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Yamaha Reface
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> General Gear Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 18, 19, 20  Next [all]
Author Yamaha Reface
rauch
i really like the cp and i'm looking into the yc now. any reasons i shouldn't get one? is something like a nord any better for authentic 60/70s sounds?
Blairio
rauch wrote:
i really like the cp and i'm looking into the yc now. any reasons i shouldn't get one? is something like a nord any better for authentic 60/70s sounds?


Completely different price points and instruments. Short answer is yes, but a Nord Electro is several times the price of a Reface YC, For that though you get acoustic & electric pianos, clavinets, organs (console and tone wheel), and an amazing sample library of orchestral and other sounds. You also get a full size keyboard.

Mind you if you are considering buying a couple of Reface's - say the piano one and the organ one - I think you are into the price territory of an earlier second hand Nord Electro 61 note.

I wouldn't go earlier than an Electro 3 though. I have a 3 and a 5, both are great. The 3 misses the fancy display and keyboard split & layering capability of the later Electro's, but the sound is there,
JimY
I think Yamaha chickened out a bit with the YC.
It's been a pretty boring time for organ simulators, with the same old Hammond/Vox/Farfisa choices and the Hammond always taking the headline position. More often than not, touted for it's Jazz organ chops. I don't know about anyone else here, but Jazz organ sends me from the room screaming!

So I was disappointed that it was really only the YC voicing that was included in an interface built around supporting the usual Hammond simulation. Some of Yamaha's had some cool extra tricks - like the pitch ribbon. That ribbon runs across behind the keys and was setup so if you touch the ribbon behind A4, it sounds A4 but of course, let you do glides between any of pitches.
Maybe you've heard the studio recording of Steely Dan's "Do it again"? The pitch swooping organ solo is a YC organ that happened to be in the studio. They didn't play that solo live because they didn't tour with it.
Why hasn't the Reface YC got that?

One welcome thing is the use of rocker switch tabs instead of momentary buttons. That was one of the nice things on the old transistor organs - all those big coloured switches looked cool and it was obvious what they did and you didn't need to check displays to see how they are set - and no need, ever, to RTFM.
rauch
Blairio wrote:
For that though you get acoustic & electric pianos, clavinets, organs (console and tone wheel), and an amazing sample library of orchestral and other sounds. You also get a full size keyboard.

Mind you if you are considering buying a couple of Reface's - say the piano one and the organ one - I think you are into the price territory of an earlier second hand Nord Electro 61 note.


you're right. probably a better idea to sell the cp and get a nord instead. also less cables.

i just like those yc rocker switches so much smile
Scories
rauch wrote:
Scories wrote:
drxcm wrote:
Completely agree with the above post. The CP is such a wonderful instrument to play- very intuitive and everything is a sweet spot.

I just picked up a Mellotron M4000D mini and having similar vibes.

Wish there was a guitar pedal or effects box just like the Reface CP effects section - ahame there isn’t an external input as it’s voicing is just perfect for my needs


This post makes me realize how nice it would be if Yamaha could implement an update on the CP, with an hidden Mellotron soundbank : strings, flute, choir, vibraphone...


a reface mt would be awesome but it would take a LOT of ram to provide all the great instruments made for the mellotron. an sd card slot to load samples would be nice.


I would not ask for a fully extended instrument collection. Just the five or six basic sounds would be sweet already.
Northward
I’ve been thinking about getting the CS from pretty much day one. It’s nice sounds,size and immediate switch on and play is appealing. So what’s holding me back? I first though it was pricey with all these silly decisions they did with memory annoyingly in the cloud only. No arp, sequencer and other weak spots like that useless looper. It just seems kinda half baked.t But as I want a portable keyboard it’s tempting vs a soundless Keystep.

So I’ve been hoping for a mark II.. actually on both units mentioned above. But, no sign of neither. Yamaha gives me the impression of a huge oil tanker needing ages to make a little turn. What do you think.. have they left the Reface line?

I’m pretty confident Arturia will update the Keystep. But God knows when with all those never ending software fixes and upgrades. A lot of functionality in a small package, but also a lot of flaws it seems.

NI just released a nice keyboard in this segment, but without midi: absolutely instant No-Go. (the ignorance..)

Does anyone use their Reface both songwriting and noodling on it’s own and producing -with other synths and soft synths in the DAW?
I wonder if this runs smoothly.
j bowman
rauch wrote:
i really like the cp and i'm looking into the yc now. any reasons i shouldn't get one? is something like a nord any better for authentic 60/70s sounds?


Reface YC is one of my favorite instruments. I have them all except the DX, and the YC is best IMO, although I do like the CS and CP also.

Sure it has a few minor deficiencies, but as an ex-organist, seeing an instrument that has much of the feel and functionality of a "proper" organ but which is light enough to lift up and carry around between my thumb and forefinger is mind-blowing awesome to me and outweighs pretty much every other consideration. It generally sits by my couch loaded with rechargeable AAs and headphone jack, but I play it in the garden, on the kitchen table, take it on holiday with me, camping, to the beach etc. etc. Finally I understand how guitarists feel about their instruments!

Comparing it specifically to the CP (which also has excellent sounds) I think the speakers in the YC work a bit better - my CP has an annoying buzz for even moderately loud sounds in the mid-range. It seems to be a commonan problem for that particular model.

Also, although they all presumably have the same keybed, the YC to me feels better to play. There's not much in it, but possibly the casing is just a bit more stable. The latency seems really low, especially on the percussion sounds, really snappy and responsive, just seems a bit quicker than the other two can get.

Possibly the Nord or other instruments will get you more realistic organ sounds. The drawbars are set up for Hammond, so I think some of the registrations you can play on the Reface are not possible on an old Farfisa or Vox.

Enough gushing. The bad points: The rockers are nice, but I've had to send two YCs back to Yamaha with broken rockers in a two year period, and I don't think I'm hitting them hard! The reverb and distortion are excellent, the rotary is good but could be better (more customisable for a start), but the vibrato/chorus seems a bit of an afterthought - there's barely any difference between the two settings, which is a wasted opportunity. Despite that, if this one breaks I'll buy another in a heartbeat, it sounds beautiful, looks beautiful, feels beautiful.
MindMachine
Scories wrote:
drxcm wrote:
Completely agree with the above post. The CP is such a wonderful instrument to play- very intuitive and everything is a sweet spot.

I just picked up a Mellotron M4000D mini and having similar vibes.

Wish there was a guitar pedal or effects box just like the Reface CP effects section - ahame there isn’t an external input as it’s voicing is just perfect for my needs


This post makes me realize how nice it would be if Yamaha could implement an update on the CP, with an hidden Mellotron soundbank : strings, flute, choir, vibraphone...


I play my YC Reface and CP Reface through an EH Mel9 pedal and it is sweet.

Northward wrote:
No arp, sequencer and other weak spots like that useless looper. It just seems kinda half baked.t But as I want a portable keyboard it’s tempting vs a soundless Keystep.


The looper is far from useless. Also, it has keys. play them instead of relying on the non-existent sequencer and arpeggiator.

j bowman wrote:

Reface YC is one of my favorite instruments. I have them all except the DX, and the YC is best IMO, although I do like the CS and CP also.



I have these same three. I am not much of a keybord player at all, but the YC gets me into early Klaus Schulze sound, the CP is pretty organic for a tiny digital keyboard and the CS is my only 'polyphonic' since I am mostly into modular synths and loopers.

I think these instruments are a great value and offer great sounds with decent effects. I use them with graphic eq's, Zvex Lo Fi, EH Mel9, EH Analogizer (and a few other pedals on occasion) pedals and they fit in small spaces. I have them on these office desk shelves that alloy other gear to be placed under them and a pedal next to them on the shelf:

https://www.target.com/p/rolodex-153-wire-mesh-off-surface-shelf-26-x- 7-x-7-black/-/A-16903545?ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=google_pla_df&fndsr c=tgtao&CPNG=PLA_Storage%2BOrganization%2BShopping&adgroup=SC_Storage% 2BOrganization&LID=700000001170770pgs&network=g&device=c&location=9031 632&ds_rl=1246978&ds_rl=1247068&ds_rl=1246978&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIzbG5z7 mD4gIVIB6tBh0YqQFwEAQYASABEgKQMPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
Scories
MindMachine wrote:
I play my YC Reface and CP Reface through an EH Mel9 pedal and it is sweet.


I thought this pedal was mostly interesting for guitar players. Seems like a sweet option. Though I would have prefered vibraphone over saxophone. smile
About Reface, I'm still hesitating between a DX and a CP...
MindMachine
Scories wrote:
MindMachine wrote:
I play my YC Reface and CP Reface through an EH Mel9 pedal and it is sweet.


I thought this pedal was mostly interesting for guitar players. Seems like a sweet option. Though I would have prefered vibraphone over saxophone. smile
About Reface, I'm still hesitating between a DX and a CP...



Yeah the sax voice is an odd one. Not so saxy. The Mel9 has a limited range, but that actually works well with the Reface keyboards. They go used for $150. That is a great deal. All of the string and voice presets are money to me. The wind and brass are okay.
Scories
MindMachine wrote:
Scories wrote:
MindMachine wrote:
I play my YC Reface and CP Reface through an EH Mel9 pedal and it is sweet.


I thought this pedal was mostly interesting for guitar players. Seems like a sweet option. Though I would have prefered vibraphone over saxophone. smile
About Reface, I'm still hesitating between a DX and a CP...



Yeah the sax voice is an odd one. Not so saxy. The Mel9 has a limited range, but that actually works well with the Reface keyboards. They go used for $150. That is a great deal. All of the string and voice presets are money to me. The wind and brass are okay.


Thanks ! thumbs up
...but what about that lovely flute sound?

Back to the Reface models; I think they might be the best options around for midi controllers with small keys and polyphonic synth engines... I haven't found anything else yet.
Rex Coil 7
.... all metal construction .....














Scories
Got myself a DX. I'm quite surprised how warm and mellow this thing sounds. And when it gets noisy, there's still something nearly acoustic going on (but not on the harsh side). Overall, it's a nice flexible synth that makes a nice crossover between analog and digital.
thevegasnerve
Scories wrote:
Got myself a DX. I'm quite surprised how warm and mellow this thing sounds. And when it gets noisy, there's still something nearly acoustic going on (but not on the harsh side). Overall, it's a nice flexible synth that makes a nice crossover between analog and digital.


Have a DX coming shortly, am excited to explore some FM synthesis in an easy to use form factor. Also picked up an EHX Micro Pog to possibly pair with it. Glad the prices finally came down on the Refaces..
1986Bowler
I thought about the DX- tried it in the store- I think I found a few presets that made me happy- just not enough to pull the trigger on it.

The CS intrigues me, and it could be fun for now, but when there's Deckard's dream, and even Behringer's BS80 (phrasing, anyone?) and even Arturia's take on it, then I wonder if it's worth the price even if it is very reasonable compared to other options.
thevegasnerve
1986Bowler wrote:
I thought about the DX- tried it in the store- I think I found a few presets that made me happy- just not enough to pull the trigger on it.

The CS intrigues me, and it could be fun for now, but when there's Deckard's dream, and even Behringer's BS80 (phrasing, anyone?) and even Arturia's take on it, then I wonder if it's worth the price even if it is very reasonable compared to other options.


I think that's a valid point and I guess it really comes down to what you need to write/perform music. I have a suspicion that the form factor of the Refaces is really going to appeal to me. Sort of like a really awesome guitar pedal, but not necessarily as deep as most synths.. But again, the price needs to be reasonable (under $300) for me to get serious given other options.. I was going to get the CS first, but unknowingly ordered the DX by accident. Now I am glad I did as I actually think the DX will offer something I don't really have at the moment.
thevegasnerve
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
.... all metal construction .....












I may consider this down the road if the iPad apps don't work for me.. Just looks like such a cool little setup for the DX.
12eightyfive
1986Bowler wrote:
I thought about the DX- tried it in the store- I think I found a few presets that made me happy- just not enough to pull the trigger on it.

The CS intrigues me, and it could be fun for now, but when there's Deckard's dream, and even Behringer's BS80 (phrasing, anyone?) and even Arturia's take on it, then I wonder if it's worth the price even if it is very reasonable compared to other options.


Re: the DX, the presets are pretty plain (aside from the obnoxious car alarm ones) I am writing over almost all of them. The electric piano ones are a good starting point for more velocity-sensitive patches. I find a lot of satisfaction in initializing patches and building up from there.

Re: CS my main hesitation has been the lack of ability to save a preset. A cool design and I have a few friends that swear by its portability and flexibility, and I'm sure a clever user out there has figured out a quick way to use soundmondo and/or the iPhone app for quick changes but that adds too much fiddling and complexity for me. How long is Yamaha actually going to maintain soundmondo anyway?
thevegasnerve
12eightyfive wrote:
1986Bowler wrote:
I thought about the DX- tried it in the store- I think I found a few presets that made me happy- just not enough to pull the trigger on it.

The CS intrigues me, and it could be fun for now, but when there's Deckard's dream, and even Behringer's BS80 (phrasing, anyone?) and even Arturia's take on it, then I wonder if it's worth the price even if it is very reasonable compared to other options.


Re: the DX, the presets are pretty plain (aside from the obnoxious car alarm ones) I am writing over almost all of them. The electric piano ones are a good starting point for more velocity-sensitive patches. I find a lot of satisfaction in initializing patches and building up from there.

Re: CS my main hesitation has been the lack of ability to save a preset. A cool design and I have a few friends that swear by its portability and flexibility, and I'm sure a clever user out there has figured out a quick way to use soundmondo and/or the iPhone app for quick changes but that adds too much fiddling and complexity for me. How long is Yamaha actually going to maintain soundmondo anyway?


yeah, I plan to overwrite most of the presets on the DX, have listened to some online and they are certainly not useful to me.... maybe even see what others have created, might be better starting off points.. I like it as a possible pad machine. i have doubts about soundmondo too. 32 presets is not a lot for that type of synth.. monosynth maybe.
gruebleengourd
12eightyfive wrote:

Re: CS my main hesitation has been the lack of ability to save a preset.


FYI You can save presets on the CS using regular sysex dumps. No need for soundmondo. I use midi ox.

The CS is kinda a neat little digital subtractive for quick fun -- but the DX is far better overall IMO. CC control over FM parameters and feedback for every operator :-)
Blairio
thevegasnerve wrote:
12eightyfive wrote:
1986Bowler wrote:
I thought about the DX- tried it in the store- I think I found a few presets that made me happy- just not enough to pull the trigger on it.

The CS intrigues me, and it could be fun for now, but when there's Deckard's dream, and even Behringer's BS80 (phrasing, anyone?) and even Arturia's take on it, then I wonder if it's worth the price even if it is very reasonable compared to other options.


Re: the DX, the presets are pretty plain (aside from the obnoxious car alarm ones) I am writing over almost all of them. The electric piano ones are a good starting point for more velocity-sensitive patches. I find a lot of satisfaction in initializing patches and building up from there.

Re: CS my main hesitation has been the lack of ability to save a preset. A cool design and I have a few friends that swear by its portability and flexibility, and I'm sure a clever user out there has figured out a quick way to use soundmondo and/or the iPhone app for quick changes but that adds too much fiddling and complexity for me. How long is Yamaha actually going to maintain soundmondo anyway?


yeah, I plan to overwrite most of the presets on the DX, have listened to some online and they are certainly not useful to me.... maybe even see what others have created, might be better starting off points.. I like it as a possible pad machine. i have doubts about soundmondo too. 32 presets is not a lot for that type of synth.. monosynth maybe.


With the DX Legacy project:

http://refacedx.martintarenskeen.nl

... and SoundMondo, you have access to 100's of 4 operator patches which have been made compatible with the Reface DX. There are a lot to work through, but it is worth spending the time. The Reface DX is capable of great leads, bass's, pads, textures, acoustic instrument simulations, percussion, crazy soundscape stuff ......

I have owned and used DX7's and DX5's. Listening back to recordings of them my Reface DX sounds cleaner than both - though it lacks the sonic complexity of the 6 operator architecture. It has already been suggested but it bears repeating: If Yamaha were to revisit the DX7 using the Reface DX's sound engine and interface (but with 6 operators instead of 4), they would have a killer FM synth on their hands.
scanningthemirror
I definitely want to get the YC so I can use it with VCV Rack and some pedals. The CP sounds great too.

If anyone has done any cool recordings of the YC combined with some pedals or modules I'd definitely love to hear them thumbs up
starthief
I feel like the CS is simple enough it doesn't need presets.

It's main downside to me is the really steppy controls. Trying to tune the filter resonance just right, or even more so, the ringmod mode, would have benefited a lot from more precision.

Also I kinda wish the FM mode didn't add white noise with the ratio slider, but maybe the very top end of the index slider.

Still, it's kind of a cozy and fun keyboard and pretty great for a few useful classic sounds (and a few more unusual ones).
thevegasnerve
Blairio wrote:
thevegasnerve wrote:
12eightyfive wrote:
1986Bowler wrote:
I thought about the DX- tried it in the store- I think I found a few presets that made me happy- just not enough to pull the trigger on it.

The CS intrigues me, and it could be fun for now, but when there's Deckard's dream, and even Behringer's BS80 (phrasing, anyone?) and even Arturia's take on it, then I wonder if it's worth the price even if it is very reasonable compared to other options.


Re: the DX, the presets are pretty plain (aside from the obnoxious car alarm ones) I am writing over almost all of them. The electric piano ones are a good starting point for more velocity-sensitive patches. I find a lot of satisfaction in initializing patches and building up from there.

Re: CS my main hesitation has been the lack of ability to save a preset. A cool design and I have a few friends that swear by its portability and flexibility, and I'm sure a clever user out there has figured out a quick way to use soundmondo and/or the iPhone app for quick changes but that adds too much fiddling and complexity for me. How long is Yamaha actually going to maintain soundmondo anyway?


yeah, I plan to overwrite most of the presets on the DX, have listened to some online and they are certainly not useful to me.... maybe even see what others have created, might be better starting off points.. I like it as a possible pad machine. i have doubts about soundmondo too. 32 presets is not a lot for that type of synth.. monosynth maybe.


With the DX Legacy project:

http://refacedx.martintarenskeen.nl

... and SoundMondo, you have access to 100's of 4 operator patches which have been made compatible with the Reface DX. There are a lot to work through, but it is worth spending the time. The Reface DX is capable of great leads, bass's, pads, textures, acoustic instrument simulations, percussion, crazy soundscape stuff ......

I have owned and used DX7's and DX5's. Listening back to recordings of them my Reface DX sounds cleaner than both - though it lacks the sonic complexity of the 6 operator architecture. It has already been suggested but it bears repeating: If Yamaha were to revisit the DX7 using the Reface DX's sound engine and interface (but with 6 operators instead of 4), they would have a killer FM synth on their hands.


Thanks for sharing the DX Legacy info, very cool. Of course I just realized my DX isn’t shipping til July now.. Must be selling well..
starthief
Has anyone else found the Reface CS (or others possibly) has a pretty high noise floor? And does that improve by powering it with batteries rather than an AC adapter?

I had noticed it in recordings before, but now that I have paired it with an Elektron Analog Drive the noise is really prominent, especially with higher gain settings. (It does sound a lot beefier with the AD though!)

Trying to decide if I should invest in some more rechargeable batteries or a noise gate pedal.
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