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Moon 564 tips?
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Author Moon 564 tips?
ba1
I've pretty much been using it with the done out of a Q119 into the sift input to select the repeats of the trigger outs. I can't figure out what to do with the out/in or in/out jacks. Any suggestions on ways to use it with a Q119, Yusynth clock divider or 8 step trigger sequencer would be appreciated.
bwhittington
The out/in and in/outs are for bi-directional switching, controlled by the shift input.

Patch the individual row cv outputs of the Q119 into in/out's 1-3. Then patch the out/in to your VCO. Then patch a gate into the shift input. The 564 will switch between the outputs rows of the Q119 with each pulse to the shift input. For this patch, the fourth rotary switch should be set to "skip."

Then, use the rotary switches to count the number of pulses the 564 will remain on a given row. In position 1, it shifts every time a pulse is received. In position 2, it shifts after 2 pulses, etc.

It sounds like you were just a little lost as to how to patch the module, so hopefully this basic patch will open up some new ideas about how to use it. It is a very powerful switch; one of the best modules in the Moon line, I think. Also don't forget that you can use it to switch between audio sources as well as CV. You can use it to change sequencer rows, oscillator waveforms, trigger patterns, EG outputs, the works! And you can use reverse the in/outs to send one input to four different outputs instead.

JohnLRice
Yup. like bwhittington said! thumbs up

In addition and FWIW here are a couple demos I did that combined a Q119 anda M564:



Squattamolie
Besides switching rows, one thing very useful about these switches is that each stage has a steady 5V output (Trig out), for any stage that is active. I have found that useable in various ways. For instance, if you are using all four channels of the 564, you could take (say) trig outs 1 and 3, run them into a mixer, and then use that output into the CV in of a VCA, to start (or stop) letting an audio or CV signal through, or change what is going through a Q111 Pan/Fade module, or switch between the inputs (or output destinations) of a Q128, or run the output into an attenuator, and then use it as an added CV offset into the pitch in of your VCOs (so that certain channels of the 564 would cause the base pitch of the sequenced row to modulate up a certain amount), etc.

I have two 564s, and two Q962s, and I've actually found this function (the steady 5V out of any active stage) to be useful enough that I'll often be using one of the switches only for that, not even feeding anything into them.
ba1
Thanks guys! All is clear except for some aspects of John's video, mostly because I'm not familiar with the MOM divider. Anyway, Trying to figure it out with my Yusynth divider yielded some similar/interesting results. Much appreciated!
JohnLRice
ba1 wrote:
Thanks guys! All is clear except for some aspects of John's video, mostly because I'm not familiar with the MOM divider.
The MOTM-730 is a one in - multiple division out divider with several unique and fancy tricks up its sleeve. Here's the page with the details:
http://synthtech.com/motm/730/



Let me know if you have questions on how I used it! (I'll see if I can remember! hihi )
Squattamolie
bwhittington wrote:



One option I'd add to this great graphic that Brian provided is this: take one of the 3 row outputs of the sequencer (say, row 1), and must it, then feed it into two of the 4 channels of the 564. This way, you can get patterns like A-B-A-C. I do that a fair amount.
bwhittington
ba1 wrote:
I'm not familiar with the MOM divider.




One that I like is using a switch as a second sequencer. By patching static voltages into the inputs, shown here from a Moon Reversible Attenuator, you create a four stage sequencer. Useful for transposing another sequence by mixing the voltages together (either with a mixer, the add input on the Q119, or the second exp in on a Q106). Or for patching an independent sequence, for a bass line or whatever else.

An active attenuator is an easy place to grab those voltages, but they are available from a lot other of modules, too.

JohnLRice
bwhittington wrote:
One that I like is using a switch as a second sequencer. By patching static voltages into the inputs, shown here from a Moon Reversible Attenuator, you create a four stage sequencer.
thumbs up

Putte
There are lots of information and some videos of the M564, but I still can´t figure out how to patch it up with a M569.
In my system, a Q960 usually works as clock, which pulse is divided by a M554. One of its divided pulses drives a M569.
Now, what if I want to use a M569 and a M564 in what, at least I think, is the most obvious way, the M569 in 4X8 mode, and the M564 to control how many times each M569-row plays, before changing to the next one?
Can someone tell me how to patch that one up, what goes where? From there, I can probably figure out more advanced things.
JohnLRice
Putte wrote:
There are lots of information and some videos of the M564, but I still can´t figure out how to patch it up with a M569.
In my system, a Q960 usually works as clock, which pulse is divided by a M554. One of its divided pulses drives a M569.
Now, what if I want to use a M569 and a M564 in what, at least I think, is the most obvious way, the M569 in 4X8 mode, and the M564 to control how many times each M569-row plays, before changing to the next one?
Can someone tell me how to patch that one up, what goes where? From there, I can probably figure out more advanced things.
I typically prefer to use an external clock and divider but a lot can be done with just a 569 + 564. Just patch the 4 CV out jacks of the 569 into the 4 IN/OUT jacks of the 564 and then patch one of the 569's Gate outputs (row 4 in this example) to the 564's Shift input. The 564's single OUT/IN jack goes to your VCO's etc. Then turn off all the gate switches on the 569 except for step 1 and then the use the divider selector on the 564 to determine how many times each row plays.
Putte
Thanks so much, John. Among all the great information I´ve been given here, that could be the most valuable.
Does this mean triggering steps on and off is impossible in combination with the M564? What about the TRIG IN inputs in the upper left part of the M564, and the TRIG OUT 1-4 row?
JohnLRice
Putte wrote:
Does this mean triggering steps on and off is impossible in combination with the M564?
No, while you'd want to dedicate one row's gates to shifting the 564, you still have three other rows worth of gates to choose from for firing your envelope generators etc. So in the above diagram just take the the gate output of row one on the 569 to fire EG and then switch steps on and off as needed. Even though you aren't always getting CV from row 1, you can use the gates from row one for all CV rows.

Putte wrote:
What about the TRIG IN inputs in the upper left part of the M564, and the TRIG OUT 1-4 row?
The TRIG IN forces the 564 to that stage and the TRIG OUTs fire when a stage becomes active. Lot's of different ways to use them . . .for instance you could use another simpler switch like the Q962 or similar along with the 564 and have the 564 force the Q962 to a particular stage using the 564 TRIG OUTs, and that way you get the divider benefits of the 564 for what ever you are switching with the Q962. Like in the patch image I posted you could patch the gate outputs of rows 1, 2 and 3 of the 569 to a Q962 and the Q962 output sent the the EG so you could have three different gate patterns auto switching along with the CV switching.
Putte
That´s more or less like one row becomes useless, other than drive the shifting of the M564. It seems like all it does is to send a 1/8 sequence pulse to trigger the shift.
I´m thinking that could be done in other ways. Normally my sequencers clocking goes via a Q124 to two EG:s, one for VCA and one for a filter. That leaves one output in the Q124. What if I patch it to a M554 Octal clock divider, setting the output to 1/8. In that way, I can feed the M564 with a pulse/Clock, 1/8 of the sequencers clock.
I could also have the first row/step output on the Q960 do that, if the two sequencers are synchronized.
Hard to explain. Did anyone follow? Not sure I did myself.
JohnLRice
Putte wrote:
That´s more or less like one row becomes useless, other than drive the shifting of the M564. It seems like all it does is to send a 1/8 sequence pulse to trigger the shift.
Well, you still have the CV output of the row, I'd hardly call that useless! Plus you don't have to just have one step on to shift the 564, try turning on other steps, evenly for faster shifting or odd amounts for uneven shifting, very playable!

Putte wrote:
I´m thinking that could be done in other ways.
Well of course! confused I thought you wanted ideas on how to work it with JUST a 569 and 564 . . . if you can add more modules in then the possibilities are practically limitless!
Putte
Well, useless might be to much said, but it certainly takes some of the fun away. I usually have different kinds of on and off trigger rythms.
Anyway, I´ll see if I kind find some kind of convenient solution.
I was thinking I could sell my M563 now, but I guess I might need it to trigger the M569/M564 combo.
ba1
How did I miss the whole "mom divider" thing? Another chapter in my trail of stupidity... d'oh!
Squattamolie
JohnLRice wrote:
....and the TRIG OUTs fire when a stage becomes active. Lot's of different ways to use them . . .


This is something that both the 564 and Q962 does that I've found really useful - they (the trigger out jacks) are marked "trigger" but they're not, they're 5V gates that hold high as long as the stage in question is active. In other words, when a given stage is active, the "trigger" out for that stage holds at a steady 5V - which can be used for all sorts of madness. One use is feeding it (the trigger out for a given stage) into, say, an extra attenuated input of a VCO or bank, so that one or more VCOs in a voice transpose (up a 4th or 5th or octave or whatever) but only when a specific 564/962 stage is active, or sending it (again, attenuated) into the VC rate input of a VC LFO so there is faster LFO modulation only for one stage of the 564, or to enable to change the amount of slew on a voice, or on and on and on.....

When you ponder this you'll start thinking of many different things this can be used for. I mentioned in some thread here on Muffs a while ago that I have several VC switches like these and that I sometimes use one only for this function (sending a trigger to select a stage that then sends a steady 5V out to somewhere)....very handy!
Putte
I´ve solved the problem. I took me a second M569 and a M554.
-One M569 takes care of 4x8 signal steps (all trigger switches set to ON), together with the M564 alternating the four rows
-The M554 takes care of switching every eight steps
-The second M569 is set to 1x32 steps, used for triggering

Another way would have been to gather all the first M569s four gate signals with a mixer, but none were available.
BTG
I see there's a 564 v2 out now -- anyone know what the story is there?
JohnLRice
BTG wrote:
I see there's a 564 v2 out now -- anyone know what the story is there?
I have one on order now so I'll comment on any differences I can see when it arrives.
bwhittington
That isn't new, is it? The v2 pcb is dated 2010. I have two 564's and I think they are both v2.
JohnLRice
bwhittington wrote:
That isn't new, is it? The v2 pcb is dated 2010. I have two 564's and I think they are both v2.
haha, maybe it's very old news? hmmm..... hihi I just looked and my current one is V1.2 from 2008. And I'm not getting a version 2 as an "upgrade", I'm getting it because I want to use two of them at the same time! Mr. Green
bwhittington
JohnLRice wrote:
I'm getting it because I want to use two of them at the same time! Mr. Green


Always the best reason! I had three at one point, though that did seem a bit much. We get impulsive sometimes. But you have two 569's now, right? You need two of everything!
JohnLRice
bwhittington wrote:
JohnLRice wrote:
I'm getting it because I want to use two of them at the same time! Mr. Green


Always the best reason! I had three at one point, though that did seem a bit much. We get impulsive sometimes. But you have two 569's now, right? You need two of everything!
I actually have THREE 569 sequencers! eek! oops I partially blame Mark R! hihi Two of them are in my main 5U system and one is in a skinny portable sequencer box. Both 564s will be going in the main system though to work with just one 569, mostly. I was experimenting with sending the outputs of two 569EGB modules to one 569ES module via a 591 manual switch. And then it occurred to me that if I had two 564s I could do the same thing (to an extent) but automated with another sequencer or source of gates etc. hyper Yes . . . idle thoughts are a modular addiction's play things!
Dead Banana

Here's what the case in question will look like soon. w00t The 564 on the left looks "weird" because I modified it to be able to be a CV sequencer. Mr. Green


For those not familiar with the Moon modules I mentioned, the 591 is a quad manual switch that can route pairs of inputs to pairs of outputs. Switching pairs at the same time can be important if you want to switch related CV and gate signals together for instance:


The 569EGB (two in the upper right corner of the case image) provides a selectable step gate output for each row of the 569 sequencer, and more than one can be connected at the same time. The 569ES (lower right corner of the case image) makes set inputs for all 32 steps available at once. (set inputs force the sequence position to that step) By using two Set inputs on one row with gates from other rows or sources, interesting and complex patterns can be achieved. w00t (using one set point is very cool but two or more is where the magic starts to happen! hihi Om )

I had initially tried using the 591 to switch pairs of gates into the set inputs and it was pretty cool but with the 564 sitting right next to it I tried setting up some automatic switching for one of the two gates, and it was cooler. Then I though . . .if I had TWO 564s I could automate switching both gates into the set inputs! hyper meh hyper
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