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Roland System 500
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules  
Author Roland System 500
dillajay
Demo from Summer NAMM.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDROmy4VnBE
cupwise
dammit. the phaser/delay is the main thing that stands out for me, but i have to admit that basically all of those modules seem pretty good in terms of amount of real estate they'd take up in a case, with each of them being dual and having a lot of controls.
anderson303
"Juicy"

I wonder how I'm going to find room for 3 of these...
qfactor
anderson303 wrote:
"Juicy"

I wonder how I'm going to find room for 3 of these...


Er...get a new case?? seriously, i just don't get it
anderson303
6 104hp rows take up all my closet studio space.

Modules will have to be cut.
simonhold
Really hope the filter will be good. I do recognise the 'Roland' sound a bit from the oscillators, which I like. If the filter is any good, this whole system will be on my watch-list. It will more be a question of personal space, funds and necessity rather than me not liking these.
Norgatron
New videos (via MATRIX).

Roland System 500 demo by Scott from Malekko at TFoM 2015 Tokyo, Japan

https://youtu.be/R7lncyxQTJc

Roland System 500 first sound from its VCO module at TFoM 2015 Tokyo, Japan

https://youtu.be/Vosy1kE8AaI
h4ndcrafted
Too bad didn't get to hear that filter sweep some low frequencies.
erstlaub
hmmm.....

Have to say, some distant audio from a noisy room didn't exactly give me the horn for these.

(not to say that they won't sound great or anything, just I always fail to see the point in pointing a camera at a synth and getting vague, crap audio out and that being posted as marketing/hype content … seriously, i just don't get it ...)
bob the r0bot
It always baffles me when I hear synth demos that don't at least have a direct signal from the synth. It's like, you're monitoring this from something, just bring a splitter and a Zoom.
chrisso
Would have been nice if they'd sequenced a melody, rather than a single note repeating.
Apparently modules are an easy sell. seriously, i just don't get it
unease
I guess we will have proper demos when they become available. They look nice but that is all that can be said sofar...
Norgatron
Yeah, very underwhelmed with the demos there.

I'm really keen to see these released now.

One thing Scott said that caught my ear was that these were the 'first' modules. I guess if these do well they are thinking of adding more to the range.

Maybe then someone will go full Zimmer with them

Norgatron
Zimmer
chrisso
I had two 100M cabinets - ten modules, and I didn't really see the need for any more, unless you are a collector/fetishist.
namshub
Yeah rubbish demos as per usual... Why don't they get someone doing something outrageous with these... Same old analog bass with filter...derp
radiokoala
/OT

anderson303
namshub

ridiculous avatars there guys.. lol
Norgatron
chrisso wrote:
I had two 100M cabinets - ten modules, and I didn't really see the need for any more, unless you are a collector/fetishist.


I was being silly, of course. (although Hans' studio is sacred ground and no laughing matter)

My point should really have been to wonder if Roland are going to stop at these modules. Having provided a Roland sound and a way to get those old sounds (accepting these are not exact copies but are faithful to the originals) in Euro is it job done?
Or, will they go for an expansive range. Clearly the Aira modules are beyond the old 100/700 range and the 1M is Euro friendly, but what about the analogue?
My guess is they'll wait and see, but if they think they can make money doing more modules and hook people into the idea of an Roland based modular with some other stuff, as opposed to just selling some modules as part of a more mixed set-up, they will keep going.
Ultimately, are they along for the ride, or they hoping to take a big slice of the pie?
chrisso
Norgatron wrote:

My point should really have been to wonder if Roland are going to stop at these modules.


I did get your point.
I imagine they are going to stick with these 500 modules for a while.
After all, with the 500 modules, plus a System 1M and the four EFX modules you would have an enormous palette of sounds.
This looks like a dip into the water of Euro hardware to me.
jido_genshi
Wasn't sure if I should post this here since I know the folks at the MuffWiggler store were shooting better video of this (I'm sure they'll upload it soon) but, this is an uncut, rough video of an invitation-only event I attended earlier today which was the world premier of the final production prototypes of the Roland System-500 modules, made by Malekko here in Portland of course.

The presentation is by the creator himself, Joshua Holly of Malekko. It's an almost 30 minute video from a bad angle and I wasn't able to get a direct audio feed, but it still sounds pretty good and has lot's of good tech info regarding these modules (they're nicer than I expected, to be honest.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvCBXBItjDA
karmadelic
wow, it really sounds classic Roland, fat and juicy .... thanks for sharing

I think I need either all 5 , or none at all, does that make sense ? Looks to me like the secret of the classic Roland sound is in the combination of modules.

I wonder what the price will be : it might pull me in or push me away ...
it would be a full voice of Roland , but then there's the full voice of Moog coming out as well .... december he ? oh well , let Santa decide hihi
ndkent


It's unquestionably a take on the vintage System 100M modules if it's not obvious.

Not to be confused with the recent System 100 plugout, an earlier semi modular from Roland with a notably more acidy filter and in my mind more intense VCO having owned both as vintage)

I think of the 100M as sort of an affordable (circa 1979 until Roland blew them out as MIDI took over in the 80s) workhorse sort of system. Trivia is Clavia supposedly referenced the 100M for the Nord Modular including the LP filter. Anyway I mean by workhorse is they don't come in exotic flavors or bells and whistles but are quite solid.

To me, not in an ideal listening environment, the new Malekko 500 ones sound as expected, Thought the sliders were small but kind of fun, knobs a bit big but usable.
Nofrenchtests
Jesus the delay and phaser..I'm not one for the whole vintage resurrection scene, but that shit is off the wall crazy good.
chrisso
Used to love my 100M system. Will almost certainly buy these.
Tago Mago
Edited.
Wrong video.
geecen
chrisso wrote:
Used to love my 100M system. Will almost certainly buy these.


Yea I was wondering how they would compare to the FC modules. As Far as I've read, the FC ones are pretty faithful recreations of the system 100 originals. The only think they don't have from is that delay/phaser.
jonne74
Tago Mago wrote:
A good demo here (Berkeley University Of Music!)



This thread is about the analog System 500 modules. That demo is about the digital System-1m.
chrisso
geecen wrote:


Yea I was wondering how they would compare to the FC modules. As Far as I've read, the FC ones are pretty faithful recreations of the system 100 originals. The only think they don't have from is that delay/phaser.


System 100 and 100M have a different sound.
I don't really know the 100, but the 500 Malekko made modules sound quite similar to 100M (from the videos).
LoveBot
Thanks for the vid!

The effects module has my interest as of now. Josh mentions using the MN3007 for the delay b/c 3004 is too rare. Any idea what the longest delay time is?

Hope to hear more demos of it soon.
mackster
Thanks for sharing - any idea of prices and general release dates? Initially Roland were saying Q3, but I wonder if that's slipped now?
radiokoala
Between these and new moog I think I'm more like "go moog!", but if a person has money and wants to have some roland and moog in their setup, I think both are brilliant offerings.

Plus I imagine a nice combo: mother32 + phaser/delay/lfo, considering it has built-in sequencer (and with two LFOs now), that's going to be quite a powerhouse of a synth in 3U/84HP.

Last, I think system 500 modules are great value on their own: $299 for 2 filters + 2 mixers! where else could you get that? Then, that money also gets you 2 ADSR (that also cycle!) + LFO – the same thing, great deal.... very interesting all in all. w00t
ndkent
chrisso wrote:
geecen wrote:


Yea I was wondering how they would compare to the FC modules. As Far as I've read, the FC ones are pretty faithful recreations of the system 100 originals. The only think they don't have from is that delay/phaser.


System 100 and 100M have a different sound.
I don't really know the 100, but the 500 Malekko made modules sound quite similar to 100M (from the videos).


Frequency Central does only 100M designs as far as I know as does Curetronic's DIY line and several euro companies have done a 100M style dual ADSR fwiw.
CF3
These look interesting. I still regret selling my 100m system 15 years ago waah These could possibly scratch that itch for me. Curious to see the build quality. Hopefully they're nice and solid and not all wobbly plastic shaft construction. They sure as hell look the business. we're not worthy
StringEmil
Of course nobody has these modules yet, but any thoughts on how the envelope will compare to the Intellijel Dual ADSR?
Love sliders to 'see' the curves, and afaik those are the only ones (correct me if I'm wrong).
exper
StringEmil wrote:
Of course nobody has these modules yet, but any thoughts on how the envelope will compare to the Intellijel Dual ADSR?
Love sliders to 'see' the curves, and afaik those are the only ones (correct me if I'm wrong).


There's Also the a synth dual Adsr:

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/amsynths-am8140-dual-adsr-

As far as comparison, the malekko one has an lfo attached, but doesn't have variable stage speed and eod trigger outs, retrigger input or built in vcas for CV output levels. Both have handy regular and inverted outputs. I also think the sliders on the Roland look really short. Sliders are better when you can get more 'resolution' out of them by way of their length. It might be harder to dial in the precise stage times you need to with shorter sliders.
StringEmil
exper wrote:
StringEmil wrote:
Of course nobody has these modules yet, but any thoughts on how the envelope will compare to the Intellijel Dual ADSR?
Love sliders to 'see' the curves, and afaik those are the only ones (correct me if I'm wrong).


There's Also the a synth dual Adsr:

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/amsynths-am8140-dual-adsr-

As far as comparison, the malekko one has an lfo attached, but doesn't have variable stage speed and eod trigger outs, retrigger input or built in vcas for CV output levels. Both have handy regular and inverted outputs. I also think the sliders on the Roland look really short. Sliders are better when you can get more 'resolution' out of them by way of their length. It might be harder to dial in the precise stage times you need to with shorter sliders.

Ahh... I get your point. Thanks! thumbs up
ignatius
mackster wrote:
Thanks for sharing - any idea of prices and general release dates? Initially Roland were saying Q3, but I wonder if that's slipped now?


according to the Roland Rep they're pushing for december but might be january

they just started building them at Darkplace. they sound fantastic. classic roland sound. i think a lot of people will make their way into euro with these modules and then go from there... i think these will be successful and people already way deep into eurorack are going work some of these in their system. they're all really great and have so many ins/outs. very flexible.

we recorded everything yesterday and will get some videos and audio demos up soon. there's an hour's worth of material to piece together. thanks for your patience. smile
quadrupole
I'm still excited about these modules, even though my thoughts tend to flow toward the false dichotomy of these vs the mother 32. I like that the system 500 has discrete modules and each one seems packed with functionality...plus I've owned vintage moog, but never vintage roland for some reason.

If the filters and envelopes live up to vintage roland standards it will be hard to resist SlayerBadger!
Helmey
It's nice to see Roland modules designed by real modular designers. I think the dual design is great and they've added some nice extra features and modulation inputs to each module.

From what I could tell, the VCO and VCF modules sound excellent and if I didn't already have a Eurorack system, I'd be proud to start with these. I imagine they will be on the more pricey side, but not overpriced [I hope].

I'm sure I'll wind up making room for a couple of these modules in my rig and save myself the cost and angst of buying a vintage System 100.

Kudos to Roland. They've been really busy lately and seen to be battling it out with Korg to be the most innovative of the big three.
darcmorcel
Helmey wrote:
I imagine they will be on the more pricey side, but not overpriced [I hope].


Didn't they talk about something around 350$ when the modules were announced for the first time ?
Also, in a video from the summer namm, a Roland rep said it would be set at a very good price ...
Helmey
darcmorcel wrote:
Helmey wrote:
I imagine they will be on the more pricey side, but not overpriced [I hope].


Didn't they talk about something around 350$ when the modules were announced for the first time ?
Also, in a video from the summer namm, a Roland rep said it would be set at a very good price ...


I never saw any pricing information. If they're $350, that would be a very fair price. thumbs up
A Terre
Damn.
computer controlled
So angry i couldn't make this =o[
SmartBits
exper wrote:
There's Also the a synth dual Adsr:

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/amsynths-am8140-dual-adsr-

AMSynths also built the AM8075 Dual ADSR:
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/amsynths-am8705-dual-adsr

That one has bigger sliders and even the same caps as a Juno 60! They're both almost impossible to get your hands on though, I was very lucky getting mine. They do have less features than the Intellijel, which I quite like as well. But I think the new Roland/Malekko ones are tempting too, lots of control!
Warpsmasher
So will they run only off standard doepfer style power, or have their own adapters? I kind of want them to start a revolution. I also can't wait to see how Moog spins the whole power issue.
ignatius
the roland series 500 modules are standard eurorack format and run on standard eurorack power.

you can see in the video they're running on a 4ms row power 30
h4ndcrafted
I'm literally poised to buy all of these if they are the price that is being thrown around.
Warpsmasher
It just seems odd for them to release anything without it's own power source, for so many reasons. This would be a first, no battery option and no power adapter. Maybe there will be some kind of adapter as a second option, like the Airas? It could start something big, especially if Moog joins in.
Barlov
What?
ignatius
Warpsmasher wrote:
It just seems odd for them to release anything without it's own power source, for so many reasons. This would be a first, no battery option and no power adapter. Maybe there will be some kind of adapter as a second option, like the Airas? It could start something big, especially if Moog joins in.


what are you talking about? the modules are eurorack format modules and run on eurorack power.. as said.. in the video you can see they are running on a 4ms row power 30 thumbs up they're eurorack modules.. why would they add battery power when they're trying to make something for an existing format.
TifaretMusic
Personally I'm just surprised they haven't announced a powered case yet. Are they expecting Guitar Center etc to start carrying cases from other manufacturers for displaying/demoing these or are they only planning on distributing them at places that already sell euro?
Barlov
I doubt that these will be stocked at the major stores. This is a malekko/roland collab.
exper
Even the hybrid effects modules are online only. I was hoping to pop into a Banjo Center and try out the Demora...
Barlov
exper wrote:
Even the hybrid effects modules are online only. I was hoping to pop into a Banjo Center and try out the Demora...


You need to head into a Lute Centre.
moog man
exper wrote:
Even the hybrid effects modules are online only. I was hoping to pop into a Banjo Center and try out the Demora...


The day we see Eurorack/modular in guitar center will really be something. Pretty cool that sweetwater stocks some modular stuff, that's probably the highest profile mass market store you could point to with modular. but yes, online nonethless
exper
moog man wrote:
exper wrote:
Even the hybrid effects modules are online only. I was hoping to pop into a Banjo Center and try out the Demora...


The day we see Eurorack/modular in guitar center will really be something. Pretty cool that sweetwater stocks some modular stuff, that's probably the highest profile mass market store you could point to with modular. but yes, online nonethless


Elsewhere on MW, someone posted that the pgh guitar pedal cases popped in in their GC.

When I dropped by my local one a few weeks ago to get a beat step pro, the sales guy recognized my make noise shirt right away, and that's as in a suburban NJ location.
jido_genshi
TifaretMusic wrote:
Personally I'm just surprised they haven't announced a powered case yet. Are they expecting Guitar Center etc to start carrying cases from other manufacturers for displaying/demoing these or are they only planning on distributing them at places that already sell euro?


Though ignatius may have better info on this than I, I did speak with the Roland rep afterwards and he did mention that they were going to make a powered case/rack and "probably" sell all modules with the case as a complete system option for "like about $1999 or something close to that".

As for prices of the individual modules, he told me that they haven't completely nailed down the prices yet, but probably $299 to $349 (he made it sound like it would be no more than $349 and that was for one of the modules and the others would be $299, but I may have read too much into it, so take it with a grain of salt.)

I was hoping the MuffWigglers would have posted their video by now for a better close-up look at what Joshua was doing on the modules, but searching Youtube for recent System-500 videos only comes up with my video thus far... seriously, i just don't get it
Warpsmasher
ignatius wrote:
why would they add battery power when they're trying to make something for an existing format.
I meant it would be the first product they released that didn't have either battery or wallwart as a power option...which is very unusual for a company whose products are otherwise so accessible to the average layman.
The implied understanding of eurorack is a big step away from that. It's a pretty significant acknowledgement of the industry, and if anyone can take it mainstream and into guitar center, it is the big three. I don't think that's a goal for any of them yet, but if the trend grows, there are likely to be some dramatic moves working towards cheaper power for everyone.
jido_genshi
Warpsmasher wrote:
ignatius wrote:
why would they add battery power when they're trying to make something for an existing format.
I meant it would be the first product they released that didn't have either battery or wallwart as a power option...which is very unusual for a company whose products are otherwise so accessible to the average layman.
The implied understanding of eurorack is a big step away from that. It's a pretty significant acknowledgement of the industry, and if anyone can take it mainstream and into guitar center, it is the big three. I don't think that's a goal for any of them yet, but if the trend grows, there are likely to be some dramatic moves working towards cheaper power for everyone.


That is my hope as well, that eurorack becomes more widespread. With traditional synth manufacturers like Dave Smith, Waldorf, Roland and now even Moog with their Mother-32, I wonder what more it would take to see a eurorack corner in Guitar Center? I guess they're waiting, like you said, for Korg and Yamaha to jump into the game...
flo
Helmey wrote:
Kudos to Roland. They've been really busy lately and seen to be battling it out with Korg to be the most innovative of the big three.


And what an amazing battle of innovation it is, right? SlayerBadger! With all three coming out with totally new products having no connection whatsoever to what they've done before and all that hihi
chrisso
flo wrote:
Helmey wrote:
Kudos to Roland. They've been really busy lately and seen to be battling it out with Korg to be the most innovative of the big three.


And what an amazing battle of innovation it is, right? SlayerBadger! With all three coming out with totally new products having no connection whatsoever to what they've done before and all that hihi


You're damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Lot's of Roland fans have been pestering them for years to reproduce the 100, 100M and 700 Series - not to mention the 808, 909 and TB303.
MATSmile
chrisso wrote:
flo wrote:
Helmey wrote:
Kudos to Roland. They've been really busy lately and seen to be battling it out with Korg to be the most innovative of the big three.


And what an amazing battle of innovation it is, right? SlayerBadger! With all three coming out with totally new products having no connection whatsoever to what they've done before and all that hihi


You're damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Lot's of Roland fans have been pestering them for years to reproduce the 100, 100M and 700 Series - not to mention the 808, 909 and TB303.

Except nothing of that so called reproduction sounded even half as good as original did.
jido_genshi
MATSmile wrote:
chrisso wrote:
flo wrote:
Helmey wrote:
Kudos to Roland. They've been really busy lately and seen to be battling it out with Korg to be the most innovative of the big three.


And what an amazing battle of innovation it is, right? SlayerBadger! With all three coming out with totally new products having no connection whatsoever to what they've done before and all that hihi


You're damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Lot's of Roland fans have been pestering them for years to reproduce the 100, 100M and 700 Series - not to mention the 808, 909 and TB303.

Except nothing of that so called reproduction sounded even half as good as original did.


Really? You've spent quality time with the System-500 have you? Because I actually have...
chrisso
Yeah, the critics are really clutching at straws with that one.
Critiquing the sound of something barely anyone has heard in person yet. Good going.
Dogma
Josh was given the keys to the castle, the 12 secret herbs and spices, the full wraparound by Roland - all the original schematics and the dudes that designed em - theres no unobtanum parts that would make them any less "authentic" - i dont get why theres any negativity at all.....i bet theyre gonna end up in a LOT of racks and it aint because of the "name" either....
chrisso
My personal experience of Roland is that they pride themselves on their customer service.
I received three brand new 'boutique' Euro modules last week, two of them were faulty and can't be used.
The rack/psu is a bit of a minefield also. After using other products, I've ended up back with Doepfer (psu). If Roland had a rack and power system I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
flo
I'm not criticizing the big three, they just do what they need to do: generate cash.

I do find it rather funny to call this race "innovative" though thumbs up
chrisso
flo wrote:
I'm not criticizing the big three, they just do what they need to do: generate cash.


Well Intellijel, Make Noise, Mutable Instruments all 'generate cash'. they have to in order to keep afloat.

Quote:
I do find it rather funny to call this race "innovative" though thumbs up


Has anyone? I haven't. But isn't it pretty innovative to produce a hardware modular system where you can build your own modules in software, then use the hardware modules to control them (EFX series)?
flo
chrisso wrote:
flo wrote:
I'm not criticizing the big three, they just do what they need to do: generate cash.


Well Intellijel, Make Noise, Mutable Instruments all 'generate cash'. they have to in order to keep afloat.


Yes, so? seriously, i just don't get it

chrisso wrote:
Quote:
I do find it rather funny to call this race "innovative" though thumbs up


Has anyone? I haven't. But isn't it pretty innovative to produce a hardware modular system where you can build your own modules in software, then use the hardware modules to control them (EFX series)?


You might want to read my post again (emphasis added by me):

flo wrote:
Helmey wrote:
Kudos to Roland. They've been really busy lately and seen to be battling it out with Korg to be the most innovative of the big three.


And what an amazing battle of innovation it is, right? SlayerBadger! With all three coming out with totally new products having no connection whatsoever to what they've done before and all that hihi
chrisso
Yeah, I just think you are working hard to put a negative spin on the effort.
The EFX modules, although not my bag, are reasonably innovative.
karmadelic
What's up with all that Roland bashing ?

My first synth was a Juno60, then I got a 303 and 606 combo, later an 808 and a 909, etc ... all great stuff (and damn me I sold it all apart from the Juno)

The age of D-beam equipped workstations never got me exited, but the whole AIRA and especially system500 line is a great move back to basics imho : back to tweaking, hands-on control and having fun, which is essentially what Eurorack is about.
flo
I'm not bashing Roland or trying to be negative guys. I guess I'm a huge Roland fanboy. I have the entire X0X range. Several of the polys. And so on. Just found it funny that someone would call the current frenzy "innovative". FX modules or not.
bkbirge
I'm looking forward to these, not only because of the sound and look but I'm super stoked at having attenuators on each of the multiple inputs. Honestly, that little bit of often overlooked genius takes this to a whole 'nother level for me. Same reason I like MA's panel for the triple wave folder, those attenuators on the input. What would make it even sexier would be if they were all attenuverters but I suppose folks would start to complain about the short travel on the sliders then. Very tempted to build a complete two voice 6u system just on these and maybe an MA MVP and NLC super sloth to round it out.
bobbcorr
chrisso wrote:
The rack/psu is a bit of a minefield also. After using other products, I've ended up back with Doepfer (psu). If Roland had a rack and power system I'd buy it in a heartbeat.


This is one area where a big manufacturer could really grow the market. There will always be a space for DIY, but to borrow from Crossing the Chasm, it's by definition an enthusiasts/early adopter user approach to solving the problem. As a "post-chasm" manufacturer with the operating experience to address the mass market, they've got a neat opportunity.

_seph
flo wrote:
I'm not bashing Roland or trying to be negative guys. I guess I'm a huge Roland fanboy. I have the entire X0X range. Several of the polys. And so on. Just found it funny that someone would call the current frenzy "innovative". FX modules or not.


reading through the thread I didn't get the impression that you were. I also wouldn't necessarily call any of this "innovative", it's just Roland and to me that name almost inherently implies some level of forward thinking.

I'm on the fence with these... I've got a very "been there done that" attitude with analog in general, especially of the vintage sort. but. the 100m is something kind of special... but conversely I love my Aira gear and think the FX modules are very clever.

that aside, Roland has succeeded... back in '00 I was ready to buy a Wiard system and then decided to go with Kyma and a Nord Modular instead. the Nord I still have today but Kyma and I did not have a positive relationship... anyway, having a history of being a collector I've actively avoided Eurorack these past years but Harvestman put it back on my radar and it's just been a parade of temptation since... this last year with the IDoW doc hasn't helped and now all of this... ...I love my System-1 and with the System-100 Plug-Out finally available I'm really close to adding a 1M and it is now a certainty that at some point in the next several months I will have finally succumb to a Euro system help

but it's still really up in the air for me whether the System-500 will have a place. Harvestman, Make Noise, Mutable Instruments. definitely. Roland's Aira modules, sure. classic VCO synth stuff... I don't know, but even though I'm more interested in modular sampling/sound processing than traditional synthesis it's hard to not imagine that photo of Chris Carter with his System-100m and though I generally dismiss people's nostalgia and hero worship, fucking Throbbing Gristle we're not worthy

so in short, I'm going to keep a close eye on these and glean what I can from all of you. I imagine that NAMM 2016 will be extra interesting.
h4ndcrafted
MATSmile wrote:
Except nothing of that so called reproduction sounded even half as good as original did.


Having just done a side by side with the sh-2 plug I'd say you are right about the 50% not being as good.

Because it is more like 85% as good, save the env not quite being there, but it is bloody close.
vegas7188
Hi seph,

You say the Roland 100m has something special, and i have heard others say this too and was just wondering what kind of things you think are special about it? And make it stand out? And i guess which of these things would you (and others) be hoping for from the new Roland 500 series?

I know these things can be hard to describe, its just i haven't heard or used a 100m in person, so its hard to gauge what is considered its stand out features: what is unique about the sound (or ergonomics etc.) that makes its different from other modular synths from now and the past?

Thanks!
_seph
vegas7188 wrote:
Hi seph,

You say the Roland 100m has something special, and i have heard others say this too and was just wondering what kind of things you think are special about it?


I wish I had a real answer for you but in all honestly that which makes it "special" is mostly how it's eluded me. I've owned/used/played a lot of classic synths but I've never encountered any of Roland's old modulars, which is just odd as they're not that rare.

this also has a good deal to do with it~ http://throbbing-gristle.com/CHRISCARTER/content/sos/roland_100m.html

anyway. aside from an MS-10 and VC-10 years ago, my only modular experience is with virtual modulars so I'm sure others will have far more real info. me? it's just been near the top of my list for a long time.
MATSmile
jido_genshi wrote:
MATSmile wrote:
chrisso wrote:
flo wrote:
Helmey wrote:
Kudos to Roland. They've been really busy lately and seen to be battling it out with Korg to be the most innovative of the big three.


And what an amazing battle of innovation it is, right? SlayerBadger! With all three coming out with totally new products having no connection whatsoever to what they've done before and all that hihi


You're damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Lot's of Roland fans have been pestering them for years to reproduce the 100, 100M and 700 Series - not to mention the 808, 909 and TB303.

Except nothing of that so called reproduction sounded even half as good as original did.


Really? You've spent quality time with the System-500 have you? Because I actually have...

I want to point out that 99.99% of System 500 made by Malekko, not Roland. Roland is there just as TM.
ignatius
there's a nice vintage Roland System 100m in the MW shop. i've spent some time with it. it sounds great. you're welcome to come patch it. thumbs up

however, i'd rather have the system 500 eurorack modules and i don't even really need to think about that. they sound fantastic. they're very flexible. really.. they sound awesome. they're very much a part of the same family as all the really great sounding vintage roland stuff that people love. this, to me, is indisputable. seriously, i just don't get it
coyoteous
It's the other .01% I'm worried about (and the short sliders).
chrisso
I owned and used a 100M system for several years.
The main thing is it's just a very solid (not flakey), easy to use system.
Soundwise, the oscillators are very stable and rich. The filter has that classic Roland twang - which you've heard on thousands of dance records from Shalamar to Chicane to modern techno/house. The envelopes are snappy. The phaser is very strong - similar sounding to the Malekko in the video.
The system sounded very different to my other modular at the time (Doepfer, Arp 2600, Analogue Systems). And having tried a few recent clones, I haven't found anything that totally nailed the 100M sound.
I would a 100M system again if it weren't so expensive (comparatively).
I used mine for about 8 years between the late 90's and early 2000's and never had a single performance or maintenance issue. I only sold the system when I had to move countries.
I have constantly missed that osc/filter combination, and feel I'm hearing it in the Malekko 500 (but I could be wrong). I plan to buy all of the 500 Series modules.
darcmorcel
Thinking about the possibility of a complete system sold in a dedicated case, it would be great from Roland if they planned to add a few bonusses like a mult, a S/H + noise, or something like the audio interface 2 from Intellijel, integrated in the bottom of the case as in the System-100m

So in the eventuallity of someone from Roland reading those lines (who knows)...
computer controlled
coyoteous wrote:
It's the other .01% I'm worried about (and the short sliders).


I had a good 20 minute session with these last week. And i will say that the construction is top notch! All the pots are attached to the face plates, the sliders have a really nice resistance to them and they hardly wobble. Very solid. And i don't feel they are too short.

These things sound wonderful!! I cannot wait until they are available! The whole set will fit perfectly into a TTA Happy Ending set up with the 4hp power module. Pure sex!

Miley Cyrus
LoveBot
Where are the line-in audio demos of the production models? Ninja
ben_hex
LoveBot wrote:
Where are the line-in audio demos of the production models? Ninja


Problem is I don't have any yet! :-)
ignatius
we have a bunch of recordings from the demo Josh did. I'll see about getting them on line somewhere.
computer controlled
The sooner these are in my hands, the sooner demos will be had!

twisted
Norgatron
ignatius wrote:
we have a bunch of recordings from the demo Josh did. I'll see about getting them on line somewhere.


thumbs up
darcmorcel
Bump!

Bumpin' for audioclips !
theewiper
darcmorcel wrote:
Bump!

Bumpin' for audioclips !


yep this
anderson303
Is there an ETA already?!?!

Enough is enough...
GryphonP3
anderson303 wrote:
Is there an ETA already?!?!

Enough is enough...


+1. Ready to buy these as soon as they go on pre-sale.
dubnspace
still no news bump
303ish
I'm going to a induced coma, please wake me up when they are available
claas
Are there any news about the delivery time and pricing?
h4ndcrafted
Srsly want the 572 module , can't wait to put my Micromac through it.
A UserName
Ya fiending for these esp. the phaser. Any news? Wen can I buy??
Norgatron
It seemed from the video we have seen that Roland expected this to be later than planned. Possible Q1 next year. I'm not expecting anything this month anyway.

The video delay is annoying though. Any news on that?
LoveBot
ignatius wrote:
we have a bunch of recordings from the demo Josh did. I'll see about getting them on line somewhere.


one month later, I guess waiting to release them for PR?
edgek8d
If they indeed won't be ready, basically now.....then that's a mistake. Holidays are coming, synth purchases are down amd used prices go up. Everyone needs to buy gifts, right?

These were revealed at NAMM last January, right? If they aren't out before NAMM 16', then they are allowing god knows what, to steal their thunder. Who knows what is coming this year? I just think revealing 10 months ago, and still no word on pre-order date yet, is a mistake and will hurt their sales.

I mean, had these come out 4-6 months ago, I'm probably buying the shole line-up. Now, I have other stuff, and am happy with it.

There HAS to be pre-ordering available before up coming NAMM, they just have to, or we will all commit money elsewhere. Does it burn a hole in your packet like mine?
Norgatron
edgek8d wrote:
Does it burn a hole in your packet like mine?


Yes.
masru
There is a new press release, and info on rolandus:

http://www.rolandus.com/products/system-500_512/
SmartBits
They're even making their own case:

http://www.rolandus.com/company/press_releases/30289



And updated pages on the modules:

http://www.rolandus.com/products/system-500_512/
http://www.rolandus.com/products/system-500_521/
http://www.rolandus.com/products/system-500_530/
http://www.rolandus.com/products/system-500_540/
http://www.rolandus.com/products/system-500_572/
D_Bowman
edgek8d wrote:
If they indeed won't be ready, basically now.....then that's a mistake. Holidays are coming, synth purchases are down amd used prices go up. Everyone needs to buy gifts, right?

These were revealed at NAMM last January, right? If they aren't out before NAMM 16', then they are allowing god knows what, to steal their thunder. Who knows what is coming this year? I just think revealing 10 months ago, and still no word on pre-order date yet, is a mistake and will hurt their sales.

I mean, had these come out 4-6 months ago, I'm probably buying the shole line-up. Now, I have other stuff, and am happy with it.

There HAS to be pre-ordering available before up coming NAMM, they just have to, or we will all commit money elsewhere. Does it burn a hole in your packet like mine?


I've been patiently waiting for these as my re-entry to modular so my pocket is completely made of ash now. I oscillate between this and Atlantis because I want a Rolandy re-entry. Still waiting for some good line in demos though!
bkbirge
SmartBits wrote:
They're even making their own case:

http://www.rolandus.com/company/press_releases/30289



And updated pages on the modules:

http://www.rolandus.com/products/system-500_512/
http://www.rolandus.com/products/system-500_521/
http://www.rolandus.com/products/system-500_530/
http://www.rolandus.com/products/system-500_540/
http://www.rolandus.com/products/system-500_572/


Case looks nice, surprised it's only one row. Really nice to see the details of the modules up close. Attenuators for everyone!
Spunny
they had to produce an own case after they realized they built guitar pedals instead of euro-stuff ^^

still no sign of the malekko series i guess....
bassnode
Spunny wrote:
still no sign of the malekko series i guess....


AFAIK, those 500 modules are the Malekko ones. No? seriously, i just don't get it
m0d
Spunny wrote:
they had to produce an own case after they realized they built guitar pedals instead of euro-stuff ^^

still no sign of the malekko series i guess....

What do you mean? That is a eurorack case and there are five links to the Malekko/Roland modules in that post.
m0d
bassnode wrote:
AFAIK, those 500 modules are the Malekko ones. No? seriously, i just don't get it

Yes. The "M" on the panels is for Malekko.
nanners
wired
Finally. Any news on availability?
bkbirge
How would y'all change this?
MindMachine
^ Nope that looks about right. thumbs up

I do not care for the flying buss strips though. I have never owned one but am leery of them.
revel8or
I just got spammed by Roland about the 500. So, is there any word on module price, yet? I've looked around and it seems like they're in the 300s as a msrp...
mikelad
nice case
Spunny
@ m0d

450mA for only one aira module. you can run 6-12 normal euro modules with that power, thats what i meant.. thx for the malekko poke, didnt see that This is fun!
A UserName
m0d
Spunny wrote:
@ m0d

450mA for only one aira module. you can run 6-12 normal euro modules with that power, thats what i meant.. thx for the malekko poke, didnt see that This is fun!


Oh! Sorry about that. I understand. Mr. Green 450mA is a fairly big draw for a small effect (pedal/module/etc). The hungrier strymon pedals require about 300mA. Non-DSP pedals tend to require less. The highest-current socket on my Cioks wouldn't be able to power an Aira module? I'm actually not surprised. (Edit: The Cioks is great - and I'm not surprised Roland's DSP gear requires that much current.)

I wonder what the power requirements are for the modules. (Sorry if I missed it somewhere). Since they are not DSP-based, I imagine at least three or four would still be less than an Aria effect.
303ish
m0d wrote:
I wonder what the power requirements are for the modules. (Sorry if I missed it somewhere). Since they are not DSP-based, I imagine at least three or four would still be less than an Aria effect.


The specs are updated on Modular Grid
darcmorcel

BUT WHEN ?!
rgcmusic
Please for Christmas
wellurban
bkbirge wrote:
How would y'all change this?


Hard to say without knowing how you want to use it, but from my perspective I'd definitely want some CV-able modulation. I know that recommending Maths is a cliché, but personally I'd swap one of those 540's out for Maths or something similar.
chrisso
bkbirge wrote:
How would y'all change this?


Definitely just one of everything to start with.
I had a similar 100M System and hardly ever used more than two oscillators (one Dual Osc module) and never more than one filter.
I'd also swap out an Env/LFO for a Maths.
Flohr
Curious about the envelope. What's up with the outputs? A bit confused, is it separate outputs for the different stages? Why no decay output? Am I reading the panel wrong?
Malekko
Flohr wrote:
Curious about the envelope. What's up with the outputs? A bit confused, is it separate outputs for the different stages? Why no decay output? Am I reading the panel wrong?


Of the line, the 540 was the most difficult to lay out panel wise. (i easily have over 100 hours just in faceplate design)

the top (and bottom two) L to R is EXT input positive env (see the env shape, that took me forever to create) then another pos output then a negative output.
Once you "see" it it's clear, but at first glance it is confusing
Flohr
Malekko

Ah now I get it. And the external in is for gates/triggers. And it's not labeled gate or trigger because it can be either depending on the switch. When it's cycling does the input do anything?

I see now it's got the two positive and one negative output, which I take it is typical for Roland modules. But instead of having the outputs next to the sliders they are above them, which I take it has to do with keeping the hp manageable? I can also dig having consistency with the outputs on the top for the other modules as well.

They look awesome dude, I can't wait to check them out in person! I wonder if we could get someone to come down to ATL for a demonstration of all the new Roland stuff... hmmm.....
cubisteffects
Having tried the prototypes, the 540 is a great modulation module. Having CV control over three envelope stages and the ability to use as three LFOs is very handy. I can see my Mutable Links next to it to mult/mix some additional CV into this.
Kodama
Are you playing Volt Divers???

Malekko wrote:
I hate tator totts.
wellurban
cubisteffects wrote:
Having tried the prototypes, the 540 is a great modulation module. Having CV control over three envelope stages and the ability to use as three LFOs is very handy. I can see my Mutable Links next to it to mult/mix some additional CV into this.


Huh: I'm confused. When I first looked at the 540, I was excited to see what looked like CV inputs associated with Attack, Sustain and Release. However, on closer inspection I thought they were envelope outputs (2 positive and one inverted), and recent comments here from Malekko seemed to confirm that. I'd love to have CV control over the envelopes, so if you confirm that they really do, then that would be great!
MindMachine
Malekko wrote:
Flohr wrote:
Curious about the envelope. What's up with the outputs? A bit confused, is it separate outputs for the different stages? Why no decay output? Am I reading the panel wrong?


Of the line, the 540 was the most difficult to lay out panel wise. (i easily have over 100 hours just in faceplate design)

the top (and bottom two) L to R is EXT input positive env (see the env shape, that took me forever to create) then another pos output then a negative output.
Once you "see" it it's clear, but at first glance it is confusing


Yeah - at first glance it looks like the Attack/Decay/Sustain/Release are referring to the jacks, but they are obviously for the sliders. The actual outputs are the same legend as the original 100M. It is just a tight fit on the panel, but looks about as good as it could be.

Real curious about the Delay module.

Mr. Malekko - what a trip that you have covered from Wiard to Roland. Nice job. Can't wait to try the full set.
JuanSOLO
I can hardly stand the wait.
Latest news on a release date?
dubnspace
Advice needed.
I have a pretty limited 3U right now, mainly consisting of Metropolis, ES-3/ES-5, Disting and a SVVCF filter. I'm mainly using this setup for interfacing with a TTSH and RSF Kobol Expander. I'm definitely buying these Roland modules and am looking for another key module for some more modulation. I don't have much HP to play with so I'm thinking either a MN Function or a Tides. Which would you pick or is there a better option?
ndkent
in case anyone is interested -

I friend of mine located online Japanese prices @ Ishibashi music if anyone is curious.

As a "disclaimer" I used the exchange rate Apple uses for their calculator. In reality currency exchange tends to be at least a 4% fee above the posted price. This isn't necessarily the price of the module in your country. I looked up the price for their Bitrazor module as a sort of comparison. There seems to be 8% tax included these prices fwiw. No I'm not actually in Japan and can't help you order anything.

512 Modular VCO 42,120円 US$342
521 Modular VCF 42,120円 US$342
530 Modular VCA 38,880円 $315
540 Modular 2ENV-LFO 42,120円 US$342
572 Modular PHASE SHIFTER/DELAY/LFO 46,440円 US$377

BITRAZER 39,960円 $324
Norgatron
You bet I'm interested hyper

$342 is about £230 today.
Norgatron
I notice that the SYR-E84 case is now on sale in the UK at £289

http://www.gak.co.uk/en/roland-syr-e84-eurorack-case/126718
mikeyx13
I see a release date of December 24th in Japan, I've got my money put away for the 572.
Norgatron
Okay here we are.

Gear4Music and Dolphin have them for sale in the UK.
http://www.gear4music.com/Roland/System-500

They are all £279.00 (including VAT) each.

Down from RRP £309.00 apparently thumbs up

That's a pretty long way from

£1,395.00
Proceed to Checkout?


£1,684.00 with the case... A bit more than I was budgeting but still The Chewbacca Defense
peripatitis
Very sensible pricing imo..If i were to start now i would probably start with their system.
masru
Musicstore.de in Germany has them as well. EUR 376 for the 512 ...
dubnspace
wonder if guitar center will be carrying these. looking like these are going to major retailers.
anderson303
If you call World of Stereo on Market Street in SF a major retailer... But not the usual modular suspects that's for sure?
h4ndcrafted
Ok gonna buy the 572 for now.

Can somebody explain the gated delay setup ? is it gated version of the first delay section ?

I kind of missed that it was more of a chorus delay effect tbh.
nectarios
ARGH!
Eichburger
Are there any proper demo's yet? I've seen the trade show ones but I haven't seen anything since.

I'm so tempted...
Norgatron
Eichburger wrote:
Are there any proper demo's yet? I've seen the trade show ones but I haven't seen anything since.

I'm so tempted...


Not exactly

There was this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Pzx7MgXFFs

and then this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48vBT3AeiMk


Neither have direct line audio.

I am starting to wonder if they don't want us to hear this thing before we buy it! hmmm.....
Eichburger
Norgatron wrote:
Eichburger wrote:
Are there any proper demo's yet? I've seen the trade show ones but I haven't seen anything since.

I'm so tempted...


Not exactly

There was this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Pzx7MgXFFs

and then this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48vBT3AeiMk


Neither have direct line audio.

I am starting to wonder if they don't want us to hear this thing before we buy it! hmmm.....


Thanks Norgatron, I hadn't seen those.

Hopefully the early adopters out there will be on it!
mackster
The gear4music site is showing "Estimated delivery to you: 26 Jan 16" .
Anywhere actually holding stock?
h4ndcrafted
mackster wrote:
The gear4music site is showing "Estimated delivery to you: 26 Jan 16" .
Anywhere actually holding stock?


My date is 23rd December when I ordered , either its been pushed back , or all the first delivery is gone ?
jido_genshi
Norgatron wrote:
Eichburger wrote:
Are there any proper demo's yet? I've seen the trade show ones but I haven't seen anything since.

I'm so tempted...


Not exactly

There was this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Pzx7MgXFFs

and then this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48vBT3AeiMk


Neither have direct line audio.



I am starting to wonder if they don't want us to hear this thing before we buy it! hmmm.....



I posted a video early on of the world premier of the final prototypes from Josh of Malekko himself. I couldn't get direct audio, but it is a pretty thorough demo of each module (more of a tech demo.) Here it is again...

Norgatron
h4ndcrafted wrote:
mackster wrote:
The gear4music site is showing "Estimated delivery to you: 26 Jan 16" .
Anywhere actually holding stock?


My date is 23rd December when I ordered , either its been pushed back , or all the first delivery is gone ?


Yep, looks that way. Seems I'll have to wait if I order now. Dolphin only offer a "Register Interest" link.
Norgatron
h4ndcrafted wrote:
Ok gonna buy the 572 for now.

Can somebody explain the gated delay setup ? is it gated version of the first delay section ?

I kind of missed that it was more of a chorus delay effect tbh.


It's a control voltage gate delay. It has it's own time setting

It's covered by Josh in Genshi's video from around 13:00. Josh love's it!
baseck
w00t SlayerBadger!

now available to demo at the Muff Wiggler shop in Portland, Oregon! 12pm-6pm Tuesday - Saturday
computer controlled
I highly recommend people go play with these!
D_Bowman
baseck wrote:
w00t SlayerBadger!

now available to demo at the Muff Wiggler shop in Portland, Oregon! 12pm-6pm Tuesday - Saturday


Is there a USD price on these?
ignatius
baseck wrote:
w00t SlayerBadger!

now available to demo at the Muff Wiggler shop in Portland, Oregon! 12pm-6pm Tuesday - Saturday



Kummer
@ignatius

Will you be posting some demos??
ignatius
Kummer wrote:
@ignatius

Will you be posting some demos??


at some point.. probably lot's of instagram clips at first and eventually some youtube stuff. Derrick will probably do some too.. and of course roland and malekko will post some stuff.

i've never patched the roland modules so will spend some time getting to know them a bit and trying to come up with something worth recording.. but perhaps some basic 'what do these things sound like' will come first. so far the word is that the VCO tracks ridiculously well.
the tone ranger
ignatius wrote:
so far the word is that the VCO tracks ridiculously well.


That's one of the many things Malekko do very well. Good to know they got it right again thumbs up
Kummer
Awesome!

I also just noticed the varigates module from the picture which is the new Malekko trigger seq/modifier that has been teased, I assume. w00t
anderson303
the tone ranger wrote:
ignatius wrote:
so far the word is that the VCO tracks ridiculously well.


That's one of the many things Malekko do very well. Good to know they got it right again thumbs up


What does that mean? Supposedly my Addac 701 doesn't track as well, but it sounds awesome all the time?
h4ndcrafted
Norgatron wrote:
h4ndcrafted wrote:
Ok gonna buy the 572 for now.

Can somebody explain the gated delay setup ? is it gated version of the first delay section ?

I kind of missed that it was more of a chorus delay effect tbh.


It's a control voltage gate delay. It has it's own time setting

It's covered by Josh in Genshi's video from around 13:00. Josh love's it!

I knew I had seen it in a demo, just thought I was sure it wasn't that one.

So I went hunting for videos of the 172 module, very thin on the ground, but I did find this.
bkbirge
Too bad they missed the boat on Christmas availability, sweetwater is doing free shipping.
anderson303
h4ndcrafted wrote:

It's a control voltage gate delay. It has it's own time setting

It's covered by Josh in Genshi's video from around 13:00. Josh love's it!


Hey, could I get the same thing out of an attack decay cycle loop? Like in the CTG-VC?
Norgatron
anderson303 wrote:
h4ndcrafted wrote:

It's a control voltage gate delay. It has it's own time setting

It's covered by Josh in Genshi's video from around 13:00. Josh love's it!


Hey, could I get the same thing out of an attack decay cycle loop? Like in the CTG-VC?



On the old 100m 172 module it's a very simple gate delay (or "pulse shifter"). The design is just a pair a of 555 timers and nothing fancy. I assume the 572 is the same.

The CTG-VC, or any such module could sorta delay a pulse but that isn't really correct as you're changing the shape. So, no direct equivalent of the 572 Delay Time. It can change a pulse width though so the Gate Time is possible.

From the manual "The gate delay also has a built-in high gain amplifier with a THRESHOLD control so that low level pulses recorded on tape can be amplified and shaped into a form which will trigger synthesizer functions."
anderson303
Norgatron wrote:
"The gate delay also has a built-in high gain amplifier with a THRESHOLD control so that low level pulses recorded on tape can be amplified and shaped into a form which will trigger synthesizer functions."


That's awesome.
jicamasalad
As a previous owner of a System 100m, I am very much looking forward to these modules.
ignatius
bkbirge wrote:
Too bad they missed the boat on Christmas availability, sweetwater is doing free shipping.


there's a handful of modular shops that do free shipping in the US (year round) on modules so no loss really. wink
computer controlled
Are these now available?
ignatius
computer controlled wrote:
Are these now available?


no. the MW store has them in the demo system though. they should be shipping before long.
Kummer
Does the delay/phaser module sound like the 172 video posted above?
ignatius
Kummer wrote:
Does the delay/phaser module sound like the 172 video posted above?


hard to tell anything from that video but i'll just say the 500 series phaser sounds really great. juicy. responds well to all rates of modulation. super slow or audio rate. it's great. i like it a lot. the delay i haven't patched sa much but i like it too. really just getting to know the modules.

general statement about all the modules is they sound like roland. they have a vintage thing that is attached to that roland sound so i think people will respond to that and like it. the oscillator tracks great.. FMs nicely too.

each module is dual and the filter and vca have mixers in them so you have 3 inputs in each filter.. separate waveform outs for each oscillator.. you can make really complex timbres and fat everything. it can bubble and squeal and fart or poke your eye out or be lush and pretty like old roland mono synths..

it's good shit. hits the spot. they're nicely done.
computer controlled
As above. They really do sound wonderful! That Phaser is really nice. These can't get into my hands fast enough!
mackster
What I'm reading about these modules sounds great, and I'm really looking forward to checking out and hopefully buying these modules, but it would be very helpful if someone with access to the units already out could please post some audio (if you're allowed to?)...
wired
Will have a set really soon. I hear there are just 5 sets available for Europe right now. And one of those is entering Belgium any moment Rockin' Banana!
wired
Saturday is the day w00t w00t w00t
Kummer
ignatius wrote:
Kummer wrote:
Does the delay/phaser module sound like the 172 video posted above?
they have a vintage thing that is attached to that roland sound


w00t
h4ndcrafted
I knew it was too good to be true, my 23rd Dec date has been pushed back :(

Hope I don't have to wait for gear4music till the 16th as now advertised, first time I used them as we'll, hope they are ok.
_lex
these modules sound like sex! way archetypal!
303ish
No audio demos yet? Dead Banana
wired
The System 500 modules are great! Will try to upload a few noodles of mine.
numan7
Enjoy the show!


cheers
karmadelic
Quote:
The System 500 modules are great! Will try to upload a few noodles of mine.


looking forward to that hyper hyper hyper
any place to come and try them in Belgium ?
wired
[s]http://soundcloud.com/nicolasdwa/sys500noodle[/s]
Dogma
where are you guys getting these modules from??
wired
My synth shop has a direct line towards Roland Benelux HQ hihi
They managed to get a set for me... wanted a System 100M for a long time, but this is even better in my humble opinion applause

Feel free to drop any question you might have and I will do my best to answer.
Eichburger
wired wrote:
[s]http://soundcloud.com/nicolasdwa/sys500noodle[/s]


Great to hear the real thing. Thanks for posting and keep 'em coming.

Will have to save my beans for a few months before I can get a set. can't wait...
D_Bowman
Thanks for posting the demo! I'd love to hear more also since I've long been waiting for these as well.
wired
Next one:

[s]http://soundcloud.com/nicolasdwa/sys501noodle[/s]
LoveBot
wired wrote:
My synth shop has a direct line towards Roland Benelux HQ hihi
They managed to get a set for me... wanted a System 100M for a long time, but this is even better in my humble opinion applause

Feel free to drop any question you might have and I will do my best to answer.


Hey, thanks for posting some line-in quality demos! I have a question about the 572- what is the audio delay time? Is it more of an echo/chorus effect or is it possible to get some nice warm bbd style delays out of it?
Also, do you know what OTA the VCA is based on? Is it LM13700 by chance? or CA3080E?
jicamasalad
Yes, thanks for posting some of the first samples where we can actually HEAR the sound of the system - much appreciated!




ks
JuanSOLO
Again, thanks for posting demos.
As much as I want to hear them, I'm not sure I need too.
The video with Josh at the MF shop pretty much sold me on these.
Malekko having the schematics and recreating inspired versions of that, i'm all in.

Can hardly stand the wait!
Eichburger
And another thing...

I can't find a single image of the SYR-E84 Case with the system 500 modules (or any other modules) installed.

I need to see them...
efm-7
I ordered the 512 VCO. Apparently it shipped this morning. Here's hoping it makes it through the snowstorm and I get it this week haha.
JuanSOLO
efm-7 wrote:
I ordered the 512 VCO. Apparently it shipped this morning. Here's hoping it makes it through the snowstorm and I get it this week haha.


From where?
efm-7
JuanSOLO wrote:
efm-7 wrote:
I ordered the 512 VCO. Apparently it shipped this morning. Here's hoping it makes it through the snowstorm and I get it this week haha.


From where?


Moog Audio here in Canada. I was even able to use a boxing day promo code for a decent discount - a nice break to slightly ease the pain of our terrible exchange rate.
dubnspace
still not listed anywhere in the U.S. that I can find.
wired
LoveBot wrote:
Hey, thanks for posting some line-in quality demos! I have a question about the 572- what is the audio delay time? Is it more of an echo/chorus effect or is it possible to get some nice warm bbd style delays out of it? Also, do you know what OTA the VCA is based on? Is it LM13700 by chance? or CA3080E?


The 572 delay is BBD, the longer the delay time, the more noisy its clock gets/repeats. You can reduce or eliminate the clock noise with the LPF.
You can get echo/chorus or even flanger effects. But in my opinion it's not a warm vintage delay... No idea about the VCA.
wired
Eichburger wrote:
And another thing...

I can't find a single image of the SYR-E84 Case with the system 500 modules (or any other modules) installed.

I need to see them...


No Roland case here... Using my black Monorocket and looking very nice!
JuanSOLO
efm-7 wrote:
JuanSOLO wrote:
efm-7 wrote:
I ordered the 512 VCO. Apparently it shipped this morning. Here's hoping it makes it through the snowstorm and I get it this week haha.


From where?


Moog Audio here in Canada. I was even able to use a boxing day promo code for a decent discount - a nice break to slightly ease the pain of our terrible exchange rate.


Thanks!
Cant decide if I should wait till I find some in the US or not.
jicamasalad
Sources tell me the first batch of modules have arrived at Roland in LA, and will be backordered by the end of the day; I'm guessing that means some units will be heading to dealers very soon, then more on the way in January. Getting closer every day!
ignatius
recorded a jam video today. will post it later tonight after i sync the audio and edit out the chaf.

lot's of phaser.. some filter acid bits and some audio rate modulation of various things for some atonal fart magic.
MindMachine
ignatius wrote:
atonal fart magic.


Niiiice. Cant wait for the phase. Any delay action?
JuanSOLO
ignatius wrote:
recorded a jam video today. will post it later tonight after i sync the audio and edit out the chaf.

lot's of phaser.. some filter acid bits and some audio rate modulation of various things for some atonal fart magic.



YES!!!
thetwlo
what BBD chip is in the delay?
thanks!
clarkbt
thetwlo wrote:
what BBD chip is in the delay?
thanks!


Josh says MN3007 in that presentation that was posted a few pages back.
h4ndcrafted
My 572 will be delivered today It's peanut butter jelly time!
ignatius
like a dip shit i didn't hit record on the handheld recorder for the first 7 minutes. doh. fuckwad that i am. missed some stuff i really liked. oh well.

still 10 minutes of noodling around a pretty basic patch. it's phaser heavy.

patch is pretty simple. 2 square waves 1 saw into the filter. noisering provides pitch and also some filter modulation. noisering clock out triggers the envelope which opens the VCA. phaser is post VCA and goes from dry to wet and back again through out the video.

it's pretty simple stuff. just trying to show what they sound like. I'll record some more tomorrow and saturday and try to get it all uploaded asap.

darcmorcel
Thanks for this demo Ignatus applause
Eichburger
Right, thats me 100% sold. Thanks for sharing Ignatius.

It is exactly how I hoped it would sound, kind of plastic but alive at the same time. Brilliant.
h4ndcrafted
Haven't had time to do a demo, but I thought I'd upload some close ups of the 572.





Zodanga
Thanks for posting these photos! They will have to hold most of us over until we can get our hands on these modules! smile

The PCB pic shows lots of quad op-amp chips, several 555's down at the bottom where you would expect to see them for the gate conditioning circuitry, and that big fat 1024-stage delay chip in the middle.
jicamasalad
Zodanga wrote:
... and that big fat 1024-stage delay chip in the middle.


And socketed no less!
Hooray for signs of a quality build!
Malekko
Thanks for posting this picture!
A little info on the audio delay. The original 172 used an MN3004 and really was a chorus. For the 572 i used a (much more available yet still 15v) MN3007 and overclocked the crap out of it. From 0 to around 5 will be that chorus detune range but after that it goes into "delay" territory (yes i know choruses are delays too...you know what i mean) Since an oscillator running at high frequencies drives a BBD you will start to hear it come into audible range at around 5 on the time pot and the more you turn that pot the longer the delay times plus lower in pitch the clock becomes. You can coax the BBD delay (about 500ms) by doing this:
set up your patch as you typically would with osc env vca etc. At the end of that signal chain mult it. Take one multed signal and put it to one channel of your final output mixer (a 530 will work) then take a duplicate and run it into the input of the delay and the output into a LPF (a 521 works great) then the output of that filter into a 2nd channel of your mixer. You can use the LPF to roll of the highs (just like one does when designing an analog delay) and get rid of the clock frequency...the mixer will allow you to adjust the levels of dry and effected signal in the final mix. Roland will release some patch diagrams that they and i suggest trying at some point. ENJOY!
h4ndcrafted
So what is the mix knob for, or is this just for being able to roll off high frequencies ?

Doesn't a bbd darken the wet signal normally , or is this just to get rid of the driving Osc signal ?

Sorry to be confused, never used a module like this before.
Malekko
h4ndcrafted wrote:
So what is the mix knob for, or is this just for being able to roll off high frequencies ?

Doesn't a bbd darken the wet signal normally , or is this just to get rid of the driving Osc signal ?

Sorry to be confused, never used a module like this before.


The Mix knob blends the delay level into overall output...if the pot is at 0 it is dry, at 10 is mostly effect very little dry

BBDs dont darken by nature, but BBD based delays filter its repeats, essentially roll off the highs like the above example within the circuitry itself, thats why some manufacturers BBD delays are darker than others, they just filtered the circuit more. Make sense?
Malekko
Also something that is fun...the internal LFO on the 572 is 5v P to P so have a nice bassy square going into the phaser have the mod pot all the way up the shift freq at 1 the res all the way up and mix all the way up...have the LFO go to a nice slow speed...listen to it for a few cycles then insert an external (10V) lfo and hear it completely rip some phasing craziness!! Dont forget audio rate too...
And a noisering into the audio delay mod in...magic
ignatius
recorded another 20+ minutes of demo time with the malekko/roland modules. mostly dry but some delay and very techno + filtery modulations and melodic funnery. very sweet sounding oscillators and filters. to me they just sound good and rolandy like vintage roland hugs.

the more time i spend with them the more i like them. as a little system they jam.
wired
Malekko wrote:
Thanks for posting this picture!
A little info on the audio delay. The original 172 used an MN3004 and really was a chorus. For the 572 i used a (much more available yet still 15v) MN3007 and overclocked the crap out of it. From 0 to around 5 will be that chorus detune range but after that it goes into "delay" territory (yes i know choruses are delays too...you know what i mean) Since an oscillator running at high frequencies drives a BBD you will start to hear it come into audible range at around 5 on the time pot and the more you turn that pot the longer the delay times plus lower in pitch the clock becomes. You can coax the BBD delay (about 500ms) by doing this:
set up your patch as you typically would with osc env vca etc. At the end of that signal chain mult it. Take one multed signal and put it to one channel of your final output mixer (a 530 will work) then take a duplicate and run it into the input of the delay and the output into a LPF (a 521 works great) then the output of that filter into a 2nd channel of your mixer. You can use the LPF to roll of the highs (just like one does when designing an analog delay) and get rid of the clock frequency...the mixer will allow you to adjust the levels of dry and effected signal in the final mix. Roland will release some patch diagrams that they and i suggest trying at some point. ENJOY!


Thanks for sharing this!
dubnspace
both Sweetwater and Control have these for pre-order now. Hoping someone will offer these a bundle with the case for a slightly discounted price.
jicamasalad
Roland informed me that "complete systems", 1 of each module, in the case, will become available in the new year. They didn't mention if there would be a "package discount"...
h4ndcrafted
dubnspace wrote:
both Sweetwater and Control have these for pre-order now. Hoping someone will offer these a bundle with the case for a slightly discounted price.


Yep I checked with my local in the UK and he rang the dealer. They said they would be available as a system.

I expect price will be slightly discounted. I plan on getting the rest.
efm-7
got the 512




efm-7
Sorry for the bad photos. But After staring at the back of this thing for a while, the only thing I see that could be the matched transisor is an SC-88? package marked "1Ft" which brings up the Philips BC847BS.
ignatius
here's 20 more minutes. no phaser. a bit of short delay + high feedback here and there and lot's of noodling in between groovy things.

theewiper
how's the throw on the sliders? same as the jp-08?
JuanSOLO
just pre-ordered all 5 from Sweetwater.
STOAKED! Been wanting to get into eurorack for a while now, I feel like these will be a good way in.
Hi5
Any info on how many stages the phaser is?
moremagic
according to what i read on roland's website, the 572 uses a five stage phaser
ignatius
theewiper wrote:
how's the throw on the sliders? same as the jp-08?


haven't seen a jp-08 let alone got hands on one so can't compare.

the sliders on these modules are fine. certainly more than adequate for the job. i don't have any issues dialing in modulation amounts or audio levels.
wired
Sliders of the modules are much bigger and better than the JP-08.
h4ndcrafted
Helllo geeks and freaks, I bring you sound of the 572 module.

Metropolis/Atlantis
Mod = Peaks in expert tap mode on 572s delay mix parameter.
Output through clouds, mostly dryjust because it is attached to my soundcard.
Don't get clouds delays confused with 572's, like you would right ?
But if you hear any reverb you know clouds is in the mix.

This is first try so... but there is some cool noises especially cocking around with the delays rez it is easy to obtain hihats etc.

Like the scratchy rez at around 12:00, also nice on bass towards the end 17:35 onwards.
7:30 welcome to your death 8:03 weird chime situation.
20:50 Drain pipe flange
[s]http://soundcloud.com/h4ndcrafted/roland-572-demo[/s]
h4ndcrafted
Also


3:18 loving the crunchy rez on this thing!
JuanSOLO
Sweetwater called me after I pre-ordered all 5 to make sure I wasn't crazy and that I meant to order 5 things they didn't have.
He said they expected them early February.
Zodanga
I was curious to compare the new Roland System-500 modules against the original 100M modules. This is not a sound comparison, just a physical/features comparison. I used the Dual VCO as an example. I'd like to share the results.

Note that I do not own these two modules -- this was done using Photoshop, a calculator, and information available on the internet.







Some thoughts:

Considering that the panel area of the EuroRack modules are half that of the originals, Roland/Malekko have done an amazing job converting these while still preserving the "style" and feature set. The only thing the new VCO module is lacking compared to the original VCO is an attenuator on one of the frequency inputs, but considering that this is the 1v/8va input, and the original KBD voltage was supplied directly via a normal, this makes perfect sense. You don't want a pot inline with your keyboard voltage, and you still have two other modulation inputs that do have attenuators.

Conversely, the original module used three-position slide-switches to select an output from the three available waveforms, whereas the new module provides all three simultaneously. (The 112 had a second output but it duplicated the first.)

The next interesting discovery was that, although the 512 is half the size of the 112, the useful range of the attenuating sliders appears to be less than 5mm shorter on the new modules compared to the originals (measured from the 0-10 markings on each, not the 'slot').

I only had the 1981 MSRP in Yen for the 112, so I had to jiggle some numbers for conversion and inflation using web converters, but it looks like the 112 was more than twice as expensive in 1981 US Dollars as the 512 is today.

Without even having these modules in hand yet, I'm already pretty impressed.

(If I've made any errors, please point them out.)
h4ndcrafted
Nice info Zodanga.

These units seem nicely built, the only issue I have found is that the jacks are so close to pots on the 572 there is no way of getting your finger in there, maybe with doepfer style jacks ?
It is a roll your finger across the top of the pot type affair , but this is not unusual in eurorack, given the amount of parameters it is totally expected.
jonne74
How many square centimeters is the 16HP euro panel? Is that one thousand? I think you're still in millimeters there.

Interesting about the fader throw.
Zodanga
I think you may be right about the units. I must have slipped a decimal place there.
ignatius
we have a system 100m in the muff shop. i can take a pic saturday of it next to euro if anyone needs it?
joem
Zodanga wrote:
I was curious to compare the new Roland System-500 modules against the original 100M modules. This is not a sound comparison, just a physical/features comparison. I used the Dual VCO as an example. I'd like to share the results.


Thanks, I know nothing of the original 100M stuff, so this was a fun comparison. Any plans to compare any of the others? (Assuming the others are as direct an update as this one...)
ignatius
joem wrote:
Zodanga wrote:
I was curious to compare the new Roland System-500 modules against the original 100M modules. This is not a sound comparison, just a physical/features comparison. I used the Dual VCO as an example. I'd like to share the results.


Thanks, I know nothing of the original 100M stuff, so this was a fun comparison. Any plans to compare any of the others? (Assuming the others are as direct an update as this one...)


in one of the early NAMM interviews i think i recall Josh saying that the 100m is only part of where the system 500 modules got their inspiration.
h4ndcrafted
I thought they were supposed to based on 100 and 700 no ?
wired
Another impression of the Roland System500 by Malekko:

[s]http://soundcloud.com/nicolasdwa/sys502noodle[/s]
tomhall
What is the maximum delay time?

Is it possible to get some feedback going like with the Moogerfooger Delay?

thanks
h4ndcrafted
tomhall wrote:
What is the maximum delay time?

Is it possible to get some feedback going like with the Moogerfooger Delay?

thanks


I have no idea, but you can get it feed backing and going into Lofi crunchiness , there is some in the sound cloud link I put up.
vailsy
no offense to anyone here, there are some lovely demos, but after both trying these out and listening to others i didn't hear anything compelling enough to make me buy all of these modules. maybe the matched pair filter but not all 5 units. still at least roland/malekko have given us the option rather than fusing them into one super module
wired
[s]http://soundcloud.com/nicolasdwa/sys503noodle[/s]
Zodanga
Quote:
I thought they were supposed to based on 100 and 700 no?


That was what I had heard/read as well. Though that probably refers more to the schematics -- the feature sets and layouts of the new modules definitely mimic the System-100M modules much more closely than they do the System-700 modules.

The module that is the most similar between the three systems appears to be the Dual Envelope Generators. Below is a scale size comparison between the three systems. In this case, the System-700 module is closer in size and aspect to the new EuroRack module, but only because the 705A was a shorter utility module (140mm/5.5" high). The primary modules were 11" high in the '700! Even so, you can see that with the inclusion of the LFO, the 540 is modeled more on the 140 overall. (The numbering conventions of the new modules directly aligns with the System-100M as well).

The 540 does seem to borrow the 'range' switch from the 705A, though (presumably "F/S" is "Fast/Slow"). And it adds the Cycle switch which neither of its predecessors had.

wired
Quote:
That was what I had heard/read as well. Though that probably refers more to the schematics -- the feature sets and layouts of the new modules definitely mimic the System-100M modules much more closely than they do the System-700 modules.

The module that is the most similar between the three systems appears to be the Dual Envelope Generators. Below is a scale size comparison between the three systems. In this case, the System-700 module is closer in size and aspect to the new EuroRack module, but only because the 705A was a shorter utility module (140mm/5.5" high). The primary modules were 11" high in the '700! Even so, you can see that with the inclusion of the LFO, the 540 is modeled more on the 140 overall. (The numbering conventions of the new modules directly aligns with the System-100M as well).

The 540 does seem to borrow the 'range' switch from the 705A, though (presumably "F/S" is "Fast/Slow"). And it adds the Cycle switch which neither of its predecessors had.



I really like those comparisons Guinness ftw!
Zodanga
Just for fun, here's a "speculation" of what an output mixer conversion could look like...

Zodanga
@Ignatius, you said there's a System-100M in the Muff shop... do you know if the front panels are metal or plastic? They have an embossed or molded look to them, and I've always wondered.

Here's a VCA comparison between the three systems:




Feature-wise, they're pretty similar, but the huge 704's actually had a little less flexibility, with fewer audio input options and one less modulation input. The 530 adds the "Sum" output as well.
jicamasalad
The System 100m has a plastic front panel, and the boards are enclosed in a metal chassis behind the front panel. Also of note, the jacks do not have nuts attaching them to the front panel.

As far as the SUM jack on the 540, I would expect this to be a SUM INPUT, not an output; this would allow you to daisy-chain the output of the first VCA into the second without using valuable input attenuators. This is just a guess, having not seen the system first hand.

In looking at the front panels of all the modules from the System 100m which have been reconfigured for the System 500, it looks as though nearly every feature is included, plus some lovely additions, such as the cycle switch on the ADSRs.

Very excited to get my system and start playing - will post some sounds later in the week.
computer controlled
Where is everyone getting these from?
dubnspace
computer controlled wrote:
Where is everyone getting these from?


noisebug shows them as "in stock".
control and perfect circuit both have them up as pre order but I suspect they'll both have them in stock quite soon if noisebug already has them..
computer controlled
I find it weird that Noise Bug would have them, yet Muff Wiggler doesn't.
ignatius
computer controlled wrote:
I find it weird that Noise Bug would have them, yet Muff Wiggler doesn't.


we'll have them soon. thumbs up

they're distributed by Roland.. not Darkplace so i think people who were already authorized Roland dealers may have gotten a leg up in line.. we _just_ became an authorized Roland dealer and will have the System 500 modules and some other roland goodies soon... they're on the way now smile

fwiw we've had the system 500 modules in the demo case for a couple weeks now.

also, worth mentioning that Darkplace doesn't give priority to MW Store. For whatever modules Darkplace distributes the MW store has to order through the normal channels and follow the same rules about street date, announcements etc. Even though we're neighbors the playing field is totally level.
computer controlled
That makes sense.
ben_hex
Still got finger crossed Roland reach out for video demos, as it's nothing to do with Darkplace I have no connection ... and I'd LOVE to check them out after having spent a good amount of time on a System 100m. Only part of the inspiration I know but still curious as to the similarities in tone.
jicamasalad
jicamasalad wrote:
As far as the SUM jack on the 540, I would expect this to be a SUM INPUT, not an output; this would allow you to daisy-chain the output of the first VCA into the second without using valuable input attenuators. This is just a guess, having not seen the system first hand.


So, Owners Manuals are now up on the Roland website, and they clarify that the SUM jacks on the 540 are OUTPUTS which deliver the sum of both VCAs.
Zodanga
@jicamasalad -- Thanks for that information! I've been wondering about the panels since I first saw them in the 1979 catalog!

Here's another scale comparison, this time the Phase/Delay sections. For size differences, it's the most dramatic, but there are other differences: the System-700 panels are dual/stereo, but they're also lacking the gate delay found on the other two modules.

(I couldn't find a decent, in-focus photo of the System-700 panels so that's a drawing from the Roland "The Synthesizer" book, which is wonderfully relevant to the System-500 modules because of the similarities to the S-100m.)

phutureboy
I only hope when they build a System 500 sequencer that they take their inspiration heavily from the System 700 sequencer which is a gem...
Zodanga
I'm reading the 'Parameter Sheet' for the '572 Phase/Delay module. There are two statements regarding the LFO section that have me a little puzzled.

First, it says, "The LFO of the 572 module is designed so that the output voltage decreases as the frequency rises, so that it can be used to modulate the phase shifter or delay."

So I'm reading that as meaning: as the rate is increased via the knob, the amplitude of the output waveforms decreases. Why is that desirable? Especially considering the 'Phase' and 'Delay' sections have their own attenuators for their respective modulation inputs.

Second, under LFO Frequency, it says, "If nothing is connected to the "MOD - EXT CV" jack of the PHASE or DELAY, the LFO changes at the rate specified by FREQUENCY." Presumably "FREQUENCY" refers to the unlabeled knob in the LFO section.

But I read that as meaning the rate of the LFO is controlled by its knob unless a CV is patched into the MOD - EXT CV jacks of the above sections. That seems very odd and circular. I wonder if some words are missing there... maybe it should read: "If nothing is connected to the "MOD - EXT CV" jack of the PHASE or DELAY, the LFO changes the SHIFT FREQ and DELAY TIME of those sections at the rate specified by the LFO FREQUENCY." ?
daveholiday
I have been looking for power connection/requirement info...anybody have pics or info?
Zodanga
The document "SYSTEM-500_e01.pdf" on the Roland support site has power & connection info for the five modules.

EDIT: Go here... http://www.rolandus.com/support/owners_manuals/n_s

Scroll all the way down to the System-500 modules. Click on any of them. "Owner's Manual" is the overall system sheet you want, "Parameter Guide" is the feature doc for each module.
daveholiday
Thanks for the info....It has been awhile since i checked the Roland site!!
Bath House
I have a nice-sized System 100m and am the creator of this forthcoming video series:

I just ordered some of the Roland modules and am looking forward to doing a shootout and comparison vids! If Malekko or anyone else is open to sending me the modules for this, I'd love to talk. SlayerBadger!

I know the 100m in and out and though I know the 500 series isn't meant to be a direct clone, I'm really curious to see how they compare and stack up. If anyone else has 100m questions, I can answer them.
ju4n
daveholiday wrote:
I have been looking for power connection/requirement info...anybody have pics or info?


There are detailed unboxed photos of the front and back on page 9 of this thread. They ship with a standard euro ribbon cable and current draw is on the spec page on the roland website. The VCO is 70 mA (+12 V), 55 mA (-12 V).
ju4n
I have been curious about a detail on the Roland page. It states "Built in the USA and assembled in Japan"

If these were manufactured at Darkplace, what aspect of these modules is being referred to as "assembled" in Japan? Any muffs or darkplace folks have any insight into this?
nanoreed
Switched On has them in stock.
dubnspace
nanoreed wrote:
Switched On has them in stock.


so does Detroit Modular.
Malekko
ju4n wrote:
I have been curious about a detail on the Roland page. It states "Built in the USA and assembled in Japan"

If these were manufactured at Darkplace, what aspect of these modules is being referred to as "assembled" in Japan? Any muffs or darkplace folks have any insight into this?



I can! Darkplace MFG ships (for now) fully built, tested and calibrated system 500 modules to Japan...minus the rotary knobs There they re-test them and stick the rotary knobs on them (the slider caps already are on them) package them and send them all over the world. So "assembly" means apply knobs.
dubnspace
Malekko
Will the bigger shops like Guitar Center and Sam Ash be carrying these?
Malekko
dubnspace wrote:
Malekko
Will the bigger shops like Guitar Center and Sam Ash be carrying these?

I am assuming so, these are in the Roland catalog and distribution network so i assume they will at least be available for special order at the big box stores.
ju4n
Malekko wrote:
ju4n wrote:
I have been curious about a detail on the Roland page. It states "Built in the USA and assembled in Japan"

If these were manufactured at Darkplace, what aspect of these modules is being referred to as "assembled" in Japan? Any muffs or darkplace folks have any insight into this?



I can! Darkplace MFG ships (for now) fully built, tested and calibrated system 500 modules to Japan...minus the rotary knobs There they re-test them and stick the rotary knobs on them (the slider caps already are on them) package them and send them all over the world. So "assembly" means apply knobs.


Interesting! Thanks for the insight.

So I've noticed, regarding the rotary knobs on the 512, that it has 8 steps while the octaves only range 5". Also that when switching between the octaves, the oscillator chirps the highest octave pitch in between the all of the other lower octave settings.

is this known standard behavior with this production run?
Malekko
ju4n wrote:
Malekko wrote:
ju4n wrote:
I have been curious about a detail on the Roland page. It states "Built in the USA and assembled in Japan"

If these were manufactured at Darkplace, what aspect of these modules is being referred to as "assembled" in Japan? Any muffs or darkplace folks have any insight into this?



I can! Darkplace MFG ships (for now) fully built, tested and calibrated system 500 modules to Japan...minus the rotary knobs There they re-test them and stick the rotary knobs on them (the slider caps already are on them) package them and send them all over the world. So "assembly" means apply knobs.


Interesting! Thanks for the insight.

So I've noticed, regarding the rotary knobs on the 512, that it has 8 steps while the octaves only range 5". Also that when switching between the octaves, the oscillator chirps the highest octave pitch in between the all of the other lower octave settings.

is this known standard behavior with this production run?


Yeah, there are two types of switches, shorting and non-shorting, small PCB mount rotary switches are non-shorting so in between 'clicks" it will have a high frequency. Also Song Huei (the switch manufacturer) gave everyone 8 clicks instead of 4..so you get extra octave(s)...its a feature, right? w00t
efm-7
I'm loving the 512 module so far!

I just wish the tune knob would go a fifth up. It's just shy of a fifth, but I can make it happen by bumping it up with a static voltage.
Bath House
[quote="Malekko"][quote="ju4n"][quote="Malekko"]
ju4n wrote:
I have
Yeah, there are two types of switches, shorting and non-shorting, small P confused confused CB mount rotary switches are non-shorting so in between 'clicks" it will have a high frequency. Also Song Huei (the switch manufacturer) gave everyone 8 clicks instead of 4..so you get extra octave(s)...its a feature, right? w00t


Sounds like a sloppy design decision, actually. That's something I'd expect out of a MFOS or Paia type thing. confused
Malekko
It's not a "design decision" i didn't say gee, i really prefer non shorting switches...they actually aren't made, therefore could not be used.
Bath House
Malekko wrote:
It's not a "design decision" i didn't say gee, i really prefer non shorting switches...they actually aren't made, therefore could not be used.


Oh, weird! This seems like a major problem. I haven't seen it happen on other synths.
jicamasalad
Bath House wrote:
Malekko wrote:
It's not a "design decision" i didn't say gee, i really prefer non shorting switches...they actually aren't made, therefore could not be used.


Oh, weird! This seems like a major problem. I haven't seen it happen on other synths.


Wondering why you consider it a major problem? Do you typically switch the octave range of your oscillator manually during performance? If so, yes, you will hear the momentary higher tone, but if you, like many, many composers, set the initial range of the oscillator then modulate with CV this will be a non-issue for you.

Not trying to start a flame war, just curious if people often find themselves switching base frequency during performance.

And if so, well here is a new performance opportunity! I nice high "pip" before you switch up or down an octave.
Bath House
jicamasalad wrote:
Bath House wrote:
Malekko wrote:
It's not a "design decision" i didn't say gee, i really prefer non shorting switches...they actually aren't made, therefore could not be used.


Oh, weird! This seems like a major problem. I haven't seen it happen on other synths.


Wondering why you consider it a major problem? Do you typically switch the octave range of your oscillator manually during performance? If so, yes, you will hear the momentary higher tone, but if you, like many, many composers, set the initial range of the oscillator then modulate with CV this will be a non-issue for you.

Not trying to start a flame war, just curious if people often find themselves switching base frequency during performance.

And if so, well here is a new performance opportunity! I nice high "pip" before you switch up or down an octave.


Yes, I actually do use octave switch jumping like that on most synths, as a part of performance. That's why it stuck out to me - but honestly, it's just the idea of having any sort of interruption of expected behavior that's also alarming. A high pitched "glitch" will feel and sound like just that.
anderson303
I really don't care myself. And they are one the way, the VCF, VCO and 572 effects.

Now about that Varigate 4?

Then I'm done buying Eurorack for real this time.
jicamasalad



Here are one of each of the modules in the SYR case.

Very pleased with the look/feel and build quality of the system, considering the price point.
No patch cords here at work so samples will have to wait a little bit.
Mitaric
Here are my first two patches from the System-500. Both clips below have a bit of Halls of Valhalla on them. The first clip is solo, while the second clip adds a couple of extra parts from Elements and Peaks.

[s]https://soundcloud.com/mitaric/system-500-first-patch[/s]

Really enjoying the sound of these modules so far. w00t
Mitaric
Second clip...

https://soundcloud.com/mitaric/system-500-first-patch-with-elements-an d-peaks

(Can't get this to load here properly...sorry!)
bkbirge
Nice clips, Roland sounds nice. So tempting but just a touch too pricey to convince me to reconfigure my system...yet. Really love the design choices and sounds though.
MindMachine
^ I would like to see/hear a full Roland voice next to an AJH MiniMod full voice in a case. Just for fun.

The 540 is looking very dense. That VC LFO snuck in there is fully featured.
flo
Bath House wrote:
jicamasalad wrote:
Bath House wrote:
Malekko wrote:
It's not a "design decision" i didn't say gee, i really prefer non shorting switches...they actually aren't made, therefore could not be used.


Oh, weird! This seems like a major problem. I haven't seen it happen on other synths.


Wondering why you consider it a major problem? Do you typically switch the octave range of your oscillator manually during performance? If so, yes, you will hear the momentary higher tone, but if you, like many, many composers, set the initial range of the oscillator then modulate with CV this will be a non-issue for you.

Not trying to start a flame war, just curious if people often find themselves switching base frequency during performance.

And if so, well here is a new performance opportunity! I nice high "pip" before you switch up or down an octave.


Yes, I actually do use octave switch jumping like that on most synths, as a part of performance. That's why it stuck out to me - but honestly, it's just the idea of having any sort of interruption of expected behavior that's also alarming. A high pitched "glitch" will feel and sound like just that.


+1 Octave switches are great fun to jam! Definitely bit of a bummer, none of my other VCOs w/ octave switches do this...

Anyways, carry on thumbs up
chrisso
Bath House wrote:


Yes, I actually do use octave switch jumping like that on most synths, as a part of performance. That's why it stuck out to me -


Very few modular oscillators have octave switching anyway, especially in the vintage age. I see it more as a bonus myself.
chrisso
Nothing seems to be available in the UK as yet.
waah
LoveBot
I'm thinking of replacing my CA3080e -based Doepfer VCA for the Roland dual VCA. Given that the Roland proprietary chip used in a lot of Roland synths - the BA662a -is obsolete, and now the CA3080e is discontinued as well, what did Malekko use for replacement? I'm guessing...LM13700? Or perhaps BA6110? Or more modern SSM2164? How does the VCA sound? Is it completely transparent? Can it be overloaded for subtle saturation?
coyoteous
efm-7 wrote:
I'm loving the 512 module so far!

I just wish the tune knob would go a fifth up. It's just shy of a fifth, but I can make it happen by bumping it up with a static voltage.

This seems like an oversight... will they tune down a fifth?

Also, is there a noise generator I'm missing on any of the modules?

This is my first time to see the modules in the Roland case (thanks poster!).

4 hp leftover... 2 on each side in these pictures?

Is there talk of any more modules?

I'd hate to fill one of these cases, and not have room for new additions, etc.

Thanks!
Zodanga
In the original System-100M 'basic layout,' the noise was provided by the 150 module, which also had a Ring Modulator, Sample & Hold, and LFO. It's possible that a "550" might be in the works, but I guess for this first pass they decided that the Phase/Delay module would generate more interest than noise/RM/S&H.
coyoteous
Zodanga wrote:
In the original System-100M 'basic layout,' the noise was provided by the 150 module, which also had a Ring Modulator, Sample & Hold, and LFO. It's possible that a "550" might be in the works, but I guess for this first pass they decided that the Phase/Delay module would generate more interest than noise/RM/S&H.

Ah, I see... I looked at some of the original module brochures, etc.

I forgot the biggest cabinet was just for five modules, too.

We're missing the 150, voice module, sequencer and two mixer/processors?

Yeah, I can see the five released (so far) as the most important.

Thanks for your comparisons, as well.
Zodanga
I agree, I can see the logic in what they chose for the first five modules. From what I can see (and I'm no expert on the 100M, never stood in the presence of one), the modules we haven't seen (yet?) would be the:

110 Voice (probably unlikely?)
150 Ring-Noise-SH-LFO
131 Output Mixer
132 Dual CV Mixers & CV Processor
160 Computer Interface (unnecessary?)
173 Multiples/ quad switch
174 Parametric EQ
182 Analog Sequencer

Personally, I'd love to see the mixers. The quad switch was interesting in that each switch had a second, inverted input it looks like. There are product numbers floating around for a few other modules but some of those seemed to be non-production prototypes. I hear tell the 100M sequencer was useful, and then I think a third party module for another kind of sequencer was floating around and was the inspiration for the Intellijel Metropolis (RYK M-185).
Bath House
Zodanga wrote:
In the original System-100M 'basic layout,' the noise was provided by the 150 module, which also had a Ring Modulator, Sample & Hold, and LFO. It's possible that a "550" might be in the works, but I guess for this first pass they decided that the Phase/Delay module would generate more interest than noise/RM/S&H.


That's my favorite module in the 100m - I have two of them!



I just love everything about it - it's super thoughtful, has a ton of functionality in one place, I even love the legending and layout. I'm a huge fan of the RM sound, and everywhere you look there's an extra feature or output.
acidbob
That case looks really nice, what brand is that.

What would a complete Roland system cost?
jicamasalad
coyoteous wrote:
This is my first time to see the modules in the Roland case (thanks poster!).

4 hp leftover... 2 on each side in these pictures?


Yes, just 4HP left with all 5 modules in Roland's own case. I'm a Virgo, so I can't stand having the 4HP all on one side, which might allow some simple utility module, so I have the 2HP blanks on either side. The case is quite compact and portable (I'm used to a Pittsburgh Move 208), though I have the say the latches for the lid seem a bit on the fragile side - might not want to use this case alone for gigging.

I'm noticing one or two other possible anomalies with the system, but it could be just "getting used to it"; more on these once I've had a chance to explore.
kao:be.
edit: never mind
dubnspace
jicamasalad wrote:
coyoteous wrote:
This is my first time to see the modules in the Roland case (thanks poster!).

4 hp leftover... 2 on each side in these pictures?


Yes, just 4HP left with all 5 modules in Roland's own case. I'm a Virgo, so I can't stand having the 4HP all on one side, which might allow some simple utility module, so I have the 2HP blanks on either side. The case is quite compact and portable (I'm used to a Pittsburgh Move 208), though I have the say the latches for the lid seem a bit on the fragile side - might not want to use this case alone for gigging.

I'm noticing one or two other possible anomalies with the system, but it could be just "getting used to it"; more on these once I've had a chance to explore.


put a disting in that extra 4hp.
jicamasalad
dubnspace wrote:


put a disting in that extra 4hp.


you are so right!
(except then it wouldn't be an all-analog rack - Virgo/OCD on display)

arrrggghh - eurocrack snares me again!
ignatius
huge pic is huge. please resize image. forum doesn't auto resize and some browsers don't either.
dubnspace
jicamasalad wrote:
dubnspace wrote:


put a disting in that extra 4hp.


you are so right!
(except then it wouldn't be an all-analog rack - Virgo/OCD on display)

arrrggghh - eurocrack snares me again!


at least it's black.
coyoteous
Zodanga wrote:
I agree, I can see the logic in what they chose for the first five modules. From what I can see (and I'm no expert on the 100M, never stood in the presence of one), the modules we haven't seen (yet?) would be the:

110 Voice (probably unlikely?)
150 Ring-Noise-SH-LFO
131 Output Mixer
132 Dual CV Mixers & CV Processor
160 Computer Interface (unnecessary?)
173 Multiples/ quad switch
174 Parametric EQ
182 Analog Sequencer

Personally, I'd love to see the mixers. The quad switch was interesting in that each switch had a second, inverted input it looks like. There are product numbers floating around for a few other modules but some of those seemed to be non-production prototypes. I hear tell the 100M sequencer was useful, and then I think a third party module for another kind of sequencer was floating around and was the inspiration for the Intellijel Metropolis (RYK M-185).

More good info, thanks!
coyoteous
jicamasalad wrote:
coyoteous wrote:
This is my first time to see the modules in the Roland case (thanks poster!).
4 hp leftover... 2 on each side in these pictures?

Yes, just 4HP left with all 5 modules in Roland's own case. I'm a Virgo, so I can't stand having the 4HP all on one side, which might allow some simple utility module, so I have the 2HP blanks on either side. The case is quite compact and portable (I'm used to a Pittsburgh Move 208), though I have the say the latches for the lid seem a bit on the fragile side - might not want to use this case alone for gigging.

I'm noticing one or two other possible anomalies with the system, but it could be just "getting used to it"; more on these once I've had a chance to explore.

Good to know... in catching up with this, I wonder why Roland didn't throw in a little logo panel (or two for you), but I guess the case is for the 1m and effects, too... which can take up the whole thing.

I have a fever for all five with the case, though... have to wait and see if other NAMM offerings replace it or I just can retreat altogether back to 5U MOTM land.

Lastly, still a little hung up that you can't tuna fish, I mean tune a fifth.
coyoteous
dubnspace wrote:
jicamasalad wrote:
dubnspace wrote:

put a disting in that extra 4hp.

you are so right!
(except then it wouldn't be an all-analog rack - Virgo/OCD on display)
arrrggghh - eurocrack snares me again!

at least it's black.

But with white jacks?
h4ndcrafted
Been patching out the delay via a filter on the 572 and multing the dry sig.

Youre kind of stuck with a very dark delay though, you have to filter out a lot f Osc pitch. I wouldn't get this module for just the delay, my misunderstanding in the first place.
But for short chorus and flange stuff it fun.

Loving the phase module really beefs up a bass.

Not really getting the gate delay as the manual, well isn't one, more of a setup quick guide.
Is it just to delay a control signal , Kind of a dynamic env for CV ?

Nice module just a pita to have to setup a send type of arrangement just to get rid of Osc high pitch. This can lead to cool stuff so far through the korgasmatron. I guess the design is what it is.

Just added a new sound clip to show what you will be rolling off.
Roland 572 modulated by Peaks. Dry signal mixed with wet. Wet is via korgasmatron. You hear me manually sweep off the osc noise from the 572.

Osc pitch is quite high so be careful if your on headphones!

[s]http://soundcloud.com/h4ndcrafted/roland-572-filter-test[/s]
Norgatron
h4ndcrafted wrote:

Not really getting the gate delay as the manual, well isn't one, more of a setup quick guide.
Is it just to delay a control signal , Kind of a dynamic env for CV ?


We covered this earlier (on page 7). It's a delay to gate signals (hence the name) also described as a 'pulse shifter'. In the original it was done with some 555 timers so I think the output is always a gate and you can't shift or control envelopes or CVs of any kind - only convert them into an on/off gate.
The threshold control lets you boost the signal. In the 100m manual it says you can take low-level pulses from a tape and use them to "trigger synthesizer functions".
Norgatron
Norgatron wrote:

The threshold control lets you boost the signal. In the 100m manual it says you can take low-level pulses from a tape and use them to "trigger synthesizer functions".


As described by Giorgio Moroder on 'Giorgio by Moroder'.
Norgatron
Zodanga wrote:
I'm reading the 'Parameter Sheet' for the '572 Phase/Delay module. There are two statements regarding the LFO section that have me a little puzzled.

First, it says, "The LFO of the 572 module is designed so that the output voltage decreases as the frequency rises, so that it can be used to modulate the phase shifter or delay."

So I'm reading that as meaning: as the rate is increased via the knob, the amplitude of the output waveforms decreases. Why is that desirable? Especially considering the 'Phase' and 'Delay' sections have their own attenuators for their respective modulation inputs.

Second, under LFO Frequency, it says, "If nothing is connected to the "MOD - EXT CV" jack of the PHASE or DELAY, the LFO changes at the rate specified by FREQUENCY." Presumably "FREQUENCY" refers to the unlabeled knob in the LFO section.

But I read that as meaning the rate of the LFO is controlled by its knob unless a CV is patched into the MOD - EXT CV jacks of the above sections. That seems very odd and circular. I wonder if some words are missing there... maybe it should read: "If nothing is connected to the "MOD - EXT CV" jack of the PHASE or DELAY, the LFO changes the SHIFT FREQ and DELAY TIME of those sections at the rate specified by the LFO FREQUENCY." ?


I too do not understand the reason for the LFO decreasing amplitude with increasing frequency. Or why that is desirable. I had always assumed that the output amplitude of all oscillators in modulars (across the available range) was unvaried with respect to frequency. Otherwise, if the MOD knobs on the delay and shift have to be changed to compensate for the change in amplitude with frequency you can't control that properly. I must be missing something here.


The second thing, about the frequency, just seems garbled, as you said. I can intuit that the rate of the LFO is always set by that knob, no matter how anything is connected. I can also see that the rate of the delay and shift mods are set from that LFO knob and the amount of mod is set by the respective knobs on those sections.
Presumably if you connect the LFO out to the EXT CV ins you get the same result. Also you can have them out of phase if you modulate one from the 'inverted' output.
h4ndcrafted
Norgatron wrote:
h4ndcrafted wrote:

Not really getting the gate delay as the manual, well isn't one, more of a setup quick guide.
Is it just to delay a control signal , Kind of a dynamic env for CV ?


We covered this earlier (on page 7). It's a delay to gate signals (hence the name) also described as a 'pulse shifter'. In the original it was done with some 555 timers so I think the output is always a gate and you can't shift or control envelopes or CVs of any kind - only convert them into an on/off gate.
The threshold control lets you boost the signal. In the 100m manual it says you can take low-level pulses from a tape and use them to "trigger synthesizer functions".


Thanks I did read what you had written before, just understood it wrong.
In terms of it being able to have a threshold , could it be used at fast settings to level a signal for a module that won't respond ?
I.e my micromac won't respond to metropolis ? Tried with attenvert with no joy before.

Just went over the video again with headphones, whole different experience when you can catch every word !
Can't wait to flange a sequence !
Zodanga
The primary use of a Gate Delay is to offset the on/off timing of gate signals. In the Roland modules, "Delay Time" delays the gate's rising edge, and "Gate Time" controls the falling edge (as a constant).

For instance, if you want to fire two different envelope generators on each key press, but you don't want their attack/release phases to start at the same time (gate high/gate low). With a module like this you can align those contours in much more complex ways. You're not changing the CVs directly, you're controlling the Gate that controls the timing of other modules.

Roland also envisioned, with the original module at least, that this module could be used to recondition timing pulses that have somehow become 'corrupted,' as happens when recording and playing back with analog tape. I would imagine it would still be useful if you're trying to synchronize pulses between two modules that don't easily talk to each other because the original pulse is too narrow, in the wrong voltage range, etc. The "Threshold" control is a comparator that basically keeps the output gate 'low' until the incoming voltage crosses a threshold set by the control, at which point the output goes high. ('Output' here is the output into the 'Delay' stage I believe.) So if you're dealing with a gate that has a rising edge that is slow or dirty, you can recondition the pulses.

The '500 modules' documentation is pretty light, but system-100M had one of the greatest manuals ever -- a four volume set of books called "The Synthesizer." It is discussed here: https://muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=94362&sid=970af21221ecd4 a3d6092cbedf006ae1 I can't say enough about these books, they're a well illustrated, practical guide to sound, analog synthesis, and multitrack recording (circa 1980's of course). Since the System-500 modules are so similar to their forebears, this set of books is particularly relevant again.

If you can dig up a copy of that, check out pages 71 & 72 in 'Practical Synthesis Volume One' where these two different uses of the Gate Delay are discussed.
Bath House
Yeah, "The Synthesizer" is really indispensable. I'm lucky enough to have a nice, clean physical copy of all four volumes + the slipcase for them and they sit right next to my 100m, MC-4, and CSQ-600. Roland of that era is my favorite thing on earth.

I'm taking delivery on the new System 500 envelope today. I'l be making a "shootout" video with it and the original 100m envelope just to look at how they compare to each other - very curious!
anderson303
The VCF and VCO sound more Roland than all my old Roland gear if that makes any sense. I didn't think it could be done with modern components, but it's flawless.
Bath House
Hi all - got my envelope and am putting it through its paces. I'm finding that the LFO has a surprisingly slow max rate - can anyone confirm that theirs only goes this fast?

[/video]
jicamasalad
Bath House wrote:
Hi all - got my envelope and am putting it through its paces. I'm finding that the LFO has a surprisingly slow max rate - can anyone confirm that theirs only goes this fast?



Will check mine and confirm this evening.

Meanwhile can you confirm something for us:

My impression is that the envelope times are not what I would expect based on my experience with a Sys 100m. On that synth I was able to get very nice slow attacks and releases out of the envelope, but so far on the Sys 500, the times feel "fast" to me - I'm not able to get a dreamy slow attack and release like I remember from the Sys 100m. If you have a chance could you do a little comparison between the two modules with regard to envelope times and let us know what you find?

I'm guessing you'll need to switch to "slow" values on the 540 to get times as long as the 140, but please let us know what you find; I haven't had a System 100m in many years, so perhaps my memory fails me...

Thanks!
Bath House
I'm finding the same thing. Even on the "slow" setting, the new module cannot go nearly as slow as the 140. I made a simple patch with the filter so that you could hear the envelope better.



Over the next few days I'm going to be creating a full video review of this module that does some comparisons. I know it's not meant to be a clone of the 140 per se.
jicamasalad
Bath House wrote:
Hi all - got my envelope and am putting it through its paces. I'm finding that the LFO has a surprisingly slow max rate - can anyone confirm that theirs only goes this fast?


So the highest speed I can get from the 540 LFO is about 8cps using the front panel control on the "high" setting; however, it goes MUCH higher when you apply a CV to the FREQ.

Sad to hear that your impressions about the envelope times are the same as mine - it's not easy to mod surface mount PCBs to change values! Thanks for the video comparison.

This is where the traditional Roland complete lack of specs becomes frustrating; they NEVER give good specs such as cycle times or P to P voltages or increments of fine tuning - things that are very useful for synthesists - just smeary general information.

Perhaps Malekko could provide us with more detailed specs for these new modules?
Bath House
Any comments I make about these are meant to be constructive - as a scene bro from the community, I consider everyone brothers in arms doing the Lord's work out in modular land. But I definitely have some observations and criticisms about this module that I'll be working into my video review.

I think the slider caps are way way way way "off" for this module. They're wobbly and don't feel well-mated to the sliders. It makes it really hard to dial in precision settings like when trying to fine-tune a snappy percussive envelope - I find myself constantly over or undercorrecting, as the slider cap wobbles clumsily under my finger. I think that something like the Buchla easel-style slider caps would be way better for this application - just little slim rubbery nubs.

I love that it loops and having the individual outputs for each LFO shape.

I'm having trouble understanding the different mode switches for some reason.
joem
A bit of a sidetrack (sorry), but looking at the pic of the 150 a page or two ago, I'm wondering what does noise & LFO into a ring mod do? (It looks like that's how it's normalled.) Thinking about it, I'm not really sure if that would sound like anything except noise fading in and out in time with the LFO- Is that the intent of that normalization?
Zodanga
I can't imagine that feeding noise and an LFO into a Ring Mod would be too useful. I can see normalling in the LFO... more often than not low frequency sines are used with RMs. But noise? Yeah that strikes me as odd.

@Bath House, what mode switches do you mean?
Bath House
Y'know, I can't quite remember the last time I used that RM circuit with nothing patched into it. I'll check it out tonight. The LFO beneath it does go up almost to audio rate so maybe you can do something with it? I always send signals in.

RE: the mode switches, I'm talking about the keyboard and delay trig ones. 1, 2, off?
Bath House


Something else that I didn't realize until using the module last night is that, contrary to the way the panel appears to be laid out, those are NOT inputs to CV the different stages of the envelope! It makes sense once you know, but I really thought one of the cool new features was inputs to the different stages. Oops!
Zodanga
Yeah when I first saw these modules, I thought some of the inputs were different from what they are, too. There's so much crammed onto these tiny panels that the legends aren't clear.

I ordered three of the 500 modules but don't have them yet... they were supposed to arrive Monday but the carrier is saying, "Oops, we goofed! Maybe tomorrow."

But here's my understanding of those switches:

You have two separate ADSRs on there, each with it's own Gate In ("EXT"). And you have an LFO that can restart its phase when it gets a gate. So I 'think' that "KYBD TRIG" lets you select which of the two incoming ADSR gates (and maybe the manual buttons?) will also restart the phase of the LFO.

And you can delay the start of the LFO phase by the amount of the 'Delay' knob, but I THINK that you can independently pick which of the two ADSR gates controls that? As I'm typing this I'm actually getting less sure of it... how would those two interact? I'm not sure.
Bath House
Good thing there's no manual! grin

I'll do more tests tonight to see if I can suss it out. Since my 100m is already 5 VCO/VCF/VCA, I'm trying to figure out which of the 500-series modules to grab next. I'm most curious about the VCO and VCF's, and not too concerned about the phase shifter/etc. since I have the original module.
jicamasalad
Bath House wrote:
Good thing there's no manual! grin


Well, yes, I would agree it's hardly a manual, but there is this:

http://cdn.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/SYS-540_parameter_guide_e01.pdf

which describes the intended function of the switches. They don't ship with printed versions of these sheets - you have to go to the website.

And I agree with you about the fader caps - mine were not fully seated on the fader pots, but I was able to scrunch them down and the wobble is now all from the fader itself.
h4ndcrafted
Zodanga wrote:
The primary use of a Gate Delay is to offset the on/off timing of gate signals. In the Roland modules, "Delay Time" delays the gate's rising edge, and "Gate Time" controls the falling edge (as a constant).

For instance, if you want to fire two different envelope generators on each key press, but you don't want their attack/release phases to start at the same time (gate high/gate low). With a module like this you can align those contours in much more complex ways. You're not changing the CVs directly, you're controlling the Gate that controls the timing of other modules.

Roland also envisioned, with the original module at least, that this module could be used to recondition timing pulses that have somehow become 'corrupted,' as happens when recording and playing back with analog tape. I would imagine it would still be useful if you're trying to synchronize pulses between two modules that don't easily talk to each other because the original pulse is too narrow, in the wrong voltage range, etc. The "Threshold" control is a comparator that basically keeps the output gate 'low' until the incoming voltage crosses a threshold set by the control, at which point the output goes high. ('Output' here is the output into the 'Delay' stage I believe.) So if you're dealing with a gate that has a rising edge that is slow or dirty, you can recondition the pulses.

The '500 modules' documentation is pretty light, but system-100M had one of the greatest manuals ever -- a four volume set of books called "The Synthesizer." It is discussed here: https://muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=94362&sid=970af21221ecd4 a3d6092cbedf006ae1 I can't say enough about these books, they're a well illustrated, practical guide to sound, analog synthesis, and multitrack recording (circa 1980's of course). Since the System-500 modules are so similar to their forebears, this set of books is particularly relevant again.

If you can dig up a copy of that, check out pages 71 & 72 in 'Practical Synthesis Volume One' where these two different uses of the Gate Delay are discussed.


Thanks for all the info, those books sound like gold. I did actually get it to work with Metrop once by just going through another module, maybe even a passive mult ? I don't know why that fixed it though ?
anderson303
Is the 572 as noisy for everyone else as it is for me? I love the phaser and maybe I'm just used to digital Phasers, but it sounds really noisy when my mix is wet. Even without anything plugged in it gets really noisy.

This is normal right, nothing wrong with my module?

Regardless, it sounds incredible.

(thanks for feedback)
h4ndcrafted
anderson303 wrote:
Is the 572 as noisy for everyone else as it is for me? I love the phaser and maybe I'm just used to digital Phasers, but it sounds really noisy when my mix is wet. Even without anything plugged in it gets really noisy.

This is normal right, nothing wrong with my module?

Regardless, it sounds incredible.

(thanks for feedback)


Mine isn't noisey ? Only the Osc noise on the delay which you have to filter out. Otherwise it seems fine.
anderson303
[video]
h4ndcrafted wrote:
Mine isn't noisey ? Only the Osc noise on the delay which you have to filter out. Otherwise it seems fine.


So it doesn't sound like this:

h4ndcrafted
anderson303 wrote:
[video]
h4ndcrafted wrote:
Mine isn't noisey ? Only the Osc noise on the delay which you have to filter out. Otherwise it seems fine.


So it doesn't sound like this:



No it doesn't sound like that at all.

It sounds like this


Sorry I can't be anymore help ? Maybe a faulty unit ?
Kummer
@anderson303

Getting a new module after months of anticipation, only to find out that you need to send it back for an exchange, or to have it fixed is the worst. Could it be a power supply issue?

Mine is coming tomorrow from Control and I hope it doesn't have the same issue. Where did you purchase yours?
ignatius
anderson303 wrote:
[video]
h4ndcrafted wrote:
Mine isn't noisey ? Only the Osc noise on the delay which you have to filter out. Otherwise it seems fine.


So it doesn't sound like this:



what's patched into the "ext" CV input?
anderson303
ignatius wrote:

what's patched into the "ext" CV input?


An LFO. But it doesn't matter, there is no difference in the noise if it's plugged in or not.

I don't know about a power issue in the module but nothing is wrong with the case
ignatius
anderson303 wrote:
ignatius wrote:

what's patched into the "ext" CV input?


An LFO. But it doesn't matter, there is no difference in the noise if it's plugged in or not.

I don't know about a power issue in the module but nothing is wrong with the case


it sounds weird for sure. if you have audiorate patched into the ext input for modulation it's just modulating the phaser so fast that it becomes audible (or bleeds through or whatever) which is why i asked.

but it sounds like a noise source patched into the ext cv input! you should contact the store you got it from.

these modules go through 2 quality control departments so it's possible something got wonked in shipping or something. crazy.
anderson303
No problem sending it back then. I'm Roland's biggest fan again, these modules are hands down my favorites out there...

I was blocked from Roland's facebook page for complaining about Aria when they came out and the lack of new analog. I take it all back!
Tom_1970
Nice to see and hear your experiences.

I am still awaiting my System-500.
Still no clue when they will arrive on continental Europe, but reading this topic is somehow comforting. wink
Tom_1970
A demo of the whole Aira modular set.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4HdGd6NjdA
wired
Tom_1970 wrote:
Nice to see and hear your experiences.

I am still awaiting my System-500.
Still no clue when they will arrive on continental Europe, but reading this topic is somehow comforting. wink


I hear February...
JuanSOLO
Tom_1970 wrote:
A demo of the whole Aira modular set.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4HdGd6NjdA


That System 500 sounds real nice!
Tom_1970
Quote:
I hear February...

Hm...that's about three weeks.....
I hope there will be more info on delivery soon.


Quote:
That System 500 sounds real nice!

Can't wait to get my hands on it...but I have to I'm afraid. wink
To keep me busy I will experiment with the Aira Modular Customizer and my Demora.
ignatius
anderson303 wrote:
No problem sending it back then. I'm Roland's biggest fan again, these modules are hands down my favorites out there...

I was blocked from Roland's facebook page for complaining about Aria when they came out and the lack of new analog. I take it all back!


so any update? any luck getting this sorted out? i was just patching the phaser in the muffshop and really digging it and i thought of this thread.
anderson303
ignatius wrote:


so any update? any luck getting this sorted out? i was just patching the phaser in the muffshop and really digging it and i thought of this thread.



I actually didn't have to send it back. The noise was coming from the Make Noise powerboard. I just needed to put it in a different case.

Was kind of disappointing that they are in these beautiful Elite cases. Would have been better off using a better powerboard.
anderson303
Now it's doing it in the second case... I don't know what's going on.
bkbirge
Perhaps it's another module it doesn't play nice with? Try starting with that one only and add the others one at a time, testing after each new one is added.
anderson303
I tried that. It's the weirdest thing, it worked in the cell 90 for 24 hours.

I pulled all the other modules out the next day the noise was back and there was no change.
jicamasalad
anderson303 wrote:
I tried that. It's the weirdest thing, it worked in the cell 90 for 24 hours.

I pulled all the other modules out the next day the noise was back and there was no change.


Sorry to hear about your noise issues! I'm having some odd behavior also: I had a patch up, VCO-VCF-VCA modulated by envelopes triggered by MI Peaks, left the patch up and running for an hour or so to go do other things, came back and the patch was dead, meaning no sound coming out - no cables or values changed, should have just been humming away on the same drone but the VCA was now passing no signal; traced the patch back and could find no reason for it.

Also, some more thoughts about the envelope times. As has been demonstrated, they are noticeably shorter than the System 100m modules which served as the inspiration for the Sys 500; I was able to find times for the envelopes on the Jupiter 8 - not the same architecture I know, but from a similar vintage, and those had Attack times from 1ms to 5S and Release times from 1ms to 10S; Similarly, the System 100 had Attack times from .4ms to 3S, and Release times from .8ms to 6S. Both these synths are capable of seemingly much longer envelopes than the System 500 - I'm curious as to why?

Also, with the ENV in cycle mode, the Attack and Decay sliders only seem to function within about the lower third of the throw of the pot - once I try to set up long slow cycle LFOs using cycle mode the ENV just quits and outputs nothing - pushing the sliders back down to their lowest values seems to "reset" the cycle, hence there seems to be an upper limit to the ENV in cycle mode.

Would love it if Malekko could chime in with some thoughts on these observations, or in an ideal world specs including Envelope times for the 540.

Maybe this forum is not the place for these questions (apologies, if so), but it seemed potentially useful info for prospective customers.
Norgatron
After much dithering and chin-rubbing I've ordered my modules. All the System 500. This is my first Eurorack and first modular so a bit of a plunge. Mr. Green

I was mostly spending time trying to decide what case and then when I decided on the case what other modules.

I concluded that the Roland case wasn't value for money, for me, so I went instead for the Moog Mother 32 104 HP. It's a bit odd to have a Roland system in a Moog case, but whatever. It seems like a solid bit of box, gives me more room, I don't need to carry it around and I can always change it later.

In the extra 24 HP:

Tiptop Audio uZeus - For power
Mutable instruments CVpal - For interface including duophonic, or clocks or whatever.
Make Noise Mult - For an extra 4HP of cheap but useful
Make Noise Function - For all that that can do (especially slew) for a good price.
Elby Designs ED115 - SH-Noise - For noise (the only thing really missing in the System 500 IMO) and S/H (in case I'm already using the Function)

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/248989

I'm in the UK so the Roland and most other stuff from Reddog. Elby thing coming direct from Aus. CVpal from Thonk.
And I've just realised I need a power supply d'oh!

Just got to wait for everything to be in stock and turn up!
hyper
dubnspace
I ordered a full set too.. Noisebug is selling them as a complete system in the case at a bundled price..
Heavy Metal Kid
dubnspace wrote:
I ordered a full set too.. Noisebug is selling them as a complete system in the case at a bundled price..


Out of curiosity, what's the bundle price? Didn't see it at their site.
dubnspace
Heavy Metal Kid wrote:
dubnspace wrote:
I ordered a full set too.. Noisebug is selling them as a complete system in the case at a bundled price..


Out of curiosity, what's the bundle price? Didn't see it at their site.


they're selling them bundled on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roland-Malekko-Eurorack-Modular-System-500-Noi sebug-Mogami-Patch-Cables-8-/291661726464?hash=item43e864c300:g:HuwAAO Sw-zxWmrph
Norgatron
Norgatron wrote:
After much dithering and chin-rubbing I've ordered my modules. All the System 500. This is my first Eurorack and first modular so a bit of a plunge. Mr. Green

I was mostly spending time trying to decide what case and then when I decided on the case what other modules.

I concluded that the Roland case wasn't value for money, for me, so I went instead for the Moog Mother 32 104 HP. It's a bit odd to have a Roland system in a Moog case, but whatever. It seems like a solid bit of box, gives me more room, I don't need to carry it around and I can always change it later.


hyper


No, go back start again.

The Moog case can only handle modules up to 1.9" depth. For some reason I thought I'd checked that the 58mm deep System 500 modules could fit, but they can't

58mm = ~2.3 Inches.

d'oh!
_seph
Norgatron wrote:
Norgatron wrote:
After much dithering and chin-rubbing I've ordered my modules. All the System 500. This is my first Eurorack and first modular so a bit of a plunge. Mr. Green

I was mostly spending time trying to decide what case and then when I decided on the case what other modules.

I concluded that the Roland case wasn't value for money, for me, so I went instead for the Moog Mother 32 104 HP. It's a bit odd to have a Roland system in a Moog case, but whatever. It seems like a solid bit of box, gives me more room, I don't need to carry it around and I can always change it later.


hyper


No, go back start again.

The Moog case can only handle modules up to 1.9" depth. For some reason I thought I'd checked that the 58mm deep System 500 modules could fit, but they can't

58mm = ~2.3 Inches.

d'oh!


which also spoils my plan of using the new Make Noise Skiff which is 65mm deep but only 51mm over the bussboard, which covers 2/3's of the case.
daveholiday
There has been lots of talk about the phaser which seems pretty tasty, but I would love to hear some feedback about the filter. I love the vintage Roland filter sound, but I wonder how the new one stacks up to the old ones in terms of "Rolandness"!
Lardossa
Same here, I would like to know more regarding the filter !
Bath House
So I've decided I really can't stand the slider caps on the envelopes, and would love to replace them with nubs like on the music easel or that one rev of the Arp Odyssey.



Anyone know where you can buy something like this that would fit? Is there a standard size or something?
anderson303
daveholiday wrote:
There has been lots of talk about the phaser which seems pretty tasty, but I would love to hear some feedback about the filter. I love the vintage Roland filter sound, but I wonder how the new one stacks up to the old ones in terms of "Rolandness"!


IMO the signature "Roland" sound is coming from the VCO. Nothing else sounds like it. I even tried to get real roland VCFs and VCOs in my system in the past (Doepfer & AMSynths) but for some reason it just didn't sound right.

The filter works perfectly with the Roland VCO, but I don't hear that Roland sound when I use it with anything else.
Malekko
Hey,
I'm knee deep in NAMM scramble. Regarding envelope times. The original 100m used a 3.3uf timing cap.
To make the fast and slow speeds i took a 560n (for fast timing) for the slow setting i added in a 2.2uf cap with that 560n coming out just shy of 3uf...If you want slower speeds adding an 0603 1uf cap on top of C3 and C7 will give you slightly slower than 100m specifications.
_seph


great little vid on the inspiration of the 500-series
Tom_1970
Roland also gonna sell it as a complete set.

http://www.rolandus.com/products/system-500_complete_set/
Kummer
Yeah that's a great video.

I hope there are more modules to come in the future from this partnership!
dubnspace
Tom_1970 wrote:
Roland also gonna sell it as a complete set.

http://www.rolandus.com/products/system-500_complete_set/


wonder what price this will be set at.
ignatius
dubnspace wrote:
Tom_1970 wrote:
Roland also gonna sell it as a complete set.

http://www.rolandus.com/products/system-500_complete_set/


wonder what price this will be set at.


i think it's $1999
joem
Malekko wrote:
Hey,
I'm knee deep in NAMM scramble. Regarding envelope times. The original 100m used a 3.3uf timing cap.
To make the fast and slow speeds i took a 560n (for fast timing) for the slow setting i added in a 2.2uf cap with that 560n coming out just shy of 3uf...If you want slower speeds adding an 0603 1uf cap on top of C3 and C7 will give you slightly slower than 100m specifications.


I know Malekko and Josh specifically have been active on muffwiggler for a while, well before the Roland thing, but still it's nice to think that here we have the guy who designed these Roland products explaining how to mod them, here on muffwiggler. Love it!
ignatius
joem wrote:
Malekko wrote:
Hey,
I'm knee deep in NAMM scramble. Regarding envelope times. The original 100m used a 3.3uf timing cap.
To make the fast and slow speeds i took a 560n (for fast timing) for the slow setting i added in a 2.2uf cap with that 560n coming out just shy of 3uf...If you want slower speeds adding an 0603 1uf cap on top of C3 and C7 will give you slightly slower than 100m specifications.


I know Malekko and Josh specifically have been active on muffwiggler for a while, well before the Roland thing, but still it's nice to think that here we have the guy who designed these Roland products explaining how to mod them, here on muffwiggler. Love it!


that kind of stuff is like a warm hug isn't it!

long live Muff's!
303ish
Lardossa wrote:
Same here, I would like to know more regarding the filter !


Im curious to listen some 500 acid too It's peanut butter jelly time!

This demo shows a little of the sound im looking from them:

303ish
oh I just noted there are some Roland official demos now

wellurban
anderson303 wrote:
IMO the signature "Roland" sound is coming from the VCO. Nothing else sounds like it. I even tried to get real roland VCFs and VCOs in my system in the past (Doepfer & AMSynths) but for some reason it just didn't sound right.


This may have been answered before, but do you know whether they're saw-core or tri-core? I already have a fairly extensive selection of analogue VCOs, but they're all tri-core, so if these are saw-core that might make a bit of difference.
anderson303
wellurban wrote:
This may have been answered before, but do you know whether they're saw-core or tri-core? I already have a fairly extensive selection of analogue VCOs, but they're all tri-core, so if these are saw-core that might make a bit of difference.


Not sure, but it's got so much character, I really don't think it matters.. Honestly, I loved the raw pulse and triangle so much I was a little let down when I started filtering it out. Don't get me wrong, it's a great filter but what's at the core of this system I believe is the dual VCO. All three combined, VCO, VCF and phaser/delay is Roland bliss.

I've found a lot of modern VCOs to sound identical, like the Rubicon and Richter Oscillator for example, you'd be hard pressed to find a difference. Or the DPO which isn't screaming a personality if you know what I mean... but there are some real outliers like Cwejman, ADDAC701 and now this System 500 VCO which is my favorite of the three.
pinhole_sunrise
Bath House wrote:
So I've decided I really can't stand the slider caps on the envelopes, and would love to replace them with nubs like on the music easel or that one rev of the Arp Odyssey.



Anyone know where you can buy something like this that would fit? Is there a standard size or something?


Small Bear Electronics sell colored caps. I've used them on my Atlantis.

http://smallbear-electronics.mybigcommerce.com/colored-caps/
jicamasalad
Malekko wrote:
Hey,
I'm knee deep in NAMM scramble. Regarding envelope times. The original 100m used a 3.3uf timing cap.
To make the fast and slow speeds i took a 560n (for fast timing) for the slow setting i added in a 2.2uf cap with that 560n coming out just shy of 3uf...If you want slower speeds adding an 0603 1uf cap on top of C3 and C7 will give you slightly slower than 100m specifications.


Very, very helpful, thank you. Really appreciate your work in bringing these modules to market!

Respect!
jcn7
pinhole_sunrise wrote:
Bath House wrote:
So I've decided I really can't stand the slider caps on the envelopes, and would love to replace them with nubs like on the music easel or that one rev of the Arp Odyssey.



Anyone know where you can buy something like this that would fit? Is there a standard size or something?


Small Bear Electronics sell colored caps. I've used them on my Atlantis.

http://smallbear-electronics.mybigcommerce.com/colored-caps/


I also purchased rubber caps from small bear electronics for my Atlantis as seen here:




Product at small bear:
http://smallbear-electronics.mybigcommerce.com/colored-caps/
Bath House
pinhole_sunrise wrote:
Bath House wrote:
So I've decided I really can't stand the slider caps on the envelopes, and would love to replace them with nubs like on the music easel or that one rev of the Arp Odyssey.



Anyone know where you can buy something like this that would fit? Is there a standard size or something?


Small Bear Electronics sell colored caps. I've used them on my Atlantis.

http://smallbear-electronics.mybigcommerce.com/colored-caps/


Perfect - thanks!
jgshoe
303ish wrote:
Lardossa wrote:
Same here, I would like to know more regarding the filter !


Im curious to listen some 500 acid too It's peanut butter jelly time!

This demo shows a little of the sound im looking from them:



Ah damn, that video completely sells this for me. Great demo
Bath House
These videos have me concerned. Everything sounds a little too buzzy and overdriven, calibrated for modern tastes at the expense of honoring the original designs. Roland is not fat/huge/distorted/overdriven - that's Moog territory. Roland sings in a really different way. These vids sound like someone trying to make Roland modular be something that it isn't and never was. I'm still going to buy the VCO and VCF pair to try out myself, but I'm afraid that things have been compromised to sound "Badass" like so much other modern stuff.
JuanSOLO
Just got an email from Sweetwater saying my order had been shipped.
They originally said February cool
ignatius
Bath House wrote:
These videos have me concerned. Everything sounds a little too buzzy and overdriven, calibrated for modern tastes at the expense of honoring the original designs. Roland is not fat/huge/distorted/overdriven - that's Moog territory. Roland sings in a really different way. These vids sound like someone trying to make Roland modular be something that it isn't and never was. I'm still going to buy the VCO and VCF pair to try out myself, but I'm afraid that things have been compromised to sound "Badass" like so much other modern stuff.


they sound very roland to my ears. we have a 100m and a sh101 in the store and the system 500 fits right in there. first time i patched them first thought was "these sound roland as fuck" if that makes sense. that being said there are ways to drive signals within a modular system.

nothing has been "compromised". if you could go to NAMM and visit the malekko booth you could ask josh all the specific questions you want. as is pretty obvious by his posts in this thread not stone left unturned to get these modules to be faithful to the roland sound. just my 2 cents though.

not sure if you saw the other videos posted.. just in case.



coyoteous
Does fuck sound Roland?
chamomileshark
It also all sounded very Roland to me, the filter, the PWM on the pulso (still one of my favourite sounds). I have my original Roland SH2 from 81 and an SH101 and everything in the vids, the 700, 100M and 500 felt like coming home.
ignatius
coyoteous wrote:
Does fuck sound Roland?


you know it does. when i do it.
coyoteous
lol
xclark
chamomileshark wrote:
It also all sounded very Roland to me, the filter, the PWM on the pulso (still one of my favourite sounds). I have my original Roland SH2 from 81 and an SH101 and everything in the vids, the 700, 100M and 500 felt like coming home.


I agree. I bought the System 500 VCO & VCF and can wholeheartedly agree that they capture the old Roland mojo, at least to my ears.
risome
Waiting on back order here in Australia on the case and all the modules Miley Cyrus
Norgatron
_seph wrote:
Norgatron wrote:
Norgatron wrote:
After much dithering and chin-rubbing I've ordered my modules. All the System 500. This is my first Eurorack and first modular so a bit of a plunge. Mr. Green

I was mostly spending time trying to decide what case and then when I decided on the case what other modules.

I concluded that the Roland case wasn't value for money, for me, so I went instead for the Moog Mother 32 104 HP. It's a bit odd to have a Roland system in a Moog case, but whatever. It seems like a solid bit of box, gives me more room, I don't need to carry it around and I can always change it later.


hyper

No, go back start again.

The Moog case can only handle modules up to 1.9" depth. For some reason I thought I'd checked that the 58mm deep System 500 modules could fit, but they can't

58mm = ~2.3 Inches.

d'oh!


which also spoils my plan of using the new Make Noise Skiff which is 65mm deep but only 51mm over the bussboard, which covers 2/3's of the case.


I'm now going for the Make Noise skiff, but the unpowered version. That's 65mm all the way along thumbs up
As my plan was to use a Zeus anyway that's no hardship for me. I've also decided to go with the 4ms row-power 30 instead anyway.

Also, the Elby S/H and noise won't fit so I might go for the Synthrotek equivalent or just pop it in my bigger DIY rack (whenever I get that done) and use the spare 4hp for something else.
Norgatron
I can see what Bath House is worried about in some of the demos. They lack a bit of refinement and that's partly what you want to hear from these modules.
As is made clear in the "Roland SYSTEM-500 analog modular synths" video these are supposed to be Roland sounding and rock-solid 'musical' not rough and fizzy and wild. Although you can drive them wild, as in the Switched On demo.

I sort of hate demos because they never seem to play the sounds I want to hear and I just want to get my hands on it. twisted
spazlad
Would this be easy to get to play with my Moogerfoogers?

Been wanting to get into some modular for a while. A Roland 500 system could be a reletively painless way in I think. Maybe add some more espteric modules later.

I have a whole bunch of Moogerfoogers. Does the 500 voltage match the moog? If not are they easy to convert?
JuanSOLO
I thought someone might get a kick out of this.

I've never had any eurorack gear.
Friend let me borrow a Tip Top skiff.
I got the Roland System 500 on pre-order.
Got a notification that they were shipped, and will arrive Friday (yesterday).
Wife is out of town.
Realized I forgot to order patch cables.
Went to Guitar Center, Radio Shack, Local Music store, Lowes, and Home Depot, none of them had any.
Friend in town just got a Werkstat CV breakout, he let me borrow 5 patch cables.
Get home fire everything up and it sounds great.
After a couple hours of wiggling, I see the Elektron OS updates have been released.
Tried updating my A4 and it hung up, like a dummy I restarted it without thinking. Now my A4 is in limbo.
waah

Somedays you got it... d'oh!
Bath House
Thanks for the recommendation for the small bear electronics slider caps. I ordered a set in white to replace the stock slider caps, which I feel are far too wide and wiggly for making precise adjustments. With the shorter throw of the sliders on the 500 module, I definitely find it harder to dial in the exact behavior that I desire with how wiggly the sliders are and how easy it is to overcorrect while trying to adjust the wide, cumbersome slider caps.

I replaced them with these little rubbery caps and I definitely find them to be much more useful. They don't look amazing - the inside of the mold is expecting a round potentiometer, so you end up stretching them over the wide and rectangular slider not unlike a condom. They don't look quite as cool as I had expected when I look at a Music Easel or that one rev of the Arp Odyssey, but they're still pretty great. I recommend the upgrade!


jicamasalad
Here is an excerpt showing some different tonalities from the System 500; slower envelopes, not quite so buzzy and harsh as some of the more EDM-based samples we've heard so far.

I'm enjoying the timbre of the VCO and VCF, but personally find the Delay and Phaser to be too noisy to be practical for my music - that module'll be going up for sale. And the lack of long envelope times has already been discussed, but continues to be felt.

This excerpt is 5 raw tracks, unmixed and unprocessed so you can hear the sound of the synth rather than a "finished piece".

[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/243823481" params="auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_use r=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true" width="100%" height="450" iframe="true" /]
jicamasalad
ignatius wrote:

nothing has been "compromised". if you could go to NAMM and visit the malekko booth you could ask josh all the specific questions you want. as is pretty obvious by his posts in this thread not stone left unturned to get these modules to be faithful to the roland sound. just my 2 cents though.


Thanks for your thoughts on these modules. While I do like the sound of the 512 and 521, and think I can get back to what I used to do on my Sys 100m, the 540 really does not seem to have the same Attack and Release times as the Sys 100m, and therefor I find myself curious about what other things might have been altered.

Since you have both synths on hand, could you compare the envelope times between the 140 and the 540, and let us know what you find? I think it does speak to how "faithful" these new modules are; we have heard terms like "based on", "inspired by" and "recreation of" in the marketing material, but few people have both instruments to do a side-by-side to take those claims to task.

If you have time, please share, and thank you!
ignatius
jicamasalad wrote:
ignatius wrote:

nothing has been "compromised". if you could go to NAMM and visit the malekko booth you could ask josh all the specific questions you want. as is pretty obvious by his posts in this thread not stone left unturned to get these modules to be faithful to the roland sound. just my 2 cents though.


Thanks for your thoughts on these modules. While I do like the sound of the 512 and 521, and think I can get back to what I used to do on my Sys 100m, the 540 really does not seem to have the same Attack and Release times as the Sys 100m, and therefor I find myself curious about what other things might have been altered.

Since you have both synths on hand, could you compare the envelope times between the 140 and the 540, and let us know what you find? I think it does speak to how "faithful" these new modules are; we have heard terms like "based on", "inspired by" and "recreation of" in the marketing material, but few people have both instruments to do a side-by-side to take those claims to task.

If you have time, please share, and thank you!


i can try.

but to be clear when i said nothing is compromised i meant in the creation of something that fits in the history of these instruments with something uniquely Roland in voice.

i've spent far more time with the 500 system than the 100m. regarding envelope times.. where does the 700 fit in?
computer controlled
ignatius wrote:
"these sound roland as fuck"



Yup.
ignatius
also, i'm curious about the envelope time comparison since the the system 500 has a Fast/slow switch and the 100m has longer throw of the faders.
Norgatron
I think we need some more ping-y plink-y sequences from the demos. You get that a lot on 100m demos.

https://youtu.be/4zMKD_BDCyk

In other words. I'm not sure when I'll get mine yet and I really want it now. meh
Bath House
ignatius wrote:
also, i'm curious about the envelope time comparison since the the system 500 has a Fast/slow switch and the 100m has longer throw of the faders.


I did a video about that two pages back - check it out!
Bath House
Norgatron wrote:
I think we need some more ping-y plink-y sequences from the demos. You get that a lot on 100m demos.

[video]https://youtu.be/4zMKD_BDCyk[/video]

In other words. I'm not sure when I'll get mine yet and I really want it now. meh


I can do MC-4 triggering the 500 envelope, but it'll be patched to 100M VCO-VCF chain.
xclark
Here's some random noodling made with Series 500 VCO and VCF. It should be noted that I used an Intellijel Dual ADSR and (starting at 1:15) Modcan Dual Delay in this recording. Sequenced by Metropolis.
It sounds like classic Roland to my ears. nanners
hadj
Anyone know when these are landing in the UK stores?
anderson303
ignatius wrote:
anderson303 wrote:
No problem sending it back then. I'm Roland's biggest fan again, these modules are hands down my favorites out there...

I was blocked from Roland's facebook page for complaining about Aria when they came out and the lack of new analog. I take it all back!


so any update? any luck getting this sorted out? i was just patching the phaser in the muffshop and really digging it and i thought of this thread.


I just thought I'd update... It was a defective unit. There are no compatibility issues with power boards like I had originally posted.

Really stoked to get my replacement, even with the noise I used it in every patch smile
JuanSOLO
After I spent a few hours noodling around with the System 500 by itself, then I plugged it into everything else and made this pattern.
Eventually I'll post more stuff that showcases something with more substance regarding the System 500 modules.
I just had a bit of fun and wanted to share it.
https://vimeo.com/153861013
Norgatron
hadj wrote:
Anyone know when these are landing in the UK stores?


Nope. Red Dog have no info on when they'll get mine in.
tioJim
Norgatron wrote:
hadj wrote:
Anyone know when these are landing in the UK stores?


Nope. Red Dog have no info on when they'll get mine in.


Nor me
hadj
Norgatron wrote:
hadj wrote:
Anyone know when these are landing in the UK stores?


Nope. Red Dog have no info on when they'll get mine in.


I heard a rumour that roland are going to try and shift the full system with case , possibly not selling the modes individually. Which would suck of course. That being said, I'm not exactly an industry insider... In fact I'm not at all. I just got the sense this might be the plan after I chat I had with someone in a store.

I hope I'm wrong though.
Kummer
hadj wrote:
Norgatron wrote:
hadj wrote:
Anyone know when these are landing in the UK stores?


Nope. Red Dog have no info on when they'll get mine in.


I heard a rumour that roland are going to try and shift the full system with case , possibly not selling the modes individually. Which would suck of course. That being said, I'm not exactly an industry insider... In fact I'm not at all. I just got the sense this might be the plan after I chat I had with someone in a store.

I hope I'm wrong though.


No offense, but that makes absolutely NO sense as they just released their modular line.
hadj
None taken, and I agree, makes no sense. Maybe they are holding back individual modules to fill up full systems first, supply some of that demand first and then resume supplying the individual modules?

I don't know but it's weird how all the stores have gone from saying they will have stock early Jan, to now not having any ETA at all. Apparently Roland are keeping it vague.
Norgatron
It's weird/annoying but if they were selling the full case in preference to the individual modules first then why aren't they available now? They aren't any more in stock than the modules so there's no correlation at the moment.

Either they underestimated the demand or maybe they have quality issues. If they are building boards in the US and moving them to Japan for assembly and then shipping them it's not going to be a fast response time.
Kummer
I honestly think the demand is probably what is making these modules hard to find at the moment. It's analog Roland modular, people are excited. I've got phaser/delay and love it and will buy the rest in time.
brandonryan
hadj wrote:
Norgatron wrote:
hadj wrote:
Anyone know when these are landing in the UK stores?


Nope. Red Dog have no info on when they'll get mine in.


I heard a rumour that roland are going to try and shift the full system with case , possibly not selling the modes individually. Which would suck of course. That being said, I'm not exactly an industry insider... In fact I'm not at all. I just got the sense this might be the plan after I chat I had with someone in a store.

I hope I'm wrong though.


Hey there - Brandon from Roland here. I can happily confirm that this is not true. Individual modules will continue to be available along with the "Complete Set". No desire on the part of Roland to push people into complete systems, only to offer them.
303ish
Noob question about the 530: are the 3 mod inputs connected to a signal input each? Or the sum of the mods affect the sum of the signals?

I looked at the manual and videos and seems to be the second one, although I can’t really see the point. Have 3 CV modulated inputs per VCA would be crazy, but I think that would be technically 6 VCAs in the module hihi
JuanSOLO
I put my System 500 up for sale on ebay.
Turns out eurorack is not the direction I want to move into.
They sound incredible.
ignatius
303ish wrote:
Noob question about the 530: are the 3 mod inputs connected to a signal input each? Or the sum of the mods affect the sum of the signals?

I looked at the manual and videos and seems to be the second one, although I can’t really see the point. Have 3 CV modulated inputs per VCA would be crazy, but I think that would be technically 6 VCAs in the module hihi


it is 6 VCAs. 3 to 1 mix. CV control of the 3 inputs per side. so it's a mixer with a summed out.

the filter has 3 inputs per filter as well.
303ish
ignatius wrote:

it is 6 VCAs. 3 to 1 mix. CV control of the 3 inputs per side. so it's a mixer with a summed out.


So... can I use each of three signal inputs with its own modulation? Really? hyper

If so its the best vca in eurorand IMO
ignatius
303ish wrote:
ignatius wrote:

it is 6 VCAs. 3 to 1 mix. CV control of the 3 inputs per side. so it's a mixer with a summed out.


So... can I use each of three signal inputs with its own modulation? Really? hyper

If so its the best vca in eurorand IMO


yes. the sliders on bottom correspond to the sliders on top. 3 in 1 out. each of the 3 inputs has modulation input. per side.
realtrance
jicamasalad wrote:
anderson303 wrote:
I tried that. It's the weirdest thing, it worked in the cell 90 for 24 hours.

I pulled all the other modules out the next day the noise was back and there was no change.


Sorry to hear about your noise issues! I'm having some odd behavior also: I had a patch up, VCO-VCF-VCA modulated by envelopes triggered by MI Peaks, left the patch up and running for an hour or so to go do other things, came back and the patch was dead, meaning no sound coming out - no cables or values changed, should have just been humming away on the same drone but the VCA was now passing no signal; traced the patch back and could find no reason for it.

Also, some more thoughts about the envelope times. As has been demonstrated, they are noticeably shorter than the System 100m modules which served as the inspiration for the Sys 500; I was able to find times for the envelopes on the Jupiter 8 - not the same architecture I know, but from a similar vintage, and those had Attack times from 1ms to 5S and Release times from 1ms to 10S; Similarly, the System 100 had Attack times from .4ms to 3S, and Release times from .8ms to 6S. Both these synths are capable of seemingly much longer envelopes than the System 500 - I'm curious as to why?

Also, with the ENV in cycle mode, the Attack and Decay sliders only seem to function within about the lower third of the throw of the pot - once I try to set up long slow cycle LFOs using cycle mode the ENV just quits and outputs nothing - pushing the sliders back down to their lowest values seems to "reset" the cycle, hence there seems to be an upper limit to the ENV in cycle mode.

Would love it if Malekko could chime in with some thoughts on these observations, or in an ideal world specs including Envelope times for the 540.

Maybe this forum is not the place for these questions (apologies, if so), but it seemed potentially useful info for prospective customers.


Question about this (I've been exploring recently, demoing): is this true for both envelopes, or only for the lower one on the 540 module?

The demo I tried did this on the lower envelope, but the upper one you could put both A and D sliders to the top and set envelope to Slow, and it cycled the way you'd expect it to, when set to Cycle.

On the lower envelope, however, the cycling just died the minute I pushed Attack above about 4 on the slider.

Weird, otherwise the envelope seemed okay, being triggered by Ext.
Norgatron
ignatius wrote:

yes. the sliders on bottom correspond to the sliders on top. 3 in 1 out. each of the 3 inputs has modulation input. per side.


That is surprising as the description on the Roland site suggests the CV modulation inputs are mixed together and modulate the sum of the 3 audio inputs.

Quote:
The 530 Dual VCA (voltage controlled Amplifier) features two independent voltage controlled amplifiers for controlling the loudness of audio signals. Each VCA has three sliders for an audio input mixer, three sliders to mix CV inputs, and a selector switch for linear or exponential response modes.


It's that it says "three sliders to mix CV inputs". If the CV inputs are mixed and modulate the sum, then you can't control each input to the VCA seperately.
jicamasalad
ignatius wrote:

yes. the sliders on bottom correspond to the sliders on top. 3 in 1 out. each of the 3 inputs has modulation input. per side.


Interesting; that is not my experience with this module, or the System 100m; the 3 CV inputs get summed to control the mixed audio inputs, I believe. At least I can confirm that last night I patched a single audio signal in and used 3 different CVs to modulate. The reason this is useful is, for example, if you have a slow AD envelope and then a faster, wobbly LFO, then you get a slow rise and fall of a wobbly thing - magic. I don't believe it is actually 6 independent VCAs summing to 2 outputs, but I will try to confirm.
jicamasalad
realtrance wrote:

Question about this (I've been exploring recently, demoing): is this true for both envelopes, or only for the lower one on the 540 module?

The demo I tried did this on the lower envelope, but the upper one you could put both A and D sliders to the top and set envelope to Slow, and it cycled the way you'd expect it to, when set to Cycle.

On the lower envelope, however, the cycling just died the minute I pushed Attack above about 4 on the slider.

Weird, otherwise the envelope seemed okay, being triggered by Ext.


VERY interesting! I had a patch up last night with the ENV in slow cycle with the Attack and Decay set to maximum, and it was working beautifully, (though still much shorter times than the SYS 100m) but it WAS the upper of the two ENVs! I'll have to make the same patch on the bottom unit and see if it dies like it did before.
ignatius
jicamasalad wrote:
ignatius wrote:

yes. the sliders on bottom correspond to the sliders on top. 3 in 1 out. each of the 3 inputs has modulation input. per side.


Interesting; that is not my experience with this module, or the System 100m; the 3 CV inputs get summed to control the mixed audio inputs, I believe. At least I can confirm that last night I patched a single audio signal in and used 3 different CVs to modulate. The reason this is useful is, for example, if you have a slow AD envelope and then a faster, wobbly LFO, then you get a slow rise and fall of a wobbly thing - magic. I don't believe it is actually 6 independent VCAs summing to 2 outputs, but I will try to confirm.


weird. this is how i've patched the demo system every time i've used it but maybe i'm on crack all the time.

maybe i'm thinking of the filter. idk. i'll try to mess with it next time the demo system is free
Norgatron
ignatius wrote:
jicamasalad wrote:
ignatius wrote:

yes. the sliders on bottom correspond to the sliders on top. 3 in 1 out. each of the 3 inputs has modulation input. per side.


Interesting; that is not my experience with this module, or the System 100m; the 3 CV inputs get summed to control the mixed audio inputs, I believe. At least I can confirm that last night I patched a single audio signal in and used 3 different CVs to modulate. The reason this is useful is, for example, if you have a slow AD envelope and then a faster, wobbly LFO, then you get a slow rise and fall of a wobbly thing - magic. I don't believe it is actually 6 independent VCAs summing to 2 outputs, but I will try to confirm.


weird. this is how i've patched the demo system every time i've used it but maybe i'm on crack all the time.

maybe i'm thinking of the filter. idk. i'll try to mess with it next time the demo system is free


That sweet sweet Eurocrack w00t w00t w00t hihi
realtrance
jicamasalad wrote:
realtrance wrote:

Question about this (I've been exploring recently, demoing): is this true for both envelopes, or only for the lower one on the 540 module?

The demo I tried did this on the lower envelope, but the upper one you could put both A and D sliders to the top and set envelope to Slow, and it cycled the way you'd expect it to, when set to Cycle.

On the lower envelope, however, the cycling just died the minute I pushed Attack above about 4 on the slider.

Weird, otherwise the envelope seemed okay, being triggered by Ext.


VERY interesting! I had a patch up last night with the ENV in slow cycle with the Attack and Decay set to maximum, and it was working beautifully, (though still much shorter times than the SYS 100m) but it WAS the upper of the two ENVs! I'll have to make the same patch on the bottom unit and see if it dies like it did before.


If it turns out to be the same thing (i.e. lower env stops cycling when Attack is set above 4) as I saw/heard.... I'm going to guess it's either intentional function; a quirk, like many things have; or an oddity that will be corrected in future editions, making the one you have a very rare unit! smile

I wouldn't panic or worry at this point; very early days, I'm sure Roland/Malekko will take care of things, or explain.

And if that and the arguments about CV mixing are the only real things people can get OCD about.... I have to say, the System-500 sounds absolutely lovely and wild at the same time, so that trumps such weirdnesses in my book, by a long shot. smile All the mod inputs and mixing possibilities built-in seem very economical, to my admittedly non-expert eyes.
Norgatron
realtrance wrote:


And if that and the arguments about CV mixing are the only real things people can get OCD about.... I have to say, the System-500 sounds absolutely lovely and wild at the same time, so that trumps such weirdnesses in my book, by a long shot. smile All the mod inputs and mixing possibilities built-in seem very economical, to my admittedly non-expert eyes.


Any OCD on my part is purely down to enthusiasm being channeled towards details, because I'm still waiting for a ship date. Dead Banana
303ish
Thanks guys. If you can confirm whats the 530 behavior after all we're not worthy
jicamasalad
303ish wrote:
Thanks guys. If you can confirm whats the 530 behavior after all we're not worthy


Inputs mix together 3 into 1 based on levels set by input faders; 3 CV sources are mixed/summed to control the VCA; no correlation between CV input and audio input - i.e. audio at input 2 is affected by CVs on inputs 1, 2 and 3 together; audio at input 1 or 3 is affected the same way, and audio at 1, 2 and 3, mixed with input faders, is affected by the sum of all CVs, 1-3.

Output of both VCAs is available on either SUM output; the CV inputs on VCA 1 do NOT affect the audio at VCA 2, and vice versa.

So, in summary: 3-input VCA to single output, affected by the sum of 3 CVs; output of each VCA available at SUM output of the opposite VCA.

Hope this is helpful!
jicamasalad
realtrance wrote:


If it turns out to be the same thing (i.e. lower env stops cycling when Attack is set above 4) as I saw/heard.... I'm going to guess it's either intentional function; a quirk, like many things have; or an oddity that will be corrected in future editions, making the one you have a very rare unit! smile

I wouldn't panic or worry at this point; very early days, I'm sure Roland/Malekko will take care of things, or explain.


I agree - new modules, new manufacturer relationships, new designs. Some wrinkles to work out are to be expected.

With further exploration, both sides of the ENV do cycle with the faders pushed up past 4 now; however I've discovered that if I power down while the ENV is cycling and then return, it will not resume cycling UNTIL I press the "manual" button once - seems to need an initial trigger to start the cycle, which makes perfect sense - after that initial it must pull that trigger from the close of the decay voltage, which it can't do until it runs the cycle the "first" time.

And, since I seem to be the guy stuck on envelop times, I'll just put it out there that I found specs for the SYS 100m ENV times:

Attack: 1.5ms -7.5S
Decay: 4ms - 15S
Sustain: 0 - +/-10V
Release: 4ms - 15S

The 540, as far as I can tell, comes nowhere close to these times (in "Slow" switch mode). Longest Attack or Decay/Release I've been able to obtain is about 2S.

The Roland Q&A sheet for the 540 states that in "Slow" mode it should be able to achieve close to the SYS 100m specs (4S, 10S, 10S), but I'm not getting anything near that. Could someone else confirm their slowest Attack, Decay and Release times for us please? I'm curious if I might perhaps have a sketchy unit.

(My only caveat is that I'm using the ENV to open a filter or VCA, and have not yet put it on a 'scope to measure actual voltage times, which would be a more accurate test.)

Despite these hiccups, the modules sound fantastic, and I'm really pleased with the design and build quality, and those of you waiting should be very excited to get your hands on them!
realtrance
jicamasalad wrote:
realtrance wrote:


If it turns out to be the same thing (i.e. lower env stops cycling when Attack is set above 4) as I saw/heard.... I'm going to guess it's either intentional function; a quirk, like many things have; or an oddity that will be corrected in future editions, making the one you have a very rare unit! smile

I wouldn't panic or worry at this point; very early days, I'm sure Roland/Malekko will take care of things, or explain.


I agree - new modules, new manufacturer relationships, new designs. Some wrinkles to work out are to be expected.

With further exploration, both sides of the ENV do cycle with the faders pushed up past 4 now; however I've discovered that if I power down while the ENV is cycling and then return, it will not resume cycling UNTIL I press the "manual" button once - seems to need an initial trigger to start the cycle, which makes perfect sense - after that initial it must pull that trigger from the close of the decay voltage, which it can't do until it runs the cycle the "first" time.

And, since I seem to be the guy stuck on envelop times, I'll just put it out there that I found specs for the SYS 100m ENV times:

Attack: 1.5ms -7.5S
Decay: 4ms - 15S
Sustain: 0 - +/-10V
Release: 4ms - 15S

The 540, as far as I can tell, comes nowhere close to these times (in "Slow" switch mode). Longest Attack or Decay/Release I've been able to obtain is about 2S.

The Roland Q&A sheet for the 540 states that in "Slow" mode it should be able to achieve close to the SYS 100m specs (4S, 10S, 10S), but I'm not getting anything near that. Could someone else confirm their slowest Attack, Decay and Release times for us please? I'm curious if I might perhaps have a sketchy unit.

(My only caveat is that I'm using the ENV to open a filter or VCA, and have not yet put it on a 'scope to measure actual voltage times, which would be a more accurate test.)

Despite these hiccups, the modules sound fantastic, and I'm really pleased with the design and build quality, and those of you waiting should be very excited to get your hands on them!


Okay so to be clear, in case of interest to others (or Malekko, for that matter): your system changed and the lower envelope now continues to cycle with the attack slider above 4? In other words, both envelopes now behave exactly the same way?

Or, is it that the lower envelope differs solely in that if the attack slider is moved above 4, you need to manually trigger the envelope at that point to get slow cycling on it? Whereas the top one cycles automatically without needing the trigger?

In any event, glad to see you figured it out to your satisfaction.

I wouldn't expect the System 500 to be an exact replica of either the System 100/m/102 or System 700; it's inspired by those, but is its own thing, ultimately, a Malekko system designed in collaboration with Roland, with intimate info and history from the Systems 100/700 as reference. I think that's been clear all along? So the shorter envelope times... I usually assume in such electrical engineering situations that there's a reason things are the way they are; it keeps me sane and less paranoid. cool

Perhaps, if these modules are a success, though, there will be future modules as well, maybe another "classic slow ADSR," or Ring Mod/ S&H/additional LFO (a "550"), or Out (a "531"), who knows? I wouldn't expect it, but it seems like from the info out there that it's been a good job of collaboration to get to this point. All depends on what the partners wish to do next, if anything.
Eichburger
So I'm using the long wait productively. Built a cabinet for the 500 modules should they ever get to the UK:



My first attempt at Tolex so pretty pleased with the result. Design is a combination of System 700 and 100m. The 1U panel at the bottom will have some mults, power switch and some 1/8th inch to 1/4inch adaptor plugs with passive attenuators. Similar to the panel on the 100m case.

I just need the modules. Please soon!!
jicamasalad
realtrance wrote:


Okay so to be clear, in case of interest to others (or Malekko, for that matter): your system changed and the lower envelope now continues to cycle with the attack slider above 4? In other words, both envelopes now behave exactly the same way?

Or, is it that the lower envelope differs solely in that if the attack slider is moved above 4, you need to manually trigger the envelope at that point to get slow cycling on it? Whereas the top one cycles automatically without needing the trigger?


Both upper and lower ENVs behave the same, and will cycle above 4 on the faders, so long as an initial trigger is applied from the "Manual", yes. Probably nothing changed from my first report - it had not occurred to me that the ENV would need that initial trigger to begin cycling.
realtrance
jicamasalad wrote:
realtrance wrote:


Okay so to be clear, in case of interest to others (or Malekko, for that matter): your system changed and the lower envelope now continues to cycle with the attack slider above 4? In other words, both envelopes now behave exactly the same way?

Or, is it that the lower envelope differs solely in that if the attack slider is moved above 4, you need to manually trigger the envelope at that point to get slow cycling on it? Whereas the top one cycles automatically without needing the trigger?


Both upper and lower ENVs behave the same, and will cycle above 4 on the faders, so long as an initial trigger is applied from the "Manual", yes. Probably nothing changed from my first report - it had not occurred to me that the ENV would need that initial trigger to begin cycling.


The consistency of behavior (sorry I misunderstood you), probably puts this squarely in the, "that's not a bug, it's a feature!" category. Ten cents you'll find this behavior useful and indispensable at some point, now that you're familiar with it! smile
ZZ Ardoz
d/l
Norgatron
Tom_1970
no sign of it or the modules in shops over here (The Netherlands).

Some shops do have the SYR-E84 in stock though.
MindMachine
Foxtone has them in stock too.
Norgatron
I just got an update on my order with RedDog and rushed here to tell you that the estimated delivery date is 3rd June.

eek! confused angry very frustrating d'oh! cry hmmm..... waah Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana
Tom_1970
confused
Well, if that's the term Roland will deliver I think there is a chane I have a Waldorf KB37 before the System-500.
efm-7
I'm just curious - for those who have gotten their modules recently, particularly the 512, what are the serial numbers up to?
Norgatron
Norgatron wrote:
I just got an update on my order with RedDog and rushed here to tell you that the estimated delivery date is 3rd June.

eek! confused angry very frustrating d'oh! cry hmmm..... waah Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana


I checked Gear4Music's estimated delivery earlier this week and they stated 21st March. I contacted them and asked if this was still their estimate. They said it was but nothing could be guaranteed. So, on Friday I decided to put in a secondary order with them. Three and a bit weeks beats three and a bit months. I kept my Red Dog order.

This morning I get an update from Gear4Music

Quote:
These units are manufactured by a small specialist team, before being sent away for quality control in Japan – unfortunately this means we have been informed that these wont be here to [sic] July.

We have been informed by Roland that we are still getting these first, but unfortunately the delay is unavoidable.


Let's see if Reddog will slip their dates to August, eh readers!


I really don't know if I can be bothered to wait that long. seriously, i just don't get it
jicamasalad
Norgatron wrote:

I really don't know if I can be bothered to wait that long. seriously, i just don't get it


I completely understand your frustration at the delay, but want to assure you that these modules are WELL worth the wait; they really do sound fantastic, and you will be very happy with the sounds you can create once they get into your hands. Your patience will be rewarded!

Finally had the first chance to spend many hours with the SYS 500 this past weekend, and it is a delight in every way. My small observations about the shorter-than-expected envelope times should not deter anyone (I doubt they would!) - this synth sounds delicious!

I am now hoping and praying that they can figure out how to fit the 110 module into this format (I believe it's possible - I've done a few sketches and could make it work by "only" losing VCO multiple waveform outs and the sync in and out - just as on the original 110); if they can pull that off I'm in for a whole second rack of SYS 500, with 3 510s and 2 540s.

Thanks again Malekko and Roland, please keep it up, and to those of you waiting, the wait will be worth it - hang in there!
Tom_1970
I'd hoped to have the System-500 by now.

My plan was to buy a System-500 set and then the Waldorf KB37 and modules, but maybe it will be the other way around.
Norgatron
Maybe Roland could compensate me by giving me a free plug-out for my System 1M thumbs up
nienhuis47
Does anyone know what the delay time range on the 572 is?
ZZ Ardoz
Just got my 572 and everything sounds pretty groovy, with the exception that when I turn the delay time up, it not only gets noisy (expected), but emits a pitch - is this meant to be, or did I get a dud. I'd hate to pay to send this back.

Nothing plugged into the input (though it does the same with something in) and straight to a clean VCA, which also has nothing else plugged into it

Should be pretty clear from this video what I'm talking about

clarkbt
ZZ Ardoz wrote:
Just got my 572 and everything sounds pretty groovy, with the exception that when I turn the delay time up, it not only gets noisy (expected), but emits a pitch - is this meant to be, or did I get a dud.


I don't have a 572 to compare with, but that's normal for BBDs since they're clocked by an oscillator. A doepfer A-188A makes a similar effect as the delay time goes up. You can run the output through a LPF to get rid of it.
ZZ Ardoz
clarkbt wrote:
ZZ Ardoz wrote:
Just got my 572 and everything sounds pretty groovy, with the exception that when I turn the delay time up, it not only gets noisy (expected), but emits a pitch - is this meant to be, or did I get a dud.


I don't have a 572 to compare with, but that's normal for BBDs since they're clocked by an oscillator. A doepfer A-188A makes a similar effect as the delay time goes up. You can run the output through a LPF to get rid of it.


Thanks clark! I have another BBD which does this a little, but not to this extent - just wanted to make sure this was in normal parameters - definitely filterable, but loses a lot of charm doing so. Not completely sold on this unit after a few hours, but I'll give it a couple of days before deciding on its fate.
ian-c
ZZ Ardoz wrote:
clarkbt wrote:
ZZ Ardoz wrote:
Just got my 572 and everything sounds pretty groovy, with the exception that when I turn the delay time up, it not only gets noisy (expected), but emits a pitch - is this meant to be, or did I get a dud.


I don't have a 572 to compare with, but that's normal for BBDs since they're clocked by an oscillator. A doepfer A-188A makes a similar effect as the delay time goes up. You can run the output through a LPF to get rid of it.


Thanks clark! I have another BBD which does this a little, but not to this extent - just wanted to make sure this was in normal parameters - definitely filterable, but loses a lot of charm doing so. Not completely sold on this unit after a few hours, but I'll give it a couple of days before deciding on its fate.


i've just got a 572 and have also noticed this. it is really, really noisy.

i'm also not sold on this module yet, which is a real shame because i've looked forward to getting one for so long. but will give it more time!
the tone ranger
I can see why the 521 is a dual filter with all that noise coming from the delay.
jicamasalad
ian-c wrote:
ZZ Ardoz wrote:
clarkbt wrote:
ZZ Ardoz wrote:
Just got my 572 and everything sounds pretty groovy, with the exception that when I turn the delay time up, it not only gets noisy (expected), but emits a pitch - is this meant to be, or did I get a dud.


I don't have a 572 to compare with, but that's normal for BBDs since they're clocked by an oscillator. A doepfer A-188A makes a similar effect as the delay time goes up. You can run the output through a LPF to get rid of it.


Thanks clark! I have another BBD which does this a little, but not to this extent - just wanted to make sure this was in normal parameters - definitely filterable, but loses a lot of charm doing so. Not completely sold on this unit after a few hours, but I'll give it a couple of days before deciding on its fate.


I've just got a 572 and have also noticed this. it is really, really noisy.

i'm also not sold on this module yet, which is a real shame because i've looked forward to getting one for so long. but will give it more time!



I have to say I feel the same way about this module; I experienced odd behaviors from the "mix" pots (not full dry or wet signals as expected, and bursts of crackle as the pot was turned, similar to another poster who shared a video on earlier pages of this thread) and generally excessive noise floor; I also found the OSC noise from the BBD to be too much to make the module useful for the kind of music I compose, and the phaser effect left me a little tepid, so I've put this module up for sale. No ill thoughts towards Roland or Malekko or the design or manufacture, it's just not a module for me. The "voice" of the SYS 500, however, is FANTASTIC!
ZZ Ardoz
jicamasalad wrote:
ian-c wrote:
ZZ Ardoz wrote:
clarkbt wrote:
ZZ Ardoz wrote:
Just got my 572 and everything sounds pretty groovy, with the exception that when I turn the delay time up, it not only gets noisy (expected), but emits a pitch - is this meant to be, or did I get a dud.


I don't have a 572 to compare with, but that's normal for BBDs since they're clocked by an oscillator. A doepfer A-188A makes a similar effect as the delay time goes up. You can run the output through a LPF to get rid of it.


Thanks clark! I have another BBD which does this a little, but not to this extent - just wanted to make sure this was in normal parameters - definitely filterable, but loses a lot of charm doing so. Not completely sold on this unit after a few hours, but I'll give it a couple of days before deciding on its fate.



I've just got a 572 and have also noticed this. it is really, really noisy.

i'm also not sold on this module yet, which is a real shame because i've looked forward to getting one for so long. but will give it more time!



I have to say I feel the same way about this module; I experienced odd behaviors from the "mix" pots (not full dry or wet signals as expected, and bursts of crackle as the pot was turned, similar to another poster who shared a video on earlier pages of this thread) and generally excessive noise floor; I also found the OCS noise from the BBD to be too much to make the module useful for the kind of music I compose, and the phaser effect left me a little tepid, so I've put this module up for sale. No ill thoughts towards Roland or Malekko or the design or manufacture, it's just not a module for me. The "voice" of the SYS 500, however, is FANTASTIC!


Agreed on the tepid phaser - really a weak cup of tea, and that clock noise makes the delay useless for half the range

I've decided to send mine back, if they will take it. I'll stick with my moogerfooger phaser for phasing chores (highly recommended and controllable), and my vintage Memory Man (which is also noisy but has far more character) for delays. I'd hate to have to sell it on the auction site as a new 572 in a box sold for 102 bucks and another new one for an offer less than the 299 listing. Kind of backing up my thought that these might be rather overpriced. very frustrating very frustrating
Norgatron
Very interesting to see some negative reaction to the 572.

Does anyone know how it compares with the 172 with regards to the osc noise on the delay and the character of the phaser? I would expect them to be broadly the same or different in a good way.
Kummer
Yeah the noise on the delay is kind of a downer, but the I really like the phaser so I'm keeping mine.
sonicmayhem
That noise is completely unacceptable. What were they thinking?

I know its not Roland but the Oto BIM is prolly the best delay Ive ever owned.
WIZARDISHUNGRY
what's up with clock noise on delays – can't people use a second bbd just for the clocking?
ian-c
Norgatron wrote:
Does anyone know how it compares with the 172 with regards to the osc noise on the delay and the character of the phaser?


yeah, i was wondering that.
chvad
If you have a BBD without the clock noise chances are that delay just has a built in filter already. It's modular... just use a LPF and all is well.
ZZ Ardoz
chvad wrote:
If you have a BBD without the clock noise chances are that delay just has a built in filter already. It's modular... just use a LPF and all is well.


Have you tried that on a 572? You need so much that it turns it into a muffled wet towel - all the character is gone. The noise on this amkes it completely unuseable
Zodanga
I have to agree with ZZ Ardoz. I love these 500 series modules in general, but the delay is unusable. It's easily the one real weak point in the series.

The range of the delay knob from 12:00-5:00 introduces the noise. When you think of "clock noise seeping in," you might think of a faint, very high-pitched whine, but this delay produces a loud whistle well within the 'treble clef' range. It's not subtle, and it's not high enough in frequency to filter it out.
ian-c
does anyone know, are there any plans to recall these modules or is that it?
ringroad1
Wondering if the designer chose wider parameters for a longer delay, accepting that the clock noise would break in over a certain level? Could have warranted a warning in any accompanying documentation tho (like at the bottom of http://www.doepfer.de/A1882.htm)

The service manual for the 100m suggests that the 172 only goes up to 7ms delay length. There's no equivalent spec on the System 500 website.

fwiw http://pdf.dzsc.com/MN3/MN3007.pdf suggests a clock frequency range of "10 - 100KHz", with the lower limit presumably being 10KHz - so presumably if you're hearing the clock noise, it's being underclocked?

At what delay length does the osc noise break in? What's the max delay you measure on your 572?
falseeye


Just delivered this week
dubnspace
bummed to hear about all these problems with the 572 as I have a complete voice system on order. would like to see Malekko weigh in on this.
ZZ Ardoz
dubnspace wrote:
bummed to hear about all these problems with the 572 as I have a complete voice system on order. would like to see Malekko weigh in on this.


Last they were on this thread was January - I'd like to hear from them as well, as I swallowed a lot of shipping on the module, as it's not "defective" seriously, i just don't get it
Kingnimrod
after seeing the noise on that delay, I've decided to wait a while before getting any of them. Will give them a chance to work out any bugs.

The only delay I've used that had that kind of clock noise is the Koma pedal.
falseeye
the oscillator and the filter sound great . very tb303 or sh 101 to me kinda blippy but with lots of bottom end very glad i got mine
Biff
I have the set and love them. I think with the delay it sounds good, but they allow you to tweak it into unrealistic times. I guess conversely if they didn't do that, then people would say there's not much range, but I think it's good for tight delays. For longer ones, I'd say get a Memory Boy, SBG and some beer.
The delay doesn't self-oscillate when the feedback is on full power, does anyone know if that can be fixed on the back? I'm assuming a workaround is to set it all wet and recycle the noise in....

I like the phaser, but I wish I didn't sell my Polaris, once again, not set for self-oscillating feedback.
ZZ Ardoz
Biff wrote:
I have the set and love them. I think with the delay it sounds good, but they allow you to tweak it into unrealistic times. I guess conversely if they didn't do that, then people would say there's not much range, but I think it's good for tight delays. For longer ones, I'd say get a Memory Boy, SBG and some beer.
The delay doesn't self-oscillate when the feedback is on full power, does anyone know if that can be fixed on the back? I'm assuming a workaround is to set it all wet and recycle the noise in....

I like the phaser, but I wish I didn't sell my Polaris, once again, not set for self-oscillating feedback.


I would have rather had more room to move on a shorter-range delay than cramming all the usefulness in less than half the knob's sweep
realtrance
I understand the frustrations with the clock noise on the delay, but on the other hand.... forgive me a moment of being highly amused that people are complaining about "noise" on a modular synth forum..... zombie

I consider it just part of the sound, filter it away if you must, but isn't the joy of modular that things are different? Does the 572 have to be like every other analogue BBD delay?

Perhaps this is just my insanity, I take every instrument I encounter as, "it is what it is." As long as it's not utterly broken -- and maybe even then! -- it's just a question of finding a way to work with it. No instrument is without unexpected idiosyncracies. Right?

OTOH you may want to just completely, absolutely ignore me, I'm loving the built-in 8-bit synth engine in my new, Roland A-01 currently. smile Talk about noise! Digital noise! Aliasing from hell! Clicks! It's beautiful!

Plus a perfect companion if you have a System-500 Complete, btw. Kind of the Alpha and Omega of crazy I don't care, it's a synth sound with noise, these two together. smile

Make sure to set the keyboard to -3 octaves down in Controller mode, so the keyboard will play at a more expected range, if you get one of these.

Another little surprise. smile

I'm sure there will be more to come!
ZZ Ardoz
realtrance wrote:
I understand the frustrations with the clock noise on the delay, but on the other hand.... forgive me a moment of being highly amused that people are complaining about "noise" on a modular synth forum..... zombie

I consider it just part of the sound, filter it away if you must, but isn't the joy of modular that things are different? Does the 572 have to be like every other analogue BBD delay?

Perhaps this is just my insanity, I take every instrument I encounter as, "it is what it is." As long as it's not utterly broken -- and maybe even then! -- it's just a question of finding a way to work with it. No instrument is without unexpected idiosyncracies.


Did you read the complaints? It's not just noise, it's a pitched tone, you can't just filter it away without it being super dark. No need to be dismissive. People use modular gear for different things. Some aren't just about noisy blipfests. Have you personally tried a 572 in your rack?
realtrance
I know exactly what it sounds like, pitched and unpitched both. At what settings. With what types of input, and modulation.
Biff
I was able to remove the pitched sound with the 500 LPF, when you set the HPF switch to 2 it makes a nice dark delay (thus I retract saying to get a delay pedal). Without the HPF you get a rumbling delay (if that's your thing). I wonder if the pitched sound can be surgically removed with a notch filter or something like MI Shelves. The noise seems to be limited in harmonic content..
ZZ Ardoz
realtrance wrote:
I know exactly what it sounds like, pitched and unpitched both. At what settings. With what types of input, and modulation.


So you've had one in your rack, and used it in your setup?
ZZ Ardoz
Biff wrote:
I was able to remove the pitched sound with the 500 LPF, when you set the HPF switch to 2 it makes a nice dark delay (thus I retract saying to get a delay pedal). Without the HPF you get a rumbling delay (if that's your thing). I wonder if the pitched sound can be surgically removed with a notch filter or something like MI Shelves. The noise seems to be limited in harmonic content..


Perhaps. I guess my main issue though, when it comes down to it, is that this seemed more Malekko than Roland. I love my Borg. I love Malekko gear. I just wanted this to be more classic Roland. Maybe it's just my ears that are at fault though. I wouldn't want anyone else not to try it for themselves and come to their own conclusions
realtrance
ZZ Ardoz wrote:
realtrance wrote:
I know exactly what it sounds like, pitched and unpitched both. At what settings. With what types of input, and modulation.


So you've had one in your rack, and used it in your setup?


Correct.
ZZ Ardoz
realtrance wrote:
ZZ Ardoz wrote:
realtrance wrote:
I know exactly what it sounds like, pitched and unpitched both. At what settings. With what types of input, and modulation.


So you've had one in your rack, and used it in your setup?


Correct.


And is it still there? If not, why not?
realtrance
ZZ Ardoz wrote:
realtrance wrote:
ZZ Ardoz wrote:
realtrance wrote:
I know exactly what it sounds like, pitched and unpitched both. At what settings. With what types of input, and modulation.


So you've had one in your rack, and used it in your setup?


Correct.


And is it still there? If not, why not?


Dr. Ardoz, thanks for your analysis of my condition.

I will go home now and take two aspirin.
rico loverde
Josh just posted a video in the muffwiggler Facebook group regarding the 572.
ZZ Ardoz
realtrance wrote:
ZZ Ardoz wrote:
realtrance wrote:
ZZ Ardoz wrote:
realtrance wrote:
I know exactly what it sounds like, pitched and unpitched both. At what settings. With what types of input, and modulation.


So you've had one in your rack, and used it in your setup?


Correct.


And is it still there? If not, why not?


Dr. Ardoz, thanks for your analysis of my condition.

I will go home now and take two aspirin.


Not sure what that is meant to mean. I was asking if you still have it, and if not why did you part with it. That seems like a straight-ahead question. Just looking for insight from other users.
bentley
rico loverde wrote:
Josh just posted a video in the muffwiggler Facebook group regarding the 572.


Details? Link?
Dogma
So has anyone with experience with the phaser and the Schippman tell me if they are worlds apart? is there any demos about of the phaser - cant find any....
MindMachine
Biff wrote:
For longer ones, I'd say get a Memory Boy, SBG and some beer.


Some sage advice. Especially the last part. Guinness ftw!

The Dual ADSR w/ the VC LFO looks like a bargain. A ton of control in a single module. Have you tried looping the ADSR's? How do you like the module so far?
Biff
MindMachine wrote:
Biff wrote:
For longer ones, I'd say get a Memory Boy, SBG and some beer.


Some sage advice. Especially the last part. Guinness ftw!

The Dual ADSR w/ the VC LFO looks like a bargain. A ton of control in a single module. Have you tried looping the ADSR's? How do you like the module so far?


I think the adsr module is great. It doesn't cycle as fast as Intellijel's (still very fast though), but there's not much musical use for that. I haven't used the LFO yet, but it looks likes the one on many Roland synths that can fade in, which is a nice touch, also reset/cv control on LFOs in underrated in my book.
Nightly Closures
I'd like to pair the system 500 with my MFB Tanzbar. I was wondering if any of you are already doing this (sequencing the system 500 with the Tanzbar). If so, are there any compatibility issues I'm overlooking? Also, would the disting be an obvious choice for the remaining hp? seriously, i just don't get it
Thanks in advance. This site has been such a great resource.
jvt
https://www.facebook.com/groups/111029938930272/permalink/116143523055 6399/

bentley wrote:
rico loverde wrote:
Josh just posted a video in the muffwiggler Facebook group regarding the 572.


Details? Link?
rico loverde
jvt wrote:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/111029938930272/permalink/116143523055 6399/

bentley wrote:
rico loverde wrote:
Josh just posted a video in the muffwiggler Facebook group regarding the 572.


Details? Link?
thanks, I was on my phone and for the life of me couldn't get the link
paterursus
Could one of you who has seen the video give a brief summary for those of us troglodytes who aren't on fb? I have a 572 on order but am considering canceling it. Thanks so much.
Norgatron
Nightly Closures wrote:
I'd like to pair the system 500 with my MFB Tanzbar. I was wondering if any of you are already doing this (sequencing the system 500 with the Tanzbar). If so, are there any compatibility issues I'm overlooking? Also, would the disting be an obvious choice for the remaining hp? seriously, i just don't get it
Thanks in advance. This site has been such a great resource.


I can't see why the Tanzbar wouldn't work with the System 500 or indeed any other Eurorack gear, although I have no experience with it. Do you have any more specific doubts?

I got a Disting as part of a clutch of extra modules to fill in the extra 24HP in my 104 Skiff. If I had to pick one though, it would be this one. It's a Swiss army knife of a module and has so many uses it's hard to find a reason to have any other fill the extra 4HP in an 84HP case. If you have to pick one...
jzwoopwoop
paterursus wrote:
Could one of you who has seen the video give a brief summary for those of us troglodytes who aren't on fb? I have a 572 on order but am considering canceling it. Thanks so much.


Nothing revolutionary, and others have mentioned the fix here in this thread: send the delay output to a LPF and then close the filter just enough so that the clock noise from the delay is eliminated. Others in turn in this thread have complained that this colors the delay sound too greatly. The response in the vid is to make use of a mixer so that you're sending both wet and dry to the mixer, and then can combine wet & dry to taste. The video also mentions that the module is really intended to be a chorus, but Josh wanted to open up the BBD chip a bit to allow for some delay. So the other consensus seems to be, don't try to make this delay something it's not -- e.g., the one and only delay that you have that can be used for both short & long repeats.
paterursus
Thanks, jzwoopwoop! That certainly gives me a fresh perspective.
Nightly Closures
I can't see why the Tanzbar wouldn't work with the System 500 or indeed any other Eurorack gear, although I have no experience with it. Do you have any more specific doubts?

I got a Disting as part of a clutch of extra modules to fill in the extra 24HP in my 104 Skiff. If I had to pick one though, it would be this one. It's a Swiss army knife of a module and has so many uses it's hard to find a reason to have any other fill the extra 4HP in an 84HP case. If you have to pick one...[/quote]

Thanks for the reply. I've only used the Tanzbar as a drum machine so far. This will be my first eurorack...
Norgatron
jzwoopwoop wrote:
paterursus wrote:
Could one of you who has seen the video give a brief summary for those of us troglodytes who aren't on fb? I have a 572 on order but am considering canceling it. Thanks so much.


Nothing revolutionary, and others have mentioned the fix here in this thread: send the delay output to a LPF and then close the filter just enough so that the clock noise from the delay is eliminated. Others in turn in this thread have complained that this colors the delay sound too greatly. The response in the vid is to make use of a mixer so that you're sending both wet and dry to the mixer, and then can combine wet & dry to taste. The video also mentions that the module is really intended to be a chorus, but Josh wanted to open up the BBD chip a bit to allow for some delay. So the other consensus seems to be, don't try to make this delay something it's not -- e.g., the one and only delay that you have that can be used for both short & long repeats.



That makes more sense to me now. I haven't got access to the FB video yet either but...

I found this description of the 100's 172 module here: http://www.roland.co.uk/blog/aira-modular-what-is-a-modular-synthesize r/

Quote:

One of the most coveted SYSTEM-100M modules is the M-172 Phase Shifter, Audio Delay, LFO, Gate Delay. This featured packed analog module contains a five-step phase shifter, a very short BBD delay (perfect for doubling and flanger-like effects), a gate delay and a triangle-wave LFO. The LFO is normalled (internally connected without a jack inserted) to the Phase Shifter and Audio Delay sections to create synchronised stereo, spatial and ensemble effects.


So to be clear it's "a very short BBD delay (perfect for doubling and flanger-like effects". In the product sheet below that it says the it gives 0.3ms - 7ms of delay time. Earlier in this thread Josh said that:
Quote:

"i used a (much more available yet still 15v) MN3007 and overclocked the crap out of it. From 0 to around 5 will be that chorus detune range but after that it goes into "delay" territory (yes i know choruses are delays too...you know what i mean) Since an oscillator running at high frequencies drives a BBD you will start to hear it come into audible range at around 5 on the time pot and the more you turn that pot the longer the delay times plus lower in pitch the clock becomes. You can coax the BBD delay (about 500ms) by doing this"

And from what I can hear in the demo videos it sounds like the maximum available delay time is well up in 100s of milliseconds and far beyond the 172's range.

So, if Josh's design decision was to make the delay go beyond the 7ms available on 172 then I think the only question is this: Do you like that trade-off between the reduction in fine control over the (presumably close to) 0.3 to 7ms range from 0-5 on the knob for the benefit of having a +7ms range from 5-10, or not?

Bearing in mind that with the delay time input you can set-up any range of control you like with judicious use of VCAs or something like the A-183-2 Offset-Generator/Attenuator/Polarizer, it's not that the range isn't there it's just what's at your fingertips that's at issue.

I suppose you could modify the range in the hardware too...
ZZ Ardoz
Norgatron wrote:

So, if Josh's design decision was to make the delay go beyond the 7ms available on 172 then I think the only question is this: Do you like that trade-off between the reduction in fine control over the (presumably close to) 0.3 to 7ms range from 0-5 on the knob for the benefit of having a +7ms range from 5-10, or not?

Bearing in mind that with the delay time input you can set-up any range of control you like with judicious use of VCAs or something like the A-183-2 Offset-Generator/Attenuator/Polarizer, it's not that the range isn't there it's just what's at your fingertips that's at issue.

I suppose you could modify the range in the hardware too...


You can modify it - he says on that thread on fb that you can adjust a trim pot inside. I think that having that as a switchable range on the front panel would be a great addition for a second run of this. Add a little more spice in the phaser section and I'd consider re-buying it. I'll still stick with my disappointment overall with this module. Maybe having a Moog 12-stage Phaser and Cluster Flux has spoiled me, but both of those deliver sounds I'd really love to see in euroland. Being a big Malekko fan, I would have expected that kind of excitement in the 572.
Norgatron
ZZ Ardoz wrote:
I'll still stick with my disappointment overall with this module. Maybe having a Moog 12-stage Phaser and Cluster Flux has spoiled me, but both of those deliver sounds I'd really love to see in euroland. Being a big Malekko fan, I would have expected that kind of excitement in the 572.


Fair enough, but: the pair of those cost 3x that of a 572; it was always supposed to be akin to the old 100m and 700 modules and not Malekko, Moog or anything else and, yeah, if that's what you were expecting it to measure up to then disappointment is understandable.

Look at me defending a product I'm waiting 6-months to take delivery of! It's peanut butter jelly time!
Kummer
You have to take it for what it is. I have the moog's as well and I will still keep my 572 (which is the only module of the line that I have at the moment). Using a filter helps a lot and at first I thought that I would rather have one built in, but now I am seeing the advantages of using your own filters, as each one gives a different character to the sound. The overclocking and lack of filter makes it more flexible than it would have been otherwise.
ZZ Ardoz
Norgatron wrote:
ZZ Ardoz wrote:
I'll still stick with my disappointment overall with this module. Maybe having a Moog 12-stage Phaser and Cluster Flux has spoiled me, but both of those deliver sounds I'd really love to see in euroland. Being a big Malekko fan, I would have expected that kind of excitement in the 572.


Fair enough, but: the pair of those cost 3x that of a 572; it was always supposed to be akin to the old 100m and 700 modules and not Malekko, Moog or anything else and, yeah, if that's what you were expecting it to measure up to then disappointment is understandable.

Look at me defending a product I'm waiting 6-months to take delivery of! It's peanut butter jelly time!


279 for the Phaser and 4 and change for the Cluster - so about 2x the cost. Never expected them to replicate the sound of those two monster specialised units, what I was expecting was excitement in the same ballpark. Again this is a personal opinion, and not an absolute. For all I know I have no ability to judge these things, despite 35 years programming and engineering. I think others will delight in the 572. It just didn't do it for me. Not a single "oooo" moment for me. The 521 VCF sounds great though, and I might use the return money to get that.
ZZ Ardoz
Kummer wrote:
You have to take it for what it is. I have the moog's as well and I will still keep my 572 (which is the only module of the line that I have at the moment). Using a filter helps a lot and at first I thought that I would rather have one built in, but now I am seeing the advantages of using your own filters, as each one gives a different character to the sound. The overclocking and lack of filter makes it more flexible than it would have been otherwise.


Did you output the 572 into the Cluster Flux yet? I presume the filter in that would tame it a bit
ignatius
jzwoopwoop wrote:
paterursus wrote:
Could one of you who has seen the video give a brief summary for those of us troglodytes who aren't on fb? I have a 572 on order but am considering canceling it. Thanks so much.


Nothing revolutionary, and others have mentioned the fix here in this thread: send the delay output to a LPF and then close the filter just enough so that the clock noise from the delay is eliminated. Others in turn in this thread have complained that this colors the delay sound too greatly. The response in the vid is to make use of a mixer so that you're sending both wet and dry to the mixer, and then can combine wet & dry to taste. The video also mentions that the module is really intended to be a chorus, but Josh wanted to open up the BBD chip a bit to allow for some delay. So the other consensus seems to be, don't try to make this delay something it's not -- e.g., the one and only delay that you have that can be used for both short & long repeats.


it's not a _fix_ though. as explained in the video analog delays have a filter built into them to filter the clock noise out. every BBD does.. and if it doesn't, as in a module like the roland or the doepfer BBD delays, then it's left up to the user to use the filter of choice for the desired sound.

being a modular system the nature of it is to have all the options left to the user instead of an enclosed design.

so, a moog analog delay or any analog delay pedals etc have the filter already in the path.

if josh had stuck to the original design then you'd just have your chorus and that'd be that.. so the module being the way it is now gives you the option of having a pretty decent delay and flexible patching for all kinds of delay based FX and generally warbly glurpy squidgy stuff.

if you don't want to deal with these kinds of things in your modular system then get a pedal or get a digital delay
Kummer
ZZ Ardoz wrote:
Kummer wrote:
You have to take it for what it is. I have the moog's as well and I will still keep my 572 (which is the only module of the line that I have at the moment). Using a filter helps a lot and at first I thought that I would rather have one built in, but now I am seeing the advantages of using your own filters, as each one gives a different character to the sound. The overclocking and lack of filter makes it more flexible than it would have been otherwise.


Did you output the 572 into the Cluster Flux yet? I presume the filter in that would tame it a bit


No not yet, though now that you bring it up, I might try it to see what it sounds like. w00t
rico loverde
ignatius wrote:

if josh had stuck to the original design then you'd just have your chorus and that'd be that.. so the module being the way it is now gives you the option of having a pretty decent delay and flexible patching for all kinds of delay based FX and generally warbly glurpy squidgy stuff.

if you don't want to deal with these kinds of things in your modular system then get a pedal or get a digital delay
this. applause
paterursus
This has been a tremendously helpful discussion for me - the primary reason I joined this community. After reading the perspectives here and thinking about it some more, I'm going to go ahead and get the 572. There doesn't seem to be any issue with it - just a design choice. I'll try it out and see how it works with my sounds. I've liked the demos of the shorter delay times.

Many thanks for all the thoughtful comments. Now I just have to wait for it to arrive. sad banana
Norgatron
Norgatron wrote:
Norgatron wrote:
I just got an update on my order with RedDog and rushed here to tell you that the estimated delivery date is 3rd June.

eek! confused angry very frustrating d'oh! cry hmmm..... waah Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana


I checked Gear4Music's estimated delivery earlier this week and they stated 21st March. I contacted them and asked if this was still their estimate. They said it was but nothing could be guaranteed. So, on Friday I decided to put in a secondary order with them. Three and a bit weeks beats three and a bit months. I kept my Red Dog order.

This morning I get an update from Gear4Music

Quote:
These units are manufactured by a small specialist team, before being sent away for quality control in Japan – unfortunately this means we have been informed that these wont be here to [sic] July.

We have been informed by Roland that we are still getting these first, but unfortunately the delay is unavoidable.


Let's see if Reddog will slip their dates to August, eh readers!


I really don't know if I can be bothered to wait that long. seriously, i just don't get it


Gear4Music have moved their delivery date up to 1st/2nd June.
Norgatron
paterursus wrote:
This has been a tremendously helpful discussion for me - the primary reason I joined this community. After reading the perspectives here and thinking about it some more, I'm going to go ahead and get the 572. There doesn't seem to be any issue with it - just a design choice. I'll try it out and see how it works with my sounds. I've liked the demos of the shorter delay times.

Many thanks for all the thoughtful comments. Now I just have to wait for it to arrive. sad banana


ZZ Ardoz
paterursus wrote:
This has been a tremendously helpful discussion for me - the primary reason I joined this community. After reading the perspectives here and thinking about it some more, I'm going to go ahead and get the 572. There doesn't seem to be any issue with it - just a design choice. I'll try it out and see how it works with my sounds. I've liked the demos of the shorter delay times.

Many thanks for all the thoughtful comments. Now I just have to wait for it to arrive. sad banana


Now I've seen Josh's video, I agree on the not faulty part. If it had a stronger-sounding phaser, I might have kept it. But it was overall just not worth that price to me. The other modules sound really good. It's just the 572 that was tepid to me.
ZZ Ardoz
Norgatron wrote:

Gear4Music have moved their delivery date up to 1st/2nd June.


Would the customs duties be so high as to not make it worth getting from the States? You could have it next week! Lower price could offset those costs as well
Norgatron
ZZ Ardoz wrote:
Norgatron wrote:

Gear4Music have moved their delivery date up to 1st/2nd June.


Would the customs duties be so high as to not make it worth getting from the States? You could have it next week! Lower price could offset those costs as well


Hmm! Lets's see.... Google.. Oh, hold on I'm just seeing shops in the UK... Rimmers Music? Let's just check... Oh. Deliver Monday 21st? Chat? Why not. Is it really in stock? Should be? Okay. [thinks] What the hell! Ordered.

I'm not totally sure they have them in stock but why not take punt on a third order eh? The person on the chat said someone else would be in touch so I'll let you know tomorrow how it goes.
ZZ Ardoz
Norgatron wrote:
ZZ Ardoz wrote:
Norgatron wrote:

Gear4Music have moved their delivery date up to 1st/2nd June.


Would the customs duties be so high as to not make it worth getting from the States? You could have it next week! Lower price could offset those costs as well


Hmm! Lets's see.... Google.. Oh, hold on I'm just seeing shops in the UK... Rimmers Music? Let's just check... Oh. Deliver Monday 21st? Chat? Why not. Is it really in stock? Should be? Okay. [thinks] What the hell! Ordered.

I'm not totally sure they have them in stock but why not take punt on a third order eh? The person on the chat said someone else would be in touch so I'll let you know tomorrow how it goes.


Hope that works out! And what could possibly go wrong with somewhere called Rimmers? hihi hihi
orlog24
Has anyone compared the 500 series dual adsr to intellijels dual adsr?
I almost got the 500, but went with intellijel instead. Just wondering others take.
nienhuis47
Also curious how the envelope sounds as far as attack response.
Norgatron
ZZ Ardoz wrote:
Norgatron wrote:
ZZ Ardoz wrote:
Norgatron wrote:

Gear4Music have moved their delivery date up to 1st/2nd June.


Would the customs duties be so high as to not make it worth getting from the States? You could have it next week! Lower price could offset those costs as well


Hmm! Lets's see.... Google.. Oh, hold on I'm just seeing shops in the UK... Rimmers Music? Let's just check... Oh. Deliver Monday 21st? Chat? Why not. Is it really in stock? Should be? Okay. [thinks] What the hell! Ordered.

I'm not totally sure they have them in stock but why not take punt on a third order eh? The person on the chat said someone else would be in touch so I'll let you know tomorrow how it goes.


Hope that works out! And what could possibly go wrong with somewhere called Rimmers? hihi hihi




Ah, but it hasn't worked out. They mailed this morning to say it isn't actually in-stock till July. At least they should now up-date their site to a pre-order.

Thomann are saying their stock will be in at the end of April but with Euro rates as they are it's going to cost a bit more. It's tempting.

I looked at US shipment too but most don't have stock and the ones I found who did don't ship internationally.

I'll be in Tokyo(!) at the start of May so...
ZZ Ardoz
Norgatron wrote:
I looked at US shipment too but most don't have stock and the ones I found who did don't ship internationally.

I'll be in Tokyo(!) at the start of May so...


There's a couple of US places with stock that will ship to you that are legitimate stores. No Rimming! PM me if you want links. Though getting it in Tokyo sounds like more fun. And the steering wheel will be on the correct side for you!
Norgatron
Well, smoke me a kipper.

Rimmer got back in touch. They wanted to keep my business so they spoke to Roland. Roland assured them that no-one in UK is going to get them any earlier than anyone else. So Rimmer, Gear4Music, Reddog will all get stock at the same time. And that time is July, they said. But with these coming by sea you can never be sure. No reason for Roland to lie so I assume this is all true.
Rimmer got back to me and offered me a discount. So I took that. hihi

So, no I'm paying less which soothes the delay a little.
ZZ Ardoz
Norgatron wrote:
Well, smoke me a kipper.

Rimmer got back in touch. They wanted to keep my business so they spoke to Roland. Roland assured them that no-one in UK is going to get them any earlier than anyone else. So Rimmer, Gear4Music, Reddog will all get stock at the same time. And that time is July, they said. But with these coming by sea you can never be sure. No reason for Roland to lie so I assume this is all true.
Rimmer got back to me and offered me a discount. So I took that. hihi

So, no I'm paying less which soothes the delay a little.


Seeing how they're still showing it in stock, and based on a lot of other similar reports, they look like a bait-and-switch operation. I wouldn't give anyone like that the first penny of my business.
Nightly Closures
I can't seem to find any availability in the US for the complete system.
jzwoopwoop
Pretty sure Foxtone Music has everything in stock.
falseeye
i got the oscillator and filter 2 weeks ago from switched on in texas . I'm pretty sure they have more
xclark
If anyone is looking for the VCO and/or VCF, I have put mine up for sale. They are listed cheaper than the stores and include shipping to continental US. click the link in my sig below to go to my post in the For Sale forum.
ZZ Ardoz
xclark wrote:
If anyone is looking for the VCO and/or VCF, I have put mine up for sale. They are listed cheaper than the stores and include shipping to continental US. click the link in my sig below to go to my post in the For Sale forum.


Were they not as good as you expected?
Nightly Closures
Thanks. Ordered!
xclark
ZZ Ardoz wrote:
xclark wrote:
If anyone is looking for the VCO and/or VCF, I have put mine up for sale. They are listed cheaper than the stores and include shipping to continental US. click the link in my sig below to go to my post in the For Sale forum.


Were they not as good as you expected?


I have a Juno 60 and SH101, and love them both. so I'm not sure what I was expecting with the 500 series. I plugged them in and started sequencing them and immediately thought "this sounds just like these other two synths of mine." I mean so much like them to me, that I came to realize that I need to mix up my synth voices a little more than that, so I put them up for sale. I'd love to find a Yamaha CS15 or something that will bring a bit of sonic variety to what I'm doing.

as ridiculous as it sounds, in the end these just ended up sounding too Roland for my needs. however I think the System 500 modules are awesome and I'm still tempted to click ADD TO CART on the whole system.
ZZ Ardoz
xclark wrote:
I'd love to find a Yamaha CS15 or something that will bring a bit of sonic variety to what I'm doing.

as ridiculous as it sounds, in the end these just ended up sounding too Roland for my needs. however I think the System 500 modules are awesome and I'm still tempted to click ADD TO CART on the whole system.


Ha! I think that's as good a compliment as the design team could hope for, but I hear your reasoning. Rest of the system sounds great, and it would be amazing to have 6 voices worth and an RE-301 to spend a month with. Now if someone wants to do that CS-15 as modules, that would be great
Norgatron
rico loverde wrote:
Josh just posted a video in the muffwiggler Facebook group regarding the 572.


My request to join the group seems to be being ignored. Who do have to hassle to get accepted?
bentley
Norgatron wrote:
rico loverde wrote:
Josh just posted a video in the muffwiggler Facebook group regarding the 572.


My request to join the group seems to be being ignored. Who do have to hassle to get accepted?


Same here. I sent a request about 2 weeks ago. Guess we don't know the super secret handshake.
h4ndcrafted
I don't really find the 572 an issue now, not much of a hassle to split the output for filtering, plus if you don't you can get some nice effects, hihats even.

The only thing that's put me off them for now is the price increase, up by about £25 a unit.ill wait till the pound is more stable.
303ish
We seriously need some acid demos spinning
nucleus
303ish wrote:
We seriously need some acid demos spinning


I second that. Desperate to hear some proper demos. This system is really great.
computer controlled
303ish wrote:
We seriously need some acid demos spinning


If i had a set, i'd do some!
xclark
303ish wrote:
We seriously need some acid demos spinning


https://clyp.it/ewkdau02

Disclaimer: I'm not particularly big fan of the typical 303 squelchy acid sounds, and I'm pretty sure my riffs are shite, and I might well have no idea what I'm doing at all anyway, but I had a half hour to patch up my 512 VCO and my 521 VCF to my Abstrakt Avalon's sequencer and tweak away.

I felt like there were some small sweet spots that sounded like what I think 303's sound like a lot of the time.
Norgatron
bentley wrote:
Norgatron wrote:
rico loverde wrote:
Josh just posted a video in the muffwiggler Facebook group regarding the 572.


My request to join the group seems to be being ignored. Who do have to hassle to get accepted?


Same here. I sent a request about 2 weeks ago. Guess we don't know the super secret handshake.


Not sure if my post made a difference but I'm added now.

Watched the video now and it all sounds good to me.

This point about it being a chorus is confusing to some, I guess. Both 172 and 572 are delays in essence but are configured for chorus effects primarily.

A basic chorus effect is made from short delay whose delay time is slowly and slightly modulated to get a varying pitch.
Both 172 and 572 have short delays with the LFO section routed into the delay time by default. It's already a chorus.
For a chorus effect the output is mixed with the original to create the illusion of two similar but not identical sounds playing together.
The 572 makes this chorus functionality even more explicit than the 172 by adding the wet/dry mix.
But then Josh "went further" and provided the over-clocking option for longer delays.
303ish
xclark wrote:
303ish wrote:
We seriously need some acid demos spinning


https://clyp.it/ewkdau02

Disclaimer: I'm not particularly big fan of the typical 303 squelchy acid sounds, and I'm pretty sure my riffs are shite, and I might well have no idea what I'm doing at all anyway, but I had a half hour to patch up my 512 VCO and my 521 VCF to my Abstrakt Avalon's sequencer and tweak away.

I felt like there were some small sweet spots that sounded like what I think 303's sound like a lot of the time.


Well done, thank you! Loved the riffs too nanners
303ish
xclark wrote:
Here's some random noodling made with Series 500 VCO and VCF. It should be noted that I used an Intellijel Dual ADSR and (starting at 1:15) Modcan Dual Delay in this recording. Sequenced by Metropolis.
It sounds like classic Roland to my ears. nanners


Totally missed this one! Even better!
Norgatron
Well, keeping three (yes three) orders active at the same time has paid off. Reddog are shipping me a 512, 521 and 530 today. I should have them on Monday!

It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners Rockin' Banana!


The 540 and 572 are still due at the start of June.

So, I've now cancelled the other two orders and maybe someone else will get bumped up the queue as a result.
anderson303
A month in and these are still my favorite modules.

To me, this is a perfect square:

[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/257186525" params="auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_use r=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true" width="100%" height="450" iframe="true" /]
Norgatron
Norgatron wrote:
Well, keeping three (yes three) orders active at the same time has paid off. Reddog are shipping me a 512, 521 and 530 today. I should have them on Monday!



The courier lost my parcel! MY ASS IS BLEEDING
paterursus
Norgatron wrote:
The courier lost my parcel! MY ASS IS BLEEDING

d'oh! I'm sure there's a perfectly reasonable expla... angry
This is one of those "You've got to be kidding me" moments. I suppose you'll laugh about this someday.
I think your situation is worse than mine. I'm...still...waiting...with no estimated ship date. You had expectations. My sympathies.
Norgatron
paterursus wrote:
Norgatron wrote:
The courier lost my parcel! MY ASS IS BLEEDING

d'oh! I'm sure there's a perfectly reasonable expla... angry
This is one of those "You've got to be kidding me" moments. I suppose you'll laugh about this someday.
I think your situation is worse than mine. I'm...still...waiting...with no estimated ship date. You had expectations. My sympathies.


Thanks and you have sympathies too. I can relate!

Anyway, they got it and it's on it's way to me now. The label fell off apparently. Tomorrow then! hyper
brucethehoon
anderson303 wrote:
A month in and these are still my favorite modules.

To me, this is a perfect square:

[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/257186525" params="auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_use r=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true" width="100%" height="450" iframe="true" /]


That is freaking AMAZING sounding. Holy moly!
anderson303
brucethehoon wrote:
That is freaking AMAZING sounding. Holy moly!


It's just one Square wave with a tiny bit of pulse width modified run through an almost totally wet 572 delay. I added an Apollo Pre-amp and EQ as well to bring it fully to life (maybe a little too loud but whatever).
Norgatron
Got my VCO, VCF and VCA from Reddog thumbs up



First impressions:

Dinky - I know the size is Eurorack but they are like larger modules shrunk down. The photos don't convey this somehow, as you scale them in your head, but they are packed with stuff.

The screen print is just okay but not really good.

Knobs, sliders switches etc are reassuringly solid. One slider cap is slightly mis-printed.



Fits into my Makenoise Skiff comfortably but I'm using flying lead from a 4MS row power.

Square wave is awesome.

Saw is also awesome.

Tracking from CvPal and BSP good.

VCO modulation was super nice.

Filter good so far but I need to spend more time with it. I am going to compare with my Ripples when I get that working again (intermittent fault from DIY build) but it's not as instantly pleasing as that was. Probably just me though and compared to my 202 it's definitely cool. I reckon I just need to find the sweet spots a bit more I was just messing about last night.

VCAs are VCAs so far but no complaints there.

I'm driving envelopes from my System 1M and LFOs from the same and MN Function.

I seem to have issues with CV/gate out on both my CvPal and my my BSP which deflated my fun a bit but hopefully I'll get that sorted soon. Guinness ftw!
Norgatron
Okay, I love the filter now love

Did someone ask for acid.


[s]https://soundcloud.com/shadow_factory/acid-500[/s]
303ish
Norgatron wrote:
Okay, I love the filter now love

Did someone ask for acid.


[s]https://soundcloud.com/shadow_factory/acid-500[/s]


It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners Dead Banana

fucking GREAT
the tone ranger
Norgatron wrote:
Okay, I love the filter now love

Did someone ask for acid.


[s]https://soundcloud.com/shadow_factory/acid-500[/s]


applause

These modules can't arrive here quick enough!
jvt
Norgatron wrote:
Okay, I love the filter now love

Did someone ask for acid.

[s]https://soundcloud.com/shadow_factory/acid-500[/s]

Oh my gosh yes! applause applause Ok, I'm finally pulling the trigger on these!
rico loverde
dbl post.
rico loverde
two days ago there was a complete 500 system for sale on San Francisco Craigslist. I think Robotspeak was the poster.

edit: https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/msd/5524945229.html
anderson303
Norgatron wrote:
Okay, I love the filter now love

Did someone ask for acid.


[s]https://soundcloud.com/shadow_factory/acid-500[/s]


Wow. I've been so in love with the 572 effects I haven't even used it dry like this. I didn't know it could sound like a 303 and 101 as well.

We really are in the golden age of analog (30 years later!!!)
Norgatron
anderson303 wrote:
Norgatron wrote:
Okay, I love the filter now love

Did someone ask for acid.


[s]https://soundcloud.com/shadow_factory/acid-500[/s]


Wow. I've been so in love with the 572 effects I haven't even used it dry like this. I didn't know it could sound like a 303 and 101 as well.

We really are in the golden age of analog (30 years later!!!)


Maybe this is the new approach from Roland. Learn your VCO, VCF and VCA and then you can get the envelopes and FX hihi

I'm glad people like the demo too. Note the top line is using high-pass filter, so not actually XoX-like. I have to say I was surprised when it came out sounding so 303. I never got that close with my 202 and I was just trying out an acid style more than trying to get that exact sound.
jicamasalad
Here's another recent noodle to give folks an idea of the sound of this System. Drums are Yamaha RX5, all other sounds are Roland System 500, with no outboard effects of any kind, so you can hear the synth. SYS500 was either triggered directly from the drum machine or from a Serge sequencer, which was the only non-SYS500 module used.

This is a fantastic sounding instrument; hope to hear more music from you folks as you begin to take delivery of your orders.

[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/259317924" params="auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_use r=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true" width="100%" height="450" iframe="true" /]

Here's the drumless version:

[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/259320015" params="auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_use r=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true" width="100%" height="450" iframe="true" /]
Fiddlestickz
can we talk about the build quality, received my 521 last week, can't say I'm overly impressed with build quality, sliders are very wobbly, and call me picky but the frequency and resonance knobs are overly awkward to get at to tweak live..

I'll still be buying the rest in the series but I'm slightly disappointed in the quality and feel of these modules..
anderson303
Fiddlestickz wrote:
can we talk about the build quality, received my 521 last week, can't say I'm overly impressed with build quality, sliders are very wobbly, and call me picky but the frequency and resonance knobs are overly awkward to get at to tweak live..

I'll still be buying the rest in the series but I'm slightly disappointed in the quality and feel of these modules..


Let me know when one breaks. If I hadn't bought a 303 or 202 30 years later I would have said the same about them, but even more so, felt like plastic toys.
Fiddlestickz
anderson303 wrote:
Fiddlestickz wrote:
can we talk about the build quality, received my 521 last week, can't say I'm overly impressed with build quality, sliders are very wobbly, and call me picky but the frequency and resonance knobs are overly awkward to get at to tweak live..

I'll still be buying the rest in the series but I'm slightly disappointed in the quality and feel of these modules..


Let me know when one breaks. If I hadn't bought a 303 or 202 30 years later I would have said the same about them, but even more so, felt like plastic toys.


I dunno you know when you have a certain idea of what something should feel like before you get it, I expected some weight, tight stiffish sliders, generally built like a tank you know..and it's not, it's very light, some of the caps on the back were bent right over, sliders feel really light and wobble easily...knobs are solid though, all superficial of course but still I've come to expect high quality with Roland, even though a lot of their stuff is plastic, their old modular stuff is much much better quality than these new 500 series modules...

The 521 filter's sound took me by surprise, then again I haven't really played too much with it, I'm sure I'll get it later when I put the time into it, look forward to having the whole system though, and making entire compositions with just it..
Nightly Closures
This is the system 500 with BSP and tanzbar. No outboard effects.
https://soundcloud.com/thedanielclapp/nightly-closures-lee-rolandos-ca lusa-club

They feel great and sound exactly as I hoped. The 572 is pretty subtle.
ZZ Ardoz
Fiddlestickz wrote:
anderson303 wrote:
Fiddlestickz wrote:
can we talk about the build quality, received my 521 last week, can't say I'm overly impressed with build quality, sliders are very wobbly, and call me picky but the frequency and resonance knobs are overly awkward to get at to tweak live..

I'll still be buying the rest in the series but I'm slightly disappointed in the quality and feel of these modules..


Let me know when one breaks. If I hadn't bought a 303 or 202 30 years later I would have said the same about them, but even more so, felt like plastic toys.


I dunno you know when you have a certain idea of what something should feel like before you get it, I expected some weight, tight stiffish sliders, generally built like a tank you know..and it's not, it's very light, some of the caps on the back were bent right over, sliders feel really light and wobble easily...knobs are solid though, all superficial of course but still I've come to expect high quality with Roland, even though a lot of their stuff is plastic, their old modular stuff is much much better quality than these new 500 series modules...

The 521 filter's sound took me by surprise, then again I haven't really played too much with it, I'm sure I'll get it later when I put the time into it, look forward to having the whole system though, and making entire compositions with just it..


Did Roland build them or did Malekko?
Fiddlestickz
ZZ Ardoz wrote:
Fiddlestickz wrote:
anderson303 wrote:
Fiddlestickz wrote:
can we talk about the build quality, received my 521 last week, can't say I'm overly impressed with build quality, sliders are very wobbly, and call me picky but the frequency and resonance knobs are overly awkward to get at to tweak live..

I'll still be buying the rest in the series but I'm slightly disappointed in the quality and feel of these modules..


Let me know when one breaks. If I hadn't bought a 303 or 202 30 years later I would have said the same about them, but even more so, felt like plastic toys.


I dunno you know when you have a certain idea of what something should feel like before you get it, I expected some weight, tight stiffish sliders, generally built like a tank you know..and it's not, it's very light, some of the caps on the back were bent right over, sliders feel really light and wobble easily...knobs are solid though, all superficial of course but still I've come to expect high quality with Roland, even though a lot of their stuff is plastic, their old modular stuff is much much better quality than these new 500 series modules...

The 521 filter's sound took me by surprise, then again I haven't really played too much with it, I'm sure I'll get it later when I put the time into it, look forward to having the whole system though, and making entire compositions with just it..


Did Roland build them or did Malekko?


yes I know my point is they aren't as nicely built as i expected is all..
ZZ Ardoz
Fiddlestickz wrote:
ZZ Ardoz wrote:
Fiddlestickz wrote:
anderson303 wrote:
Fiddlestickz wrote:
can we talk about the build quality, received my 521 last week, can't say I'm overly impressed with build quality, sliders are very wobbly, and call me picky but the frequency and resonance knobs are overly awkward to get at to tweak live..

I'll still be buying the rest in the series but I'm slightly disappointed in the quality and feel of these modules..


Let me know when one breaks. If I hadn't bought a 303 or 202 30 years later I would have said the same about them, but even more so, felt like plastic toys.


I dunno you know when you have a certain idea of what something should feel like before you get it, I expected some weight, tight stiffish sliders, generally built like a tank you know..and it's not, it's very light, some of the caps on the back were bent right over, sliders feel really light and wobble easily...knobs are solid though, all superficial of course but still I've come to expect high quality with Roland, even though a lot of their stuff is plastic, their old modular stuff is much much better quality than these new 500 series modules...

The 521 filter's sound took me by surprise, then again I haven't really played too much with it, I'm sure I'll get it later when I put the time into it, look forward to having the whole system though, and making entire compositions with just it..


Did Roland build them or did Malekko?


yes I know my point is they aren't as nicely built as i expected is all..


It was a question I wasn't sure about, not an attempt to make comment on your findings. Sorry for the confusion
jicamasalad
[quote="ZZ Ardoz"][quote="Fiddlestickz"][quote="ZZ Ardoz"][quote="Fiddlestickz"][quote="anderson303"]
Fiddlestickz wrote:
can we talk about the build quality, received my 521 last week, can't say I'm overly impressed with build quality, sliders are very wobbly, and call me picky but the frequency and resonance knobs are overly awkward to get at to tweak live..

I'll still be buying the rest in the series but I'm slightly disappointed in the quality and feel of these modules..


I'll jump in with two cent's worth:

Yes, as discussed in detail earlier in the thread, these modules are built in the USA by Malekko, with some very small details finished by Roland in Japan (slider caps, or pot knobs, I can't recall) and final testing and packaging in Japan.

I understand your impression; I agree that the sliders feel wobbly - it's not the caps, but actual play in the slider stem within the slider pot itself - it could be tighter and more "crisp", but it's understood there are cost considerations here. I found the rotary pots to be fine, and I was pleased that all the jacks have panel nuts - on the original System 100m there were no panel nuts at all for the jacks, which always puts strain on the solder joints at the PCB behind.

Silkscreening looks good on my units, and all in all I'm amazed at what they were able to squash down from the larger modules and reproduce in the already teeny Eurorack format. IMHO Eurorack is, by design, limited by it's size, since it's very hard to achieve functional density in such a small panel, without going for WIDE modules (like Elements). I often find it difficult to get my stubby fingers into controls in the center of a rats nest of cables on a tiny module!

I consider myself pretty persnickety about build quality, having worked for a synth manufacturer for many years and holding extremely high standards, and while the System 500 feels a little less "tight" than, say, the JP-08, it still seems very clean and solid and well built to me (slider pots notwithstanding). And I'm very happy with the sound and functionality of the modules. All in all and excellent addition to the Euro world, in my opinion.

That was more like 40¢, not 2¢; sorry!
trickness
Fiddlestickz wrote:
can we talk about the build quality, received my 521 last week, can't say I'm overly impressed with build quality, sliders are very wobbly, and call me picky but the frequency and resonance knobs are overly awkward to get at to tweak live..

I'll still be buying the rest in the series but I'm slightly disappointed in the quality and feel of these modules..


Gotta agree, very underwhelmed by the controls when I tried them, it was a turnoff. Wish they felt as nice as let's say Synth Tech stuff. Or Malekko!
johny_gtr
Today was a first time when I played on Roland System 500.I found all controls quite good but ergonomic was poor (especially when a lot of cables plugged into modules).
303ish
So... some modules like the 540 are sold out for months now... I wonder if Roland or Malekko is improving something based on users feedback, or if its only a logistics problem seriously, i just don't get it
ignatius
303ish wrote:
So... some modules like the 540 are sold out for months now... I wonder if Roland or Malekko is improving something based on users feedback, or if its only a logistics problem seriously, i just don't get it


they just sell out fast.
Fiddlestickz
Okay I can't believe it took me this long to work this out.. d'oh!



My Roland 500 series filter is ALSO a kick ass 6 input 2 output mixer with mini faders... with the freq knob open all the way and resonance at zero it acts just like a mini mixer with faders, so now I don't need mutes ( I was looking for a mixer with mutes & still might get one ) but as I have faders which are just as cool and no pops or clicks, my tests I just ran are beautiful, the filter circuit it's self doesn't colour the sound noticeably at all, but if you wind the cut off in around about 20% you get this lovely warm sweet kinda wooly but clear sound..FMD I'm going to need another one of these for a 12 chan euro mixer

eek!
Norgatron
ignatius wrote:
303ish wrote:
So... some modules like the 540 are sold out for months now... I wonder if Roland or Malekko is improving something based on users feedback, or if its only a logistics problem seriously, i just don't get it


they just sell out fast.


The 540 and 572 have effectively been out of stock in the UK since February. I'm expecting mine to finally ship next week. It seems like a single delivery arrived at the end of last and after selling out that was it for half a year!
Originally the rest of the modules were due in June too but then they suddenly appeared in April.
Roland and Malekko haven't really explained why but the demand has clearly outstripped supply by a long way.
Norgatron
Norgatron wrote:
ignatius wrote:
303ish wrote:
So... some modules like the 540 are sold out for months now... I wonder if Roland or Malekko is improving something based on users feedback, or if its only a logistics problem seriously, i just don't get it


they just sell out fast.


The 540 and 572 have effectively been out of stock in the UK since February. I'm expecting mine to finally ship next week. It seems like a single delivery arrived at the end of last and after selling out that was it for half a year!
Originally the rest of the modules were due in June too but then they suddenly appeared in April.
Roland and Malekko haven't really explained why but the demand has clearly outstripped supply by a long way.


If I was superstitious I would wonder if my commenting on the lateness of these modules wasn't somehow directly affecting their availability...

Just a day after my previous comment Reddog have e-mailed me to explain that rather than expecting them to ship next week they have now been told to contact Roland at the start of next month (June) for an update on availability. angry
Nightly Closures
I'm absolutely loving my system 500! I've put in about 100+ hours of use so far and all the sliders and pots feel the same as the first day.
Norgatron
(Still no idea when the rest of the modules are coming.)


This video popped up on MATRIXSYNTH today. It's supposedly an AB of the System 100m and System 500 filters. But I can't make heads or tails of it.

"Left Ch of VCA is 121, Right Ch is 521"


jicamasalad
Norgatron wrote:
(Still no idea when the rest of the modules are coming.)


This video popped up on MATRIXSYNTH today. It's supposedly an AB of the System 100m and System 500 filters. But I can't make heads or tails of it.

"Left Ch of VCA is 121, Right Ch is 521"




Well, you are not alone in not being able to make any sense of this video, but I think the fault is in the video itself! IT makes no sense!

There is no channel separation in the audio at all, and the operators are simply controlling one synth, then messing with the other - there is no reference point or control value to use to gauge difference in the two instruments in this "test".

I have access to a 100m, so I will do my best in the next moth or so to make an actual comparison video of the 100m and 500 filters, if people think this comparison would still be useful.

For such a test I would take a single source and mult it to both filters, set the initial values as close to the same as possible, and modulate both filters with the same CV, sending the audio from each filter on it's own to the left and right side of a stereo recording. In this way we could evaluate the CV response between the two filters, and hear the realtime differences in cutoff and res between the two.

If anyone else has ideas for a better or more useful comparison let me know and I'll do that as well...
Norgatron
I think a comparison would be interesting. But the opinion of someone who is using both in a variety of situations is just as valuable as a demo.



My 572 arrived yesterday. hyper I made a fantastic 'talking' patch and then lost it immediately and couldn't get it back. d'oh! (I lost it changing outputs so I could grab a recording. Strange way for it to go, but shit happens) Anyway it's superb but I need to get to grips with it a bit more.

4/5 modules now with just the 540 to come. At least it means I have time to finish my DIY rack before I completely run out of space in the skiff.
Norgatron
[/img]
GryphonP3
Does anyone else have any issues with the rotary octave switches on the 512 making a quick BLOOP sound every time they switch octaves?? Its driving me insane and making the octave switch unuseable for me.. I lovd playong octave switches during a sequence and its inpossible with this VCO.
synthysynth
Yeah its a documented flaw if you read through this thread. Malekko blamed it on pots that arent commercially available or something like that but other modules smoothly jump octaves so its another one of those things....
Ive learned to let eurorack be eurorack and if you want a good roland sound for cheapish then get an sh2/09.


GryphonP3 wrote:
Does anyone else have any issues with the rotary octave switches on the 512 making a quick BLOOP sound every time they switch octaves?? Its driving me insane and making the octave switch unuseable for me.. I lovd playong octave switches during a sequence and its inpossible with this VCO.
realtrance
Norgatron wrote:
[/img]


Good to see these are trickling out.

I'm probably Mr. Obvious here, but I wonder how reversing the I/O on the 572, so the delay is outputting to phaser instead of the other way around, sounds?

Also wonder, can you use the VCO's waveforms to cross-modulate? Plug the saw output of one into the mod input of the other, or maybe the output of the VCA being modulated by the envelope into one of the modulation inputs on the bottom of the VCO?

Similarly, are the SYNC ins and outs on the VCOs meant only to be plugged into each other, or could you say plug one of the LFOs or cycling envelopes running at high speed (in other words, low-grade audio signals) into a SYNC in? Are there any restrictions on stuff like that? The online manuals don't say much about any of that.

Also wonder whether the VCF overdrives, and if so, how? The VCAs have overdrive red LEDs, but what would be the purpose of that?

Just curious about a few things you'd take for granted in modular, I'm assuming they are similarly applicable here.
Norgatron
realtrance wrote:


Good to see these are trickling out.


Trickle is the word. Still no date for the 540

realtrance wrote:

I'm probably Mr. Obvious here, but I wonder how reversing the I/O on the 572, so the delay is outputting to phaser instead of the other way around, sounds?


I've done it. I can't really tell you how it sounds but that's the magic of modular. If you can think of a patch or even just try it you might get something wild.

realtrance wrote:

Also wonder, can you use the VCO's waveforms to cross-modulate? Plug the saw output of one into the mod input of the other, or maybe the output of the VCA being modulated by the envelope into one of the modulation inputs on the bottom of the VCO?


Similarly, are the SYNC ins and outs on the VCOs meant only to be plugged into each other, or could you say plug one of the LFOs or cycling envelopes running at high speed (in other words, low-grade audio signals) into a SYNC in? Are there any restrictions on stuff like that? The online manuals don't say much about any of that.



Yes, you can patch that way. The patch examples that Roland provide don't though. They patch the sync output from one VCO into the mod of another.

SYSTEM-500 Sound Patch Examples.pdf

SYSTEM-500 Sound Patch Examples You Tube playlist

As for patching an LFO into sync input, it would work like any other LFO to sync input, I think. There are no special restrictions for the System 500. As usual with modular you will get some sort of effect no mater what you patch; even if it's not very interesting you can do it.

realtrance wrote:

Also wonder whether the VCF overdrives, and if so, how? The VCAs have overdrive red LEDs, but what would be the purpose of that?


The purpose of the LED on the VCA is to indicate when you have over-driven the output. On the 530 demo video it simply says "Red means drive". You can see that as a warning that your sound is now distorted or as an opportunity to distort. But for a VCA you want to know that is happening. In other words the output of the VCA can be over-driven

For the filter there is no such indication because you can't overdrive the output. You can overdrive the inputs, by patching an over-driven VCA output into it, for example. Filters are frequency dependent attenuators (except when the resonance is self-oscillating) so to have an over-driven output is going beyond what they are normally designed to do. Active filters ensure the frequencies which you don't want to attenuate stay at unity gain.

realtrance wrote:

Just curious about a few things you'd take for granted in modular, I'm assuming they are similarly applicable here.


Yes, it's a modular synth like most others. :-)
Iridite
I understand that Roland UK have finally shipped at least some cases and modules to dealers in the UK on Friday so fingers crossed that start arriving this week.
realtrance
Aha, hadn't thought of that: using the filters to filter the VCA distortion, if you don't like its raw, glitchy sound, kind of like the delay noise if you turn delay time up past noon (clock noise).

Thanks for the authoritative response, Norgatron! Your expertise merits far more timely delivery of your 540 to you, good luck. thumbs up
Norgatron
realtrance wrote:
Aha, hadn't thought of that: using the filters to filter the VCA distortion, if you don't like its raw, glitchy sound, kind of like the delay noise if you turn delay time up past noon (clock noise).

Thanks for the authoritative response, Norgatron! Your expertise merits far more timely delivery of your 540 to you, good luck. thumbs up


cool Authoratative! I like that.

I wasn't saying you could/should filter the VCA to reduce the distortion though. If you want to stop it overdriving you can simply attenuate the inputs.

The filter won't remove distortion really. You'll just a filter the distortion or add extra distotion as you overdrive its input. The clock noise removal is something else.
realtrance
Norgatron wrote:
realtrance wrote:
Aha, hadn't thought of that: using the filters to filter the VCA distortion, if you don't like its raw, glitchy sound, kind of like the delay noise if you turn delay time up past noon (clock noise).

Thanks for the authoritative response, Norgatron! Your expertise merits far more timely delivery of your 540 to you, good luck. thumbs up


cool Authoratative! I like that.

I wasn't saying you could/should filter the VCA to reduce the distortion though. If you want to stop it overdriving you can simply attenuate the inputs.

The filter won't remove distortion really. You'll just a filter the distortion or add extra distotion as you overdrive its input. The clock noise removal is something else.


Understood. What I don't really get though is why one would want to drive the VCA into the red? The sound is pretty harsh. But then again the clock noise never really bothered me the way it did others here. Weird.
Norgatron
I suppose it depends what sound you start with, exactly how much it's being driven and whether you want or like distortion in your music.
jzwoopwoop
Anybody know if the inputs on the VCA module are DC coupled? I see the VCA as being so incredibly appealing because in addition to being a dual VCA with lin/exp switch, it's also a dual 3-channel mixer and accepts multiple cv control inputs as well. But if the VCA inputs aren't DC coupled, I'm not as interested in the VCA.

I've read the manual online but it offers no info on this. Would love if someone who owns the VCA could confirm. Thanks!
Norgatron
Iridite wrote:
I understand that Roland UK have finally shipped at least some cases and modules to dealers in the UK on Friday so fingers crossed that start arriving this week.


It looks like they are in stock now. Red Dog are shipping my 540 (after a nudge) and I should have it Monday. screaming goo yo
Norgatron
jzwoopwoop wrote:
Anybody know if the inputs on the VCA module are DC coupled? I see the VCA as being so incredibly appealing because in addition to being a dual VCA with lin/exp switch, it's also a dual 3-channel mixer and accepts multiple cv control inputs as well. But if the VCA inputs aren't DC coupled, I'm not as interested in the VCA.

I've read the manual online but it offers no info on this. Would love if someone who owns the VCA could confirm. Thanks!


I haven't tried the 530 with DC input, but the 100m's 130 module is AC coupled. I'd bet the 530 is AC too.
jzwoopwoop
Norgatron wrote:
jzwoopwoop wrote:
Anybody know if the inputs on the VCA module are DC coupled? I see the VCA as being so incredibly appealing because in addition to being a dual VCA with lin/exp switch, it's also a dual 3-channel mixer and accepts multiple cv control inputs as well. But if the VCA inputs aren't DC coupled, I'm not as interested in the VCA.

I've read the manual online but it offers no info on this. Would love if someone who owns the VCA could confirm. Thanks!


I haven't tried the 530 with DC input, but the 100m's 130 module is AC coupled. I'd bet the 530 is AC too.


Yeah, I bet you're right. I feel like if it was DC coupled, it would be specifically mentioned somewhere. Bummer. I'd grab that module right away if it was DC coupled.
Roy72
So, I've finished trying to fight off the Roland wants. I'm pretty keen on the filter and the oscillator modules. The delay/phaser is interesting too.

My question is what others are really integral to getting the Roland sound? Does the VCA add a roland special sauce? I have the Intellijel Dual ADSR, which seem pretty Roland to me, but don't have that interesting delay and trigger section in the middle, as well as the LFO.

I guess it's Muffwiggler, I need them all, but how far would the 512/521 combo take me into Roland land?
kwaidan
I'm looking at the System 500 filter for a four voice polyphonic system. Listening to Ignatius' demos, two of them may be what I need. The low end seems to be especially nice, and while I don't want it to go into self-oscillation for chords, it does sound watery.

However, I am aware that some are not so taken by it. I'll add that I do not care if it is an accurate reproduction. I just want something that sounds good for chordal duties. Any comments, demos, or suggestions would be appreciated.
Norgatron
Roy72 wrote:
So, I've finished trying to fight off the Roland wants. I'm pretty keen on the filter and the oscillator modules. The delay/phaser is interesting too.

My question is what others are really integral to getting the Roland sound? Does the VCA add a roland special sauce? I have the Intellijel Dual ADSR, which seem pretty Roland to me, but don't have that interesting delay and trigger section in the middle, as well as the LFO.

I guess it's Muffwiggler, I need them all, but how far would the 512/521 combo take me into Roland land?


Other's may disagree but I think the sound of the VCO and VCF are far more important than than the VCA in terms of the Roland sound.
Norgatron
kwaidan wrote:
I'm looking at the System 500 filter for a four voice polyphonic system. Listening to Ignatius' demos, two of them may be what I need. The low end seems to be especially nice, and while I don't want it to go into self-oscillation for chords, it does sound watery.

However, I am aware that some are not so taken by it. I'll add that I do not care if it is an accurate reproduction. I just want something that sounds good for chordal duties. Any comments, demos, or suggestions would be appreciated.


I can give a two-note system a try and see whether it sounds good to you. Oh, yeah, I got my 540 at last! So I can do that now It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners

I'm not sure what you mean about "accurate reproduction". Do you just mean in terms of similarity to the System 100m and 700?
Roy72
Norgatron wrote:
Roy72 wrote:
So, I've finished trying to fight off the Roland wants. I'm pretty keen on the filter and the oscillator modules. The delay/phaser is interesting too.

My question is what others are really integral to getting the Roland sound? Does the VCA add a roland special sauce? I have the Intellijel Dual ADSR, which seem pretty Roland to me, but don't have that interesting delay and trigger section in the middle, as well as the LFO.

I guess it's Muffwiggler, I need them all, but how far would the 512/521 combo take me into Roland land?


Other's may disagree but I think the sound of the VCO and VCF are far more important than than the VCA in terms of the Roland sound.


It's an interesting VCA though, lots of ins and outs. How many other VCAs have multiple modulation inputs? The Roland demo sounds cool with the LFO and envelope, the drive sounds nice too.
Roy72
Why do they say its 58mm deep?

[img]

[/img]
Norgatron
Roy72 wrote:
Why do they say its 58mm deep?






hmmm.....

Where do you measure depth from? Internal depth from front-panel surface down?

I don't think it's clear on Modulargrid either. https://www.modulargrid.net/s/forum/posts/index/362

You're not including the front panel (albeit a couple of mm) or the power header. And once you have a connector and some wriggle room added on it might be a bit closer to 40mm.

I bought the 65 mm deep Makenoise skiff without bus-board because I was worried about other skiffs being deep enough. I originally planned on the Moog mother case but it's only 48 mm deep. I now wonder if it would have been okay. confused

They all fit into the MN skiff okay and although I haven't measured I don't think there's much room to spare. 10mm at most I reckon. The usable depth could be less than quoted for by MN too.

I do wonder if the depth quoted by Roland is for the whole module, from the pots and sliders down. It would make sense as it doesn't specify and they are not all that deep, as your photo illustrates.
Norgatron
Norgatron wrote:
kwaidan wrote:
I'm looking at the System 500 filter for a four voice polyphonic system. Listening to Ignatius' demos, two of them may be what I need. The low end seems to be especially nice, and while I don't want it to go into self-oscillation for chords, it does sound watery.

However, I am aware that some are not so taken by it. I'll add that I do not care if it is an accurate reproduction. I just want something that sounds good for chordal duties. Any comments, demos, or suggestions would be appreciated.


I can give a two-note system a try and see whether it sounds good to you. Oh, yeah, I got my 540 at last! So I can do that now It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners

I'm not sure what you mean about "accurate reproduction". Do you just mean in terms of similarity to the System 100m and 700?


I had a crack at this the other night.

[s]https://soundcloud.com/steven-norgate/duophonic-system-500-by-norga tron[/s]

Example of duophonic patches with Roland System 500. Driven from Mutable Instruments CVpal.

Most have send effects applied in the EMU 1820m soundcard. The first two are recorded dry and then wet,

Patches start with envelope driving the filter only. Later ones have envelope on the VCA and LFO on the filter.

The VCOs have a variety of subtle modulations applied to them and different waveforms are selected and mixed for each patch.

(Spot the Boards of Canada phrase hihi )
Norgatron
Note sure why SC isn't working seriously, i just don't get it


But here's the linky

https://soundcloud.com/steven-norgate/duophonic-system-500-by-norgatro n
realtrance
Roy72 wrote:
Norgatron wrote:
Roy72 wrote:
So, I've finished trying to fight off the Roland wants. I'm pretty keen on the filter and the oscillator modules. The delay/phaser is interesting too.

My question is what others are really integral to getting the Roland sound? Does the VCA add a roland special sauce? I have the Intellijel Dual ADSR, which seem pretty Roland to me, but don't have that interesting delay and trigger section in the middle, as well as the LFO.

I guess it's Muffwiggler, I need them all, but how far would the 512/521 combo take me into Roland land?


Other's may disagree but I think the sound of the VCO and VCF are far more important than than the VCA in terms of the Roland sound.



It's an interesting VCA though, lots of ins and outs. How many other VCAs have multiple modulation inputs? The Roland demo sounds cool with the LFO and envelope, the drive sounds nice too.


Tony from MakeNoise recently made a very plausible argument that the style and quality of the envelope, particularly the attack phase, is as important if not more important than the filter, for creating characterful sound.

I would tend to agree. There was much discussion many years ago when the Andromeda A6 was released over whether or not its envelopes were "snappy" enough to capture certain types of sounds. At the time, I thought this was a bit overkill OCD, but now with more experience I feel otherwise. Alesis listened enough to add a system update early on that expanded the range of envelope "speeds" in the process generator. The results while subtle are striking.

If you think about the history and science of electronic sound synthesis, you can see why: be it Strawn's early research on FM, or Roland's later combination approach to hybrid digital/analogue in the D50 (the foundation architecturally for everything they've done since, really), much study has been made around the microarticulations that occur during the initial attack phase of any instrument's sound, electronic or not electronic. Some think this is the most important distinguishing factor in giving the ear indicators as to what type of musical sound it is hearing.

More important if the goal is emulation of other instruments, but that knowledge is broadly applicable.

This thus does indeed, then, make the VCA a critical factor in the signature of the sound.

I would assume Malekko/Roland would not have been ignorant of this fact in the creation of the 540, and would therefore argue that it's an important part of what is characteristic in the sound of the System 500 stuff.

All of the above hopefully completely obvious to many here, but perhaps of interest and worth further thought for others.
Roy72
Norgatron wrote:
Roy72 wrote:
Why do they say its 58mm deep?






hmmm.....

Where do you measure depth from? Internal depth from front-panel surface down?

I don't think it's clear on Modulargrid either. https://www.modulargrid.net/s/forum/posts/index/362

You're not including the front panel (albeit a couple of mm) or the power header. And once you have a connector and some wriggle room added on it might be a bit closer to 40mm.

I bought the 65 mm deep Makenoise skiff without bus-board because I was worried about other skiffs being deep enough. I originally planned on the Moog mother case but it's only 48 mm deep. I now wonder if it would have been okay. confused

They all fit into the MN skiff okay and although I haven't measured I don't think there's much room to spare. 10mm at most I reckon. The usable depth could be less than quoted for by MN too.

I do wonder if the depth quoted by Roland is for the whole module, from the pots and sliders down. It would make sense as it doesn't specify and they are not all that deep, as your photo illustrates.


I don't know how to do it properly. I should have explained my photo better, its the VCF, wasn't sure that it was going to fit but does easily. It's about 40mm from the top of the face plate to the bottom of the power header. When I looked at the photos, with the 2 boards, didn't think that they'd be 58mm.
Norgatron
realtrance wrote:
Norgatron wrote:


Other's may disagree but I think the sound of the VCO and VCF are far more important than than the VCA in terms of the Roland sound.


Tony from MakeNoise recently made a very plausible argument that the style and quality of the envelope, particularly the attack phase, is as important if not more important than the filter, for creating characterful sound.

I would tend to agree. There was much discussion many years ago when the Andromeda A6 was released over whether or not its envelopes were "snappy" enough to capture certain types of sounds. At the time, I thought this was a bit overkill OCD, but now with more experience I feel otherwise. Alesis listened enough to add a system update early on that expanded the range of envelope "speeds" in the process generator. The results while subtle are striking.

If you think about the history and science of electronic sound synthesis, you can see why: be it Strawn's early research on FM, or Roland's later combination approach to hybrid digital/analogue in the D50 (the foundation architecturally for everything they've done since, really), much study has been made around the microarticulations that occur during the initial attack phase of any instrument's sound, electronic or not electronic. Some think this is the most important distinguishing factor in giving the ear indicators as to what type of musical sound it is hearing.

More important if the goal is emulation of other instruments, but that knowledge is broadly applicable.

This thus does indeed, then, make the VCA a critical factor in the signature of the sound.

I would assume Malekko/Roland would not have been ignorant of this fact in the creation of the 540, and would therefore argue that it's an important part of what is characteristic in the sound of the System 500 stuff.

All of the above hopefully completely obvious to many here, but perhaps of interest and worth further thought for others.


Well, I don't know exactly what Tony said but it's going to play a part, sure. Over the years though people have generally been talking about filters more than envelopes in terms of emulation.

For the VCA, I still think that because it's primarily there to change the amplitude not the timbre of the sound it won't have anywhere near as much impact on the timbre as the oscillators and filters. Unless it's deliberately designed to add colour in overdrive or or distortion, in which case it's not really 'just a VCA'.

That's not to say that VCAs and envelopes don't have different characters. If you want to emulate an entire synth or system, like the 100m then you can't ignore their design; of course not.

However, I find it hard to believe that using the 540 envelope or 530 VCA with, for example, the Moog Mother32 VCO And VCF, or vice versa, would have anywhere near as much impact on the character of the sound as the timbre parts do.

To be plain, if I want a more Moog-y or Korg-y sound I'll be reaching for the filter and osc's first. Maybe it is ignorance but I'm not persuaded that the other components are as important.

Maybe in some circumstances though. As you say the sought after 'snappiness' comes up time and time again. But that is one only class of envelope shape. If you narrow your emulation needs down to something that is characteristic of only one type of envelope then I will concede that you need that envelope probably more than the other components. But you can take that further and emulate a whole synth and a particular sound it makes by the same token.
tb-303 emulation is a whole industry of it's own because the filter response is only a part of the sound and isolation it's probably not the majority or what makes it sound that way it does. Except without it you are never going to get near your emulation but with it you might.
realtrance
Right and to be clear, this is more about the envelope than about the amp; I was mainly thinking in response to the question of whether the 540 matters in the search to capture "System 100/700" characteristics. I'd say it does, but agree it matters far less than the oscillators or filters.
kwaidan
Norgatron wrote:
Note sure why SC isn't working seriously, i just don't get it


But here's the linky

https://soundcloud.com/steven-norgate/duophonic-system-500-by-norgatro n


The filters really sound nice and powerful. In the meantime, I went with a couple of Saras, but now, I'm starting to regret my decision. I haven't gotten them yet, so who knows . . . Just when you think you've made your last purchase, something else pops up!

I also enjoyed the BOC passages.

Thanks for the demo!
Norgatron
kwaidan wrote:
Norgatron wrote:
Note sure why SC isn't working seriously, i just don't get it


But here's the linky

https://soundcloud.com/steven-norgate/duophonic-system-500-by-norgatro n


The filters really sound nice and powerful. In the meantime, I went with a couple of Saras, but now, I'm starting to regret my decision. I haven't gotten them yet, so who knows . . . Just when you think you've made your last purchase, something else pops up!

I also enjoyed the BOC passages.

Thanks for the demo!


It was a pleasure. I've tried it with a chorus from the 572's audio delay as well now. It was quite effective (accidental pun, cheers!) but I think I need to do a bit more tweaking to get it sounding better.
You've got a tough choice there as what you gain with one you lose with another.
Norgatron
By the way it seems the phaser has 6 stages isn not (cannot be) 5-stage as stated by Roland.

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=165339&highlight=


Posting here for reference and in case anyone has an explanation.
Roy72
Tried to find this through a search, but are the FM mod inputs on the VCO linear or exponential?
risome
Just received my 512 VCO from analogue haven (thanks Shawn) and its as sweet as i expected.Still a big wait time for stock here in Australia but shipping in from The States was a breeze Miley Cyrus
Nightly Closures
Roy72 wrote:
Tried to find this through a search, but are the FM mod inputs on the VCO linear or exponential?


They seem to be linear. However, I could very well be wrong.
Tom_1970
Finally received my System-500 today.
Norgatron
Tom_1970 wrote:
Finally received my System-500 today.

applause
Tom_1970
Thanks. wink

Having great fun with it.
Since these ar my first moves into modular I can't compare it to other Roland modulars from the past or other Eurorack stuff, but it's as fun as I expected it to be after watching "I dream of wires".

My system is now 3 rows of 84 HP.
1. System-1m
2. System-500 + Doepfer buffered multiple
3. Demora

I'm awating a Waldorf KB37, but until it arrives I use a MiniBrute as a controller.
Val
I do not see these modules often in racks, why?
is that because of the poor distributor supplying? I've read that there were stocks problems

These are good for the price. The 530 dual vca with three audio inputs and three mod inputs ? Impressive. Sure it's not dc coupled but still.
jicamasalad
Val wrote:
I do not see these modules often in racks, why?
is that because of the poor distributor supplying? I've read that there were stocks problems.


I agree, I see these modules less than I would expect, but I've assumed that's because of the supply issues - it is still difficult to simply place an order and get one in your hands. That aside, I love my System 500 - have been using it on all sorts of projects since last December - the sounds are fantastic and I think overall the design, aesthetics and build quality are great for the price. I am holding two spaces in my rack in the hopes that they will release a "510" module which would recreate the System 100m 110, which was a single voice VCO/VCF/VCA in one module.

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/307713

Couldn't be happier with my System 500 - thanks to Josh, Roland and Malekko for this great synth!
Norgatron
Val wrote:
I do not see these modules often in racks, why?
is that because of the poor distributor supplying? I've read that there were stocks problems

These are good for the price. The 530 dual vca with three audio inputs and three mod inputs ? Impressive. Sure it's not dc coupled but still.


Word on the street is that they massively underestimated demand. That was my experience for sure I suspect they have messed up a bit by launching without enough stock and then people just moved on. If the stock is there now they need a relaunch or something.

Who knows though. They are out there and there's plenty of love from people who've got them (delay moans accepted).

Maybe these are the real boutique items. Short runs, low stock.
Sleipnir
Got a 530 yesterday. applause
Because some asked (and I was also curious), the op amps are 4558s.
So definitely leaning more vintage than clean.
Haven't had a chance to play with it much, but love the mixers. Ability to do some epic AM there. nanners
Aiyn Zahev
Just got mine today. I'm blown away. I'm not new to synths but these are my first Euro modules.

The build on these is better than I expected from some of the comments I've read. As I said I've had no experience with Euro before but these do feel really nicely made. Cold, heavy metal. Knobs feel really solid, even the little switches which I thought looked flimsy in pictures. The faders are wobbly from side-to-side but in use it's not even noticeable to me.

I could tell with those faders these were not going to be super precise but that are not at all as fiddly as I imagined. I thought I'd dislike the small form factor but once I got them up and running and I heard the sound I didn't think about it, I just had immense fun and lost track of everything else.

As for sound, I've never heard anything this good in my studio before. Never. It's blown my mind that I've been into synths this long and never heard anything on this level in person. It's rich and smooth, and the bass, holy god. I love the Roland sound and this filter is perfect. You can back off the input and get a clean sound, but you can also push the input and it starts to distort in an awesome way.

The LFO is much slower than I expected but I notice it did extend higher when modulated. I just need a DC offset to properly test it out.

I'm really keen on getting the Sea Devils as well soon and I'm already considering getting a very clean modern VCA as I'm curious to hear what it would sound like.

All that said, I am concerned that when I get modules with bigger more spacious controls I might prefer them and start to find the System 500 cramped. That would be a shame, right now it's hard to imagine them falling out of favour. I'm extremely pleased.



ryjo
I love my system 500. My only good question is.... will Roland add anything else to it ??? A sequencer or maybe another delay / analogue effect. I'm thinking of a metropolis as it's based on an old roland sequencer. Anyone out there in the know ? Dead Banana

Ryjo
moremagic
ryjo wrote:
I love my system 500. My only good question is.... will Roland add anything else to it ??? A sequencer or maybe another delay / analogue effect. I'm thinking of a metropolis as it's based on an old roland sequencer. Anyone out there in the know ? Dead Banana

Ryjo
the metropolis is actually based on a diy module some dude made when he got tired of the system 100m sequencer, so that particular one is liable to remain a pipe dream
roland have always been really east coast, and theyve been all about reissues, so maybe theyll put out a 101 osc or a 303 filter or an 808 bd module. then again, if you get enough duplicates of the modules already out you should be o k to cover most of the types of sounds of roland analog synthesis, even if the exact timbre is different.

not that im in the know Miley Cyrus but malekko have dropped a few r&d intensive modules of their own lately so it might be a little while before they put together a new roland one
Aiyn Zahev
Some sounds! As the pic shows just 4 Roland Modules. Sequenced by Beatstep and delay added later in DAW.

[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/296108756" params="color=ff5500&inverse=false&auto_play=false&show_user=true" width="100%" height="20" iframe="true" /]
MindMachine
edit for duplicatious
MindMachine
Nice tune BTW.
Aiyn Zahev
MindMachine wrote:
Nice tune BTW.


Thanks, and thanks for your help too!

Really didn't know if I'd be happy with the small and dense layout but I'm really glad I started with these modules, they are pretty feature rich while being quite simple at the same time. I love how much I can do with just these 4 so far. Although I just took delivery of an Expert Sleepers ES3 today! screaming goo yo
Fiddlestickz
ryjo wrote:
I love my system 500. My only good question is.... will Roland add anything else to it ??? A sequencer or maybe another delay / analogue effect. I'm thinking of a metropolis as it's based on an old roland sequencer. Anyone out there in the know ? Dead Banana

Ryjo


I've been wondering for a while now if Roland will branch out and do some crazier stuff instead keeping safe with this older type modular, now that the 500 is out perhaps they can bring the Aria Modules into euro proper in some way shape or form..?
ericxnelson
This was the synth that got me into modular and so far I'm really happy with it as well as the rest of the things I've been finding since putting this together.

I'm curious what have been some of the most complimentary modules in your guys' setups with the 500?

While I was waiting for modules to arrive I ended up piecing together a minimod system as well, and found them to be very different in terms of modulation sources, sound, and general design.
Tom_1970
System-500 was also my first Eurorack stuff, but before I got into Eurorack I bought a Doepfer Dark Energy and Dark Time.
The experiences I got with these and the movie 'I dream of wires' dragged me into Eurorack.
When the System-500 was announced I decided that would be a great starting point for a modular system.

Besides the System-500 I also have a System-1m, Demora and a KB37 which I am filling with the Waldorf modules.
Today I can collect the CMP1 to fit besides the NW1 and DVCA1.
I am still awaiting the MOD1 module, but the system as it is now, together with the Dark Time+Energy is already great fun. Also the TB-03 is a welcome addition when it comes to sequencing.

In the coming year I plan to buy a Mantis case and fill it over time with modules. On the moment I think the Mutable modules are very interesting.
benski
ericxnelson wrote:

I'm curious what have been some of the most complimentary modules in your guys' setups with the 500?


The System 500 was my intro into modular. I've started to expand.
The next modules you'd want would probably be mostly utility
1) MIDI->CV, a CV sequencer, or CV-capable controller.
2) A multiple. The two envelope gate inputs are not normaled together.
3) Sample and Hold
4) Noise
Richjk7
benski wrote:
ericxnelson wrote:

I'm curious what have been some of the most complimentary modules in your guys' setups with the 500?


The System 500 was my intro into modular. I've started to expand.
The next modules you'd want would probably be mostly utility
1) MIDI->CV, a CV sequencer, or CV-capable controller.
2) A multiple. The two envelope gate inputs are not normaled together.
3) Sample and Hold
4) Noise


I added the malekko noise and buff mult to the roland case. It technically shouldnt fit because it adds up to 85 hp but it does in mine.
Sleipnir
ericxnelson wrote:
I'm curious what have been some of the most complimentary modules in your guys' setups with the 500?

Just an FYI for people integrating 500 modules (the 530 VCA in particular) with others:
The 530 VCA requires 10v to fully open in linear mode (not mentioned anywhere but the downloadable spec sheet). Most euro envelope/function generators put out 5-7v. That's enough to open in exp mode, but then of course you get different curves. waah
The only eg's I've confirmed put out 10v are Maths (but not Function), the Pittsburgh ADSR, and Circuit Abbey ADSR jr (with the rear jumper set to 10v). I now have my 530 perma patched to a pair of ADSR jr's.

You would run into the opposite issue using a Roland EG with most other VCAs (e.g., the Intellijel uVCA fully opens at 5v, so will massively distort by 10v).

Obviously not a problem if you keep it in the family, just hoping to alleviate any surprises.
benski
Sleipnir wrote:
The 530 VCA requires 10v to fully open in linear mode (not mentioned anywhere but the downloadable spec sheet).

This is really helpful, thanks!
BlackDoors
[quote="Sleipnir"]
ericxnelson wrote:

The 530 VCA requires 10v to fully open in linear mode (not mentioned anywhere but the downloadable spec sheet).

Obviously not a problem if you keep it in the family, just hoping to alleviate any surprises.


Thanks for the heads-up here, I was considering moving into system 500 starting with the VCF and VCA (really like the range of inputs on the VCA!) but I might wait till I can have the EG too (and enough space....). I'll check out intellijel dual VCA output voltage when I get a chance (I have that as well as a maths).
Sleipnir
BlackDoors wrote:
Sleipnir wrote:

The 530 VCA requires 10v to fully open in linear mode (not mentioned anywhere but the downloadable spec sheet).

Obviously not a problem if you keep it in the family, just hoping to alleviate any surprises.


Thanks for the heads-up here, I was considering moving into system 500 starting with the VCF and VCA (really like the range of inputs on the VCA!) but I might wait till I can have the EG too (and enough space....). I'll check out intellijel dual VCA output voltage when I get a chance (I have that as well as a maths).

The IJ Dual Envelope puts out ~7.5v cry
(Assumed that's what you meant)
BlackDoors
Sleipnir wrote:
BlackDoors wrote:
Sleipnir wrote:

The 530 VCA requires 10v to fully open in linear mode (not mentioned anywhere but the downloadable spec sheet).

Obviously not a problem if you keep it in the family, just hoping to alleviate any surprises.


Thanks for the heads-up here, I was considering moving into system 500 starting with the VCF and VCA (really like the range of inputs on the VCA!) but I might wait till I can have the EG too (and enough space....). I'll check out intellijel dual VCA output voltage when I get a chance (I have that as well as a maths).

The IJ Dual Envelope puts out ~7.5v cry
(Assumed that's what you meant)


Yes, exactly (not in front of system right now, so I was going to check later). Very perceptive of you to guess the IJ dual EG from my garbled mix-description! Thanks for saving me the bother, good to know the Roland VCO 's fully usable with maths anyway.

John
Aiyn Zahev
Sorry everyone, at first I was quite happy to finally be able to share some video of the System 500, then I realize I pretty much posted this audio in the soundcloud above, but still it's probably nicer to see what's going on. I can't wait though to do some more proper videos of this thing as I have some more supporting modules now too.

duncanperson
I'm still really liking my 512 and 521, initially i was drawn to the vco because it seemed like a great basic setup, plus i think the malekko stuff is great, so it was an easy choice. The tracking is perfect, and square waves especially sounds good.

The 521 is very nice, i don't really need two yet but have occasionally used both at once. A few things, with the 512 as the input source to the filter mixer, if there are 2 or more sources you get distortion at about 60% on the faders, so for clean signals you can only mix with the lower half of the faders. the clean signal on the filter is great, pretty squelchy, but there is noticeable bass loss when the resonance is turned up a lot on low notes.

Overall as a pair they sound really great, I am very tempted for a second 512. Compared to an SH-101, the system 500 is a slightly darker and growly, it doesnt quite get as bright as the 101, but i think thats fair since they were aiming for system 100m territory. Proper attenuators on every input is a feature i really like.
Aiyn Zahev
Aiyn Zahev
I did a little overview and demo of the 540 module
Eichburger
[quote="BlackDoors"]
Sleipnir wrote:
ericxnelson wrote:

The 530 VCA requires 10v to fully open in linear mode (not mentioned anywhere but the downloadable spec sheet).

Obviously not a problem if you keep it in the family, just hoping to alleviate any surprises.


Thanks for the heads-up here, I was considering moving into system 500 starting with the VCF and VCA (really like the range of inputs on the VCA!) but I might wait till I can have the EG too (and enough space....). I'll check out intellijel dual VCA output voltage when I get a chance (I have that as well as a maths).


I was wondering why I was getting such low output but I'm still a bit confused. My 540 envelope is only putting out 7.2v with the sustain at max. With the 530 VCA on Exp mode the output level is very low. The output actually goes higher if I switch to linear mode??

Is all of that consistent for other users?
risome
Added the VCO VCF and ADSR/LFO modules to my case
couldn't be happier to have the genuine Roland sound to draw on.
Lovely Miley Cyrus
Biff
[quote="Eichburger"]
BlackDoors wrote:
Sleipnir wrote:
ericxnelson wrote:

The 530 VCA requires 10v to fully open in linear mode (not mentioned anywhere but the downloadable spec sheet).

Obviously not a problem if you keep it in the family, just hoping to alleviate any surprises.


Thanks for the heads-up here, I was considering moving into system 500 starting with the VCF and VCA (really like the range of inputs on the VCA!) but I might wait till I can have the EG too (and enough space....). I'll check out intellijel dual VCA output voltage when I get a chance (I have that as well as a maths).


I was wondering why I was getting such low output but I'm still a bit confused. My 540 envelope is only putting out 7.2v with the sustain at max. With the 530 VCA on Exp mode the output level is very low. The output actually goes higher if I switch to linear mode??

Is all of that consistent for other users?


I think it's normal. They recommend setting the output to 1 rather than 0 in exp mode, rather odd, but still inaudible even though you're letting sound through.

Also the Doepfer amp module (A-183-3) is great for these modules to boost signals for using other things or attenuate. I have my system 500 next to an MS-20m, which was great because it gave me time on getting the 540 and not being w/o envelopes and lfos.
Eichburger
[quote="Biff"]
Eichburger wrote:
BlackDoors wrote:
Sleipnir wrote:
ericxnelson wrote:

The 530 VCA requires 10v to fully open in linear mode (not mentioned anywhere but the downloadable spec sheet).

Obviously not a problem if you keep it in the family, just hoping to alleviate any surprises.


Thanks for the heads-up here, I was considering moving into system 500 starting with the VCF and VCA (really like the range of inputs on the VCA!) but I might wait till I can have the EG too (and enough space....). I'll check out intellijel dual VCA output voltage when I get a chance (I have that as well as a maths).


I was wondering why I was getting such low output but I'm still a bit confused. My 540 envelope is only putting out 7.2v with the sustain at max. With the 530 VCA on Exp mode the output level is very low. The output actually goes higher if I switch to linear mode??

Is all of that consistent for other users?


I think it's normal. They recommend setting the output to 1 rather than 0 in exp mode, rather odd, but still inaudible even though you're letting sound through.

Also the Doepfer amp module (A-183-3) is great for these modules to boost signals for using other things or attenuate. I have my system 500 next to an MS-20m, which was great because it gave me time on getting the 540 and not being w/o envelopes and lfos.


Thanks Biff. It's reassuring to know mine are working normally. Certainly not a problem to deal with. I have been multing the envelope across two VCA control inputs if I want a higher amplitude.
rsaintjohn
Aiyn Zahev wrote:
I did a little overview and demo of the 540 module


A thumbs-up on the video on YouTube isn't enough, I really want to thank you for taking the time to do this!
Aiyn Zahev
rsaintjohn wrote:
Aiyn Zahev wrote:
I did a little overview and demo of the 540 module


A thumbs-up on the video on YouTube isn't enough, I really want to thank you for taking the time to do this!


Thank you, I really appreciate that. I'm going to get to the filters next probably, I'm just waiting on a couple of supporting modules, a Metropolis being one of them!
Aiyn Zahev
I just put up a video of the 521 VCF with lots of demo audio

TemplarK
May I ask any Roland 530 owners how exactly the sum outputs work,

My question really is are the sums modulated by both sets of CVs?

Would i only need to send one envelope to control all 6 inputs if I use the SUM?

How exactly does this part work thanks?>
jicamasalad
TemplarK wrote:
May I ask any Roland 530 owners how exactly the sum outputs work,

My question really is are the sums modulated by both sets of CVs?

Would i only need to send one envelope to control all 6 inputs if I use the SUM?

How exactly does this part work thanks?>


hi there:

think of it as two identical VCAs, each with three modulation sources
so you can mix signals from what we might call inputs a1, a2 and a3 with signals from b1, b2 and b3 and get all at the sum output, but modulation to the "a" VCA will only affect signals on the "a" inputs - "b" signals would be unmodulated (only "mixed" via the input faders) at the sum output

modulation sources ARE mixed within each VCA, and this produces great results, as i'm sure you're aware

you would need to send the same modulation signal(s) to modulation inputs on both the "a" and "b" sides to get the result you describe

hope this helps!

- ks
WaveRider
Aiyn Zahev wrote:
I just put up a video of the 521 VCF with lots of demo audio



great demo, it really sounds like vintage Roland overall a very good filter, tough to pass up! the kit must be very nice too. I bought most of my modular a few years ago but if I would be starting now I would start with this Roland kit.... tasty
bgcriswell
This is a little something I threw together with my system500 this morning.

http://www.instagram.com/p/BUknEHDBvHU
Ciderfeks
Hello MW'ers. My first post here on MW but I've been following this thread for some time and now I've finally taken the plunge and got myself an S500 complete set. It's my first modular system and first step down the Eurorack rabbit hole too.

So having spent a week or so with it my first impressions are that I really like the System 500 - it sounds fantastic and over all I'm very happy with it. I hope it will make an excellent centre piece for whatever modules I inevitably end up adding!

There are a couple of minor niggles - some of which seem like odd design decisions rather than issues with the modules (the nasty micro power switch on the back of the case which is all but unreachable in most set-up situations and that undersized blanking plate just looks odd to me) and other things that have been well documented here like the VCO range knob blipping as you move through the octaves, but no big deal. As one other poster here mentioned before me I also find that when the envelopes are in cycle mode, moving to higher attack and/or decay settings can cause the cycle to stop, requiring a manual re-trigger but I never found out if this is expected behaviour or not. Any further thoughts on this? One thing I haven't heard anyone else mention is that the VCO's go out of tune with each other if they are set more than two range intervals apart - anyone else get this? Not that it doesn't sound great anyway with a bit of detuning and its easily remedied with the fine tune controls of course.

Finally another quick question for you guys before this post turns into an epic - does anyone know what is the safe upper limits are for CV and Ext gate input voltages? I've successfully used a Devilfish TB-303 and an old Kenton Pro-2 for external control but recently read somewhere that higher CV/gate voltages could cause problems - is that true? The Kenton outputs the highest gate at +15v for on, with the TB putting out +12v. The TB also has available an accent output voltage of +6v which would be nice to use to modulate the S500 filter, but is this too hot for a standard CV?

Cheers guys.
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