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Q112, Q113, Q161, Q162 - interchangeable PCBs?
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Author Q112, Q113, Q161, Q162 - interchangeable PCBs?
Rex Coil 7
EDIT: 04/22/2018 - The Q112 is no longer fully populated and cannot be used in the manner I describe in this thread ... pictures posted in this thread in posts dated April 22nd and later .... just so you know! End Edit.

***********************************************************


If I count all of those up in my system I have seven mixers. I'm in the midst of deciding on a synth repanel project. All of those (listed) Dot Com modules have the same PCBs, but I'm not sure if they're popped with the same components.

On the presumption that they are interchangeable, I'll probably repurpose their innards into more suited layouts for what I'm doing. Sortof looking at them as parts and raw subassemblies to be used as a project. That said, I have seven 8 channel/2 buss mixer circuits at my disposal.

Er .... Or don't I?

Thank you.
stephenmendes
They use identical components so the only thing you have to do is:

ONE.... make sure that ALL components are inserted on the board for the functionality that you need.

TWO.... add/remove front panel components (pots, switches or jacks) to suit your intended use.

THREE.... In the case of modules that require calibration perform the appropriate calibration procedure for your intended use.

for example:

Q112/Q113 NO CALIBRATION

Q161/Q162 NO CALIBRATION

Q111/Q116 DIFFERENT CALIBRATION PROCEDURE DEPENDING ON USE
Rex Coil 7
stephenmendes wrote:
They use identical components so the only thing you have to do is:

ONE.... make sure that ALL components are inserted on the board for the functionality that you need.

TWO.... add/remove front panel components (pots, switches or jacks) to suit your intended use.

THREE.... In the case of modules that require calibration perform the appropriate calibration procedure for your intended use.

for example:

Q112/Q113 NO CALIBRATION

Q161/Q162 NO CALIBRATION

Q111/Q116 DIFFERENT CALIBRATION PROCEDURE DEPENDING ON USE
I figured as much ... However I did NOT know about checking the calibration first. Thanks for the tip.

And on the Q111 - Q116 deal ... I suspected they could be ~cross pollinated~ and used as one or the other (or sortof ~both). I even did a thread about that question not long ago .....

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=141517&highlight=

Any insights to add?
stephenmendes
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
Any insights to add?


Not at this time... I read your prescribed thread and I would have thought more "wigglers" would have jumped on board that one.

On a different thread of yours.... I enjoyed the photos of your "fire hazard"

Reminds me of my personal workshop of 30 years ago.... I am Part-Time lecturer in Electronics at local university (UWI) campus these days.... and all bread-boarding and experimental projects are done at UWI Labs mostly by my students under my supervision.

I live in a much smaller house than formerly and I do not even have a Lab at home any more.

I find I have less time these days...... and prefer to spend my few hours writing, composing or actually playing (and recording) music...... rather than drilling metal.... soldering..... building boards or cabinets...... done that for most of my working life...... and now I am semi-retired I am (trying) to make music my top priority.

http://sutros.com/smendes

https://www.youtube.com/user/stephenmendes1
Rex Coil 7
stephenmendes wrote:
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
Any insights to add?


Not at this time... I read your prescribed thread and I would have thought more "wigglers" would have jumped on board that one.

On a different thread of yours.... I enjoyed the photos of your "fire hazard"

Reminds me of my personal workshop of 30 years ago.... I am Part-Time lecturer in Electronics at local university (UWI) campus these days.... and all bread-boarding and experimental projects are done at UWI Labs mostly by my students under my supervision.

I live in a much smaller house than formerly and I do not even have a Lab at home any more.

I find I have less time these days...... and prefer to spend my few hours writing, composing or actually playing (and recording) music...... rather than drilling metal.... soldering..... building boards or cabinets...... done that for most of my working life...... and now I am semi-retired I am (trying) to make music my top priority.

http://sutros.com/smendes

https://www.youtube.com/user/stephenmendes1
Wow ... all I can conjure up to say to you is .... "Good for you!!!" .. and being sincere in the sentiment while saying so! I'm 55 currently, and I understand what you mean with moving away from creating tangible devices and moving toward expressing the soul. Time and age begin to dictate that as a priority .... done building the anthill ... time to express the lessons I've learned and hope others will learn from my successes, failures, and getting back up after falling flat on my face.

Comes a time one begins tiring of the "Earn, Spend" montra and priorities of legacy begin taking hold. I'm pleased to hear of your forward momentum. Carry on, good sir. Carry on, indeed.

As you were.

smile

(and BTW ... I too am still kinda surprised that more replies weren't generated on that Q111-Q116 thread ..... it is what it is, I suppose!).

Thanks for the reply. smile
coyoteous
OK, I have a Q112 front panel on the way for a few dollars as part of a BST package deal.

Does the Q112 PCB have all the components for two mixers?

If not, is it easily populated?

I have a notion buying the module and using this front panel as an expander... also have most of a synthesizers.com spare parts kit that hopefully might provide some or all of the necessary pots and jacks.

Anybody want to sell one from upgrading to a boutique module or otherwise (none currently for sale on MW, EB or FB that I could find)?

If not, I might have to breakdown and buy a new module for the first time in over a decade.

Thanks!
Rex Coil 7
coyoteous wrote:
OK, I have a Q112 front panel on the way for a few dollars as part of a BST package deal.

Does the Q112 PCB have all the components for two mixers?

If not, is it easily populated?

I have a notion buying the module and using this front panel as an expander... also have most of a synthesizers.com spare parts kit that hopefully might provide some or all of the necessary pots and jacks.

Anybody want to sell one from upgrading to a boutique module or otherwise (none currently for sale on MW, EB or FB that I could find)?

If not, I might have to breakdown and buy a new module for the first time in over a decade.

Thanks!
All of the PCBs of all of the Dot Com mixers are populated with the same components. You can literally remove the PCB from a Q113 and install that same PCB in a Q161 (or Q112, or ... ) and connect it to the controls via the instructions in the corresponding Datasheet and the module will perform precisely as a brandly newly "factory" module.

With zero soldering.

smile

(I have a few unused Q112 panels, and I may end up with Q161 and Q162 empty panels as well. I'll also have a Q113 empty panel available soon.)
coyoteous
Thanks Rex Coil 7!

Epic serendipity... bought a secondhand synthdotcom maintainence kit for less than half-price (less a couple knobs) and now a $5 112 panel, some cables and a sick TSS-1 from the same mighty wiggler.

I'll everything I need except jack nuts/washers for a plug and play passive Q112 expander... just need a Q112 now (anyone?).
coyoteous
Well, hooty-ha!

Bought a 112 from a fellow MUggler at a good price, while it was enroute I made up my expansion panel as mentioned in the previous post, hooked her up upon arrival and it works like a charm!

I'll probably bring out the other outputs in some manner in the future.

Didn't even really need it/them, but I just couldn't pass up this unusual 113 equivalent for about half the price of a new one... plus, you can always use more mixers and it's cool to have brought the dormant side to life.
Rex Coil 7
coyoteous wrote:
Well, hooty-ha!

Bought a 112 from a fellow MUggler at a good price, while it was enroute I made up my expansion panel as mentioned in the previous post, hooked her up upon arrival and it works like a charm!

I'll probably bring out the other outputs in some manner in the future.

Didn't even really need it/them, but I just couldn't pass up this unusual 113 equivalent for about half the price of a new one... plus, you can always use more mixers and it's cool to have brought the dormant side to life.


SlayerBadger!

It's all good. cool
Rex Coil 7
Update on this, a correction is now required.

In December of 2017 (two months ago?) I bought a brand new Q112 with the intention of tearing it down to the PCB and using the two busses in a manner that I've kindof ~standardized~ (if you will) throughout my entire system. I use the mixer as a 4 channel mixer, two signals on each bus (bus "A" and bus "B"). I then use the third channel of each bus as a feedback loop to create high gain signals from various sources. Anyone that has followed my project synth thread has been exposed to that usage ad nauseam by now.

Ok ...so all well and good, I orders the Q112, I pays the munnies, and the module is shipped from Synthesizers.Com. When I rec'd the new Q112 I was very disappointed to learn that Dot Com no longer fully populates the Q112 so that the Q112 and the Q113, Q161, Q162 all share the same capabilities. The Q112 only has half of the components on the PCB now, even though the circuit board itself is still the same as the Q113/Q161/Q162, and the unused through holes are filled with solder.

That said, the Q112 is no longer "the same" as the Q113/Q161/Q162 since only one bus is available. I may ask Roger if I can return the new Q112 (I never just ~return~ a module to them, I always ... ALWAYS ... trade it in for "store credit" and then place an order so that I end up owing Roger money). I need two Q123s and another Q105 so there's plenty of things I need to buy from them on my next order anyhow.

I bought the new Q112 for a specific purpose, but since they're only populating half of the board now that particular module will not serve my needs any longer. The 2 Bus+feedback trick that I do throughout my synth requires the mixer PCB to be fully populated so that I have access to both busses.

I'm not complaining or talking shyte about Synthesizers.Com ... I'm simply making a correction to my initial assertions about the Q112/Q113/Q161/Q162 having the exact same PCBs and circuitry/components. It's no longer a true statement.

I ~get it~ ... I mean why fully populate a PCB that will only use half of the components in a particular module? Depending on the annual sales figures in their spreadsheets, I can easily imagine a significant savings in both parts and hourly wages (or piecemeal wages, depending on how the Dot Com employees are paid) by not populating the entire board on the Q112.

So ... correction made.

..... now ... what to do with a completely unused (never used or even mounted in a synth cab) brand new Q112? ....


thumbs up
bwhittington
Good to know about the Q112. Not that I've been abusing those circuits lately, but it had been a fun part of Dotcom DIY in the past.
coyoteous
Fun trip down memory lane... mighty bwhittington actually sold me the 112 back then (at a good price, too).

It and the sidecar I made up are still ticking in my 20-some space synthesizers.com 'classic' system (no 'a' or '++').
Rex Coil 7
coyoteous wrote:
Fun trip down memory lane... mighty bwhittington actually sold me the 112 back then (at a good price, too).

It and the sidecar I made up are still ticking in my 20-some space synthesizers.com 'classic' system (no 'a' or '++').
Ha! Same here! I bought a few stripped Dot Com panels and a Q112 from him as well ... this goes back a few years.
coyoteous
Rex Coil 7: nice... well, I snagged an osc. mixer (161?) on Reverb for $55 shipped last night.

Figure I'll have to liberate the extra channels... from the picture of the back I saw it was fully populated (then surmised it would have to be to get four channels with pots: three on one side and one on the other... leaving two unused without pots and two with, plus additional outputs).
Rex Coil 7
coyoteous wrote:
Rex Coil 7: nice... well, I snagged an osc. mixer (161?) on Reverb for $55 shipped last night.

Figure I'll have to liberate the extra channels... from the picture of the back I saw it was fully populated (then surmised it would have to be to get four channels with pots: three on one side and one on the other... leaving two unused without pots and two with, plus additional outputs).
Yup, you hit it right on the head. Great buy, btw! That's about the best I ever did myself, in fact I think the best deal I ever got on one of the mixers was about $65 shipped (for a Q112 with a test date of 2002!). Good thing you were on the ball and checked out a picture of the back prior to purchasing. Some of the really old ones (with tan colored PCBs) aren't fully populated, and as we now know the latest ones aren't either.

The Q161 and Q162 use 3 channels from one bus, and one channel from the other bus, then the MAIN output is used. So just set it up just like the Q113 is to get access to all 6 adjustable channels (with 2 non-adjustable channels left over). You may have noticed in the Datasheet that there are TWO Main outs on the PCB. One is marked "AC" and the other is marked "DC". Use the one that fits your needs. I have NO idea what (exactly) the difference is between the two, all I do know is the stock Q113 uses the AC output for the MAIN out. So I'm guessing the AC output works for either audio or control signals, since that's the way Roger markets the Q112 and the Q113. Again, just guessing there.

Should you get the opportunity, try out the feedback setup that I use. It doesn't really ~distort~ things so much as bring out different harmonics, depending on how LOUD you have any of the channels on the bus you're feeding back. The channels seem to interact with one another, depending on their individual gain levels, as well as how much bus feedback you apply. I'd imagine waveforms that you've piped in to any of the given channels matters as well.

If you really want to trick it out, put an On/Off toggle between the input jack and the AMP connector for the input jack. Then you have a sortof Minimoog type setup where you can leave each channel set to a predetermined level but you can turn each channel on and off with the toggle. That's exactly what I did with this abomination .....



The red knobs are the feedback amounts for each bus. There's 2 adjustable channels per bus, and an on/off toggle per channel. The 2 remaining non adjustable channels are still accessible via the 2 outer most 1/4" jacks. The center jack is the MAIN OUT, and the 2 jacks that straddle the center jack are the Bus Outs (A and B). I did not use switching jacks for the 2 bus outputs, which are used for the per-bus feedback loops. So I can still use those 2 bus outs as .. well .. outs!

I got started on wiring that thing up, but I haven't felt my best the last week. So I'll get back to it (hopefully) in a day or so. My wife's dad passed away last week so we're dealing with going out of town for services and family coming in, funeral, and everything that goes along with a lost family member. I've been more than a little grumpy lately here in-forum due to lack of sleep and mourning over not ever being able to see my dear friend again. We all go through this, it's just my wife's/my turn to do so.

Anyhow, enough "poor me" ....

You can do the feedback trick with just a short patch cable if you want to test it. Just patch from one of the Bus Outs back in to one of that bus's input channels (one of the adjustable ones), then use the channel's attenuator to adjust the feedback amount. Then use the MAIN OUT to get sound out of it. Simple stuff.
Rex Coil 7
I realized I had not posted a picture of the half-populated Q112. I'm in the midst of updating my project synth, was about to post an image of the newest Q112 I have as part of the update when I figured out that I'd never posted it in this thread. It's relevant .... so it seems a good idea. Here's the module and the test date. Below them are pics of how they used to be made.









Yuh canna do this withem if they donna have all the gizzerds, cap'n Kehrk ......



Ok .... just wanted to tie up this loose end. cool
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