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STG Graphic Sequencer Clock Division via DIY ?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> STG Soundlabs  
Author STG Graphic Sequencer Clock Division via DIY ?
Paranormal Patroler
Hello,

I've been wondering, is it possible to make a DIY clock input for the STG Sequencer that will take advantage of the inert division capabilities of the module? I honestly don't want to use sync24, and I don't want to have to buy a Time Buffer.

Worst case scenario I'd accept making a small "expander" with a clock input on which I'd plug 3-4 Graphic Sequencers. But separate clocks for each module would be best as almost exclusively clock them separately.

For the divisions to work the module is expecting an incoming clock on the back side's Clock Bus In. So, wouldn't it be possible to somehow get the clock from the front panel Shift Input to the correct pin on the Clock Bus In on the back, and thus have the division switches work? seriously, i just don't get it

Mr Suit, I presume you had your reasons for not allowing the division to work via the Shift Input right away, but I would very much appreciate your help to overcome this. This is very important for me as I plan to get a couple more Graphic Sequencers and I honestly can't stand not being able to use that switch on an otherwise perfect module! very frustrating
Paranormal Patroler
Edited for clarity. Mr. Green
suitandtieguy
Summary: "I don't want to use Sync 24, but I want to use Sync 24."

it's just a pulse train and a run/stop gate, with 5V pulses. you can probably breadboard this in an hour or two. i made a Sync 24 master clock with a schmidt trigger chip that i threw in a mini-skiff with a Trigger Sequencer for the Moog booth at NAMM last year, and I'm not really good at breadboarding.

your module should have came with a cable. here's the pinout:

pin 1: ground
pin 2: 24 ppq clock
pin 3: run gate

the reason the switch doesn't work with the shift input is because it's labeled with musical values which have no meaning when dealing with general gates fed into the shift input. when i use the shift input the triggers are anything but periodic (i use trigger sequencers to advance other sequencers in a rhythmic fashion.)

I literally do not understand why some people are so averse to this. dance music people have been using sync 24 since the 80s and it is rock solid. MIDI is not.
Paranormal Patroler
suitandtieguy wrote:
Summary: "I don't want to use Sync 24, but I want to use Sync 24."

[...]

I literally do not understand why some people are so averse to this. dance music people have been using sync 24 since the 80s and it is rock solid. MIDI is not.


To counter that I honestly don't see how you'd expect everyone to adhere to Sync24 as an option when using a modular system. Analog clock is already there inside the modular; why use external clocks or force someone to get the modular clock out of the system, into a device that will multiply it by 24 and have it re-enter the case via an additional module?

suitandtieguy wrote:
the reason the switch doesn't work with the shift input is because it's labeled with musical values which have no meaning when dealing with general gates fed into the shift input. when i use the shift input the triggers are anything but periodic (i use trigger sequencers to advance other sequencers in a rhythmic fashion.).


You have most graciously provided a very playable division option and then you went ahead and restricted it. You make a distinction between Shift Input and Clocked Input (on the back side) and it's somewhat logical, but I insist that it would be very musical and very playable to be able to divide the "general gates [that get] fed into the shift input", especially since you ingeniously have said change occur only after the sequence has run one cycle of the steps.

Don't take this the wrong way my good sir. The GS is by far my favorite sequencer (and I've tried most of the ones available in Euro). It's just that it has a couple of drawbacks which are small and thus drive me crazy sometimes, this being one of them. You're 90% there with this design.

I'll try the DIY option, thank you.
Paranormal Patroler
Edited previous post because I can't express myself via stupid smart phones. Thank you.

PS: MIDI is also rock solid nowadays by the way.
EMwhite
If you have a Time Buffer but just don't want to have Sync24 in your system, you can rig up an external clock source 'into' the buffer at the Sync24 3 pin MTA.

If you don't have and don't want a Time Buffer, you can do the same, I'm sure, but will have to be sure that you've got enough push to drive n number of MiniVolt/MiniTrig-Stores.

I ran my TimeBuffer from Pamela's Workout and it worked great. My TimeBuffer (which I just sold to make way for a MOS-LAB 960 [someday]) had 1/4" inputs on it which Suit added for me when he built it. Again, useless if you don't have or don't want TimeBuffer. At the time of my order, I though I would have an Expert Sleepers setup and intended on using the 1/4" inputs for this. Then I found my audio interface wasn't usable and bagged the idea.

It always worked well for me, even with Pam's Workout. As you mentioned, the clock divisions and the ability to 'count' from RUN are the two most powerful features of this system... well, two of the more powerful anyway.
det3
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
To counter that I honestly don't see how you'd expect everyone to adhere to Sync24 as an option when using a modular system. Analog clock is already there inside the modular; why use external clocks or force someone to get the modular clock out of the system, into a device that will multiply it by 24 and have it re-enter the case via an additional module?

[...]

You have most graciously provided a very playable division option and then you went ahead and restricted it. You make a distinction between Shift Input and Clocked Input (on the back side) and it's somewhat logical, but I insist that it would be very musical and very playable to be able to divide the "general gates [that get] fed into the shift input", especially since you ingeniously have said change occur only after the sequence has run one cycle of the steps.

Don't take this the wrong way my good sir. The GS is by far my favorite sequencer (and I've tried most of the ones available in Euro). It's just that it has a couple of drawbacks which are small and thus drive me crazy sometimes, this being one of them. You're 90% there with this design.


It's because this restriction enforces a traditional musical paradigm on the sequence. I'll let STG expound on the philosophy more, but in my perspective the talk of polyrhythms and driving sequences with modulated pulse trains sounds all well and good, but when you want to put together a traditional drum or bassline pattern at let's say, 144BPM, you have to get a specific clock module anyway (Pamela's workout etc) or just fudge it. With the Sync24 option, you have a tempo-friendly common bus for multiple modules and it specifically Plays Well With Others(tm) when interfacing outside of the modular. It also has a specific paradigm with respect to music (8th, 1/4, 16th note etc) which allows those who aren't more mathematically minded or experimental to create music that fits with their perspective.

So yes, we intentionally built this constraint into the system, but it was to allow more creativity across boundaries than someone working totally inside the box. Stravinsky put it best: "The more constraints one imposes, the more one frees one's self. And the arbitrariness of the constraint serves only to obtain precision of execution." It doesn't fit with the ideal modular dogma, but to even assume that modular synthesis has any dogma is betraying the beauty and spirit of it. :-)
Paranormal Patroler
det3 wrote:
It's because this restriction enforces a traditional musical paradigm on the sequence. I'll let STG expound on the philosophy more, but in my perspective the talk of polyrhythms and driving sequences with modulated pulse trains sounds all well and good, but when you want to put together a traditional drum or bassline pattern at let's say, 144BPM, you have to get a specific clock module anyway (Pamela's workout etc) or just fudge it. With the Sync24 option, you have a tempo-friendly common bus for multiple modules and it specifically Plays Well With Others(tm) when interfacing outside of the modular. It also has a specific paradigm with respect to music (8th, 1/4, 16th note etc) which allows those who aren't more mathematically minded or experimental to create music that fits with their perspective.

So yes, we intentionally built this constraint into the system, but it was to allow more creativity across boundaries than someone working totally inside the box. Stravinsky put it best: "The more constraints one imposes, the more one frees one's self. And the arbitrariness of the constraint serves only to obtain precision of execution." It doesn't fit with the ideal modular dogma, but to even assume that modular synthesis has any dogma is betraying the beauty and spirit of it. :-)


You do realize that by allowing for the division switch to function with the Stage Input in a similar fashion that it works with the Clock Input you expound on what you wrote above, right? In what way constraining that useful functionality does it help the user to put together a traditional pattern? Does the possibility of a division interfere with the ability of the user to use one common clock source, mult it and plug it to all the sequencers in the system? And if so why allow it with Synch24 in the first place? Wouldn't it be simpler to force the user to use 24ppqn and not give the option of divisions?

Please don't quote Stravinsky on me. Mr. Green The openness and mind-boggling possibility of an empty music score cannot possible be compared to being able to divide the timing of a sequence on a eurorack module. Constraining oneself is a sanitary road that makes you work your best when the possibilities are endless. Allowing for a functionality that is already there but somewhat locked away, is not exactly a push to the creative direction. In any case, I do understand that you both made a choice and it's not worth fussing about it at all. Obviously the module is what it is and since there is a DIY option for those inclined to make one, the case is closed.

I appreciate your time, design choices and creative output. It is one of my all-time favourite modules and this is the reason of me making inquires about what functionality is hidden behind the panel. Hopefully I might find a workaround to the call of the division switch.
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