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C-L voltage levels and pre-journey info collection
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Ciat-Lonbarde  
Author C-L voltage levels and pre-journey info collection
arnoux
Hi all!

I'm sure this question has being asked many times but can't actually find a proper thread, if one already exists please point me there and accept my apology.

What's the voltage range in C-L instruments? Pulses ins and outs? CV ins and outs?

What other banana systems do you find/think they interconnect flowlessly?

I'm now an euro user but now deciding if swap to something banana like a small Serge or Easel or Kilpatrick + Plumy + Coco. (What is driving me mad in euro is the voltage inconsistency so I'd like to have a consisten flow of voltage and cables format..)

Would I be able to at least sync this system of three in your experience?

Thanks in advance for your time, I guess I'll return with more questions for you mystery explorers!

Cheers!
Donderdag
Hi arnoux!

The Plumbutter2's voltage I/O specs can be found here.

The Plumbutter and Coco are a match made in Heaven, and I would definitely rank that combo first in terms of flawless interconnectivity.

As for the rest, I've successfully interfaced my Plumbutter with my eurorack and Phenol (not delved too deeply on this), of the two I'd say the eurorack is less "flawed" (depending on your system of course) as there's more scope for attenuators/inverters etc. to get the signals to match what the Plumbutter is looking for/sending out.

Can't say anything about Buchla or Serge. In fact I haven't heard of anyone interfacing either of these with the Plumbutter and would be very curious to hear how that goes!
arnoux
Donderdag thanks! Thanks for the specs link, very interesting, and wierd!

So I'm studing whatever I find, I see the green banana in the MWRS is the clock in, if I go there with a pulse from the outside world should I be able to use the Plum to get "synced" beats?
Donderdag
arnoux wrote:
Donderdag thanks! Thanks for the specs link, very interesting, and wierd!

So I'm studing whatever I find, I see the green banana in the MWRS is the clock in, if I go there with a pulse from the outside world should I be able to use the Plum to get "synced" beats?


Yup, this is the easiest way I know to get Plumbutter "synced" to external gear. MWRS doesn't control the Rolz though, so anything depending on them will still be out of sync with your clock. I've tried a few times, unsuccessfully, to plug external signals into a Rolz brown jack in an attempt to "merge" their rhythms like with two Rolz, but I don't think I had the external signal in an appropriate range for the Rolz. Now that I think about it, a red jack from MWRS to a brown on the Rolz, with the MWRS clocked externally, could work.

Another thing you could do (in theory) is take an external temporal signal into the Verso/Inverso jack of a Rolz. This wouldn't sync the Rolz but would speed it up/slow it down at a rate proportional to your external control.

I think I might try some of these ideas tonight and let you know how it goes thumbs up
arnoux
Uh ROLZ! The behaviour of that section is totally obscure to me, is the 4-roll basically a square/pulse LFO?

Thanks for your help Donderdag Guinness ftw!
Black Medicine
Generally speaking, the advice is NEVER connect external (non-CL) gear to the browns on a rollz. It's just begging for trouble, by most accounts, as the browns both receive and send CV. Just sayin'.
windspirit
You can probably clock the MWRS from an external source and then have the outputs of the shift register pinging the rollz. This way you have some semblance of sync but also the generative sillyness of the rollz.

However if this somehow makes your plumbutter go up in flames please understand that I am not responsible. I remember another user had a problem even though the external input wasn't plugged into the brown inputs directly but the PB somehow messed up their maths. I personally would be more worried about messing up the PB!

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=145918
pugix
After doing some patches into the Brown Rollz jacks (I have both P.B. and a Meng Qi Rollz 5) from Orange outputs, I've found that the rollz can lock up. Nothing was broken after a power cycle, though. Still I would recommend that the browns only be connected to each other or to other inputs, not to other outputs.

As far as patching to other modular gear, any output from Ciat-Lonbarde gear (except the brown jacks) usually has a series 10K resistor. So you can patch that into any modular input. But it will not have as much current to drive as the typical modular output with 1K or less on the output.

When patching INTO a CV input on Ciat-Lonbarde, you have to know two things. First, the input impedance is typically high, like 1M, so you won't have any problem with the modular output. BUT, CL inputs are current based, not voltage based. This means that a low impedance output 1K output from a modular will sink a lot of current, even when at zero volts. (Try patching a CL CV input to ground and you'll notice a big impact.) What I've done is to patch in a series resistor, like 10K, when driving CL CV inputs from a modular, to get better range control.
Donderdag
pugix wrote:
When patching INTO a CV input on Ciat-Lonbarde, you have to know two things. First, the input impedance is typically high, like 1M, so you won't have any problem with the modular output. BUT, CL inputs are current based, not voltage based. This means that a low impedance output 1K output from a modular will sink a lot of current, even when at zero volts. (Try patching a CL CV input to ground and you'll notice a big impact.) What I've done is to patch in a series resistor, like 10K, when driving CL CV inputs from a modular, to get better range control.


thumbs up That is really good to know, and AFAIK this is the first I've ever heard of this. Thanks Richard!
windspirit
Do you typically also use protection diodes to clip negative voltages? Im planning on making a converter box to work specifically between my euro and CL gear.
prscrptn
Has anyone experienced issues when patching between CL and Serge? hmmm.....
aethersprite
I've had great luck patching between Coco and Serge. The Coco's control voltage and audio levels seem to match perfectly with it.
arnoux
Hey thanks everybody for contributing, this thread is coming out very informative thumbs up

RNX
pugix
windspirit wrote:
Do you typically also use protection diodes to clip negative voltages? Im planning on making a converter box to work specifically between my euro and CL gear.


No. There's really no need, because negative voltages only produce a reverse current. The Brown jack pulses go negative. These are meant to be patched to trigger inputs, etc. No worries.

The only thing I know to be risky is patching some low impedance output driving INTO a Brown jack. Patching Brown jacks together, or to any input, is no problem.
arnoux
aethersprite wrote:
I've had great luck patching between Coco and Serge. The Coco's control voltage and audio levels seem to match perfectly with it.


Very interesting.

What about Buchla Easel <-> Cocoquantus? Anyone with this combo?

And more generally: is the Coco equipperd with a sort of "play" gate in? Can't get if I can have events in sync with other instruments..

Thanks again for contributing.
aethersprite
Coco does not have a "start/stop" gate in but it has a "skip" gate in to cause the sampled material to reset. It has also VCAs for input and feedback, that'll be your best bet for coaxing the coco to play along.
Black Medicine
When you lock the Feedback, the level functions as a VCA, which you can then control with the level knob, and modulate with the blue inputs in next to it, in either direction, respectively.
arnoux
ops something went wrong, double post, sorry.
arnoux
OH YES I pulled the trigger, a CocoQuantus is coming soon in my studio!

I can't find how many cables and lenght I need for the instrument, any suggestions?
I'm looking at the Mouser site but can't understand how to get the right Pomonas.

+ I need also a power supply, I have the specifications on the mail box, is it something I can buy at the electronic shop in the neighborhood?

Thanks in advance for your time!
arnoux
aethersprite wrote:
Coco does not have a "start/stop" gate in but it has a "skip" gate in to cause the sampled material to reset. It has also VCAs for input and feedback, that'll be your best bet for coaxing the coco to play along.


I'm having a lot of fun with my COCO, sound amazing, so many things to learn anyway..

I can't get the point of the SKIP jack, the sampled material reset to which point? I mean, to me it records in a loop, where's the initial point of that loop?
When I enable the recording?
What do I need then to reset to that point?

Thanks for your time!
Cobramatic
arnoux wrote:


I'm having a lot of fun with my COCO, sound amazing, so many things to learn anyway..


Arnoux - wondering if you got to test it out with The Easel, or any other Buchla (as per your earlier post question)?

I'm keen to know if the PB or Coco will interface with Buchla well - itching to take the plunge with the CL instruments!
arnoux
Cobramatic I decided to wait for the new Bugbrand so I didn't tested/interfaced CL gear with Buchla as I'm saving money for the Bug.

Not sure about the voltage levels but Cocoquantus+Easel sounds like a very cool combo.

+ check out this thread where (scrolling a bit) you can find a technique to sync loops on the Coco with a sample so you can have the Easel and a loop running togheter.
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=153409

Hope someone with more experience can help you out on the voltage topic,

F
Cobramatic
arnoux wrote:
Cobramatic I decided to wait for the new Bugbrand so I didn't tested/interfaced CL gear with Buchla as I'm saving money for the Bug.

Not sure about the voltage levels but Cocoquantus+Easel sounds like a very cool combo.

+ check out this thread where (scrolling a bit) you can find a technique to sync loops on the Coco with a sample so you can have the Easel and a loop running togheter.
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=153409

Hope someone with more experience can help you out on the voltage topic,

F


Thanks for that Arnoux - that's a cool tip on the other thread.
I searched a bit further for Buchla compatibility here on Muffs but there seems to be precious little I can find.
I found the tread on voltage outputs which suggests that there are certainly some bipolar CV's and also the Brown 'in and out' cv/triggers which could be dangerous to external equipment;
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=116667

Can anybody else chime in on Buchla compatibility? seriously, i just don't get it

I guess it would be very useful to know if a Buchla clock pulse can go into the PB green input to obtain some kind of syncing - or at least a sync 'relationship' of sorts?

Cheers!
Infinity Curve
A question for other coco2 users. Recently got a proper scope and I've been checking out the signals from the coco. I'm finding its voltage range very odd. It seems to be around 1v at bottom and peaks at around 7v
with occasional spikes a bit higher around 7.25v for anything I check out from the quantussy section or the grey audio outputs in the delay sections but appears to be around normal 0-5v from the yellow square wave outputs.

Is this normal?
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