random*source love

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

Moderators: Joe., luketeaford, lisa, Kent

Post Reply
pelang
Common Wiggler
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:30 pm
Location: switzerland
Contact:

Post by pelang » Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:17 am

cloudleft wrote:Are all 5 of the R*S NTO's wave outputs simultaneously available? If so, is there any noticeable change in gain behavior when patching out multiple waves?

Thanks!
Yes, all simultaneous. Gain stays the same to my ears.

User avatar
cloudleft
Common Wiggler
Posts: 130
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:59 am
Location: NYC

Post by cloudleft » Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:02 am

Amazing, thank you!

tnktni
Common Wiggler
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:08 pm
Location: usa

Post by tnktni » Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:08 am

Q: Wondering if the Make Noise MMG is inspired by/comparable to the VCFQ? It looks like they both have multi inputs and a ping/strike input.

Also, how are folks dealing with the input level mismatch between Eurorack level modules and Serge level inputs? I am finding this to be sort of a deal breaker, as adding more preamps/attenuators seems to interface as a bit of a pain. Or are the mismatch not that big of a deal for you, and just go straight in?

User avatar
pugix
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3502
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:23 am
Location: Asheville, NC
Contact:

Post by pugix » Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:51 pm

tnktni wrote:Q: Wondering if the Make Noise MMG is inspired by/comparable to the VCFQ? It looks like they both have multi inputs and a ping/strike input.

Also, how are folks dealing with the input level mismatch between Eurorack level modules and Serge level inputs? I am finding this to be sort of a deal breaker, as adding more preamps/attenuators seems to interface as a bit of a pain. Or are the mismatch not that big of a deal for you, and just go straight in?
There's no mismatch at all. +/-5V is pretty standard. Serge control voltages are also generally +/-5V, because the Serge philosophy is that signal and control distinctions are up to the user, rather than the designer.
Richard
https://www.pugix.com

FS: US only - Mutable Instruments Streams

"Everything in our world is actually always modulated by everything else." - Peter B

tnktni
Common Wiggler
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:08 pm
Location: usa

Post by tnktni » Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:09 pm

pugix wrote:There's no mismatch at all. +/-5V is pretty standard. Serge control voltages are also generally +/-5V, because the Serge philosophy is that signal and control distinctions are up to the user, rather than the designer.
Thanks for the response. I thought the R*S modules expected lower voltage levels and also output lower levels as well? Based on what is mentioned in this Learning Modular video:
https://youtu.be/_NfLt89sHuA

User avatar
woodster
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1343
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:36 am
Location: UK

Post by woodster » Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:59 pm

I certainly find it helpful to attenuate some Euro VCO's going directly into the TWS+, It works ok without attenuation, but it really does shine with some.
As far as wider integration of things like the DUSG, and SSG goes, it's as Pugix says.

tnktni
Common Wiggler
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:08 pm
Location: usa

Post by tnktni » Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:27 pm

woodster wrote:I certainly find it helpful to attenuate some Euro VCO's going directly into the TWS+, It works ok without attenuation, but it really does shine with some.
As far as wider integration of things like the DUSG, and SSG goes, it's as Pugix says.
Ah ok, thanks for the clarification!

User avatar
stickmann
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 277
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:50 am
Location: Land of Enchantment

Post by stickmann » Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:59 pm

I plugged in my R*S Euro modules into an oscilloscope and I am only seeing a peak-to-peak voltage of 5v for the NTO, DUSG, and SSG. For the NTO it is bipolar +/- 2.5v and the DUSG / SSG are unipolar, approximately 0 to +5v. Certainly this is a problem for standard +/- 5v Eurorack where many modules will be expecting a 10v peak-to-peak signal. I have noticed it is hit or miss in fully opening Eurorack VCAs with the R*S Serge modules, especially if you want any saturation of the signal. Filter modulation could also be an issue being unable to sweep fully.

I believe the solution to this problem is to buy more R*S EuroSerge or go 4U.

User avatar
BTG
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1229
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:32 pm
Location: USA

Post by BTG » Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:00 pm

Anyone know where to get fully assembled systems?

tnktni
Common Wiggler
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:08 pm
Location: usa

Post by tnktni » Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:51 pm

stickmann wrote:I plugged in my R*S Euro modules into an oscilloscope and I am only seeing a peak-to-peak voltage of 5v for the NTO, DUSG, and SSG. For the NTO it is bipolar +/- 2.5v and the DUSG / SSG are unipolar, approximately 0 to +5v. Certainly this is a problem for standard +/- 5v Eurorack where many modules will be expecting a 10v peak-to-peak signal. I have noticed it is hit or miss in fully opening Eurorack VCAs with the R*S Serge modules, especially if you want any saturation of the signal. Filter modulation could also be an issue being unable to sweep fully.

I believe the solution to this problem is to buy more R*S EuroSerge or go 4U.
Thanks for checking this. It appears that video I posted above mentioned similar issues and thus attenuated signal in and amplified signals out. Seems like these modules are intended more as a system-of-its-own more than playing friendly with other Euro modules...

User avatar
stickmann
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 277
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:50 am
Location: Land of Enchantment

Post by stickmann » Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:05 pm

I believe the idea was to match the R*S 4U signal levels so that the two formats could interface. I would also think it is a lot of work to convert all of your designs to accommodate the hotter signals in Euro. Unfortunately there are no standards in Euro so this is what we have to deal with.

User avatar
gummyboy
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 423
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:30 am
Location: Seoul

Post by gummyboy » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:16 am

I think I saw somewhere but I can't find anymore...

Does color around the jacks mean anything on modules?
I think I read that black treats +/-, white does only +, red does cv signal....as I remember. But I am totally not sure.

Big Thanks!!!!!

User avatar
paterursus
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 342
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:55 pm
Location: Virginia, USA

Post by paterursus » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:52 am

BTG wrote:Anyone know where to get fully assembled systems?
Systems or modules? Fully assembled modules are available direct from RandomSource as well as from Perfect Circuit in the US - possibly others. Don't know about systems.
Wiggling in the 16th century
Lots of Eurorack modules for sale

User avatar
stickmann
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 277
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:50 am
Location: Land of Enchantment

Post by stickmann » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:06 am

gummyboy wrote:I think I saw somewhere but I can't find anymore...

Does color around the jacks mean anything on modules?
I think I read that black treats +/-, white does only +, red does cv signal....as I remember. But I am totally not sure.

Big Thanks!!!!!
You're right on Black (bipolar +/-) and White (unipolar + only) but the Red indicates a Trigger / Square out.

User avatar
gummyboy
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 423
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:30 am
Location: Seoul

Post by gummyboy » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:37 pm

stickmann wrote: but the Red indicates a Trigger / Square out.
That includes CV out too right? like SEQ8 XL?

What happens if I feed bipolar signal into white colored input like VCM middle section "IN 2"? Does it clip?

Another one fro VCM.
Does "IN 2" on the bottom have similar function as "IN 2" in the middle section as just combining 2 signals?

Big Thanks!!!!!

User avatar
Waz
Wiggling with Scurvy
Posts: 2746
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:36 pm
Location: Detroit

Post by Waz » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:15 pm

Deleted

User avatar
blackjam
Common Wiggler
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:13 am
Location: Norwich, UK

Post by blackjam » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:20 am

The VCFQ IS amazing, I may be out of euro for a while, but when I get back in, that and the NTO will be at the top of the list
FS: Lamond 104hp 12U powered case

User avatar
stickmann
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 277
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:50 am
Location: Land of Enchantment

Post by stickmann » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:43 am

gummyboy wrote:
stickmann wrote: but the Red indicates a Trigger / Square out.
That includes CV out too right? like SEQ8 XL?

What happens if I feed bipolar signal into white colored input like VCM middle section "IN 2"? Does it clip?

Another one fro VCM.
Does "IN 2" on the bottom have similar function as "IN 2" in the middle section as just combining 2 signals?

Big Thanks!!!!!
I'm only seeing trigger signals labeled with red on the Seq8XL. The CV A, B, and A-B are white, as expected. Which CV outs are you referring to?

I try not to let colors discourage me from experimenting. The Seq8XL suggests trying out different trigger waveforms for clocking, for example. There are a few VCM reviews that go over the different inputs and how to achieve interesting feedback. I have seen voltage go higher than +5v on the VCM outputs so might have to consider that but Serge modules have gain control and most Euro can handle signals +/-10v. I only have problems with nasty clipping going into the VCFQ, but that has gain input and the AGC inputs to deal with that. I find the gentle saturation available on most modules (VCM, RingMod, StereoMix) pleasant.

User avatar
thetaflux
Common Wiggler
Posts: 149
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 7:00 pm

Post by thetaflux » Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:55 pm

tnktni wrote:
pugix wrote:There's no mismatch at all. +/-5V is pretty standard. Serge control voltages are also generally +/-5V, because the Serge philosophy is that signal and control distinctions are up tthe user, rather than the designer.
Thanks for the response. I thought the R*S modules expected lower voltage levels and also output lower levels as well? Based on what is mentioned in this Learning Modular video:
https://youtu.be/_NfLt89sHuA
The R*S serge modules all expect +-5V, but many modules in the euro realm go from 0-10v or 0-8v depending on the whims of the mfg. so if you put the raw output of a DPO into the VCFQ the filter will clip and distort. thankfully some modules have built in attenuators on their inputs/gain controls, but having one or two extra attenuators for the few inputs that don't have their own will be useful. by no means is it a dealbreaker though

User avatar
gummyboy
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 423
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:30 am
Location: Seoul

Post by gummyboy » Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:56 pm

stickmann wrote: I'm only seeing trigger signals labeled with red on the Seq8XL. The CV A, B, and A-B are white, as expected. Which CV outs are you referring to?
My bad..... you are right.
stickmann wrote: I try not to let colors discourage me from experimenting. The Seq8XL suggests trying out different trigger waveforms for clocking, for example. There are a few VCM reviews that go over the different inputs and how to achieve interesting feedback. I have seen voltage go higher than +5v on the VCM outputs so might have to consider that but Serge modules have gain control and most Euro can handle signals +/-10v. I only have problems with nasty clipping going into the VCFQ, but that has gain input and the AGC inputs to deal with that. I find the gentle saturation available on most modules (VCM, RingMod, StereoMix) pleasant.
I see. I will look into it. Thanks!!

User avatar
InnnerSight
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 265
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2016 3:54 am
Location: Kent, UK

Post by InnnerSight » Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:07 pm

I miss my Verbos random, that thing was so musical.

User avatar
pugix
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3502
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:23 am
Location: Asheville, NC
Contact:

Post by pugix » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:15 pm

thetaflux wrote:
tnktni wrote:
pugix wrote:There's no mismatch at all. +/-5V is pretty standard. Serge control voltages are also generally +/-5V, because the Serge philosophy is that signal and control distinctions are up tthe user, rather than the designer.
Thanks for the response. I thought the R*S modules expected lower voltage levels and also output lower levels as well? Based on what is mentioned in this Learning Modular video:
https://youtu.be/_NfLt89sHuA
The R*S serge modules all expect +-5V, but many modules in the euro realm go from 0-10v or 0-8v depending on the whims of the mfg. so if you put the raw output of a DPO into the VCFQ the filter will clip and distort. thankfully some modules have built in attenuators on their inputs/gain controls, but having one or two extra attenuators for the few inputs that don't have their own will be useful. by no means is it a dealbreaker though
Doesn't your VCFQ have an input attenuator? It's labelled Gain. There's also an AGC input. My CGS VCFQs have an attenuator on the input.
Richard
https://www.pugix.com

FS: US only - Mutable Instruments Streams

"Everything in our world is actually always modulated by everything else." - Peter B

shanebroderick
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:24 pm
Location: Boston

Post by shanebroderick » Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:59 pm

Does anyone have any thoughts or experience with the "Equal Power Stereo Mixer"?

I used to have an STS Animal... loved the functionality of this module and sound of the VCA's.

I noticed that this module is one of the only ones in their Serge line to not be Serge Licensed or even say Serge on the module itself and wondered why.

User avatar
FatRocky
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2717
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:56 pm

Post by FatRocky » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:45 pm

i-m just getting into the euro Serge from Random Source , i already started selling stuff to get more...

one question to older users:

Is it real that once you get into the RS euro Serge seriously then next step is jumping into the 4u wagon? :eek: :hmm:

User avatar
stickmann
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 277
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:50 am
Location: Land of Enchantment

Post by stickmann » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:41 pm

Shanebrodrick, there is a thread in the Eurorack section about the Stereo Mixer. It still looks like the only feedback is my own.

viewtopic.php?t=191896&start=0&postdays ... highlight=

FatRocky, I have a near complete R*S EuroSerge system and am constantly thinking about going 4U but haven't done it yet. I think there are pros and cons to going 4U. Probably the biggest pro for 4U is the Bananas but there is a lack of mixing and utilities available in the current R*S Serge, in my opinion. Eurorack gives you a few miscellaneous extra input attenuators on some modules, which is nice. I'd highly recommend stackcables if you stay in Euro. If you already have some Euro it can mix in well as long as you consider voltage levels. I had a Multistage originally mixed in with my Euroserge but the voltage level mismatch was annoying. Serge feels more like a static instrument to me which can conflict with the Euro world where cool new modules come out every quarter. If you can resist the urge to buy and sell new modules then ultimately I don't think taking a loss to go 4U is worth it. That is what I keep telling myself, anyway.

Post Reply

Return to “Eurorack Modules”