After reading the RIP thread a few times and wanting what I could only call stronger/weightier output I'm interested in one of the high end transformer outputs.
Mannequins RIP
ADDAC 800
Vermona TAI - 4
I chatted to a live audio engineer who I occasionally work alongside today and he said I'd probably be interested in a high quality tube DI and recommended the Avalon U5.
Haven't spent much on modules this year, kinda happy exploring with what I have. I think I'd like to invest in the recording process.
Has anyone experience with any of the above modules?
Transformer vs tube with Euro?
Keen to hear any opinions.
High end output/ quality DI
Moderators: Kent, lisa, luketeaford, Joe.
I wouldn't go for the U5 with modular, it has too much of a distinct sonic signature that you might not want on everything you do with your modular.
I went through MANY high end DI's back when I was primarily a bass player (U5, REDDI, Countryman, J48, JDI).
In my opinion, you want something that will allow the sonics you create to aurally shine through in their own respect. Plus, with modular being line level, you really don't need an active DI.
I use a JD6 for my modular and all other synths. It's got great transformers and doesn't impart too different of a sonic signature on the sound.
I would recommend either that, a JDI duplex or JDI...depending on how many channels you need.
I went through MANY high end DI's back when I was primarily a bass player (U5, REDDI, Countryman, J48, JDI).
In my opinion, you want something that will allow the sonics you create to aurally shine through in their own respect. Plus, with modular being line level, you really don't need an active DI.
I use a JD6 for my modular and all other synths. It's got great transformers and doesn't impart too different of a sonic signature on the sound.
I would recommend either that, a JDI duplex or JDI...depending on how many channels you need.
I am sure someone on here could speak more accurately about the audible effects of various transformers, but to me the JD6 does not noticeably alter the sound (freq content) of the signal. It does balance it and eliminate ground noise before heading into a preamp.
You can see the specs of the Radial here http://www.radialeng.com/jdistereo-specs.php
If you are after color, preamps/eqs/compressors are what you are after.
DI's are just for taking a unabalanced signal and converting it to balanced with a transformer. I do notice a difference in noise floor when using my DI vs going straight into the HI-Z inputs on my interface (Apogee Ensemble TB).
The U5 you mentioned has an passive filter EQ section. (6 pos tone bank), plus tubes definitely impart a saturation on the signal. Good for some stuff, I just think you're better off with something a bit cleaner as a always on DI.
So you can chose whether you want the transformers in your case (with the modules above), or after you modular in the signal chain. The latter is a little for flexible since you could use that DI with any other instruments you might have.
You can see the specs of the Radial here http://www.radialeng.com/jdistereo-specs.php
If you are after color, preamps/eqs/compressors are what you are after.
DI's are just for taking a unabalanced signal and converting it to balanced with a transformer. I do notice a difference in noise floor when using my DI vs going straight into the HI-Z inputs on my interface (Apogee Ensemble TB).
The U5 you mentioned has an passive filter EQ section. (6 pos tone bank), plus tubes definitely impart a saturation on the signal. Good for some stuff, I just think you're better off with something a bit cleaner as a always on DI.
So you can chose whether you want the transformers in your case (with the modules above), or after you modular in the signal chain. The latter is a little for flexible since you could use that DI with any other instruments you might have.
+1 JDI duplex. always good to have one even if you graduate to a super heavy duty DI later on. i've had one for a long time because i hate crafting my sound hours on end in the studio to roll up to the venue and use some homemade duck-tape DI...im always attracted by saturation like RIP advertises with offset voltages, but i wouldn't want to waste HP on an in-the-box DI.
keep in mind even if you have RIP or an output module, theres a huge chance the soundguy is going to want to use a DI anyway...
keep in mind even if you have RIP or an output module, theres a huge chance the soundguy is going to want to use a DI anyway...
You are correct, I was confusing the Reddi and U5. It's been a while since I've used either!Inflexus wrote:I think the Avalon U5 has no tubes in it. Only the VT series have tubes.
At any rate, the U5 definitely has a distinct sonic signature. Although I have never directly a/b'd it filters off with something more vanilla/standard.
Vermona TAIs are very good. The best sound quality outs I have found in modular.
Never tried the RIP but judging from the mangrove and sisters I guess it might not be the best sound.
For people using the DIs out of the rack, I wonder how you connect the out from the modular to it. Direct from the vca/mixer to the DI via a phono-pin converter?
Never tried the RIP but judging from the mangrove and sisters I guess it might not be the best sound.
For people using the DIs out of the rack, I wonder how you connect the out from the modular to it. Direct from the vca/mixer to the DI via a phono-pin converter?
I have the ADDAC 800X and I can confirm that it's a wonderful module. It comes with the option of selecting AC or DC coupling, and the transformers are of an extremely high quality - similar to Jensens or similar high-end output transformers for pro gear.
I'd think anything beyond this would be overkill for modular (and heck, it's still probably overkill).
I'd think anything beyond this would be overkill for modular (and heck, it's still probably overkill).
So anyone had experience with the Vermona?
They seem to build solid gear. It's available in my country (albeit the other side), which means I won't have to pay the crazy shipping costs that come with purchasing from overseas for us.
The JDI duplex looks nice too, but I'm being drawn towards having somthing in my system atm.
They seem to build solid gear. It's available in my country (albeit the other side), which means I won't have to pay the crazy shipping costs that come with purchasing from overseas for us.
The JDI duplex looks nice too, but I'm being drawn towards having somthing in my system atm.
The effects are subtle, but its the final output, and you dont want to hurt your signal at all here. You dont ever want to think about the DI, it should be transparent ideally.
Lots of sound details are subtle, but if you combine subtlely poor quality outputs of poor quality gear then into a subtlely poor DI, mixer, PA ect... It starts to add up and can make a difference once amplified and combine with poor room acoustics.
If you ever get the chance, A/B a couple DIs on a large PA and you might be surprised.
How i see it... Its your signal, and you work hard for it, so i wouldnt cheap out on your mixer or DI.
Lots of sound details are subtle, but if you combine subtlely poor quality outputs of poor quality gear then into a subtlely poor DI, mixer, PA ect... It starts to add up and can make a difference once amplified and combine with poor room acoustics.
If you ever get the chance, A/B a couple DIs on a large PA and you might be surprised.
How i see it... Its your signal, and you work hard for it, so i wouldnt cheap out on your mixer or DI.
There is no good reason for a DI. By dropping levels down to those of a mic/instrument, the required gain to bring it back up to line level will introduce unnecessary signal to noise. Maybe that's no issue at home but over a PA or going to mastering you are going to pay for that mistake.
If you want galvanic isolation then use a 1:1 turns ratio transformer , 600 ohm is the appropriate value for a TF on the output.
Given the costs involved for transformers with neutral phase response and wide frequency range (cheap ones roll off low frequencies), I would say it is better to use an impedance balanced output stage with a good opamp that can drive a long cable. And address noise and hum issues at the root such as a clean power supply and balancing if possible.
If you want galvanic isolation then use a 1:1 turns ratio transformer , 600 ohm is the appropriate value for a TF on the output.
Given the costs involved for transformers with neutral phase response and wide frequency range (cheap ones roll off low frequencies), I would say it is better to use an impedance balanced output stage with a good opamp that can drive a long cable. And address noise and hum issues at the root such as a clean power supply and balancing if possible.
For sure! I don't know if it would work for EVERY type of sound but for percussion sounds and mid bass it's pretty nice (when driving the transformer is what I mean). You could most definitely keep a DI in the signal path and with ideal settings you shouldn't really get any distortion, just maybe a slight coloration of the sound. I use the JDI mainly for distortion purposes though and don't have it in my signal path all the time but it does seem to give more headroom as well, even when I'm using it and not driving the signal.damase wrote:You get s desireable distortion w jdi? Interesting ... Must try
The reason for a di is for the venue. They will run your sound through s DI and through a mixin desk every time. So get a good one
I AM THAT I AM
It's an outdated practice from the days where stage devices were mic and instrument level.damase wrote: The reason for a di is for the venue. They will run your sound through a DI and through a mixing desk every time. So get a good one
If the stage engineer team are properly educated they will agree that you don't need to DI. If they are not and you wish to represent your work properly then come prepared and politely suggest the correct alternative.
I am aware of that. It is, however, the quickest and easiest way if (which is very likely in such situations) there is a FOH mixer with mic pres. It's small, passive, easy to take with you. I've never had a live guy give me anything remotely as good as a JDI, and definitely never a Redbox or something similar...