Live Sampler Module?

From circuitbending to homebrew stompboxes & synths, keep the DIY spirit alive!

Moderators: luketeaford, Joe., lisa, Kent

User avatar
Sandrine
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2253
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:28 pm
Location: BC Canada
Contact:

Live Sampler Module?

Post by Sandrine » Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:54 pm

As I am fairly new to the modular world, I was wondering if there is interest in a 16 bit live sampler module?

I just finished a sampler design (using PIC and Arduino) that has 184 seconds (at 48khz) max sample size, does multiple samples, super long echos, LFO FX, note pitch shift, auto-slicing, records and plays simultaneously, and has MIDI control.

http://www.freshnelly.com/showbox-sampler.htm

After I'm finished with this big project the sampler is for, I was thinking on designing a modular sampler that would have the same features, but CV control added etc.

As I am not yet familiar with modular likes/dislikes, could anyone interested in this idea post what you would like it to be able to do?

IMHO, I think it would be a great module!

User avatar
skookum
Common Wiggler
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:17 pm
Location: Fanny Bay, BC

Post by skookum » Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:32 pm

Hell yeah, I think so too!

User avatar
Sandrine
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2253
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:28 pm
Location: BC Canada
Contact:

Post by Sandrine » Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:07 pm

Right on!

Sorry to anyone trying to hear the Sampler samples at the bottom of page, I had them mixed up, just noticed. :bang:
They're fixed now

With the sampler I do a freestyle layering, where a new sample is created using live and previous samples. It's controlled with a footswitch (start record/stop&play last/start rec new layer) so stays in tempo with performance
...but that's me controlling the gitter or synth by hand so I can correct.

I guess (using without a MIDI clock) this sync would need to be output to keep other stuff in sync? Like an arp module? See I'm a newb

User avatar
falafelbiels
still learning to wiggle
Posts: 4356
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:15 am
Location: Rotterdamm son

Post by falafelbiels » Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:19 pm

Well... A clock input would be even better.

Furthermore, very cool project!

User avatar
Sandrine
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2253
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:28 pm
Location: BC Canada
Contact:

Post by Sandrine » Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:51 pm

Thanks falafelbiels!

Yes there would be a clock input of course., But for freestyling, wouldn't that output be needed for other stuff, or chaining?
So you mean a actual dedicated clock line right?

toneburst
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 856
Joined: Fri May 02, 2014 2:41 pm
Location: London

Post by toneburst » Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:54 am

ABSOLUTELY, I'd be interested!
A good-quality (i.e. not 8bit) loop/delay Euro module with a decent max delay time would be brilliant!

a|x

User avatar
myecholalia
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 379
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:26 am
Location: Singapore

Post by myecholalia » Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:57 am

have a look at the 4ms dual looping delay. some similarities. you might want to differentiate yourself enough to make the project successful.

User avatar
ABC
Common Wiggler
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:35 pm
Location: The Street, Metaverse

Post by ABC » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:25 am

Make it DIY friendly, and they will fly away
bewilderbeast.bandcamp.com

User avatar
notmiserlouagain
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 715
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:04 am
Location: Hamburg
Contact:

Post by notmiserlouagain » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:32 am

Yes, a diy-sampler with as much as possible cv/gate controlled parameters would be really cool!
I would like to build one, if a programming-moron like me can do it...
He who eats with most pleasure is he who least requires sauce.
Xenophon

User avatar
cretaceousear
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2292
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 10:01 am
Location: Suburbia, London

Post by cretaceousear » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:35 am

Yep me too - would love a high quality delay in DIY.
That build page looks damn complex though! 6 boards right?
But very, very impressive stuff!
person, woman, man, camera, TV

Dogma
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 4137
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:46 pm

Post by Dogma » Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:57 am

the interface is whats gonna decide the success of this and eery other sampler....the HW is cheap as chips :)
look up!

User avatar
Sandrine
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2253
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:28 pm
Location: BC Canada
Contact:

Post by Sandrine » Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:25 pm

Wow! I'm surprised at the interest in this!

Thankyou myecholalia for the heads up! I've had a very interesting morning of reading! Now I have some ideas of what everyone would like.

Cretaceousear, this would be the modular design, that was the MIDI controlled "lets see how tiny I can make it to fit inside my portable Box" hither

Image

I'd keep the design on a flat board (with probably headers to another board) because there's so much space behind a modular panel.

It well could be a kit, but I'm having issues with the ADC, it's TSSOP so may have to either get those on the boards, or supply a breakout to standard DIP format. I've soldered them with a regular iron, but it's tricky!

Dogma, yes the interface is the real issue. Complex but simple to use.

I think I'll take this on then :guinness:

I'm about to go on "holidays" so now I'll have something to think about laying around in the sun!

If anyone can think of a request just let me know, and I'll see if it can be done.

User avatar
Sandrine
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2253
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:28 pm
Location: BC Canada
Contact:

Post by Sandrine » Fri Jun 19, 2015 5:28 pm

Off the top of my head, some features would be

:goo: Synced or manual (input switch/trigger) Layering of samples

:goo: Slicing by division of sample, Peaks, or tempo, with CV or MIDI selection of sliced samples

:goo: Tempo division/multiplication (Gate or MIDI)

:goo: Tap Tempo (I've been doing a lot of that lately!) for echo/sample/sync ( with thru socket?)

:goo: CV controlled sample rate (pitch shift) with "note lock" for chromatic scaling based on CV note description, or free pitch (no glissando, just a slide)

:goo: Echo Mode (synced or not) to echo tight or long

:goo: Peak functions from audio input to sync record starts / Slicing / other

:goo: Sample hold (granualizing effect) with variable forward / reverse rate

:goo: Reverse variable/accelerator for "scratch" effect

:goo: Stutter effect? (uses binary AND or OR to control a section of sample memory address width, derived from an analog source)

:goo: MIDI I/O on DIP switch selected channel for sequencer/keyboard control

:goo: MIDI programmable / board presets (of course!)

:goo: Internal LFO bypassed when external is plugged in (separate from CV) with variable gain

:goo: Configurable velocity sensing on MIDI notes input/pulse input/trig/gate? To control Slice sample's level individually.

:goo: Built in EQ (basic bass/mid/treb type) with various centers

:goo: Audio Feedback insertion (auto-bypass on both sockets) w/variable gain


Most of the controls would be digital to vactrols/digital processing to allow board presets to take over, if presets are implemented. If not then most will be analog.

44k-48k sample rate (record+play-mono) or 96k (play only, for sample rate shifting +1 octave without "skipping" samples)

184 second record time (important for layering) at standard sample rate.

Easy to get parts for "mostly" DIY!

--

The existing sampler design does most of this already (except CV stuff)

I think it'd require some sort of display as well (LED/LCD). Mine only has a status LED Red=record, Green=play, yellow=record and play, blue flash=tempo event, but the sequencer/controller in my can display everything else so . .

This would be mono as stereo is left to the post FX right? The overhead for stereo would mean either sample rate lower, or more parts/$$
L/R panning could be easily incorporated though, as done in the present design. It sounds stereo really.

I know I'm forgetting lots but this is a start :)

User avatar
Sandrine
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2253
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:28 pm
Location: BC Canada
Contact:

Post by Sandrine » Fri Jun 19, 2015 5:54 pm

Oh yeh, firmware updatable with the Arduino end of it, but instead of a pro-mini, a trinket can be used so no need for FTDI. This would be at the builder's discretion.
I knew I forgot something!

User avatar
falafelbiels
still learning to wiggle
Posts: 4356
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:15 am
Location: Rotterdamm son

Post by falafelbiels » Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:00 pm

Sandrine wrote:Thanks falafelbiels!

Yes there would be a clock input of course., But for freestyling, wouldn't that output be needed for other stuff, or chaining?
So you mean a actual dedicated clock line right?
Yes a regular clock input like any eurorack sequencer has or should have. A module that can only be clock master is rather limiting when patching. One should always be able to slave a sequencer type module.

IMO at least...

What you are working on is really impressive :hyper:

User avatar
Sandrine
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2253
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:28 pm
Location: BC Canada
Contact:

Post by Sandrine » Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:23 pm

falafelbiels wrote:
Sandrine wrote:Thanks falafelbiels!

Yes there would be a clock input of course., But for freestyling, wouldn't that output be needed for other stuff, or chaining?
So you mean a actual dedicated clock line right?
Yes a regular clock input like any eurorack sequencer has or should have. A module that can only be clock master is rather limiting when patching. One should always be able to slave a sequencer type module.

IMO at least...

What you are working on is really impressive :hyper:
Thanks, I'm lovin' it!

Yes that's why having a "thru" jack might be good. That way, it could control, or be controlled. Of course it adds another jack to what promises to be a pretty busy panel.

User avatar
falafelbiels
still learning to wiggle
Posts: 4356
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:15 am
Location: Rotterdamm son

Post by falafelbiels » Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:48 pm

Oh one more jack...
You'd hardly notice the difference

User avatar
c1t1zen
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 295
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:38 am

Post by c1t1zen » Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:20 pm

Love your ideas so far Sandrine.
You mention all the extra space in eurorack but the trend is more for low profile skiff friendly modules lately. It's not really a big issue but some people may complain if it's too deep.
Also will it be possible to download the samples later if we record an awesome clip?

User avatar
Sandrine
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2253
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:28 pm
Location: BC Canada
Contact:

Post by Sandrine » Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:30 pm

Thanks c1t1zen :)

Um, it won't be deep (jacks+unless 1" is deep?) it'll be wide, mostly for all the knobs and jacks involved. OMG it's getting pretty high in number thus far

As for downloading samples, no, the data bus isn't accessible that way, it's be record the audio is all. The internal setup that created it can be saved but not what you fed into it. Sorry

User avatar
c1t1zen
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 295
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:38 am

Post by c1t1zen » Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:45 pm

cool, no worries just curious it's not a deal breaker. It definitely rare to see a sampler that alows you to output a previous recording. That's what running your DAW during jams is for!

User avatar
Sandrine
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2253
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:28 pm
Location: BC Canada
Contact:

Post by Sandrine » Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:48 pm

Cool, oh you're right, I didn't know everything was less the 40mm wow! Thanks for that!

User avatar
c1t1zen
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 295
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:38 am

Post by c1t1zen » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:20 pm

Hehe, not everything but thanks SMD!
I do a lot of through hole DIY and will soon start doing more SMD. I see you've already got that sorted.

User avatar
mxmxmx
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2243
Joined: Thu May 31, 2012 1:54 am
Location: berlin

Post by mxmxmx » Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:27 am

more SMD. I see you've already got that sorted.
speaking of which -- isn't there some modern equivalent to PCM53J? this bit made me wonder :
The board [...] uses a PCM 53JP 16 bit DAC. These DACs were purchased from China on Ebay, fairly cheap, but I suspect the design is decades old. It has all of the earmarks of the 80's, i.e. reversed MSB/LSB (Q0 is MSB), big power draw, ...
googling the part does throw up a couple of ebay sellers, some of which are fairly cheap, some of which not so cheap. isn't there something that's still in production? that SDRAM chip seems to be less "rare", at least there seem to be plenty on alibaba/aliexpress; or where would one get those?

User avatar
latigid on
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 937
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:05 am

Post by latigid on » Sat Jun 20, 2015 2:36 am

IMO this would be better as separate modules or a standalone unit. The power draw for everything is already becoming significant. It would allow (for instance) wigglers to choose their own input stage and EQ and patch it as they wish. The troubleshooting side is also easier with separate components.

So I would strip it down to just the unique part, which is the actual sampling section.

Might I just add that this would be a cool project for MIDIbox with most of the hardware side and programming protocols already established.

User avatar
Sandrine
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2253
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:28 pm
Location: BC Canada
Contact:

Post by Sandrine » Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:09 am

mxmxmx wrote:
more SMD. I see you've already got that sorted.
speaking of which -- isn't there some modern equivalent to PCM53J? this bit made me wonder :
The board [...] uses a PCM 53JP 16 bit DAC. These DACs were purchased from China on Ebay, fairly cheap, but I suspect the design is decades old. It has all of the earmarks of the 80's, i.e. reversed MSB/LSB (Q0 is MSB), big power draw, ...
googling the part does throw up a couple of ebay sellers, some of which are fairly cheap, some of which not so cheap. isn't there something that's still in production? that SDRAM chip seems to be less "rare", at least there seem to be plenty on alibaba/aliexpress; or where would one get those?
Oh yes, there's lots of 16 bit DACs, but the price is what pulls the PCM53 into the circuit. The DAC may change tho because external latches needed to be added. I just happened to have a couple on hand from another project. It is a bit of a power pig too. That's the only part on the board that does draw. The RAM can "sleep" so it only draws on active. DIP is nice in any case.

Post Reply

Return to “Music Tech DIY”