying to make it more DIY-able, but there's a lot of SMD stuff.
I was thinking on having an audio processing board that is separate from the panel board, which wil be entirely DIY-able, then just plug in the processor board (which I'm not doing after this prototype, machines can do it better!)

Then, finally on the back will be an off-the-shelf Arduino Atmega 2560 with USB, so it'll be easily updatable via the USB cord included (from me or other source)

I can source all of the parts for a kit as they're here already.
7 pots, 15 jacks, 4 12x12 Buttons & Caps, 7 mini tact buttons, 31 3mm LEDs, a 5mm RGB LED, 4 Davies knobs, a Marshall knob, M/F 40 pin 2.54mm double header(or 2x20), headers for power, Expansion interconnect, the Atmega, and the Atmega board itself would be the BOM pretty much.


In trying to avoid another board layer, all of the parts on the digital audio processor section are SMD. The prototype has this separate with 2 38 pin chips,adc/dac one .65mm the other .50mm pitch. There's a .40 analog sw, a 58 pin .80mm chip, then the rest are SOIC/SOP with the exception of the controller which is a 40 pin DIP on a socket.
On the mother board there's a 28 pin SOIC and a 28 pin TSSOP (.65), then a few SOIC's. This board also seats the Atmega board.
On the panel board there's the pots, switches, LEDs, headers, and jacks.

What I'm trying to do it get all of the fine SMD chips on one board, and the less fine SOIC chips on the other board, which in combination with the panel board would make this DIY-able, save the the digital audio processor board.

Sure, I could make the boards available, but with anything less than a re-flow station, there's parts that won't allow soldering. I've done it with a super-fine tip, but I have 30 years of soldering experience, and even then it's quite an accomplishment!

All that said, I love the DIY spirit, and am striving to make this as DIY-able as possible. In any event, it won't be for the beginner.
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next [all]
Page 4 of 5
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group