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Befaco Crush Delay v2 info available!
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author Befaco Crush Delay v2 info available!
Befacosynth
Ladies and gentlemen, lovers of PT2399, we have good news!
We have uploaded eagle files for our new version of Crush Delay! Taking a bit further PT2399 into digital junk generation and improving signal routing and control.

To take a quick look to schematic, see here. Or Eagle file here.

As addons to a classical PT2399 delay, it has a couple of VCAs in both inputs, an exponential converter for Delay time control, an automatic gain control to keep glitches and noises under control and a couple of bends to the chip to be able to expand digital garbage range even further!

A monster of digital noise generation... with echo-delay possibilities! wink
sammy123
Looks nice. Are those led bezels around the switches?

Can the delay time be synched?
Befacosynth
sammy123 wrote:
Looks nice. Are those led bezels around the switches?


Nope, conic nuts. Make them look nice but not bright!

sammy123 wrote:
Can the delay time be synched?


Nope, no synch. All efforts were made to drive PT2399 as further as possible in noise generation (powering it close to 7v and exp converter in seed control). Also signal routing and tweaks here and there , but no synch!

We made a quick (and nasty quality) video. You can see that half of the Speed pot is in noise area. razz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0Rm6Pl3wsU
maltemark
Seems like it takes the PT to its limits! Very nice!
thetwlo
is there an updated build guide?

I bought just the panel/PCB.
The Crush Delay Manual v2.4 doesn't seem like it's for this:
https://befaco.org/img/Modulos/crush_delay_v2/Crush_delay_v2.4_manual. pdf

Yet, the board says v2.4 on it. hmmm.....

It states that the Main PCB is the "small" one, they appear to be the same size.
Also says the LM13700's are pre-soldered-they are not.

But then I started trying to build it, and the diodes are labelled D1-6,
but there's 3 different types of diodes, and the manual states they are labeled as such on the PCB.

So this seems totally different from these PCBs.
Where is the correct manual?
thanks!!!
thetwlo
also, the resistors don't even seem to fit on the board!
are they supposed to be standing up? the screen print shows them laying down.
So confused, ordered all the parts, but the documentation seems totally different from the boards.
hmmm..... seriously, i just don't get it seriously, i just don't get it seriously, i just don't get it
Befacosynth
thetwlo wrote:
is there an updated build guide?

I bought just the panel/PCB.
The Crush Delay Manual v2.4 doesn't seem like it's for this:
https://befaco.org/img/Modulos/crush_delay_v2/Crush_delay_v2.4_manual. pdf

It states that the Main PCB is the "small" one, they appear to be the same size.
Also says the LM13700's are pre-soldered-they are not.

But then I started trying to build it, and the diodes are labelled D1-6,
but there's 3 different types of diodes, and the manual states they are labeled as such on the PCB.

So this seems totally different from these PCBs.
Where is the correct manual?
thanks!!!


PCB sets are sold without SMD soldered. It's a shame to steal the joy of soldering from you! wink
Wich version of PCB did u got? Just in case I just uploaded updated 2.4 docu.
If you went the pcb way I would strongly suggest to use the eagle files on the web to assist on your build. Docu is quite kit/workshop oriented and not providing all the info you can get from the schematic.

thetwlo wrote:
also, the resistors don't even seem to fit on the board!
are they supposed to be standing up? the screen print shows them laying down.
So confused, ordered all the parts, but the documentation seems totally different from the boards.
hmmm..... seriously, i just don't get it seriously, i just don't get it seriously, i just don't get it


Seems you got 1/4W resistors. We normally use 1/8W. anyway standing resistors are ok as you are plenty of space!
thetwlo
I have the 2.4 boards, but the v2.4 manual doesn't seem to go with it.
I ordered from the v2.4 list, but it didn't specify 1/8w resistors. seriously, i just don't get it

But the manual doesn't seem to be for the v2.4 boards.

thanks!
Befacosynth
thetwlo wrote:
I have the 2.4 boards, but the v2.4 manual doesn't seem to go with it.
I ordered from the v2.4 list, but it didn't specify 1/8w resistors. seriously, i just don't get it

But the manual doesn't seem to be for the v2.4 boards.

thanks!


doublechecked docu with BOM exported from eagle files and they match. hmmm.....
thetwlo
weird, there must be something wrong with my PCB, it is not labeled at all like the build doc, can't find any of these diodes named as it states: my PCB shows only generic D1-D7 (which doesn't even add up with the doc) and no way to distinguish between types:


Same problem on the control PCB as well.
thetwlo
Actually, I installed the Eagle viewer, and it looks like my PCB, but doesn't match the v2.4 build doc. So I'm very confused.

The pic(previous post) of the diodes from the build guide are not on my PCB or labeled as the guide states in the Eagle file.
Both have them as D1-D7.
So no idea which goes where, plus there seems to be another one not listed.

Is there a proper BOM for this?
I mistakenly went off the build doc, which assumes you have the kit, so it doesn't have all the details/specs for the parts.

THANKS!!!
Luap
I mostly liked my v1 Crush Delay, but it does have a couple of issues that im hoping this version solves.

1, The delay times were all bunched up in the first 3rd or so of the knobs travel. I thought maybe I had the wrong kind of pot in the kit. Like a linear instead of log or something like that, but reading the description for this v2 i see "exponential converter for Delay time control" I take it that fixes the above mentioned gremlin?

2, It would distort with even a warm input, never mind a hot input. So I had to keep the input level pretty low. The v2 appears to address that also?

But damn, still an odd 11hp! lol

Still, I got some great sounds out of the v1, so im tempted to check out the improved v2.

btw, Due to a calibration calamity on my part, I got around 8 seconds of delay time out of my V1. But of course by that point, it just sounds like the most ridiculous amount of lofi glitching that doesn't even nearly resemble the input signal! hihi
Befacosynth
thetwlo wrote:
Actually, I installed the Eagle viewer, and it looks like my PCB, but doesn't match the v2.4 build doc. So I'm very confused.


Please contact us on befacosynth@gmail.com and send a picture of the boards you got.
thetwlo wrote:

The pic(previous post) of the diodes from the build guide are not on my PCB or labelled as the guide states in the Eagle file.
Both have them as D1-D7.
So no idea which goes where, plus there seems to be another one not listed.


Downlad updated docu from our site.

thetwlo wrote:

Is there a proper BOM for this?


you can easily generate it with eagle. ULP -> bom -> Save
Befacosynth
Luap wrote:
I mostly liked my v1 Crush Delay, but it does have a couple of issues that im hoping this version solves.

1, The delay times were all bunched up in the first 3rd or so of the knobs travel. I thought maybe I had the wrong kind of pot in the kit. Like a linear instead of log or something like that, but reading the description for this v2 i see "exponential converter very frustrating for Delay time control" I take it that fixes the above mentioned gremlin?


PT2399 has an exponential response, that is why v1 behaved like that. This version has an exp. converter on the CV control that makes the response more natural.
Clean delay times are kind of 1/3 of pot. Then untill 1/2 of it or so it will have dirty longer delay times. And the rest is pure glitch and digital noise generation.
In fact v2 is more focused to the noise generation that delay itself smile

Luap wrote:

2, It would distort with even a warm input, never mind a hot input. So I had to keep the input level pretty low. The v2 appears to address that also?


It does indeed. Levels have been carefully tweaked and added a VCA on each input.

Luap wrote:

But damn, still an odd 11hp! lol


The solution for odd HPs is getting another odd module wink
thetwlo
Befacosynth wrote:

thetwlo wrote:

Is there a proper BOM for this?


you can easily generate it with eagle. ULP -> bom -> Save


That doesn't appear to be correct or complete.

It doesn't seem specify the header, the build guide just shows a two row header the same length as the power header, and says to "Place and solder the Male Pin Header at silkscreen side,"
I did that(soldered at the silkscreen side) but from the pictures it seems that's on the wrong side of the board, and a really long header is required, very different than what is shown.

Really confused how the trimmers would be accessible if built this way as well? --there would be no way to adjust them.

Can't see where the BOM from Eagle specifies the that spacer size either.


Not sure what to do now.
thanks.
Befacosynth
Keep in mind that the assembly instructions are made for our kits. So in your case you have to use eagle and all your DIY experience to finish the build.

thetwlo wrote:

I did that(soldered at the silkscreen side) but from the pictures it seems that's on the wrong side of the board, and a really long header is required, very different than what is shown.

Use long pin headers.

thetwlo wrote:

Really confused how the trimmers would be accessible if built this way as well? --there would be no way to adjust them.

Use horizontal ones.


thetwlo wrote:

Not sure what to do now.


Do not give up. Extreme DIY is hard but rewarding in the end.
thetwlo
I'm confused as to why there isn't proper BOM?

I've never run into that.

What size headers? spacers?

Do you not provide BOM's for any of your builds?
The type of headers, trim pots is pretty important omission.

It's not ideal to keep having to place another order parts each time you come across another part that was incorrect or missing from the BOM.
Nice to have all the correct parts before starting a build, but that isn't possible here.
Befacosynth
Unfortunately there are no BOMs for the PCBs.
It´s clearly an error from our side assuming that an egle file should be fine.
Please lets follow up this matter via mail as this has became rather a customer support problem than a technical issue. befacosynth@gmail.com
GryphonP3
I built this without any special BOM from just PCBs and panel and ran into no problems like this.. I just used regular 2.54mm headers from Tayda. Are you using electrolytics that are too tall for the boards to sandwich together?

Whenever I do builds like this (or even stuff like the serge 108 gain cells) I use side-turn trimmers. They stand up and can be turned from the side, rather than from directly above.
thetwlo
GryphonP3 wrote:
I built this without any special BOM from just PCBs and panel and ran into no problems like this.. I just used regular 2.54mm headers from Tayda. Are you using electrolytics that are too tall for the boards to sandwich together?

Whenever I do builds like this (or even stuff like the serge 108 gain cells) I use side-turn trimmers. They stand up and can be turned from the side, rather than from directly above.


Thanks! good tips!

Yes, I think the electros are too tall(close, might be able to make it work), didn't try it that way, from the directions("solder header at silkscreen side") I thought it went the other way which seem to make sense as the trim pots would be exposed, then I looked at the pic and saw how they were sandwiched with the parts inside. d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!

I assume there's no reason not to just solder the trimpots on the back anyway?

Anyway, thanks! Shouldn't be a problem for Befaco Befaco, now that I'm aware of what they use/ how they're built.
Kirr
Can someone point me to the pots and switches compatible with this board? I'm building from PCB, version 2.4. Thanks!

EDIT: DOH. Found them. Nevermind.
DJMaytag
Would it be recommend to get the kit versus the PCB/panel + sourcing your own parts?
modularaddict
DJMaytag wrote:
Would it be recommend to get the kit versus the PCB/panel + sourcing your own parts?


Mitch -

Was good (finally!) meeting you the other day! There's really no unobtanium here - the only thing you really need to pay attention to with Befaco stuff is that the pot footprint isn't a standard Alpha (though with enough persuasion you might make it happen!), and their resistors are 1/8w, not 1/4w - smaller package.

We've got them either way!
DJMaytag
It was nice to finally meet you too!

I think the PCB labelling/mismatch, having to use Eagle files, and someone's electros being too tall to sandwich was enough to seal the deal to get the kit. I had previously noted you sell Befaco pots, so I knew that was part of the build & costs involved.

I got my ES-5 return sorted out, but not at Knobcon, so I'm gonna get this kit once I get my refund back for that.
deltasleep
I recently purchased this kit from Thonk. This was the most complicated build I did from that order - instructions are not quite up to the quality of the Music Thing modules I've built, but that's a really high standard. There were a couple places where the right component kind of had to be deduced by elimination - hmmm..... not exactly desirable.

But the resulting module works and looks great. The delay IS as crunchy as described, in a good way. My only real complaint is that the time knob seems to heavily favor CRUNCH- something like 80% of the range is unintelligble, evil grit. I guess there are other delays for people that don't want this! evil
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