Soundcraft Signature Series

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dubonaire
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Post by dubonaire » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:33 am

mousegarden wrote:The MTK looks like it's geared up for live work, there's no Control Room output, which could be irritating, you can work around that, but why bother? It's not as though this mixer is so special in other ways that's it's worth putting up with niggles, just get another one that has all you want.
No one with a control room setup would use a Soundcraft MTK. It’s not meant for that. The Soundcraft MTK 22 is around US$800. It's cheap as chips and specifically designed as a mixer USB interface for DAW VST inserts and channel and master recording. It's ridiculous to say it doesn't meet needs it wasn't designed for.

It's a high performing low end mixer that enables people with bedroom studios. Which is 90% of the people on this forum.

Jorg Schaaf of Radikal Technologies, noted for high quality synth engineering, has a bunch of videos showcasing this mixer.

[video][/video]

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Post by mousegarden » Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:06 am

dubonaire wrote:
mousegarden wrote:The MTK looks like it's geared up for live work, there's no Control Room output, which could be irritating, you can work around that, but why bother? It's not as though this mixer is so special in other ways that's it's worth putting up with niggles, just get another one that has all you want.
No one with a control room setup would use a Soundcraft MTK. It’s not meant for that. The Soundcraft MTK 22 is around US$800. It's cheap as chips and specifically designed as a mixer USB interface for DAW VST inserts and channel and master recording. It's ridiculous to say it doesn't meet needs it wasn't designed for.

It's a high performing low end mixer that enables people with bedroom studios. Which is 90% of the people on this forum.

Jorg Schaaf of Radikal Technologies, noted for high quality synth engineering, has a bunch of videos showcasing this mixer.

[video][/video]
I was going to say, that you'd probably use the computer returns for monitoring with this mixer, via USB.

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Post by dubonaire » Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:23 am

mousegarden wrote:I was going to say, that you'd probably use the computer returns for monitoring with this mixer, via USB.
No you monitor through the master out.

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Post by Bath House » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:08 am

I think these are great mixers, packed with features, but it's maddening that they don't have inserts. I can even live with the lack of aux returns, but no inserts!!!
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Post by Sir Ruff » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:28 am

these are great mixers overall, but I have two qualms with them:

-the EQ/effects are only applied to the stereo USB master output, not individual USB channels, so forget about easily printing tracks via USB with effects/EQ in place. This is a huge oversight to me.

-the workaround for the above is to solo channels and record through the master USB out. Fine in theory, BUT then the Master out--the main monitoring level control--doubles as the stereo output volume control, which means that you really have to crank the volume to get sufficient gain levels in the DAW, and this is often too loud for comfort (one could turn the speaker volume down, but you really shouldn't have to do this every time you want to record the EQ/effects). So for me, the very nice EQ and effects go pretty much unused unless I really want that sound.

-QC seems to be an issue--I am on my third one of these. The first two both had channel gain malfunction issues.

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Post by mousegarden » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:05 am

dubonaire wrote:
mousegarden wrote:I was going to say, that you'd probably use the computer returns for monitoring with this mixer, via USB.
No you monitor through the master out.
:hmm: I guess the analogue master out goes to your monitors, and everything else, record/monitoring is handled by USB, so you monitor already recorded tracks through the master out?

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Post by dubonaire » Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:22 pm

Sir Ruff wrote:these are great mixers overall, but I have two qualms with them:

-the EQ/effects are only applied to the stereo USB master output, not individual USB channels, so forget about easily printing tracks via USB with effects/EQ in place. This is a huge oversight to me.

-the workaround for the above is to solo channels and record through the master USB out. Fine in theory, BUT then the Master out--the main monitoring level control--doubles as the stereo output volume control, which means that you really have to crank the volume to get sufficient gain levels in the DAW, and this is often too loud for comfort (one could turn the speaker volume down, but you really shouldn't have to do this every time you want to record the EQ/effects). So for me, the very nice EQ and effects go pretty much unused unless I really want that sound.

-QC seems to be an issue--I am on my third one of these. The first two both had channel gain malfunction issues.
The real flexibility and point of the MKT mixer is that every channel can have multiple plugin inserts including channel EQ. It really should be thought of as a relatively cheap USB audio interface with the addition of a hardware mixer interface. It's not designed to do a lot of out of the box routing. I'd have to have a $100k+ studio to use all the inserts I use with this mixer if they were hardware. Normally if you were using outboard inserts you'd have to track individually anyway, unless you have 20 of each piece of hardware.

You can route to the Aux outputs or the Group outputs if you want to track using the mixer's EQ and FX, you don't need to use the master out if you are tracking. I don't use the mixer's FX much because I find them a bit noisy.

I always have my speakers turned down, so that my master fader is near 0db, that gives me sufficient volume on the master DAW channel, but all you need to do if you want more gain in your master DAW channel is use a gain plugin such as Utility in Ableton Live.

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Post by Sir Ruff » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:04 pm

dubonaire wrote:The real flexibility and point of the MKT mixer is that every channel can have multiple plugin inserts including channel EQ. It really should be thought of as a relatively cheap USB audio interface with the addition of a hardware mixer interface. It's not designed to do a lot of out of the box routing. I'd have to have a $100k+ studio to use all the inserts I use with this mixer if they were hardware. Normally if you were using outboard inserts you'd have to track individually anyway, unless you have 20 of each piece of hardware.
This is essentially what it is. But Soundcraft make mixers, not USB interfaces, so it's bizarre to me that they prevented use of even their much esteemed EQ as I would on a traditional mixer for basic sound shaping prior to recording. I realize you can do this if you feed the audio back into the mixer from the DAW, but I haven't quite advanced to mixing out of the box yet and that shouldn't be a requirement just to use the EQ.
You can route to the Aux outputs or the Group outputs if you want to track using the mixer's EQ and FX, you don't need to use the master out if you are tracking.
Right, but then you can't record via USB, which is the main reason I bought it.
I always have my speakers turned down, so that my master fader is near 0db, that gives me sufficient volume on the master DAW channel, but all you need to do if you want more gain in your master DAW channel is use a gain plugin such as Utility in Ableton Live.
yeah, I mean there are workarounds, but it feels really clumsy to switch from having immediate per channel recording via USB to the trad audio outs and the leveling issue + having to mute everything (which I invariably forget to do), etc.. Anyway, despite my gripes, it's worth it just to have the large number of direct to USB channels for recording so for that I'm happy with it.

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Post by dubonaire » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:45 pm

Sir Ruff wrote:
dubonaire wrote:The real flexibility and point of the MKT mixer is that every channel can have multiple plugin inserts including channel EQ. It really should be thought of as a relatively cheap USB audio interface with the addition of a hardware mixer interface. It's not designed to do a lot of out of the box routing. I'd have to have a $100k+ studio to use all the inserts I use with this mixer if they were hardware. Normally if you were using outboard inserts you'd have to track individually anyway, unless you have 20 of each piece of hardware.
This is essentially what it is. But Soundcraft make mixers, not USB interfaces, so it's bizarre to me that they prevented use of even their much esteemed EQ as I would on a traditional mixer for basic sound shaping prior to recording. I realize you can do this if you feed the audio back into the mixer from the DAW, but I haven't quite advanced to mixing out of the box yet and that shouldn't be a requirement just to use the EQ.
I think it is price. The Zed-R16 was 3 times the price.
Sir Ruff wrote:
You can route to the Aux outputs or the Group outputs if you want to track using the mixer's EQ and FX, you don't need to use the master out if you are tracking.
Right, but then you can't record via USB, which is the main reason I bought it.
You can, you just need to steal another mono or stereo channel.
Sir Ruff wrote:
I always have my speakers turned down, so that my master fader is near 0db, that gives me sufficient volume on the master DAW channel, but all you need to do if you want more gain in your master DAW channel is use a gain plugin such as Utility in Ableton Live.
yeah, I mean there are workarounds, but it feels really clumsy to switch from having immediate per channel recording via USB to the trad audio outs and the leveling issue + having to mute everything (which I invariably forget to do), etc.. Anyway, despite my gripes, it's worth it just to have the large number of direct to USB channels for recording so for that I'm happy with it.
You don't need to do that if you steal a channel. I agree it's a frustrating workaround. I tend to view it more as a live session mixer. Because I tend to do a lot of live dubbing stuff, it works for me most of the time. Actually I use two mixers, I use an A&H Zed 22FX which I then route into the Soundcraft.

I'll be honest, there are times when I wish I had one bigger mixing desk with more routing options and a conventional audio interface. And sometimes I think a digital mixer would be so much more convenient. But I'd be looking at a lot more $$.

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Post by TXBDan » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:51 pm

I wouldn't want to record post EQ if i could. I like to record the most untouched track i can get and process in software. I always change my mind after sleeping on a mix and like to be able to tweak and tweak and tweak and undo and mess up and tweak and undo and tweak and tweak. for weeks at a time... :doh:

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Post by Sir Ruff » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:05 pm

dubonaire wrote: You can, you just need to steal another mono or stereo channel.
Oh, yes, right, duh! This is what I do with external effects already; not sure why it didn't occur to me to do with EQ as well. :tu:
TXBDan wrote:I wouldn't want to record post EQ if i could. I like to record the most untouched track i can get and process in software. I always change my mind after sleeping on a mix and like to be able to tweak and tweak and tweak and undo and mess up and tweak and undo and tweak and tweak. for weeks at a time... :doh:
haha... I guess that's the beauty of unautomated hardware. Set, record, forget. Hardware EQ is general useful for basic cuts, but in the case of the dual parametric EQ on the MTK you can really get pretty extreme peak shaping, which I feel holds up better in the analog domain sometimes. You can always tame it digitally afterward if needed.

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Post by mousegarden » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:09 am

TXBDan wrote:I wouldn't want to record post EQ if i could. I like to record the most untouched track i can get and process in software. I always change my mind after sleeping on a mix and like to be able to tweak and tweak and tweak and undo and mess up and tweak and undo and tweak and tweak. for weeks at a time... :doh:
I used to like recording with all effects/EQ etc, it can become part of a sound pre-record and inspire you. But lately it's been annoying me, I recorded a nice drum track with reverb, and went for a take, but now there are certain sections of the multitrack where I'd like no reverb on those drums, so I'm recording everything dry with no EQ from now on.

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quick n00b question

Post by mafouka » Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:31 pm

Are the Ghost preamps on the Signature series only applied to the XLR inputs or are they also nurturing the 1/4" line inputs aswell???
Last edited by mafouka on Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: quick n00b question

Post by dubonaire » Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:41 pm

mafouka wrote:Are the Ghost preamps for the Signature series only applied to the XLR inputs or are they also nurturing the 1/8" line inputs aswell???
My guess is they've probably just used the same input circuitry as in the ghost series, but even for the ghost series they just talk about mic preamps. The line inputs are fine, although I do have one scratchy pot now.

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Post by naturligfunktion » Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:21 am

Bumping this thread, but I have a question regarding the headphone output of these mixers:

When I mix I have two mono channels panned L & R on the mixer. I can hear it through the monitors, as they are playing the master out, and I can record it in the final mix as I print/record channel 13/14 - the master out.

But I cannot hear this in my headphones. I’ve noticed that the headphone out is not the same as the master out: it does not play changes in the EQ, if a channel is panned or the fader positions. The headphone out play the output from the computer, if you guys get what I mean. For example, if I instead take one of the stereo channels on the mixer, and pan the instrument left in Ableton, I hear this in the headphones (and in the master out, but a little bit more subtle). The same goes for volume, effects etc.

Usually I work around this, keeping everything on the desk flat (no panning, no EQ, every fader in the same position) and make all adjustments in the box. But this feels like a limitation.

Is there any way to get around this issue? That is, can I somehow get the headphone output to monitor the master out? Every suggestion is of interest.

Many thanks

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Re: Soundcraft Signature Series

Post by mafouka » Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:39 am

Can someone confirm whether or not the fx sends leave a little bit of dry signal even when the fx amount knobs / sends are turned 100% wetter than a wet nap?

I just acquired the signature 12 mtk after years of lust and am sorta gutted about this.

Here's the test:

Run the fx send 1 out into a filter, then back into a mixer chanel on the Sig. Turn the aux 1 send knob and amount 1 knob up, and then pull back the filter to total freq cut. . . After this I can still hear a bit of the dry signal from the original send channel.
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Re:

Post by mafouka » Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:11 pm

naturligfunktion wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:21 am
Bumping this thread, but I have a question regarding the headphone output of these mixers:

When I mix I have two mono channels panned L & R on the mixer. I can hear it through the monitors, as they are playing the master out, and I can record it in the final mix as I print/record channel 13/14 - the master out.

But I cannot hear this in my headphones. I’ve noticed that the headphone out is not the same as the master out: it does not play changes in the EQ, if a channel is panned or the fader positions. The headphone out play the output from the computer, if you guys get what I mean. For example, if I instead take one of the stereo channels on the mixer, and pan the instrument left in Ableton, I hear this in the headphones (and in the master out, but a little bit more subtle). The same goes for volume, effects etc.

Usually I work around this, keeping everything on the desk flat (no panning, no EQ, every fader in the same position) and make all adjustments in the box. But this feels like a limitation.

Is there any way to get around this issue? That is, can I somehow get the headphone output to monitor the master out? Every suggestion is of interest.

Many thanks
My G, I do believe the signature symptoms you are experiencing stem from an engaged AFL button on the right side of your mixer. Please let me know if this helps!
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Re: Re:

Post by naturligfunktion » Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:57 pm

mafouka wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:11 pm
My G, I do believe the signature symptoms you are experiencing stem from an engaged AFL button on the right side of your mixer. Please let me know if this helps!
I just tried and it didn't make any difference sadly. Thanks anyway

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Re: Soundcraft Signature Series

Post by mafouka » Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:18 pm

hm ok. now try disengaging all PFL buttons on each individual channel. Basically you want the little afl/pfl red LED off
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Re: Soundcraft Signature Series

Post by BugBrand » Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:11 pm

Naturligfunktion - I'd imagine it is something to do with a button being pressed in somewhere (the desk doesn't make such things as obvious as maybe on bigger/nicer desks) - track sends to the computer are pre fader and pre eq I think so it suggests you might somehow be monitoring at the wrong place - can't quite think of the solution though, sorry. On the one I have at home I only ever work on headphones and don't think I've encountered the same as you say.

Mafouka - could it be bleed of the filter module itself? Many designs will sometimes let a little signal through even at what should be full filtering - ie. perhaps not a fault on the mixer, but something in the external processor?

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Re: Soundcraft Signature Series

Post by mafouka » Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:15 pm

BugBrand wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:11 pm
Mafouka - could it be bleed of the filter module itself? Many designs will sometimes let a little signal through even at what should be full filtering - ie. perhaps not a fault on the mixer, but something in the external processor?
Ahh yes mr.Bug Sir, that would certainly be the case for some filters (like the Morpheus, being the very reason being why I sold it), but this filter (PGH) cuts all frequencies to the dead zone everytime

I'm hoping someone with a 12 mtk will test the fx send wetness and shine in on the matter.
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Re: Soundcraft Signature Series

Post by naturligfunktion » Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:08 am

BugBrand wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:11 pm
Naturligfunktion - I'd imagine it is something to do with a button being pressed in somewhere (the desk doesn't make such things as obvious as maybe on bigger/nicer desks) - track sends to the computer are pre fader and pre eq I think so it suggests you might somehow be monitoring at the wrong place - can't quite think of the solution though, sorry. On the one I have at home I only ever work on headphones and don't think I've encountered the same as you say.

Mafouka - could it be bleed of the filter module itself? Many designs will sometimes let a little signal through even at what should be full filtering - ie. perhaps not a fault on the mixer, but something in the external processor?
I think it is not possible to monitor the master out actually (via headphones), if usb return is engaged. If not usb return is pressed in, the headphones monitor as the mixing desk is, but if usb return is engaged, they monitor the signal out from the computer.

At least acording to my limited research :hihi:

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Re: Soundcraft Signature Series

Post by mafouka » Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:24 pm

mafouka wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:39 am
Can someone confirm whether or not the fx sends leave a little bit of dry signal even when the fx amount knobs / sends are turned 100% wetter than a wet nap?

I just acquired the signature 12 mtk after years of lust and am sorta gutted about this.

Here's the test:

Run the fx send 1 out into a filter, then back into a mixer chanel on the Sig. Turn the aux 1 send knob and amount 1 knob up, and then pull back the filter to total freq cut. . . After this I can still hear a bit of the dry signal from the original send channel.
Somebody halp me out
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Re: Soundcraft Signature Series

Post by BugBrand » Sat Feb 22, 2020 4:05 am

I did check with a delay - definitely didn't hear any dry signal.

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Re: Soundcraft Signature Series

Post by robleighton22 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:43 am

Believe it is wet with no dry when setup as u described

Im impressed with this mixer. Having never worked with analog eqs or compressors, I'm loving how my kicks and basses sound through the driven limiter. The eqs sound really musical to me, the mid sweep pretty much adds as a notch filter. I've managed to route everything pretty well using the sub mix, which can take a a number of instruments and Ableton audio from my soundcard for analog style mixing. Then I use the master out to record. I rarely need to record multiple things at once as tend to record one layer at a time. What is important is being able to hear the other layers whilst I record, which this allows me to do. And I can sample into my MPC live without switching cables. My MPC also is now making use of the multiple outs. Basically this is great!

Almost got a Mackie VLZ which would have more options, notably an aux return. But read lots of negative opinions about the eqs. Sound is great on the soundcrsft and I'm actually more than happy with the lexicon effects, sound better than the lexicon plugins I have.

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