Learned Opinions Request

[DGTom]

Hi all!

I've been scouring this forum for info and have picked up alot, so thanks to all the contributors.

My elby-designs subrack should get here monday

I've been playing with photoshop tryna figure out how to stuff it with modules, so I'm at the stage where I'd like some input from the voice of reason/experiance,

heres what I have so far;



... now the first thing is the lack of VCF/VCA. I've got a Waldorf 4-Pole which will be my main VCA and VCF, its a great little box with midi and trig in, mono in / stereo out, a bunch of EGs and an LFO. The idea for the modular is a big fat oscillator bank and waveform modifier. For my music I mostly want 'regular' synth/bass sounds, but, I'm more interested in exploring FM / Additive types of synthesis, with the 4-Pole there 'just in case' I need some filter squelch.

For mults & passive mixers / attenuators I'm going to DIY a blank 19" panel so as not to chew up any precious HP. The 4-Pole has loads of gain so a passive 5/6 into 1 passive mixer will work (I hope) & for the occasions it doesn't I've got a summing mixer built around 2 old siemens broadcast modules which has loads of headroom & big fat Haufe Iron!

My main question is, will I miss a dedicated VCA? How will I go using just the dual ring mod? or should I go with the dual linear VCA instead? Theres alot of 'logic' type stuff as well, the idea being with 4/5 osc I'm shooting for alot of quasi-sequencer / semi-random 'each note with a diffferant voice' type of stuff - I do this alot with samples at the moment & would like more organic versions of those sounds.

At this stage I'm going to take a bit of a punt on the MFB midi-cv-psu as it packs alot in & covers alot of the basics I'll need to get up n running. I've emailed Manfred and it looks as tho it'll work alongside a plan b power 1 to get more modules connected (I want it as a 'safety blanket' for when I add new modules as well) & 500mA should be plenty for 1 rack.

If anyone has any input that'd be great & I'd really appreciate it. My experiance with modulars is basically confined to the VCS-3 & the VI world, crashing my old comp with sync-modular years ago & spending hours n hours building sample based step sequencers in reaktor!

Thanks for reading,

[elemental]

I'd replace the MFB and Doepfer VCO's with a Plan B, AFG (if you can wait) or a Cwejman VCO, and then use that space for a VCA, ideally with both linear and exponential curves available. You'll be able to use the ELF LFO as a modulator or 2nd osc. Depends how important stuff like linear FM is to you ... if you need lots of oscillators but not bothered about FM sounds then what you got there might be better... i'd just replace the Doepfer standard osc with the high end one.

[DGTom]

Thanks for the input elemental.

I think you are right, the MFB would make a nice 'its there but I don't always use it' kind of osc (you could justify that cos it sooo cheap) like one to use when you wanna make a dumb mega unison/detuned sound. Not great for a main basic osc, but from the demos I've heard the pwm is nice, but, prob one for the 2nd rack.

So, the Plan B does linear FM? The demos are great & the scope of its waveforms, that with a wavesplicer + ELF LFO + Multipler will keep me making odd waveforms till the cows come home!

Its not so much the wait for the AFG, its more that its a monster, & once I have 1 rack of euro I wanna get a rack of Frac, then another euro... thats the plan at the moment, if it makes sense (odds are I will end up with half n half of both before very long...)

One thing I really wanna stick to is having at least 3 Oscs (even if 2 are really LFOs) in this rack, so I rekon plan b will feature quite heavily

.

A question for anyone with both the ModDemod and Doepfer Dual Ring Mod; will I miss much by not having the A114? I have the ring mod in the EMS & I think that with the makenoise module will have me covered.

I'm thinking with VCAs it might be worth waiting on the forthcoming A-132-3. I like that it can be used both ways.

[Chuck E. Jesus]

you might want to consider the Cwejman VCO2RM and a Plan B osc..then you'd have 3 oscs and a ring mod, you might not need another ring mod ...of course that's a large chunk of change, but combined with the Wavesplicer, you could get lots of wave madness going...i also think the Plan B and Cwej would be a good compliment to each other...i have the VCO2RM, the PLan B is on my wish list...

[chimologic]

I would replace the doepfer ring modulator for one of those doepfer double vca's. , sometimes you are goign to want both a filter and a VCA in your patch, plus you can also use vca's for control voltage modifications. AM synthesis, etc.


plan b lfo doubles as an oscillator when necessary, so tahts a great choice, and you could look into fitting another one in there, if you think you need more osc.

Also one thing to note about the mfb oscillator:

positive: yes you get 3 oscillators in a small amount of space, and sounds good for the most part (see negative).

negative (and I don't see this anywhere in the specs but know for experience): CV on the mfs oscillators does not respond at all to negative voltages. so fm is super weak sounding.


C.

[felix]

I'd agree, replace the Doepfer dual ring mod with a dual VCA. I would suggest this one:

http://www.analoguehaven.com/doepfer/a132-3/

It's twice the space (8HP), but twice the features as well. The offset (Gain) and CV input attenuation are real big pluses, as is the Exp/Linear switch. One could be your main volume VCA (exp), and the other can be for control signals (lin).

Very useful for a smaller system.

[DGTom]

Thanks guys, much food for thought

Good looking on the MFB OSC-01 and weak FM chimologic (thats the only issue I have with MFB @ the moment, kinda hard to get details) The MFB does do some sounds that I like - the demos on the site have some great examples of PWM/Ring Mod sounds, but for all its 3 oscs, its oddly kind of a '1 trick pony'

Nice one Felix! That dual VCA is a goer - thanks for the link, the Doepfer site still has it as pending, but if AH has it, sweet! Would be a great utility I feel, anything that doubles up functions in a small case is a big plus.

So heres my revision;



The option for 3 osc / FM + loads of waveform tweaking, I love those filtered sounds that don't use a filter so with the modDemod, waveslicer & wave multiplier + the ablity to modulate the Plan Bs morph & lock it all up to clock & throw the Waldorf filter in for trad subtractive sounds, or even self osc. filter sine waves, I'm liking where this is going

The VCO2RM is 'on the list' I would like to have a basic system before going that deep on a single osc. I don't doubt its great quality - I really like the way they are going with the I/O modules and stereo EQ/Comps... forget 500 series - go euro! VC EQ and Compression

T.

[felix]

Nice one Felix! That dual VCA is a goer - thanks for the link, the Doepfer site still has it as pending, but if AH has it, sweet! Would be a great utility I feel, anything that doubles up functions in a small case is a big plus.

No prob. I just got one myself. They just went up on AH on Saturday (or maybe it was Friday).

[elemental]

One other thing you might want to consider if you're gonna get a rack of Frac stuff next: I now have both the Doepfer Wave Multiplier and the STG Wave Folder. Both have a really different sound; the Doepfer is quite harsh and brittle sounding; which is good in some situations but wasnt what I was hoping for; the STG was totally what I was looking for, smooth range between silent, clean and grinding :-) really warm fat tones. Highly recomended.

[REwire]

You have an ASR in there. To work effectively, you should at least three VCO's and an LFO to clock it. I don't think you'll get much out of it with the configuration you have.

About the MFB Triple - they have a new one that's a Triple VCO rather than the DCO's you first selected.

[consumed]

You have an ASR in there. To work effectively, you should at least three VCO's and an LFO to clock it. I don't think you'll get much out of it with the configuration you have.

an ASR is really just a fancy s&h with a couple extra sequential outputs, right? so he could use the asr to feed anything with cv inputs, including that wave multiplier.

i like that this system has no filter.

[timmah]

I've been playing with photoshop tryna figure out how to stuff it with modules,

or you could just use

http://mega.modularplanner.co.uk/standard.html

[DGTom]

You have an ASR in there. To work effectively, you should at least three VCO's and an LFO to clock it. I don't think you'll get much out of it with the configuration you have.

I was thinking it could also be clocked from say one of the clock divider outputs? So that its lock to a time base? Or even note on gate, so its state changes with each new note?

an ASR is really just a fancy s&h with a couple extra sequential outputs, right? so he could use the asr to feed anything with cv inputs, including that wave multiplier.

And you can feed it CV as well? Which would then be distributed to various CV inputs. I'm thinking lots of cool tempo sync'd processes by say trig'ing an adsr from one clock div, feeding it thru the ASR clocked on another time base, so the varying cv produced by the adsr modulates differant functions one after the other.

i like that this system has no filter.

[DGTom]

One other thing you might want to consider if you're gonna get a rack of Frac stuff next: I now have both the Doepfer Wave Multiplier and the STG Wave Folder. Both have a really different sound; the Doepfer is quite harsh and brittle sounding; which is good in some situations but wasnt what I was hoping for; the STG was totally what I was looking for, smooth range between silent, clean and grinding :-) really warm fat tones. Highly recomended.

Nice one man, do you have the STG next to the Doepfer? Do they compliment each other, or do you just get what you want from the STG?

The "gain control" knob and its associated jack allow modulation of the discrete VCA driving the wavefolding diode network. This allows the Wave Folder to be used as a VCA which can be very easily edged into distortion.

This is one thing I'm after! Tho, from the demos on the doepfer home page it sounds to me like the Wave Multiplier is really best when having its cv inputs worked hard to vary the waveform over time. Is the STG as good at those kind of 'pseudo filter effects'? I get the feeling they'd work really well together! & it looks like I'm gonna have Frac next to Euro sooner than I thought First on the fracrack list is some Metalbox drum modules!!!

or you could just use

http://mega.modularplanner.co.uk/standard.html

Cheers mate!


Thanks everyone for all your help!

Another question; How are people using the ASR? (maybe thats better for a seperate thread)

[felix]

Another question; How are people using the ASR? (maybe thats better for a seperate thread)

Yes please, would make a good separate thread.

[parasitk]

Is the STG as good at those kind of 'pseudo filter effects'?

Absolutely! It's also great after a filter. I love that module.

[DGTom]

About the MFB Triple - they have a new one that's a Triple VCO rather than the DCO's you first selected.

I kind of like the 'digital' nature of the OSC-01. I don't mind DCOs, not an analog purist at all. From what I've heard the 01 does those 80's synth sounds really well.

I've gone with the Plan B for my 1st VCO tho, I think thats the best option for waveform exploration!

[DGTom]

Is the STG as good at those kind of 'pseudo filter effects'?

Absolutely! It's also great after a filter. I love that module.

oooooo nice... Yeah, the Wave Folder seems like you could use it as the VCA on performance enhancers to end all VCAs!!

I imagine some absurd tones by feeding the inputs with an osc signal pre & post filter

(plus it looks ssssooooooo GOOD! All the STG stuff is crazy good looking!!!)

[parasitk]

Yep! I use it as a VCA frequently. Fantastic module - wave shaping from creamy to grinding (but it's never really harsh at all).

[DGTom]

Waiting for modules!!! (& PSU...)



WOOT!

For any Aussies looking for a non-DIY rack option, elby-designs subracks are GREAT! Ordered late Thurs nite, arrived early Tues. 5 mins + 1 screwdriver = assembled. Very nice, clean metalwork & looks great. I need some washers tho... my skbs screws are tiny!

[timmah]

^^^^^

nice Putney