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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Black Swamp build thread
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY  
Author Black Swamp build thread
tojpeters
This is based on the SWAMP panel (permission granted) with some updates and labeling changes plus a few new features like touch pads and a Solo mode wherein you can play row D as a touch keyboard while rows A-C continue sequencing. Some boat trimming will be required.

First up is a CGS36 pulse divider/logic. The pulse divider has a reset button and a 'syncopate' switch that forces it to reset at /7,causing the lower divisions to take on a funky syncopated feel.
In between the 2 half's of that module is CGS31 digital noise.
It has both random gates on the panel (with LEDs) and the internal clock is available at the clock I/O jack when not using an external clock. There is a low speed mod for this as well that involves leaving out 1 resistor. LEDs for all the divisions.
Next up is one of my favorites, CGS13 Gated Comparator.
This has a few wiring and label changes as compared to the SWAMP. The loop enable switch is wired so it cuts off the input while in loop mode. The former loop enable jack is now labeled loop disable,a gate here will end the loop. There is a load button that adds bits to the loop manually. The loop in jack next to it adds bits when sent a gate. There is a rotary switch to choose the number of steps in your loop,one position goes to another loop in jack useful for cascading another gated comp into it. The sequencer knobs are all push-pull,pulling the knob disables the bits,1-8.
Now the sequencer. CGS87 8 step plus a single CGS59A board,CGS 28 SEQUENTIAL SWITCH, CGS86 8 PAD SERGE TOUCH RESPONSIVE KEYBOARD, 2x CGS39 QUAD LOGIC GATE, CGS 07 NOISE,YuSynth RANDOM GATES, and a board from me for the solo function.
Row A are push-pull pots for scaling the output voltage. The switch position of this knob affects the entire column. Each column has a 3 position gate switch with gate 1 that lasts for the duration of the clock pulse,a center no gate position,and gate 2 which starts when the clock pulse goes low. With PWM you can adjust just how long each gate lasts and when gate 2 starts.Each column has 2 switches that can be wired as run/hold/skip or run/stop/skip for each direction hold makes that stage stay on until a new stage is select,stop lets the stage in question play and then step to a 'ghost stage' at the next clock pulse.
Each column has a touch pad. There is a solo switch that allows row D to be played as a keyboard while rows A-C sequence normally. Vertical sequencing (A-B-C-D) can be set to reset after row b,c,or d. You would want to reset it after B or C when using Solo mode. There is a reset button for the vertical sequencer.There is also a random sequence feature. And a stop jack,a gate here will stop the sequence at the ghost stage. I recommend CGS91 rails and maybe 2 of the CGS94 pot mounting rails.


Wiring guides for the BLACK SWAMP
Mount your switches first,then do the gate bus and LED busses. I am not using washers on the front side. I found them to be visually obtrusive.

tojpeters
1.5" standoffs,4-40 pan head screws in 1/2" and 3/4",1/4" nylon spacers,1/2" threaded spacers, #4 nylon insert locknut

You need to drill a couple hole to mount the CGS59A board under the bottom rail. Don't worry about the traces,this is just a mounting rail.



This nut is very close to the pads,a plastic washer here would be nice.



Pulse divider and logic.

The next board gets spacers. Digital noise




Gated Comp. Mounting this board with power header at the bottom makes more sense.



Touch pads board,note 3/4" screws at top



No power header (clearance)

Sequencer boards under the rails. CGS mini-rails.


The small sequencer board





Solo board (this is a prototype)




The quad logic boards get stacked here





Random gates board goes here. Mine has not arrived,this is just to give an idea. The random gates board holes don't quite line up correctly and a bit of hole enlargement/slotting is necessary.



Sequntial switch. Note the 3/4" screws. Power header at bottom here also.







Then the noise/S&H

tojpeters
Notes on CGS28: Link pad SW to pad +VE. Pad CLK connects to the stage out jack of sequencer column 1. For 12v use a 20k resistor in place of the 15k next to the box marked NF near the TL074. Solder a 4.7M resistor between pins 13&14, pins 9&8, and pins 6&7 of the TL074. I also needed to build a voltage divider with a 68k to ground and a 100k to +12v. The 5v output at the junction goes to pad UD. I also needed to add a link from pad RSS to pad RST.
This circuit seems sensitive to 12v vs. 15V.
I have built quite a few of these on 12v. Using a TL074CN from STMicroeletronics it works fine without these changes,Texas Instruments TL074 needs theses changes to work. If you don't need these panels to work on the same power supply that is used for 12v stuff you already have I would build it all for +/- 15v.


Note on solo switch: I found the S&H to be unstable and drifts too quickly so I'm advising omission.







tojpeters


no need to label these wires,any output from the Random Gates board can go to any stage select input-they are random after all

tojpeters


Row A are 100k lin pots with a DPDT switch activated by pulling the knob.
The pot has a voltage divider built into the switch. You can choose different resistor values to suit your taste,the way drawn you will have around 2 octaves with the knob in,10 octaves with the knob pulled.
keep all your resistors nice and low on the switch and pot terminals,some places will get 2 more wires.



This is for the bus leading to I1 on CGS87S










This forms the K bus for each stage






Ground bus


K bus and ground connections to row B. Don't forget the link at R1

Row B to Row C Only 1 ground wire needed.
from Row C the K bus goes to the solo PCB pad C


I1 bus



This goes to I1 on CGS87. Just cut a long wire and trim to proper length once you have the boards mounted.

This will go to pad K on CGS87

A nice long wire on row C at all the pad A,Row D gets a long wire at each pad B,no link need at R1



Ground connection for Row D


Another long wire to be trimmed later at pad M on all 3 pot rails heading to pads I2-4 on CGS87S. Pick any Pad E and place one more long wire to connect to 0v/ground
tojpeters
There are not 2 seperate lines to the H pad,I've drawn it this way for clarity. You could also wire this for run/refuse/skip in both directions. As pictured you will have stop in the middle position for up direction,refuse for the down direction.


remember the link from pin 3 to 5



Another diode bus for the stop function







Up direction switches. These wires will go to pin 2 of the next column. Don't forget the next column after 8 is1



Down direction, all these will go to the middle terminal of the next stage,once again the next step after 1 is 8


Add link for H wire

G wire. Don't forget the wire from the previous stage,in this case stage 8


H wire

J wire, with previous stage wire
tojpeters






You can add a strip of bus wire to strengthen it

tojpeters

tojpeters




Remove this after you build it and set aside until you need it



tojpeters
Enable switch is 3PDT ON-ON



tojpeters
tojpeters
Leave out the 4.7M resistor for lower speed. Replace 1k8 with 1k5 for 12v use



This is where the wire for the clock out connects

modintx
Looking great Jon.

Do you happen to have a photo of the final front panel. I'm curious what push pads you used (CGS red pads?) and the push/pull pot/switches.

Would you be willing to share part #'s for those (Pads and Push/pulls) as I'm starting to build the parts BOM.

Cheers!

w00t
tojpeters
CGS touch pads, Alpha push-pull pots from Smallbear.
Do the push-pull pot option to add the analog white and pink noise. When the digital noise is slow enough to make good use of the clock out and random gates the digital white and pink noise are too slow. Don't forget to omit the 4.7m resistor. I must have a pic of the panel somewhere,but I've already sent this one off to a new home.
modintx
Excellent - Thank you Jon.

Also, sorry one more current question, I've taken a quick look around to try and find the YuSynth RANDOM GATES PCB. Thonk, Synthcube etc - are these available somewhere else?

we're not worthy
tojpeters
Synthcube was supposed to have the Random gates boards months ago. I do not know what is up. If you contact Scott Deyo at Bridechamber and ask nicely he might be able to hook you up.
J3RK
Just about to leave work, and I'm not familiar with the random gates PCB, (so will have to look it up later,) but I imagine we could whip up a circuit that would work there, if getting the other ones is difficult. Let me know if you would like to go that route. Happy to help.

w00t
tojpeters
It is a dead simple module. Like Baby 10 easy. I like it a lot but I wouldn't have included it if I knew it was going to get difficult to obtain. Bridechamber was always my source.
Chaotic
J3RK wrote:
Just about to leave work, and I'm not familiar with the random gates PCB, (so will have to look it up later,) but I imagine we could whip up a circuit that would work there, if getting the other ones is difficult. Let me know if you would like to go that route. Happy to help.

w00t


If so, I'm interested in a couple for my TPS It's peanut butter jelly time!
Can never get enough randomness hihi
modintx
J3RK,

That would be super cool if you could take look and see if it's possible - not having much luck finding this PCB out in the wild waah

SlayerBadger!
J3RK
Just took a quick look at Yves' schematic. I have several circuits that could be easily adapted to do this. We could also replace the CD4006 with a CD4094 since the 4006 isn't being made anymore. (still available, but not mfged) The 4006 is a larger shift register, but I think we can get something comparable out of the 4094 using a maximal setup of XOR gates. I should have some time over the next few days to whip something up. This would be a very simple PCB, 1"x6" will be more than enough with 4U in mind.

To make it a bit more versatile for use in other projects, I could put a very small white noise circuit onboard with a comparator. The threshold could be set via trim to color the data going into the register. This would be an optional portion, but could allow for a different sort of pattern output to just LFSR. I can separate it by a line on the PCB, so it's clear which portion is not required. (or not, but it might be kind of cool) I'll see how much space is left after the main portion is done.

I'll include a reference voltage for the logic levels, so it will be easy to set this up for 5 or 10 volt gates.
modintx
Woot! what a total life saver. J3RK to the rescue again - thank you so very much for taking the time to work on this.

Brilliant options as well. Can't wait to see how the noodling turns out...

we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy w00t w00t screaming goo yo SlayerBadger! screaming goo yo screaming goo yo Guinness ftw!
tojpeters
A couple thoughts; Make sure it includes an AND gate with the clock so that it doesn't hang on the last stage when the clock signal is removed, and maybe add a inverter and AND gate so you can use two boards together for a 16 step sequencer-board one is active when the clock is high,board 2 when the clock is low. Or will that make a stage active with no clock signal? Getting rid of the 4006 would be great,they are hard to find. Thanks!
Chaotic
J3RK applause applause
Count me in for two or shall I say three?
Yes I´ll say three nanners
yan6
I too am in we're not worthy
gruvsyco
I'd be interested in one as well.
tojpeters
I am building one of these right now if anyone has questions this would be a good time to ask
Jon
ambrohski
spinning I'm a pretty simple kit, DIY kind of guy. You guys are skilling it with this build! There is all kinds of crafty shit needed on this one. nice work...

just realizing how deep the some of these builds can get beer! cheers
tojpeters
Here is an idea for the touch pad board to add some strain relief to the coax cables.
8- 9inch long pieces of RG 174/U coax. Strip 1/2" of insulation from both ends,remove shield on one end of 7 of them.The 8th is used to ground the touch plate.


#22 tinned bus wire. don't go crazy with the solder iron and melt the inner insulation causing a short.


Trim the shield

One gets a bit of hookup wire on the other end



Add heat shrink tube to both ends. Make sure there are no stray shield wires sticking out


Solder in place for a robust connection.
Musicology of Dreams
Amazing work Jon congratulations and thanks for such useful thread smile
Best regards It's peanut butter jelly time!
Chris applause SlayerBadger!
yan6
Any update on the random gates pcb
tojpeters
I am trying to obtain a few of them to distribute to those in need. Have you written Synthcube and asked if they have them yet?
yan6
I did ask sythcube abount a month ago and they were still coming soon seriously, i just don't get it
tojpeters
I have 10 random gates boards coming. PM me to order.
Jon
gruvsyco
Just adding my name to see replies.
the bad producer
Hello! Righty-ho, finally starting to wire this up and I'm a bit confused by this I'm afraid - why are the UP switches SP3T?! help

tojpeters wrote:
There are not 2 seperate lines to the H pad,I've drawn it this way for clarity. You could also wire this for run/refuse/skip in both directions. As pictured you will have stop in the middle position for up direction,refuse for the down direction.


the bad producer
I'd imagine I'll be asking a few Q's now I'm afraid - here's another, what sort of switch is the ABCD switch? I may have missed this hmmm.....
the bad producer
Oh, sorry - one mor thing! Jon, you said that you didn't recommend the CGS97 S&H any more as it drifts, I had a real pain recently with one on a panel I built and I ended up using a CGS04 to buffer the CV input and it now works like a charm (I also used a trimmer in place of the 'INPUT' pot to set the level of the CV going in...)
the bad producer
the bad producer wrote:
I'd imagine I'll be asking a few Q's now I'm afraid - here's another, what sort of switch is the ABCD switch? I may have missed this hmmm.....


I see now ABCD is 633-M202401, it was the SOLO switch what confuses me!
tojpeters
The DT3T switch for for the sequencer is to accommodate the stop function. I'm sure you've seen the run/refuse/skip wiring on Ken's page. That is what I use for the down direction. It works,but it does leave the stage prior to the refused one active,if the gate switch is on it will still put out a gate at every clock pulse. And the CV stays high.
I use an extra stage -the ghost stage (CGS59A). The 3 position switch in down position connects the G pad to the H pad,that is the run (normal) default position.
The switch all the way up sends the pulse from the G pad to the next stage's H pad for the skip function.
In the middle position the pulse from the G pads is sent to the H pad on the extra (ghost) stage which becomes active,so none of the 1-8 stages are active. The ghost stage sends no signals back out to your Cv/pulse outs. It will stay active with no output until a new stage is selected by the touch pads or stage in jack.
So you get a stop function with no stages active.
If you can get the S&H to work better include it. That way when you take your finger off the touch pad your CV out will stay the same like most analog keyboards. You need a 4PDT switch for that as the solo switch. Or skip the S&H and just use a SPDT switch to provide a logic state of high or low to the Solo PCB. With no S&H you use either the touch pad gate(PGate) or pressure output to open a VCA when you are touching a pad to gate the output of your VCO,if not it will go to whatever note 0v is when you take your finger of the pad. If you include the S&H do the mod on the digital noise section with the push/pull pot. When the digital noise is running slow enough to make good use of the clock out and random gate the white and pink noise are too slow,more like gates.
Jon
tojpeters
You can just use a SPDT center off switch for the up direction and have run/refuse/skip in both directions if the stop feature doesn't interest you. Or use DP3T switches for both directions for a down direction stop.
Jon
the bad producer
Thank you Jon!

Yes, upon further reading I got it in the end regarding the run/refuse/skip switches, I think what confused me originally was the different switches for UP and DOWN - thank you for clarifying!

I think I'll use some DPDT ON-ON-ON switches for this and wire them as SP3T's - would you agree that this will work before I go ahead?! I have many of those and it would be wonderful to not have to order more other things!
tojpeters
Can you send me a link to the data sheet on those?
You need to be able to send the G pulse to one of three locations- same stage H,next stage H,or ghost stage
the bad producer
Great - it will deffo work then, I've used them on the WAD for the Feedback switch (A, B, AUX to FB)... Wired up like this:



These are they

Actually quite looking forward to the build zombie
tojpeters
That will work,and a good price.
I hope you like the build and the results.
J3RK
Apologies, I forgot that I was going to make a random gate PCB! I'll see if I can whip one up this weekend. It shouldn't take much time at all.
the bad producer
Is this diagram still correct for wiring up the solo function WITH the S&H? Using a 3PDT ON-ON?


tojpeters wrote:
tojpeters
Yes. It just inserts the S&H into the row D output wire when in solo mode.
the bad producer
Cool, thanks I thought so but then you mentioned a 4PDT above! - does it matter which stage is which in the SOLO PCB? Can I go:

Stage 1
Stage 2
Stage 3
Stage 4

down left side (looking at pic above)

Stage 5
Stage 6
Stage 7
Stage 8

down right side...

And could you confirm that all caps are 10NF apart from the one marked '0.3' - is this 300NF?
tojpeters
All the sections are the same on the Solo PCB,any order is fine.
100nf decoupling caps,0.33uf for the regulator.
tojpeters
I'm sure everyone would appreciate the random gates board,and it being smaller with mounting holes that match CGS dimensions would really be a bonus.
the bad producer
thumbs up Saw the vid you posted on FB - looks amazing!

tojpeters wrote:
All the sections are the same on the Solo PCB,any order is fine.
100nf decoupling caps,0.33uf for the regulator.
tojpeters
Thanks.
I'm really looking forward to your thoughts after you use this.
Are you building the Quicksand next?
Lots of nice features on that one. The DUSG is awesome.
And while I'm thinking of it the lower right hole for attaching the panel to the boat is not quite right,it gets partially covered by the touch pads. Oops. You can slot it a little to the right with a file or just drill a new hole.
Sorry about that.
the bad producer
I'm pretty looking forward to this myself, thanks for the tip re the screw hole, just in time!

I've got a couple of other panels to do immediately after this, but yes the Quicksand and the other one too eventually!

tojpeters wrote:
Thanks.
I'm really looking forward to your thoughts after you use this.
Are you building the Quicksand next?
Lots of nice features on that one. The DUSG is awesome.
And while I'm thinking of it the lower right hole for attaching the panel to the boat is not quite right,it gets partially covered by the touch pads. Oops. You can slot it a little to the right with a file or just drill a new hole.
Sorry about that.
the bad producer
help Dead Banana zombie


yan6
That is looking great, nice work woah

Seeing this has made me really jeleous, im still collecting parts sad banana
the bad producer
It is insane! Jon's build docs are great though and there were a couple of things I couldn't get my head around but Jon was super helpful!

Probably much easier with the pot brackets too!
tojpeters
looks great. I hope all the extra features are with the extra wiring to you. Any trouble with the CGS 28?
the bad producer
Thanks! I'm using a CGS 28 I've had in the rack for years, so I know it works!
the bad producer
Here is the front:

yan6
eek! love
cygmu
applause
That's beautiful.
tojpeters
So did you end up using a S&H circuit in the solo mode? How is that working,is there much drift?
Looks really nice.
the bad producer
Yeah, actually ended up using a clone of the Doepfer one on stripboard, I was wasting too much time fiddling with it, and it was behaving most odd... Something to think about at some other time, that S&H!
the bad producer
Thank you for all your help and for the panel design and everything! we're not worthy

I'd quite like to make the Programmer into a module itself - do you have any SOLO PCB's left?
tojpeters
I do. Are you talking 8 stage or 16?
The last time I sent these overseas I got reamed on the shipping,they made me send them as packages not just in an envelope, it was like 15-20$ shipping.
tojpeters
I tried 3 different S&H circuits with poor results . I don't know why.
yan6
the bad producer wrote:
Here is the front:



in the TRK area just above the touch pads there are three switches, the red cap switches are the SP3T on-on-on, I know the other two are SPST but what function are they

EDIT just saw the ones with out any switch caps are on-off-on, that just leaves the white cap ones
tojpeters
The switches with white caps are SPDT on-off-on. They are run/refuse/skip for the down direction.
The uncapped switches are SPDT on-off-on. They are gate switches. To the left there is a gate signal at the gate jack when the clock is high and the stage is active. Center is gate off. Right is gate on when stage is active and clock is low.
the bad producer
I used a 3PDT on-off-on for the ENABLE switch, I think this should be 3PDT on-on (or more confusingly on-none-on!) is that right?
tojpeters
On-on is correct.
the bad producer
tojpeters wrote:
I tried 3 different S&H circuits with poor results . I don't know why.


Did you get stepped/random voltages? I did at first, I wondered if it was triggering the S&H before the sample voltage had time to settle, not sure why the Doepfer would work better,. I used the S&H on it's own before in another panel, but that did require a buffer and range adjust trim though...
the bad producer
Cool - there's a post on page 1 which says on-off-on

tojpeters wrote:
On-on is correct.
tojpeters
I just had lots of drift,it would hardly hold the voltage for a second before drifting down very noticeably. I'll fix that switch recommendation.
the bad producer
Oh, that's odd, don't remember drift - if I make another sequencer I'll have to nail the CGS S&H, I'll PM you about the SOLO pcb!
tojpeters
Xicon styrene cap,maybe not as low-leakage as it should be?
yan6
What type and function are the enable and load switch in the gated comparator. As well, what is the type and function of the solo switch, even though its not recommended I might as well fit it.

I missing two pcb's but other than that I'm full stem ahead on this and will start wiring up the led and pull switches while I wait for the pcb's.
tojpeters
Solo switch. This switch puts the sequencer into SOLO mode.
The top 3 rows will function normally,but the bottom row (row D) can be played as a keyboard via the touch pads,even as rows A-C sequence normally. Are you omitting the S&H? If so you need a SPDT switch. Wire the switch just like the right side of the drawing,S,S and 0v.
Omit the S&H and wire CGS87s PAD O4 directly to output jack D.
Here is a patch for the SOLO mode:
Row D output to 1v/oct input of VCO
Output of VCO into VCA
Output of VCA to mixer/monitor
P GATE to VCA cv input
Now when you press a touchpad the VCA will open and output a note that is tuned by the corresponding row D pot.
Now add a filter that is opened up by the PRESS output. You'll be able to sweep the filter by varying the pressure on the touchpad.
yan6
I will be omitting the S&H, I guess I didn't need to build the other half of the CGS28 d'oh!

So then the solo switch is SPDT ON-ON

what about the Enable and Load switches, what type & function are they

I may have missed it but where does the P-Gate led wire to
tojpeters
The LOAD switch is DPDT ON-MOM. That is on when up (normal position) and a momentary switch when held down.
You use it to manually add bits to the sequence. While down it also disconnects the LOOP IN jack.

The ENABLE switch puts it into self-looping mode.
In this mode it functions similarly to a KLEE sequencer.
You choose the number of steps with the rotary switch.
3PDT ON-ON
Send a clock signal to CLOCK and noise or the output of a VCO,even the one you are driving,to IN. Adjust the SENS knob so you can see the COMP LED flashing. To much input and all the outputs will go high and there will be no movement.
This will get a random sequence going. Send the MIX output to the 1v/oct input of a VCA. Adjust RANGE knob to taste.
Flipping the switch up starts a loop and disconnects the input (IN).
You can program a manual loop by sending a clock signal to the CLOCK input with no input to the IN jack,flipping the ENABLE switch up,and tapping in a pattern with the LOAD switch. Kinda sensitive,it might take a few tries to get a pattern you like.
Remember any stage that is lit will go to your output so if you want a 4 step loop turn the pots for stages 5 through 8 all the way down.
tojpeters
P-GATE LED comes from the CGS39 built as an OR gate,pad L4
yan6
It looks like the CW outer pad needs to be bridged with the second to outside pad used for the 9mm pots. There is a top side trace connecting the two, but the through hole for the 9mm isn't plated and doesn't make connection

tojpeters
Ken mentions that on his site. Supposed to be just an early run,but obviously they are still showing up,
yan6
In a day of too many distractions i made a bit of progress.







Its probably hard to tell but if anything stands out as incorrect let me know.

On row C wire point A is left long. Does this end up at the solo pcb. Additionally there isnt a connection between row C and row D. Row D also ends up at the solo pcb which makes or break the connection based on the solo switch stae, correct hmmm.....
tojpeters
Yes it goes to the solo PCB.
In normal mode the K bus output passes through the solo pcb to the row d pot and the individual gate out from the touch pads passes through to become your push button stage selector.
In solo mode the push button connection is disabled and the K bus is replaced with a 5v (or whatever you set via the voltage divider on the solo pcb) source.
So K bus goes from row C to the solo pcb, row D gets its K bus or solo voltage from the solo PCB
tojpeters
You will probably need to turn the row A pots to a 90 degree angle for boat clearance
tojpeters
Here is a diagram of the solo mode


yan6
tojpeters wrote:
You will probably need to turn the row A pots to a 90 degree angle for boat clearance


not a problem there, I only had the in there loose for the photo thumbs up

On Row C the link at R1 isn't needed right, since the Row C K bus goes to the solo pcb

Edit: hang on, the link is still needed. Wire pad A from the pot board then carries a K bus from each pot to the solo pcb.
tojpeters
No R1 link needed for row D
yan6
Are there two connection points here; the first is to the switch, where does the second one go hmmm.....

[img][/img]
tojpeters
CGS87 (main sequencer board), PAD PO (stage number)
yan6
been making some small amounts of progress Mr. Green



I was a little foggy on the switch wiring at first glance, but I think I have it correct now

tojpeters
Looks good.
Test the sequencer before you do the touch pads, random, or vertical sequencer.
At least 3 of these have been successfully built, so you can do it.
Always glad to help.
Jon
yan6
what were the values for R1 & R2 on the solo pcb.

Are the unlabeled caps also .01uf

Is 330nf close enough for the 300nf
tojpeters
R1 and R2 form a voltage divider to control the range of the row D output while in solo mode.
A link at R1/omit R2 will give a 5 octave range.
I used 10k at R1 and 6.8k for R2 for a 2 octave range.
.01uf for all the decoupling caps is fine, 100nf would be fine also.
The cap by the regulator is 330nf,the overlay is obscured there.
yan6
Welp life got in the way of this one big time; the last six months have been really crazy with me helping my wife setup a retail boutique. That shit was no small task, everything from renos to barcode inventory d'oh! But its alive and doing well and my life is slowly returning to normal. There was also about a two month wait on shipping from Aus to Can for two missing pcb's seriously, i just don't get it really unusual, everything previous has only been two weeks max.

Anyways enough side tracking and back to work. It might take me a few dumb questions to pick this back up mid stream and figure out where I was Dead Banana but first things first, I want to finish populating the panel

In the gated comparator are the range, sens and vc sens all B100k
tojpeters
Range and VC sens are are 100k lin,sens is 10k lin
yan6
tojpeters wrote:
Note on solo switch: I found the S&H to be unstable and drifts too quickly so I'm advising omission.



Was there a new drawing for this switch with the S&H omission
tojpeters
CGS 87s PAD O4 is wired directly to ROW D output jack bypassing the switch.
You can use a SPDT on-on switch for the solo switch.
yan6
tojpeters wrote:
CGS 87s PAD O4 is wired directly to ROW D output jack bypassing the switch.
You can use a SPDT on-on switch for the solo switch.


So then this is all the wiring that remains for the SPDT
tojpeters
Correct
tojpeters
I would add the S&H would be a great feature to have if you can find one that works. Maybe the MFOS VC- S&H ?
Omit Q2, connect PGATE to the sync input (maybe through a gate to trig circuit) and use output 2-the one without glide.
Just need something with very low droop.
yan6
I still have a few questions for the same section:

1) where does the anode of the led between random and gate go

2) where does the led between press and pgate go

3) what is the gate switch drawing referenced by the gate jack's connection

4) on cgs59A I cant see a XP connection point (stop jack)
tojpeters
Here are the connections for the gate led and the pressure (touchpad) gate :


https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/userpix2/7123_black_swamp_gate_switc hes_wire_guide_2.jpg

I'm not sure what you are asking with the switch question.

The newer CGS59A boards that is labeled PULSE IN, sorry about that.
yan6
Thanks for the above clarification

I re-read my question 2 and realized how confusing it sounded oops . I'm just not sure what drawing you are referencing here:



Also just confirming there is only +voltage and 0v on the cgs59a?
tojpeters
Same drawing,the connection to the gate jack is from the CGS39 built as an OR gate pad O3
And yes,just +12 v and 0v on the CGS 59A
gruvsyco
For anyone still looking, I found a source for the yusynth random gates a couple of weeks ago.

https://www.soundtronics.co.uk/yusynth-random-gates-module-bare-pcb.ht ml

Mine is ordered.

Ordered the Hexinverter MIDI for another one of the panels too since those are going to be hard to find soon too.
yan6


It doesn't matter what the order is on these does it; as long as all similar stages are wired/grouped together [/img]
tojpeters
Yes,all the sections are the same-but mind the difference in pad order side to side.
yan6


There's two connection here right, one to XP and one to the random gates outputs?
tojpeters
Yes
yan6


Was pad A & B intentionally left out

Does the ghost bus connect anywhere hmmm.....
tojpeters
No connection for pad A and pad B.
The ghost stage bus goes to the CGS59A ghost stage board pad H
yan6


Is this a 15k resistor as described in the cgs documentation
tojpeters
Yes
yan6


'L' & 'H' are the same as on these switches

What is the unlabeled leg of the pot 0v

Also do we need to cut traces on the pad pairs J-K, L-M, O-P & Q-R as in the cgs13 documentation
tojpeters
Good catch .
I'd never noticed,but there are 2 pad H,2 pad L ,maybe more.
They are not the same pads.
The push-pull sequencer knobs pad designations go to the center of the board along the row of transistors.
And yes you need to cut those traces as listed on the CGS site.
The other ones for the loop functions are near the LM393.
No connection for that lug on the pot.
yan6


This is on the CGS31 right?
tojpeters
No. CGS13 gated comparator board
yan6


I feel dumb for asking, but where do these go oops

And can I do testing of the panel with the touch pads unconnected
tojpeters
Those go to CGS36 . the pad list is in the drawing just above the one you are showing.
Yes test the sequencer without the touch pads first.
You need something that puts out a gate signal,
After power on use a gate signal/logic high signal to select stages via the stage select inputs.
Upon power up sometimes more that one stage will be active,or the ghost stage could be active so select each stage as a first test,then put a clock to your up input and see if it steps normally.
You should have your LEDs wired up for this test,it makes it easier to see if stages are active.. I put the LED for the ghost stage right on the CGS59A ghost stage board so I can see if that is active.
After checking up and down clocking test your run/skip/stop/hold switches.
yan6
Thats funny I have been working from a print off of the thread and hadn't printed that picture Mr. Green

Were there any pictures of how the touch pad is mounted
tojpeters
The touch pads are mounted with double sided tape,the foam stuff labeled as permanent.
Don't forget to slot the panel mounting hole a bit or drill a new one,the touch pads cover the existing hole, sorry about that.
The touch pads should be the last thing you do after testing the whole panel and doing any troubleshooting.
Test the pads before taping them down.
After affirming that everything works with the pads and taping them I add some glue to the wire and pad to strain relive the wire,that coax stuff breaks off really easily.
yan6
This may be the slowest build ever for me, but I'm getting there. Free time seems to be my biggest challenge these days.

As expected I have a few item that will need working out. I have a small video in hopes of more easily showing what I'm seeing. My real question is surrounding the Gate 1 and Gate 2 switch and its function. I'm also showing some curious actions with the Row A pull switches, they seem to be doing random things with the sequencer.

tojpeters
You do have some minor problems but the main functions seem good so that is a positive.
In the up direction the sequence should stop with no stages active. Try running the sequencer in the up direction with all switches set to run.Now send a gate or trigger to the STOP jack. The sequence should stop with no stages active. No gate or cv output.
If that checks out then you have a problem with the stop function wiring.
The switch should be sending your G pad signal to the CGS59A ghost stage ,activating it and disabling all the other stages.
The switch has 3 paths.
In the run position G is connected to H,activating that stage when it gets a clock pulse.
In skip mode it sends the G signal to the next stage's H input,activating that stage instead.
In the stop position the G pulse should go through a diode to a bus that connects to the ghost stage pad H,activating that stage and disabling all the rest.
The ghost stage does not send a pulse to the G or J bus so it will be stuck there until you manually activate a step with the touch pads or send a gate/trigger to one of the stage select inputs.
Let's work on this before dealing with the other issues.
But yes you should have a gate in gate 1 or 2 position.
You should check if you are not getting a gate in gate 2 position,or if the LED is simply not lighting when it should.
The pull switches seem like a wiring mistake.
But one problem at a time.
Really good work so far,you are very close.
Jon
yan6


Im not sure if you can double check things or not from the picture. You are looking at stage 8.

When i tried as you described, running the sequencer in the up direction with all switches in run and no gate outputs, placing a high gate at the stop; i dont get any results the sequncer continues to run.

I checked that the stop jack goes only to the cgs59a pulse in. The wire from the diode bus goes to cgs59a pad 'H'. Other than +12v and ground there arent any other connections on the cgs59a.
tojpeters
There are 4 more connections to the CGS59A board;
They are detailed at the left side of the drawing.
Pads F,E,C,and D are connected from the CGS87 to the CGS59A

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/userpix2/7123_black_swamp_run_stop_s kip_wire_guide_2.jpg
yan6
man, I missed those for sure d'oh! , are these in addition to the A,D,C,E,F,B from the CGS87S.
yan6


applause Progress

next issue confirmed with scope no gate on gate 1
tojpeters
I'm not sure of your question.
One end of the CGS87 (the big board) should be connected to the CGS87S board,the other end of the big board connects to the ghost state/CGS58A. Do note the reversed silkscreen legend for the 0v and +12v pads on one end.
tojpeters
No gate on just gate 1 or gate 2 also?
yan6
Okay, I'm getting gates on both Gate 1 and Gate 2 now, I forgot to add the link from O1 to I4 on the OR Gate of the CGS39.

Could you explain the difference in use from Gate 1 to Gate 2
tojpeters
Gate 1 is on when the clock signal is high,gate 2 is on when the clock is low.
With a variable pulse width clock signal you can choose the length of the gate signals and when gate 2 starts within the step.
yan6
I've testing out the gate 1 & 2 and think I'm ready to move on. I could either go to the gated comparator or the pull switches of row A. What else is going on in the pull switch other than changing the voltage divider for the CV scaling.

I feel I will need a description of how to test the gated comparator.
tojpeters
That's all the row A push-pull pots do, insert a voltage divider (for the whole column ) and bring the voltage range down to 0-2 volts for finer control on the frequency knobs.
So you have good cv outputs on A,B,C,D when the row A knobs aren't pulled?
For the Gated Comp patch the white noise output (speed up,not down in the clock range) to IN,and a clock to the clock input. Start with the SENS knob fully clockwise and turn it toward the center. You should see the COMP LED start flashing,and that flash carried down the line. Too much input and all the outs will go high and there will be no movement.
yan6
I choose to look at the gated comparator first. Initially I didn't think it was working but after messing with it for a while, I was able to make it work as I thought it should from your description and from watching a video or two about it. Having said that it was extremely fussy and I wasn't able to repeat the results easily. I was only able to get it to work twice in about 40min of fussing with it.

Most of the time the comp led comes on and all bits light up solid.

Just a note only the green leds were workings as well, I'm not sure when the red would light but I didn't see them.
yan6
Okay poking around a bit, I almost cant believe it, I had the enable switch in sideways d'oh! meh oops but wired according to the drawings.

Now that I fixed it; when in enable I see green lights and they appear to be working as the should moving in a repetitive like sequence. If I flip the enable switch red led's start at the top and according to the clock work their way down until all are light and then stay like that. I presume that is normal as it seem sensible.

I still cant really make it work form the white noise on board but it seems okay when using the one from an Edelweiss panel seriously, i just don't get it
tojpeters
The red LEDs will light when in loop mode.
What are you using as a clock?
Do you have a good 0v connection between your clock source and this panel.
It should not be that hard to dial up a pattern.
Try the sense knob on both sides of the center point.
If you have given it too much input and all LEDs are lit simply pull the cable from the IN jack and let all the bits fall out the bottom.
Maybe try this loop patch.
Flip the INT CLK/ CLK I/O switch up and patch the clock I/O jack to the input of the divider.
I'm just going through the divider here to give a visual indication of the clock rate.
Take one of the division outputs and patch to the Gated Comp CLOCK jack.
No other cables patched to the GATED COMP.
Set the rotary switch to 8
Flip the enable switch up.
Press the LOAD momentary switch or button,whichever you used, a couple times It takes a bit of practice to load in what you want ,but activating the switch several times should make the COMP LED light up and then that signal should travel down the line to step 8. After step 8 the signal (lighted LED) should loop back up to step 1.You can keep activating the switch and add more bits, if it is too much or you just want to try a new pattern set the rotary to the LOOP IN jack setting or just turn off the ENABLE switch and all the bits will drop out. Send the MIX out to a VCO and monitor the output. Adjust the RANGE knob to taste.
yan6
I checkout the above description quick and it appears to be working. I noticed the rate pot on the noise section has a sweet spot where it goes from a reasonable clock to insane fast without barely moving it. This might explain why I can get it to work with the gated comparator. I'm not sure if the pot is faulty or if I have something wrong. Just checking it should B100K?

Also checking the load switch only worked while enable was in the up position.

one last thing the mix and mix inv go to to CGS31 mixer out; I dont think I have any connections to the inputs; where these supposed to be from the gated outputs?
tojpeters
The rate pot is B100k. Maybe you have a log pot in there,or like you said a faulty pot. It should not be touchy.
The output of the bus connecting the wipers of pots 1-8 (they all go through a 100k resistor before connecting to the bus) goes to CGS31 pad MISN.
The RANDOM output does not go through the mixer but is affected by the BIT DISABLE function (MIX and MIX INV are not)
Pull knobs 5-8 out to disable those bits and patch the RANDOM jack to the 1v/oct input of a VCO and monitor the results.
If you are using the white noise output patched to the input of the Gated Comp you will need to use an external clock source to clock the GATED COMP. To get good clock speeds out of the digital noise you will slow down your white noise and it will be more like a series of gates. You can also use the output of the VCO you are driving as your input if you want to use the clock from the noise module.

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/userpix2/7123_black_swamp_gate_comp_ row_45_wire_guide_1.jpg
tojpeters
Did you see the resistor changes for the digital noise?


Leave out the 4.7M resistor for lower speed. Replace 1k8 with 1k5 for 12v use
yan6
Alright moving on and I'm starting to feel much better like there is an end near. The comparator is working; I changed the pot and the noise works as it should. As for the mixer, it was my lack of understanding or maybe thinking d'oh! I had all the output pots turned down oops I turned them up and of course it works fine and the pull knobs remove the bits from the mixer.

I'm going to move onto the Row A pull knobs
tojpeters
Fantastic. The Gated Comp is possibly my favorite module.
Very underrated.
tojpeters
https://youtu.be/1iAOLJnbFrA


This is a gated comp demo I did a few years ago
yan6
Nice video SlayerBadger! I'm stoked to use it myself, it looks like a lot of fun

I've torn apart the row a pull switches and things are looking okay to me so far. Any guesses what would cause the pull switch to make it jump and hold to another step. Because the order is all over the place, I'm wondering if the random gates is somehow causing this.

I'm also curious if the wiring to the solo switch is correct. I have skipped the S&H so all I have is a SPDT with the top lug to 0V, middle lug to S (near power header) and the bottom lug to the other S at the bottom of the pcb.
tojpeters
So when the A row switches are pushed in all your outputs are good and respond to knob settings normally ?
tojpeters
Your SOLO switch wiring is correct
tojpeters
I don't see how the RANDOM GATES board could cause this,but you can always disconnect the power to that board while testing.
yan6
Sorry for the delay, but I'm back now

tojpeters wrote:
So when the A row switches are pushed in all your outputs are good and respond to knob settings normally ?


Things dont seem to be working here; I only have 0-800mV change on each knobs for all rows. I cross checked this with my TPS which puts out 0-5V
tojpeters
How about the stage out jacks?
Also check the voltage on the CCW lug of the A pot.
Maybe also check that you don't have continuity to ground on that lug.
Did you run the wires from each row of pots to the CGS87S board?
tojpeters
Do the LEDs work normally?
yan6
tojpeters wrote:
How about the stage out jacks?


I have 5v on each stage out jack

tojpeters wrote:
Also check the voltage on the CCW lug of the A pot.
Maybe also check that you don't have continuity to ground on that lug.


I dont seem to have any voltage on the CCW lug of the pot, irregardless of its position. I have continuity to ground when the pot is fully clockwise

tojpeters wrote:
Did you run the wires from each row of pots to the CGS87S board?


I'm pretty sure I did

The led's on the strip seem to work fine. Stage A led works, and it seems I forgot the clock input for the verticle sequencer, is this just from one of the stage out
tojpeters
The clock for the vertical sequencer is from the stage 1 stage out jack.
You have a wiring problem on your knobs,probably the row A knobs.
Your sequencer works,it is the same voltage that drives the LEDs and the stage out jacks as drives the CV outs (A,B,C,D)
Disconnect your K wire from the row A pot and I think you'll find it is at around ten volts when that stage is active.
You need to find out where you are killing that signal presumably to ground.
CCW should go to ground,wiper should go through a 100k resistor to row A bus that goes to the CGS87s pad I1. When the knob is pulled the K bus should go through a voltage divider that takes the voltage down to around 2 volts.
Edit- this is backwards,the voltage divider is disabled when the knob is pulled
yan6
When I pull the K wire from one of the pots I indeed get the 10v on that K wire when the stage is active.

When I meter from the K lug to the CW lug I get 10k with the switch in, with the switch pulled I get 0.5ohm. This is with the K wire off
tojpeters
I have it backwards in my previous post,the cv voltage goes through a voltage divider in the normal position and the voltage divider is bypassed when the knob is pulled.


tojpeters
Here is a drawing of the pull pot with labels so we can be on the same page.


tojpeters
So here are some numbers to check:
With the knob in
Pole 4 to CCW =12.2k
Pole 4 to CW - 10k
Pole 4 to Pad K = 0 ohms (should beep with continuity setting on your meter)
CCW to 0v (ground) - 0 ohms
Wiper to CGS87s pad I1 = 100k
CW to Pole 5 = 0 ohms
CW to Row B CW = 0 ohms
Knob pulled
Pole 4 to CW - 0 ohms
yan6
Everything has checked out except the Wiper to CGS87s pad I1 = 100k ; I'm only seeing 12.4k here. It didn't seem to make a difference if I disconnected I1 from the CGS87s, it was still 12.4k.

Edit: this would make sense since there are 8 100k in parallel, right?

If I remove the I1 bus each wiper to Lug 3 or I1 of the switch is 100k
tojpeters
Each stage's pole 3 is connected to the next stage's pole 3 with the last one connected to I1? All but the first stage pole 3 should have 3 connections- a wire from the previous stage,a wire to the next stage,and the leg of the resistor
Disconnect the wire that goes from the CW lug to the CW lug of row B and see if the restores your voltage to the CW lug of row A (2 volts with knob in and 10v pulled)
yan6
Okay I cut the R1 jumper on the row B, this makes the connection from the CW of Row A to the CW of Row B. It turns out that I get 10v when the switch is pulled out and 2v with it in for that stage.
tojpeters
Sounds like something is screwy with row B or beyond.
I'd guess something in the solo section wiring.
You could cut the connection from row B to row C and see if that makes row A & B work
yan6
Cut the row C jumper and the Row A stage is 2v pushed in and 10v pulled out (this is reverse to what it should right). Row B is now 2v as is Row C. Just the heck of it I checked Row D and its inverted hmmm.....
tojpeters
It should be 2v pushed in,10v pulled-so that is all good.
So to clarify row A.B.C CW lug have 2v with row A knob pushed in,10v on row A,B.and C with the job out. That is with the connection from C to D(through the solo board) severed?
tojpeters
Here is a block diagram of sorts for the solo mod.
Try to get your head around how it works,that should make any troubleshooting easier.

yan6
Yes Row A, B & C work 2v switch in and 10v switch out. This is with the Row C CW jumper cut

I'm thinking it might be in the solo switch wiring, unless I'm mistaken I see two different wiring diagrams for the solo switch:

This one



and this one



I used the top image with a SPDT wired as shown in the red box and abandoned the S&H
tojpeters
The bottom drawing is a functional diagram not a wiring diagram
tojpeters
With no links cut and not powered up check that you have continuity between the CW lugs of ABC&D pots.
There should not be continuity between the CW lugs and ground with the pots set to their midway position.
yan6
I soldered the links back up and without the power on I only have continuity between the CW of Row A, B & C, not with D. And there isnt ever continuity from ground to CW

Edit, another observation, I wired in the vertical clock and it seems to work mostly. The length switch works and the reset works, the only thing is it never enters into Row D; I'm wondering if the solo board or switch is the culprit.
tojpeters
One problem at a time,we'll work on the vertical sequencer after the main sequencer works.
I'd like to get an overview of where we are.
With the power disconnected from the solo board test the sequencer.
With no clock does the sequencer step to any stage that you press the touch pad for?
The LED lights for any active stage and stays lit until you choose a new stage?
Stage out jacks work?
Stage in jacks work?
The A,B,C cv outs work as expected?
With a clock input to up or down it steps as expected?
The run/skip/stop switches work correctly?
It stops with no stages active in up direction,stops with previous stage active in down direction?
The gate switches work?
The touch pads output a gate and a variable cv?
Maybe copy and paste these questions and add your answers to make sure I get all the info.
yan6
Quote:
With the power disconnected from the solo board test the sequencer.


Power disconnected thumbs up

Quote:
With no clock does the sequencer step to any stage that you press the touch pad for?


No, touching the pads doesn't cause the sequencer to step to the pressed stage

Quote:
The LED lights for any active stage and stays lit until you choose a new stage?


Yes, the lights on the touch strip stay lit until you select another stage. I was using the stage select to test this.

Quote:
Stage out jacks work?


Yes, I get 5v from each of the stage out, tested again by selecting the stage in to select that stage and confirmed on my scope the stage out voltage. Also get a 5v pulse from each stage when the sequencer is running.

Quote:
Stage in jacks work?


Yes, they select and hold the stage until another is selected

Quote:
The A,B,C cv outs work as expected?


With the jumper on Row C soldered back up they dont output the correct voltage. I only get 0.8v. As determined before with the CW jumper cut on Row C I get the correct voltages

Quote:
With a clock input to up or down it steps as expected?


Yes

Quote:
The run/skip/stop switches work correctly?
It stops with no stages active in up direction,stops with previous stage active in down direction?


I think this is working. Run and skip definitely works in both directions. With the stop; the sequencer will run up to the stopped stage and then enter the ghost stage. It will stay there until I choose another stage to start from via the stage select and then run up to the stop switch and again enter the ghost stage.

Quote:
The gate switches work?


I thought the gate had been working hmmm..... but now it seems stuck high at 4v

Quote:
The touch pads output a gate and a variable cv?


I get a variable voltage out of the Press jack when I touch the pads. The PGate jack seems to have some form of the sequencers clock on it ridding on 4v
tojpeters
Are the links on row C currently cut?
If so return power to the solo board and see if the touch pads now will select stages now,and your p gate should also function.
If that works then flip the solo switch up and see if you get a voltage on the row D out that corresponds to knob position while your finger is on the touchpad.
yan6
tojpeters wrote:
Are the links on row C currently cut?
If so return power to the solo board and see if the touch pads now will select stages now,and your p gate should also function.
If that works then flip the solo switch up and see if you get a voltage on the row D out that corresponds to knob position while your finger is on the touchpad.


Powered on the Solo pcb and tested this with the Row C CW link intact and no changes from previously described operation. I then Re-cut the Row C CW link and the only change is the CV voltages of Row A,B & C have returned to normal. All other behavior as previously described.
tojpeters
Seems to be narrowed down to the solo board.
There are so few parts on that board.
I'm thinking wrong chips,or installed in wrong locations or a wiring issue. Wiring seems less likely as all would have to wrong or at least most.

The chips should alternate between DG202 and DG201,with a DG202 nearest the power header
tojpeters
Also check that the PCB is not touching anything and causing shorts
yan6
I have a few of the pcbs just floating and not stacked together with standoff's for trouble shooting. The solo and the two CGS39 are one of them. I got back some of the features I knew were working. It turns out the logic boards may have touch each other or somewhere else as a +voltage trace from one and -voltage trace from the other were blown off d'oh! I fixed that and now the Gate is back working and the PGate is also working.

the chips on the solo board are in the right order. I will double check the wiring but perhaps I should order new chips as a start
tojpeters
Disconnect the power to all PCBs that you aren't working on.
Don't replace chips yet,those are really easy to test.
tojpeters
The top of the SOLO board is where the power header is.

With the power supply off and the power wire to this PCB connected and the SOLO switch in the down position there should be continuity between PAD S at the top and 0v. If the 0v connection on the SOLO switch goes to a PCB that PCB will also need to have the power cable attached. With the switch up there should be continuity between the upper and lower S pads.
Turn switch off (down).
Now apply power.
You should have 5v at the lower S pad.
You should have -12 volts at pin 4 on all chips. A spot check will do.
You should have +12v on pin 13 on all chips.
You should have continuity between pin 5 and 0v on all chips.
The right side of R1 should be at the expected voltage, 5v with link for R1 and the calculated voltage based on your choice for R1 & R2.
Test the DG202
To test the DG202 we need to first make sure the CGS86 is working.
Remove power from the solo board,connect power to both the touch pad boards.
Always turn off your power supply when attaching/detaching power cables.
As you press each touch pad the GATE PAD for each section should go high and stay high while your finger is on the touch pad.
Plug in the SOLO board. Turn SOLO switch on. Remember if the 0v for the solo switch goes to a PCB that PCB needs to be plugged in also.
For each section when you press the touch pad PAD G should be high (around 5v) and PAD D should have the same voltage as the end of R1.
Test the DG201
With the solo switch off there should be continuity between the following pairs of pins: 2&3,6&7,10&11,and 14&15.
With your finger on the touchpad for the section you are testing PAD P should be high.
There should not be continuity with the SOLO switch on,and PAD P should be low when touching the corresponding touchpad.
yan6
I dont have enough time to completely write this up but will followup later, I'm between coming home from work and going for turkey dinner.

Right now this is mostly how I'm feeling not this shit again

Following your last set of instructions I didn't have any five volts and started poking around from the power header and still cant believe it but found I hadn't put in the ferrite beads d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!

Of course things seem much better now, but this is where time has limited me and I need to test further. But at a glance I think the solo mode may be close to working. With the switch in the down position Row D CV is part of the Row D output and the touch pads will move and hold where they are touched. With the solo switch in the up position it seems like the CV is removed from the Row D output and the touch pads let me touch them but continue shuffling along with the clock
tojpeters
The row D out will only have voltage when a pad is being touched in solo mode.
If not then check if there is continuity from the SOLO board PAD D to the CW lug of the row D pot for that stage.
yan6
Quick update before heading off to work; I'm thinking I'm good now in solo mode, I didn't realize that in solo mode the Row D CV is generated by the touch pads but is still subject to the knob position. I had them all turned down hihi So looks good now thumbs up
yan6
I think I'm good to move on and have been trying to trouble shoot the vertical sequencer. There seems to be two issue, the first is that it never enters Row D. And the other is when set for 3-step, it doesn't reset directly from Row C back to Row A. There seems to be one clock cycle missing. The Row C led will go out, but wont toggle to Row A for one more clock cycle (16 steps on the horizontal).

Observations so far:

I can only see gate outputs from P1 - P3 & P8, I have also confirmed this with the outputs off the 4051 (nothing on Pins 1, 2, 5 & 12)

There seems to 1v constantly sitting on RSE, although the reset switch works

Changed all chips except the TL072

I have checked the switch wiring and all seems to be in place there. I have run continuity checks with the power off and have found:

switch in 2 step, continuity from RSS to P3
switch in 3 step, continuity from RSS to P4
switch in 4 step, continuity from RSS to P5
tojpeters
I have struggled with this circuit more than once.
The switch wiring seems correct based on your continuity checks.
But if there is no gate output on P4 or P5 I wouldn't expect it to reset.
Read my post way above this about finding a fix for this, and if there are no wiring issues it might be worth contacting Ken on his Yahoo group and run this past him also.
cygmu
I'm a bit lost, but if the vertical sequencing is handled by a CGS28 sequential switch, do not use a TL074 in that circuit. I know Jon has had success with some TL074s (and not with others -- alarm bells ring), but the circuit as designed is taking the input common mode far too close to the power rail and the TL074 exhibits phase reversal.

All my vertical sequencing issues on the TPS, which was done with a CGS28 in my case, were resolved when I replaced the TL074 with LM324 which can handle low inout voltage without issue.
tojpeters
Thanks for the tip.
I've on 3 different occasions had this circuit not work with a TLO74 from Texas Instruments but work fine with the STMicro version.
cygmu
Yes, I remember reading that somewhere but I couldn't find it and I couldn't remember which manufacturer was the working one. Ken is no fool so presumably it worked for him too. But the TL074 is being used way out of spec in this circuit and its just easier to go back to the 324.
yan6
The random wasn't working but after visiting the schematic I realized the the led's are required d'oh! easy fix and is working now.

So it looks like I the vertical sequencer may be the last issue for this build. I tried an LM324 and it didn't have any extra magic, same issues. I tried with and without the 4.7M and voltage divider but still nothing. I didn't really have any issues with the TPS when I built it and its using the same CGS28 for the vertical.
tojpeters
You could try swapping the chips from the working one to the non working one.
yan6
In troubleshooting I noticed by accident that if I touched the 4051 pins it started working. Playing with this more I isolated it to the last two pins of each row. After a bit of experimenting and 100nf across pins 7&8 causes it to work. I dont know how or why but at this point I'm not even sure I care.

Everything seems to be working. nanners nanners nanners nanners

And I got to say thank you so much for the amazing & detailed level of support. we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy

Next issue, craming it into a box, as it stands it isn't even close to fitting. There may be a ton of rework to shorten or move stuff to help it along. Dead Banana If only the boxes came 5" deep hihi
tojpeters
Congratulations. No problem with the troubleshooting. Now get it in the boat without breaking any wires
yan6
I came to the quick realisation that this would never fit i to a 3" deep boat with the way i had built it. There was of course only one solution, build my own deeper boat
Mr. Green








Thanks again Jon for helping bring another one of these to life. Ive now got two down and one to go nanners
tojpeters
That looks fantastic
gruvsyco
I would love to see some videos of one of these systems. After all this time, I've decided I'm going to build mine after I get my DIY easel done.
tojpeters
I'll be here to help.
tojpeters
I'll be here to help.
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