MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index
 FAQ & Terms of UseFAQ & Terms Of Use   Wiggler RadioMW Radio   Muff Wiggler TwitterTwitter   Support the site @ PatreonPatreon 
 SearchSearch   RegisterSign up   Log inLog in 
WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Information
Search is fixed!!! Apologies for the downtime.

Roland System 500
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 23, 24, 25, 26  Next [all]
Author Roland System 500
jzwoopwoop
Norgatron wrote:
jzwoopwoop wrote:
Anybody know if the inputs on the VCA module are DC coupled? I see the VCA as being so incredibly appealing because in addition to being a dual VCA with lin/exp switch, it's also a dual 3-channel mixer and accepts multiple cv control inputs as well. But if the VCA inputs aren't DC coupled, I'm not as interested in the VCA.

I've read the manual online but it offers no info on this. Would love if someone who owns the VCA could confirm. Thanks!


I haven't tried the 530 with DC input, but the 100m's 130 module is AC coupled. I'd bet the 530 is AC too.


Yeah, I bet you're right. I feel like if it was DC coupled, it would be specifically mentioned somewhere. Bummer. I'd grab that module right away if it was DC coupled.
Roy72
So, I've finished trying to fight off the Roland wants. I'm pretty keen on the filter and the oscillator modules. The delay/phaser is interesting too.

My question is what others are really integral to getting the Roland sound? Does the VCA add a roland special sauce? I have the Intellijel Dual ADSR, which seem pretty Roland to me, but don't have that interesting delay and trigger section in the middle, as well as the LFO.

I guess it's Muffwiggler, I need them all, but how far would the 512/521 combo take me into Roland land?
kwaidan
I'm looking at the System 500 filter for a four voice polyphonic system. Listening to Ignatius' demos, two of them may be what I need. The low end seems to be especially nice, and while I don't want it to go into self-oscillation for chords, it does sound watery.

However, I am aware that some are not so taken by it. I'll add that I do not care if it is an accurate reproduction. I just want something that sounds good for chordal duties. Any comments, demos, or suggestions would be appreciated.
Norgatron
Roy72 wrote:
So, I've finished trying to fight off the Roland wants. I'm pretty keen on the filter and the oscillator modules. The delay/phaser is interesting too.

My question is what others are really integral to getting the Roland sound? Does the VCA add a roland special sauce? I have the Intellijel Dual ADSR, which seem pretty Roland to me, but don't have that interesting delay and trigger section in the middle, as well as the LFO.

I guess it's Muffwiggler, I need them all, but how far would the 512/521 combo take me into Roland land?


Other's may disagree but I think the sound of the VCO and VCF are far more important than than the VCA in terms of the Roland sound.
Norgatron
kwaidan wrote:
I'm looking at the System 500 filter for a four voice polyphonic system. Listening to Ignatius' demos, two of them may be what I need. The low end seems to be especially nice, and while I don't want it to go into self-oscillation for chords, it does sound watery.

However, I am aware that some are not so taken by it. I'll add that I do not care if it is an accurate reproduction. I just want something that sounds good for chordal duties. Any comments, demos, or suggestions would be appreciated.


I can give a two-note system a try and see whether it sounds good to you. Oh, yeah, I got my 540 at last! So I can do that now It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners

I'm not sure what you mean about "accurate reproduction". Do you just mean in terms of similarity to the System 100m and 700?
Roy72
Norgatron wrote:
Roy72 wrote:
So, I've finished trying to fight off the Roland wants. I'm pretty keen on the filter and the oscillator modules. The delay/phaser is interesting too.

My question is what others are really integral to getting the Roland sound? Does the VCA add a roland special sauce? I have the Intellijel Dual ADSR, which seem pretty Roland to me, but don't have that interesting delay and trigger section in the middle, as well as the LFO.

I guess it's Muffwiggler, I need them all, but how far would the 512/521 combo take me into Roland land?


Other's may disagree but I think the sound of the VCO and VCF are far more important than than the VCA in terms of the Roland sound.


It's an interesting VCA though, lots of ins and outs. How many other VCAs have multiple modulation inputs? The Roland demo sounds cool with the LFO and envelope, the drive sounds nice too.
Roy72
Why do they say its 58mm deep?

[img]

[/img]
Norgatron
Roy72 wrote:
Why do they say its 58mm deep?






hmmm.....

Where do you measure depth from? Internal depth from front-panel surface down?

I don't think it's clear on Modulargrid either. https://www.modulargrid.net/s/forum/posts/index/362

You're not including the front panel (albeit a couple of mm) or the power header. And once you have a connector and some wriggle room added on it might be a bit closer to 40mm.

I bought the 65 mm deep Makenoise skiff without bus-board because I was worried about other skiffs being deep enough. I originally planned on the Moog mother case but it's only 48 mm deep. I now wonder if it would have been okay. confused

They all fit into the MN skiff okay and although I haven't measured I don't think there's much room to spare. 10mm at most I reckon. The usable depth could be less than quoted for by MN too.

I do wonder if the depth quoted by Roland is for the whole module, from the pots and sliders down. It would make sense as it doesn't specify and they are not all that deep, as your photo illustrates.
Norgatron
Norgatron wrote:
kwaidan wrote:
I'm looking at the System 500 filter for a four voice polyphonic system. Listening to Ignatius' demos, two of them may be what I need. The low end seems to be especially nice, and while I don't want it to go into self-oscillation for chords, it does sound watery.

However, I am aware that some are not so taken by it. I'll add that I do not care if it is an accurate reproduction. I just want something that sounds good for chordal duties. Any comments, demos, or suggestions would be appreciated.


I can give a two-note system a try and see whether it sounds good to you. Oh, yeah, I got my 540 at last! So I can do that now It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners

I'm not sure what you mean about "accurate reproduction". Do you just mean in terms of similarity to the System 100m and 700?


I had a crack at this the other night.

[s]https://soundcloud.com/steven-norgate/duophonic-system-500-by-norga tron[/s]

Example of duophonic patches with Roland System 500. Driven from Mutable Instruments CVpal.

Most have send effects applied in the EMU 1820m soundcard. The first two are recorded dry and then wet,

Patches start with envelope driving the filter only. Later ones have envelope on the VCA and LFO on the filter.

The VCOs have a variety of subtle modulations applied to them and different waveforms are selected and mixed for each patch.

(Spot the Boards of Canada phrase hihi )
Norgatron
Note sure why SC isn't working seriously, i just don't get it


But here's the linky

https://soundcloud.com/steven-norgate/duophonic-system-500-by-norgatro n
realtrance
Roy72 wrote:
Norgatron wrote:
Roy72 wrote:
So, I've finished trying to fight off the Roland wants. I'm pretty keen on the filter and the oscillator modules. The delay/phaser is interesting too.

My question is what others are really integral to getting the Roland sound? Does the VCA add a roland special sauce? I have the Intellijel Dual ADSR, which seem pretty Roland to me, but don't have that interesting delay and trigger section in the middle, as well as the LFO.

I guess it's Muffwiggler, I need them all, but how far would the 512/521 combo take me into Roland land?


Other's may disagree but I think the sound of the VCO and VCF are far more important than than the VCA in terms of the Roland sound.



It's an interesting VCA though, lots of ins and outs. How many other VCAs have multiple modulation inputs? The Roland demo sounds cool with the LFO and envelope, the drive sounds nice too.


Tony from MakeNoise recently made a very plausible argument that the style and quality of the envelope, particularly the attack phase, is as important if not more important than the filter, for creating characterful sound.

I would tend to agree. There was much discussion many years ago when the Andromeda A6 was released over whether or not its envelopes were "snappy" enough to capture certain types of sounds. At the time, I thought this was a bit overkill OCD, but now with more experience I feel otherwise. Alesis listened enough to add a system update early on that expanded the range of envelope "speeds" in the process generator. The results while subtle are striking.

If you think about the history and science of electronic sound synthesis, you can see why: be it Strawn's early research on FM, or Roland's later combination approach to hybrid digital/analogue in the D50 (the foundation architecturally for everything they've done since, really), much study has been made around the microarticulations that occur during the initial attack phase of any instrument's sound, electronic or not electronic. Some think this is the most important distinguishing factor in giving the ear indicators as to what type of musical sound it is hearing.

More important if the goal is emulation of other instruments, but that knowledge is broadly applicable.

This thus does indeed, then, make the VCA a critical factor in the signature of the sound.

I would assume Malekko/Roland would not have been ignorant of this fact in the creation of the 540, and would therefore argue that it's an important part of what is characteristic in the sound of the System 500 stuff.

All of the above hopefully completely obvious to many here, but perhaps of interest and worth further thought for others.
Roy72
Norgatron wrote:
Roy72 wrote:
Why do they say its 58mm deep?






hmmm.....

Where do you measure depth from? Internal depth from front-panel surface down?

I don't think it's clear on Modulargrid either. https://www.modulargrid.net/s/forum/posts/index/362

You're not including the front panel (albeit a couple of mm) or the power header. And once you have a connector and some wriggle room added on it might be a bit closer to 40mm.

I bought the 65 mm deep Makenoise skiff without bus-board because I was worried about other skiffs being deep enough. I originally planned on the Moog mother case but it's only 48 mm deep. I now wonder if it would have been okay. confused

They all fit into the MN skiff okay and although I haven't measured I don't think there's much room to spare. 10mm at most I reckon. The usable depth could be less than quoted for by MN too.

I do wonder if the depth quoted by Roland is for the whole module, from the pots and sliders down. It would make sense as it doesn't specify and they are not all that deep, as your photo illustrates.


I don't know how to do it properly. I should have explained my photo better, its the VCF, wasn't sure that it was going to fit but does easily. It's about 40mm from the top of the face plate to the bottom of the power header. When I looked at the photos, with the 2 boards, didn't think that they'd be 58mm.
Norgatron
realtrance wrote:
Norgatron wrote:


Other's may disagree but I think the sound of the VCO and VCF are far more important than than the VCA in terms of the Roland sound.


Tony from MakeNoise recently made a very plausible argument that the style and quality of the envelope, particularly the attack phase, is as important if not more important than the filter, for creating characterful sound.

I would tend to agree. There was much discussion many years ago when the Andromeda A6 was released over whether or not its envelopes were "snappy" enough to capture certain types of sounds. At the time, I thought this was a bit overkill OCD, but now with more experience I feel otherwise. Alesis listened enough to add a system update early on that expanded the range of envelope "speeds" in the process generator. The results while subtle are striking.

If you think about the history and science of electronic sound synthesis, you can see why: be it Strawn's early research on FM, or Roland's later combination approach to hybrid digital/analogue in the D50 (the foundation architecturally for everything they've done since, really), much study has been made around the microarticulations that occur during the initial attack phase of any instrument's sound, electronic or not electronic. Some think this is the most important distinguishing factor in giving the ear indicators as to what type of musical sound it is hearing.

More important if the goal is emulation of other instruments, but that knowledge is broadly applicable.

This thus does indeed, then, make the VCA a critical factor in the signature of the sound.

I would assume Malekko/Roland would not have been ignorant of this fact in the creation of the 540, and would therefore argue that it's an important part of what is characteristic in the sound of the System 500 stuff.

All of the above hopefully completely obvious to many here, but perhaps of interest and worth further thought for others.


Well, I don't know exactly what Tony said but it's going to play a part, sure. Over the years though people have generally been talking about filters more than envelopes in terms of emulation.

For the VCA, I still think that because it's primarily there to change the amplitude not the timbre of the sound it won't have anywhere near as much impact on the timbre as the oscillators and filters. Unless it's deliberately designed to add colour in overdrive or or distortion, in which case it's not really 'just a VCA'.

That's not to say that VCAs and envelopes don't have different characters. If you want to emulate an entire synth or system, like the 100m then you can't ignore their design; of course not.

However, I find it hard to believe that using the 540 envelope or 530 VCA with, for example, the Moog Mother32 VCO And VCF, or vice versa, would have anywhere near as much impact on the character of the sound as the timbre parts do.

To be plain, if I want a more Moog-y or Korg-y sound I'll be reaching for the filter and osc's first. Maybe it is ignorance but I'm not persuaded that the other components are as important.

Maybe in some circumstances though. As you say the sought after 'snappiness' comes up time and time again. But that is one only class of envelope shape. If you narrow your emulation needs down to something that is characteristic of only one type of envelope then I will concede that you need that envelope probably more than the other components. But you can take that further and emulate a whole synth and a particular sound it makes by the same token.
tb-303 emulation is a whole industry of it's own because the filter response is only a part of the sound and isolation it's probably not the majority or what makes it sound that way it does. Except without it you are never going to get near your emulation but with it you might.
realtrance
Right and to be clear, this is more about the envelope than about the amp; I was mainly thinking in response to the question of whether the 540 matters in the search to capture "System 100/700" characteristics. I'd say it does, but agree it matters far less than the oscillators or filters.
kwaidan
Norgatron wrote:
Note sure why SC isn't working seriously, i just don't get it


But here's the linky

https://soundcloud.com/steven-norgate/duophonic-system-500-by-norgatro n


The filters really sound nice and powerful. In the meantime, I went with a couple of Saras, but now, I'm starting to regret my decision. I haven't gotten them yet, so who knows . . . Just when you think you've made your last purchase, something else pops up!

I also enjoyed the BOC passages.

Thanks for the demo!
Norgatron
kwaidan wrote:
Norgatron wrote:
Note sure why SC isn't working seriously, i just don't get it


But here's the linky

https://soundcloud.com/steven-norgate/duophonic-system-500-by-norgatro n


The filters really sound nice and powerful. In the meantime, I went with a couple of Saras, but now, I'm starting to regret my decision. I haven't gotten them yet, so who knows . . . Just when you think you've made your last purchase, something else pops up!

I also enjoyed the BOC passages.

Thanks for the demo!


It was a pleasure. I've tried it with a chorus from the 572's audio delay as well now. It was quite effective (accidental pun, cheers!) but I think I need to do a bit more tweaking to get it sounding better.
You've got a tough choice there as what you gain with one you lose with another.
Norgatron
By the way it seems the phaser has 6 stages isn not (cannot be) 5-stage as stated by Roland.

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=165339&highlight=


Posting here for reference and in case anyone has an explanation.
Roy72
Tried to find this through a search, but are the FM mod inputs on the VCO linear or exponential?
risome
Just received my 512 VCO from analogue haven (thanks Shawn) and its as sweet as i expected.Still a big wait time for stock here in Australia but shipping in from The States was a breeze Miley Cyrus
Nightly Closures
Roy72 wrote:
Tried to find this through a search, but are the FM mod inputs on the VCO linear or exponential?


They seem to be linear. However, I could very well be wrong.
Tom_1970
Finally received my System-500 today.
Norgatron
Tom_1970 wrote:
Finally received my System-500 today.

applause
Tom_1970
Thanks. wink

Having great fun with it.
Since these ar my first moves into modular I can't compare it to other Roland modulars from the past or other Eurorack stuff, but it's as fun as I expected it to be after watching "I dream of wires".

My system is now 3 rows of 84 HP.
1. System-1m
2. System-500 + Doepfer buffered multiple
3. Demora

I'm awating a Waldorf KB37, but until it arrives I use a MiniBrute as a controller.
Val
I do not see these modules often in racks, why?
is that because of the poor distributor supplying? I've read that there were stocks problems

These are good for the price. The 530 dual vca with three audio inputs and three mod inputs ? Impressive. Sure it's not dc coupled but still.
jicamasalad
Val wrote:
I do not see these modules often in racks, why?
is that because of the poor distributor supplying? I've read that there were stocks problems.


I agree, I see these modules less than I would expect, but I've assumed that's because of the supply issues - it is still difficult to simply place an order and get one in your hands. That aside, I love my System 500 - have been using it on all sorts of projects since last December - the sounds are fantastic and I think overall the design, aesthetics and build quality are great for the price. I am holding two spaces in my rack in the hopes that they will release a "510" module which would recreate the System 100m 110, which was a single voice VCO/VCF/VCA in one module.

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/307713

Couldn't be happier with my System 500 - thanks to Josh, Roland and Malekko for this great synth!
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 23, 24, 25, 26  Next [all]
Page 24 of 26
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group